Mine is I-70 west of Topeka, Kansas which is flat (rises so slowly you don't notice) and really barren of any tree's. Total sheer boredom and maybe it was me but that Colorado state line sure seemed to move further west. Second place is I-75 south of Macon, Georgia which has trees but very straight and after the busy roads of Atlanta it dies in the middle of the night.
I-10 and I-75 in Florida. God damn is St. Petersburg far away from Mobile. Glancing at the map, you'd figure it to be about a 300 mile drive or so...
I was in Mobile at 2, not unreasonable to show up in St Pete for dinner, right?
If you want 150 miles of sheet monotony, try I-16 between Macon and Savannah. At least along I-75 south of Macon, the numerous billboards can keep you entertained.
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on September 02, 2010, 07:37:57 PM
If you want 150 miles of sheet monotony, try I-16 between Macon and Savannah. At least along I-75 south of Macon, the numerous billboards can keep you entertained.
I know the feeling! The other direction, though: had to catch a plane at 4am in Atlanta...
I-35 in the Flint Hills is tedious to me, as is anywhere else there's an excessive span of space between exits. A lot of people would probably call I-40 in Texas pretty damn boring, since the Llano Estacado is so empty and flat, but there's enough exits there that it makes it interesting, and if you're going west, then the anticipation of hitting the next state helps deflect the relative boredom of the westernmost part of it.
For me it's not so much the scenery that makes things boring, but the lack of exits. As long as I have BGSes to ogle I'm fine. But when there's no reading material, well...
I'm with you on I-70 from ~ Junction City all the way to Denver. Western Kansas and Eastern Colorado are the most godforsaken pieces of the entire country. Soooo borrrring. Last time I was in that area it was night time and we watched some older lady hit a deer and then we had to put it out of its misery, so that made the trip a bit more exciting, but holy crap that drive sucks.
Other rough interstate drives- I-84 from Heyburn Idaho to Tremonton, Utah. That drive feels like it takes forever- it seems a lot further than it should be. This likely has to do with the lack of exits mentioned above.
One weird note- Wyoming is the only state I know of in which the interstates are usually more engaging than the two lanes. The two lane roads are so rural and there's no towns that it's really hard to stay focused. Getting on the interstate is a good way to wake up, something I don't find to be the case anywhere else I've driven extensively.
Yep, I-16 is my choice, especially after dark! I've seeen many a vehicle into the trees, probably cuz they fell asleep.
To me, I 75 south of Macon usually has enough vacation traffic on it to keep it interesting and sometimes a large pita
I-80 in IA & NB and I 94 ND are also miserable rides as flat, boring scenery and few cities to break the monotony.
I 95 from Boston to Wash DC is bad for me cuz I hate the constant heavy traffic, and endless settlements. In fact I actually hate driving I 95 from Boston to Miami, there is so much vacation traffic and insane drivers on this highway, even in the middle of NC or SC it can get aggravating :banghead:
I am SO HAPPY I retired from otr truck driving :sombrero: :clap:, it is getting so bad on the highways the last few years. :ded:
I nominate I-70 from the UT/CO state line to Green River, UT. Compared to Colorado, I-70 in Eastern UT is flat, long and civilization-less.
It's amazing how quickly the terrain (& scenery) changes when you are Westbound on I-70 crossing into Utah. Whoever determined where the state line was to be placed way back when was spot on!
I-70 finally gets interesting when you hit the San Rafael Swell. It's like "how the hell is the freeway getting through *that*"???
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 02, 2010, 07:55:49 PM
I-35 in the Flint Hills is tedious to me, as is anywhere else there's an excessive span of space between exits.
I find the Flint Hills to be beautiful. They look like a giant blanket that has been tossed on the ground.
I-65 in Indiana, especially north of Indianapolis.
I-70 in Indiana from Indy west to Terra Haute.
I-57 in Illinois, again especially northern part.
The entire I-80/90 duplex on the Indiana and Ohio toll roads.
All flat, flat, flat....
I don't like that it takes me over three hours to travel about five miles on I-405 some days. And most of I-5 through the Central Valley is pretty boring.
Oh, god, I forgot. I-39 in Illinois. First interstate where it was so boring I intentionally went to sleep to get away from it.
Quote from: mightyace on September 02, 2010, 08:34:37 PM
I-65 in Indiana, especially north of Indianapolis.
I-70 in Indiana from Indy west to Terra Haute.
I-57 in Illinois, again especially northern part.
The entire I-80/90 duplex on the Indiana and Ohio toll roads.
All flat, flat, flat....
Yeah, the NY Thruway is boring also.
I forgot I 57 in IL, man thats a long 300some miles from Chicagoland to Missouri, especially in a truck with 55 speed limit!
I 39 was even worse when it 1st opened and had hardly any services near it, but it's still a long ride!
Quote from: mightyace on September 02, 2010, 08:34:37 PM
I-65 in Indiana, especially north of Indianapolis.
I-70 in Indiana from Indy west to Terra Haute.
I-57 in Illinois, again especially northern part.
The entire I-80/90 duplex on the Indiana and Ohio toll roads.
All flat, flat, flat....
At least the windmills around Lafayette are somewhat interesting on I-65. My complaint is when you get north of Lafayette, the road is filled with holes. And the part I hate about 80/90 (in Ohio) is that it seems like there is a state trooper waiting to pull you over every 15 miles.
Sheeit!! You have a Ohio State Turd waiting for you every 15 feet!! Them guys are MF!!
My last ride in the middle of the night on I-70 west of Topeka I had nothing to keep the interest except some CD's and KOA out of Denver.
I-95 in SC and VA.
I-4 from Exit 118 to Exit 132.
I-5 between Wilsonville and Grants Pass is boring as hell, and there's hills south of Eugene. Also, apparently, the entire stretch of I-5 in Oregon is a construction zone since ODOT never puts end road work signs, and there's plenty of 'TRAFFIC FINES ARE DOUBLED' signs... :\
Also, ODOT doesn't have a speed limit higher than 65...
Imagine how the people felt who built these interstates!
Quote from: doofy103 on September 02, 2010, 10:08:25 PM
Imagine how the people felt who built these interstates!
In the case of ODOT, probably drunk or high off of meth.
Anytime I'm on I-95 SB coming home from DC from about a mile or two south of Springfield to VA 123 in Woodbridge(obviously due to congestion) and I-81 from US 460 in Christiansburg to US 11/US 220/US 220 ALT, there's always a lot of traffic on 81 and passing the slower traffic always becomes a pain
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on September 02, 2010, 07:37:57 PM
If you want 150 miles of sheet monotony, try I-16 between Macon and Savannah. At least along I-75 south of Macon, the numerous billboards can keep you entertained.
This was the first one that came to mind for me too. To me, a drive like this is worse than the flat nothingness of the Great Plains. Fortunately when I was on I-16 I was riding on a tour bus instead of driving, but I had a real hard time staying awake for it which bugged me because I had never been on it before and I didn't want to miss all the signs I hadn't ever seen before. At least it was useful for county collecting since it goes through 11 different counties.
I tend to have rotten luck with 2-lane (in one direction; 4-lane total) stretches of I-10 in Mississippi; it always amazes me how many slower drivers insist on staying in left lane. Could just be simple bad luck, though ...
I-80 in Pennsylvania, aka the Keystone "Shortway". Control cities you've never heard of. Speed limit 55, "Radar for your protection", back when other states had already gone to 65. One of the two lanes blocked off for miles, so that random blocks of concrete could be leisurely cut out and replaced.
My nomination for Deceptively Long-ass Drive is actually the Wilbur Cross and Merritt Parkways at 11 pm. Connecticut's a small state; Meriden to Norwalk is nowhere near border-to-border. Google Maps says it's not even 50 miles. But it seemed to take forever.
Florida always continues to earn my award for "deceptively long-ass drive". Did you know it is 879 miles!! from Mobile to Key West? And an unfortunate segment of that done at 25mph?
had I made a guess, I'd have said 350 miles, done in five hours easy.
oh Hell no!
you can get, from Mobile, to El Paso faster than you could get to Key West.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 03, 2010, 01:14:45 AM
Florida always continues to earn my award for "deceptively long-ass drive". Did you know it is 879 miles!! from Mobile to Key West? And an unfortunate segment of that done at 25mph?
had I made a guess, I'd have said 350 miles, done in five hours easy.
oh Hell no!
you can get, from Mobile, to El Paso faster than you could get to Key West.
I'm sure if there were more kodachrome and keys shields, you'd complain less ;)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 03, 2010, 01:14:45 AM
you can get, from Mobile, to El Paso faster than you could get to Key West.
Of course, El Paso is closer to San Diego than it is to Houston.
There's nothing like that little gem of I-75 out of Ft. Lauderdale west until the turn..just straight, flat, swamp...
Quote from: realjd on September 03, 2010, 08:13:57 AM
Of course, El Paso is closer to San Diego than it is to Houston.
yep. did that drive about 3 weeks ago. small country!
Quote from: kurumi on September 03, 2010, 12:24:34 AM
I-80 in Pennsylvania, aka the Keystone "Shortway". Control cities you've never heard of. Speed limit 55, "Radar for your protection", back when other states had already gone to 65. One of the two lanes blocked off for miles, so that random blocks of concrete could be leisurely cut out and replaced.
Your points are valid, but I still disagree. And, of course, the state has been 65 for several years now.
That's my favorite stretch of interstate in the county. Not only does it go by my hometown so I know the control cities. (discussed ad nauseum in another thread)
But, I love the scenery and it's one of the few interstates these days where the balance is mostly trucks 24x7. The are much easier to deal with than the average car driver.
Quote from: wh15395 on September 02, 2010, 09:18:38 PM
At least the windmills around Lafayette are somewhat interesting on I-65. My complaint is when you get north of Lafayette, the road is filled with holes.
This was the first thing that came to my mind. I drove 65 from Chicago to Lafayette (this is almost 20 years ago) and it was like driving on the surface of the moon.
The irony, of course, is that I was visiting Purdue to check out their graduate program in Transportation Engineering.
The other problem I had with Indiana freeways, apart from the craters and the monotony, was the dearth of radio options. I have satellite now, but I remember a few trips back in the 90s when literally every single station I could get to come in was either a HS basketball game or country "music".
Quote from: florida on September 03, 2010, 02:31:18 AM
I'm sure if there were more kodachrome and keys shields, you'd complain less ;)
get rid of the RVs choking up the two-lane section of US-1, and put in '57 spec interstate shields from the state line to Miami... oh and get rid of the RVs choking up the two-lane section of US-1.
Post Merge: September 03, 2010, 06:01:00 PM
Quote from: mightyace on September 03, 2010, 10:18:38 AM
But, I love the scenery and it's one of the few interstates these days where the balance is mostly trucks 24x7. The are much easier to deal with than the average car driver.
I would disagree with that. there's nothing like having had your cruise control on for two hours, just to come to a screeching halt and plunge into the median because some truck doing 62 has decided to pass another truck doing 61 while you're already next to both.
^^^^
Surprisingly that doesn't happen that much on that stretch of 80.
Due to the mountains it is a roller coaster profile, so while you often keep playing tag with the same trucks, the grades are sufficient to create enough of a speed difference between trucks either by amount of load or gearing package, that most passes are relatively quick.
And, when you go get a 62mph passing a 61mph. The faster one will usually pull back into the right hand after passing.
All in all, some of the most pleasant and competent drivers I've ever been around.
EDIT:
Also, due to the mountains, speed control is pretty much useless.
yeah, that 62/61 really happens on flat sections. I distinctly seem to recall I-10 heading into El Paso being particularly awful about that. Same with I-40 across the Texas panhandle.
I blame Texas.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 03, 2010, 10:23:53 AM
Quote from: mightyace on September 03, 2010, 10:18:38 AM
But, I love the scenery and it's one of the few interstates these days where the balance is mostly trucks 24x7. The are much easier to deal with than the average car driver.
I would disagree with that. there's nothing like having had your cruise control on for two hours, just to come to a screeching halt and plunge into the median because some truck doing 62 has decided to pass another truck doing 61 while you're already next to both.
I swear they wait until cars pass them. Frog-leaping trucks are probably my biggest enemies in long-distance travel. (That and patrol cars, since I speed. :sombrero:)
@ mightyace: If a vehicle is going 1 MPH faster than another vehicle, and both vehicles maintain their speed, it's still going to hold up traffic for at least 30 seconds assuming they're traveling at around 60 MPH. If you're cruising at 70-85 MPH, it can be rather annoying to say the least. Trucks rarely left-lane hog.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 03, 2010, 10:34:07 AM
@ mightyace: If a vehicle is going 1 MPH faster than another vehicle, and both vehicles maintain their speed, it's still going to hold up traffic for at least 30 seconds assuming they're traveling at around 60 MPH. If you're cruising at 70-85 MPH, it can be rather annoying to say the least. Trucks rarely left-lane hog.
I came home from SC a month ago and there was this truck on I-95 that was doing just that. They almost ran us over trying to get past us. The real kicker was that this tractor-trailer was going faster than us, and we were doing about 60. We were just south of Richmond, VA.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 03, 2010, 10:34:07 AM
@ mightyace: If a vehicle is going 1 MPH faster than another vehicle, and both vehicles maintain their speed, it's still going to hold up traffic for at least 30 seconds assuming they're traveling at around 60 MPH. If you're cruising at 70-85 MPH, it can be rather annoying to say the least. Trucks rarely left-lane hog.
As it is usually the trucks, especially late at night, it's not usually a problem as they don't hog the left lane.
Also, if you plan on going faster than 70 in PA, beware of the bears.
I-94 thorugh the central/eastern parts of North Dakota - when you're not near one of the population centers, it's boring as all get out. Sections of Montana, too - between Miles City and Billings, not that exciting either. At least western NoDak has the cool "painted" canyons. I-90 through central Washington is also brutal, but there's enough on the horizon to keep you entertained, at least.
I still remember the stretch of I-71 between Cincinnati and Columbus (which my best friend and I took on our way to Cleveland from Louisville) as being particularly dull, notable enough to rival my previous least favorite stretch of Interstate (I-5 between Wheeler Ridge and Tracy).
Quote from: kurumi on September 03, 2010, 12:24:34 AM
I-80 in Pennsylvania, aka the Keystone "Shortway". Control cities you've never heard of. Speed limit 55, "Radar for your protection", back when other states had already gone to 65. One of the two lanes blocked off for miles, so that random blocks of concrete could be leisurely cut out and replaced.
The speed limit has been 65 on all of 80 in PA except the part near Stroudsburg since about 1997.
My vote, based on my limited long-distance driving, goes to I-40 between Memphis and Little Rock. Pavement was not in great shape, and there was not much to see. Add to it that it was at the end of a long haul from Knoxville, TN, and it was that much worse.
In the running were I-95 through S.C. late in the evening (pitch black, long, not much change) on the way to Hilton Head; and I-95 from Boston to New York the morning after an overnight snow storm on a time limit.
I've always liked the I-10 "paradox":
- At the western TX state line, you are closer to Santa Monica than the other side of Texas
- At the eastern TX state line, you are closer to Jacksonville than the other side of Texas
Quote from: TheStranger on September 03, 2010, 11:36:31 AM
I still remember the stretch of I-71 between Cincinnati and Columbus (which my best friend and I took on our way to Cleveland from Louisville) as being particularly dull, notable enough to rival my previous least favorite stretch of Interstate (I-5 between Wheeler Ridge and Tracy).
I don't know how I forgot about that stretch. (I guess that I wanted to.) Fortunately, the distance between the beltways (I-270 and I-275) can be covered in an hour and a half or less, it just seems like longer.
Quote from: mightyace on September 03, 2010, 12:27:54 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on September 03, 2010, 11:36:31 AM
I still remember the stretch of I-71 between Cincinnati and Columbus (which my best friend and I took on our way to Cleveland from Louisville) as being particularly dull, notable enough to rival my previous least favorite stretch of Interstate (I-5 between Wheeler Ridge and Tracy).
I don't know how I forgot about that stretch. (I guess that I wanted to.) Fortunately, the distance between the beltways (I-270 and I-275) can be covered in an hour and a half or less, it just seems like longer.
71 north of Columbus is no peach, either. 71 in Ohio in general is a very "blah" road.
Quote from: exit322 on September 03, 2010, 01:43:05 PM
71 north of Columbus is no peach, either. 71 in Ohio in general is a very "blah" road.
Interestingly, I think I've only been on parts of 71 between 270 and the Turnpike - both on the way to and from Cleveland, my friends and I ended up making significant, more interesting detours (one on the way in to visit a racetrack that turned out to be closed due to rain that morning, and another on the way back to pick up a microphone stand in Canal Fulton).
Yeah... there was a thread similar to this some time ago, and I nominated it then, and I'll stick with that stretch of I-71 from Columbus to Cincy as well.
Quote from: TheStranger on September 03, 2010, 11:36:31 AM
I still remember the stretch of I-71 between Cincinnati and Columbus (which my best friend and I took on our way to Cleveland from Louisville) as being particularly dull, notable enough to rival my previous least favorite stretch of Interstate (I-5 between Wheeler Ridge and Tracy).
I-5 is tolerable there since there's hills to the right. I also like watching the 500kv Path 15 power lines there. The new ones are quite cool, since they removed of the lattice structures.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F4%2F4a%2FImg0297New_WAPA_Path_15_500_kV.JPG&hash=617f1fda59f235b91b634e41e65c21717af26434)
The section between Dunnigan and Red Bluff is awful. It always rains bugs, especially around Willows. The front grill of my car had so many bugs, it's rather ridiculous. I wonder why California still bothers with agriculture inspection stations.
I'd have to second (or third, whatever it is) I-70 in Kansas, as well as Colorado. And as with the person who posted earlier about the radio, driving across Kansas is no better with choices of local radio, except there are no HS basketball games. However, I will say that when you drive across Kansas at night, with severe thunderstorms all around and the best lightining show I've ever seen, and with hail falling to the ground, the trip is much more exciting.
I think I mentioned this in another thread, but I-81 in Virginia has to be near the top of my list - every time I attempt it there's enough traffic to preclude use of cruise control for more than 60 seconds at a time, which I find highly frustrating, especially given how long that stretch is. It does have some redeeming qualities toward the south end thanks to mountain scenery, but other than that it doesn't offer much.
I-95 in Connecticut also deserves mention.
For sheer boredom, I concur with the above assessment of I-10 in Florida. You don't realize just how large a state Florida is until you drive across it. Honorable mention goes to I-20 in South Carolina, but that's probably due to the fact I was driving it in the wee hours of a Thursday morning with absolutely nobody else on the road.
Quote from: Eth on September 03, 2010, 08:51:44 PM
I-95 in Connecticut also deserves mention.
I like the ride on I-95 in Connecticut, but the traffic is horrible. Every time we go on it, there is some sort of delay. We always stick to the Merritt Parkway while heading up New England way.
I think the Pennsylvania Turnpike and the New York Thruway are probably the most boring freeways I have been on. It feels like it goes on and on forever. Sure the scenery is neat on both of them but after a few trips, it gets old. I feel the same way about the New Jersey Turnpike between the Delaware Memorial Bridge and exit 8A.
I would have to say I-95 in North Carolina, that state seems quite easy to drive through especially north-south but it's as deceptive as New Jersey.
Quote from: mightyace on September 03, 2010, 10:43:42 AMAlso, if you plan on going faster than 70 in PA, beware of the bears.
You can get away with 75, in fact I've heard Troop T won't pull anyone over for 66-75, but at 76 you're likely to get pulled over.
Quote from: ShawnP on September 02, 2010, 07:23:02 PM
Mine is I-70 west of Topeka, Kansas which is flat (rises so slowly you don't notice) and really barren of any tree's. Total sheer boredom and maybe it was me but that Colorado state line sure seemed to move further west. Second place is I-75 south of Macon, Georgia which has trees but very straight and after the busy roads of Atlanta it dies in the middle of the night.
I don't quite agree with your starting point; I-70 stays somewhat interesting and rolling for a little ways west of Topeka:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.059017,-96.126294&spn=0.02326,0.054932&t=p&z=15&layer=c&cbll=39.058103,-96.137791&panoid=bt3MjWMmCAGo-gKXTxrIsw&cbp=12,84.35,,0,10.06 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.059017,-96.126294&spn=0.02326,0.054932&t=p&z=15&layer=c&cbll=39.058103,-96.137791&panoid=bt3MjWMmCAGo-gKXTxrIsw&cbp=12,84.35,,0,10.06)
Or maybe it's just that I have to suffer through Illinois at 65 mph too frequently.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 02, 2010, 09:58:19 PM
I-5 between Wilsonville and Grants Pass is boring as hell, and there's hills south of Eugene.
o.0 Some of the most interesting sections of I-5 are between Cottage Grove and Grants Pass! If I had to nominate the most 'boring' section of I-5, it'd be between Coburg and Albany, though. And this is taking into account the Woodland-Redding and Wheeler Ridge-Tracy segments.
QuoteAlso, apparently, the entire stretch of I-5 in Oregon is a construction zone since ODOT never puts end road work signs, and there's plenty of 'TRAFFIC FINES ARE DOUBLED' signs... :\
That's a 'feature', not a 'bug'. ;)
QuoteAlso, ODOT doesn't have a speed limit higher than 65...
Long-running complaint, that.
I'm nominating I-10 from Tucson to Indio, purely on the basis of doing a long-haul non-stop drive from NOLA to LACA. And that's going through Phoenix in the middle of the night, so traffic wasn't an issue (was in Tucson for the freeway reconstruction).
Oh, and I-10 through the bayous west of NOLA. Talk about a bumpy drive on the viaducts.
Quote from: Bickendan on September 04, 2010, 12:37:20 AM
And this is taking into account the Woodland-Redding and Wheeler Ridge-Tracy segments.
I did Woodland-Red Bluff once in 2007. Wow! So much nothing! X-(
I probably rate Tracy-Wheeler Ridge a little worse because I've been on it so many times, compared to just once that I can remember for the segment past Woodland. (I probably went on the north segment as a very young kid)
It's fascinating that I-5 basically was constructed to avoid all but two of the big population centers between Los Angeles and Redding, bypassing sizable communities such as Chico, Yuba City/Redding, Modesto, Fresno, and Bakersfield.
