Driving this morning in the construction zone near downtown, heading south on I-515, I noticed just north of Charleston that the sign assembly had "I-11 / US 93 / US 95." To my knowledge, I did not know I-515 was intended to be designated as I-11 (although I always thought it was a foregone conclusions, just the studies had to be done first). Later on, even in the same construction zone, the freeway was only referenced as I-515.
Is I-515 becoming I-11?
I think they officially set it as such - check the threads in here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7881.0
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on January 01, 2023, 11:04:11 AM
Bumping this, because the part in bold...
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 21, 2022, 03:26:18 PM
It's time to open the bets. What is happening at this meet? A new US Route for the first time in 17 years? I-515 dropped in favor of I-11? I-590 designated to serve my planned pie-in-the-sky development near Belvidere, Illinois? Or what else?
... actually happened at this meeting. This turned out like Plutonium getting Pu as its symbol, I said that as a joke and kaboom, it gets through.
From the October 2022 AASHTO thread
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32315.msg2779592#msg2779592
Interesting, thank you. I even did a search for this but had no idea it happened so long ago. Even Google still lists it as I-515.
Quote from: 404inthe404 on November 11, 2023, 05:07:49 PM
Interesting, thank you. I even did a search for this but had no idea it happened so long ago. Even Google still lists it as I-515.
Just because it was determined and got AASHTO approval doesn't mean the signs were updated. Some of those take a really long time between approval and actually getting signed in the field. I think that I-11 sign you mentioned might be the only one so far.
Hopefully there will be a lot more Interstate 11 signs in the future. It's time for the Interstate 515 designation to R.I.P.
This is going to be another case where a route changes on a road and Travel Mapping is going to say I've clinched something I haven't...
Quote from: vdeane on November 11, 2023, 05:15:02 PM
Quote from: 404inthe404 on November 11, 2023, 05:07:49 PM
Interesting, thank you. I even did a search for this but had no idea it happened so long ago. Even Google still lists it as I-515.
Just because it was determined and got AASHTO approval doesn't mean the signs were updated. Some of those take a really long time between approval and actually getting signed in the field. I think that I-11 sign you mentioned might be the only one so far.
Perfect example is I-265 for the "gap" segment of the Louisville 3/4 beltway that was finished with the East End Bridge over the Ohio. AASHTO approved the I-265 designation for both the Indiana and Kentucky segments at the Spring 2019 meeting, and it is still unsigned to this day (apparently FHWA has some additional requirements to be met before giving its ok for the unified route number, mostly to do with mile markers/exit numbers starting at "0" at the KY 65/265 interchange and IN continuing KY's mile markers. At present, both segments count "up" to the state line on the new bridge, and the KY "0" point is the KY 841/US 31W/US 60 interchange)
Well, sure. FHWA holds authority over what is considered part of the IHS and is eligible for 90% NHPP funding, not AASHTO.
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2023, 10:29:54 PM
This is going to be another case where a route changes on a road and Travel Mapping is going to say I've clinched something I haven't...
Can't be helped, especially if you have inside of your list file the underlying US highways that are along it, due to the multiplex detection.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on November 11, 2023, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2023, 10:29:54 PM
This is going to be another case where a route changes on a road and Travel Mapping is going to say I've clinched something I haven't...
Can't be helped, especially if you have inside of your list file the underlying US highways that are along it, due to the multiplex detection.
I don't. I just have I-515 in there. But, there's a 50/50 chance that they'll just flip the code and automatically count I-11 as clinched...
As of right now, there have been zero substantial changes to 515, either internal or signage. I drove it today and that shield is a one-off. Similarly, nothing backend shows 515 being removed.
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on November 11, 2023, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2023, 10:29:54 PM
This is going to be another case where a route changes on a road and Travel Mapping is going to say I've clinched something I haven't...
Can't be helped, especially if you have inside of your list file the underlying US highways that are along it, due to the multiplex detection.
