I was wondering, if you would consider two music genres opposites, what would they be?
I would consider smooth jazz and country to be polar opposites. Smooth jazz is a genre that is pink and smooth, while country is a genre that is brown and honky-tonky.
Progressive rock and punk rock, if only because one of the reasons for the musical emergence of the punk movement was rebelling against the perceived excesses of prog rock.
Kenny G and Gwar.
folk music / ambient music
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 20, 2023, 03:41:08 PM
Progressive rock and punk rock, if only because one of the reasons for the musical emergence of the punk movement was rebelling against the perceived excesses of prog rock.
When bands like Cardiacs manage to do well mixing both, it's a notable thing
Jam and pop. In pop every note is rehearsed and fits in a specific place; (good) jamming is about the improvisation resulting from communication between the musicians.
Rap/hip-hop and everything else.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2023, 11:50:08 AM
Rap/hip-hop and everything else.
Actually... How about...
rap / instrumental music
Hard core rap and Muzak (remember that?)
Mike
Quote from: kphoger on September 21, 2023, 12:19:12 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2023, 11:50:08 AM
Rap/hip-hop and everything else.
Actually... How about...
rap / instrumental music
You win the thread!
Humorist Dave Barry's description of rap: "A bunch of angry men shouting, possibly because the person who was supposed to provide them with a melody never showed up."
For me, I have this pair in mind:
- Classic music vs Electro music
Rock & roll and Top-40:
Rock & roll uses real instruments (guitars, drums, pianos, horns, etc.), and Top-40 uses a bunch of fake sounds coming from a keyboard synthesizer.
Gospel and hip-hop.
Quote from: Henry on September 21, 2023, 10:05:46 PM
Rock & roll and Top-40:
Rock & roll uses real instruments (guitars, drums, pianos, horns, etc.), and Top-40 uses a bunch of fake sounds coming from a keyboard synthesizer.
Why are the sounds "fake"? Are we unable to hear them? Do they not actually exist?
***
For opposites in both sound and intent, how about Baroque and Classical periods (i.e. Handel through Beethoven), much of which was written in service of institutions of authority (the church and the monarchy), and punk, much of which was written to tear down those same institutions.
Quote from: DTComposer on September 22, 2023, 11:57:54 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 21, 2023, 10:05:46 PM
Rock & roll and Top-40:
Rock & roll uses real instruments (guitars, drums, pianos, horns, etc.), and Top-40 uses a bunch of fake sounds coming from a keyboard synthesizer.
Why are the sounds "fake"? Are we unable to hear them? Do they not actually exist?
To expand on that... How is a keyboard synthesizer any more "fake" than an electric guitar running through effects pedals?
Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2023, 11:50:08 AM
Rap/hip-hop and everything else.
I would argue that rap and country are very similar, at least in concept. Both started out as an art form for working class expression but the mainstream form of each became so commercialized that it's unrecognizable today.
Rock and Rock in Opposition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_in_Opposition) should count
Quote from: MikieTimT on September 22, 2023, 08:58:46 AM
Gospel and hip-hop.
A lot of modern rap has a strong gospel influence. Hip hop is an incredibly diverse genre. and DJs and producers borrow from all different kinds of music.
QuoteHumorist Dave Barry's description of rap: "A bunch of angry men shouting, possibly because the person who was supposed to provide them with a melody never showed up."
Rock & roll uses real instruments (guitars, drums, pianos, horns, etc.), and Top-40 uses a bunch of fake sounds coming from a keyboard synthesizer.
[/quote]
What in the fuck is that supposed to mean? There's no such thing as a "fake" or "real" sound. I don't know if you're attempting to distinguish between analog sounds and digital sounds, but a lot of early keyboards like the Moog synthesizers were analog. A guitar chord is no more valid than a beep you created in Audacity and modified and used in a song.
Your head is about to explode, but there are guitar synths. Judas Priest infamously used guitar synths on the
Turbo album. I played one about 30 years ago, and it was pretty cool. One of the presets was a drumkit, and each string was a different drum. It would have taken a lot of energy into playing a beat with a guitar, but it could be done.
Quote from: bugo on October 31, 2023, 10:20:14 PM
I played one about 30 years ago, and it was pretty cool. One of the presets was a drumkit, and each string was a different drum. It would have taken a lot of energy into playing a beat with a guitar, but it could be done.
Then there's Roy Wooten's "SynthAxe Drumitar".