I don't rate Woodland-Red Bluff that badly because I've done I-10 San Antonio-El Paso :sombrero:
Quote from: Bickendan on September 04, 2010, 12:37:20 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 02, 2010, 09:58:19 PM
I-5 between Wilsonville and Grants Pass is boring as hell, and there's hills south of Eugene.
o.0 Some of the most interesting sections of I-5 are between Cottage Grove and Grants Pass! If I had to nominate the most 'boring' section of I-5, it'd be between Coburg and Albany, though. And this is taking into account the Woodland-Redding and Wheeler Ridge-Tracy segments.
QuoteAlso, apparently, the entire stretch of I-5 in Oregon is a construction zone since ODOT never puts end road work signs, and there's plenty of 'TRAFFIC FINES ARE DOUBLED' signs... :\
That's a 'feature', not a 'bug'. ;)
QuoteAlso, ODOT doesn't have a speed limit higher than 65...
Long-running complaint, that.
I'm nominating I-10 from Tucson to Indio, purely on the basis of doing a long-haul non-stop drive from NOLA to LACA. And that's going through Phoenix in the middle of the night, so traffic wasn't an issue (was in Tucson for the freeway reconstruction).
Oh, and I-10 through the bayous west of NOLA. Talk about a bumpy drive on the viaducts.
Oregon roads are terrible at night, and I usually drive through Southern Oregon at 11 PM-3AMish. Maybe I'll appreciate it more in the daytime...
Also, why the hell is there an obnoxious 50 zone in Myrtle Creek? There's a subtle chicane, but they had to light up that entire set of curves like it's Christmas, and they recommend like 40 for the turn, when you can easily turn at 60.
Not the worst, but ranking up there was getting stuck in this (http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-interstate-78-fatal-crash-friday-20100903,0,779473.story) yesterday...took the better part of an hour for me to clear it. Had I not been caught in Reading traffic, or not stopped in Kutztown for a late lunch, I'd have been *A LOT CLOSER*.
I absolutely loathe I-70 across Missouri.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 04, 2010, 06:11:51 AM
Oregon roads are terrible at night, and I usually drive through Southern Oregon at 11 PM-3AMish. Maybe I'll appreciate it more in the daytime...
Also, why the hell is there an obnoxious 50 zone in Myrtle Creek? There's a subtle chicane, but they had to light up that entire set of curves like it's Christmas, and they recommend like 40 for the turn, when you can easily turn at 60.
Those are some really tight curves, possibly some of the tightest on the entire Interstate system (disprove me, peoples!) and my dad's seen semis tip over in his rearview mirror there.
Quote from: Bickendan on September 04, 2010, 06:01:51 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 04, 2010, 06:11:51 AM
Oregon roads are terrible at night, and I usually drive through Southern Oregon at 11 PM-3AMish. Maybe I'll appreciate it more in the daytime...
Also, why the hell is there an obnoxious 50 zone in Myrtle Creek? There's a subtle chicane, but they had to light up that entire set of curves like it's Christmas, and they recommend like 40 for the turn, when you can easily turn at 60.
Those are some really tight curves, possibly some of the tightest on the entire Interstate system (disprove me, peoples!) and my dad's seen semis tip over in his rearview mirror there.
I think there's some curves between Redding and Dunsmuir that are worse. And I went 75-80 there without much of an issue.
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 04, 2010, 09:30:29 AM
I absolutely loathe I-70 across Missouri.
Yeah, it's pretty bad. Busy and much of it is not very inspiring. Not the most fun combination.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 03, 2010, 01:14:45 AM
Florida always continues to earn my award for "deceptively long-ass drive". Did you know it is 879 miles!! from Mobile to Key West? And an unfortunate segment of that done at 25mph?
had I made a guess, I'd have said 350 miles, done in five hours easy.
Florida is deceptively large thanks to its irregular shape. The same sort of unexpectedly long distances exist for New York (it's 557 miles from Erie to Montauk), Michigan (609 miles from Calumet to Toledo), and Idaho (706 miles from Bonners Ferry to Bear Lake).
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 04, 2010, 07:16:35 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on September 04, 2010, 06:01:51 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 04, 2010, 06:11:51 AM
Oregon roads are terrible at night, and I usually drive through Southern Oregon at 11 PM-3AMish. Maybe I'll appreciate it more in the daytime...
Also, why the hell is there an obnoxious 50 zone in Myrtle Creek? There's a subtle chicane, but they had to light up that entire set of curves like it's Christmas, and they recommend like 40 for the turn, when you can easily turn at 60.
Those are some really tight curves, possibly some of the tightest on the entire Interstate system (disprove me, peoples!) and my dad's seen semis tip over in his rearview mirror there.
I think there's some curves between Redding and Dunsmuir that are worse. And I went 75-80 there without much of an issue.
Only along Lake Shasta, if memory serves. Bear in mind, though, that I-5 in Oregon has 5 of the nation's 25 steep-grade summits and passes on the Interstate system, according to AASHTO (http://expandingcapacity.transportation.org/unlocking_freight/states/OR_Unlocking_Freight_0610.pdf) (the picture in the article is the Myrtle Creek segment, which features tight corners and a 6% grade -- the 50 mph curves are very warranted). Syskiyou (I-5's highest point), Stage Road, Sexton, Smith Hill and Canyon Creek are all nastier than Anderson Hill in northern California.
Quote from: Bickendan on September 04, 2010, 11:41:25 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 04, 2010, 07:16:35 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on September 04, 2010, 06:01:51 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 04, 2010, 06:11:51 AM
Oregon roads are terrible at night, and I usually drive through Southern Oregon at 11 PM-3AMish. Maybe I'll appreciate it more in the daytime...
Also, why the hell is there an obnoxious 50 zone in Myrtle Creek? There's a subtle chicane, but they had to light up that entire set of curves like it's Christmas, and they recommend like 40 for the turn, when you can easily turn at 60.
Those are some really tight curves, possibly some of the tightest on the entire Interstate system (disprove me, peoples!) and my dad's seen semis tip over in his rearview mirror there.
I think there's some curves between Redding and Dunsmuir that are worse. And I went 75-80 there without much of an issue.
Only along Lake Shasta, if memory serves. Bear in mind, though, that I-5 in Oregon has 5 of the nation's 25 steep-grade summits and passes on the Interstate system, according to AASHTO (http://expandingcapacity.transportation.org/unlocking_freight/states/OR_Unlocking_Freight_0610.pdf) (the picture in the article is the Myrtle Creek segment, which features tight corners and a 6% grade -- the 50 mph curves are very warranted). Syskiyou (I-5's highest point), Stage Road, Sexton, Smith Hill and Canyon Creek are all nastier than Anderson Hill in northern California.
Eh, I suppose, but most sections of that road should be more than 65, particularly through Bear Creek Valley.
Also, that graphic is on the Northern side of the siskyou slope.
Ah, you're right on the pic.
And yes -- 65 is too low for I-5 in general.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 04, 2010, 08:57:01 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on September 04, 2010, 09:30:29 AMI absolutely loathe I-70 across Missouri.
Yeah, it's pretty bad. Busy and much of it is not very inspiring. Not the most fun combination.
I had to drive I-70 end to end back in the late 1990's when I went to Washington, DC for summer jobs, so I discovered it had special tortures on late spring nights. I-70 is so busy for so much of the day, and carries so much truck traffic, that lighting would be helpful even on rural lengths, but almost none is provided. The median is narrow (late 1950's/early 1960's construction) and for considerable lengths I-70 has heavily used two-way frontage roads very close to the main lanes. As a result, you get blinded on both sides.
Missouri gets summer thunderstorms, like most of the South, but no account of this was taken in crossfall design on I-70. Unlike Interstates in states like North Carolina, which have historically had a 2.5% left-to-right crossfall which drains water very quickly and allows you to maintain 65 MPH or better in heavy thunderstorms without using your windshield wipers (as long as you have treated your windshield with Rain-X or similar), Missouri I-70 carriageways are crowned with a fairly low crossfall (maybe even as low as 1.5%)--when the rain starts falling, your steering wheel lets you feel the water wedges form under your front tires.
Rural lengths of I-70 in central Missouri pass through hilly terrain on an arrow-straight course, so there are long successions of rising and falling grades which lead to passing tag with eighteen-wheelers. Back in the late 1990's, pavement condition was uniformly bad except on too-short lengths which had received full-depth reconstruction with Portland cement concrete. Long lengths of asphalt had bad rutting which, of course, exacerbated problems in rainstorms.
A high proportion of interchanges, particularly around Columbia, have serious geometric shortcomings (too-short speed change lanes, etc.) which really play up when they attempt to carry far more traffic than provided for in the design.
The Missouri River crossing at Boonville is an atrocity exhibition that needs to be blown up ASAP and replaced with a valley viaduct.
Quote from: Bickendan on September 05, 2010, 03:42:02 AM
Ah, you're right on the pic.
And yes -- 65 is too low for I-5 in general.
I remember doing 65 on that curve two weeks ago in the middle of the night. :sombrero:
I-80 through PA used to be a helluva snoozer, but give the Keystone State credit for:
1) Increasing the speed limit to 65 MPH
2) Using Mileage-based exit numbers (it was pure hell trying to figure out/count down the mileage to "Exit 32" from "Exit 18").
Although I swear, it looked like we went up the same hill, passed the same row of pine trees, and went around the same curve 25 times in a row before we got through the Poconos back in my high school days.
Quote from: thenetwork on September 06, 2010, 12:13:56 AM
Although I swear, it looked like we went up the same hill, passed the same row of pine trees, and went around the same curve 25 times in a row before we got through the Poconos back in my high school days.
I-35 through the Arbuckles can be like that at night. It doesn't help that there's Exit 49 for US 77: Turner Falls Area, followed by a scenic turnout, then Exit 51 for US 77: Turner Falls Area, followed by a scenic turnout.
The thing about 80 in Pennsylvania is that it doesn't pass directly through any towns of notable size (except perhaps Stroudsburg).
In spite of this, you will hit traffic - there is always construction somewhere, of PennDOT's favorite "let's close the right lane for ten miles while we're doing work on 500 feet of the road at any given time" variety. :banghead:
Quote from: Duke87 on September 06, 2010, 04:39:35 PM
The thing about 80 in Pennsylvania is that it doesn't pass directly through any towns of notable size (except perhaps Stroudsburg).
In spite of this, you will hit traffic - there is always construction somewhere, of PennDOT's favorite "let's close the right lane for ten miles while we're doing work on 500 feet of the road at any given time" variety. :banghead:
This is particularly bad around DuBois and Clearfield right now - especially on Sunday nights when truck traffic is making its way to the east coast!
Wasn't 80 in PA supposed to start in Erie and cross through Williamsport and Wilkes-Barre on its way to Stroudsburg initially?
Quote from: LeftyJR on September 07, 2010, 09:19:27 AMWasn't 80 in PA supposed to start in Erie and cross through Williamsport and Wilkes-Barre on its way to Stroudsburg initially?
It was proposed to follow the US 6 corridor, as the Keystone Shortway was being planned by the PTC on what is now 80's path.
Not sure if anyone yet has mentioned the stretch of I-15 known as the Mojave Freeway... Between Barstow and Las Vegas, there is the city of Baker and that's it. Desert, desert and more desert. The only road in rural, desolate desert. The only, long, boring road to Las Vegas is frequently backed up with traffic, too.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 04, 2010, 06:11:51 AM
Bear in mind, though, that I-5 in Oregon has 5 of the nation's 25 steep-grade summits and passes on the Interstate system, according to AASHTO (http://expandingcapacity.transportation.org/unlocking_freight/states/OR_Unlocking_Freight_0610.pdf) (the picture in the article is the Myrtle Creek segment, which features tight corners and a 6% grade -- the 50 mph curves are very warranted). Syskiyou (I-5's highest point), Stage Road, Sexton, Smith Hill and Canyon Creek are all nastier than Anderson Hill in northern California.
Small wonder that many truckers seem to prefer the OR 58 (Willamette Pass) to US 97 route through southern OR and northern CA.
I-5 between Portland and Seattle is pretty heinous mainly due to traffic and construction, although there are some stunning views of Mt. Rainier here and there.
My first post here... sorry.
I don't understand why so many of you are assailing I-70 in Kansas... I'm from Manhattan originally, and there's nothing like a long trail of cars at exit 303 or 313 going to the Little Apple for a K-State home game.
My worst? I-40 in New Mexico... you cannot turn the sound system up loud enough to drown out the sound of the grooved pavement when they're working on it.
Second choice--I-70 through Missouri. Definitely.
most boring interstate? Hmmmm.... How about I-40 in eastern Arizona? Holbrook always looks like the world ends there. It is hot and windy there most of the time. I-84 in Idaho is also rather monotonous. The farms there make it tolerable as well as the Snake River.
Probably one of the worst drives I experienced was on I-80 heading home from Reno on July 5th several years ago. Traffic out of Reno wasn't too bad but things got pretty nasty when I entered Truckee. Traffic (holiday traffic mind you) moved at 5-10 MPH from central Truckee over Donner Summit to darn near Auburn (approx 50 miles). A drive I can normally make in 5 hours, took over 10 this time.
With regards to I-5 through Oregon, the scenery is pretty spectacular if you don't drive that stretch of highway too often (and I suspect KEK does drive it pretty often). The speed limits in Oregon do suck especially the 55 limit at the California-Oregon state line. After being accustomed to 70 and 65 limits in California, the 55 limit over the Siskyous is pretty bad. I made the drive from San Jose to Portland a couple of years ago and I was constantly warned about the heavy speed enforcement in Oregon so I kept to within 5 MPH of the posted limit at all times (using cruise control whenever I could to keep my foot off the gas).
With regards to I-5 in California, yes, I-5 from the Grapevine to Red Bluff is pretty boring and buggy but from Red Bluff to the Oregon state line is another scenic drive with views of Mt Shasta, Shasta Lake and the Sacramento and Klamath rivers.
As someone who makes an annual trip to Vegas, I can see how people can call I-15 a "bad experience" especially if you're caught in the Vegas traffic and the route is pretty boring (desert, desert and more desert as someone said earlier). The way I get around the monotony is to keep an eye on my GPS as it counts down the miles to my destination and an eye on my speedometer to make sure I'm staying below 80 (not an easy task on this highway).
@ myosh: Yeah, I drive from Portland to San Jose and vice versa quite a bit, so I'm pretty sick of it. I can never get bored of the section between Weed and Redding, though. That's about the only thing I enjoy in the ride now. :P
I've taken US-101/OR-126 (We stop by the Oregon Dunes in Florence, so we don't take US-199) twice, but since I'm not 18 yet, I have to do it with a parent, since I can't legally stay at a hotel by myself.
Almost forgot to mention I-80 through southern Wyoming; maybe it's because I've been able to successfully block it out of my mind the majority of the time. It's not the scenery (which is actually somewhat interesting in its otherworldly treeless and desolate way... plus the snow fences are cool) as much as it is the insane semi drivers.
I DESPISE the Ohio Turnpike!...pretty sure i'd just be repeating everyone elses reasons [truck traffic, speed traps, distances between exits, etc]...incredibly mind numbing
The only place I'd consider a speed trap on the Turnpike is the descent into the Cuyahoga River Valley. Otherwise the cops, which I will grant are far too numerous, are pretty easy to see, and as long as you aren't in the left lane doing 80 with Illinois or Michigan plates, you're fine.
I-69 in Indiana is particularly brutal.
Quote from: InterstateNG on September 10, 2010, 09:22:31 AM
Otherwise the cops, which I will grant are far too numerous, are pretty easy to see, and as long as you aren't in the left lane doing 80 with Illinois or Michigan plates, you're fine.
Of course, if it's around the Ohio State - Michigan football game, simply having Michigan plates may be enough, especially if the Buckeyes lose. :-D
Quote from: mightyace on September 10, 2010, 10:27:35 AM
Of course, if it's around the Ohio State - Michigan football game, simply having Michigan plates may be enough, especially if the Buckeyes lose. :-D
Actually, the stretch of US-23 from Columbus-Toledo is even worse for Michigan plates although the fact the road connects those football rivals is only a coincidental explanation; it was (and maybe still is) a heavy drug trafficking route from the Mid-Atlantic up to Detroit.
^^^
I know that the Ohio Turnpike is not a route to get between Ohio State and Michigan. But, if a OHP officer was being that petty he/she would not care whether they went to the game or not. The fact that the targeted vehicle is from Michigan would be cause enough.
My two worst.
I-80 in Nebraska, from where I-76 ends to the Iowa border. FLAT!! Green, very few towns and the only scenery is farms and cattle. We didn't even stop in Omaha cause we wanted out the state PRONTO!! Iowa for some weird ass reason was more scenic.
I-95 in Maine between Lincoln and the border in Houlton. Nothing but forest. A few exits but the scenery is all forest and that is it. I never thought I could get bored with forests. But this stretch does make it dull!! :banghead:
It's very easy to get bored with forests actually. Though not an interstate, I hate NY 104 around Sodus for the same reason!
I-65 south of Birmingham is like that.
Though, it's not always true forest, some of it's a natural sound abatement.
While not as effective as sound walls, trees are much better to look at.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 06, 2010, 04:39:35 PM
The thing about 80 in Pennsylvania is that it doesn't pass directly through any towns of notable size (except perhaps Stroudsburg).
In spite of this, you will hit traffic - there is always construction somewhere, of PennDOT's favorite "let's close the right lane for ten miles while we're doing work on 500 feet of the road at any given time" variety. :banghead:
Agreed. You can see a great example of this along US 15 in Tioga and Lycoming Counties on Google Street View. When I was on US 15 last year, I clearly remember signs saying "SINGLE LANE - NEXT 6 MILES". I got excited when I saw the signs count down from there. Hopefully, the I-99 upgrades will be done the next time I'm on that road.
My nominations:
I-70 from Kansas City to Denver. Boring.
I-44 from OKC to STL. Ditto.
I-81 through Virginia (trucks doing 60 in the fast lane passing trucks doing 55 in the slow lane on upgrades) although it is a beautiful drive.
I-40 through the western part of Tennessee. Blah country and truck-infested.
I-57 from Mt. Vernon, Ill. to Sikeston, Mo., and I-55 from the Sikeston-Cape Girardeau area to Memphis. Both mostly flat and boring.
My personal list also has to include I-84 between Scranton and Port Jervis. While this may be a very pretty and interesting drive, the only time I have ever been on it was in February in late afternoon with snow pouring out of the sky. I hope to get to experience that route under better circumstances in November but there won't be any leaves on the trees then either.
Quote from: mhallack on September 12, 2010, 08:42:02 PM
My two worst.
I-80 in Nebraska, from where I-76 ends to the Iowa border. FLAT!! Green, very few towns and the only scenery is farms and cattle. We didn't even stop in Omaha cause we wanted out the state PRONTO!! Iowa for some weird ass reason was more scenic.
I would switch the two around, and it's not just because I live in Nebraska. I find I-80 across Iowa to be more boring than across Nebraska. I've heard people who don't live in either state that say the same thing. Not that I think I-80 across Nebraska is particularly scenic. Nebraska is really a state where you have to get off the interstate to appreciate its beauty.
Quote from: huskeroadgeek on September 13, 2010, 02:19:15 PM
Quote from: mhallack on September 12, 2010, 08:42:02 PM
My two worst.
I-80 in Nebraska, from where I-76 ends to the Iowa border. FLAT!! Green, very few towns and the only scenery is farms and cattle. We didn't even stop in Omaha cause we wanted out the state PRONTO!! Iowa for some weird ass reason was more scenic.
I would switch the two around, and it's not just because I live in Nebraska. I find I-80 across Iowa to be more boring than across Nebraska. I've heard people who don't live in either state that say the same thing. Not that I think I-80 across Nebraska is particularly scenic. Nebraska is really a state where you have to get off the interstate to appreciate its beauty.
I agree huskerroadgeek, I've had the pleasure of driving NE2 across the top of NE, very nice sandhills and rollercoaster like roads, at least they were in 1990's.
I think I-70 in Kansas is unfairly maligned. The part of it that passes through the Flint Hills is scenic, and the really boring table-flat terrain doesn't start until you leave the Smoky Hill River basin at around milepost 100 or so.
QuoteNebraska is really a state where you have to get off the interstate to appreciate its beauty.
I firmly agree- heck, I drove US-30 within a couple weeks of driving I-80 about a year ago, and even 30 is substantially more scenic, and it's within a couple miles of the interstate for the first 2/3s of the state!
As far as the Nebraska/Iowa arguments, I think the rationale for that comes from the fact that I-80 in Iowa right by Nebraska is really scenic. It gets significantly more boring as you get out of the Missouri River valley, but when you're driving from Nebraska to Iowa, it's flat, flat, flat, Iowa, hilly!, hilly!, flat, flat, flat. On the whole it's more boring, but since the part of Iowa right by Nebraska is probably the most interesting stretch of the whole thing, the brain ends up perceiving Iowa as more interesting. I'm pretty sure if Omaha weren't there, the Nebraska side would also seem scenic, but it is so you don't appreciate it.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 13, 2010, 01:40:03 PM
My nominations:
I-70 from Kansas City to Denver. Boring.
I-44 from OKC to STL. Ditto.
Boring? I-44 is possibly the most scenic interstate in Missouri:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.817412,-92.187631&spn=0.012883,0.041199&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.81731,-92.188548&panoid=7ob1C2MK4LDoMtP4GGmXSQ&cbp=12,74.35,,0,6.78 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.817412,-92.187631&spn=0.012883,0.041199&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.81731,-92.188548&panoid=7ob1C2MK4LDoMtP4GGmXSQ&cbp=12,74.35,,0,6.78)
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.892365,-92.009017&spn=0.01287,0.041199&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.892772,-92.011211&panoid=wNJ2vPcz2R9RVpVKCK0myQ&cbp=12,20.37,,0,5.98 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.892365,-92.009017&spn=0.01287,0.041199&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.892772,-92.011211&panoid=wNJ2vPcz2R9RVpVKCK0myQ&cbp=12,20.37,,0,5.98)
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.919048,-91.969814&spn=0.012865,0.041199&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.919419,-91.969515&panoid=FRr74qemkE1xf5tMESZ5Gw&cbp=12,209.89,,0,-1.94 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=37.919048,-91.969814&spn=0.012865,0.041199&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.919419,-91.969515&panoid=FRr74qemkE1xf5tMESZ5Gw&cbp=12,209.89,,0,-1.94)
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.497735,-90.710592&spn=0.051052,0.164795&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.500476,-90.709792&panoid=9bKaatDpKJl1ar8qq3W2ug&cbp=12,60.73,,0,-1.42 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.497735,-90.710592&spn=0.051052,0.164795&z=14&layer=c&cbll=38.500476,-90.709792&panoid=9bKaatDpKJl1ar8qq3W2ug&cbp=12,60.73,,0,-1.42)
Now if I-44 was nominated as the worst for heavy traffic and getting stuck behind trucks due to inadequate climbing lanes, I'd agree.
