Anybody got a list of mispronunciations that really get under your skin?
For me, it's fentanyl. The final syllable is pronounced "nil," not "nall." Yet most everyone says "fentanall" and not "fentanil."
"Govur-mint" and "env-eye-ur-mint" (ignoring the midword "n" in both cases–"government" and "environment") are two I hear fairly often.
"Nucular" is another.
"Artic" and "Antartic"/"Antartica" are ones I hear less often.
moot, not mute
As someone whose native language is French, where do I begin?
Lie-berry
"Pitcher" instead of "picture" and "punkin" instead of "pumpkin." (My wife does the latter and it drives me nuts.)
Quote from: DTComposer on September 22, 2023, 12:10:26 PM
Feb-rary
So do you say Feb-rue-airy or Feb-you-airy?
I recently heard a lady on BBC radio pronounce Wednesday as Wed'n-stay, and it caught me off guard. I'm not sure I've ever actually heard someone pronounce that first
d before–at least, someone who wasn't trying to be funny.
Also, people who read the Bible aloud in church but don't know the difference between prophecy and prophesy.
The "t" in often.
Nobody pronounces the "t" in listen or hasten - why in often?
Quote from: GaryV on September 22, 2023, 12:26:18 PM
The "t" in often.
Nobody pronounces the "t" in listen or hasten - why in often?
Well, it's a longer version of the word "oft". And everybody pronounces the
t in "oft". :meh:
(Note that the other words in your list have similar stories, so... whatever.)
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 12:50:44 PM
Quote from: GaryV on September 22, 2023, 12:26:18 PM
The "t" in often.
Nobody pronounces the "t" in listen or hasten - why in often?
Well, it's a longer version of the word "oft". And everybody pronounces the t in "oft". :meh:
On the other hand, hasten is the longer version of haste. "Listen" has a different etymology than the other words. Here's an article that gives a little more background:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/correct-pronunciation-of-often#:~:text=Silent%20Medial%20T%27s&text=Listen%20is%20a%20bit%20different,%5Cn%5C%20was%20not%20pronounced.
I do pronounce the t in often, and wasn't sure how I picked that up until the article made me realize it's from singing that pronunciation.
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on September 22, 2023, 12:10:26 PM
Feb-rary
So do you say Feb-rue-airy or Feb-you-airy?
I'm in the Feb-rue-airy camp.
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 12:15:40 PM
Also, people who read the Bible aloud in church but don't know the difference between prophecy and prophesy.
Drifting into "minor things that bother me," but most readers get their readings at least a week before their scheduled day, and the struggling on names and places is baffling - all the resources are out there, in person and online.
There are a few hyperforeignisms of Spanish words that grate on my ears:
when someone says cart-ah-hane-yah for Cartagena, as if the eighth letter were ñ instead of n
when someone says abba-nyeh-roe for habanero, as if the fifth letter were ñ instead of n
when someone says em-pahn-yadda for empanada, as if the fifth letter were ñ instead of n
Also, a hyperforeignism of the French word crêpe: pronouncing it as crape
Quote from: DTComposer on September 22, 2023, 01:03:18 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 12:15:40 PM
Also, people who read the Bible aloud in church but don't know the difference between prophecy and prophesy.
Drifting into "minor things that bother me," but most readers get their readings at least a week before their scheduled day, and the struggling on names and places is baffling - all the resources are out there, in person and online.
It isn't baffling to me at all. They simply don't read it over beforehand.
I was reminded of this one while eating lunch and I heard a Springsteen song in which he makes this mistake (one of my high school teachers used to do this as well):
Mispronouncing "cavalry" (traditionally refers to horse-mounted soldiers) as "Calvary" (the name of a hill on which a famous execution took place about 2000 years ago).
I find it easy to remember this one because many years ago, my late father served in the First Cavalry Division at Fort Hood, and that division was often referred to as the "First Cav." Someone who mispronounces the word would presumably call it the "First Cal" (which sounds like either a university or a retired shortstop).
Three bar trivia hosts have done it so far: pronouncing biopic to rhyme with myopic.
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 12:50:44 PM
Quote from: GaryV on September 22, 2023, 12:26:18 PM
The "t" in often.
Nobody pronounces the "t" in listen or hasten - why in often?
Well, it's a longer version of the word "oft". And everybody pronounces the t in "oft". :meh:
(Note that the other words in your list have similar stories, so... whatever.)
Granted, the original pronunciation - after the en was added to oft - was to pronounce the T. But that went away centuries ago, and like the other words, the accepted "correct" pronunciation was to not say the T. It's only in the last few decades that I started hearing it- never back when I was in school - and we actually learned phonics. (Look it up young'ns)
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 01:22:00 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on September 22, 2023, 01:03:18 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 12:15:40 PM
Also, people who read the Bible aloud in church but don't know the difference between prophecy and prophesy.
Drifting into "minor things that bother me," but most readers get their readings at least a week before their scheduled day, and the struggling on names and places is baffling - all the resources are out there, in person and online.
It isn't baffling to me at all. They simply don't read it over beforehand.
Agreed, but not reading it over
is the baffling part (to me) - you know you're going to be doing public speaking (usually because you volunteered to do it), you have plenty of notice and the appropriate materials, and you're reading something that is part of your (and the congregation's) faith and spirituality, which is ostensibly of importance to you. If you can't take the 10 minutes to read it over and note the difficult pronunciations, then don't sign up to read.
Depends on your church, I never received readings ahead of time.
Quote from: GaryV on September 22, 2023, 01:48:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 12:50:44 PM
Quote from: GaryV on September 22, 2023, 12:26:18 PM
The "t" in often.