(https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/attachments/guitar-amps-gizmos/47683d1510779919-versatile-guitar-jazz-fusion-fm-jpg)
Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2023, 11:50:08 AM
Rap/hip-hop and everything else.
I would say it's most opposite of country.
Quote from: kphoger on September 21, 2023, 12:19:12 PM
rap / instrumental music
Quote from: thspfc on November 01, 2023, 10:53:32 AM
I would say it's most opposite of country.
I chose instrumental music because rap is chiefly defined by its lyrics. The concept of rap with no lyrics breaks my brain.
Quote from: bugo on October 31, 2023, 10:20:14 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on September 22, 2023, 08:58:46 AM
Gospel and hip-hop.
A lot of modern rap has a strong gospel influence. Hip hop is an incredibly diverse genre. and DJs and producers borrow from all different kinds of music.
QuoteHumorist Dave Barry's description of rap: "A bunch of angry men shouting, possibly because the person who was supposed to provide them with a melody never showed up."
QuoteRock & roll uses real instruments (guitars, drums, pianos, horns, etc.), and Top-40 uses a bunch of fake sounds coming from a keyboard synthesizer.
What in the fuck is that supposed to mean? There's no such thing as a "fake" or "real" sound. I don't know if you're attempting to distinguish between analog sounds and digital sounds, but a lot of early keyboards like the Moog synthesizers were analog. A guitar chord is no more valid than a beep you created in Audacity and modified and used in a song.
Your head is about to explode, but there are guitar synths. Judas Priest infamously used guitar synths on the Turbo album. I played one about 30 years ago, and it was pretty cool. One of the presets was a drumkit, and each string was a different drum. It would have taken a lot of energy into playing a beat with a guitar, but it could be done.
While Autotune has been around for a while, there has been a recent trend of beats snapped to a grid, or a drum machine that doesn't obviously sound like a drum machine at first. "Real" music, that is music descended from blues, is looser and not always on the beat, so modern processed music seems too antiseptic. Or at least that's my excuse for not keeping up with new genres.
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on November 01, 2023, 11:02:14 AM
While Autotune has been around for a while, there has been a recent trend of beats snapped to a grid, or a drum machine that doesn't obviously sound like a drum machine at first. "Real" music, that is music descended from blues, is looser and not always on the beat, so modern processed music seems too antiseptic. Or at least that's my excuse for not keeping up with new genres.
If a beat held strictly to tempo is what disqualifies music as "real music", then you just disqualified Mozart. While rubato
melody was normal during his time, he insisted that the
underlying accompaniment (i.e., the beat) be kept to a very strict tempo. I believe even Chopin, famous for his rubato, may have similarly kept a strict beat while allowing the melody a great deal of liberty—even between right hand and left hand in the same piano piece.
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on November 01, 2023, 11:02:14 AM
Quote from: bugo on October 31, 2023, 10:20:14 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on September 22, 2023, 08:58:46 AM
Gospel and hip-hop.
A lot of modern rap has a strong gospel influence. Hip hop is an incredibly diverse genre. and DJs and producers borrow from all different kinds of music.
QuoteHumorist Dave Barry's description of rap: "A bunch of angry men shouting, possibly because the person who was supposed to provide them with a melody never showed up."
QuoteRock & roll uses real instruments (guitars, drums, pianos, horns, etc.), and Top-40 uses a bunch of fake sounds coming from a keyboard synthesizer.
What in the fuck is that supposed to mean? There's no such thing as a "fake" or "real" sound. I don't know if you're attempting to distinguish between analog sounds and digital sounds, but a lot of early keyboards like the Moog synthesizers were analog. A guitar chord is no more valid than a beep you created in Audacity and modified and used in a song.
Your head is about to explode, but there are guitar synths. Judas Priest infamously used guitar synths on the Turbo album. I played one about 30 years ago, and it was pretty cool. One of the presets was a drumkit, and each string was a different drum. It would have taken a lot of energy into playing a beat with a guitar, but it could be done.
While Autotune has been around for a while, there has been a recent trend of beats snapped to a grid, or a drum machine that doesn't obviously sound like a drum machine at first. "Real" music, that is music descended from blues, is looser and not always on the beat, so modern processed music seems too antiseptic. Or at least that's my excuse for not keeping up with new genres.
Electronically composed music (I assume that's what you mean by "beats snapped to a grid") isn't a new thing, DAW software have been very widely used for music production since the early 90s. So if you consider that to be "fake", it's been around for over 30 years now, just as long as autotune has.