QuoteI-57 from Mt. Vernon, Ill. to Sikeston, Mo., and I-55 from the Sikeston-Cape Girardeau area to Memphis. Both mostly flat and boring.
How's I-70 from St. Louis - KC and I-55 CG to St. Louis less boring than I-44? Both are flatter than I-44, and I-55 doesn't have that many scenic views.
QuoteBoring? I-44 is possibly the most scenic interstate in Missouri:
From those pictures, that looks like one of the most scenic interstates in the country
Quote from: Michael on September 13, 2010, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on September 06, 2010, 04:39:35 PM
The thing about 80 in Pennsylvania is that it doesn't pass directly through any towns of notable size (except perhaps Stroudsburg).
In spite of this, you will hit traffic - there is always construction somewhere, of PennDOT's favorite "let's close the right lane for ten miles while we're doing work on 500 feet of the road at any given time" variety. :banghead:
Agreed. You can see a great example of this along US 15 in Tioga and Lycoming Counties on Google Street View. When I was on US 15 last year, I clearly remember signs saying "SINGLE LANE - NEXT 6 MILES". I got excited when I saw the signs count down from there. Hopefully, the I-99 upgrades will be done the next time I'm on that road.
The US 15 / I-99 upgrades are complete as of last week...this is now a full uninterrupted freeway from Williamsport through the NY State Line
Even before that it was uninterrupted freeway, just not completely finished (even northbound had no at-grades when I was on it in July). There was just some paving work southbound and finishing an interchange.
Quote from: jemacedo9 on September 13, 2010, 10:03:35 PM
The US 15 / I-99 upgrades are complete as of last week...this is now a full uninterrupted freeway from Williamsport through the NY State Line
Excellent! I will be on that route next weekend and can't wait to see it. When I was on it back last April, they had two-way traffic in the northbound lanes for a significant section and work was ongoing in the SB lanes.
I-8 between Gila Bend and Yuma, Arizona. Flat most of the way with only a couple of small mountain passes for variety. Also, I-10 between Blythe and Desert Center, California. That 48 miles seems to be more like 148.
Quote from: kurumi on September 03, 2010, 12:24:34 AM
I-80 in Pennsylvania, aka the Keystone "Shortway". Control cities you've never heard of. Speed limit 55, "Radar for your protection", back when other states had already gone to 65. One of the two lanes blocked off for miles, so that random blocks of concrete could be leisurely cut out and replaced.
I agree with you on that one.
Other ones:
I-76 between Kent and I-80. Flat and boring, like most of Ohio's interstates, only savior is crossing the bridge over Lake Milton.
About 15-25 years ago, my parents and I were traveling to Minnesota (where my mom is from) by way of Niagara Falls. After we left Charleston, West Virginia, one year, we traveled up I-79 to Erie Pennsylvania. That Interstate was so fraught with pot holes, we thought either the car was going to be shaken to pieces or we would have a bad accident.
Can someone tell me if they ever fixed the road?
Least pleasant Interstate drive:
I-64 from Grayville to Mount Vernon, Illinois. My Isuzu cab-over box truck had been blowing its turbo hose off all morning, for the last 60 miles or so of deliveries. After flagging down help from people with pocketknives and nut drivers, I was finally assisted by a lady who had a full socket set in her pickup. Abandoning my route because of the mechanical difficulties and an upcoming mandatory meeting in Carbondale, I started to head back. Even with the hose clamp wrench-tight, I still didn't want to take my chances. So I drove between 45 and 50 mph all the way back to Mount Vernon, where my mother-in-law would meet me with a new set of hose clamps. Let me tell you, it is no fun to drive 54 miles at 17 mph under the posted speed limit!
Hardest Interstate drive on which to stay awake:
Wichita, Kansas, to San Antonio, Texas. We left after 7:00 PM and drove overnight. To be fair, I didn't do even half the driving myself, but I was the only one who knew the directions, so I found it impossible to fall asleep for more than about five minutes. 620 miles in pitch black. We stopped for a long breakfast break, met up with our other vehicle (which had left about 6 or 7 hours before us and stayed the night), then drove 460 more miles to Parras, Coahuila. Let me tell you, I was good for nothing that evening!
Worst Interstate pavement: I-35 in Iowa (various sections) three years ago or so, before they started repaving it. I-35 North between Monticello and Saint Cloud, Minnesota, a year or two ago. I-70 West between Goodland, Kansas, and the Colorado line approximately 14 years ago, when they cheaped out on the concrete construction and turned it into a shake-em-up (it was repaved shortly thereafter).
Quote from: thenetwork on September 02, 2010, 08:10:12 PM
I nominate I-70 from the UT/CO state line to Green River, UT. Compared to Colorado, I-70 in Eastern UT is flat, long and civilization-less.
The one time I drove that stretch, we hit a summer storm. What a sight! It was breathtaking, and one of the few times I've hydroplaned on an Interstate.
The most desolate Interstate drive that I have been on (at least that I remember) has to be I-10 between Pensacola and Jacksonville, Florida. Except for Tallahassee, there is virtually nothing to see.
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2012, 05:11:39 PM
The one time I drove that stretch, we hit a summer storm. What a sight! It was breathtaking, and one of the few times I've hydroplaned on an Interstate.
you must regularly drive some very high-quality interstates! I hydroplaned a tiny amount on the ramp from CA-163 to I-8 about a month ago.
I-70 through St. Louis, the most potholed interstate I've even traveled on. Felt we should put on 4WD in the Jeep even though the weather was mild.
Quote from: Morriswa on April 27, 2012, 04:25:43 PM
About 15-25 years ago, my parents and I were traveling to Minnesota (where my mom is from) by way of Niagara Falls. After we left Charleston, West Virginia, one year, we traveled up I-79 to Erie Pennsylvania. That Interstate was so fraught with pot holes, we thought either the car was going to be shaken to pieces or we would have a bad accident.
Can someone tell me if they ever fixed the road?
Yes
I-80 in eastern PA coming back from the Central NJ meet. It was a torrential thunder storm, could barely see a couple car lengths ahead, and to top it off, three years of being in Potsdam have caused the car windows to fog up every time there's precipitation unless I have the AC on (and the AC was "broken" at the time (it worked, but I'd have a condensation leak after a couple minutes of it being on)).
PAHighways, thank you for updating me on that. I haven't been to WV or western PA since that trip, so I didn't know.
The east-west part of I-295 around Richmond, especially near the US 1/I-95 interchange, was pretty awful for awhile. I haven't been on it in a few years so I don't know if the potholes have been fixed.
Boring drives:
I-45 between Houston and Dallas
I-10 in Texas not in big cities, just boring as hell.
Traffic Nightmares:
I-95 from Trenton, NJ to New Haven, CT. Needs another 6 lanes each way and still that isn't enough in some spots.
I-10 from the East loop to Katy, TX. How do you add up to 29 lanes of traffic and still have traffic jams?!?
I-45 from The Woodlands, TX to Causeway. Again, up to 18 lanes of traffic and zero movement.
US59 and US290 in Houston, two highways that make the Cross Bronx Expressway look like northern Montana.
My worst experience on an interstate was in the February of 2011. It was on I-80 going east to Reno. It was on a Friday after school and we were going to Reno for the weekend.
First, I saw a VMS in Auburn that said "Expect Three Hour Delays." That sign was no lie. Slowly, the traffic was slowing down. Finally, traffic was a standstill. We were stranded on 80 between Gold Run and Dutch Flat. We were there well after sunset. After three hours, they finally let traffic pass through. Later up, the 4WD came on and it was snowing more. 80 was snowed out well into Reno. We finally got to our hotel in Reno at midnight. This trip ended up as an eight hour drive.
When we got home to Salinas, I researched on this situation. I learned that it was an accident that involved a truck that slipped and blocked both of the eastbound lanes. It surely backed traffic over a long distance over three hours.
And this is my worst experience on an interstate. First time I've experienced the bad things about winter weather travel...
Quote from: CentralCAroadgeek on April 27, 2012, 11:38:34 PM
I saw a VMS in Auburn that said "Expect Three Hour Delays."
1. What is a "VMS"?
2. You reminded me: On one of the trips that my parents and I took to Minnesota, we were stuck in traffic (I don't remember the cause) near Indianapolis for hours.
3. As a side note, not the worst "Interstate drive" (although we used I-26 & I-77 to get there), but my worst experience trying to get into an amusement park was once when I was a kid. We went to Carowinds. I got so sick (food poisoning?) on that trip that I was "going off both ends". I eventually messed up all of the underwear that we brought, so my dad (diesel mechanic at work) had to use some rags (clean ones, of course) in place of my underwear. We tried to go into the park 2 consecutive days, but neither day could we leave the car. We eventually went back to the motel for the rest of the time in Charlotte.
A VMS is the abbreviation for a variable-message sign. You know, those electronic signs that. An be changed to show traffic alerts, travel times, and sometimes even amber alerts.
Sorry for going off-topic, I just wanted to explain to Morris here what a VMS is
Morriswa, you may find this helpful: http://www.roadfan.com/mtrfaq.html
Worst? I'd have to nominate I-35W in Fort Worth, especially between US 81/287 and I-20. Woefully pitiful capacity and way too much traffic. It wasn't exciting... it was torture!
As for boring, though? It's come up plenty of times already, but I-10 in Florida from the eastern part of Pensacola to I-75. Snoozefest. Felt like I could have kicked on cruise control and taken a nap and not hit a single thing along the way.
As Mater: That's funny, right there!
One memorable one for me was back in 1976 driving on I-10 between Biloxi and New Orleans. The 20+ mile bridge over the swamps. Dadump-Dadump-Dadump-Dadump as yu went along and feeling the car bounce as it went along (You could watch other cars bounce on the 'waves' The rythmic sound and bounce actually made my wife seasick and we had to pull over. A State trooper came up behind us about a minute later and told us that wasn't considered an emergency and to keep moving (one of the rudist troopers I have ever met and I've met a few over the years as well as some nice ones)
Dunno if it counts as an Interstate, but I hate driving LA 3139 in New Orleans (Earhart Expwy, planned Interstate X10). It's a pain in the ass to use because Causeway just passes over it, and there's no shoulder at all. Wishing the state would come in and at least finish the highway... it's a pitiful excuse for an expressway. Worst part is that on the western end... it just ends.
mcdonaat,
Where in New Orleans is that road?
Quote from: mcdonaat on April 28, 2012, 09:51:02 AM
Dunno if it counts as an Interstate, but I hate driving LA 3139 in New Orleans (Earhart Expwy, planned Interstate X10). It's a pain in the ass to use because Causeway just passes over it, and there's no shoulder at all. Wishing the state would come in and at least finish the highway... it's a pitiful excuse for an expressway. Worst part is that on the western end... it just ends.
Definitely not an Interstate, but you are correct, it has historical ties to the first planned Interstate 310. What is sad about this road is that most highway maps do not even acknowledge that it is a freeway. Rand continually shows it as a lowly gray line.
I had read somewhere of plans to add ramps between LA-3139 and Causeway Boulevard, but am unaware of any work being done to join the two. The stub at the west end is pitiful, and I also thought somewhere I read of a plan to at least extend it to LA-49/Williams Boulevard, but again, nothing has transpired for that.
To add to the New Orleans comment about worst Interstates, just last week, drove on the remaining concrete through the Bayou Sauvage (near Exit 254) area and its still bone jarring. The old concrete in Slidell is gone and asphalt is there now.
Back in 1981 I had a business trip from Indinapolis to Pittsburgh via I-70. Although very scenic, the condition of the pavement of I-70 in western PA and I-79 were horrible. I still remember the large holes in the pavement.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 27, 2012, 07:15:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 27, 2012, 05:11:39 PM
The one time I drove that stretch, we hit a summer storm. What a sight! It was breathtaking, and one of the few times I've hydroplaned on an Interstate.
you must regularly drive some very high-quality interstates! I hydroplaned a tiny amount on the ramp from CA-163 to I-8 about a month ago.
Not the only time, just one of the few times. I may or may not drive on relatively high-quality Interstates....who knows....but, generally, slowing down to below 55 on an Interstate is good enough. Not on 70 in Utah that day, though. Actually, the worst hydroplaning on an Interstate was coming north into Mount Vernon, IL, on I-57, when all traffic either pulled off or slowed to below 35 mph. Tornado warning that day.
Quote from: PAHighways on September 03, 2010, 10:43:53 PM
Quote from: mightyace on September 03, 2010, 10:43:42 AMAlso, if you plan on going faster than 70 in PA, beware of the bears.
You can get away with 75, in fact I've heard Troop T won't pull anyone over for 66-75, but at 76 you're likely to get pulled over.
It always seems they leave me alone if I'm going under 75. I think my brother was nailed for going over 75 but they only wrote him up for 5-10 over.
Quote from: Morriswa on April 28, 2012, 10:08:00 AM
mcdonaat,
Where in New Orleans is that road?
If you take the S Carrolton Avenue exit away from US 61 off of I-10, and make the right onto Earhart Blvd, its right there, a six-lane wide expressway. It would be a huge reliever for I-10, and if it ever connected fully to I-10, it could be I-149 or I-349, connecting via the Huey P Long bridge.
Post Merge: April 28, 2012, 08:19:10 PM
Quote from: Alex on April 28, 2012, 11:11:06 AM
Quote from: mcdonaat on April 28, 2012, 09:51:02 AM
Dunno if it counts as an Interstate, but I hate driving LA 3139 in New Orleans (Earhart Expwy, planned Interstate X10). It's a pain in the ass to use because Causeway just passes over it, and there's no shoulder at all. Wishing the state would come in and at least finish the highway... it's a pitiful excuse for an expressway. Worst part is that on the western end... it just ends.
Definitely not an Interstate, but you are correct, it has historical ties to the first planned Interstate 310. What is sad about this road is that most highway maps do not even acknowledge that it is a freeway. Rand continually shows it as a lowly gray line.
I had read somewhere of plans to add ramps between LA-3139 and Causeway Boulevard, but am unaware of any work being done to join the two. The stub at the west end is pitiful, and I also thought somewhere I read of a plan to at least extend it to LA-49/Williams Boulevard, but again, nothing has transpired for that.
I would much rather see 3139 extended along La 48, then spun up to I-310. New Orleans is gonna look at the evacuation first, and the more traffic you can send via I-10 and I-55 instead of the Causeway and I-10 east, the better. But hell, I-510 is a joke too. The whole New Orleans system is terrible.. orphans everywhere.
I-85 between South Hill and Petersburg. Especially northbound. They left the trees in the median, and the shoulder is heavily wooded as well. It's almost like driving through a tunnel. There are stretches where you can't see the southbound lanes. It doesn't get interesting again until you get to exit 63 (US1) as you enter Petersburg.
About 10-15 years ago, I was heading south along I-95 from Baltimore to Richmond, Virginia. It was probably only 1 or 2 on an ordinary (non-holiday) Friday Afternoon, and I-95 south of DC was a parking lot for over 20 miles. I tried to parallel I-95 via US-1, and it was just as bad.
Needless to say, I gave up, bailed at Fredericksburg and headed west into the Blue Ridge Mountains to I-81. I wanted to go to VA Beach for a getaway weekend, but after that mess, I wanted nothing more to do with traffic.
Quote from: broadhurst04 on April 28, 2012, 05:23:35 PM
I-85 between South Hill and Petersburg. Especially northbound. They left the trees in the median, and the shoulder is heavily wooded as well. It's almost like driving through a tunnel. There are stretches where you can't see the southbound lanes. It doesn't get interesting again until you get to exit 63 (US1) as you enter Petersburg.
I have driven this section of Interstate 85 in Virginia and it was on an overcast day. It is like driving though a deep dark misty forest.
Quote from: thenetwork on April 28, 2012, 05:39:47 PM
Needless to say, I gave up, bailed at Fredericksburg and headed west into the Blue Ridge Mountains to I-81. I wanted to go to VA Beach for a getaway weekend, but after that mess, I wanted nothing more to do with traffic.
Wasn't there any other alternate route that you could have tried?
Worst drive - I-74 between Champaign and Indy. 1998, one lane open due to construction for 80 miles. I-10 through Baton Rouge any rush hour.
Boring drive - I-55 between Jackson and Memphis. It just takes forever. I-75 between Bay City (US 10) and Indian River (M-68). The interior of the "mitten." ugh.
Worst Interstate Drives....
In terms of a poorly constructed, it's I-5 in North Portland from the northern terminus of I-405 to the Interstate Bridge. So much traffic. So little lanes.
In terms of sheer boredom, I'm going with I-5 from Wheeler Ridge, CA to Sacramento, CA. Hours and hours of NOTHING.
Quote from: broadhurst04 on April 28, 2012, 05:23:35 PM
I-85 between South Hill and Petersburg. Especially northbound. They left the trees in the median, and the shoulder is heavily wooded as well. It's almost like driving through a tunnel. There are stretches where you can't see the southbound lanes. It doesn't get interesting again until you get to exit 63 (US1) as you enter Petersburg.
Are you kidding, I love that section.
I think this tree-lined section is unique to the interstate system.
Quote from: Morriswa on April 28, 2012, 07:13:53 PMWasn't there any other alternate route that you could have tried?
Yes. He could have taken US-17 near Fredericksburg which would take him all the way to Virginia Beach.
Quote from: F350 on April 29, 2012, 03:13:40 AM
Yes. He could have taken US-17 near Fredericksburg which would take him all the way to Virginia Beach.
I was on that last September/October, so why didn't I think of that?
Nobody said I-49? Maybe it's just because I used to drive it so much but I hate the Shreveport to Alex. section. Also the future 49 in Arkansas from the state line to Texarkana is super bland. Yeah because its new but the spaced out exits and lack of mileage signs make it seem a lot less than 40 miles
Quote from: Quillz on September 07, 2010, 05:05:13 PM
Not sure if anyone yet has mentioned the stretch of I-15 known as the Mojave Freeway... Between Barstow and Las Vegas, there is the city of Baker and that's it. Desert, desert and more desert. The only road in rural, desolate desert. The only, long, boring road to Las Vegas is frequently backed up with traffic, too.
I have to dissagree, I find I-15 from Barstow to Las Vegas to be a fun drive, when not caught in the Weekend Traffic. Of course I enjoy driving to Las Vegas.
I think it is cool at night when you drop into Baker, in the middle of nowhere and see the worlds Largest thermometer, and the coolest section is dropping down to the Stateline at Primm, when it is dark then you come around the trun at Nipton Road and there is the Stateline lit up. Bright Lights and casino's. Also Calico Mountain can be fun to look at, and I just enjoy it.
I-15 in Utah, that is boring, and long and nothing to look at, same hills and valleys and Mountain Passes. Only thing kinda interesting is the change from St George to higher elevations or vice versa.
I-10 East of Indio for the most part is a boring drive all the way past the Stateline. Only kinda fun if your headed west into Indio at night and see all the lights.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on April 30, 2012, 02:08:21 PM
Nobody said I-49? Maybe it's just because I used to drive it so much but I hate the Shreveport to Alex. section. Also the future 49 in Arkansas from the state line to Texarkana is super bland. Yeah because its new but the spaced out exits and lack of mileage signs make it seem a lot less than 40 miles
I-49? It's boring, but its a smooth road, in my opinion. It's 75 too, but I'm a staunch anti-Interstate guy, so I always take either US 71 or La 1. The 70 mph gives me 18 MPG, the 55 mph gives me 34.
How is that?
Quote from: F350 on April 29, 2012, 03:06:15 AM
Quote from: broadhurst04 on April 28, 2012, 05:23:35 PM
I-85 between South Hill and Petersburg. Especially northbound. They left the trees in the median, and the shoulder is heavily wooded as well. It's almost like driving through a tunnel. There are stretches where you can't see the southbound lanes. It doesn't get interesting again until you get to exit 63 (US1) as you enter Petersburg.
Are you kidding, I love that section.
I think this tree-lined section is unique to the interstate system.
Florida has a number of tree-lined sections (I-95 through Volusia County for instance), and most of I-95 through SC is like that also.
Quote from: Interstate Trav on April 30, 2012, 03:30:30 PM
I have to dissagree, I find I-15 from Barstow to Las Vegas to be a fun drive, when not caught in the Weekend Traffic. Of course I enjoy driving to Las Vegas.
I think it is cool at night when you drop into Baker, in the middle of nowhere and see the worlds Largest thermometer, and the coolest section is dropping down to the Stateline at Primm, when it is dark then you come around the trun at Nipton Road and there is the Stateline lit up. Bright Lights and casino's. Also Calico Mountain can be fun to look at, and I just enjoy it.
I'm torn on this one. I agree with Quillz that the drive is kind of boring after leaving Barstow and boredom is kind of dangerous when you're doing 80 across the desert which is why I avoid driving I-15 at night. I also don't appreciate being tailgated at 80 MPH... in the right lane... by an 18-wheeler! :-o
On the other hand, if you happen to be driving on I-15 a day or two after it rains, the wildflowers that spring up in the desert make the landscape quite pretty. I've been lucky enough to see this on more than one occasion on my trips to Las Vegas.
Quote from: Coelacanth on September 03, 2010, 10:19:38 AM
Quote from: wh15395 on September 02, 2010, 09:18:38 PM
At least the windmills around Lafayette are somewhat interesting on I-65. My complaint is when you get north of Lafayette, the road is filled with holes.
This was the first thing that came to my mind. I drove 65 from Chicago to Lafayette (this is almost 20 years ago) and it was like driving on the surface of the moon.