Nobody pronounces the "t" in listen or hasten - why in often?
Well, it's a longer version of the word "oft". And everybody pronounces the t in "oft". :meh:
(Note that the other words in your list have similar stories, so... whatever.)
Granted, the original pronunciation - after the en was added to oft - was to pronounce the T. But that went away centuries ago, and like the other words, the accepted "correct" pronunciation was to not say the T. It's only in the last few decades that I started hearing it- never back when I was in school - and we actually learned phonics. (Look it up young'ns)
It would be more accurate, in my opinion, to say that the off-tin pronunciation never entirely fell away (the way haste-in did), and then after a few centuries it began to grow in popularity again. More of a waning and waxing.
karaoke: "carry-okie"
hara-kiri: "harry-carry"
Quote from: kurumi on September 22, 2023, 02:21:29 PM
hara-kiri: "harry-carry"
(https://i.imgur.com/xJx0j.jpg)
It doesn't really bother me to the point I go crazy or keep me up at nights or anything like that, but as someone who works in fast-food, people who can't pronounce gyro.
Quote from: Amaury on September 22, 2023, 02:35:43 PM
It doesn't really bother me to the point I go crazy or keep me up at nights or anything like that, but as someone who works in fast-food, people who can't pronounce gyro.
Isn't that most people?
Heck, I work with a Greek-American, who goes back to Greece to visit family, who plans to eventually move back there himself, and who pronounces it as dj-eye-roe.
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 12:15:40 PM
I recently heard a lady on BBC radio pronounce Wednesday as Wed'n-stay, and it caught me off guard. I'm not sure I've ever actually heard someone pronounce that first d before–at least, someone who wasn't trying to be funny.
In the late '90s, I worked in northern NJ for a telecommunications company. I worked with someone whose first name was Nihandra (that doesn't look right to me, maybe it was slightly different). Anyway, I believe he was from the Middle East, but I don't know exactly where.
He always pronounced Wednesday as "Wed-nes-day". That was the way he said it. He's the only person I've ever met who said it that way.
Probably not technically a mispronunciation as Merriam-Webster says it's all right, but for "amateur" I much prefer "ˈa-mə-chər" to "ˈa-mə-tər", which I think I hear more frequently (mostly by sports announcers).
I'm surprised (and annoyed) at how many people can't pronounce "Nevada" correctly.
Quote from: tmoore952 on September 22, 2023, 03:01:44 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 12:15:40 PM
I recently heard a lady on BBC radio pronounce Wednesday as Wed'n-stay, and it caught me off guard. I'm not sure I've ever actually heard someone pronounce that first d before–at least, someone who wasn't trying to be funny.
In the late '90s, I worked in northern NJ for a telecommunications company. I worked with someone whose first name was Nihandra (that doesn't look right to me, maybe it was slightly different). Anyway, I believe he was from the Middle East, but I don't know exactly where.
He always pronounced Wednesday as "Wed-nes-day". That was the way he said it. He's the only person I've ever met who said it that way.
I tend to give a pass to people from countries where English isn't the primary language. I had a roommate first year of law school who was from Strasbourg, France. He pronounced "Durham" so that the last three letters sounded like "ham" (as in a ham sandwich), and I understood why someone who spoke French as his first language would make that mistake. I did not correct him, either.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 03:20:43 PM
I'm surprised (and annoyed) at how many people can't pronounce "Nevada" correctly.
My mother pronounces "Oregon" with the stress on the final syllable–"or-i-GONE."
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 03:20:43 PM
I'm surprised (and annoyed) at how many people can't pronounce "Nevada" correctly.
Politicians blow that all the time. Not to be right-wing or left-wing, this is Fair and Balanced Screw-Ups:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIAhoKXDzG8
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 03:20:43 PM
I'm surprised (and annoyed) at how many people can't pronounce "Nevada" correctly.
Nuh-vay-duh (https://maps.app.goo.gl/55uXFSiKq21AvjBs9) is correct.
But you must admit that Nuh-vah-duh is actually closer to the name's Spanish origin than any other.
Mispronouncing Wisconsin as Wesconsin.
Quote from: Big John on September 22, 2023, 03:48:39 PM
Mispronouncing Wisconsin as Wesconsin.
In grade school I was taught to include the first "s" in the first syllable: wis-CON-sin. However I believe in the native pronunciation it's correctly attached to the second syllable" wi-SKON-cin.
Quote from: Big John on September 22, 2023, 03:48:39 PM
Mispronouncing Wisconsin as Wesconsin.
That goes along with the common Midwest pronunciation of milk as melk.
And often you hear Wesgonsin.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 03:56:15 PM
In grade school I was taught to include the first "s" in the first syllable: wis-CON-sin. However I believe in the native pronunciation it's correctly attached to the second syllable" wi-SKON-cin.
The "in grade school" reference reminds me of my own grade school. I was in a Catholic school, and in 4th grade (1976) was taught by a older nun named Sister Gorgonia.
Anyway, she taught us to say "what" as "hwhat", and "where" as "hwhere" etc.(the first "h" sound being very subtle)
While I did get why she was saying that, some of my male classmates took it to an extreme, saying "huh-what" and "huh-where". I think part of this was due to us (guys) having been thrown under the bus by her at one point, as a result we didn't like her very much.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 22, 2023, 03:25:18 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on September 22, 2023, 03:01:44 PM
In the late '90s, I worked in northern NJ for a telecommunications company. I worked with someone whose first name was Nihandra (that doesn't look right to me, maybe it was slightly different). Anyway, I believe he was from the Middle East, but I don't know exactly where.
