I am getting mixed signals on what a Super-2 highway actually is.
Is a fully access controlled 2-laned road with intermittent passing lanes?
Is it any 2-lane highway with 10' shoulders and limited access control (and seemingly not even intermittent passing lanes)?
IS it a 2-lane with all of the future R.O.W. already purchased?
A combination of the all of it?
Is it something else all together?
What I read here is all over the place. I am just wondering what the consensus is.
My understanding is that your second question/definition best fits at minimum.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on November 08, 2023, 05:39:49 PM
My understanding is that your second question/definition best fits at minimum.
Ohio usage for Super 2 basically fits any new 2-lane alignment built since the 1960s. Controlled right-of-way with no access for adjacent property owners. 10-foot shoulders, although only 4-foot of that may be paved (full width is paved on newer builds). Passing lanes sometimes provided on steeper grades, but no requirement otherwise.
Ohio allows intersections on Super 2 roadways. In the last 20 years, turn lanes have generally been provided at intersections. Rarely interchanges, but sometimes there are quadrant roadways with overpasses over intersecting roadways.
PennDOT usage of the Super 2 term is basically just a 2-lane version of a freeway.
This is already a thread (which was also originally a topic split)
What is a Super-2, really? (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=19403.0)
(I'm not being snarky. It's actually a very valuable read on this topic.)
Quote from: bwana39 on November 08, 2023, 05:22:38 PMI am getting mixed signals on what a Super-2 highway actually is.
Is a fully access controlled 2-laned road with intermittent passing lanes?
Is it any 2-lane highway with 10' shoulders and limited access control (and seemingly not even intermittent passing lanes)?
IS it a 2-lane with all of the future R.O.W. already purchased?
A combination of the all of it?
Is it something else all together?
What I read here is all over the place. I am just wondering what the consensus is.
As others have alluded to, part of the confusion originates from there being a disconnect between the practitioner definition (two full-width lanes with full shoulders and occasional passing lanes, but not necessarily comprehensive grade separation) and the roadgeek definition (two lanes with full control of access).
Besides the thread Kphoger linked to, which hashes out the issue pretty thoroughly, there is a post (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=26934.msg2503099#msg2503099) quoting definitions from state DOT design references.
I think the best answer to your question is that us old-timers who remember these discussions sort of tiptoe around the lack of consensus.
A two lane road built to higher quality. Wide lanes, wide shoulders, good sight visibility, built for speed.
It does not have to be controlled access.
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 08, 2023, 08:21:27 PM
A two lane road built to higher quality. Wide lanes, wide shoulders, good sight visibility, built for speed.
It does not have to be controlled access.
So probably 1/3 of the FM roads in Texas.... (Tongue in Cheek)
The TXDOT definition makes a lot of sense. It would only include a minimal number of FM Roads, then again, there are also a handful of FM full freeways in Texas too.
http://onlinemanuals.txdot.gov/TxDOTOnlineManuals/TxDOTManuals/rdw/super_2_highways.htm
Quote from: bwana39 on November 09, 2023, 07:53:34 AMThe TXDOT definition makes a lot of sense. It would only include a minimal number of FM Roads, then again, there are also a handful of FM full freeways in Texas too.
http://onlinemanuals.txdot.gov/TxDOTOnlineManuals/TxDOTManuals/rdw/super_2_highways.htm
It is essentially a practitioner definition with no component for limitation of access, per the verbiage catering for high driveway density.
In Kansas, rural state highways (including Super Twos) are subject to KDOT's Access Management Policy (https://www.ksdot.gov/Assets/wwwksdotorg/bureaus/burTransPlan/AccessMgt/Access_Management_Policy_Jan2013.pdf). Even when there is no access control, a minimum spacing of 535 feet between adjacent driveways applies at 65 MPH.
A highway developed to Super Two standards in Kansas would ordinarily be subject at minimum to Access Control 3 (the lowest tier of limitation of access), which provides for refusal of new driveways to properties served by lower-function highways or that have other access available. Access Control 2 (upgradable, but not with a freeway as the ultimate configuration) limits new accesses to public roads only, and Access Control 1 (upgradable, including to full freeway) additionally requires minimum spacing of two miles.
To me, a Super-2 has everything you'd expect to see on a four-lane freeway, just without the second carriageway. Lots of Interstates started out this way, including I-49 around Bella Vista.