I don't. I just have I-515 in there. But, there's a 50/50 chance that they'll just flip the code and automatically count I-11 as clinched...
I count any road I've been on as clinched, even if the number changes. New alignment is where I need to revisit.
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on November 11, 2023, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2023, 10:29:54 PM
This is going to be another case where a route changes on a road and Travel Mapping is going to say I've clinched something I haven't...
Can't be helped, especially if you have inside of your list file the underlying US highways that are along it, due to the multiplex detection.
I don't. I just have I-515 in there. But, there's a 50/50 chance that they'll just flip the code and automatically count I-11 as clinched...
FWIW, I don't have I-515 in my list file, just the concurrent routes US 93 and US 95. I'm autocredited for I-515 anyway via TM's automatic multiplex detection, and will be autocredited for I-11 whenever ci94 extends that route in TM, without my having to lift a finger.
That comes in handy for all the Texas Interstate additions which follow existing US routes I've already clinched.
In your situation, TM will autocredit you for the part of I-11 you traveled when it was I-515, by treating I-515 as an alternate route name for I-11.
Quote from: Alps on November 12, 2023, 10:26:56 PMI count any road I've been on as clinched, even if the number changes. New alignment is where I need to revisit.
My practice, too, unless I traveled an Interstate segment before it was upgraded to freeway (as happened with parts of US 71 gradually upgraded to I-49), in which case I had to play with my list file to turn off TM's autocrediting for those segments.
Can't have been on a route that wasn't there... :D
Alright, some I-11 updates from today's travels:
I-11 is now signed along I-15 SB in place of I-515. All approach assemblies are for I-11, but the gore sign and the signs on the ramps lack any I-shields. Given the lack of signs elsewhere and the fact that I-11 signs along 515/95 are still covered, I'm going to assume it's not official yet and these signs jump the gun.
I-11 shields are also covered along CC 215 at the Centennial Bowl. CC 215 is full freeway now, with the temporary expressway segment around the Centennial Bowl gone. VMSes along 515 and 95 refer to CC 215 as "I-215", so they're also jumping the gun with 215. My
assumption is that I-11 will get extended north to NV 157 (last exit before an at-grade) when the Centennial Bowl work is complete, which is when we're also likely to see the transfer of CC 215 to NDOT.
I will note that I am actively monitoring NDOT's internal systems to see when the change becomes official. As long as everything on the NDOT end is 515, we can probably assume the change is not yet official unless there is a press release.
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 11:37:54 PM
Can't have been on a route that wasn't there... :D
Well, are we clinching
routes or
roads? CC 215 and I-515 as they exist today will be I-215 and I-11, respectively. For this reason, I'm counting CC 215 and I-515 clinches for I-215 and I-11. Just like how I'm counting an I-73 clinch for a segment that was "future" when I was on it in 2008 as there were no substantial changes since I was on it. A freeway I was on getting a new designation doesn't mean I need to redrive it to reclaim it. But I acknowledge that people view this differently and those differences are what make the hobby interesting.
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 11:37:54 PM
Can't have been on a route that wasn't there... :D
You can't be on a route as it's just a bureaucratic fiction; it is a pointer to a physical road. You're on the road, not the route. And the road is the same.
To truly establish whether traveling I-515 is the same as traveling I-11, we would need the ruling of a universally-accepted arbiter of truth and logic known throughout the world. Fortunately, I happen to have one handy; it's called gcc and it comes with Linux.
#include <stdio.h>
int main()
{
int freeway = 93 + 95; /* This is the physical road */
int *i11; /* I-11 designation */
int *i515; /* I-515 designation */
i515 = &freeway; /* assign I-515 to freeway on July 12, 1976 */
i11 = &freeway; /* assign I-11 to freeway in 2022 */
if(*i515 == *i11) /* See if I-515 and I-11 are the same */
{
printf("Traveling I-515 is the same as traveling I-11\n");
}
else
{
printf("Traveling I-515 is different than traveling I-11\n");
}
return 0;
}
Output:
Traveling I-515 is the same as traveling I-11
Quod erat demonstrandum.