He always pronounced Wednesday as "Wed-nes-day". That was the way he said it. He's the only person I've ever met who said it that way.
I tend to give a pass to people from countries where English isn't the primary language. I had a roommate first year of law school who was from Strasbourg, France. He pronounced "Durham" so that the last three letters sounded like "ham" (as in a ham sandwich), and I understood why someone who spoke French as his first language would make that mistake. I did not correct him, either.
To be clear, I never corrected him (Nihandra) either. Not my place to do that. He was a subject matter expert in the area I was being trained in, and so I was asking him a lot for guidance on technical wording in the area we were working in. Very smart man.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 03:56:15 PM
In grade school I was taught to include the first "s" in the first syllable: wis-CON-sin. However I believe in the native pronunciation it's correctly attached to the second syllable" wi-SKON-cin.
I'm trying to figure out what the difference is, and I just can't.
"Warshington"
"Seat-ol" instead of the very straightforward normal way, "Sea-at-uhl".
Corrupting various indigenous names because they don't look right to their untrained eyes, e.g. Snohomish (snow-hoe-mish) becoming "Snow-ha-mesh".
Quote from: tmoore952 on September 22, 2023, 04:23:38 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 22, 2023, 03:25:18 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on September 22, 2023, 03:01:44 PM
In the late '90s, I worked in northern NJ for a telecommunications company. I worked with someone whose first name was Nihandra (that doesn't look right to me, maybe it was slightly different). Anyway, I believe he was from the Middle East, but I don't know exactly where.
He always pronounced Wednesday as "Wed-nes-day". That was the way he said it. He's the only person I've ever met who said it that way.
I tend to give a pass to people from countries where English isn't the primary language. I had a roommate first year of law school who was from Strasbourg, France. He pronounced "Durham" so that the last three letters sounded like "ham" (as in a ham sandwich), and I understood why someone who spoke French as his first language would make that mistake. I did not correct him, either.
To be clear, I never corrected him (Nihandra) either. Not my place to do that. He was a subject matter expert in the area I was being trained in, and so I was asking him a lot for guidance on technical wording in the area we were working in. Very smart man.
I actually want to know if I'm mispronouncing a word–I learn new words mostly by reading, so I basically just have to guess at the pronunciation. Often, I guess wrong, because English spelling sucks.
Quote from: Bruce on March 14, 2022, 05:43:52 PM
More pronunciations that sound like nails on a chalkboard:
Warshington
Quote from: Bruce on September 22, 2023, 04:35:57 PM
"Warshington"
As was pointed out in the other thread:
Quote from: jakeroot on March 15, 2022, 01:47:46 PM
I hear Warshington a lot among older people, I wouldn't get too hung up on it. It's just an accent among older people. Intrusive R's are common in many accents.
Quote from: kphoger on March 15, 2022, 01:49:16 PM
When I was on family vacation to DC as a kid, I distinctly remember hearing a lot of locals pronouncing their own city's name as Warshington.
From what I've read, it's actually sign that someone is from a long-time, established DC family. The R-intrusive pronunciation is on the decline, meaning newcomers are actually more likely to pronounce it "correctly".
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 04:43:37 PM
English spelling sucks.
Or, more accurately, English spelling would be perfect if we living in the year 1400. But the most important changes in English pronunciation happened between then and about 300 years ago, and most words' spellings were never reformed to catch up with their pronunciations.
Quote from: tmoore952 on September 22, 2023, 04:18:19 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 03:56:15 PM
In grade school I was taught to include the first "s" in the first syllable: wis-CON-sin. However I believe in the native pronunciation it's correctly attached to the second syllable" wi-SKON-cin.
The "in grade school" reference reminds me of my own grade school. I was in a Catholic school, and in 4th grade (1976) was taught by a older nun named Sister Gorgonia.
Anyway, she taught us to say "what" as "hwhat", and "where" as "hwhere" etc.(the first "h" sound being very subtle)
While I did get why she was saying that, some of my male classmates took it to an extreme, saying "huh-what" and "huh-where". I think part of this was due to us (guys) having been thrown under the bus by her at one point, as a result we didn't like her very much.
My mother said that when she was a kid, her father deliberately pronounced the "s" in the word "island" (so like two words, "is land") so that they'd remember how to spell it. I believe that; as I have mentioned a few times, when I was a kid, he used to read the road signs out loud exactly as they appeared ("Coney Is Ave" being the one that I always remember the most). To my parents' everlasting chagrin, for several years after that my brother, our cousin James, and I used to scream out all the road signs around the Belt Parkway between Bay Ridge and the Marine Parkway Bridge and pronounce the words and abbreviations exactly as the letters appeared on the signs ("Ocean Pickway," for example).
I find some mispronunciations of Spanish words nothing more than humorous. Especially hal-a-pee-no for jalapeño just makes me roll my eyes. Although... my wife's grandmother (from Minnesota, which isn't exactly Latino-heavy) used to say juh-LAH-puh-no, which makes my brain stop working just thinking about it.
But the one that most bothers me is the British pronunciation of taco, which rhymes with whacko.
And really, when it comes to British people butchering Spanish words, I just want to grab them by the collar and cry out: Your country has such a long history of vacationing in Spain, and welcoming migrants from Spain, so how is it possible that you STILL no next to NOTHING about how to pronounce their words?
Eye-talian
Nook-u-ler (someone I work with does this, so no ill-conceived political jokes needed)
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 04:30:58 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 03:56:15 PM
In grade school I was taught to include the first "s" in the first syllable: wis-CON-sin. However I believe in the native pronunciation it's correctly attached to the second syllable" wi-SKON-cin.