K-14/96 in Rice and Reno Counties of Kansas is a Super Two as access control is from three crossroads with diamond interchanges and having other local roads be grade separated but no ramps. It's made later to be widened to a proper freeway.
US 15 in Gettysburg, PA was a super two, but was widened later to irs current freeway form. Yet pre four lanes its access was the same as today, thus giving the two lane road the same attributes as the freeway today.
Then Humboldt County, CA has super four, a freeway with a narrow paved median, for US 101. Basically it is a freeway without a grass median and narrow paved median instead, but has grade separations from other roads and ramps at access points like any other freeway has, however like all freeways, with no business or residential activity at all.
Good examples would be US 7 from Bennington VT to Manchester VT and I-93 through Fraconia Notch State Park.
Here's a new version from Illinois district 4 engineers.
They rebuilt US 67 North of Monmouth .
It's 2 12 foot lanes and 2 11foot shoulders About half paved .
Why 🚜 not just to keep them out of traffic but to prevent damage by running half the weight off the paved shoulders
It appears that one of the most destructive forces on roads .
That design could easily add a passing lane if needed too.
One engineer said he would like to see all their roads look like it.
You might want to check out street view . It's showing some finished road some under construction
It also includes turn lanes at state roads and or busy intersections .
Quote from: 3467 on November 10, 2023, 06:26:48 PM
Here's a new version from Illinois district 4 engineers.
They rebuilt US 67 North of Monmouth .
It's 2 12 foot lanes and 2 11foot shoulders About half paved .
Why 🚜 not just to keep them out of traffic but to prevent damage by running half the weight off the paved shoulders
It appears that one of the most destructive forces on roads .
That design could easily add a passing lane if needed too.
One engineer said he would like to see all their roads look like it.
That's basically bringing it up to more modern standards; I would hesitate to term it as a "Super" highway. It's still on 66' ROW. The shoulders are basically up hard against the ditch. They haven't leveled out the few grades it has, nor widened the bridges.
I have a couple examples that hew closer to the "Super 2" idea. Both are on a minimum of 100' ROW. 12' travel lanes with 10' shoulders, long sightlines and gradual curves. You could plunk down a twin parallel roadway and instantly turn it into an Interstate-standard freeway.
Hwy 11 outside Janesville, WI: https://maps.app.goo.gl/yg9LKfTJZ72aAvQb7
US-41 between Baraga and Chassel, MI: https://maps.app.goo.gl/5bzKmFLVrjqFn1nT7
If it has at-grade intersections, it's not a Super-2.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2023, 08:54:46 PMIf it has at-grade intersections, it's not a Super-2.
That's the roadgeek definition!
A Super-2 is a two lane highway that went into a phone booth, changed its clothes, and took off its glasses, and now nobody recognizes it anymore.
Quote from: algorerhythms on November 10, 2023, 09:40:24 PM
A Super-2 is a two lane highway that went into a phone booth, changed its clothes, and took off its glasses, and now nobody recognizes it anymore.
...unless you are a road named Lois Lane.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 10, 2023, 09:19:42 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2023, 08:54:46 PMIf it has at-grade intersections, it's not a Super-2.
That's the roadgeek definition!
Yeah, I don't see how NY 104 between Sodus and Red Creek isn't a super-2. It has at grades, but no driveways, plus wide shoulders, good sightlines, and ROW for a second carriageway that was never built.
Quote from: webny99 on November 11, 2023, 05:18:18 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 10, 2023, 09:19:42 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2023, 08:54:46 PMIf it has at-grade intersections, it's not a Super-2.
That's the roadgeek definition!
Yeah, I don't see how NY 104 between Sodus and Red Creek isn't a super-2. It has at grades, but no driveways, plus wide shoulders, good sightlines, and ROW for a second carriageway that was never built.
That would be a super-two. It does not have to be a freeway.
Can a Super 2 have stoplights?
When I hear super 2 I think of a 2 lane fully controlled access highway like US 6 in Cape Cod. Apparently, some disagree with me.
Yeah, this idea of a super-2 being just an unlimited access two-lane road with wide shoulders seems silly to me.
OK, I opened a can of worms and still there is no consensus opinion.