Saying that "real music" is music that came after blues doesn't make much sense to me either. Was all music before blues fake as well? And besides that, when listening to non-electronic/"real" music, I've never noticed anything being off-beat unless the person playing the instrument messed up, which is very rare in an officially released recording.
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on November 01, 2023, 11:02:14 AM
While Autotune has been around for a while, there has been a recent trend of beats snapped to a grid, or a drum machine that doesn't obviously sound like a drum machine at first. "Real" music, that is music descended from blues, is looser and not always on the beat, so modern processed music seems too antiseptic. Or at least that's my excuse for not keeping up with new genres.
Recent? They've been using DAWs since the 1980s, and click tracks even further back. Rick Beato has talked about this on his channel. As for the only authentic music being blues, that's total nonsense. Classical music is not based on blues. A lot of rock bands have purged any traces of blues out of their sound. I don't completely disagree with you about programmed drums, but they have a time and a place and should not be discarded just because you feel that they are "fake". A processed guitar tone is "fake". Anything played on a synthesizer is "fake". A lot of bands use digital amp and speaker modelling instead of lugging heavy Marshall stacks around with them, because it is so much easier to deal with.
Quote from: bm7 on November 01, 2023, 11:19:22 AM
So if you consider that to be "fake", it's been around for over 30 years now, just as long as autotune has.
Check the YouTube comments for any song between 1960 and 1990 and you'll get a lot of comments saying how much better the song of the video you're watching is compared to new music.
Quote from: 1 on November 01, 2023, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: bm7 on November 01, 2023, 11:19:22 AM
So if you consider that to be "fake", it's been around for over 30 years now, just as long as autotune has.
Check the YouTube comments for any song between 1960 and 1990 and you'll get a lot of comments saying how much better the song of the video you're watching is compared to new music.
Because it is. ;-) Doesn't have necessarily anything to do with synthetic voices or tones.
Quote from: bm7 on November 01, 2023, 11:19:22 AM
Saying that "real music" is music that came after blues doesn't make much sense to me either. Was all music before blues fake as well? And besides that, when listening to non-electronic/"real" music, I've never noticed anything being off-beat unless the person playing the instrument messed up, which is very rare in an officially released recording.
I think we should listen to the guy whose username is a chord :-)
Quote from: kurumi on November 01, 2023, 11:49:50 AM
Quote from: bm7 on November 01, 2023, 11:19:22 AM
Saying that "real music" is music that came after blues doesn't make much sense to me either. Was all music before blues fake as well? And besides that, when listening to non-electronic/"real" music, I've never noticed anything being off-beat unless the person playing the instrument messed up, which is very rare in an officially released recording.
I think we should listen to the guy whose username is a chord :-)
Nah. I don't trust someone who doesn't write the chord name with a capital B.
My 7th BM...
Quote from: kphoger on November 01, 2023, 12:03:42 PM
Quote from: kurumi on November 01, 2023, 11:49:50 AM
Quote from: bm7 on November 01, 2023, 11:19:22 AM
Saying that "real music" is music that came after blues doesn't make much sense to me either. Was all music before blues fake as well? And besides that, when listening to non-electronic/"real" music, I've never noticed anything being off-beat unless the person playing the instrument messed up, which is very rare in an officially released recording.
I think we should listen to the guy whose username is a chord :-)
Nah. I don't trust someone who doesn't write the chord name with a capital B.
Considering I know nothing about music theory, any username similarity is entirely coincidental.
Quote from: Rothman on November 01, 2023, 12:05:38 PM
My 7th BM...
I'd prefer the chord reference over this, though...
Wake up honey, new arguments between people trying to pass their subjective music preferences off as absolute facts just dropped!
This time with the bonus of the classic "that's not real music!" debate.
Quote from: 1 on November 01, 2023, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: bm7 on November 01, 2023, 11:19:22 AM
So if you consider that to be "fake", it's been around for over 30 years now, just as long as autotune has.
Check the YouTube comments for any song between 1960 and 1990 and you'll get a lot of comments saying how much better the song of the video you're watching is compared to new music.
That's because they are narrow-minded and refuse to give any music recorded after they graduated high school. A lot of boomers never gave gen X music a chance. If you want to see vitriol, read a guitar magazine from late 1991 to 1996 or so. They HATED alternative music with a passion. Those pesky Xers like Kurt Cobain pushed them off to the side of the stage, and they weren't used to that, so they threw a hissy fit and wrote nasty letters to the editor. And a Youtube comment section is completely irrelevant.