I'm trying to figure out what the difference is, and I just can't.
If you put the "s" in the first syllable rather than the second, the "c" comes out a lot harder.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 03:20:43 PM
I'm surprised (and annoyed) at how many people can't pronounce "Nevada" correctly.
As am I. To be fair, pronouncing it with that incorrect "ah" sound is closer to the original Spanish...but it's not like Illinois is pronounced the French way, either...
The one that bothers me the most? :banghead:
SAND-or
I'm Hungarian,* so you pronounce it SHAWN-door (or Sawn-door, if you'd like)
Remember this the next time you see me at a roadmeet.
* - technically I'm 1/4 Hungarian.
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 22, 2023, 07:07:57 PM
The one that bothers me the most? :banghead:
SAND-or
I'm Hungarian,* so you pronounce it SHAWN-door (or Sawn-door, if you'd like)
Remember this the next time you see me at a roadmeet.
* - technically I'm 1/4 Hungarian.
I get 31 flavors for my last name. I usually just let it go, except then they ask how to prnnounce it, and I have to tell them.
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 04:49:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 04:43:37 PM
English spelling sucks.
Or, more accurately, English spelling would be perfect if we living in the year 1400. But the most important changes in English pronunciation happened between then and about 300 years ago, and most words' spellings were never reformed to catch up with their pronunciations.
The biggest problems I have are when English imports a word from another language (that's good! it means we have more words for specific things) but then leaves it spelled the same way it was in the original language. That spelling makes sense under the original language's rules, but in English, it doesn't. You just have to...remember this word is pronounced weirdly for the arbitrary reason of it having come from another language.
For example,
schadenfreude. The spelling makes sense if you're speaking German, but in English it ought to be spelled something like
shaddenfroid.
And in fact, we've done this with words before. Spanish
cañon became English
canyon. That's good! It's the same word, just changed to follow our rules! And nobody has any problem knowing how
canyon is pronounced.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 22, 2023, 07:52:37 PM
I get 31 flavors for my last name. I usually just let it go, except then they ask how to prnnounce it, and I have to tell them.
Nice to meet you, Mr. Baskin-Robbins.
Quote from: US 89 on September 22, 2023, 06:46:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 04:30:58 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 03:56:15 PM
In grade school I was taught to include the first "s" in the first syllable: wis-CON-sin. However I believe in the native pronunciation it's correctly attached to the second syllable" wi-SKON-cin.
I'm trying to figure out what the difference is, and I just can't.
If you put the "s" in the first syllable rather than the second, the "c" comes out a lot harder.
Putting the "s" and "c" in the same syllable produces a very noticeable "SKUH" sound to my ear, whereas separating them is more of a "HISS-KUH". One of those where I know it when I hear it, I guess.
Quote from: US 89 on September 22, 2023, 06:46:50 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 03:20:43 PM
I'm surprised (and annoyed) at how many people can't pronounce "Nevada" correctly.
As am I. To be fair, pronouncing it with that incorrect "ah" sound is closer to the original Spanish...but it's not like Illinois is pronounced the French way, either...
You don't want to get started on anglicized pronunciations of California place names like Los Angeles, San Francisco or my personal favorite, "San Lewis Uh-BISS-poh".
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 08:31:33 PM
You don't want to get started on anglicized pronunciations of California place names like Los Angeles, San Francisco or my personal favorite, "San Lewis Uh-BISS-poh".
"Scaramento" for the capital city, anyone? (with the first syllable pronounced as
scare)
Another classic state capital mispronunciation is "dez moynz."
As for my hometown, I get "shih-kay-goh" a lot (as opposed to "shih-kah-goh").
Aks instead of ask.
Tortilla as tor-TEE-la
People who put the emphasis on "New" in New Haven (any city in CT that has a "New" as its first word puts the emphasis on the 2nd)
Escape as "excape"
Restaurateur as "restauranteur
Comfortable as "comfterble"
Worcester as "Warchester"
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on September 22, 2023, 10:50:43 PM
Comfortable as "comfterble"
That's how it's pronounced. What are you doing, making it rhyme with "convertible"? Com-fer-tahb-lay?
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 03:20:43 PM
I'm surprised (and annoyed) at how many people can't pronounce "Nevada" correctly.
The county in Arkansas (which in itself can be questioned the same way) say their county a Nă vād ă.
This thread is meaningless for me, since Spanish pronounciations are pretty much straightforward :sombrero: (The opposite, however, isn't true). However I despise those Spanish place names whose pronounciations are butchered, e.g. it's written Buena Vista, Colorado, so pronounciation should be that, not as if it was written "Biuna Vista".
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on September 23, 2023, 04:08:15 PM
...I despise those Spanish place names whose pronounciations are butchered...
You'll be unhappy to know that the first word of "Los Angeles" and "Las Vegas" are pronounced exactly the same by most Americans.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 23, 2023, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on September 23, 2023, 04:08:15 PM
...I despise those Spanish place names whose pronounciations are butchered...
You'll be unhappy to know that the first word of "Los Angeles" and "Las Vegas" are pronounced exactly the same by most Americans.
While the other "Los" cities in California (Los Gatos, Los Altos, Los Alamitos, Los Banos) are pronounced "more" correctly - "lohs".
Then you have the Brits, who pronounce the final "e" in "Los Angeles" as a long "e"—"Los Angelease" ("lease" pronounced like the word spelled that way).
(Edited to fix punctuation after the forum shutdown)
QuoteMispronunciation that bother you
Ironically, the noun and verb disagree on whether the sentence is plural or not :angry:
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 03:20:43 PM
I'm surprised (and annoyed) at how many people can't pronounce "Nevada" correctly.