Illinois it was defined as 2 lane with a passing lane every 5 miles. Pulse curve corrections and the like. Now it seems to be we may do the passing lanes on long stretches over 5000 vpd. There are not many of those.
Iowa seems to be over 3 or 4000 a day. You can see that on US 34 west of Ottumwa.
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
Yeah, this idea of a super-2 being just an unlimited access two-lane road with wide shoulders seems silly to me.
Who said anything about unlimited access? Just not fully controlled access.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on November 12, 2023, 03:35:01 PM
When I hear super 2 I think of a 2 lane fully controlled access highway like US 6 in Cape Cod. Apparently, some disagree with me.
US 6 on Cape Cod is a divided highway. Super-2's certainly don't have to be divided; see US 7 in southern Vermont, which has full access control despite being undivided, and we can all agree is a super-2.
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 10:15:15 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
Yeah, this idea of a super-2 being just an unlimited access two-lane road with wide shoulders seems silly to me.
Who said anything about unlimited access? Just not fully controlled access.
NY 104 is a good example of this, as there is access at intersections but no direct driveway access.
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 10:15:15 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
Yeah, this idea of a super-2 being just an unlimited access two-lane road with wide shoulders seems silly to me.
Who said anything about unlimited access? Just not fully controlled access.
What a lousy definition.
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 10:15:15 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
Yeah, this idea of a super-2 being just an unlimited access two-lane road with wide shoulders seems silly to me.
Who said anything about unlimited access? Just not fully controlled access.
What a lousy definition.
See the word "actually" in the thread title? Lousy definitions are still definitions, so long as they're actual.
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 02:04:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 10:15:15 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
Yeah, this idea of a super-2 being just an unlimited access two-lane road with wide shoulders seems silly to me.
Who said anything about unlimited access? Just not fully controlled access.
What a lousy definition.
See the word "actually" in the thread title? Lousy definitions are still definitions, so long as they're actual.
*citation needed*
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 03:42:53 PM
Yeah, this idea of a super-2 being just an unlimited access two-lane road with wide shoulders seems silly to me.
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 10:15:15 AM
Who said anything about unlimited access? Just not fully controlled access.
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 02:01:02 PM
What a lousy definition.
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 02:04:18 PM
See the word "actually" in the thread title? Lousy definitions are still definitions, so long as they're actual.
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 02:09:59 PM
*citation needed*
I mean, I already linked to the previous discussion, which had citations, but OK . . .
Quote from: Kansas Department of Transportation — Transportation Infrastructure Investment and the Kansas Economy
A super two highway is a two‐lane road built to high standards, typically including partial control of access, occasional passing lanes and hard shoulders. It is often built for eventual conversion to freeway or at least divided highway status once traffic volumes rise.
And, while we're at it, the
official definition by TxDOT doesn't mention access control at all.
And yet, I don't believe NYSDOT defines the term at all.
So, there's no standardization. :D
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 03:55:15 PMAnd yet, I don't believe NYSDOT defines the term at all.
So, there's no standardization. :D
Yet NYSDOT maintains facilities that meet both of the competing definitions. This could be similar to "guide rail" or "maintenance and protection of traffic."
Also you have roads that were built as Super Twos but later converted to normal two lane at grade facilities.
US 1 in Bel Air, MD is been changed. Built as a future freeway, it was given an at grade with MD 24 and later US 1 Business at its former north end which had stubs for continuing around Hickory , MD now an at grade bypass.
Plus FL 407 in Titusville, Florida has been given at grades at I-95 and a side road near FL 405 to serve a business/ industrial park as it was built to be the northern spur of the Beeline Expressway toll road to access the KSC.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 13, 2023, 04:08:20 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 03:55:15 PMAnd yet, I don't believe NYSDOT defines the term at all.
So, there's no standardization. :D
Yet NYSDOT maintains facilities that meet both of the competing definitions. This could be similar to "guide rail" or "maintenance and protection of traffic."
*shrug*
Existence of facilities that meet others' definitions does not indicate standardization.
I take a Super-2 to be a two lane highway with interchanges. Examples that immediately come to mind are US 6 here on Cape Cod (Suicide Alley) and the Old Monroe bypass on MO-79.