The irony, of course, is that I was visiting Purdue to check out their graduate program in Transportation Engineering.
The other problem I had with Indiana freeways, apart from the craters and the monotony, was the dearth of radio options. I have satellite now, but I remember a few trips back in the 90s when literally every single station I could get to come in was either a HS basketball game or country "music".
I take it you were going through IN on a Friday night.
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 30, 2012, 04:40:56 PMI also don't appreciate being tailgated at 80 MPH... in the right lane... by an 18-wheeler! :-o
rather have them going 80 than 50...
Quote from: mcdonaat on April 30, 2012, 04:29:37 PM
I-49? It's boring, but its a smooth road, in my opinion. It's 75 too, but I'm a staunch anti-Interstate guy, so I always take either US 71 or La 1. The 70 mph gives me 18 MPG, the 55 mph gives me 34.
that is one Hell of a divergence. when I do 55mph I get maybe 29mpg. 75, 24 or so.
I84 from Waterbury CT to Danbury CT. It may only be 20 miles or so but it seems like a hundred.
I495 from Hudson MA to Salisbury where you catch I95. I hate that stretch of road.
Although not technically an interstate, the NJ Turnpike from Exit 8A down to Exit 1. Absolutely nothing to see. At least the northern half of the Turnpike has a few things to look at.
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 30, 2012, 04:40:56 PM
Quote from: Interstate Trav on April 30, 2012, 03:30:30 PM
I have to dissagree, I find I-15 from Barstow to Las Vegas to be a fun drive, when not caught in the Weekend Traffic. Of course I enjoy driving to Las Vegas.
I think it is cool at night when you drop into Baker, in the middle of nowhere and see the worlds Largest thermometer, and the coolest section is dropping down to the Stateline at Primm, when it is dark then you come around the trun at Nipton Road and there is the Stateline lit up. Bright Lights and casino's. Also Calico Mountain can be fun to look at, and I just enjoy it.
I'm torn on this one. I agree with Quillz that the drive is kind of boring after leaving Barstow and boredom is kind of dangerous when you're doing 80 across the desert which is why I avoid driving I-15 at night. I also don't appreciate being tailgated at 80 MPH... in the right lane... by an 18-wheeler! :-o
On the other hand, if you happen to be driving on I-15 a day or two after it rains, the wildflowers that spring up in the desert make the landscape quite pretty. I've been lucky enough to see this on more than one occasion on my trips to Las Vegas.
For me it's also a mixture of the Billboards for Las Vegas, and my excitement to see Las Vegas on mileage and overhead signs. But I always have enjoyed going out there on vacation. Also just the landmarks along the freeway, Worlds Largest Thermometer, Lake Dolores, Calico Mountain.
Something about listening to Led Zepelin cruising out there to do some gambling and eating out.
I actually got pictures after a storm of a Rainbow in the Shadow Valley, the valley bewteen Halloran Summit and Mountain Pass.
Also who can forget the endless billboards for Peggy Sues Diner in Yermo or the Mad Greek Cafe in Baker.
So as far as novielty I don't see why people don't enjoy it a little more.
I'm one that does 70 mph in the right lane, and I do agree that freeway is one of the worst for tailgaters. Almost can get run over, used to always joke that people can't wait to get to Las Vegas to loose all there money.
On a side note I-15 from Ontario to Barstow can be fun too with the Cajon Pass.
Quote from: Perfxion on April 27, 2012, 10:56:38 PM
I-10 in Texas not in big cities, just boring as hell.
The stretch from Junction to San Antonio is quite scenic.
I drove down I-91 from I-93's northern terminus to I-89 in Vermont at the end of summer 2002, the weekend before school started. The entire Northeast, more or less, had a horrible drought that summer and it was hotter than usual. The only things green were the trees, although some of those were dying. Basically all other vegetation was dead and scorched. Combine that with the extremely old pavement that was wearing through to the level of pavement underneath in large swaths, the extremely worn, nearly unreadable (back then!) Phase I signs, and the extremely low amount of traffic and I felt like I was driving in an abandoned wasteland, almost like I was the last person on Earth after the apocalypse had passed or something. What I did for leisure, I ended up wanting to get to the end of very quickly. I was overjoyed when I hit White River Junction.
It Actually took longer for me to go up to the end of I-93 from NH 101, but it seemed to take at least twice as long to trek from that point on I-91 down to WRJ.
Worst: I-55 between Hammond and the Mississippi line and between Byram and I-20 in Jackson...before they reconstructed them. Both stretches were bumpy as hell.
Boring: I-20 from I-10 to Midland-Odessa and I-65 between Mobile and Montgomery.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 30, 2012, 07:00:26 PM
that is one Hell of a divergence. when I do 55mph I get maybe 29mpg. 75, 24 or so.
That's about what I get, plus 10. :D
Worst interstate for me... I-65 south of Montgomery, AL is so boring I've gotten several tickets there just trying to get it over with. As if it weren't bad enough, they've recently stuck a 10-mile-long 50MPH construction zone speed trap in the middle of it. I've yet to see any workers in it.
I-55 in MS (all of it, except a brief break in Jackson) is pretty boring, too, with the added problem of the road itself being old and in poor shape.
Also, just last week I finally got around to fulfilling my goal of driving all 840 miles of the Chicago to New York linked turnpikes (90, 80, 76, 276, 95). I think more of those miles had orange cones up than not, including reduced speed limits, some single lanes, and some complete stops thrown in. Added at least an hour, maybe two, to what should've been a pretty smooth cruise. Got a nice collection of toll tickets out of it, though.
And, of course, I-278 in NY continues to get my award for most undeserved interstate highway designation.
Quote from: MrDisco99 on May 02, 2012, 08:57:11 AM
Worst interstate for me... I-65 south of Montgomery, AL is so boring I've gotten several tickets there just trying to get it over with. As if it weren't bad enough, they've recently stuck a 10-mile-long 50MPH construction zone speed trap in the middle of it. I've yet to see any workers in it.
Just had to chime in on this again, as that stretch of I-65 ranks as my most boring of any stretch driven. I encountered that 50 mph speed limit stretch for resurfacing a few weeks ago, and like you, saw no workers. Fortunately by the time I got out of it, everyone was traveling at 70-75 mph. ALDOT must have amended their policy on construction zone speed limits a few years ago, because now the default is 50 mph. When they did an almost year long "slide corrections" project on I-10 in Baldwin County, it was set at 50 mph, even though ALL of the work took place beyond the shoulder. The current widening of I-10 between Exits 15 and 17 also sees a 50 mph speed limit.
Back to that stretch of I-65, it used to be that you could easily maintain 80-85 mph between Montgomery and Satsuma (where US 43 meets I-65), but I have noted many more state troopers along that stretch. The same can be said for I-10 in Baldwin and Mobile Counties (outside of the urban/suburban areas). Mobile County is heavily enforced now by Mobile County Sheriff's department and state troopers. I would not advise doing anymore than 72 on the stretch west of Mobile. It is hit or miss in Baldwin, but troopers or Loxley Police (which are not supposed to have jurisdiction on I-10 per an ALDOT correspondence I made, but patrol it anyway) lurk in the forested median periodically east of Exit 38. All of these stretches are somewhat boring as well.
There has been mention of I-10 between Pensacola and Jacksonville, sans the Tallahassee stretch. At least with this boring stretch, traffic counts are lower (especially with the number of trucks), and speed enforcement is not as rigid as it could be.
I'll agree as well on that section of I-65 south of Montgomery.
Tennessee likes those tree walls as well. Parts of I-24 between Murfreesboro and Chattanooga and parts of I-65.
Quote from: allniter89 on September 02, 2010, 07:58:00 PM
.... even in the middle of NC or SC it can get aggravating :banghead:
I-40 East of I-95 is a snoozer, but just to the north taking (I know it's not an interstate, but...) US 264 is the WORSTTTTTT from Zebulon to Wilson...
My father hates the Ohio Turnpike.
My personal least favorite has to be I-75 between Macon and the Florida line. Almost every single interchange looks exactly the same.
interstate 80 in pennsylvania
Quote from: sr641 on May 07, 2012, 06:30:37 AM
interstate 80 in pennsylvania
Why? At least there is some pretty nice scenery across PA. A couple of downsides to I 80 are it can be nasty in the winter and it's a loong way across PA.
Quote from: allniter89 on May 07, 2012, 07:11:23 PM
Quote from: sr641 on May 07, 2012, 06:30:37 AM
interstate 80 in pennsylvania
Why? At least there is some pretty nice scenery across PA. A couple of downsides to I 80 are it can be nasty in the winter and it's a loong way across PA.
I like going on i76 in pennsylvania bacause of the tunnels.
Quote from: allniter89 on May 07, 2012, 07:11:23 PM
Quote from: sr641 on May 07, 2012, 06:30:37 AM
interstate 80 in pennsylvania
Why? At least there is some pretty nice scenery across PA. A couple of downsides to I 80 are it can be nasty in the winter and it's a loong way across PA.
Actually I-80 is among my worst Interstate drives, due to having to deal with trucks, unpredictable breakdowns, and 50 miles between usable exits at random places.
Every day along I-4.
Pretty much a tie between:
I-59 from I-12 in Louisiana to Birmingham
I-16 and I-75 from Savannah to Atlanta, although I drove that from about 12-4 AM after a friend's wedding in Hilton Head, SC trying to make the 49ers-Falcons game the next day. Brutal!
I-40 from Arkansas to LA was pretty desolate, save Oklahoma City, Albuquerque, and Flagstaff. The only redeeming quality was I was driving it with a good friend, and we were driving from South Carolina to LA so we were in the mindset that it was going to be a long drive. I feel like the 6-7 hour trips where you're just ready to get to your destination are MUCH worse than the multi-day trips where you know you won't be anywhere for a while.
Quote from: the49erfan15 on June 09, 2012, 06:21:55 PM
Pretty much a tie between:
I-59 from I-12 in Louisiana to Birmingham
I-16 and I-75 from Savannah to Atlanta, although I drove that from about 12-4 AM after a friend's wedding in Hilton Head, SC trying to make the 49ers-Falcons game the next day. Brutal!
I-40 from Arkansas to LA was pretty desolate, save Oklahoma City, Albuquerque, and Flagstaff. The only redeeming quality was I was driving it with a good friend, and we were driving from South Carolina to LA so we were in the mindset that it was going to be a long drive. I feel like the 6-7 hour trips where you're just ready to get to your destination are MUCH worse than the multi-day trips where you know you won't be anywhere for a while.
I always thought that I-40 was nice. I drove it from Tucumcari, NM west to Kingman, AZ and found the drive nice. Plus many truckers and one bus driver once told me that is the best cross country road.
I have driven I-10 from I-75 to New Orleans in the day, the other was at night from Lafayette to New Orleans, and thought that drive is the most boring. Plus what I hear about Texas is not too good either, especially from El Paso to San Antonio. With it being almost 900 miles (that is more than from the state line at either end to the nearest terminus) that alone would tell you something. I know this topic is about what we have been on and the last sentence is hearsay, still you cannot help take note of that compared to what you have been on making a conclusion.
I had to drive from Albuquerque to El Paso on I-25. Its only a 270 mile trip but, I-25 at night in pitch blackness made it feel like it was 600 miles. My eyes were straining because it was so dark. Felt like it took forever to get there. Then to top it off, I drove through the worst thunderstorm in my life once I reached El Paso!
Funny, my clinch of I-84 in PA was just like that!
Quote from: Steve on May 07, 2012, 09:18:16 PM
Quote from: allniter89 on May 07, 2012, 07:11:23 PM
Quote from: sr641 on May 07, 2012, 06:30:37 AM
interstate 80 in pennsylvania
Why? At least there is some pretty nice scenery across PA. A couple of downsides to I 80 are it can be nasty in the winter and it's a loong way across PA.
Actually I-80 is among my worst Interstate drives, due to having to deal with trucks, unpredictable breakdowns, and 50 miles between usable exits at random places.
Actually the trucks are why I-80 in PA is one of my BEST interstate drives. The truckers are much more sane and predictable than 4 wheelers these days.
And, 50 miles between usable exits, I think your exaggerating to make a point.
A quick services list on I-80 in PA:
Exit 2 (I-376, PA 760): Gas Stations, Motels and the original Quaker Steak and Lube
Exit 15 (US 19): Gas stations
Exit 28 (PA 8 ): Truck stops (24 hour)
Exit 42 (PA 38): Truck stop (24 hour)
Exit 60 (PA 66 North): Gas stations
Exit 62 (PA 68): Gas stations (24 hour), WalMart (24 hour), Eat 'n Park (24 hour), Motels, Clarion Mall, other restaurants
Exit 78 (PA 36): Truck stops (24 hour), Sheetz (24 hour), Motels, Restaurants
Exit 86 (Reynoldsville): Truck stop
Exit 97: (US 219): Truck stop (24 hour), Sheetz Travel Center (24 hour), Restaurants including Dutch Pantry
Exit 101 (PA 255): Restaurants, Motels, DuBois Mall
Exit 120 (PA 879): Sheetz (24 hour), Wal Mart (24 hour), Gas stations, Restaurants including Dutch Pantry
Exit 133 (PA 53): Truck Stop, Gas station
Exit 147 (PA 144): Truck Stops (24 hour)
Exit 158 (PA 150): Truck Stops (24 hour), Gas Stations, Restaurants
Exit 161 (I-99 South, US 220 South, PA 26): Gas stations
Exit 173 (PA 64): Truck stops (24 hour), Gas Stations, Restaurants
Exit 185 (PA 477): Gas Station
Exit 192 (PA 880): Truck stop (24 hour), Gas Station
Exit 210 (US 15): Gas stations, restaurant
Exit 215 (PA 254): Truck stops (24 hour)
Exit 224 (PA 54): Motels, Gas Stations (24 hour), Restaurants
Exit 234 (PA 42): Truck stop (24 hour), Gas station, WalMart (24 hour), Motels, Columbia Mall
Exit 236 (PA 487): Gas station, Restaurants
Exit 241 (US 11): Gas station, Restaurant, Motel
Exit 242 (PA 339): Truck stops (24 hour), Gas stations, Restaurants
Exit 256 (PA 93): Truck stop (24 hour), Restaurants, Motel
Exit 262 (PA 309): Gas stations
Exit 273 (PA 437, 940): Gas stations, Restaurants
Exit 277 (I-476, PA 940): WaWa Food Market (24 hour), Gas stations, Motels
Exit 284 (PA 115): Gas Station
Exit 299 (PA 715): Gas Stations, Restaurants
Exit 302 (PA 33): Truck Stops (24 hour), Gas stations (24 hour), Restaurants
Exit 305 (Bus US 209): Downtown Stroudsburg including Gas Stations (24 hours), WalMart (24 hour), Restaurants
Mile 311: Delaware Water Gap Toll Barrier
Nothing on that list is more than 18 miles apart. Even looking at 24 hour only nothing is over 30 miles. Plenty of stuff if you know where to look.
I-71 in Ohio is one of the worst. Not much scenery south of Columbus and often little room to maneuver, especially in the sections that are still 4 lane instead of 6.
Quote from: mightyace on June 14, 2012, 01:17:35 PM
Actually the trucks are why I-80 in PA is one of my BEST interstate drives. The truckers are much more sane and predictable than 4 wheelers these days.
you've never had a trucker force you into the median (and about six feet away from a bridge abutment where the median ended!) because of a knee-jerk reaction to the "move over for emergency vehicles" law.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 14, 2012, 01:21:56 PM
Quote from: mightyace on June 14, 2012, 01:17:35 PM
Actually the trucks are why I-80 in PA is one of my BEST interstate drives. The truckers are much more sane and predictable than 4 wheelers these days.
you've never had a trucker force you into the median (and about six feet away from a bridge abutment where the median ended!) because of a knee-jerk reaction to the "move over for emergency vehicles" law.
No, I haven't though I did have one once try and run me off the road between exit 158 and 161 on that stretch of I-80. In that case I don't think it was intentional, more that he didn't see me. Still, having driven that stretch of 80 for 27 years, I have a good idea of what trucks can do. Or, I am less likely to panic having to avoid a stupid truck move than a stupid car one.
Quote from: mightyace on June 14, 2012, 03:22:37 PM
No, I haven't though I did have one once try and run me off the road between exit 158 and 161 on that stretch of I-80. In that case I don't think it was intentional, more that he didn't see me. Still, having driven that stretch of 80 for 27 years, I have a good idea of what trucks can do. Or, I am less likely to panic having to avoid a stupid truck move than a stupid car one.
I think if you claim to be a "professional driver", the least you can do is
see the other cars on the road.
I think it's due to the main focus of professional driver training being "how to avoid having trucks run into you" (or put another way, "why you shouldn't pass trucks except in textbook ideal conditions").
Quote from: deanej on June 15, 2012, 11:01:43 AM
I think it's due to the main focus of professional driver training being "how to avoid having trucks run into you" (or put another way, "why you shouldn't pass trucks except in textbook ideal conditions").
so trucks should not be passing other trucks? tell that to all the trucks that think it is legitimate to swing out doing 59mph to pass another truck doing 58mph, while traffic is coming up from behind doing 77mph.
furthermore, for all their concern about "making time", I have
never seen another truck speed up to accommodate the traffic coming from behind by minimizing their time spent in the left lane. Not once.
in conclusion, the main focus of professional driver training appears to be "how to be an oblivious asshole with no regard to any other vehicle on the road, except other trucks which are traveling marginally slower than you".
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 15, 2012, 11:05:53 AM
Quote from: deanej on June 15, 2012, 11:01:43 AM
I think it's due to the main focus of professional driver training being "how to avoid having trucks run into you" (or put another way, "why you shouldn't pass trucks except in textbook ideal conditions").
so trucks should not be passing other trucks? tell that to all the trucks that think it is legitimate to swing out doing 59mph to pass another truck doing 58mph, while traffic is coming up from behind doing 77mph.
furthermore, for all their concern about "making time", I have never seen another truck speed up to accommodate the traffic coming from behind by minimizing their time spent in the left lane. Not once.
in conclusion, the main focus of professional driver training appears to be "how to be an oblivious asshole with no regard to any other vehicle on the road, except other trucks which are traveling marginally slower than you".
On the Coquihalla Highway two weeks ago, on the uphill section it's three lanes... should be enough, right? But there was a truck in the right lane going 25 km/h, being passed by another truck in the middle lane going 27 km/h. The left lane was occupied by people trying out their sports cars at 130 km/h, so I was stuck at 27 km/h for the entire uphill section.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 15, 2012, 11:05:53 AM
Quote from: deanej on June 15, 2012, 11:01:43 AM
I think it's due to the main focus of professional driver training being "how to avoid having trucks run into you" (or put another way, "why you shouldn't pass trucks except in textbook ideal conditions").
so trucks should not be passing other trucks? tell that to all the trucks that think it is legitimate to swing out doing 59mph to pass another truck doing 58mph, while traffic is coming up from behind doing 77mph.
furthermore, for all their concern about "making time", I have never seen another truck speed up to accommodate the traffic coming from behind by minimizing their time spent in the left lane. Not once.
in conclusion, the main focus of professional driver training appears to be "how to be an oblivious asshole with no regard to any other vehicle on the road, except other trucks which are traveling marginally slower than you".
I imagine the driver training for a truck is different than for other vehicles... plus, just because someone took a course doesn't mean they're going to follow it.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 15, 2012, 11:05:53 AM
Quote from: deanej on June 15, 2012, 11:01:43 AM
I think it's due to the main focus of professional driver training being "how to avoid having trucks run into you" (or put another way, "why you shouldn't pass trucks except in textbook ideal conditions").
so trucks should not be passing other trucks? tell that to all the trucks that think it is legitimate to swing out doing 59mph to pass another truck doing 58mph, while traffic is coming up from behind doing 77mph.
furthermore, for all their concern about "making time", I have never seen another truck speed up to accommodate the traffic coming from behind by minimizing their time spent in the left lane. Not once.
in conclusion, the main focus of professional driver training appears to be "how to be an oblivious asshole with no regard to any other vehicle on the road, except other trucks which are traveling marginally slower than you".
This is one of my pet-peeves about truck drivers and I see it all of the time on I-5 and I-80. It's especially bad on I-80 when two trucks are going up a grade side-by-side at 40 MPH (automobiles generally do 65-75 with a 65 MPH speed limit).
On I-5, it's bad when one truck is going 57 MPH in the left lane trying to pass 3 or 4 trucks in a row going 55 MPH in the right lane. I have seen numerous times where there is room for the truck to move back into the right lane but doesn't because he can see another "slow truck" about a 1/4 mile ahead and decides to not move over until he passes that truck too. The result of this is about a dozen cars all stacked up behind the truck waiting for him to finally move over. I believe this is a violation of California state law too because on two-lane highways, a slow-moving vehicle must pull over when he/she is holding up 5 or more vehicles to allow them to pass.
I-81 Northbound in Syracuse on 6/15/2012 where there was construction narrowing I-81 to only one lane! It took almost 20 minuets to go from I-481 to I-690.
Quote from: mightyace on September 03, 2010, 10:18:38 AM
But, I love the scenery and it's one of the few interstates these days where the balance is mostly trucks 24x7. The are much easier to deal with than the average car driver.
I actually disagree... I go out of my way to avoid I-80 *because* of the truck traffic. It makes it impossible to set my cruise control to any reasonable speed because more often than not, some truck decides the best time to do a whole 5mph faster than the guy in front of him is when I'm about to pass him. Every... damn... time. Even if there's no one behind me and they could have waited all of 20 seconds for me to pass. There's heavy truck traffic on other roads, but I've never run into this nearly as often as I do on I-80 through PA. It's almost as if they do it on purpose...
Edit... heh, was in a ranting mood right after I read your post, so I responded immediately. Didn't see the few posts right below it which basically stated the same thing. It's not just me, though!