It always strikes me as extremely pretentious when East Coasters in particular use the argument "that's how it's pronounced in Spanish, so why should it be anything else?" when justifying pronouncing Nevada or Colorado differently from the local consensus. Do they also pronounce Texas, New Mexico, or Montana like the Spanish words? How about pronouncing Detroit "Deh-twah?"
I mean I get it, it sucks that Americans bastardize the pronunciation of foreign words so frequently, but who are you to tell someone who was born and raised in these places that they should be pronounced like a language they may or may not have a connection with?
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 24, 2023, 02:17:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 03:20:43 PM
I'm surprised (and annoyed) at how many people can't pronounce "Nevada" correctly.
It always strikes me as extremely pretentious when East Coasters in particular use the argument “that’s how it’s pronounced in Spanish, so why should it be anything else?” when justifying pronouncing Nevada or Colorado differently from the local consensus. Do they also pronounce Texas, New Mexico, or Montana like the Spanish words? How about pronouncing Detroit “Deh-twah?”
I agree with this 1000%. If I go to the northeast and mispronounce a place like Worcester, MA incorrectly, I'm going to be corrected very quickly - and rightly so. But apparently it's offensive for places off the coasts to defend their own pronunciations. As someone from Utah, I will defend the proper pronunciation of neighboring Nevada (while obviously trying not to be annoying about it). But the reaction from eastern people is almost always something along the lines of "oh you're so silly" with zero effort to fix it. I'm willing to be patient with people, but that sort of reaction is simply rude IMO.
I also routinely get made fun of among my Florida/Georgia/east coast friends for my apparently weird pronunciation of Colorado. I don't even hear a difference between what comes out of my mouth and how they think it should be pronounced. I guess because I don't have an overemphasized "ahhhh" sound coming from the back of my mouth, I'm wrong?
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: US 89 on September 22, 2023, 06:46:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 04:30:58 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 03:56:15 PM
In grade school I was taught to include the first "s" in the first syllable: wis-CON-sin. However I believe in the native pronunciation it's correctly attached to the second syllable" wi-SKON-cin.
I'm trying to figure out what the difference is, and I just can't.
If you put the "s" in the first syllable rather than the second, the "c" comes out a lot harder.
Putting the "s" and "c" in the same syllable produces a very noticeable "SKUH" sound to my ear, whereas separating them is more of a "HISS-KUH". One of those where I know it when I hear it, I guess.
I can't tell one bit of difference. In fact, it doesn't matter which syllable I 'decide' to put the letter 's' in: I still end up pronouncing it exactly the same either way. What are you guys doing? Pausing between syllables or something? All the letters just flow together when I say the word, no matter how I conceptualize the syllabic structure. I'm honestly in the dark here. And keep in mind that I'm a bit of a language nerd, so this is really baffling me.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 08:09:14 PM
And in fact, we've done this with words before. Spanish cañon became English canyon. That's good! It's the same word, just changed to follow our rules! And nobody has any problem knowing how canyon is pronounced.
Is this a good time for me to point out that the English word canyon is
not pronounced the same as the Spanish word cañón? Both vowels are pronounced differently, and the stress is on the wrong syllable.
Quote from: Henry on September 22, 2023, 09:17:01 PM
Another classic state capital mispronunciation is "dez moynz."
And yet ... Des Plaines, IL ...
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on September 23, 2023, 04:08:15 PM
This thread is meaningless for me, since Spanish pronounciations are pretty much straightforward :sombrero: (The opposite, however, isn't true).
So it doesn't bother you when people pronounce
cabeza to rhyme with
fresa?
Quote from: US 89 on September 24, 2023, 02:43:53 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 24, 2023, 02:17:55 PM
It always strikes me as extremely pretentious when East Coasters in particular use the argument "that's how it's pronounced in Spanish, so why should it be anything else?" when justifying pronouncing Nevada or Colorado differently from the local consensus. Do they also pronounce Texas, New Mexico, or Montana like the Spanish words? How about pronouncing Detroit "Deh-twah?"
I agree with this 1000%. If I go to the northeast and mispronounce a place like Worcester, MA incorrectly, I'm going to be corrected very quickly - and rightly so. But apparently it's offensive for places off the coasts to defend their own pronunciations. As someone from Utah, I will defend the proper pronunciation of neighboring Nevada (while obviously trying not to be annoying about it). But the reaction from eastern people is almost always something along the lines of "oh you're so silly" with zero effort to fix it. I'm willing to be patient with people, but that sort of reaction is simply rude IMO.
How do these people pronounce Cape Canaveral?
Actually, what I'm interested in is how Mexican-Americans pronounce the Spanish-origin names of certain Texas towns, as compared to how white Texans pronounce them.
Now let's talk about the word
Parmesan. I'll continue pronouncing it 'wrong' till the day I die.
The worst one for me is British soccer commentators almost intentionally mispronouncing MartÃnez as "MAH(R)-tih-nez".
I get that British English doesn't use the same vowels as Spanish (or American English for that matter), but how hard is it to get the stress right in a very common last name? And they've clearly heard the name from others before, but yet they can't seem to be bothered to even try.
Quote from: kurumi on September 24, 2023, 02:03:01 AM
QuoteMispronunciation that bother you
Ironically, the noun and verb disagree on whether the sentence is plural or not :angry:
Yes, I noticed the typo pretty quick, but haven't fixed it yet.
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: US 89 on September 22, 2023, 06:46:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 04:30:58 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 03:56:15 PM
In grade school I was taught to include the first "s" in the first syllable: wis-CON-sin. However I believe in the native pronunciation it's correctly attached to the second syllable" wi-SKON-cin.
