https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/25/politics/new-us-diplomatic-relations/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/25/politics/new-us-diplomatic-relations/index.html)
Looks like the U.S. has just recognized Niue and the Cook Islands as independent countries. I visited the Cook Islands back in 2012, so now up to 74.
In before Rothman says you need to revisit the country for it to count. :colorful:
Just because the US recognizes it doesn't mean it's actually a new country. (I'm serious about this one, unlike 7/8's post regarding Rothman.)
How can you say you've visited a country that didn't exist when you allegedly did?
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 02:48:05 PM
How can you say you've visited a country that didn't exist when you allegedly did?
By typing "click, clack, click" on my keyboard. I can say it out loud to no one in particular right now as well.
Question: Did Juan Ponce de León visit Brevard County in 1513?
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 02:51:01 PM
Question: Did Juan Ponce de León visit Brevard County in 1513?
He visited what is now Brevard County in 1513. Not particularly a related analogy though.
Nothing has changed with the Cook Islands since I visited other than recognition. They have been an independent nation in free association with New Zealand since 1965. The only thing that has changed now is that the U.S. government recognizes them as independent, so, therefore, do I. It's not like they just declared independence.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 02:54:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 02:51:01 PM
Question: Did Juan Ponce de León visit Brevard County in 1513?
He visited what is now Brevard County in 1513. Not particularly a related analogy though.
Nothing has changed with the Cook Islands since I visited other than recognition. They have been an independent nation in free association with New Zealand since 1965. The only thing that has changed now is that the U.S. government recognizes them as independent, so, therefore, do I. It's not like they just declared independence.
If independence is reliant upon U.S. recognition (as you say, "so do I"), then they weren't independent prior to that recognition.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 02:54:47 PM
Nothing has changed with the Cook Islands since I visited other than recognition. They have been an independent nation in free association with New Zealand since 1965. The only thing that has changed now is that the U.S. government recognizes them as independent, so, therefore, do I. It's not like they just declared independence.
So really, from our perspective, all that happened is that you changed your mind about including it in the list. I mean, you're the one who decided to use the same list as the US government to begin with.
The "correct" list of countries is UN + Kosovo + Taiwan.
Well, I could just be completely willy nilly about a list of what is or isn't a country, or I could go by some generally accepted list. Otherwise there are many other autonomous regions, etc. that I could include: Scotland, Svalbard, Madeira, Aland, etc.
The correct list is using Sporcle's world capital quiz
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2023, 03:00:18 PM
The "correct" list of countries is UN + Kosovo + Taiwan.
So you can pick and choose what to add or subtract from a recognized list?
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 02:58:50 PM
If independence is reliant upon U.S. recognition (as you say, "so do I"), then they weren't independent prior to that recognition.
No, no, you're missing it. He says it was an independent country
in reality while he was there, but that it wasn't an independent country
on his list while he was there.
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 03:03:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 02:58:50 PM
If independence is reliant upon U.S. recognition (as you say, "so do I"), then they weren't independent prior to that recognition.
No, no, you're missing it. He says it was an independent country in reality while he was there, but that it wasn't an independent country on his list while he was there.
Correct.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 03:01:04 PM
Well, I could just be completely willy nilly about a list of what is or isn't a country, or I could go by some generally accepted list. Otherwise there are many other autonomous regions, etc. that I could include: Scotland, Svalbard, Madeira, Aland, etc.
That's just crazytalk.
I wonder if your list of visited countries should change whenever you cross an international boundary, to match that country's official list.
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 03:05:46 PM
I wonder if your list of visited countries should change whenever you cross an international boundary, to match that country's official list.
Eh, I've been to some countries that recognize some stranger "countries". For instance, Nicaragua recognizes Abkhazia, Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, and South Ossetia. I have less of an issue with "Western Sahara" than I do for the other two.
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2023, 03:00:18 PM
The "correct" list of countries is UN + Kosovo + Taiwan.
Also, no Vatican City?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 03:05:46 PM
I wonder if your list of visited countries should change whenever you cross an international boundary, to match that country's official list.
Eh, I've been to some countries that recognize some stranger "countries". For instance, Nicaragua recognizes Abkhazia, Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, and South Ossetia. I have less of an issue with "Western Sahara" than I do for the other two.