I 35 between San Antonio, TX and Laredo, TX :banghead:
Quote from: allniter89 on June 20, 2012, 12:57:24 AM
I 35 between San Antonio, TX and Laredo, TX :banghead:
What??? That stretch of highway freaking rocks! Little traffic, lots of great license plate spotting, 75 mph limit...... Unless you were the car in front of us on our trip down to México on the 3rd. We saw her whole passenger side front wheel come off her car at highway speed, roll along the ground, bounce high enough to hit tree branches, go
through a barbed wire fence, and come to rest in a field. It was her spare, and I'm guessing they didn't do a second torque when it was installed. Somehow, by the grace of God, she managed to keep control of the vehicle, even with metal scraping the pavement, and come to a stop–not in the travel lane, not in the grass (man,
that would have spelled disaster), but actually parallel parked on the shoulder. I'll bet that's probably her worst Interstate drive!
(We found the wheel and brought it back, not that it could have been remounted.)
she kept control after losing a front wheel? that is very impressive driving indeed.
I know, we couldn't believe it. And managed to stop between the shoulder line and the edge of the pavement. Mad skills The grace of God indeed.
Quote from: kphoger on June 20, 2012, 12:18:27 PM
Quote from: allniter89 on June 20, 2012, 12:57:24 AM
I 35 between San Antonio, TX and Laredo, TX :banghead:
What??? That stretch of highway freaking rocks! Little traffic, lots of great license plate spotting, 75 mph limit...... Unless you were the car in front of us on our trip down to México on the 3rd. We saw her whole passenger side front wheel come off her car at highway speed, roll along the ground, bounce high enough to hit tree branches, go through a barbed wire fence, and come to rest in a field. It was her spare, and I'm guessing they didn't do a second torque when it was installed. Somehow, by the grace of God, she managed to keep control of the vehicle, even with metal scraping the pavement, and come to a stop–not in the travel lane, not in the grass (man, that would have spelled disaster), but actually parallel parked on the shoulder. I'll bet that's probably her worst Interstate drive!
(We found the wheel and brought it back, not that it could have been remounted.)
My problem with I 35 was that I was in a 18wheeler with a 65mph speed governor. It seemed like it was a lot longer than 152? miles from San Antonio to Laredo and the scenery was
bore...ring!!. :banghead:
I suppose if I could have driven it at 75+mph, it might have been tolerable, if for no other reason than just to get the trip over-with sooner.
I once saw a 18 wheeler lose a wheel off her trailer, it rolled & bounced across the median and into the front of a car traveling the opposite direction :-o. The damage was similar to the car hitting a tree, lucky nobody was seriously hurt but there were a lot of dirty
drawers in that car :-D! The stoopid truck driver didn't even stop, not sure if she didn't know what happened or if she was running.
I stopped to see if I could help and called 911, gave a description of the truck but there was no company name on the trailer, don't know if they ever caught her.
Heh, I guess I could add my trip down 85 from Rock Hill, SC to Athens, GA for a basketball game.
Running on 85 south in my Jeep Cherokee with 4 good friends, doing a solid 70mph near the town of Cowpens... and my sunroof blows off. The whole thing. I have no idea where it went, there were cars behind us but none of them swerved and there weren't any accidents when we went back through the area after we turned around. I had to duct-tape a trash bag over the big hole in my roof. Terrifying! :wow:
I-287 in Middlesex and Somerset Counties in New Jersey. The road is over capcitated and has on going jams or slow moving conditions. It will probably take decades before anything is done to relieve this as NJ has many other projects that need done as well.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 22, 2012, 08:39:20 AM
I-287 in Middlesex and Somerset Counties in New Jersey. The road is over capcitated and has on going jams or slow moving conditions. It will probably take decades before anything is done to relieve this as NJ has many other projects that need done as well.
I drive that all the time. Just avoid it during rush hour and it's actually a pretty drive through Somerset. Middlesex is a bit more utilitarian, flat and straight like I-565.
Quote from: Steve on June 22, 2012, 06:53:16 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 22, 2012, 08:39:20 AM
I-287 in Middlesex and Somerset Counties in New Jersey. The road is over capcitated and has on going jams or slow moving conditions. It will probably take decades before anything is done to relieve this as NJ has many other projects that need done as well.
I drive that all the time. Just avoid it during rush hour and it's actually a pretty drive through Somerset. Middlesex is a bit more utilitarian, flat and straight like I-565.
You know the construction contractors who repaved the Exit 13 ramp to WB US 22 from 287 NB, did not have the decency to put up a warning sign letting the motorists know to use an alternate route like exit at NJ 28 or US 22 EB. I was returning to the Days Inn in Bridgewater late at night, and would have taken NJ 28 to Adamsville Road if I had known, but as you know the next u turn is at Exit 22 in Bedminster and there you have to make another u turn on US 202 & US 206 at River Road. I wasted time an energy going miles out of the way as it is almost 9 miles one way and back.
Then more construction had the I-78 Westbound closed at the same time, so I returned on US 202 & US 206 back to US 22 after dealing with slow pokes and the many signals that were added between Pluckemin and Somerville over than all the extra traffic going through the jughandle at River Road for those trying to get to I-78 that were displaced.
The worst Interstate drive I've ever encountered in my 35 years of driving happened about three years ago. Had gone up to Deerfield NH for the bi-annual ham radio swap meet they hold at the fairgrounds.
After I had made the rounds three times to check out the deals and see some people I usually don't get a chance to see, I decided to head up to Maine to browse some of the antique shops along US 1 north of Kennebukport.
Got on I-95 in Hampton and headed north. As I passed the Kittery rest area, the flashers on the "Tune To" highway advisory radio sign were illuminated. The HAR message indicated in a very matter-of-fact manner that there was a vehicle fire just south of MM 17, but that state police and maintenance crews were on scene addressing the issue. Based on this, and the fact that the overhead CMS just south of the York tolls was blank, I figured I would encounter a minor slowdown as I approached MM 17, but otherwise would be OK. So I stayed on the Turnpike.
Just over a half-mile north of the York tolls, traffic in all three lanes ground to a halt. I flipped on Channel 19 on the CB and discovered that the "vehicle fire" that the HAR message implied was under control was a 18 wheeler with a box trailer that was carrying a load of pallets, was fully engulfed in flames because the engine had caught fire, and that the state police had completely closed the road. We sat there north of York for about 3 1/2 hours before traffic started moving again. And, once the road was re-opened, it took us another 1 1/2 hours to clear the scene. And what a scene it was. Save for a small part of the chassis, the truck tractor was completely destroyed, and the sides and top of the box trailer were mostly gone as well.
Needless to say, I had lost all interest in shopping for antiques at this point (plus the stores were about to close). So, I got off at the Biddeford exit (which gives me quicker access to US 1 than the Kennebukport exit does), pulled into a gas station and refueled, and got back on I-95 south and headed back home.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 22, 2012, 07:21:11 PM
You know the construction contractors who repaved the Exit 13 ramp to WB US 22 from 287 NB, did not have the decency to put up a warning sign letting the motorists know to use an alternate route like exit at NJ 28 or US 22 EB.
To be fair, do you know if the traffic control plans for the project called for providing such an advisory sign? I've had issues with contractors over the years, but I know two things for certain. They aren't mind readers, and they won't do something that's not specified in the contract unless they are told to do so by the DOT.
Quote from: roadman on June 22, 2012, 08:26:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 22, 2012, 07:21:11 PM
You know the construction contractors who repaved the Exit 13 ramp to WB US 22 from 287 NB, did not have the decency to put up a warning sign letting the motorists know to use an alternate route like exit at NJ 28 or US 22 EB.
To be fair, do you know if the traffic control plans for the project called for providing such an advisory sign? I've had issues with contractors over the years, but I know two things for certain. They aren't mind readers, and they won't do something that's not specified in the contract unless they are told to do so by the DOT.
I see your point, as they are not going to go out of their way. However, someone screwed up, whether DOT or whomever. Being it is miles to the next exit, it should have been addressed. When permission was granted to close the road, it should have been an issue. Even a portable VMS would have been nice.
I-80/94 along the south side of Chicago during Hurricane Ike in 2008. Wife and I were driving to Michigan from Madison, WI, and found that the highway was flooded out just past the Indiana line headed east. We dropped down to US-30, which also was underwater but passible into Indiana (not to mention jammed with traffic). It, however, was blocked east of US-41.
So, we backtracked south on US-41, then cut across through Lowell, IN (which was maybe an hour or two from becoming impassible). We tried coming back up I-65, got detoured onto US-30 again, then diverted through Valpariso around the flooded out stretches of US-30. All in all, it took us nearly 8 hours just to traverse the 50 miles between the Illinois line and the Michigan line.
Quote from: thenetwork on April 28, 2012, 05:39:47 PM
About 10-15 years ago, I was heading south along I-95 from Baltimore to Richmond, Virginia. It was probably only 1 or 2 on an ordinary (non-holiday) Friday Afternoon, and I-95 south of DC was a parking lot for over 20 miles. I tried to parallel I-95 via US-1, and it was just as bad.
Needless to say, I gave up, bailed at Fredericksburg and headed west into the Blue Ridge Mountains to I-81. I wanted to go to VA Beach for a getaway weekend, but after that mess, I wanted nothing more to do with traffic.
The better bail route in that case (to reach Virginia Beach) would have been either Va. 3 east (at Exit 130) across Fredericksburg to U.S. 301 south in King George County to U.S. 17 south at Port Royal, Caroline County - or I-95 south to U.S. 17/U.S. 1 south (at Exit 126), then left on U.S. 17 south.
In either case, then follow U.S. 17 south all the way to I-64 at Newport News (entering I-64 at Exit 258), but being careful to respect the speed limit, mostly 55 MPH.
Google maps says between 96 and 97 miles from Port Royal to Newport News, and I have
never found that stretch of U.S. 17 to be congested.
Additionally, I think it's a good idea to avoid
all of southbound I-95 between Springfield, Va. and I-295 at Henrico County on Friday afternoons and other "getaway" days. A better route (even with the signalized intersections and the two-lane Gov. Nice Bridge) is Md. 5 south from the Capital Beltway (Exit 7) to U.S. 301 in Brandywine, then south on 301 across the Gov. Nice Bridge to Bowling Green, Va. (where 301 "exits" from itself), then south on 301 (even though it is only one lane each way) all the way to I-295 south of Hanover Court House.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 24, 2012, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 28, 2012, 05:39:47 PM
About 10-15 years ago, I was heading south along I-95 from Baltimore to Richmond, Virginia. It was probably only 1 or 2 on an ordinary (non-holiday) Friday Afternoon, and I-95 south of DC was a parking lot for over 20 miles. I tried to parallel I-95 via US-1, and it was just as bad.
Needless to say, I gave up, bailed at Fredericksburg and headed west into the Blue Ridge Mountains to I-81. I wanted to go to VA Beach for a getaway weekend, but after that mess, I wanted nothing more to do with traffic.
The better bail route in that case (to reach Virginia Beach) would have been either Va. 3 east (at Exit 130) across Fredericksburg to U.S. 301 south in King George County to U.S. 17 south at Port Royal, Caroline County - or I-95 south to U.S. 17/U.S. 1 south (at Exit 126), then left on U.S. 17 south.
In either case, then follow U.S. 17 south all the way to I-64 at Newport News (entering I-64 at Exit 258), but being careful to respect the speed limit, mostly 55 MPH.
Google maps says between 96 and 97 miles from Port Royal to Newport News, and I have never found that stretch of U.S. 17 to be congested.
Additionally, I think it's a good idea to avoid all of southbound I-95 between Springfield, Va. and I-295 at Henrico County on Friday afternoons and other "getaway" days. A better route (even with the signalized intersections and the two-lane Gov. Nice Bridge) is Md. 5 south from the Capital Beltway (Exit 7) to U.S. 301 in Brandywine, then south on 301 across the Gov. Nice Bridge to Bowling Green, Va. (where 301 "exits" from itself), then south on 301 (even though it is only one lane each way) all the way to I-295 south of Hanover Court House.
According to Google Maps, US-17 looks to be mostly four-lane divided between Fredericksburg and the Hampton Roads area.
I think the worst drive I can remember was going across I-70 in Missouri one summer on our way back from vacation. There was construction from Kansas City to St. Louis. There was heavy traffic, lots of lane closures, and there was fog once it got dark. Talk about a nightmare.
Quote from: ftballfan on June 24, 2012, 07:56:35 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 24, 2012, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 28, 2012, 05:39:47 PM
About 10-15 years ago, I was heading south along I-95 from Baltimore to Richmond, Virginia. It was probably only 1 or 2 on an ordinary (non-holiday) Friday Afternoon, and I-95 south of DC was a parking lot for over 20 miles. I tried to parallel I-95 via US-1, and it was just as bad.
Needless to say, I gave up, bailed at Fredericksburg and headed west into the Blue Ridge Mountains to I-81. I wanted to go to VA Beach for a getaway weekend, but after that mess, I wanted nothing more to do with traffic.
The better bail route in that case (to reach Virginia Beach) would have been either Va. 3 east (at Exit 130) across Fredericksburg to U.S. 301 south in King George County to U.S. 17 south at Port Royal, Caroline County - or I-95 south to U.S. 17/U.S. 1 south (at Exit 126), then left on U.S. 17 south.
In either case, then follow U.S. 17 south all the way to I-64 at Newport News (entering I-64 at Exit 258), but being careful to respect the speed limit, mostly 55 MPH.
Google maps says between 96 and 97 miles from Port Royal to Newport News, and I have never found that stretch of U.S. 17 to be congested.
Additionally, I think it's a good idea to avoid all of southbound I-95 between Springfield, Va. and I-295 at Henrico County on Friday afternoons and other "getaway" days. A better route (even with the signalized intersections and the two-lane Gov. Nice Bridge) is Md. 5 south from the Capital Beltway (Exit 7) to U.S. 301 in Brandywine, then south on 301 across the Gov. Nice Bridge to Bowling Green, Va. (where 301 "exits" from itself), then south on 301 (even though it is only one lane each way) all the way to I-295 south of Hanover Court House.
According to Google Maps, US-17 looks to be mostly four-lane divided between Fredericksburg and the Hampton Roads area.
It is from Port Royal (U.S. 301) to I-64 at Newport News.
But between Fredericksburg and Port Royal there is a long segment of U.S. 17 that's two lane undivided.
Quote from: JREwing78 on June 22, 2012, 10:37:58 PM
I-80/94 along the south side of Chicago during Hurricane Ike in 2008. Wife and I were driving to Michigan from Madison, WI, and found that the highway was flooded out just past the Indiana line headed east. We dropped down to US-30, which also was underwater but passible into Indiana (not to mention jammed with traffic). It, however, was blocked east of US-41.
So, we backtracked south on US-41, then cut across through Lowell, IN (which was maybe an hour or two from becoming impassible). We tried coming back up I-65, got detoured onto US-30 again, then diverted through Valparaiso around the flooded out stretches of US-30. All in all, it took us nearly 8 hours just to traverse the 50 miles between the Illinois line and the Michigan line.
I remember all of this. While I didn't drive on the interstates during that time, the side effects were disastrous. I had to use U.S. 30, Indiana 49, and U.S. 20 just to get to my old house in Gary. A simple nine-mile jaunt down I-65* became a 30-mile nightmare; never mind the fact that work crews decided to keep a lane closed for resurfacing work that was obviously delayed because of the fact, making it a lesson in patience.
*What made it even worse was the fact that I-65 was closed north of I-80/94 for reconstruction. It probably wouldn't have been so bad if it weren't for that. Because of that sick coincidence, INDOT warned Chicago-bound drivers coming from Indianapolis to use U.S. 24 (Exit 201, almost 60 miles south of I-80/94) and pick up I-57 in Illinois to continue into the city.
Quote from: roadman on June 22, 2012, 08:21:19 PM
Just over a half-mile north of the York tolls, traffic in all three lanes ground to a halt. I flipped on Channel 19 on the CB and discovered that the "vehicle fire" that the HAR message implied was under control was a 18 wheeler with a box trailer that was carrying a load of pallets, was fully engulfed in flames because the engine had caught fire, and that the state police had completely closed the road. We sat there north of York for about 3 1/2 hours before traffic started moving again. And, once the road was re-opened, it took us another 1 1/2 hours to clear the scene. And what a scene it was. Save for a small part of the chassis, the truck tractor was completely destroyed, and the sides and top of the box trailer were mostly gone as well.
I've been stuck on the Maine Turnpike myself a few times as a passenger, but know a lot about the grief. What they don't tell you in York is that the next Exit is at mile 19 in Wells (ME Routes 9 and 109). I don't know of any overhead VMS signs on I-95 between the New Hampshire line and the toll plaza after MM 7 in York.
There was one time when a burned out tractor trailer was on the side of the Turnpike northbound in the Biddeford area. (Sadly, I think there was a fatality.) I was stuck in that massive backup, to where we bailed at (I believe) Exit 25 in Kennebunk. We were on US Route 1 for a lot longer than we planned for. I was heading to the Concord Coach bus terminal in Portland.
Been posted here a few times already, but I'd have to go with I-5 from the Grapevine until Sacramento. That is a long, monotonous drive. Given the option and if I have time, I love heading north on the 101.
I'd also nominate I-10 from Tucson to San Antonio. Long and monotonous....then traffic come El Paso, and then nearly 500 miles of sleep inducing highway again.
Lastly, I'd nominate the 505. A short, but boring, stretch of rural northern CA interstate.
I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson. Hellacious traffic, lots of trucks, dust storms, and idiots.
Quote from: JREwing78 on June 22, 2012, 10:37:58 PM
I-80/94 along the south side of Chicago during Hurricane Ike in 2008. Wife and I were driving to Michigan from Madison, WI, and found that the highway was flooded out just past the Indiana line headed east. We dropped down to US-30, which also was underwater but passible into Indiana (not to mention jammed with traffic). It, however, was blocked east of US-41.
So, we backtracked south on US-41, then cut across through Lowell, IN (which was maybe an hour or two from becoming impassible). We tried coming back up I-65, got detoured onto US-30 again, then diverted through Valpariso around the flooded out stretches of US-30. All in all, it took us nearly 8 hours just to traverse the 50 miles between the Illinois line and the Michigan line.
Man, what some of us in Indiana would do for that kind of rain right about now, nothing that floods roads of course, but something more than 0.05 inches for the month. Off that topic however, I remember when the interchange there at Illinois 394 and Interstates 80 and 94 was under construction and we had to continue south to U.S. 30, and then that had traffic (this was just simply rush hour traffic) and ultimately cut across some of the local roads that took us out to Cedar Lake where we picked up SR 2 onto Interstate 65.
It's no better in southern Wisconsin, that's for sure. Different story north of Madison - they certainly have had their share.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 24, 2012, 11:26:51 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on June 24, 2012, 07:56:35 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 24, 2012, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 28, 2012, 05:39:47 PM
About 10-15 years ago, I was heading south along I-95 from Baltimore to Richmond, Virginia. It was probably only 1 or 2 on an ordinary (non-holiday) Friday Afternoon, and I-95 south of DC was a parking lot for over 20 miles. I tried to parallel I-95 via US-1, and it was just as bad.
Needless to say, I gave up, bailed at Fredericksburg and headed west into the Blue Ridge Mountains to I-81. I wanted to go to VA Beach for a getaway weekend, but after that mess, I wanted nothing more to do with traffic.
The better bail route in that case (to reach Virginia Beach) would have been either Va. 3 east (at Exit 130) across Fredericksburg to U.S. 301 south in King George County to U.S. 17 south at Port Royal, Caroline County - or I-95 south to U.S. 17/U.S. 1 south (at Exit 126), then left on U.S. 17 south.
In either case, then follow U.S. 17 south all the way to I-64 at Newport News (entering I-64 at Exit 258), but being careful to respect the speed limit, mostly 55 MPH.
Google maps says between 96 and 97 miles from Port Royal to Newport News, and I have never found that stretch of U.S. 17 to be congested.
Additionally, I think it's a good idea to avoid all of southbound I-95 between Springfield, Va. and I-295 at Henrico County on Friday afternoons and other "getaway" days. A better route (even with the signalized intersections and the two-lane Gov. Nice Bridge) is Md. 5 south from the Capital Beltway (Exit 7) to U.S. 301 in Brandywine, then south on 301 across the Gov. Nice Bridge to Bowling Green, Va. (where 301 "exits" from itself), then south on 301 (even though it is only one lane each way) all the way to I-295 south of Hanover Court House.
According to Google Maps, US-17 looks to be mostly four-lane divided between Fredericksburg and the Hampton Roads area.
It is from Port Royal (U.S. 301) to I-64 at Newport News.
But between Fredericksburg and Port Royal there is a long segment of U.S. 17 that's two lane undivided.
There is, but the speed limit between Saluda and Port Royal is 60 mph, and it's very lightly traveled, so it more than makes up for the time spent sitting in traffic on 95. On my visit to Hampton Roads this weekend I took 17 both to and from DC to avoid traffic, and even on the 2-lane portion I could easily do 70+ mph just following the cars in front of me.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on June 26, 2012, 09:15:28 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 24, 2012, 11:26:51 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on June 24, 2012, 07:56:35 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 24, 2012, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 28, 2012, 05:39:47 PM
About 10-15 years ago, I was heading south along I-95 from Baltimore to Richmond, Virginia. It was probably only 1 or 2 on an ordinary (non-holiday) Friday Afternoon, and I-95 south of DC was a parking lot for over 20 miles. I tried to parallel I-95 via US-1, and it was just as bad.
Needless to say, I gave up, bailed at Fredericksburg and headed west into the Blue Ridge Mountains to I-81. I wanted to go to VA Beach for a getaway weekend, but after that mess, I wanted nothing more to do with traffic.
The better bail route in that case (to reach Virginia Beach) would have been either Va. 3 east (at Exit 130) across Fredericksburg to U.S. 301 south in King George County to U.S. 17 south at Port Royal, Caroline County - or I-95 south to U.S. 17/U.S. 1 south (at Exit 126), then left on U.S. 17 south.
In either case, then follow U.S. 17 south all the way to I-64 at Newport News (entering I-64 at Exit 258), but being careful to respect the speed limit, mostly 55 MPH.
Google maps says between 96 and 97 miles from Port Royal to Newport News, and I have never found that stretch of U.S. 17 to be congested.
Additionally, I think it's a good idea to avoid all of southbound I-95 between Springfield, Va. and I-295 at Henrico County on Friday afternoons and other "getaway" days. A better route (even with the signalized intersections and the two-lane Gov. Nice Bridge) is Md. 5 south from the Capital Beltway (Exit 7) to U.S. 301 in Brandywine, then south on 301 across the Gov. Nice Bridge to Bowling Green, Va. (where 301 "exits" from itself), then south on 301 (even though it is only one lane each way) all the way to I-295 south of Hanover Court House.
According to Google Maps, US-17 looks to be mostly four-lane divided between Fredericksburg and the Hampton Roads area.
It is from Port Royal (U.S. 301) to I-64 at Newport News.
But between Fredericksburg and Port Royal there is a long segment of U.S. 17 that's two lane undivided.
There is, but the speed limit between Saluda and Port Royal is 60 mph, and it's very lightly traveled, so it more than makes up for the time spent sitting in traffic on 95.
I strongly agree.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on June 26, 2012, 09:15:28 AM
On my visit to Hampton Roads this weekend I took 17 both to and from DC to avoid traffic, and even on the 2-lane portion I could easily do 70+ mph just following the cars in front of me.
Though as you correctly point out above, traffic volumes on U.S. 17 are generally low, and it isn't always possible to use other traffic ahead to check for speed limit enforcement beyond what can be seen.
This technically doesn't count since it's not a U.S. Interstate, but I find Quebec Autoroute 20 going from Montreal to Quebec City to be just absolutely dreary once you get past Mont Saint-Hilaire. For a three-hour drive, it seems almost interminable. And I've only ever driven it during the summer, so I can't even imagine what it'd be like when the weather isn't pleasant.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on April 30, 2012, 02:08:21 PM
Nobody said I-49? Maybe it's just because I used to drive it so much but I hate the Shreveport to Alex. section. Also the future 49 in Arkansas from the state line to Texarkana is super bland. Yeah because its new but the spaced out exits and lack of mileage signs make it seem a lot less than 40 miles
That stretch of I-49 is smooth, but it's usually crawling with smokeys. What makes it so dull between Shreveport and Opelousas is the lack of services and attractions along it. Natchitoches and Alexandria are the only towns of any size. Once you get to Opelousas you feel like you're back in civilization.
The stretch of I-49 in Louisiana is super smooth, and if 85% of the traffic was doing 75+ anyways, there shouldn't be a huge group of people who do 80 now. Light traffic, high speed limit, and Alexandria and Natchitoches are the two major places on I-49. Opelousas-Carencro-Lafayette seem to converge into one blob. If you really want to see bland, try going down US 71 between Alexandria and US 190. Lecompte, Bunkie, and that's it.
I would like to nominate US 90 between Lafayette and Berwick as the most boring stretch of highway. It's going to either be a Future I-6 or Future I-49, and the fact that it bypasses every town makes it a very boring trip. Plus, it seems to take forever from Lafayette to Morgan City.
I-78 in PA. Especially from its first merge with 22 east of 81 over to Hamburg. It's just laser-straight.
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I-95 in CT - I've traveled that every summer since I was a kid - there's always traffic, construction, crazy drivers (both fast and slow, cars zooming in and out of lanes, and other cars left-lane hogging...), all day every day and nights. One minor accident stops the whole works...
No mentions in this thread of two of my least-favorite Interstate segments, both in Penn's Woods:
(1) the "western" part of "free" I-70 in Pennsylvania, from I-79 all the way to New Stanton. Substandard design (including inadequate on- and off-ramps, no left shoulder at all, frequently no right shoulder and interchanges with "right-off/right-on" ramps that look like they were adapted from at-grade signalized intersections [and maybe they were]), lanes that seem narrower than they should be and low overpasses.
(2) I-83 from the Maryland border to Harrisburg. Same problems as the western segment of I-70 (at least the Dead Man's Curve south of York has been remediated), and a dangerous and inadequate ramp where I-83 northbound exits from itself onto Harrisburg's Capital Beltway.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 05, 2012, 08:55:54 PM
No mentions in this thread of two of my least-favorite Interstate segments, both in Penn's Woods:
(1) the "western" part of "free" I-70 in Pennsylvania, from I-79 all the way to New Stanton. Substandard design (including inadequate on- and off-ramps, no left shoulder at all, frequently no right shoulder and interchanges with "right-off/right-on" ramps that look like they were adapted from at-grade signalized intersections [and maybe they were]), lanes that seem narrower than they should be and low overpasses.
(2) I-83 from the Maryland border to Harrisburg. Same problems as the western segment of I-70 (at least the Dead Man's Curve south of York has been remediated), and a dangerous and inadequate ramp where I-83 northbound exits from itself onto Harrisburg's Capital Beltway.
I like the look and feel of old road designs. However, I don't like them actually being there since they're so substandard.
And I-83 doesn't exit itself northbound. It either...
-Ends... at itself, or
-Has a left exit with a lane drop, and then a two-lane left entrance ramp. :-D
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 07, 2012, 09:39:52 AM
I like the look and feel of old road designs. However, I don't like them actually being there since they're so substandard.
Is that like saying that toys were so much better when they were made from sharp metal and painted with lead paint? :)
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 07, 2012, 09:39:52 AM
I like the look and feel of old road designs. However, I don't like them actually being there since they're so substandard.
And I-83 doesn't exit itself northbound. It either...
-Ends... at itself, or
-Has a left exit with a lane drop, and then a two-lane left entrance ramp. :-D
I guess you're not that familiar with northeast freeway culture. The interstates aren't the through routes up here - the older freeways that pre-date the interstates are, and the interstates are just along for the ride, with the ability to make turns onto other roads just like US and state routes can.
Quote from: deanej on July 07, 2012, 12:03:59 PM
I guess you're not that familiar with northeast freeway culture. The interstates aren't the through routes up here - the older freeways that pre-date the interstates are, and the interstates are just along for the ride, with the ability to make turns onto other roads just like US and state routes can.
Driving around the freeways in California (especially CA-163 in San Diego and the various freeways in San Francisco) reminded me of home for the same reason. A number of their freeways predate the Interstate system (and modern Interstate standards) as well.
Quote from: Compulov on July 07, 2012, 10:01:25 AM
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 07, 2012, 09:39:52 AM
I like the look and feel of old road designs. However, I don't like them actually being there since they're so substandard.
Is that like saying that toys were so much better when they were made from sharp metal and painted with lead paint? :)
Okay, maybe not
feel.
QuoteDriving around the freeways in California (especially CA-163 in San Diego and the various freeways in San Francisco) reminded me of home for the same reason. A number of their freeways predate the Interstate system (and modern Interstate standards) as well.
If you find CA-163 bad, check out majority on the interstates in Oregon. I know, I know, I'll probably get some angry replies on this one, but I-5 in PDX is just awful. :banghead:
Quote from: jemacedo9 on July 05, 2012, 04:33:28 PM
I-95 in CT - I've traveled that every summer since I was a kid - there's always traffic, construction, crazy drivers (both fast and slow, cars zooming in and out of lanes, and other cars left-lane hogging...), all day every day and nights. One minor accident stops the whole works...
Resurrected the thread. Yes, I drove through CT on I-95 and I can not believe the traffic! Especially from New Haven to RI state line where I-95 reduces from 6 to 4 lanes (for the most part), but it was fun following other cars zooming in and out of lanes. Seemed the only way at that time I could handle CT traffic, but otherwise it is SCREAMING for widening to 6 lanes the entire state.
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 05, 2012, 04:24:08 PM
I-78 in PA. Especially from its first merge with 22 east of 81 over to Hamburg. It's just laser-straight.
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I second that one. Out of the interstates I drove in, I-78 is the worst of all, followed by I-85 in Virginia (Tree canyon).
Quote from: Strider on June 05, 2014, 12:58:00 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 05, 2012, 04:24:08 PM
I-78 in PA. Especially from its first merge with 22 east of 81 over to Hamburg. It's just laser-straight.
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I second that one. Out of the interstates I drove in, I-78 is the worst of all, followed by I-85 in Virginia (Tree canyon).
It's funny, while I-85 in Virginia is boring, I would never nominate it as a "worst" Interstate because on the way south, I've always found it to be a calm respite after fighting my way down I-95 from Fairfax County to Petersburg, and on the way north I always found it to be a silent, smooth road compared to the condition of North Carolina's portion. (I should mention that I was constantly driving I-85 between 1995 and 1998 while attending Duke Law, but I travel it a lot less since then and I know North Carolina was improving at least some segments of their portion between Durham and the state line.) In other words, the circumstances of where that particular segment falls in any trip beyond either end of Virginia's segment of I-85 trumps the "boring" aspect in my mind....although with that said, I'm not using that road on the way south this Saturday because I find US-29 to Greensboro to be more pleasant than the Interstate.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 02, 2010, 09:58:19 PM
I-5 between Wilsonville and Grants Pass is boring as hell, and there's hills south of Eugene. Also, apparently, the entire stretch of I-5 in Oregon is a construction zone since ODOT never puts end road work signs, and there's plenty of 'TRAFFIC FINES ARE DOUBLED' signs... :\
Also, ODOT doesn't have a speed limit higher than 65...
Agreed on the speed limits, and Wilsonville to Eugene. But I find the stretch from Eugene to Grants Pass (and all the way to Redding, where it gets painful again) mildly enjoyable. It's nothing special, but I won't complain. Although, I haven't driven it too many times (from Bend there's not much reason to).
I had to drive into Denver from Western CO today on business. And throughout the day, nearly every darn freeway had some sort of congestion. The worst was some sort of accident on NB I-25 in the tech center. I drove south and saw about 5 miles of stop & go on all 5 lanes. And midday traffic was equally heavy both ways on I-70, I-270 and the West end of I-76. Weather was not a problem either. And the cops were all over the place on speed patrol as well -- especially near the twin tunnels widening project west of town.
I forgot how many kamikaze merges and weaves there are on I-70 between I-25 and I-270. The rebuild can't come fast enough!
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 05, 2014, 02:58:25 PM
Quote from: Strider on June 05, 2014, 12:58:00 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 05, 2012, 04:24:08 PM
I-78 in PA. Especially from its first merge with 22 east of 81 over to Hamburg. It's just laser-straight.
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I second that one. Out of the interstates I drove in, I-78 is the worst of all, followed by I-85 in Virginia (Tree canyon).
It's funny, while I-85 in Virginia is boring, I would never nominate it as a "worst" Interstate because on the way south, I've always found it to be a calm respite after fighting my way down I-95 from Fairfax County to Petersburg, and on the way north I always found it to be a silent, smooth road compared to the condition of North Carolina's portion. (I should mention that I was constantly driving I-85 between 1995 and 1998 while attending Duke Law, but I travel it a lot less since then and I know North Carolina was improving at least some segments of their portion between Durham and the state line.) In other words, the circumstances of where that particular segment falls in any trip beyond either end of Virginia's segment of I-85 trumps the "boring" aspect in my mind....although with that said, I'm not using that road on the way south this Saturday because I find US-29 to Greensboro to be more pleasant than the Interstate.
Agreed. I-85 in Virginia doesn't get a lot of traffic at all. And after maybe two or three exits after the I-95 split, the tree canyon/median begins and it's just a peaceful race through the pines. However, the only thing I don't like is how the turnaround lanes for the cops are hidden in the forested median, so you can't be sure where the speed traps are. I don't know if I like heading south or north more on this section of highway. It's quite pretty and relaxing.
As for the North Carolina portion of I-85, it is much better than it used to be. The section from Durham to the Virginia border is still hit and miss, but from Greensboro to Charlotte, they have really improved the road. It's wider and they rerouted the segment over the Yadkin River so that it's safer and that left-lane merge is gone. The Kannapolis section is still crowded, but I think they are widening that part too.
Quote from: Zzonkmiles on June 06, 2014, 01:01:43 AM
... but from Greensboro to Charlotte, they have really improved the road. It's wider and they rerouted the segment over the Yadkin River so that it's safer and that left-lane merge is gone. The Kannapolis section is still crowded, but I think they are widening that part too.
I'll see tomorrow how that segment is coming. I encountered a lot of that construction in December 2012 on our way south for Christmas, so I'm interested in seeing how it's evolved since then. I remember well how narrow the road used to be from the Yadkin down to the point where it cuts west near that US-29 access road. Even with the widening still in progress, it was a big improvement.
Well, to me, "worst" and "most boring" are two different things. For one thing, I cannot believe that nobody here has nominated I-55 from Chicago to St. Louis as the "most boring"! Although I-57 south of Chicago gives it a run for its money. Both run through flat, featureless. BORING countryside. Frankly, IL, IN and OH have a number of nominees for the 'most boring' interstate, given their flat and dull scenery and uninspired freeway designs. Drive much around here and you'll think of I-70 through Kansas could be a future national park!
Now "worst" has to be a shared honor between I-84 and I-95 in Fairfield and New Haven Counties, Connecticut, along with their non-interstate cousin - the Merritt Parkway. As little as 7 total lanes connect New England with about 90% of the rest of the USA. And the congestion is horrible! I-95 is a disgrace, too narrow and incredibly congested; I-84 is filled with unnecessarily sharp curves and ill-placed left exits. On a holiday weekend, it can easily take 7 or 8 hours to get from the Boston area to just past New York City. It once took us 4 hours to get from Danbury to Manchester, CT and I've had 4 hour waits getting from Greenwich to New Haven too. Just dreadful.
It's a bottleneck that affects traffic on a national scale because the only other interstate connecting the 6 New England states with the rest of the USA is I-90, a better road that's not convenient unless you're headed straight west from Boston and points north toward Buffalo and Cleveland. Anywhere else and you're forced to pass through SW CT and it's horrible interstates.
Wow, not only have I made that trip hundreds of times with a very low percentage of the kind of delays you describe, but the Boston-NY route is hyper-redundant — there are more high-speed "escape routes" than one will find in nearly any similar trip. I just did it on a Friday at 3pm — one of the worst times to depart Boston — and other than the reasonable rush-hour sluggishness just outside Boston and Hartford, I kept moving well. Are there enough lanes that one can speed through without having to think about it? No. Sadly, this trip may require a map, flexibility, and thinking. But dreadful? Only on occasion, and almost never without better alternatives.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 06, 2014, 10:26:31 AM
Wow, not only have I made that trip hundreds of times with a very low percentage of the kind of delays you describe, but the Boston-NY route is hyper-redundant — there are more high-speed "escape routes" than one will find in nearly any similar trip. I just did it on a Friday at 3pm — one of the worst times to depart Boston — and other than the reasonable rush-hour sluggishness just outside Boston and Hartford, I kept moving well. Are there enough lanes that one can speed through without having to think about it? No. Sadly, this trip may require a map, flexibility, and thinking. But dreadful? Only on occasion, and almost never without better alternatives.
You've been lucky, I think. Try that drive on any holiday weekend and you'll have great odds of lengthy delays. We lived in the Philadelphia area for a grand total of 15 months and visited family in N.E. several times, hitting delays of 2 to as much as 5 hours along that part of the route - multiple times. I got the impression that it's pretty commonplace.
Redundancy? Not really. Given the population of the region, the number of lanes combined with the outdated freeway designs in SW CT cause a huge bottleneck. When traffic is tied up on all 3 "highways", you're done. There's not really a feasible surface route alternative, given the manner in which US Highways 1 and 6 meander through Fairfield County, each with an average speed that's really no better than the gridlock on I-84 or I-95.
I'll say this: Maine has a similar bottleneck to deal with on I-95, the only interstate linking that state with the rest of the USA. But I've found getting through Connecticut to be even worse, thanks to the sheer volume of traffic involved. It's so bad sometimes that we would sometimes take Amtrak to New Haven and rent a car from there!
My sample size is enormous — like I said, hundreds of trips — so either we have very different approaches to the trip or maybe you've been unlucky.
Holidays are what they are. You may have seen the threads with the individual looking for the easy route through NY — much like that doesn't exist, a route sufficient to handle a big holiday weekend may not ever be in the cards. Roads are built for a certain typical maximum, not a worst-case scenario.
As for redundancy, let me explain:
From Boston, I have the usual 95 or 90 choice. 99% of the time this will be 90 to 84, though if there's an extreme anomaly 395 is a less-than-ideal option.
Approaching Hartford, there's 15 to 91, 2 to 3 to 91, or 84. If 91 is bad, I can "escape" to 84 on 9 or 691, or onto the Wilbur Cross.
From 84, I can easily shoot down the sleepy and fast CT 8 to the Merritt or 95. Once on 684, I can take the Saw mill to either the Henry Hudson, the Thruway/Deegan, or the Sprain Brook.
From the Merritt, there are easy outs at the Milford Parkway, 8, or 7, all to 95, all of which also work well from 95 to the Merritt. Once in New York State, I can stay on the Hutch, or bail out across the Cross Westchester or Cross County to any of the southbound routes mentioned above.
None of these really takes me out of my way (395 and 95 east of New Haven are poor last resorts, and CT 9 veers north but that's about it) nor has below highway speed limits (except the few Saw Mill lights).
How many intercity trips offer this kind of flexibility? Honestly, I just don't spend that much time in traffic on this trip.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 05, 2014, 02:58:25 PM
Quote from: Strider on June 05, 2014, 12:58:00 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on July 05, 2012, 04:24:08 PM
I-78 in PA. Especially from its first merge with 22 east of 81 over to Hamburg. It's just laser-straight.
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I second that one. Out of the interstates I drove in, I-78 is the worst of all, followed by I-85 in Virginia (Tree canyon).
It's funny, while I-85 in Virginia is boring, I would never nominate it as a "worst" Interstate because on the way south, I've always found it to be a calm respite after fighting my way down I-95 from Fairfax County to Petersburg, and on the way north I always found it to be a silent, smooth road compared to the condition of North Carolina's portion. (I should mention that I was constantly driving I-85 between 1995 and 1998 while attending Duke Law, but I travel it a lot less since then and I know North Carolina was improving at least some segments of their portion between Durham and the state line.) In other words, the circumstances of where that particular segment falls in any trip beyond either end of Virginia's segment of I-85 trumps the "boring" aspect in my mind....although with that said, I'm not using that road on the way south this Saturday because I find US-29 to Greensboro to be more pleasant than the Interstate.
Yeah I'm saying this because while it's quiet and pleasant like you mentioned, sometimes it seems to feel like it's going on forever. Maybe I'm a slow driver. haha.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 06, 2014, 07:34:52 AM
Quote from: Zzonkmiles on June 06, 2014, 01:01:43 AM
... but from Greensboro to Charlotte, they have really improved the road. It's wider and they rerouted the segment over the Yadkin River so that it's safer and that left-lane merge is gone. The Kannapolis section is still crowded, but I think they are widening that part too.
I'll see tomorrow how that segment is coming. I encountered a lot of that construction in December 2012 on our way south for Christmas, so I'm interested in seeing how it's evolved since then. I remember well how narrow the road used to be from the Yadkin down to the point where it cuts west near that US-29 access road. Even with the widening still in progress, it was a big improvement.
Yeah, I-85 in North Carolina is much better. There are more lanes from Exit 48-55 (recently finished widening to 8 lanes) and the new Yadkin River bridge. Much better. They're going to widen I-85 from Exit 55 to 63 as soon as the work is finished, and then from 63 to 68 a couple of years from there. As soon as the widening work is complete, I-85 will be 6-8 lanes from Exit 10 to 163. Hopefully they will widen I-85 from there to Durham soon.
Worst interstate drive I've ever experienced was I-24 from Chattanooga to Nashville after sunset on March 12, 1993.
I have to go outside the box on this one: I-25 north of Las Cruces, New Mexico. Why? I don't appreciate feeling intimidated into consenting to a warrantless search of my private property by people with guns when I'm simply trying to use a tax-funded, public road to travel from one point to another within the country of which I am a citizen.
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 08, 2014, 03:02:35 PM
I have to go outside the box on this one: I-25 north of Las Cruces, New Mexico. Why? I don't appreciate feeling intimidated into consenting to a warrantless search of my private property by people with guns when I'm simply trying to use a tax-funded, public road to travel from one point to another within the country of which I am a citizen.
This sounds like a story that needs to be told.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 08, 2014, 05:54:06 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 08, 2014, 03:02:35 PM
I have to go outside the box on this one: I-25 north of Las Cruces, New Mexico. Why? I don't appreciate feeling intimidated into consenting to a warrantless search of my private property by people with guns when I'm simply trying to use a tax-funded, public road to travel from one point to another within the country of which I am a citizen.
This sounds like a story that needs to be told.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_interior_checkpoints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_interior_checkpoints)
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 08, 2014, 03:02:35 PM
I have to go outside the box on this one: I-25 north of Las Cruces, New Mexico. Why? I don't appreciate feeling intimidated into consenting to a warrantless search of my private property by people with guns when I'm simply trying to use a tax-funded, public road to travel from one point to another within the country of which I am a citizen.
Yeah, I had that on I-5 between San Diego and L.A. But they had guns and badges and handcuffs, and all I had was my ACLU card. I didn't feel much like spending the weekend (or however long it took) in jail, so I tolerated the search.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 08, 2014, 05:54:06 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 08, 2014, 03:02:35 PM
I have to go outside the box on this one: I-25 north of Las Cruces, New Mexico. Why? I don't appreciate feeling intimidated into consenting to a warrantless search of my private property by people with guns when I'm simply trying to use a tax-funded, public road to travel from one point to another within the country of which I am a citizen.
This sounds like a story that needs to be told.
So does this:
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 08, 2014, 01:29:01 PM
Worst interstate drive I've ever experienced was I-24 from Chattanooga to Nashville after sunset on March 12, 1993.
Quote from: mefailenglish on June 08, 2014, 06:02:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 08, 2014, 05:54:06 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 08, 2014, 03:02:35 PM
I have to go outside the box on this one: I-25 north of Las Cruces, New Mexico. Why? I don't appreciate feeling intimidated into consenting to a warrantless search of my private property by people with guns when I'm simply trying to use a tax-funded, public road to travel from one point to another within the country of which I am a citizen.
This sounds like a story that needs to be told.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_interior_checkpoints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_interior_checkpoints)
That plus the convenient charge of "You look nervous" pretty much sums it up. So, I look nervous, huh? Excuse me for not being one of your easy-going, back-slapping, beer-drinking* buddies who will always greet you with a friendly smile and a firm handshake. Excuse me for not exactly feeling comfortable with a bunch of quasi-military-style checkpoints in the middle of the desert that aren't part of an actual border. Excuse me for thinking to myself, "What the fuck is this shit?" as I'm trying to figure out how to navigate a heavily patrolled booth in the middle of a road that receives no funding from toll revenue.