I'm trying to figure out what the difference is, and I just can't.
If you put the "s" in the first syllable rather than the second, the "c" comes out a lot harder.
Putting the "s" and "c" in the same syllable produces a very noticeable "SKUH" sound to my ear, whereas separating them is more of a "HISS-KUH". One of those where I know it when I hear it, I guess.
I can't tell one bit of difference. In fact, it doesn't matter which syllable I 'decide' to put the letter 's' in: I still end up pronouncing it exactly the same either way. What are you guys doing? Pausing between syllables or something? All the letters just flow together when I say the word, no matter how I conceptualize the syllabic structure. I'm honestly in the dark here. And keep in mind that I'm a bit of a language nerd, so this is really baffling me
I guess this is too hard to articulate in print, I'd need to have you listen to it. To my ear there's a pretty significant difference in starting the second syllable with the "s" sound vs. starting it with the "hard c"/"k" sound.
In World Cup matches where the announcer pronounces Tunisia with 4 syllables.
Quote from: Big John on September 25, 2023, 04:38:05 PM
In World Cup matches where the announcer pronounces Tunisia with 4 syllables.
Less egregious since Tunisia is pronounced with 4 syllables in their own language. We're the ones that kind of bastardize it.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 22, 2023, 11:54:49 AM
"Govur-mint" and "env-eye-ur-mint" (ignoring the midword "n" in both cases—"government" and "environment") are two I hear fairly often.
"Nucular" is another.
"Artic" and "Antartic"/"Antartica" are ones I hear less often.
The difference between words like "government" and "environment" and other words in this thread is that "goverment" and "enviurment" are listed as acceptable pronunciations in a few major dictionaries. If there's words like "often" where a letter, in this case the 't' can be silent or not silent, it just depends on personal preference, I suppose the same could be valid for this.
Quote from: index on September 25, 2023, 06:04:55 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 22, 2023, 11:54:49 AM
"Govur-mint" and "env-eye-ur-mint" (ignoring the midword "n" in both cases–"government" and "environment") are two I hear fairly often.
"Nucular" is another.
"Artic" and "Antartic"/"Antartica" are ones I hear less often.
The difference between words like "government" and "environment" and other words in this thread is that "goverment" and "enviurment" are listed as acceptable pronunciations in a few major dictionaries. If there's words like "often" where a letter, in this case the 't' can be silent or not silent, it just depends on personal preference, I suppose the same could be valid for this.
Where I come from its enviorment and until I looked it up,I was shocked to learn it had a middle n in the word as I have never heard anyone pronounce it as it's spelled.
Government I was taught in broadcasting school to not leave out silent letters but when saying envelope to pronounce the e at the beginning as an "O" and say onvelope.
The only ones that really bother me are my last name, which is inevitably mangled by anyone who doesn't have it, and the French word femme, since I teach French and this is by far the most mispronounced word. (For the record, its "fahm.")
Their own fault they spell it with an E.
In Wichita. The Arkansas River is pronounced not like the state it's named for but the state that Wichita is in with the prefix "are."
Basically Kansas is in the name Arkansas and if my friend who used to live there is correct, Arkansas says their state name incorrectly. Then again do people fro Arkansas claim Kansas pronounces their state name wrong? :sombrero:
Kansas is named after the Kanza people, now known as the Kaw Nation.
Arkansas is named after the word arcansa, which was an Algonquian word referring to the Quapaw people. Then it got Frenched up.
So despite the two states being spelled the same their names actually have nothing to do with each other. (You could maybe make an argument that Arkansas should be renamed "Quapaw", though.)
Cayro? c'mon Illinois, no wonder it's becoming a ghost town
LANK-aster? seriously?
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 10:58:31 AM
Now let's talk about the word Parmesan. I'll continue pronouncing it 'wrong' till the day I die.
Wow, no debate at all on this one?
Quote from: kphoger on September 26, 2023, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 10:58:31 AM
Now let's talk about the word Parmesan. I'll continue pronouncing it 'wrong' till the day I die.
Wow, no debate at all on this one?
How do you pronounce it?
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 26, 2023, 04:34:18 AM
Kansas is named after the Kanza people, now known as the Kaw Nation.
Arkansas is named after the word arcansa, which was an Algonquian word referring to the Quapaw people. Then it got Frenched up.
It's probably worth mentioning, though, that both names come from the same root, like chief and chef.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 26, 2023, 10:11:14 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 26, 2023, 10:07:20 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 10:58:31 AM
Now let's talk about the word Parmesan. I'll continue pronouncing it 'wrong' till the day I die.
Wow, no debate at all on this one?
How do you pronounce it?
My guess would be with a "zh" instead of a "z."
How about Worcestershire Sauce? I've never been able to pronounce that as well as family and friends of mine.
Going back a ways for this one. It's not one I've heard anywhere else.
Was listening to Woodstock (1969) soundtrack recently, and Arlo Guthrie's "Coming into Los Angeles".
He sings it "Coming into Los Ange-"lease"".
Those of you who know the song know that the next lines are
"Bringing in a couple of "keys". Don't touch my bags, if you please, Mr. customs man".
I am aware that the lines involve importing some substance you weren't/aren't allowed to import.
Assume that "keys" is slang for "kilos", or was some old slang that meant "joint", but maybe I am wrong.
Never done that.
Anyway, the last paragraph illustrates why he sang "Los Angeles" that way.
Quote from: tmoore952 on September 29, 2023, 02:50:07 PM
Going back a ways for this one. It's not one I've heard anywhere else.