Of particular interest may be the fact that New Zealand does
not recognize the Cook Islands as an independent country.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 03:16:05 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2023, 03:00:18 PM
The "correct" list of countries is UN + Kosovo + Taiwan.
Also, no Vatican City?
Somehow I didn't realize that the UN didn't recognize Vatican City.
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 03:17:37 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 03:12:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 03:05:46 PM
I wonder if your list of visited countries should change whenever you cross an international boundary, to match that country's official list.
Eh, I've been to some countries that recognize some stranger "countries". For instance, Nicaragua recognizes Abkhazia, Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, and South Ossetia. I have less of an issue with "Western Sahara" than I do for the other two.
Of particular interest may be the fact that New Zealand does not recognize the Cook Islands as an independent country.
Eh, doesn't matter since we do now. U-S-A! U-S-A!
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2023, 03:18:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 03:16:05 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2023, 03:00:18 PM
The "correct" list of countries is UN + Kosovo + Taiwan.
Also, no Vatican City?
Somehow I didn't realize that the UN didn't recognize Vatican City.
Also, if you include Kosovo, then there wouldn't be a whole lot of reason to exclude Cook Islands and Niue. The three have basically the same status within the UN, with the latter two actually having more recognition.
Minus ten points for not saying you've visited a Niue country.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 25, 2023, 03:40:21 PM
Minus ten points for not saying you've visited a Niue country.
Had only I visited Niue instead, then maybe I could have pulled this off.
Cook Islands was well worth the long ass flight.
(https://rebellioustourist.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Aitutaki-Cook-Islands-e1544724130238.jpg)
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2023, 03:18:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 03:16:05 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2023, 03:00:18 PM
The "correct" list of countries is UN + Kosovo + Taiwan.
Also, no Vatican City?
Somehow I didn't realize that the UN didn't recognize Vatican City.
The UN does, though, recognize the Holy See as a state that isn't a member.
It's never a country until someone here wants to build a fictional freeway on it.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 03:12:26 PM
Eh, I've been to some countries that recognize some stranger "countries". For instance, Nicaragua recognizes Abkhazia, Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, and South Ossetia. I have less of an issue with "Western Sahara" than I do for the other two.
Unless I'm mistaken, substantially more UN member states recognize the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic than recognize Taiwan.
Based on the title, I just assumed you've moved to the Haskell Free Library.
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 04:23:46 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 03:12:26 PM
Eh, I've been to some countries that recognize some stranger "countries". For instance, Nicaragua recognizes Abkhazia, Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, and South Ossetia. I have less of an issue with "Western Sahara" than I do for the other two.
Unless I'm mistaken, substantially more UN member states recognize the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic than recognize Taiwan.
Correct. Which is also why I came to the conclusion that I have to use some kind of list to start with, and given that there are 196! ways that countries could have their own lists, plus a way the UN has its own list, I might as well use the US list given that I'm a US citizen.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on September 25, 2023, 04:28:35 PM
Based on the title, I just assumed you've moved to the Haskell Free Library.
They weren't selling.
To be fair, Alan J. Villarruel also ended up visiting another country without leaving his house.
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 04:41:11 PM
To be fair, Alan J. Villarruel also ended up visiting another country without leaving his house.
In theory, so did this guy:
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/048/032/490/large/soumyadeep-sen-carl1.jpg?1649058094)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 04:43:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 25, 2023, 04:41:11 PM
To be fair, Alan J. Villarruel also ended up visiting another country without leaving his house.
In theory, so did this guy:
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/048/032/490/large/soumyadeep-sen-carl1.jpg?1649058094)
He left his house.
(https://dogoday.com/files/image-exchange/2017/07/ie_35160.jpeg)
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 25, 2023, 04:13:45 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2023, 03:18:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 25, 2023, 03:16:05 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 25, 2023, 03:00:18 PM
The "correct" list of countries is UN + Kosovo + Taiwan.
Also, no Vatican City?
Somehow I didn't realize that the UN didn't recognize Vatican City.
The UN does, though, recognize the Holy See as a state that isn't a member.
And the UN recognizes Cook Islands and Niue as eligible non-members.
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2023, 03:01:40 PM
The correct list is using Sporcle's world capital quiz
The problems begin when you mis-click a question and accidently spark a proxy war between Kerguelen Islands and Sealand via San Marino's postage stamp trade.