*I actually like beer, but only in the right context.
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 08, 2014, 10:30:15 PMExcuse me for thinking to myself, "What the fuck is this shit?" as I'm trying to figure out how to navigate a heavily patrolled booth in the middle of a road that receives no funding from toll revenue.
Was this your first encounter with a Border Patrol checkpoint?
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 09, 2014, 12:20:52 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 08, 2014, 10:30:15 PMExcuse me for thinking to myself, "What the fuck is this shit?" as I'm trying to figure out how to navigate a heavily patrolled booth in the middle of a road that receives no funding from toll revenue.
Was this your first encounter with a Border Patrol checkpoint?
Is fascism more acceptable because it's been around for a few years?
Quote from: hbelkins on June 08, 2014, 07:56:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 08, 2014, 05:54:06 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 08, 2014, 03:02:35 PM
I have to go outside the box on this one: I-25 north of Las Cruces, New Mexico. Why? I don't appreciate feeling intimidated into consenting to a warrantless search of my private property by people with guns when I'm simply trying to use a tax-funded, public road to travel from one point to another within the country of which I am a citizen.
This sounds like a story that needs to be told.
So does this:
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 08, 2014, 01:29:01 PM
Worst interstate drive I've ever experienced was I-24 from Chattanooga to Nashville after sunset on March 12, 1993.
Here is the Wikipedia entry to refresh your memory on the weather conditions at the time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Storm_of_the_Century
I was a college freshman returning to Indiana from Spring Break in Florida. I think they stopped even letting cars leave Chattanooga within an hour after we left. Tailgating semis is the only thing that kept us from ending up stuck in the middle of Tennessee. One of my roommates ended up stuck in Alabama and spent three days/nights in a Burger King.
Quote from: kkt on June 09, 2014, 12:59:28 AMIs fascism more acceptable because it's been around for a few years?
I am very keen to hear whether this was Stridentweasel's first transit through a Border Patrol checkpoint because it has been my own experience that his reaction--mainly consternation that we allow such a flagrant apparent violation of the Fourth Amendment well within our own borders--is a first-time response. The US-Mexico border runs through very isolated terrain, with no major metropolitan areas straddling the border other than El Paso/Juárez and San Diego/Tijuana. There are therefore very few Americans that have direct experience of Border Patrol checkpoints as a routine part of ordinary life. Most Americans travelling to the border from further within the US encounter a Border Patrol checkpoint long before they cross the Mexican border, become aware of the more intrusive kilometer-thirty internal frontier checkpoints, and have an opportunity to reconsider our checkpoints in the light of reciprocity. For a substantial proportion of these people, a Border Patrol checkpoint is probably also their first contact with a formal exception to our civil rights as usually taught in middle-school civics class.
To answer your question, fascism is an ideology while Border Patrol internal checkpoints are an institutional norm. We have had checkpoints for more than 70 years, under Presidents and congressional control of different parties. This is not to say that they are right, proper, or even effective at their stated purpose of suppressing illegal immigration and interdicting contraband. It is merely to say that they are a fixed part of the legal landscape. In that respect they are like the continuing use of the Reid technique in custodial interrogations, despite an increasing weight of evidence showing it is responsible for large numbers of innocent people being jailed on false confessions.
Look no further than the Kennedy Expressway (90/94) from O'Hare to I-55 during rush hour, in the rain, on a Friday afternoon. No accidents too, just volume. I said screw it after one hour and got off at the Addison exit, headed east to the Drive to get into downtown.
Normal drive time with no traffic: 20 minutes
That day I drove it: 2 hours, 9 minutes on the time stamps and traffic reports.
attempting to drive I-95 through NJ the first time.
"where the fuck am I???"
One time a few years ago (I think it was either 2010 or 2011), I was riding down to Port St. Joe, FL along I-65 through the Birmingham Metro Area. As soon as we passed downtown, the traffic slowed to a crawl all the way through southern Birmingham, Hoover, and Pelham (and possibly Alabaster too) due to road work
On our way back to Huntsville, traffic slowed to a crawl a little bit north of Montgomery because of a bad wreck.
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 09, 2014, 07:50:53 AM
Here is the Wikipedia entry to refresh your memory on the weather conditions at the time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Storm_of_the_Century
I was a college freshman returning to Indiana from Spring Break in Florida. I think they stopped even letting cars leave Chattanooga within an hour after we left. Tailgating semis is the only thing that kept us from ending up stuck in the middle of Tennessee. One of my roommates ended up stuck in Alabama and spent three days/nights in a Burger King.
We had about two feet of snow from that storm. I remember it because the SEC Tournament was being played at Rupp Arena but it didn't stop 23,000 fans from attending to watch the UK games, but I didn't realize there was a lot of snow that far west and south.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 09, 2014, 11:03:29 AM
Quote from: kkt on June 09, 2014, 12:59:28 AMIs fascism more acceptable because it's been around for a few years?
I am very keen to hear whether this was Stridentweasel's first transit through a Border Patrol checkpoint because it has been my own experience that his reaction--mainly consternation that we allow such a flagrant apparent violation of the Fourth Amendment well within our own borders--is a first-time response. The US-Mexico border runs through very isolated terrain, with no major metropolitan areas straddling the border other than El Paso/Juárez and San Diego/Tijuana. There are therefore very few Americans that have direct experience of Border Patrol checkpoints as a routine part of ordinary life. Most Americans travelling to the border from further within the US encounter a Border Patrol checkpoint long before they cross the Mexican border, become aware of the more intrusive kilometer-thirty internal frontier checkpoints, and have an opportunity to reconsider our checkpoints in the light of reciprocity. For a substantial proportion of these people, a Border Patrol checkpoint is probably also their first contact with a formal exception to our civil rights as usually taught in middle-school civics class.
To answer your question, fascism is an ideology while Border Patrol internal checkpoints are an institutional norm. We have had checkpoints for more than 70 years, under Presidents and congressional control of different parties. This is not to say that they are right, proper, or even effective at their stated purpose of suppressing illegal immigration and interdicting contraband. It is merely to say that they are a fixed part of the legal landscape. In that respect they are like the continuing use of the Reid technique in custodial interrogations, despite an increasing weight of evidence showing it is responsible for large numbers of innocent people being jailed on false confessions.
To answer your question, it actually wasn't my first encounter with an interior checkpoint, but it was the first, and so far only, trip in which I encountered such an operation of questionable intent. My first encounter with a within-U.S.-borders checkpoint was the California border checkpoint on I-40. I knew about these in advance, though, and was under the impression that they were there to check vehicles for bags of produce, so I didn't question it. My first encounter with a U.S. Border Patrol Question-and-Answer Friendship House was actually on I-8 near Yuma, Arizona, on the same trip. I didn't know what it was at first, and I mistakenly thought that perhaps California also had checkpoints on exit, so I simply rolled the window down to see what the guy wanted, he asked me how I was, I said I was fine, and then he said to drive through. I thought something along the lines of, "Well, that didn't seem like a necessary booth; I wonder that the real purpose of that is," but after that, I put it in the back of my mind. I think I recall, later on the same trip, seeing one on the westbound lanes of I-10 in New Mexico, when I was going eastbound. "Jesus, what's with these things?" was probably the most articulate internal dialogue I could muster at the time.
When I finally reached the one on NB I-25, my reaction was, "Really, I have to go through
another one?" combined with the obligatory "WTF!?" Unlike your garden-variety toll booth, where there are clear instructions on what to do, whether you take a ticket or pay a toll, which lane to be in, how much to pay, how fast to go, etc., these checkpoints have a striking lack of instructions, plus they have almost no architectural clues to suggest to motorists what the standard protocol is. So, I rolled my window down to see what they wanted. I was already confused when I saw someone else drive through
without rolling the window down. I was asked to open my trunk, so I thought, "Um, okay, it's like California, I guess," so I tried to open my trunk, only this time I hadn't thought to put the car in park, and I had forgotten that the trunk doesn't open when it's not in park. So my internal reaction was, "Oh shit, these guys have guns, and I've already pissed them off by forgetting how to open the trunk!" My next moment of shock came when I had finally gotten the trunk open, and I immediately saw a big, beige, bushy tail in my rear-view mirror. It sprang out of my trunk so soon after I had opened it that it seemed like an automobile dystopia variant of pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
Next came the an array of classic lines such as "You look nervous" and "Do you mind if we search your car?" plus a seemingly endless string of questioning, with some of the questions repeated. I didn't know whether I had a choice (and I still don't know whether I really did, the law aside). Not wanting to end up in a rendition camp, I figured I had better comply with these armed, seemingly angry creatures and whatever sense of divine authority they thought they might have. After they had talked me out of the car, I was apparently standing
too close to the car (you know, you don't want to be too close to something you own!), so they barked at me to get away from it and then get inside their building. That's when the terror really set in and I first started to doubt whether I'd actually make it home. The totality of the questioning, which occurred throughout the whole event, included several strings of words seemingly designed to get me to admit to having pot in the car, even though they were probably careful to fall shy of the legal definition of entrapment. This school counselor's office meeting went on for 20 minutes until they finally told me I could go. Imagine that! I'm a U.S. citizen, driving a car I own, on a public highway I helped pay for by purchasing gasoline, I've been charged with breaking no law whatsoever--and I can go! It sure is a free country after all!
Driver's ed. courses should really have lawyers come in and teach kids how to stand up to this nonsense. Or maybe maps and GPS systems should have all of these inspection stations pin-pointed--it seems like something the average motorist
might want to know. Or both.
Stridentweasel--many thanks for the detailed account. The experience you had sounds quite traumatic and is far worse than any checkpoint transit I have done, including the one where I was in a borrowed car, thought I was being waved on, and moved forward, only to look up in the rearview mirror and see agents in hot pursuit.
QuoteDriver's ed. courses should really have lawyers come in and teach kids how to stand up to this nonsense. Or maybe maps and GPS systems should have all of these inspection stations pin-pointed--it seems like something the average motorist might want to know. Or both.
Agreed on both--however, there are certain practical difficulties. About half of the checkpoints are mobile, though some states (like Texas) provide permanent infrastructure at fixed locations which is used when the Border Patrol is in the neighborhood and running a checkpoint. This means that GPS mapping of checkpoints would need to be updated in real time.
Returning to your account:
* Checkpoint on I-40--this is California agricultural inspection.
* Checkpoint on I-8 (probably at Telegraph Pass)--this is a Border Patrol checkpoint. I believe it is a permanent checkpoint and that Arizona DOT provides guide signing for it, but it is possible the signs had not been installed when you passed through. (I think the contract to install them was advertised sometime in the last couple of years.)
* Checkpoint on I-10--this is another Border Patrol checkpoint, near Columbus, New Mexico. It has permanent infrastructure (probably provided by NMDOT) that includes a canopy and a double-wide for the agents, but it is operated as a temporary checkpoint, so traffic is coned off I-10 without explanation.
* Checkpoint on I-25--I suspect this is a temporary checkpoint similar to the one on I-10, but I have never actually gone through it myself (in fact, I have not travelled the length of I-25 between US 70 at Las Cruces and the NM 26 interchange at Hatch).
Now, in regard to the choices you had when you were stopped and questioned, the basic rule is that any searches they do must be with your consent unless they have probable cause. The main exception to this is certain limited searches that can be done on the basis of reasonable suspicion (per the Supreme Court ruling in
Terry v. Ohio), such as a frisk of outer garments for weapons. In the absence of probable cause, you are not required to open your trunk, give them access to any part of your car that is not in plain sight, or allow them to search your vehicle. They are, however, allowed to bring a drug dog near your car since that is not considered a search. You are not required to answer their questions unless you are not a US citizen, in which case you must tell them so. The most they are allowed to do on the basis of reasonable suspicion is to detain you briefly and try to develop probable cause for arrest or further detention by questioning you (typically in a manner that presupposes your guilt) or pressuring you to agree to searches you are not required to consent to.
Probably the best way to go through a Border Patrol checkpoint without unnecessary compromise of your constitutional protection against unreasonable search is to be politely defiant, like this woman:
http://www.gvnews.com/news/local/woman-challenges-border-patrol-checkpoint-and-wins/article_775d83f8-3391-11e3-9f6f-001a4bcf887a.html
The problem with this approach is that there is a small chance that Border Patrol agents will react by illegally detaining you or searching your effects--in general, by misbehaving until someone (generally a federal judge if the misbehavior doesn't stop with the AUSA) tells them to stop. This risk is easier to swallow if you already live in the border area. If you live far away, have a schedule to keep, and know there is nothing for them to find, then compliance is the safer bet, even if this means your rights get trampled on.
My one encounter with the Border Patrol was when my wife and I flew into El Paso and drove to Ruidoso NM for a vacation. There was a northbound checkpoint on US 54 (may still be there) just north of the NM/Texas border. It took all of ten seconds. The agent asked where we were born, we told them, and they said "Have a nice day."
Quote from: hbelkins on June 09, 2014, 05:55:23 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 09, 2014, 07:50:53 AM
Here is the Wikipedia entry to refresh your memory on the weather conditions at the time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Storm_of_the_Century
I was a college freshman returning to Indiana from Spring Break in Florida. I think they stopped even letting cars leave Chattanooga within an hour after we left. Tailgating semis is the only thing that kept us from ending up stuck in the middle of Tennessee. One of my roommates ended up stuck in Alabama and spent three days/nights in a Burger King.
We had about two feet of snow from that storm. I remember it because the SEC Tournament was being played at Rupp Arena but it didn't stop 23,000 fans from attending to watch the UK games, but I didn't realize there was a lot of snow that far west and south.
Sorry, I forgot to make my post Kentucky-friendly by linking the date to a college basketball event.
Hmm, the worst Interstate drive I experienced was easily a traffic accident on I-278 in Staten Island, NY that shut down the entire side of the road we were traveling on. My family and I were going into Brooklyn to visit family, and as soon as we got to the directional T interchange with I-278 (and NY 440), traffic grinded to a halt. It would take almost an hour to get less than 4 miles. The culprit was someone who managed to obliterate the guardrail on the highway traveling east, and blocking almost all the lanes of traffic on the eastbound side.
Quote from: Zeffy on June 10, 2014, 11:29:23 AM
Hmm, the worst Interstate drive I experienced was easily a traffic accident on I-278 in Staten Island, NY that shut down the entire side of the road we were traveling on. My family and I were going into Brooklyn to visit family, and as soon as we got to the directional T interchange with I-278 (and NY 440), traffic grinded to a halt. It would take almost an hour to get less than 4 miles. The culprit was someone who managed to obliterate the guardrail on the highway traveling east, and blocking almost all the lanes of traffic on the eastbound side.
Four miles in an hour? Wow, I usually average at least 10 mph there.
Quote from: SidS1045 on June 10, 2014, 11:03:55 AM
My one encounter with the Border Patrol was when my wife and I flew into El Paso and drove to Ruidoso NM for a vacation. There was a northbound checkpoint on US 54 (may still be there) just north of the NM/Texas border. It took all of ten seconds. The agent asked where we were born, we told them, and they said "Have a nice day."
yep, the checkpoint is still there.
generally speaking, the only places there are checkpoints is where you head away from what is defined to be the "border zone". if you draw on a map every checkpoint, including its direction, you will note that they all head generally away from the border. this indeed includes I-8 eastbound at either Telegraph Pass or the appropriately named Sentinel (they vary it up), as the Arizona/Sonora border takes a southeast angle while I-8 keeps heading almost exactly due east.
the one exception to this rule is between exits 51 and 47 on I-8 westbound in California: Pine Valley, and its corresponding checkpoint on old US-80. this one just plain sucks, as it is very hard to avoid, and I get caught in it every time I am returning home, as opposed to departing. it's the only one that is not at a logical exit of a well-defined border zone.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 10, 2014, 11:56:02 AM
Quote from: SidS1045 on June 10, 2014, 11:03:55 AM
My one encounter with the Border Patrol was when my wife and I flew into El Paso and drove to Ruidoso NM for a vacation. There was a northbound checkpoint on US 54 (may still be there) just north of the NM/Texas border. It took all of ten seconds. The agent asked where we were born, we told them, and they said "Have a nice day."
yep, the checkpoint is still there.
generally speaking, the only places there are checkpoints is where you head away from what is defined to be the "border zone". if you draw on a map every checkpoint, including its direction, you will note that they all head generally away from the border. this indeed includes I-8 eastbound at either Telegraph Pass or the appropriately named Sentinel (they vary it up), as the Arizona/Sonora border takes a southeast angle while I-8 keeps heading almost exactly due east.
the one exception to this rule is between exits 51 and 47 on I-8 westbound in California: Pine Valley, and its corresponding checkpoint on old US-80. this one just plain sucks, as it is very hard to avoid, and I get caught in it every time I am returning home, as opposed to departing. it's the only one that is not at a logical exit of a well-defined border zone.
That's the only one I've hit. I guess it's between a sparsely populated border region and major metropolis (San Diego).
Are there still border patrol checkpoints on 91 in Vermont below White River Junction?
My worst interstate drive was probably this past winter, driving home from work in a snowstorm. For the entire 41 mile drive I averaged 7 mph, much of that sitting driving on I-295.
Regarding the more entertaining subject of border patrols, the only intra-America one I encountered was on I-87, about an hour or so south of Canada, which compared to what the others have encountered near Mexico was enjoyably calm. I saw it while driving north to Montreal for the final Phillies series against the Expos, so I was prepared for it on the way back.
Returning from Montreal, I got a very friendly Canada/US border agent who was a Philly sports fan...in fact, he was able to tell me about the Eagles game that was played earlier that day which I hadn't seen. Leaving there, sure enough about an hour later, I found the I-87 patrol still on the highway. The women that stopped me saw me in my Phillies gear, and after encountering several thousand other Phillies fans returning from Montreal as well, was quite pleasant. She was almost apologetic that she still had to ask me the mandatory questions she was required to ask.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 10, 2014, 12:01:30 PM
Are there still border patrol checkpoints on 91 in Vermont below White River Junction?
I had no idea that there ever was one. that said, I have not driven I-91 very many times. I would imagine this checkpoint would be fairly easy to avoid by taking US-5 strategically - or, in general, any number of roads. Vermont, unlike certain parts of the southwest, has a pretty well-connected road network.
the only northern border checkpoint I know of is the one on I-87 mentioned by jeffandnicole.
The Border Patrol actually operates on both the northern and southern border--it is just that the southern border gets the majority of the manpower resources, and there is no real attempt to enforce a completely nonporous zone around the northern border. The Border Patrol Museum near El Paso (which is well worth a visit, if only to get a sense of how the agency and its personnel justify bothering US citizens at internal checkpoints) has historic photos of a checkpoint near Pembina, North Dakota. I dimly remember that the accompanying exhibit label noted that contraband seizures per vehicle passing through the checkpoint are actually higher on the northern than on the southern border.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 10, 2014, 12:50:26 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 10, 2014, 12:01:30 PM
Are there still border patrol checkpoints on 91 in Vermont below White River Junction?
I had no idea that there ever was one. that said, I have not driven I-91 very many times. I would imagine this checkpoint would be fairly easy to avoid by taking US-5 strategically - or, in general, any number of roads. Vermont, unlike certain parts of the southwest, has a pretty well-connected road network.
the only northern border checkpoint I know of is the one on I-87 mentioned by jeffandnicole.
It was put in place after 9/11 when there had been some talk of nefarious persons crossing into New England from Canada. It remained there sporadically for at least several years, though I have no idea if it is still ever used. I never saw it myself.
I do remember there being a lot of public surprise at a border checkpoint so far inland, but apparently this is within their hundred mile jurisdiction from the border.
The I-87 border checkpoints were the scene of at least two serious multi-vehicle pileups in the mid 2000s
http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2005/HAB0503.pdf
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 10, 2014, 02:14:52 PMIt was put in place after 9/11 when there had been some talk of nefarious persons crossing into New England from Canada. It remained there sporadically for at least several years, though I have no idea if it is still ever used. I never saw it myself.
The I-87 Hudson checkpoint did see more intensive use after 9/11, but (per the NTSB report linked to in Roadman's post upthread) has been in operation since 1988. A contributing factor to the two 2004 accidents discussed in the report was a lack of signage advising motorists of an upcoming obligatory stop for Border Patrol inspection.
From memory, the standard advance signing sequence for Border Patrol checkpoints in Texas says just "Inspection" without stating specifically that the Border Patrol is the inspecting agency, while the advance signing for the Telegraph Pass checkpoint on I-8 in Arizona does say "Border Patrol."
Edit: Now confirmed--the current I-8 Telegraph Pass signs were installed as part of Arizona DOT TRACS H774701C (an I-8 sign rehabilitation job). The approximate sequence is as follows:
* Three mentions of "Inspection Sta" on interchange sequence and confirmation signs, beginning from 6 1/4 miles away
* "
US BORDER PATROL Inspection Station 1 MILE"
* "US BORDER PATROL INSPECTION STATION AHEAD -- BE PREPARED TO STOP"
Other border states could do far worse than copy Arizona's approach.
Edit II: Thinking about the NTSB report some more, it sounds like the Hudson checkpoint has no permanent facilities. Instead, the Border Patrol uses the High Peaks rest area as a staging point; the New York State Police also uses the same rest area to carry out commercial vehicle enforcement. Given the Border Patrol's desperately unprofessional approach to temporary checkpoints (for example, they slap vague messages like "US OFFICERS" on homemade signs whose sloppiness would embarrass a first grader), it is surprising there haven't been more problems at Hudson.
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 09, 2014, 10:22:48 PM
Next came the an array of classic lines such as "You look nervous" and "Do you mind if we search your car?" plus a seemingly endless string of questioning, with some of the questions repeated.
I just got back from a 10,000 mile loop from Florida, up to Cleveland, across to San Fran, down to San Diego, and back to Florida via DFW and Little Rock. I went through several border patrol checkpoints because I took roads down to the border to visit National Park Service units (Organ Pipe Cactus, Tumacacori, Coronado, etc.). My experiences varied from a cursory glance and a wave-through, to a few questions about my Florida license plate and my trip. This was at the checkpoint going out US 62/180 from El Paso to Guadalupe Mtns NP and, as it turned out, the agent happened to be from the same city I live in now.