Was listening to Woodstock (1969) soundtrack recently, and Arlo Guthrie's "Coming into Los Angeles".
He sings it "Coming into Los Ange-"lease"".
Those of you who know the song know that the next lines are
"Bringing in a couple of "keys". Don't touch my bags, if you please, Mr. customs man".
I am aware that the lines involve importing some substance you weren't/aren't allowed to import.
Assume that "keys" is slang for "kilos", or was some old slang that meant "joint", but maybe I am wrong.
Never done that.
Anyway, the last paragraph illustrates why he sang "Los Angeles" that way.
I once saw Guthrie perform that song in Croce's Bar, back in the 1990s. It had long been Mr and Mrs Croce's dream to open a music bar; he died before they could make that happen, but she opened it up anyway after his death, in the Gaslight district of San Diego. I sat about ten feet away from Guthrie, and various relatives of famous musicians were one or two tables over from us, including Mrs Croce. It was a pretty amazing experience—especially considering that we just happened to notice a flyer in the window while we were walking around the day before, and didn't imagine there would even still be tickets available. It was perhaps in bad taste, because I recall some drug-related news story or another having recently come out, but whatever. The bar has since closed...
Back to the topic, though. My understanding is that multiple pronunciations of Los Angeles were in use during its early days, and since then it has gradually homogenized to Anne-juh-liss. Both pronunciations can be beard in the 1942 Alfred Hitchcock film
Saboteur, and former Los Angles mayor Sam Yorty (transplant from the Midwest) pronounced it as Anne-guh-leeze. But yes, those 'alternate' pronunciations are falling more and more out of common use.
^^^^
Although, as I mentioned further up the thread, the Brits seem to use the long "e" pronunciation as their standard one (with a soft "s" sound on the end, rather than the "z" sound you note).
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 23, 2023, 08:04:35 PM
Then you have the Brits, who pronounce the final "e" in "Los Angeles" as a long "e"—"Los Angelease" ("lease" pronounced like the word spelled that way).
(Edited to fix punctuation after the forum shutdown)
^^^^
Because, as I mentioned also upthread, it seems that the Brits have no interest (worse than Americans!) in attempting to pronounce Spanish names remotely accurately.
To be fair... How do you pronounce Achilles and Hercules (the Greek heroes)?
Quote from: kphoger on September 29, 2023, 03:58:25 PM
To be fair... How do you pronounce Achilles and Hercules (the Greek heroes)?
Hopefully not like this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGELdp1kurA
Quote from: kphoger on September 29, 2023, 03:58:25 PM
To be fair... How do you pronounce Achilles and Hercules (the Greek heroes)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGELdp1kurA
Quote from: kphoger on September 29, 2023, 03:58:25 PM
To be fair... How do you pronounce Achilles and Hercules (the Greek heroes)?
To be fair... Greek is somewhere around the 75th most commonly spoken language in the world. Spanish is 4th. And specifically to my Martínez example earlier, there are currently 2 Greeks playing in the Premier League. There are 12 Spaniards, 11 Argentinians, 4 Colombians, 2 Ecuadorians, 2 Paraguayans, 2 Uruguayans, and 2 Mexicans. The exposure to the name 'Martínez' is much higher than the proper Greek pronunciations of the heroes (that I don't know either).
That Wheel of Fortune guy is such an epic fail that two people posted it here in a manner of seconds.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 29, 2023, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 29, 2023, 03:58:25 PM
To be fair... How do you pronounce Achilles and Hercules (the Greek heroes)?
To be fair... Greek is somewhere around the 75th most commonly spoken language in the world. Spanish is 4th. And specifically to my Martínez example earlier, there are currently 2 Greeks playing in the Premier League. There are 12 Spaniards, 11 Argentinians, 4 Colombians, 2 Ecuadorians, 2 Paraguayans, 2 Uruguayans, and 2 Mexicans. The exposure to the name 'Martínez' is much higher than the proper Greek pronunciations of the heroes (that I don't know either).
To be fair... Greece is a lot closer to England than Los Angeles is. Its myths and legends have also been commonly taught in British schools as part of a general western civilization education for literally centuries—since hundreds of years before Modern Spanish was even a thing. It frustrates me as much as it does you that Brits can't seem to pronounce Spanish better than my nine-year-old son, but it's at least understandable that they would assume a place name ending in -les might rhyme with those figures' names.
Quote from: kphoger on September 29, 2023, 04:21:00 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 29, 2023, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 29, 2023, 03:58:25 PM
To be fair... How do you pronounce Achilles and Hercules (the Greek heroes)?
To be fair... Greek is somewhere around the 75th most commonly spoken language in the world. Spanish is 4th. And specifically to my Martínez example earlier, there are currently 2 Greeks playing in the Premier League. There are 12 Spaniards, 11 Argentinians, 4 Colombians, 2 Ecuadorians, 2 Paraguayans, 2 Uruguayans, and 2 Mexicans. The exposure to the name 'Martínez' is much higher than the proper Greek pronunciations of the heroes (that I don't know either).
To be fair... Greece is a lot closer to England than Los Angeles is. Its myths and legends have also been commonly taught in British schools as part of a general western civilization education for literally centuries—since hundreds of years before Modern Spanish was even a thing. It frustrates me as much as it does you that Brits can't seem to pronounce Spanish better than my nine-year-old son, but it's at least understandable that they would assume a place name ending in -les might rhyme with those figures' names.
Might be closer, but I bet the amount of Brits that have been to Greece vs. Spain is probably in a 1:4 ratio.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 29, 2023, 04:22:43 PM
Might be closer, but I bet the amount of Brits that have been to Greece vs. Spain is probably in a 1:4 ratio.