Of a historical note (and I do have a good memory), up to one-half of I-20 between Vicksburg and Jackson, MS was initially constructed as a Super-2 and signed as US 80. One side was constructed to accommodate 2-way traffic, but there were interchanges and grade separations. I presume it was staged construction of the ultimate I-20 interstate alignment, as the full four-lane facility was completed by the end of the 1960's and US 80 was re-routed back to its original alignment.
Also I-70 in Utah was built as Super Two across the Swells and was even numbered as US 50, but once it got widened it remained as US 50 and still to this moment.
Has anyone mentioned the West Virginia Turnpike? It was a super two with a closed ticketing toll system when it opened originally.
I hear I-91 in northern Vermont was built as a super 2 back in the day. As was I-95 in northern Maine, specifically north of Bangor.
Also US 1 in NC from Sanford to Cary was a super two, but got widened to four lanes in 2000. Now it's a full freeway from Sanford to north of Raleigh.
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 07:53:27 PM
Existence of facilities that meet others' definitions does not indicate standardization.
Right. The official definition of "super two" varies from state to state, and most states don't appear to have defined the term at all.
But on the other hand, I don't think anyone has yet provided any evidence that a single state's official (or even unofficial) definition of "super two" matches what most roadgeeks seem to think it means. That is to say, I don't recall having seen—either in the previous thread or in this one—even a single DOT document that defines "super two" as a two-lane freeway. Which is to say, if any standardization can be deduced at all, it is that your definition is wrong.
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2023, 11:14:01 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 07:53:27 PM
Existence of facilities that meet others' definitions does not indicate standardization.
Right. The official definition of "super two" varies from state to state, and most states don't appear to have defined the term at all.
But on the other hand, I don't think anyone has yet provided any evidence that a single state's official (or even unofficial) definition of "super two" matches what most roadgeeks seem to think it means. That is to say, I don't recall having seen—either in the previous thread or in this one—even a single DOT document that defines "super two" as a two-lane freeway. Which is to say, if any standardization can be deduced at all, it is that your definition is wrong.
The roadgeek definition might have arisen independently. I tend to think of super-2 as a roadgeek term, since I first encountered it on the MTR FAQ. I'm not sure if I was ever aware that some DOTs use it in an official capacity until one of the previous rounds of this debate.
Quote from: vdeane on November 14, 2023, 12:51:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2023, 11:14:01 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 07:53:27 PM
Existence of facilities that meet others' definitions does not indicate standardization.
Right. The official definition of "super two" varies from state to state, and most states don't appear to have defined the term at all.
But on the other hand, I don't think anyone has yet provided any evidence that a single state's official (or even unofficial) definition of "super two" matches what most roadgeeks seem to think it means. That is to say, I don't recall having seen—either in the previous thread or in this one—even a single DOT document that defines "super two" as a two-lane freeway. Which is to say, if any standardization can be deduced at all, it is that your definition is wrong.
The roadgeek definition might have arisen independently. I tend to think of super-2 as a roadgeek term, since I first encountered it on the MTR FAQ. I'm not sure if I was ever aware that some DOTs use it in an official capacity until one of the previous rounds of this debate.
Indiana used the term "Super two" back in the late 70s and early 80s, and I believe that they still use it today. It was considered to be a two lane road that was most likely a replacement road that had gentle curves rather than sharp, wide paved shoulders and limited access, although there were at grade intersections although selectively spaced. Southern Indiana examples are US 231 north of Huntingburg to the south of Jasper, IN, IN-37 from I-64 to IN-237 north of Tell City, IN 37 from I-64 to Eckerty, and IN 145 from IN-164 to just south of French Lick. You could also include IN 162 on the south side of Jasper, IN. One other super two comes to mind, US-50's bypass of North Vernon, IN. OK, I'm done for now.
Quote from: vdeane on November 14, 2023, 12:51:08 PMThe roadgeek definition might have arisen independently. I tend to think of super-2 as a roadgeek term, since I first encountered it on the MTR FAQ. I'm not sure if I was ever aware that some DOTs use it in an official capacity until one of the previous rounds of this debate.
I was definitely aware of
Super Two long before I discovered the road enthusiast community through MTR. I originally learned it from my father, who used it in reference to facilities like the two-lane segments of US 54 that do not have full control of access. I suspect he learned it from newspaper articles, the authors of which first heard it from KDOT's media-relations personnel.
I did do some digging in NYSDOT's Highway Design Manual last night (necessarily shallow, since it is a large Web publication about two or three links deep and I had other things going on), and did not find a single instance of
Super Two or
Super 2 in the chapters in which it would logically occur. As I pointed out above, that doesn't necessarily mean such facilities don't exist in New York--far from it--but it does suggest the design processes that result in them don't employ those terms, which also don't propagate into the public consciousness through engineers talking with PR people, PR people talking to reporters, and reporters writing articles that are published in local newspapers.
I also checked the 2011 edition of the AASHTO Green Book and didn't find a single instance of
Super Two. But, as Kphoger points out, this does not mean the term doesn't have a degree of standardization among the state DOTs that use it.
The part that everyone seems to get stuck on is the degree of control of access. It is not wrong to describe a two-lane freeway as a Super Two, but it is wrong to assert that a two-lane highway with some degree of at-grade access
can't be a Super Two.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 14, 2023, 01:44:55 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 14, 2023, 12:51:08 PMThe roadgeek definition might have arisen independently. I tend to think of super-2 as a roadgeek term, since I first encountered it on the MTR FAQ. I'm not sure if I was ever aware that some DOTs use it in an official capacity until one of the previous rounds of this debate.
I was definitely aware of Super Two long before I discovered the road enthusiast community through MTR. I originally learned it from my father, who used it in reference to facilities like the two-lane segments of US 54 that do not have full control of access. I suspect he learned it from newspaper articles, the authors of which first heard it from KDOT's media-relations personnel.
I did do some digging in NYSDOT's Highway Design Manual last night (necessarily shallow, since it is a large Web publication about two or three links deep and I had other things going on), and did not find a single instance of Super Two or Super 2 in the chapters in which it would logically occur. As I pointed out above, that doesn't necessarily mean such facilities don't exist in New York--far from it--but it does suggest the design processes that result in them don't employ those terms, which also don't propagate into the public consciousness through engineers talking with PR people, PR people talking to reporters, and reporters writing articles that are published in local newspapers.
I also checked the 2011 edition of the AASHTO Green Book and didn't find a single instance of Super Two. But, as Kphoger points out, this does not mean the term doesn't have a degree of standardization among the state DOTs that use it.
The part that everyone seems to get stuck on is the degree of control of access. It is not wrong to describe a two-lane freeway as a Super Two, but it is wrong to assert that a two-lane highway with some degree of at-grade access can't be a Super Two.
Told ya so.
While we're going in circles, does New York even have any two-lane freeways that would meet both the traditional and the roadgeek definition of a super-two? I know we have some with partial access control, but I can't think of any offhand that have full access control. (NY 104 has a single half-diamond at NY 89, but as a standalone interchange, I don't think it would count as a freeway if it was four lanes divided, so it probably doesn't count here either.)
I don't think I've ever heard the term "super-2" used officially in Kentucky.
Quote from: webny99 on November 14, 2023, 03:10:59 PM
While we're going in circles, does New York even have any two-lane freeways that would meet both the traditional and the roadgeek definition of a super-two? I know we have some with partial access control, but I can't think of any offhand that have full access control. (NY 104 has a single half-diamond at NY 89, but as a standalone interchange, I don't think it would count as a freeway if it was four lanes divided, so it probably doesn't count here either.)
NY 5S near Ilion and the Bethpage State Parkway.
Quote from: vdeane on November 14, 2023, 08:28:10 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 14, 2023, 03:10:59 PM
While we're going in circles, does New York even have any two-lane freeways that would meet both the traditional and the roadgeek definition of a super-two? I know we have some with partial access control, but I can't think of any offhand that have full access control. (NY 104 has a single half-diamond at NY 89, but as a standalone interchange, I don't think it would count as a freeway if it was four lanes divided, so it probably doesn't count here either.)
NY 5S near Ilion and the Bethpage State Parkway.
Also the Niagara Scenic Parkway from Whirlpool State Park to Lewiston, if you ignore any semblance of standards for the roadway.
But not exactly a robust list either way.