The complicated and perverted wrestling of logic roadgeeks will go through to not lose a clinch...
I clinch routes.
Makes it a lot easier for discussions when one is asked if they have been on a certain Interstate.
"Have you been on Interstate 11?"
"Yes, but when it was I-515."
"Wut."
:D
If you think a single if/else pair is "complicated and perverted", that sounds like a skill issue to me. :D
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2023, 01:34:24 AM
int freeway = 93 + 95; /* This is the physical road */
US 188 is a thing?
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 07:02:47 AM
The complicated and perverted wrestling of logic roadgeeks will go through to not lose a clinch...
I clinch routes.
Makes it a lot easier for discussions when one is asked if they have been on a certain Interstate.
"Have you been on Interstate 11?"
"Yes, but when it was I-515."
"Wut."
:D
Going out to a city for the purposes of re-clinching a segment of freeway you've already completed because one of the three sign route designations changed is something only this hobby can come up with.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 13, 2023, 08:09:34 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 07:02:47 AM
The complicated and perverted wrestling of logic roadgeeks will go through to not lose a clinch...
I clinch routes.
Makes it a lot easier for discussions when one is asked if they have been on a certain Interstate.
"Have you been on Interstate 11?"
"Yes, but when it was I-515."
"Wut."
:D
Going out to a city for the purposes of re-clinching a segment of freeway you've already completed because one of the three sign route designations changed is something only this hobby can come up with.
Well, that would be the definition of the hobby itself... :D
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2023, 07:04:11 AM
If you think a single if/else pair is "complicated and perverted", that sounds like a skill issue to me. :D
Code means little when the premise upon which it is based is flawed.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2023, 01:22:37 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 11:37:54 PM
Can't have been on a route that wasn't there... :D
You can't be on a route as it's just a bureaucratic fiction; it is a pointer to a physical road. You're on the road, not the route. And the road is the same.
Or... A road is a type of route. A route is the way you get from A to B. But are we clinching numerical designations?
I also took a few months for WisDOT to place the 'I-41' signs in the wild after it became 'official'.
Mike
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 10:34:44 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2023, 01:22:37 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 11:37:54 PM
Can't have been on a route that wasn't there... :D
You can't be on a route as it's just a bureaucratic fiction; it is a pointer to a physical road. You're on the road, not the route. And the road is the same.
Or... A road is a type of route. A route is the way you get from A to B. But are we clinching numerical designations?
Yes.
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 01:57:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 10:34:44 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2023, 01:22:37 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 11:37:54 PM
Can't have been on a route that wasn't there... :D
You can't be on a route as it's just a bureaucratic fiction; it is a pointer to a physical road. You're on the road, not the route. And the road is the same.
Or... A road is a type of route. A route is the way you get from A to B. But are we clinching numerical designations?
Yes.
Is there any state whose routes are not legislatively defined? I have a vague memory that someone mentioned one in a different thread, but not which state it may have been.
I made the argument in an offline chat that the "sign route" designation is only real as the observer gives it merit. The example used was recently relinquished NV 121 (deleted 2021). To me it has just as much merit as an actively signed route does if not more now. At least now I can ask myself the question "why was NV 121 there to begin with?" I tend to find those answers to way more interesting to look into than actively signed modern routes.
But then again, this hobby is what one makes of it. If one wants to hang on TM and only clinch actively signed/state maintained highways good on them. It still doesn't make a lot of sense "to me" to go revisit a road for the sole purpose of driving it again because the sign route number changed.
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 01:57:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 10:34:44 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2023, 01:22:37 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 11:37:54 PM
Can't have been on a route that wasn't there... :D
You can't be on a route as it's just a bureaucratic fiction; it is a pointer to a physical road. You're on the road, not the route. And the road is the same.
Or... A road is a type of route. A route is the way you get from A to B. But are we clinching numerical designations?
Yes.
Is there any state whose routes are not legislatively defined? I have a vague memory that someone mentioned one in a different thread, but not which state it may have been.
They're not legislatively defined in Oklahoma—route numbering is done under authority of the Transportation Commission, which is part of the executive branch. I believe Texas has a similar structure.
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 01:57:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 10:34:44 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 13, 2023, 01:22:37 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2023, 11:37:54 PM
Can't have been on a route that wasn't there... :D
You can't be on a route as it's just a bureaucratic fiction; it is a pointer to a physical road. You're on the road, not the route. And the road is the same.
Or... A road is a type of route. A route is the way you get from A to B. But are we clinching numerical designations?
Yes.
Is there any state whose routes are not legislatively defined? I have a vague memory that someone mentioned one in a different thread, but not which state it may have been.
NJ has written legislative routes, many of which were last updated in the 1930's, 1940's and 1950's. Many if not most don't match their actual current routing.
https://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=Publish:10.1048/Enu
Using one example, NJ Route 55's northern terminus is with NJ Route 42 in Deptford, NJ. However, per its definition, the northern terminus was supposed to be US 130 in Westville, which would be close to or exactly where NJ 45 meets US 130. I've never seen a map showing such a proposed routing.
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 02:03:15 PM
Is there any state whose routes are not legislatively defined? I have a vague memory that someone mentioned one in a different thread, but not which state it may have been.
Massachusetts
EDIT: This is probably the answer to the question below.
OK, poor word choice. I thought I remembered someone mentioning a state where, basically, signage alone is your guide to what's a state route and what's not.
Quote from: kphoger on November 13, 2023, 02:34:58 PM
OK, poor word choice. I thought I remembered someone mentioning a state where, basically, signage alone is your guide to what's a state route and what's not.
Rhode Island?
This is going off topic
All I can say is it will be a matter of time before I-515 becomes history and I-11 takes over...if it hasn't happened already.
Quote from: Henry on November 14, 2023, 11:14:36 PM
All I can say is it will be a matter of time before I-515 becomes history and I-11 takes over...if it hasn't happened already.
Calm yo' horses, because it hasn't happened yet. But it will soon.
Cross-posting from the main I-11 thread...
NDOT is holding a public meeting on 11/30 to discuss a feasibility study for upgrades to US 95 between Kyle Canyon and Mercury (News Release (https://www.dot.nv.gov/Home/Components/News/News/8004/395)). But check this little nugget in the last paragraph (emphasis added):
QuoteIn 2022, highway authorities pinpointed the preferred route for Interstate 11 through the Las Vegas Valley. This route will utilize I-515 and U.S. 95, traversing Clark County between Henderson and Kyle Canyon. The official process of renaming and resigning those freeways is slated to begin in early 2024.
It would not be difficult to upgrade US 95 into Interstate 11 between NV 157 and Mercury Hwy. I assume the Indian Springs Bypass will be a short one, since the town's population is just under 1,000.
I wonder if they'd just take the land adjacent to US-95, and turn it into a freeway with frontage roads. As opposed to putting a big loop south of the town.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 16, 2023, 05:26:30 PM
It would not be difficult to upgrade US 95 into Interstate 11 between NV 157 and Mercury Hwy. I assume the Indian Springs Bypass will be a short one, since the town's population is just under 1,000.
Quote from: pderocco on November 16, 2023, 08:00:45 PM
I wonder if they'd just take the land adjacent to US-95, and turn it into a freeway with frontage roads. As opposed to putting a big loop south of the town.
There's already two-way frontage roads on both sides of the highway in Indian Springs. Since Creech AFB has gobbled up any private land on the north side, the northern frontage road no longer has any useful purpose—the only thing accessing it is the former main gate into Creech, which is now unused. So there is a bit of room to work with potentially upgrading US 95 in place, although it might need to be depressed to do it.