Do they butcher the pronunciation of peninsular Spanish place names, though? I haven't noticed them doing so.
Quote from: kphoger on September 29, 2023, 04:24:17 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 29, 2023, 04:22:43 PM
Might be closer, but I bet the amount of Brits that have been to Greece vs. Spain is probably in a 1:4 ratio.
Do they butcher the pronunciation of peninsular Spanish place names, though? I haven't noticed them doing so.
Some vowel stuff I can think of off-hand. The soccer team Real Sociedad I've definitely heard "so-see-ya-DAD" vs. "so-see-ya-DAHD". And then accent things, getting Córdoba and Málaga wrong by emphasizing on the second syllable.
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: US 89 on September 22, 2023, 06:46:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2023, 04:30:58 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on September 22, 2023, 03:56:15 PM
In grade school I was taught to include the first "s" in the first syllable: wis-CON-sin. However I believe in the native pronunciation it's correctly attached to the second syllable" wi-SKON-cin.
I'm trying to figure out what the difference is, and I just can't.
If you put the "s" in the first syllable rather than the second, the "c" comes out a lot harder.
Putting the "s" and "c" in the same syllable produces a very noticeable "SKUH" sound to my ear, whereas separating them is more of a "HISS-KUH". One of those where I know it when I hear it, I guess.
I can't tell one bit of difference. In fact, it doesn't matter which syllable I 'decide' to put the letter 's' in: I still end up pronouncing it exactly the same either way. What are you guys doing? Pausing between syllables or something? All the letters just flow together when I say the word, no matter how I conceptualize the syllabic structure. I'm honestly in the dark here. And keep in mind that I'm a bit of a language nerd, so this is really baffling me.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 22, 2023, 08:09:14 PM
And in fact, we've done this with words before. Spanish cañon became English canyon. That's good! It's the same word, just changed to follow our rules! And nobody has any problem knowing how canyon is pronounced.
Is this a good time for me to point out that the English word canyon is not pronounced the same as the Spanish word cañón? Both vowels are pronounced differently, and the stress is on the wrong syllable.
Quote from: Henry on September 22, 2023, 09:17:01 PM
Another classic state capital mispronunciation is "dez moynz."
And yet ... Des Plaines, IL ...
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on September 23, 2023, 04:08:15 PM
This thread is meaningless for me, since Spanish pronounciations are pretty much straightforward :sombrero: (The opposite, however, isn't true).
So it doesn't bother you when people pronounce cabeza to rhyme with fresa?
Quote from: US 89 on September 24, 2023, 02:43:53 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 24, 2023, 02:17:55 PM
It always strikes me as extremely pretentious when East Coasters in particular use the argument "that's how it's pronounced in Spanish, so why should it be anything else?" when justifying pronouncing Nevada or Colorado differently from the local consensus. Do they also pronounce Texas, New Mexico, or Montana like the Spanish words? How about pronouncing Detroit "Deh-twah?"
I agree with this 1000%. If I go to the northeast and mispronounce a place like Worcester, MA incorrectly, I'm going to be corrected very quickly - and rightly so. But apparently it's offensive for places off the coasts to defend their own pronunciations. As someone from Utah, I will defend the proper pronunciation of neighboring Nevada (while obviously trying not to be annoying about it). But the reaction from eastern people is almost always something along the lines of "oh you're so silly" with zero effort to fix it. I'm willing to be patient with people, but that sort of reaction is simply rude IMO.
How do these people pronounce Cape Canaveral?
Actually, what I'm interested in is how Mexican-Americans pronounce the Spanish-origin names of certain Texas towns, as compared to how white Texans pronounce them.
Now let's talk about the word Parmesan. I'll continue pronouncing it 'wrong' till the day I die.
As to the difference between the Texas and California pronunciations of, for instance, Amarillo and Camarillo: The Texans pronounce them more like they did in the 1600-early 1700s, which are much closer to the Portuguese. In California, the names come more like 1750-1840. I have heard all 4 pronunciations of the primary California Mission founder, Junipero Serra: /h/, /dzy/ /zh/, and /y/ for the "J"
On the football telecast from Corvallis, OR tonight Tim Brando's introduction included a "from the beautiful 'WILL-uh-met' Valley". Somebody gave him the business about it because he apologized for it: "Leave it to a guy from Louisiana to mispronounce 'Will-AMM-ett'".
Quote from: kphoger on September 29, 2023, 03:58:25 PM
To be fair... How do you pronounce Achilles and Hercules (the Greek heroes)?
My wife and I both recently read
The Song of Achilles. While she pronounces Achilles correctly, she tends to pronounce "Patroclus" with the same ending as "Achilles" (i.e. as if it were spelled "Patrocles"). This makes me wince, although I'm not confident enough in my pronunciation of Greek names to actually bring it up...
Popsicles, the lesser known Greek soldier...
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 30, 2023, 12:03:00 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 29, 2023, 03:58:25 PM
To be fair... How do you pronounce Achilles and Hercules (the Greek heroes)?
My wife and I both recently read The Song of Achilles. While she pronounces Achilles correctly, she tends to pronounce "Patroclus" with the same ending as "Achilles" (i.e. as if it were spelled "Patrocles"). This makes me wince, although I'm not confident enough in my pronunciation of Greek names to actually bring it up...
Reminds me of a trip we took to Hawaii where someone explained the pronunciation of Likelike Highway on Oahu (it's a Hawaiian name, so you pronounce every letter in "Likelike") and then noted that many tourists take it a step too far and don't recognize that things named Pipeline have English names pronounced like they would be anywhere else.