However, heading west on I-80, I got pulled over for "speeding". (Okay, I had the cruise set at ~78 in a 75, and I didn't do a brake check when I saw the cop sitting in the median. So I was certainly in the wrong. But, there were three of us in a line, there was no tailgating going on, and he picked me instead of the two 18-wheelers.) The cop was nice at first, said he was only going to give me a warning. Then, he went through the same song and dance that stridentweasel describes upthread. He even went as far as to read me my Miranda rights, though I was never formally charged with anything. Turned out he pulled me over because of my Florida tag (well, he didn't state it outright, but highly hinted at it), thought I was drug running between FL and San Fran. My story ends much like stridentweasel, with me standing in the grass while my car was searched. After he found nothing but clothes, maps, and NPS brochures, I was finally sent on my way. I did some googling that night and found a story where they actually did find drugs in a car so I guess they feel enabled to keep up this practice. (The cop had a dog in the back; why didn't he just walk the dog around my car and let me go instead of wasting 20+ minutes of my life?)
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 10, 2014, 03:39:06 PM
Other border states could do far worse than copy Arizona's approach.
They, and the Feds could do better. Just remove the damn checkpoints and stop violating the 4th and 5th Amendments.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 09, 2014, 11:37:40 PM
Stridentweasel--many thanks for the detailed account. The experience you had sounds quite traumatic and is far worse than any checkpoint transit I have done, including the one where I was in a borrowed car, thought I was being waved on, and moved forward, only to look up in the rearview mirror and see agents in hot pursuit.
Wow, I think that scenario wins in terms of the Border Patrol's complete lack of clarity in instructing motorists how to proceed through those things!
Quote
* Checkpoint on I-25--I suspect this is a temporary checkpoint similar to the one on I-10, but I have never actually gone through it myself (in fact, I have not travelled the length of I-25 between US 70 at Las Cruces and the NM 26 interchange at Hatch).
I'm pretty sure that, technically, it was a temporary checkpoint, because there was an identical one several miles north, closer to Truth or Consequences (now
there's an apt name: the Truth or Consequences Checkpoint!), but it was closed at the time. I figured they alternated between the two. The format of both these checkpoints is what I would describe as being nearly identical to that of a barrier toll plaza with high-speed ETC lanes on the mainline and a traditional toll plaza on the right-hand side. At each of these two checkpoints, the freeway mainline was unobstructed by any permanent apparatus, but when the checkpoint was
open, the mainline was blocked off, and all traffic had to exit to the right to go through the checkpoint.
I think the New Mexico ones were signed simply as "Inspection Station," but I seem to remember the Arizona one having better signage (it's possible that the Arizona one even said "U.S. Border Patrol" when I drove through, and I just didn't understand
why at the time). Still, I don't remember any signage at any of the checkpoints themselves that told motorists
what to do.
Quote
Now, in regard to the choices you had when you were stopped and questioned, the basic rule is that any searches they do must be with your consent unless they have probable cause.
Thank you for the tips. I did actually seek some trustworthy advice from a personal contact, shortly after the incident. I certainly appreciate your additional input.
I've never had any problem at the internal checkpoints, but I hate them. If the Border Patrol did their job at the border there would be no need to have a second checkpoint further in.
The only internal checkpoint that I went through relatively regularly was the checkpoint near Camp Pendleton on I-5 between San Diego and L.A.
78 is too fast in New Mexico - they can suspend your license for 3 over in a 75 zone. The thought behind this is 75 is fast enough.
A lot of out of staters find this out the same way you and I did.
Quote from: mefailenglish on June 10, 2014, 04:22:53 PM
I just got back from a 10,000 mile loop from Florida, up to Cleveland, across to San Fran, down to San Diego, and back to Florida via DFW and Little Rock. I went through several border patrol checkpoints because I took roads down to the border to visit National Park Service units (Organ Pipe Cactus, Tumacacori, Coronado, etc.). My experiences varied from a cursory glance and a wave-through, to a few questions about my Florida license plate and my trip. This was at the checkpoint going out US 62/180 from El Paso to Guadalupe Mtns NP and, as it turned out, the agent happened to be from the same city I live in now.
However, heading west on I-80, I got pulled over for "speeding". (Okay, I had the cruise set at ~78 in a 75, and I didn't do a brake check when I saw the cop sitting in the median. So I was certainly in the wrong. But, there were three of us in a line, there was no tailgating going on, and he picked me instead of the two 18-wheelers.) The cop was nice at first, said he was only going to give me a warning. Then, he went through the same song and dance that stridentweasel describes upthread. He even went as far as to read me my Miranda rights, though I was never formally charged with anything. Turned out he pulled me over because of my Florida tag (well, he didn't state it outright, but highly hinted at it), thought I was drug running between FL and San Fran. My story ends much like stridentweasel, with me standing in the grass while my car was searched. After he found nothing but clothes, maps, and NPS brochures, I was finally sent on my way. I did some googling that night and found a story where they actually did find drugs in a car so I guess they feel enabled to keep up this practice. (The cop had a dog in the back; why didn't he just walk the dog around my car and let me go instead of wasting 20+ minutes of my life?)
However, heading west on I-80, I got pulled over for "speeding". (Okay, I had the cruise set at ~78 in a 75, and I didn't do a brake check when I saw the cop sitting in the median. So I was certainly in the wrong. But, there were three of us in a line, there was no tailgating going on, and he picked me instead of the two 18-wheelers.) The cop was nice at first, said he was only going to give me a warning. Then, he went through the same song and dance that stridentweasel describes upthread. He even went as far as to read me my Miranda rights, though I was never formally charged with anything. Turned out he pulled me over because of my Florida tag (well, he didn't state it outright, but highly hinted at it), thought I was drug running between FL and San Fran. My story ends much like stridentweasel, with me standing in the grass while my car was searched. After he found nothing but clothes, maps, and NPS brochures, I was finally sent on my way. I did some googling that night and found a story where they actually did find drugs in a car so I guess they feel enabled to keep up this practice. (The cop had a dog in the back; why didn't he just walk the dog around my car and let me go instead of wasting 20+ minutes of my life?)
[/quote]
QuoteI did some googling that night and found a story where they actually did find drugs in a car so I guess they feel enabled to keep up this practice.
Well, yes, until someone sues them. Finding drugs in a single car one time somewhere isn't a valid reason to search every car.
Quote from: mefailenglish on June 10, 2014, 04:22:53 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 09, 2014, 10:22:48 PM
Next came the an array of classic lines such as "You look nervous" and "Do you mind if we search your car?" plus a seemingly endless string of questioning, with some of the questions repeated.
I just got back from a 10,000 mile loop from Florida, up to Cleveland, across to San Fran, down to San Diego, and back to Florida via DFW and Little Rock. I went through several border patrol checkpoints because I took roads down to the border to visit National Park Service units (Organ Pipe Cactus, Tumacacori, Coronado, etc.). My experiences varied from a cursory glance and a wave-through, to a few questions about my Florida license plate and my trip. This was at the checkpoint going out US 62/180 from El Paso to Guadalupe Mtns NP and, as it turned out, the agent happened to be from the same city I live in now.
However, heading west on I-80, I got pulled over for "speeding". (Okay, I had the cruise set at ~78 in a 75, and I didn't do a brake check when I saw the cop sitting in the median. So I was certainly in the wrong. But, there were three of us in a line, there was no tailgating going on, and he picked me instead of the two 18-wheelers.) The cop was nice at first, said he was only going to give me a warning. Then, he went through the same song and dance that stridentweasel describes upthread. He even went as far as to read me my Miranda rights, though I was never formally charged with anything. Turned out he pulled me over because of my Florida tag (well, he didn't state it outright, but highly hinted at it), thought I was drug running between FL and San Fran. My story ends much like stridentweasel, with me standing in the grass while my car was searched. After he found nothing but clothes, maps, and NPS brochures, I was finally sent on my way. I did some googling that night and found a story where they actually did find drugs in a car so I guess they feel enabled to keep up this practice. (The cop had a dog in the back; why didn't he just walk the dog around my car and let me go instead of wasting 20+ minutes of my life?)
Why did you relinquish your rights? Never allow a law enforcement officer to search your vehicle. It is you right not to.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 11, 2014, 10:27:37 AM
Quote from: mefailenglish on June 10, 2014, 04:22:53 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 09, 2014, 10:22:48 PM
Next came the an array of classic lines such as "You look nervous" and "Do you mind if we search your car?" plus a seemingly endless string of questioning, with some of the questions repeated.
I just got back from a 10,000 mile loop from Florida, up to Cleveland, across to San Fran, down to San Diego, and back to Florida via DFW and Little Rock. I went through several border patrol checkpoints because I took roads down to the border to visit National Park Service units (Organ Pipe Cactus, Tumacacori, Coronado, etc.). My experiences varied from a cursory glance and a wave-through, to a few questions about my Florida license plate and my trip. This was at the checkpoint going out US 62/180 from El Paso to Guadalupe Mtns NP and, as it turned out, the agent happened to be from the same city I live in now.
However, heading west on I-80, I got pulled over for "speeding". (Okay, I had the cruise set at ~78 in a 75, and I didn't do a brake check when I saw the cop sitting in the median. So I was certainly in the wrong. But, there were three of us in a line, there was no tailgating going on, and he picked me instead of the two 18-wheelers.) The cop was nice at first, said he was only going to give me a warning. Then, he went through the same song and dance that stridentweasel describes upthread. He even went as far as to read me my Miranda rights, though I was never formally charged with anything. Turned out he pulled me over because of my Florida tag (well, he didn't state it outright, but highly hinted at it), thought I was drug running between FL and San Fran. My story ends much like stridentweasel, with me standing in the grass while my car was searched. After he found nothing but clothes, maps, and NPS brochures, I was finally sent on my way. I did some googling that night and found a story where they actually did find drugs in a car so I guess they feel enabled to keep up this practice. (The cop had a dog in the back; why didn't he just walk the dog around my car and let me go instead of wasting 20+ minutes of my life?)
Why did you relinquish your rights? Never allow a law enforcement officer to search your vehicle. It is you right not to.
In many law enforcement officer's eyes, it's a Catch-22. If the motorist doesn't allow law enforcement to search, that's because they have something to hide. It's suspicious and grounds for a search.
Quote from: kkt on June 11, 2014, 12:38:16 PM
In many law enforcement officer's eyes, it's a Catch-22. If the motorist doesn't allow law enforcement to search, that's because they have something to hide. It's suspicious and grounds for a search.
That's what I was going to say. They'll kick the dog to make it bark and then use that as probable cause.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 11, 2014, 12:43:06 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 11, 2014, 12:38:16 PM
In many law enforcement officer's eyes, it's a Catch-22. If the motorist doesn't allow law enforcement to search, that's because they have something to hide. It's suspicious and grounds for a search.
That's what I was going to say. They'll kick the dog to make it bark and then use that as probable cause.
It's very easy to cry "rights!" when you're not at the side of the road being harassed.
It pains me to say it, but if you can be sure there is nothing for them to find, allowing them to search usually costs less in lost time and money. They don't have to carry out the search by the side of the road--they can detain you and damage your car towing it to an impound facility. Some of the resulting costs can be claimed back through the courts since police misconduct is covered by various torts, but what the courts cannot and will not do is compensate you for the time and stress of suing the police, by "remote control" if you do not even live in the jurisdiction.
Most states have some residue of sovereign immunity and this can further restrict your ability to claim compensation for police misbehavior. Also, if the police are not acting alone but are working with a DA who is abusing prosecutorial discretion (think Linda Fairstein and the Central Park Five, or the Tenaha forfeiture conspiracy), then you have the doctrine of prosecutorial immunity to contend with.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 11, 2014, 12:44:36 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 11, 2014, 12:43:06 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 11, 2014, 12:38:16 PM
In many law enforcement officer's eyes, it's a Catch-22. If the motorist doesn't allow law enforcement to search, that's because they have something to hide. It's suspicious and grounds for a search.
That's what I was going to say. They'll kick the dog to make it bark and then use that as probable cause.
It's very easy to cry "rights!" when you're not at the side of the road being harassed.
It's actually very easy, even if you are on the side of the road being harassed. "Are you detaining me for probable cause? Am I free to go?"
This is a textbook-perfect illustration of how our rights are frittered away, by degree, until they're gone for good. Allowing a search because it's somehow "easier" or "costs less" makes me gag.
The first line of defense of our constitutional rights is...us. If we don't make a stand...if we don't make our representatives in government understand how important our rights are...if we don't stand up for them every single time, without fail, then those rights exist only on paper. Or to put it another way... (see signature)
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 10, 2014, 02:14:52 PM
I do remember there being a lot of public surprise at a border checkpoint so far inland, but apparently this is within their hundred mile jurisdiction from the border.
I feel like I'm the only one that has noticed - or is at the very least outraged by - the fact that I've seen border patrol operating in Needles, CA. you'd really have to fuck with the fabric of spacetime to call that "less than 100 miles from the border".
Quote from: SidS1045 on June 11, 2014, 01:45:17 PMIt's actually very easy, even if you are on the side of the road being harassed. "Are you detaining me for probable cause? Am I free to go?"
Easy to say. Not so easy when they respond by blanking the questions, reading you your Miranda rights, taking you to their detention facility, and towing your vehicle to their impound lot (probably doing expensive-to-repair damage in the process).
QuoteThis is a textbook-perfect illustration of how our rights are frittered away, by degree, until they're gone for good. Allowing a search because it's somehow "easier" or "costs less" makes me gag.
If your reaction is one of disgust (and I am not saying that is an unreasonable response), then are you offering financial support to those who have incurred heavy costs while asserting their constitutional rights? Do you donate to the ACLU, for example?
QuoteIt's actually very easy, even if you are on the side of the road being harassed. "Are you detaining me for probable cause? Am I free to go?"
I had to do this in Soda Springs, Idaho a few months ago when I was pulled over for, not for failure to activate my blinker, but failure to activate my blinker for a full five seconds prior to making a lane change on Idaho 34 just north of US 30 before it turns east. Cop pulled me over, said immediately that he wasn't going to give me a ticket, but asked for my license anyway. Ran my license, a second cop car pulls up behind him. Cop 1 comes back, asks for my registration while visually snooping around my car, asking questions about where I'm going and why I'm travelling. He takes my registration, talks to Cop 2, then they ask me to step out of the vehicle.
Cop 1 then gives me back my license and registration and says "we would like to ask you a few more questions," I said "Am I free to go?" and the cop said "Yes" and as I started to walk away he says "We're wondering what's in your trunk." I said "You said I was free to go, right?" and he says "Yes, but we'd really like to take a look in your trunk." I said "You said I was free to go, right?" Cop says "Yes, but if you continue up the highway you will likely bump into some drug dogs at a checkpoint" (on Idaho 34 heading up to Wyoming, a road with basically no traffic). I said "You folks have a nice day" and walked back to my car- never did see those dogs.
That was the local Soda Springs yokels, and I will never give that town a dime more of my money (I had just bought lunch and gas there!). A google search indicates they do this (http://www.sodaspringspolice.com/1/post/2012/07/6-lbs-marijuana-from-traffic-stop.html) way too frequently (http://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/article_14222c7a-7547-11e2-a671-0019bb2963f4.html) for a town this small as a matter of course (http://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/article_d1ea6092-5c11-11e1-9e2e-001871e3ce6c.html) - if they've had three busts in the last year on alleged turn signal violations, think of how many innocent people they pulled over on alleged turn signal violations.
So it can be done- but from them I was strongly getting the vibe that they were full of shit and wouldn't do anything if I left. Because I was answering entirely unrelated questions (why is your car so clean? where did you get your car? Oh, you bought it from your Grandma, where does your Grandma live?), I think they thought I would just consent to a search, and by the time I got to that point I was already getting less nervous (which I was at first, you get pulled over for a weird reason and then a second cop car pulls up, I think everybody gets nervous- especially in a town that is barely large enough to have its own police department, and definitely isn't large enough to have two patrol officers on a Sunday afternoon) and more just pissed off. In other situations, I might not have been so willing to pull that.
Quote from: corco on June 11, 2014, 03:11:19 PMI had to do this in Soda Springs, Idaho a few months ago when I was pulled over for, not for failure to activate my blinker, but failure to activate my blinker for a full five seconds prior to making a lane change on Idaho 34 just north of US 30 before it turns east.
That right there is a giveaway it is a bogus stop. I haven't checked to see whether Idaho is an UVC direct adopter in this respect, but you are normally obliged to give only 100 ft advance notice with the turn signal on low-speed roadways, a value which increases to 300 ft on high-speed roadways. Five seconds at 60 MPH is 440 ft. Plus the usual enforcement standard for turn signal usage (as opposed to pretexting for drug stops) is turn signal seen to be on before the actual maneuver begins, with no attempt to measure distance.
Were the Soda Springs cops running video in their cruisers? I bet they weren't since footage would have been evidence a defense attorney could subpoena to get the traffic stop (and any other evidence found as a result of it) thrown out.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 11, 2014, 03:01:46 PMDo you donate to the ACLU, for example?
To the tune of several hundred dollars a year.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 11, 2014, 03:01:46 PMEasy to say. Not so easy when they respond by blanking the questions, reading you your Miranda rights, taking you to their detention facility, and towing your vehicle to their impound lot (probably doing expensive-to-repair damage in the process).
Those actions would answer my questions, but in that case, their probable cause had better be airtight, or I will own them. At this point in my life I don't care what it costs in time or money. We edge ever closer to a police state when crap like this continues to occur.
Quote from: SidS1045 on June 11, 2014, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 11, 2014, 12:44:36 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 11, 2014, 12:43:06 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 11, 2014, 12:38:16 PM
In many law enforcement officer's eyes, it's a Catch-22. If the motorist doesn't allow law enforcement to search, that's because they have something to hide. It's suspicious and grounds for a search.
That's what I was going to say. They'll kick the dog to make it bark and then use that as probable cause.
It's very easy to cry "rights!" when you're not at the side of the road being harassed.
It's actually very easy, even if you are on the side of the road being harassed. "Are you detaining me for probable cause? Am I free to go?"
This is a textbook-perfect illustration of how our rights are frittered away, by degree, until they're gone for good. Allowing a search because it's somehow "easier" or "costs less" makes me gag.
The first line of defense of our constitutional rights is...us. If we don't make a stand...if we don't make our representatives in government understand how important our rights are...if we don't stand up for them every single time, without fail, then those rights exist only on paper. Or to put it another way... (see signature)
There are tremendous personal risks in taking a principled stand on the side of the road to "defend liberty." There's really no way to fairly judge someone who decides those aren't risks they can't take unless you have been that person. The police and prosectuors need not convict you to complicate your life, just charge you. Society likes the simple answer that charged means guilty (why would they have charged you otherwise?). And for some segments of society, the likelihood of nuisance charges and likelihood of perceived guilt is a lot higher than average.
In a just and/or simple world this would not be a problem. In this one, regardless of the principles that are at stake, it's not enough to say that it's people's responsibility to put it all on the line because it's the right thing to do.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 11, 2014, 03:46:56 PM
Quote from: corco on June 11, 2014, 03:11:19 PMI had to do this in Soda Springs, Idaho a few months ago when I was pulled over for, not for failure to activate my blinker, but failure to activate my blinker for a full five seconds prior to making a lane change on Idaho 34 just north of US 30 before it turns east.
That right there is a giveaway it is a bogus stop. I haven't checked to see whether Idaho is an UVC direct adopter in this respect, but you are normally obliged to give only 100 ft advance notice with the turn signal on low-speed roadways, a value which increases to 300 ft on high-speed roadways. Five seconds at 60 MPH is 440 ft. Plus the usual enforcement standard for turn signal usage (as opposed to pretexting for drug stops) is turn signal seen to be on before the actual maneuver begins, with no attempt to measure distance.
Were the Soda Springs cops running video in their cruisers? I bet they weren't since footage would have been evidence a defense attorney could subpoena to get the traffic stop (and any other evidence found as a result of it) thrown out.
When I was in drivers ed in Idaho in 2003, we were taught 5 seconds or 100 feet, whichever is more and in this case 100 feet would be less as I wasn't going more than 25 or so, so it may have been valid, if what I was taught in drivers ed in Idaho is the law in Idaho.
As far as video, I'm not sure. The second cop said nothing though, it seemed like he was there as a witness, which possibly made my decision not to comply after I was told I was free to go riskier.
Billings to St Paul via I-94
Has anyone ever heard of this happening: Cop pulls a motorist over, says "I clocked you going five miles an hour over the speed limit. I'm inclined to let you off with a warning. Would you mind letting me take a look inside your car?" The implicit deal being, you consent to a search and I won't hit you with a bullshit ticket.
If this is a trick used by cops, I wonder if it's ever been challenged in court.
Quote from: SidS1045 on June 11, 2014, 04:16:33 PMAt this point in my life I don't care what it costs in time or money.
You have the luxury of economic and thus political power. Not everyone has that. And not surprisingly, it's the people who lack it that usually have the target on their back. The cops aren't stupid.
That is the tactic of both the 21st Judicial District Task Force and the Dickson Central Task Force as well. They operate on the same territory and they even butted heads with each other pulling up on each other's stops and trying to take them over.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 11, 2014, 01:48:40 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 10, 2014, 02:14:52 PM
I do remember there being a lot of public surprise at a border checkpoint so far inland, but apparently this is within their hundred mile jurisdiction from the border.
I feel like I'm the only one that has noticed - or is at the very least outraged by - the fact that I've seen border patrol operating in Needles, CA. you'd really have to fuck with the fabric of spacetime to call that "less than 100 miles from the border".
They might not need to be within 100 miles of the border there. All they need is for the agricultural checkpoint to radio that a car looks "suspicious" and then they have probable cause.
Sorry I can't recall the exact location, but an Interstate segment somewhere in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Maryland or maybe Ohio, anywhere it inclined up or down a mountain, the individual segments of pavement had settled somehow, and were level. The effect was it was like driving on a staircase. Relentlessly annoying. This would have been '92, give or take a few years. I suppose it has been asphalted or repaved by now.