Quote from: webny99 on November 14, 2023, 03:10:59 PM
While we're going in circles, does New York even have any two-lane freeways that would meet both the traditional and the roadgeek definition of a super-two? I know we have some with partial access control, but I can't think of any offhand that have full access control. (NY 104 has a single half-diamond at NY 89, but as a standalone interchange, I don't think it would count as a freeway if it was four lanes divided, so it probably doesn't count here either.)
The I-87 to NY 9N connector in Lake George.
The Exit 12 roadway off I-81 to NY 281 in Homer.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 25, 2016, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 25, 2016, 01:54:49 PM
I have never heard of the term "Super-2" being used in official documentation, or that it's a specific engineering term.
KyTC uses it. Google turns up a hit in the 2008 standard specifications.
http://transportation.ky.gov/Highway-Design/Standard%20Drawing%20%20Sepia%20PDFs/SEPIA-SERIES-2008.pdf
That is as engineering-related as it gets.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 14, 2023, 06:25:42 PM
I don't think I've ever heard the term "super-2" used officially in Kentucky.
You should pay better attention to Jonathan, then. He usually knows what he's talking about. (To be fair, though, I wish he'd mentioned which page it's on.)
There could be a bit of a generational thing going on with this, as I never thought of this term as being controversial in any way - like, don't we all know what a Super 2 is? Clearly, I was wrong about that. For me, this was something defined for me back in the late 60's and 70's - basically an interstate freeway in a sparsely trafficked area, that has only 2 lanes (one each direction) but which includes exits and high speeds, just like it's bigger brother. In other words, a limited access freeway with 2 lanes. This was pretty common as the interstate system was being built; most of these were eventually twinned and expanded, though a couple of small segments remain here and there.
Honestly, I thought this was a pretty simple definition. Guess not.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 14, 2023, 01:44:55 PM
I was definitely aware of Super Two long before I discovered the road enthusiast community through MTR. I originally learned it from my father, who used it in reference to facilities like the two-lane segments of US 54 that do not have full control of access.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on November 15, 2023, 10:55:57 AM
There could be a bit of a generational thing going on with this, as I never thought of this term as being controversial in any way - like, don't we all know what a Super 2 is? Clearly, I was wrong about that. For me, this was something defined for me back in the late 60's and 70's - basically an interstate freeway in a sparsely trafficked area, that has only 2 lanes (one each direction) but which includes exits and high speeds, just like it's bigger brother.
Only if you're older than Jonathan's father.
Quote from: webny99 on November 14, 2023, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 14, 2023, 08:28:10 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 14, 2023, 03:10:59 PM
While we're going in circles, does New York even have any two-lane freeways that would meet both the traditional and the roadgeek definition of a super-two? I know we have some with partial access control, but I can't think of any offhand that have full access control. (NY 104 has a single half-diamond at NY 89, but as a standalone interchange, I don't think it would count as a freeway if it was four lanes divided, so it probably doesn't count here either.)
NY 5S near Ilion and the Bethpage State Parkway.
Also the Niagara Scenic Parkway from Whirlpool State Park to Lewiston, if you ignore any semblance of standards for the roadway.
But not exactly a robust list either way.
You were asking about freeways, though I guess that would have counted before this all-way stop (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1327449,-79.0473958,3a,75y,61.91h,87.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVIeOBkN2m-bLj12MeicDiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) was added. The lack of shoulders makes me think that it might meet the roadgeek definition (at least north of here) but
not the DOT ones.
Honestly, that whole area feels like a pepetual work zone, not because of any work being done, but because it's still using things like temporary construction barrier (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.155591,-79.0423373,3a,90y,154.84h,78.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH3IwAJHUJwSLTaNQDy6QUQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and inelegant shifts (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1483192,-79.0399591,3a,77.3y,176.27h,79.96t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sMfpQ-J-V_iC7CI8f3eCAEQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DMfpQ-J-V_iC7CI8f3eCAEQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D103.66194%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) instead of building something permanent.
Quote from: kphoger on November 15, 2023, 11:03:06 AM
Only if you're older than Jonathan's father.
Yeah......no. That definition comes from before my time. Maybe that was a Super 2 back when Our Miss Brooks was on TV, but the Super 2 that I know and love is the 2-lane interstate that traversed the quieter parts of the US. Or their state highway equivalent.
Here's a real Super 2 (US 84, Argyle, GA Bypass). :D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53345722566_47c0e8df4c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pgYLMm)