Which cities would be good for sports teams (both major and minor leagues)? At least I think that Bismarck, ND should have a minor league team. Other cities good for minor league teams are:
Rochester, MN
Cheyenne, WY
Kalispell, MT
Lethbridge, AB
Shreveport, LA
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 30, 2023, 01:19:55 PM
Which cities would be good for sports teams (both major and minor leagues)? At least I think that Bismarck, ND should have a minor league team. Other cities good for minor league teams are:
Rochester, MN
Cheyenne, WY
Kalispell, MT
Lethbridge, AB
Shreveport, LA
Québec City, QC, no ifs or buts about it. Also, how did you manage to make the text so small?
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 30, 2023, 01:19:55 PM
Which cities would be good for sports teams (both major and minor leagues)? At least I think that Bismarck, ND should have a minor league team. Other cities good for minor league teams are:
Rochester, MN
You mean like the Rochester Honkers, Rochester FC, Rochester Grizzlies, Med City Football Club?
Do you even do any research before you spout your half-baked ideas?
I've researched one on your list. For the others, as they used to say in math books, the proof is left to the reader.
What about the Rio Grande Valley? They always seem to be forgotten.
One thing I will say about Rochester, MN is that when they reorganized minor league baseball in 2021, they should have stuck the Twins affiliate in the Midwest League in Rochester. At least it would have been logical.
The Hampton Roads area needs a major pro sports team. At least they have Triple-A teams.
Fresno seems very large to only have a Single A team (the Grizzlies), the USPHL Monsters and USL League 1 f Central Valley Fuego.
Whatever town Popo13 lives in, with a giant stadium inches from his house. Free vuvuzelas to all fans.
Austin, TX has to be up there for cities most worthy for Pro sports teams.
It has the money from Venture Capitalists and certain number of companies are putting their Texas offices there.
https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/06/how-austin-texas-has-evolved-into-a-city-of-unicorns-and-tech-giants/
https://www.businessinsider.com/austin-texas-silicon-hills-tech-capital-city-photos-2019-2
Quote from: SectorZ on October 01, 2023, 08:30:44 AM
Whatever town Popo13 lives in, with a giant stadium inches from his house. Free vuvuzelas to all fans.
With no possibility of promotion, so they're stuck in whatever bottom-level league they join.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 30, 2023, 01:19:55 PM
Which cities would be good for sports teams (both major and minor leagues)? At least I think that Bismarck, ND should have a minor league team. Other cities good for minor league teams are:
Rochester, MN
Cheyenne, WY
Kalispell, MT
Lethbridge, AB
Shreveport, LA
UMM? Money from Venture Capitalists talks louder than these cities you put on the list. The other place I have on this list most worthy for pro sports teams on the top level is Raleigh, NC.
https://technical.ly/startups/raleigh-north-carolina-innovation-hub/ (https://technical.ly/startups/raleigh-north-carolina-innovation-hub/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raleigh,_North_Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raleigh,_North_Carolina)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Triangle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Triangle)
The three big cities in Texas should all be major league cities in the top 3 sports. Hockey can stay in Dallas.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 30, 2023, 01:19:55 PM
Which cities would be good for sports teams (both major and minor leagues)? At least I think that Bismarck, ND should have a minor league team. Other cities good for minor league teams are:
Rochester, MN
Cheyenne, WY
Kalispell, MT
Lethbridge, AB
Shreveport, LA
Rochester: Cheer for the Minneapolis teams.
Cheyenne: Cheer for the Denver/Colorado teams.
Kalispell: No.
Lethbridge: Cheer for the Calgary Flames.
Shreveport: Cheer for the Saints, Astros, or Rockets.
That remind of these on and off rumors then the CFL wanted to put a team in Halifax.
Orlando could now use an NFL team since they transformed the ole Toilet Bowl into the Camping World Stadium.
That's one reason why the city council renovated the icky stadium, to hopefully attract some owner to bring a franchise to O Town.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 02, 2023, 08:52:46 AM
Orlando could now use an NFL team since they transformed the ole Toilet Bowl into the Camping World Stadium.
That's one reason why the city council renovated the icky stadium, to hopefully attract some owner to bring a franchise to O Town.
Orlando Breakers in Coach?
Quote from: Hunty2022 on October 01, 2023, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 30, 2023, 01:19:55 PM
Which cities would be good for sports teams (both major and minor leagues)? At least I think that Bismarck, ND should have a minor league team. Other cities good for minor league teams are:
Rochester, MN
Cheyenne, WY
Kalispell, MT
Lethbridge, AB
Shreveport, LA
Rochester: Cheer for the Minneapolis teams.
Cheyenne: Cheer for the Denver/Colorado teams.
Kalispell: No.
Lethbridge: Cheer for the Calgary Flames.
Shreveport: Cheer for the Saints, Astros, or Rockets.
These cities should have their own teams. Cheyenne could have MiLB or spring football league team, Shreveport MiLB, minor soccer or basketball team, Lethbridge minor Canadian league soccer team in addition to existing junior hockey team (Hurricanes) and Kalispell MiLB team.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 02, 2023, 09:30:29 AM
Quote from: Hunty2022 on October 01, 2023, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 30, 2023, 01:19:55 PM
Which cities would be good for sports teams (both major and minor leagues)? At least I think that Bismarck, ND should have a minor league team. Other cities good for minor league teams are:
Rochester, MN
Cheyenne, WY
Kalispell, MT
Lethbridge, AB
Shreveport, LA
Rochester: Cheer for the Minneapolis teams.
Cheyenne: Cheer for the Denver/Colorado teams.
Kalispell: No.
Lethbridge: Cheer for the Calgary Flames.
Shreveport: Cheer for the Saints, Astros, or Rockets.
These cities should have their own teams. Cheyenne could have MiLB or spring football league team, Shreveport MiLB, minor soccer or basketball team, Lethbridge minor Canadian league soccer team in addition to existing junior hockey team (Hurricanes) and Kalispell MiLB team.
I misread the original post, I thought you were talking about these random cities getting Major League Teams. They can definitely have minor league teams.
Even Kalispell??
Quote from: kphoger on October 02, 2023, 11:49:54 AM
Even Kalispell??
It is a minor to mid-size city, so it would be good to have minor league team there.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 02, 2023, 11:52:34 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 02, 2023, 11:49:54 AM
Even Kalispell??
It is a minor to mid-size city, so it would be good to have minor league team there.
The urban areas for Kalispell, Whitefish, and Columbia Falls total about 50,600. Even combining those would place the region around 505th in population for urban areas.
The Cheyenne urban area is a little better at 79,250 and 358th place.
I get that they have some name recognition as a state capital and a popular resort area, but there are literally hundreds of areas that have a larger population and can better support a team.
Here's a sampling of large urban areas who do not have a "big five" sport (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS), minor league baseball, and aren't immediately adjacent to an area that does have one of those teams:
Tucson, AZ - 875,000
Honolulu, HI - 853,000
McAllen, TX - 779,000
Colorado Springs, CO - 632,000
Baton Rouge, LA - 631,000
Albany, NY - 593,000
Bakersfield, CA - 570,000
Madison, WI - 450,000
Springfield, MA - 442,000
Boise, ID - 433,000
Granted, I did not look for independent leagues, minor leagues for other sports, and college teams, which would take some of these off the list. But even looking at Single-A, there was maybe one team that would be under 100,000 in the market (Delmarva).
^^ Colorado Springs lost their AAA minor league team not too long ago.
Quote from: 1 on September 30, 2023, 05:33:48 PM
What about the Rio Grande Valley? They always seem to be forgotten.
Quote from: DTComposer on October 02, 2023, 01:03:45 PM
Here's a sampling of large urban areas who do not have a "big five" sport (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS), minor league baseball, and aren't immediately adjacent to an area that does have one of those teams:
...
McAllen, TX - 779,000
...
I agree with this one. They'd probably go by "The Valley _______s".
Quote from: kphoger on October 02, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 30, 2023, 05:33:48 PM
What about the Rio Grande Valley? They always seem to be forgotten.
Quote from: DTComposer on October 02, 2023, 01:03:45 PM
Here's a sampling of large urban areas who do not have a "big five" sport (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS), minor league baseball, and aren't immediately adjacent to an area that does have one of those teams:
...
McAllen, TX - 779,000
...
I agree with this one. They'd probably go by "The Valley _______s".
"of the Dolls"?
Quote from: GaryV on October 02, 2023, 02:43:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 02, 2023, 01:15:39 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 30, 2023, 05:33:48 PM
What about the Rio Grande Valley? They always seem to be forgotten.
Quote from: DTComposer on October 02, 2023, 01:03:45 PM
Here's a sampling of large urban areas who do not have a "big five" sport (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS), minor league baseball, and aren't immediately adjacent to an area that does have one of those teams:
...
McAllen, TX - 779,000
...
I agree with this one. They'd probably go by "The Valley _______s".
"of the Dolls"?
"Girls"?
Quote from: Big John on October 02, 2023, 01:08:43 PM
^^ Colorado Springs lost their AAA minor league team not too long ago.
With expansion rumored to happen sometime in the next decade, some former minor league cities could get teams again since those hypothetical two new teams would need a set of farm teams.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 02, 2023, 11:52:34 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 02, 2023, 11:49:54 AM
Even Kalispell??
It is a minor to mid-size city, so it would be good to have minor league team there.
They have an American Legion baseball team named the Lakers and a Pioneer League Baseball team named the Glacier Range Riders (our two minor league baseball teams in Missoula are the American Legion Mavericks and Pioneer League Paddleheads, formerly the Osprey). It has two reputable AA level high schools (Glacier and Flathead) that really give Missoula's three major AA high schools (Hellgate, Sentinel and Big Sky) a run for their money, mainly in AA prep football and softball. It does not have a minor league football program, though if one does come to fruit, they'd be a pretty good candidate to join one. Missoula has a junior Bruins hockey team, and many years ago, they had a previous junior hockey team named the Maulers.
Quote from: DTComposer on October 02, 2023, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 02, 2023, 11:52:34 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 02, 2023, 11:49:54 AM
Even Kalispell??
It is a minor to mid-size city, so it would be good to have minor league team there.
The urban areas for Kalispell, Whitefish, and Columbia Falls total about 50,600. Even combining those would place the region around 505th in population for urban areas.
The Cheyenne urban area is a little better at 79,250 and 358th place.
I get that they have some name recognition as a state capital and a popular resort area, but there are literally hundreds of areas that have a larger population and can better support a team.
Here's a sampling of large urban areas who do not have a "big five" sport (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS), minor league baseball, and aren't immediately adjacent to an area that does have one of those teams:
Tucson, AZ - 875,000
Honolulu, HI - 853,000
McAllen, TX - 779,000
Colorado Springs, CO - 632,000
Baton Rouge, LA - 631,000
Albany, NY - 593,000
Bakersfield, CA - 570,000
Madison, WI - 450,000
Springfield, MA - 442,000
Boise, ID - 433,000
Granted, I did not look for independent leagues, minor leagues for other sports, and college teams, which would take some of these off the list. But even looking at Single-A, there was maybe one team that would be under 100,000 in the market (Delmarva).
Albany is represented by the Tri-City Valley Cats, a Frontier League Class A team that plays in Troy. Springfield not having a minor league baseball team seems like a huge oversight, but I guess Hartford has the Yard Goats and they're only 25 miles away.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 02, 2023, 05:26:08 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on October 02, 2023, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 02, 2023, 11:52:34 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 02, 2023, 11:49:54 AM
Even Kalispell??
It is a minor to mid-size city, so it would be good to have minor league team there.
The urban areas for Kalispell, Whitefish, and Columbia Falls total about 50,600. Even combining those would place the region around 505th in population for urban areas.
The Cheyenne urban area is a little better at 79,250 and 358th place.
I get that they have some name recognition as a state capital and a popular resort area, but there are literally hundreds of areas that have a larger population and can better support a team.
Here's a sampling of large urban areas who do not have a "big five" sport (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS), minor league baseball, and aren't immediately adjacent to an area that does have one of those teams:
Tucson, AZ - 875,000
Honolulu, HI - 853,000
McAllen, TX - 779,000
Colorado Springs, CO - 632,000
Baton Rouge, LA - 631,000
Albany, NY - 593,000
Bakersfield, CA - 570,000
Madison, WI - 450,000
Springfield, MA - 442,000
Boise, ID - 433,000
Granted, I did not look for independent leagues, minor leagues for other sports, and college teams, which would take some of these off the list. But even looking at Single-A, there was maybe one team that would be under 100,000 in the market (Delmarva).
Albany is represented by the Tri-City Valley Cats, a Frontier League Class A team that plays in Troy. Springfield not having a minor league baseball team seems like a huge oversight, but I guess Hartford has the Yard Goats and they're only 25 miles away.
Yeah, I didn't go through all the independent leagues, so I knew there'd be some cities that would have representation. As mentioned above, Kalispell does have an independent league team (as does Colorado Springs and Boise, and I'm sure others).
Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 23, 2023, 09:09:59 AM
Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!
You had the Kings from 1972-85.
These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team. They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league. Some already have an MLS franchise.
Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million
I almost included Orlando but I keep forgetting they have an NBA franchise! I'm not including Providence because it's just so close to Boston. Foxborough, MA is just a little closer to Providence than it is to Boston!
In fact, southeast Virginia seems almost a no-brainer for something. An NFL franchise with a stadium near Williamsburg could draw from both regions. Due to the number of games, MLB, NBA, and NHL probably needs to be one or the other (with the focus probably being Norfolk/Virginia Beach).
These regions are probably just a little too small for a Big 4 franchise but might be able to support MLS or one of the other top-tier but minor professional leagues, such as box lacrosse. Some of them have AAA hockey or baseball, or have (had?) a USFL/XFL franchise. However, I would not consider them completely out of the running for a Big 4 if the right combination of ownership group and municipal support materialized.
Birmingham, AL - 1.18 million
Fresno, CA - 1.17 million
Grand Rapids, MI - 1.16 million
Tucson, AZ - 1.06 million
Tulsa, OK - 1.03 million
Omaha, NE - 977,000
There are other cities in this same population tier, but they're either not growing or are too close to other markets with major franchises, or both (e.g. Rochester, NY or Greenville/Spartanburg, SC).
And of course, I'd love to see an NHL franchise in Kansas City. The SprintT-Mobile Center is a beautiful facility that doesn't get enough use.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 23, 2023, 09:09:59 AM
Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!
Would be better if actually based in Kansas side.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2023, 11:17:17 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 23, 2023, 09:09:59 AM
Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!
Would be better if actually based in Kansas side.
Do they have gulags on the Kansas side?
Quote from: Big John on October 23, 2023, 09:29:23 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 23, 2023, 09:09:59 AM
Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!
You had the Kings from 1972-85.
NHL Kansas City Scouts also in mid '70s, but only for a couple years. That team later (1977?) became the Colorado Rockies (NHL) also only for a couple years, and finally became the NJ Devils in 1982 (have been there ever since).
I keep seeing posts on other social media about (NHL commissioner) Bettman wanting to expand the NHL, but I don't pay much attention to them so I don't know what is being proposed.
Arizona and Buffalo are the two worst draw's in the NHL in recent years.
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 23, 2023, 12:10:02 PM
Arizona and Buffalo are the two worst draw's in the NHL in recent years.
Arizona Coyotes should be relocated to Houston and Buffalo Sabres to Kansas City.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2023, 12:15:29 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 23, 2023, 12:10:02 PM
Arizona and Buffalo are the two worst draw's in the NHL in recent years.
Arizona Coyotes should be relocated to Houston and Buffalo Sabres to Kansas City.
I'm not debating on where they should relocate to but Houston certainly wouldn't be a good fit for hockey. Kansas City would be a decent location. The Sabres should move to Quebec City and the Coyotes should move to Kansas City.
Quote from: fhmiii on October 23, 2023, 09:53:07 AM
These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team. They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league. Some already have an MLS franchise.
Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million
I think the population floor for a new Big 4 team is 2 million - Nashville seems to be a lock for the next round of MLB expansion and it just crosses that threshold. The other candidate cities for MLB are all well north of 2 million in their CSAs.
NBA seems to be a done deal for Las Vegas and Seattle somewhere around 2027 - again, both well over 2 million.
Austin/San Antonio should definitely be under consideration for any expansion.
Should the A's deal go through and the NBA rumors be true, Las Vegas would go from zero to four Big 4 teams in under a decade. The only city I can find with that quick a timeline is Atlanta from 1966 to 1972 (although the Flames would move in 1980 and the Thrashers wouldn't start until 1999).
Quote from: DTComposer on October 23, 2023, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: fhmiii on October 23, 2023, 09:53:07 AM
These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team. They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league. Some already have an MLS franchise.
Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million
I think the population floor for a new Big 4 team is 2 million - Nashville seems to be a lock for the next round of MLB expansion and it just crosses that threshold. The other candidate cities for MLB are all well north of 2 million in their CSAs.
NBA seems to be a done deal for Las Vegas and Seattle somewhere around 2027 - again, both well over 2 million.
Austin/San Antonio should definitely be under consideration for any expansion.
Should the A's deal go through and the NBA rumors be true, Las Vegas would go from zero to four Big 4 teams in under a decade. The only city I can find with that quick a timeline is Atlanta from 1966 to 1972 (although the Flames would move in 1980 and the Thrashers wouldn't start until 1999).
Atlanta should regain NHL team and San Antonio get NFL team. Oh, and Montreal and Vancouver should both get both NBA and MLB teams. Quebec City and Halifax are good locations for new NHL teams and Birmingham for new NFL team. Alaska would also be good to see in major leagues.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2023, 01:11:01 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on October 23, 2023, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: fhmiii on October 23, 2023, 09:53:07 AM
These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team. They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league. Some already have an MLS franchise.
Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million
I think the population floor for a new Big 4 team is 2 million - Nashville seems to be a lock for the next round of MLB expansion and it just crosses that threshold. The other candidate cities for MLB are all well north of 2 million in their CSAs.
NBA seems to be a done deal for Las Vegas and Seattle somewhere around 2027 - again, both well over 2 million.
Austin/San Antonio should definitely be under consideration for any expansion.
Should the A's deal go through and the NBA rumors be true, Las Vegas would go from zero to four Big 4 teams in under a decade. The only city I can find with that quick a timeline is Atlanta from 1966 to 1972 (although the Flames would move in 1980 and the Thrashers wouldn't start until 1999).
Atlanta should regain NHL team and San Antonio get NFL team. Oh, and Montreal and Vancouver should both get both NBA and MLB teams. Quebec City and Halifax are good locations for new NHL teams and Birmingham for new NFL team. Alaska would also be good to see in major leagues.
As interesting as it would be to see Anchorage (the only metro area in Alaska really worth considering) get some major league sports franchise, it probably would not work from a logistical standpoint. It'd also have the second smallest population of a city with, say, an NFL franchise - only Green Bay is smaller, and the Packers are in the unique situation of being publicly owned so they are not likely ever to leave Green Bay, plus the Packers being an international brand more than makes up for their tiny market. A new franchise in Alaska would not have that advantage.
Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.
Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2023, 01:11:01 PM
Birmingham for new NFL team.
It would be among the smallest markets in the NFL in a state dominated by college football, and there are too many much larger markets that would be ahead of it line (Austin, San Antonio, San Diego, St. Louis, Portland, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, etc.), not to mention the likelihood of international expansion.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on October 23, 2023, 01:22:53 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2023, 01:11:01 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on October 23, 2023, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: fhmiii on October 23, 2023, 09:53:07 AM
These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team. They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league. Some already have an MLS franchise.
Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million
I think the population floor for a new Big 4 team is 2 million - Nashville seems to be a lock for the next round of MLB expansion and it just crosses that threshold. The other candidate cities for MLB are all well north of 2 million in their CSAs.
NBA seems to be a done deal for Las Vegas and Seattle somewhere around 2027 - again, both well over 2 million.
Austin/San Antonio should definitely be under consideration for any expansion.
Should the A's deal go through and the NBA rumors be true, Las Vegas would go from zero to four Big 4 teams in under a decade. The only city I can find with that quick a timeline is Atlanta from 1966 to 1972 (although the Flames would move in 1980 and the Thrashers wouldn't start until 1999).
Atlanta should regain NHL team and San Antonio get NFL team. Oh, and Montreal and Vancouver should both get both NBA and MLB teams. Quebec City and Halifax are good locations for new NHL teams and Birmingham for new NFL team. Alaska would also be good to see in major leagues.
As interesting as it would be to see Anchorage (the only metro area in Alaska really worth considering) get some major league sports franchise, it probably would not work from a logistical standpoint. It'd also have the second smallest population of a city with, say, an NFL franchise - only Green Bay is smaller, and the Packers are in the unique situation of being publicly owned so they are not likely ever to leave Green Bay, plus the Packers being an international brand more than makes up for their tiny market. A new franchise in Alaska would not have that advantage.
Maybe Alaska would have a good soccer league in same tier as USL Championship. And a professional baseball league.
Quote from: thspfc on October 23, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.
Nearly the entire Internet disagrees with you, including the NFL's own website. https://operations.nfl.com/learn-the-game/nfl-basics/team-histories/national-football-conference/north/green-bay-packers/
Quote from: thspfc on October 23, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).
Several cities you listed here are in direct conflict with your assertion of Green Bay. Buffalo is a small market team, but when combined with other NW NY areas and the Toronto market, they have a sizeable draw.
On the other hand, and to your point, the New Orleans Saints, while in a reasonably sizable city, have nearly no market outside of their base city unlike most other markets.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2023, 11:17:17 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 23, 2023, 09:09:59 AM
Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!
Would be better if actually based in Kansas side.
I've tried to be respectful of your comments, no matter how off-the-wall they seemed, but this is just downright dirty-rotten meanness on your part.
:-D
Quote from: DTComposer on October 23, 2023, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: fhmiii on October 23, 2023, 09:53:07 AM
These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team. They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league. Some already have an MLS franchise.
Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million
I think the population floor for a new Big 4 team is 2 million - Nashville seems to be a lock for the next round of MLB expansion and it just crosses that threshold. The other candidate cities for MLB are all well north of 2 million in their CSAs.
NBA seems to be a done deal for Las Vegas and Seattle somewhere around 2027 - again, both well over 2 million.
Austin/San Antonio should definitely be under consideration for any expansion.
Should the A's deal go through and the NBA rumors be true, Las Vegas would go from zero to four Big 4 teams in under a decade. The only city I can find with that quick a timeline is Atlanta from 1966 to 1972 (although the Flames would move in 1980 and the Thrashers wouldn't start until 1999).
I don't doubt it'd be a long-shot (at best) for most of those areas, save Austin which is booming. Norfolk/Va Beach would have the best shot with a NFL franchise located near Williamsburg, as I mentioned, to give it a sufficient draw from Richmond/Petersburg. I doubt it could support MLB, and it would have difficulty supporting NHL/NBA, but I think the right ownership group could do it.
The second group I listed was more of a, "Other small markets like this exist with legacy teams (like Buffalo), so the right ownership could make it happen--but don't bet on it."
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2023, 02:03:32 PM
Maybe Alaska would have a good soccer league in same tier as USL Championship. And a professional baseball league.
Alaska's league would be a USASA one, so a few tiers below. The state is part of the MLS homegrown territory for the Sounders since the nearest American academies are in the Seattle area. In fact, some of the better youth teams in Alaska do have to travel to WA just to play fellow high-level teams.
Quote from: thspfc on October 23, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.
Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).
Plus it wasn't uncommon for the Packers historically play a couple games in Milwaukee. I always viewed the Packers as decidedly representative of the Milwaukee market in the NFL.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 23, 2023, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 23, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.
Nearly the entire Internet disagrees with you, including the NFL's own website. https://operations.nfl.com/learn-the-game/nfl-basics/team-histories/national-football-conference/north/green-bay-packers/
Quote from: thspfc on October 23, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).
Several cities you listed here are in direct conflict with your assertion of Green Bay. Buffalo is a small market team, but when combined with other NW NY areas and the Toronto market, they have a sizeable draw.
On the other hand, and to your point, the New Orleans Saints, while in a reasonably sizable city, have nearly no market outside of their base city unlike most other markets.
I guess nearly the entire internet is wrong then. Wisconsin is all Packers fans everywhere, the league knows that, the networks know that, anyone who lives/has lived there knows that.
Those cities are not in direct conflict with my assertion of Green Bay (except I will give you Buffalo). Those other teams are boxed closer in by other NFL cities and do not have a whole state with the population of Wisconsin, including large metro area (i.e. Milwaukee) all to themselves. Basically what I'm saying is that the Packers market of Wisconsin is larger than, for example, the Bengals market of southwest Ohio and northern Kentucky.
Quote from: fhmiii on October 23, 2023, 02:11:30 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2023, 11:17:17 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 23, 2023, 09:09:59 AM
Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!
Would be better if actually based in Kansas side.
I've tried to be respectful of your comments, no matter how off-the-wall they seemed, but this is just downright dirty-rotten meanness on your part.
Put the stadium next to the Kansas Speedway.
Quote from: thspfc on October 23, 2023, 03:37:42 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 23, 2023, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 23, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.
Nearly the entire Internet disagrees with you, including the NFL's own website. https://operations.nfl.com/learn-the-game/nfl-basics/team-histories/national-football-conference/north/green-bay-packers/
Quote from: thspfc on October 23, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).
Several cities you listed here are in direct conflict with your assertion of Green Bay. Buffalo is a small market team, but when combined with other NW NY areas and the Toronto market, they have a sizeable draw.
On the other hand, and to your point, the New Orleans Saints, while in a reasonably sizable city, have nearly no market outside of their base city unlike most other markets.
I guess nearly the entire internet is wrong then. Wisconsin is all Packers fans everywhere, the league knows that, the networks know that, anyone who lives/has lived there knows that.
Those cities are not in direct conflict with my assertion of Green Bay (except I will give you Buffalo). Those other teams are boxed closer in by other NFL cities and do not have a whole state with the population of Wisconsin, including large metro area (i.e. Milwaukee) all to themselves. Basically what I'm saying is that the Packers market of Wisconsin is larger than, for example, the Bengals market of southwest Ohio and northern Kentucky.
This is a skosh unscientific, but if I use the "fandom" map here (yes, I know it's nine years old):
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/09/the-geography-of-nfl-fandom/379729/
And map some of the teams out using:
https://sedac.ciesin.columbia.edu/mapping/popest/pes-v3/
You get these approximate numbers:
Saints: 11.0 million
Steelers: 8.9 million
Buccaneers: 8.7 million
Packers: 7.1 million
Browns: 6.9 million
Bengals: 4.4 million
Bills: 2.6 million (doesn't include fans in Canada)
Jaguars: 2.3 million
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 23, 2023, 03:09:54 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 23, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.
Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).
Plus it wasn't uncommon for the Packers historically play a couple games in Milwaukee. I always viewed the Packers as decidedly representative of the Milwaukee market in the NFL.
3 games a year through 1994.
Quote from: kphoger on October 23, 2023, 03:54:08 PM
Quote from: fhmiii on October 23, 2023, 02:11:30 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2023, 11:17:17 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 23, 2023, 09:09:59 AM
Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!
Would be better if actually based in Kansas side.
I've tried to be respectful of your comments, no matter how off-the-wall they seemed, but this is just downright dirty-rotten meanness on your part.
Put the stadium next to the Kansas Speedway.
Put the stadium in the middle of the loop of Kansas Speedway. :P
Then have a race the same day as a baseball game to create the world's most boring sports crossover event.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 23, 2023, 04:33:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 23, 2023, 03:54:08 PM
Quote from: fhmiii on October 23, 2023, 02:11:30 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2023, 11:17:17 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 23, 2023, 09:09:59 AM
Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!
Would be better if actually based in Kansas side.
I've tried to be respectful of your comments, no matter how off-the-wall they seemed, but this is just downright dirty-rotten meanness on your part.
Put the stadium next to the Kansas Speedway.
Put the stadium in the middle of the loop of Kansas Speedway. :P
Then have a race the same day as a baseball game to create the world's most boring sports crossover event.
Are you implying that this NBA and/or NHL team would play baseball?
Quote from: thspfc on October 23, 2023, 01:32:15 PM
Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.
Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).
As someone who has been to Wisconsin several times in my life and have traveled through Wisconsin on a Sunday when the Packers are playing I totally agree. I've been in Madison and Eau Claire on a Sunday morning before a Packers game and everyone had Packers clothing on. Green Bay is one of those small original NFL towns that hung on simply because the entire state is their market as well as the western U.P. of Michigan. I have also been there on a Sunday before a Packers game and it's just like Wisconsin.
I'm not sure where in the U.P. the line is between the Packers and Lions though but probably somewhere in the middle.
Quote from: Big John on October 02, 2023, 08:57:15 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 02, 2023, 08:52:46 AM
Orlando could now use an NFL team since they transformed the ole Toilet Bowl into the Camping World Stadium.
That's one reason why the city council renovated the icky stadium, to hopefully attract some owner to bring a franchise to O Town.
Orlando Breakers in Coach?
Only if the Buccaneers get tired of Tampa Bay! :rofl:
Quote from: Henry on October 26, 2023, 10:31:41 PM
Quote from: Big John on October 02, 2023, 08:57:15 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 02, 2023, 08:52:46 AM
Orlando could now use an NFL team since they transformed the ole Toilet Bowl into the Camping World Stadium.
That's one reason why the city council renovated the icky stadium, to hopefully attract some owner to bring a franchise to O Town.
Orlando Breakers in Coach?
Only if the Buccaneers get tired of Tampa Bay! :rofl:
I always thought the Orlando Breakers were a stand in for the Jacksonville Jaguars. The first two seasons of the fictional team and real team are very similar.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 23, 2023, 09:09:59 AM
Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!
I personally speculate that once the NHL gets tired of the Coyotes playing in a college arena that Kansas City would get them, assuming Houston doesn't get them first.
I've been to Red Wings games at Little Caesars Arena and can't imagine watching an NHL game in a building that seats like 4,000 people.
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 27, 2023, 08:08:12 AM
I've been to Red Wings games at Little Caesars Arena and can't imagine watching an NHL game in a building that seats like 4,000 people.
That's hockey in the Sun Belt for you.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 26, 2023, 11:29:54 PM
Quote from: Henry on October 26, 2023, 10:31:41 PM
Quote from: Big John on October 02, 2023, 08:57:15 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 02, 2023, 08:52:46 AM
Orlando could now use an NFL team since they transformed the ole Toilet Bowl into the Camping World Stadium.
That's one reason why the city council renovated the icky stadium, to hopefully attract some owner to bring a franchise to O Town.
Orlando Breakers in Coach?
Only if the Buccaneers get tired of Tampa Bay! :rofl:
I always thought the Orlando Breakers were a stand in for the Jacksonville Jaguars. The first two seasons of the fictional team and real team are very similar.
Now that you bring that tidbit up, I do recall the wildcard game the Breakers played against the Buffalo Bills from the final season of the show, and it does make sense that they would be substituted for the Jaguars in this alternate timeline, as in real life, the Jags' playoff debut also came against the Bills in the same round. While it would be nice to have an NFL team in Orlando, I still maintain that it will never happen as long as the Buccaneers remain in Tampa (after all, it is their territory too!).
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 27, 2023, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 27, 2023, 08:08:12 AM
I've been to Red Wings games at Little Caesars Arena and can't imagine watching an NHL game in a building that seats like 4,000 people.
That's hockey in the Sun Belt for you.
A couple teams seem to do ok in the South but it's not for every market. I personally think the Coyotes should have moved 20 years ago as it was pretty obvious it wasn't going to work out back then. They shouldn't have ever left Winnipeg and at that point the Thrashers could have moved to a different city.
Quote from: Henry on October 27, 2023, 10:52:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 26, 2023, 11:29:54 PM
Quote from: Henry on October 26, 2023, 10:31:41 PM
Quote from: Big John on October 02, 2023, 08:57:15 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 02, 2023, 08:52:46 AM
Orlando could now use an NFL team since they transformed the ole Toilet Bowl into the Camping World Stadium.
That's one reason why the city council renovated the icky stadium, to hopefully attract some owner to bring a franchise to O Town.
Orlando Breakers in Coach?
Only if the Buccaneers get tired of Tampa Bay! :rofl:
I always thought the Orlando Breakers were a stand in for the Jacksonville Jaguars. The first two seasons of the fictional team and real team are very similar.
Now that you bring that tidbit up, I do recall the wildcard game the Breakers played against the Buffalo Bills from the final season of the show, and it does make sense that they would be substituted for the Jaguars in this alternate timeline, as in real life, the Jags' playoff debut also came against the Bills in the same round. While it would be nice to have an NFL team in Orlando, I still maintain that it will never happen as long as the Buccaneers remain in Tampa (after all, it is their territory too!).
They also had an episode where they beat the Packers at Lambeau Field. This was during the time the Packers had a long actual home winning streak.
In major leagues of "new sports", such as volleyball, team handball, water polo and floorball, maybe some teams would be located in samller markets such as Kalispell, Lakeland, Hagerstown, Roanoke, Honolulu, Fairbanks, Medicine Hat and Thunder Bay. They would be like Hoffenheim in German soccer - a very small place with very big team.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 29, 2023, 02:35:55 PM
In major leagues of "new sports", such as volleyball, team handball, water polo and floorball, maybe some teams would be located in samller markets such as Kalispell, Lakeland, Hagerstown, Roanoke, Honolulu, Fairbanks, Medicine Hat and Thunder Bay. They would be like Hoffenheim in German soccer - a very small place with very big team.
I really feel like Stanardsville, VA should have a team in that league. It would create a rivalry with Roanoke. Give the small town an NFL team for the fun of it.
Call the team the Stanardsville Golden Horseshoes.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 29, 2023, 02:35:55 PM
Medicine Hat
A new league should be started that only admits towns with names of hats in them. Medicine Hat AB, Mexican Hat UT, Hatboro PA, and Fez, Morocco would all play in this league.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 30, 2023, 12:55:17 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 29, 2023, 02:35:55 PM
Medicine Hat
A new league should be started that only admits towns with names of hats in them. Medicine Hat AB, Mexican Hat UT, Hatboro PA, and Fez, Morocco would all play in this league.
There's a Hatfield, Massachusetts along the I-91 corridor. It would be a good place for a team because all the universities in the area would provide talent for the team.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 30, 2023, 12:55:17 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 29, 2023, 02:35:55 PM
Medicine Hat
A new league should be started that only admits towns with names of hats in them. Medicine Hat AB, Mexican Hat UT, Hatboro PA, and Fez, Morocco would all play in this league.
The French seaside town of Cap d'Agde lends itself to all sorts of mildly titillating notions in this respect.
Derby, NY
Chatham MA, MI and ON
Chattanooga, TN
Hattiesburg, MS
Hatfield, PA
Chatham, NY
Great Cacapon, WV
Capitol Heights, MD
Toukley, NSW, Australia
Trilby, FL
Garrison, NY
Garrisonville, VA
Stetson, ME
Ascot, UK
Ascot Corner, QC
Quote from: Poiponen13-du-Ha!-Ha! the Troll on October 29, 2023, 02:35:55 PM
In major leagues of "new sports", such as volleyball, team handball, water polo and floorball, maybe some teams would be located in samller markets such as Kalispell, Lakeland, Hagerstown, Roanoke, Honolulu, Fairbanks, Medicine Hat and Thunder Bay. They would be like Hoffenheim in German soccer - a very small place with very big team.
You're really just an idiot now, aren't you?
Why on earth would sports that are already unpopular be
more likely to survive in
smaller markets? The supposed fan base is already smaller by virtue of the city size, and now you're going to reduce that to nil by having the sport be one that nobody in that city cares about.
I don't think a small city necessarily means a small market. For example, a hypothetical Xenia team in the Alphabet League would have the fanbases of Cincinnati, Columbus, and Dayton, which is a decent size.
Lakeland makes perfect sense for someone who wants both the Tampa and Orlando markets.
Quote from: 1 on October 30, 2023, 02:25:32 PM
I don't think a small city necessarily means a small market. For example, a hypothetical Xenia team in the Alphabet League would have the fanbases of Cincinnati, Columbus, and Dayton, which is a decent size.
Lakeland makes perfect sense for someone who wants both the Tampa and Orlando markets.
My suspicion is that such teams would end up being named the Cincinnati ____ or the Columbus ____ rather than the Xenia ____, and the Tampa ____ or the Orlando ____ rather than the Lakeland ____, just with stadiums that are a bit far out from the city.
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team. Also Nashville would be a good city to get an MLB team.
Quote from: kphoger on October 30, 2023, 02:41:48 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 30, 2023, 02:25:32 PM
I don't think a small city necessarily means a small market. For example, a hypothetical Xenia team in the Alphabet League would have the fanbases of Cincinnati, Columbus, and Dayton, which is a decent size.
Lakeland makes perfect sense for someone who wants both the Tampa and Orlando markets.
My suspicion is that such teams would end up being named the Cincinnati ____ or the Columbus ____ rather than the Xenia ____, and the Tampa ____ or the Orlando ____ rather than the Lakeland ____, just with stadiums that are a bit far out from the city.
Lakeland has a team. It's just that they're only there for a couple of months per year, and then they move north to Detroit.
Pittsburgh should have an NBA team. All other Big Four leagues have teams in Pittsburgh. MLS also lacks Pittsburgh teams. And Springfield, IL would be good to have major league team too.
76ers should come back to Syracuse.
Las Vegas.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on December 25, 2023, 10:50:43 AM
Las Vegas.
Definitely for new MLB and NBA teams. Charlotte should also have MLB team.
Shreveport has had several minor league baseball teams that have failed over the years. The Captains averaged about 800 fans per game their last season in 2002 before the team moved to Frisco.
Austin is too close to San Antonio, which already has the Spurs, for an NBA team. Jerry Jones still carries enough weight among NFL ownership to veto any third NFL franchise in Texas; and MLB and NHL have better markets in mind already. The Longhorns are Austin's pro team anyway.
Quote from: Road Hog on December 25, 2023, 12:30:03 PM
Shreveport has had several minor league baseball teams that have failed over the years. The Captains averaged about 800 fans per game their last season in 2002 before the team moved to Frisco.
Austin is too close to San Antonio, which already has the Spurs, for an NBA team. Jerry Jones still carries enough weight among NFL ownership to veto any third NFL franchise in Texas; and MLB and NHL have better markets in mind already. The Longhorns are Austin's pro team anyway.
Shreveport would be good to have a team in a new minor pro basketball league. Also, new minor league teams would be good to place to:
Baton Rouge, LA
Lafayette, LA
Midland, TX
Flagstaff, AZ
Tucson, AZ
Decatur, IL
Hagerstown, MD
Lynchburg, VA
Bismarck, ND
Iowa City, IA
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No
They should be called the Hampton Inns.
Hamton Roads Roads.
I've shared this idea for potential locations if the NFL were to do a second smaller spring league, but I don't think it would work in reality.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=19gmv6LjDzVrE7PyvcsK7XD_JR2BqCeA&usp=sharing
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 09:17:53 AM
Pittsburgh should have an NBA team. All other Big Four leagues have teams in Pittsburgh. MLS also lacks Pittsburgh teams. And Springfield, IL would be good to have major league team too.
It takes a pretty big market to support both an NBA and NHL team.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 25, 2023, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 09:17:53 AM
Pittsburgh should have an NBA team. All other Big Four leagues have teams in Pittsburgh. MLS also lacks Pittsburgh teams. And Springfield, IL would be good to have major league team too.
It takes a pretty big market to support both an NBA and NHL team.
I think it's funny how Seattle lost the Sonics and gained the Kraken. It certainly is a big market, and even though neither my wife nor I are natives, we think it would be great for the city to get the NBA back in some form.
Also, you should consider the preferences for one league over another. In Atlanta, the Hawks have been there for well over a half-century and are not leaving anytime soon, but there were two failed experiences with the NHL where both teams relocated north of the border (Calgary Flames and new Winnipeg Jets), and I don't see the league trying for a third time, either.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 25, 2023, 09:19:16 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 09:17:53 AM
Pittsburgh should have an NBA team. All other Big Four leagues have teams in Pittsburgh. MLS also lacks Pittsburgh teams. And Springfield, IL would be good to have major league team too.
It takes a pretty big market to support both an NBA and NHL team.
The ABA Pipers/Condors franchise folded by 1972 and spent one year in Minnesota. There isn't much there to suggest an NBA team would do particularly well.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No
Yes. The Hampton Roads Rhinos were a potential National Hockey League expansion team that was to begin play in the late-1990s in Norfolk, Virginia.
Quote from: Alps on December 26, 2023, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No
Yes. The Hampton Roads Rhinos were a potential National Hockey League expansion team that was to begin play in the late-1990s in Norfolk, Virginia.
That's why I think that Hampton Roads Rhinos should be the name of new Hampton Roads team, which should enter to NBA in next 15 years.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 26, 2023, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: Alps on December 26, 2023, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No
Yes. The Hampton Roads Rhinos were a potential National Hockey League expansion team that was to begin play in the late-1990s in Norfolk, Virginia.
That's why I think that Hampton Roads Rhinos should be the name of new Hampton Roads team, which should enter to NBA in next 15 years.
No
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 26, 2023, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 26, 2023, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: Alps on December 26, 2023, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No
Yes. The Hampton Roads Rhinos were a potential National Hockey League expansion team that was to begin play in the late-1990s in Norfolk, Virginia.
That's why I think that Hampton Roads Rhinos should be the name of new Hampton Roads team, which should enter to NBA in next 15 years.
No
Very big yes.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 27, 2023, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 26, 2023, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 26, 2023, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: Alps on December 26, 2023, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No
Yes. The Hampton Roads Rhinos were a potential National Hockey League expansion team that was to begin play in the late-1990s in Norfolk, Virginia.
That's why I think that Hampton Roads Rhinos should be the name of new Hampton Roads team, which should enter to NBA in next 15 years.
No
Very big yes.
What part of
NOdon't you understand?
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2023, 02:28:33 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 27, 2023, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 26, 2023, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 26, 2023, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: Alps on December 26, 2023, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No
Yes. The Hampton Roads Rhinos were a potential National Hockey League expansion team that was to begin play in the late-1990s in Norfolk, Virginia.
That's why I think that Hampton Roads Rhinos should be the name of new Hampton Roads team, which should enter to NBA in next 15 years.
No
Very big yes.
What part of
NO
don't you understand?
That I think that NBA needs Hampton Roads Rhinos.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 27, 2023, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2023, 02:28:33 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 27, 2023, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 26, 2023, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 26, 2023, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: Alps on December 26, 2023, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No
Yes. The Hampton Roads Rhinos were a potential National Hockey League expansion team that was to begin play in the late-1990s in Norfolk, Virginia.
That's why I think that Hampton Roads Rhinos should be the name of new Hampton Roads team, which should enter to NBA in next 15 years.
No
Very big yes.
What part of
NO
don't you understand?
That I think that NBA needs Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No means no. Don't you have anything better to do than causing chaos on this forum? How fucking clear do we have to be that we think your ideas are total shit?
Really though, what is the point of enabling P13 to post here? This should be consolidated into this "in one thread" or deleted for causing a disruption. Some of us actually want to talk about real sports (or non-crap hypothetical ideas). This thread keeps getting top posted with this Rhino team nonsense.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2023, 02:38:18 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 27, 2023, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2023, 02:28:33 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 27, 2023, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 26, 2023, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 26, 2023, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: Alps on December 26, 2023, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No
Yes. The Hampton Roads Rhinos were a potential National Hockey League expansion team that was to begin play in the late-1990s in Norfolk, Virginia.
That's why I think that Hampton Roads Rhinos should be the name of new Hampton Roads team, which should enter to NBA in next 15 years.
No
Very big yes.
What part of
NO
don't you understand?
That I think that NBA needs Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No means no. Don't you have anything better to do than causing chaos on this forum? How fucking clear do we have to be that we think your ideas are total shit?
Really though, what is the point of enabling P13 to post here? This should be consolidated into this "in one thread" or deleted for causing a disruption. Some of us actually want to talk about real sports (or non-crap hypothetical ideas). This thread keeps getting top posted with this Rhino team nonsense.
The reason is that Hampton Roads is a large metropolitan area without any major league sports teams, and I think that this should change.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 27, 2023, 02:42:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2023, 02:38:18 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 27, 2023, 02:36:35 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2023, 02:28:33 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 27, 2023, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 26, 2023, 03:34:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 26, 2023, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: Alps on December 26, 2023, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2023, 01:57:34 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 25, 2023, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: oscar on December 25, 2023, 01:25:35 PM
Quote from: Dough4872 on October 30, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
The Hampton Roads area of Virginia (Norfolk/Virginia Beach/Newport News) is a large metro area and doesn't have any major league teams. That for sure would be a good place to get a major league team.
Might be too much of a transient military population to promote local team loyalties, with some residents sticking with their former home teams. The Washington DC metro area has a similar issue, but has a much larger population.
And a team name would be Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No
Yes. The Hampton Roads Rhinos were a potential National Hockey League expansion team that was to begin play in the late-1990s in Norfolk, Virginia.
That's why I think that Hampton Roads Rhinos should be the name of new Hampton Roads team, which should enter to NBA in next 15 years.
No
Very big yes.
What part of
NO
don't you understand?
That I think that NBA needs Hampton Roads Rhinos.
No means no. Don't you have anything better to do than causing chaos on this forum? How fucking clear do we have to be that we think your ideas are total shit?
Really though, what is the point of enabling P13 to post here? This should be consolidated into this "in one thread" or deleted for causing a disruption. Some of us actually want to talk about real sports (or non-crap hypothetical ideas). This thread keeps getting top posted with this Rhino team nonsense.
The reason is that Hampton Roads is a large metropolitan area without any major league sports teams, and I think that this should change.
No.
I think you should be banned for post whoring (emphasis my opinion). I think this is needed.
Quote from: Rothman on December 25, 2023, 09:21:25 AM
76ers should come back to Syracuse.
When the Warriors come back to Philadelphia.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 27, 2023, 02:42:50 PM
The reason is that Hampton Roads is a large metropolitan area without any major league sports teams, and I think that this should change.
If you think that should change, then buy yourself a team and move them there. Then you can call them anything you'd like.
Until then, you are not doing yourself any favors on this thread, on this whole forum for that matter. This thread had degenerated into your typical "I think this is needed" bunch of responses, and it is getting very close to "in one thread" territory. I'm not a moderator, so I can't make that decision. I'm saying, don't keep tempting the mods to do so.
As has already been noted, there was an attempt to bring an NHL team to the Hampton Roads area in the mid-1990s, prior to the Hartford Whalers' relocation to Raleigh. The effort was unsuccessful, which might have been for the best because the guy leading the effort was George Shinn, who at the time owned the original Charlotte Hornets but later saw his reputation fall apart after a sexual assault trial (even though he was acquitted).
Nobody else since then has tried to land a pro sports team there, so I'm not sure why Poiponen has such a stick up his arse about it. No interested potential owner plus no suitable arena means no expansion team. Surely even Poiponen is not stupid enough to think a league will just place a team somewhere for free out of the goodness of their hearts. Consider also that neither the Washington Wizards nor the Charlotte Hornets would be particularly keen on seeing their local broadcast territory eroded and would almost certainly demand some serious compensation for allowing another team into the area.
BTW, recall that Hampton Roads did once have a pro basketball team, the Virginia Squires of the ABA. The team failed for various reasons. It's fair to recognize that the area was very different 50 years ago compared to now, of course. The team played at the Norfolk Scope arena, which is far too small for either the NBA or the NHL. It's currently the home to a minor-league hockey team, the ECHL's Norfolk Admirals (affiliated with the Winnipeg Jets), and that's about the highest-level team you're ever likely to see there.
Could Hampton Roads support an NBA team? Probably. It would be the only team between DC and Charlotte. If OKC can do it, Hampton Roads likely could. If you had an interested owner and good enough facility, I don't think the NBA says no.
I don't think it should be a priority though.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 27, 2023, 04:31:55 PM
Could Hampton Roads support an NBA team? Probably. It would be the only team between DC and Charlotte. If OKC can do it, Hampton Roads likely could. If you had an interested owner and good enough facility, I don't think the NBA says no.
I don't think it should be a priority though.
I could certainly see them seeing "no" depending on what other cities were involved in the expansion derby. By all accounts, Seattle and Las Vegas are considered the two cities most likely to land teams if/when the league expands, and I can see a lot of reasons why they would be more attractive locations than the Hampton Roads area.
Some metros large enough for a major team just don't have the intangible "pizazz" for a major sports team. Omaha is one. I doubt OKC ever gets the Thunder without Katrina forcing New Orleans to give it an unplanned test run before OKC ultimately stole the Sonics.
I would think a metro area the size of Salt Lake City should have a Pro Football and Baseball team.
The region supports 2 notable colleges for football and they have several farm league baseball teams with an hour's drive of each other, so "going pro" for the two sports should make it well there.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 27, 2023, 06:12:31 PM
Some metros large enough for a major team just don't have the intangible "pizazz" for a major sports team. Omaha is one. I doubt OKC ever gets the Thunder without Katrina forcing New Orleans to give it an unplanned test run before OKC ultimately stole the Sonics.
Sacramento is another one lacking in that "pizazz". They were pretty close to losing the NBA Kings a few years ago, before they finally got a deal for a new downtown arena (ironically, the notion of the Kings moving to the Hampton Roads area was semi-seriously floated for a brief time, but presumably after a little thought somebody realized, uh, NO). There's not enough corporate money in Sacramento to support any other team though. It might seem like a logical place for the Oakland A's to have gone to but that notion was never given any consideration at all. Sacramento did briefly have a team in the Canadian Football League, playing at Sacramento State's stadium, when that league tried having a few teams south of the border, plus at times it has had WNBA and Arena Football, but other than that the most significant team they have supported has been baseball's AAA Sacramento River Cats.
At the time Arco Arena in North Natomas (the Kings home until 2016) was built in the 1980s, some work was done adjacent to the arena laying groundwork for a baseball stadium which was thought to be a home for a future AAA baseball team with the idea of it being expandable to host a Major League Baseball team. It can be seen just north of the (since-demolished) arena in this satellite view. No further work was ever done on the stadium though, and when the area did get the River Cats some years later the AAA ballpark was built in West Sacramento, just across the Sacramento River from downtown.
(https://i.imgur.com/mM8oKVw.jpg)
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2023, 04:52:36 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 27, 2023, 04:31:55 PM
Could Hampton Roads support an NBA team? Probably. It would be the only team between DC and Charlotte. If OKC can do it, Hampton Roads likely could. If you had an interested owner and good enough facility, I don't think the NBA says no.
I don't think it should be a priority though.
I could certainly see them seeing "no" depending on what other cities were involved in the expansion derby. By all accounts, Seattle and Las Vegas are considered the two cities most likely to land teams if/when the league expands, and I can see a lot of reasons why they would be more attractive locations than the Hampton Roads area.
Fair point - I don't think they'd say no if someone bought an existing team and wanted to relocate, especially since it wouldn't involve expansion. The Wizards might be the only team with a reasonable objection but I think you could argue that Hampton Roads is far enough from DC to be a separate market.
Of course, I don't see this happening. Hampton Roads isn't a hot market for an NBA team and I don't know of any local interests who would be interested in buying an existing team and relocating.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 27, 2023, 06:12:31 PM
Some metros large enough for a major team just don't have the intangible "pizazz" for a major sports team. Omaha is one. I doubt OKC ever gets the Thunder without Katrina forcing New Orleans to give it an unplanned test run before OKC ultimately stole the Sonics.
A good chunk of that was also the fact that Clay Bennett is from OKC, so if he still bought the team in a non-Katrina universe, he probably still would have moved it. Being steeped in OKC culture would have required him to do so anyway, but it was the path of least resistance, since OKC Mayor Mick Cornett was much friendlier to the idea of rolling out the red carpet for the Thunder than Seattle was.