I think part of the problem is that the people who say that "all new music is bad" don't make attempts to find new music that they do like. I don't like modern pop, or country, or rap, yet almost all the music I listen to is less than 20 years old. You just need to look places other than FM radio.
Quote from: bm7 on November 01, 2023, 01:04:41 PM
I think part of the problem is that the people who say that "all new music is bad" don't make attempts to find new music that they do like. I don't like modern pop, or country, or rap, yet almost all the music I listen to is less than 20 years old. You just need to look places other than FM radio.
I can find multiple new bands I like in certain genres. I will die on a hill saying that 99% of new, remotely popular rap is terrible compared to the 90's and 00's.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 01, 2023, 01:07:13 PM
I can find multiple new bands I like in certain genres. I will die on a hill saying that 99% of new, remotely popular rap is terrible compared to the 90's and 00's.
Yeah, I can find bands I like nowadays But most of them that I like tend to evoke a musical aesthetic from past decades, just with a fresh spin on it.
Quote from: thspfc on November 01, 2023, 10:53:32 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2023, 11:50:08 AM
Rap/hip-hop and everything else.
I would say it's most opposite of country.
Old Town Road.
It's hard to come up with opposites in genre when it comes to music.
Quote from: 1 on November 01, 2023, 11:22:14 AM
Quote from: bm7 on November 01, 2023, 11:19:22 AM
So if you consider that to be "fake", it's been around for over 30 years now, just as long as autotune has.
Check the YouTube comments for any song between 1960 and 1990 and you'll get a lot of comments saying how much better the song of the video you're watching is compared to new music.
Come on, don't listen to out of touch boomers in YouTube comments. They might be right, but they're also YouTube commenters.
Every time I have put out a call for a new band or music that's close to what I like, someone invariably suggests Greta Van Fleet.
If that's the best "next coming of Rush/Led Zeppelin/etc." you can come up with, we're doomed.
Greta Van Fleet is considered a joke by most music fans and critics because they are a Led Zeppelin clone. And Led Zeppelin stole a lot of their songs from old blues songs, so they're a copy of a copy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4frJxfrj_88). A lot of boomers love them because they think they sound just like Zeppelin, but they're not as popular among Xers and millennials. I personally don't understand that. I don't like bands that don't have an original sound. If I tell somebody I like a certain band and they say "If you like them, you'll love this other band. They sound just like them!" then I probably won't like them. If I want to listen to Judas Priest, I'll listen to Judas Priest, and not some band who ripped off their style.
Quote from: bugo on November 02, 2023, 03:29:14 PM
Greta Van Fleet is considered a joke by most music fans and critics because they are a Led Zeppelin clone. And Led Zeppelin stole a lot of their songs from old blues songs, so they're a copy of a copy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4frJxfrj_88). A lot of boomers love them because they think they sound just like Zeppelin, but they're not as popular among Xers and millennials. I personally don't understand that. I don't like bands that don't have an original sound. If I tell somebody I like a certain band and they say "If you like them, you'll love this other band. They sound just like them!" then I probably won't like them. If I want to listen to Judas Priest, I'll listen to Judas Priest, and not some band who ripped off their style.
I don't regard Greta Van Fleet as a clone of Zep. Other than the singer having a high-pitched voice that could conceivably be said to sound a little like Plant's in his youth, I don't get the resemblance to Zep's music at all.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 02, 2023, 03:13:11 PM
Every time I have put out a call for a new band or music that's close to what I like, someone invariably suggests Greta Van Fleet.
If that's the best "next coming of Rush/Led Zeppelin/etc." you can come up with, we're doomed.
Trying to think what I'd pick for closest to.... maybe Muse?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 03, 2023, 02:27:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 02, 2023, 03:13:11 PM
Every time I have put out a call for a new band or music that's close to what I like, someone invariably suggests Greta Van Fleet.
If that's the best "next coming of Rush/Led Zeppelin/etc." you can come up with, we're doomed.
Trying to think what I'd pick for closest to.... maybe Muse?
Approachable proggy metal, maybe a little stoner, try Elder or Moon Tooth (below)
If you're OK with harsh vocals, djent, blast beats, math rock in your metal, then there's more to choose from (Periphery, Leprous, Haken, Between the Buried and Me, etc.)
Elder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Yfbj5v9QA
Moon Tooth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNkXUcW835M
I really like this Periphery song: