In Kansas City, where I live, I have seen numerous pedestrian signals where, even though they have the push-button controls, the walk sign always seems to appear every time the main (car traffic) light turns green, even when no pedestrians are around to call the signal.
Have any of you seen that phenomenon in your city, and if not there, then where have you found such signals? I'm sure that in many cities throughout the country, it's pretty commonplace - right?
I have seen reports of New York City doing that, as it is cheaper to leave the now inactive push button in place than to remove it.
Seattle has converted quite a few. The beg buttons at these intersections remain in place for people who need audio cues.
One example is Broadway & John/Olive on Capitol Hill. Without the buttons, there's no loud "It is safe to cross Broadway" which would drive people nuts if it was playing every 2 minutes all day and night.
Many places do that during peak travel times, but during non peak, the pedestrian has to push the call button.
The vast majority of pedestrian signals are set up this way, in my experience. Call buttons are becoming solely an ADA feature to help the blind cross safely with audio cues, rather than actually calling for a change in the light.
I walk frequently and rarely use call buttons because of this. They have no effect on making my walks any faster.
Quote from: Rothman on October 30, 2023, 06:53:03 AM
The vast majority of pedestrian signals are set up this way, in my experience.
In my area (referring to Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill, not Boston), this is not the case. I've seen pretty much every signalized intersection in Lawrence and some in nearby towns, and the only times a walk signal goes on without pressing the button is when it's per direction. There are no automatic all-red pedestrian phases anywhere. Even the busiest intersections at UMass Lowell require button presses for an all-red pedestrian phase, even though someone presses it over 98% of the cycles during school hours.
NJDOT just upgraded some ped signals on NJ17 and now they all automatically go to walk signals. Everywhere else around still needs the button pushed
Quote from: roadman65 on October 30, 2023, 04:12:14 AM
Many places do that during peak travel times, but during non peak, the pedestrian has to push the call button.
I came here to say this. The signal at Grand River Avenue and Farmington Road in downtown Farmington, MI is like this. Another signal near me is similar, although I haven't figured out how "peak time" was programmed; it sometimes seems random.
I think it was noted years ago somewhere here in the forum, but there was (maybe still is) a variation at Greenfield and Ten Mile roads in Oak Park, MI. When the first generation of computer-controlled signals was installed in the early '80s, the pedestrian signals required pushbutton activation. The Orthodox Jewish community said having to do so while walking to and from synagogue on the sabbath went against their religious principles. The county road commission reprogrammed the controller so the pedestrian signals automatically activated between Friday afternoon and Saturday night.
Quote from: 1 on October 30, 2023, 08:05:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 30, 2023, 06:53:03 AM
The vast majority of pedestrian signals are set up this way, in my experience.
In my area (referring to Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill, not Boston), this is not the case. I've seen pretty much every signalized intersection in Lawrence and some in nearby towns, and the only times a walk signal goes on without pressing the button is when it's per direction. There are no automatic all-red pedestrian phases anywhere. Even the busiest intersections at UMass Lowell require button presses for an all-red pedestrian phase, even though someone presses it over 98% of the cycles during school hours.
Perhaps we're misunderstanding the OP, then. I thought he was saying the walk signals just turn on with the green traffic direction automatically.
I never heard of a signal that responds to people walking on the sidewalk. However it wouldn't surprise me that a computer geek in a lab somewhere came up with a device.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 30, 2023, 10:01:44 AM
I never heard of a signal that responds to people walking on the sidewalk. However it wouldn't surprise me that a computer geek in a lab somewhere came up with a device.
I don't think it would work. Not everyone is crossing.
It's common in the cities I visit. Generally speaking, if signals are just timed rather than change based on sensors, the Walk signal will activate every cycle. This occurs in most cities, especially downtowns.
With NJDOT and the counties, it varies on each signal installation, but quite often they will automatically provide the main roadway with a walk signal, then when traffic is detected on the cross street, it goes into its Don't Walk phase.
My understanding is that the button in a lot of places does nothing more than activate the chirping sounds of the signal.
Quote from: Rothman on October 30, 2023, 09:12:12 AM
Quote from: 1 on October 30, 2023, 08:05:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 30, 2023, 06:53:03 AM
The vast majority of pedestrian signals are set up this way, in my experience.
In my area (referring to Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill, not Boston), this is not the case. I've seen pretty much every signalized intersection in Lawrence and some in nearby towns, and the only times a walk signal goes on without pressing the button is when it's per direction. There are no automatic all-red pedestrian phases anywhere. Even the busiest intersections at UMass Lowell require button presses for an all-red pedestrian phase, even though someone presses it over 98% of the cycles during school hours.
Perhaps we're misunderstanding the OP, then. I thought he was saying the walk signals just turn on with the green traffic direction automatically.
Yes, that's what I meant - pedestrian signals that change on their own on a regular interval, even with a button.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 30, 2023, 10:39:27 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 30, 2023, 09:12:12 AM
Quote from: 1 on October 30, 2023, 08:05:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 30, 2023, 06:53:03 AM
The vast majority of pedestrian signals are set up this way, in my experience.
In my area (referring to Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill, not Boston), this is not the case. I've seen pretty much every signalized intersection in Lawrence and some in nearby towns, and the only times a walk signal goes on without pressing the button is when it's per direction. There are no automatic all-red pedestrian phases anywhere. Even the busiest intersections at UMass Lowell require button presses for an all-red pedestrian phase, even though someone presses it over 98% of the cycles during school hours.
Perhaps we're misunderstanding the OP, then. I thought he was saying the walk signals just turn on with the green traffic direction automatically.
Yes, that's what I meant - pedestrian signals that change on their own on a regular interval, even with a button.
Other than places, like NYC, where the buttons are provided to assist blind pedestrians, the only ones I would think of are where the button is broken/jammed and constantly placing a call on the pedestrian phase. Of course, I have heard that NYC used to install non-audible buttons that didn't really do anything to try and encourage people to wait.
I have never encountered a signalized intersection in NYC that isn't automatic but also has a push-button. Though, I imagine they do exist in the outer neighborhoods.
These happen constantly here in Aurora. In fact, happened today as I was driving my son to day care. I saw ahead that the counter was counting down from 7, so let my foot off the gas anticipating a red light. When it got to zero, the light didn't change from green and it just went back to "Walk".
In Ontario, for intersections in downtown areas that have no activation, pedestrian and car signals are just timed.
For actuated signals, there's often enough green time allocated for the pedestrian signal to also turn on when nobody has touched the button, usually occurring at peak hours on the road with more traffic volumes (or in the case of two major roads intersecting, both roads).
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 30, 2023, 11:16:53 AM
These happen constantly here in Aurora. In fact, happened today as I was driving my son to day care. I saw ahead that the counter was counting down from 7, so let my foot off the gas anticipating a red light. When it got to zero, the light didn't change from green and it just went back to "Walk".
That's because there's a pavement or camera sensor to trigger the cross street green light phase when a vehicle is there. No vehicle, so the signal skipped that phase and went back to the beginning of the green light phase for you, which includes restarting the Walk cycle. This isn't what the OP is talking about.
I know of a few places around my area that do this. There's one intersection in downtown Melrose that always activates the crossing as well as MA 1A at Canal St/Jefferson Ave in Salem. I've always hated that intersection during my local travels.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 30, 2023, 12:46:54 AM
In Kansas City, where I live, I have seen numerous pedestrian signals where, even though they have the push-button controls, the walk sign always seems to appear every time the main (car traffic) light turns green, even when no pedestrians are around to call the signal.
Have any of you seen that phenomenon in your city, and if not there, then where have you found such signals? I'm sure that in many cities throughout the country, it's pretty commonplace - right?
This is done either because the button is used to add more time (rarely), or more commonly, they used to be functional but as the amount of pedestrian traffic increased, it was determined that it was better to simply give pedestrians a timed phase that occurs each time instead of making them press a button. The latter most famously occurs in NYC, which leads to the myth that buttons *everywhere* are non-functional, even though it was really a NYC-only thing.
Quote from: Bruce on October 30, 2023, 02:27:46 AM
Seattle has converted quite a few. The beg buttons at these intersections remain in place for people who need audio cues.
One example is Broadway & John/Olive on Capitol Hill. Without the buttons, there's no loud "It is safe to cross Broadway" which would drive people nuts if it was playing every 2 minutes all day and night.
The University of Georgia campus used to have a few signals which played audio for pedestrians each cycle, regardless of any button pushes. They might still have some
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 30, 2023, 01:11:58 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 30, 2023, 11:16:53 AM
These happen constantly here in Aurora. In fact, happened today as I was driving my son to day care. I saw ahead that the counter was counting down from 7, so let my foot off the gas anticipating a red light. When it got to zero, the light didn't change from green and it just went back to "Walk".
That's because there's a pavement or camera sensor to trigger the cross street green light phase when a vehicle is there. No vehicle, so the signal skipped that phase and went back to the beginning of the green light phase for you, which includes restarting the Walk cycle. This isn't what the OP is talking about.
The main street phase is likely using "rest in walk" feature that automatically brings up the walk phase whenever the main street has a green. If the side street phase is skipped, then the walk starts over again on the main street.
In Chicago, the pedestrian signals come on automatically without any buttons. However, in Joliet, there are buttons, and they do activate the pedestrian signals. This is due to a ped/vehicle crash back in 1983 where the city was using the automatic ones at Western and Center (https://maps.app.goo.gl/FxzaHbUgNdvXSuAd9) and a kid crossed with the signal. If I recall correctly, it's been 40 years, the signals malfunctioned so that she had the walk signal to cross Western while Western also had a green signal. Henceforth, the city never again used the automatic pedestrian signals and has used the push buttons exclusively.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 30, 2023, 11:16:53 AM
These happen constantly here in Aurora. In fact, happened today as I was driving my son to day care. I saw ahead that the counter was counting down from 7, so let my foot off the gas anticipating a red light. When it got to zero, the light didn't change from green and it just went back to "Walk".
There's about 5 or so programmable options for walk signals, and this is one of them. It's relatively infrequently utilized, but some intersections have them.
I strongly prefer the automatic walk signals because I like how they sync with the green lights.
In most of Salt Lake City, the pedestrian signals come on every light cycle no matter what. Many of them don't even have buttons. I used to always use them to adjust my driving speed on approach to a light (i.e. slow down if it's going to be red, speed up a little if it might be close).
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 30, 2023, 11:09:33 AM
I have never encountered a signalized intersection in NYC that isn't automatic but also has a push-button. Though, I imagine they do exist in the outer neighborhoods.
All redone intersections have buttons installed because of the audible cue requirements of the new PROWAG.
It will take decades for every signal to have them
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53418635218_51f93db51e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2poqtb3)
San Francisco clarifies this by indicating that the buttons are only for accessibility messages.
This mid-block crosswalk (https://maps.app.goo.gl/eRcCcbjUdumdcxT4A) in downtown Dayton, complete with an overhead sign indicating as much, did not have any kind of button actuator 30+ years ago, and doesn't appear to now. I do believe it synchs to some extent with the signals at the nearby intersections.
Look at the control box to the right. I remember when the larger, computer-based controller replaced the old (I think) rotating camstack box; its smaller concrete base is still present. I thought that a more advanced controller would result in some kind of actuation device, but apparently there is not. Perhaps it cycles less frequently based on time of day and days of the week.
Most of Québec City's intersections use a beg button, but a few with higher traffic rates, such as 1re Avenue/41e Rue (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.8415314,-71.2484806,3a,81.3y,262.92h,81.72t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s7qWm27KKLs57ykqD08wLeA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D7qWm27KKLs57ykqD08wLeA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D28.442322%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), have ped signals that need no activation.
When I was living in Washington State, there were quite a lot of areas that used automatic walk signals during peak hours.
Here in Japan, you only see push-buttons if the signal needs it, everything is timed for the most part, with the timing changing throughout the day in response to traffic levels. This is actually pretty nice as, when you're driving, you can always tell how much longer the signal will last before going red or green.
Bakersfield has a thing in the main Downtown area on chester everytime the Light turns green the Walk signal goes on and i never see anybody there and yes there is no button so i dont see anybody at the cross walk at all
I was just in Waikiki and noticed several intersections where the beg buttons are still on the posts but have been disabled. Most of these are crossings of Kalākaua Avenue, the main shopping and dining street. At some of the intersections, all auto traffic is stopped, including no right turn on red per signs, and pedestrians have full right of way through the intersection including diagonal crossing. The white pedestrian light stayed on for several seconds and then the countdown timer ran for about 25 seconds.