https://maps.app.goo.gl/fcme8erfZ1oPnB9U9
This grade crossing on a freeway in New Jersey has an exempt sign, but as you can see it's very active.
It's exempting must-stop vehicles from having to stop.
Here's the relevant law for New Jersey:
Quote from: New Jersey Statutes Title 39. Motor Vehicles and Traffic Regulation 39 § 4-128 (a)
The commissioner shall designate a grade crossing an exempt crossing when the potential for damage and injury from accidents between motor vehicles required to stop at grade crossings and other motor vehicles traveling in the same direction exceeds that between a train and the vehicles required to stop by law. Crossings designated as exempt crossings may include, but shall not be limited to, industrial, spurline and secondary crossings.
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 07:48:26 PM
It's exempting must-stop vehicles from having to stop.
So a school bus doesn't have to stop, open his doors to listen for a potential train, and then proceed slowly.
I'd like to see that.
Heck I'd like to see a small minivan that transports disabled people not have to stop at one as most I've seen require their drivers to treat the van( which by law don't have to stop) as school buses.
Given that the roadway essentially functions as a freeway (albeit with a 35 mph speed limit and substandard shoulders), it makes sense to exempt must-stop vehicles from stopping.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 13, 2023, 07:55:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 07:48:26 PM
It's exempting must-stop vehicles from having to stop.
So a school bus doesn't have to stop, open his doors to listen for a potential train, and then proceed slowly.
I'd like to see that.
Heck I'd like to see a small minivan that transports disabled people not have to stop at one as most I've seen require their drivers to treat the van( which by law don't have to stop) as school buses.
Don't ask questions you're not going to like the answer to.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 13, 2023, 07:44:49 PM
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fcme8erfZ1oPnB9U9
This grade crossing on a freeway in New Jersey has an exempt sign, but as you can see it's very active.
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 07:48:26 PM
It's exempting must-stop vehicles from having to stop.
Correct. More importantly, the sign indicates that the railroad has specific rules in place that require the train crew to stop at that particular crossing, such that a crew member gets off the train and flags across the crossing (in accordance with General Code of Rules 6.32.2 subpart XG, or equivalent). Note that this particular rule actually applies to grade crossings whereby a malfunction has been reported, but the rule is more often used for lightly used lines where rusty rail conditions are likely (such that we assume that the train detection circuits would be malfunctioning if anyone were dependent upon them).
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 07:48:26 PM
It's exempting must-stop vehicles from having to stop.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 13, 2023, 07:55:23 PM
So a school bus doesn't have to stop, open his doors to listen for a potential train, and then proceed slowly.
Also, trucks carrying chlorine, flammables and certain hazmat at Exempt crossings are not required to "stop, look and listen" (in this case, roll down windows on both sides of the truck) before proceeding slowly.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 13, 2023, 07:55:23 PM
So a school bus doesn't have to stop, open his doors to listen for a potential train, and then proceed slowly.
I'd like to see that.
Heck I'd like to see a small minivan that transports disabled people not have to stop at one as most I've seen require their drivers to treat the van( which by law don't have to stop) as school buses.
The specific regulation is 49 CFR Part 392.10 Subpart (a)(1), which requires that any bus transporting passengers stop at all railroad crossings. In addition to the Exempt sign, here is another important exception that does not require stopping at "streetcar crossings" or "railroad tracks used exclusively for industrial switching purposes" and the comma is misplaced such that both of these exemptions are only in affect if those specific crossings are "within a business district". The term "business district" here means something different than you are familiar with, essentially defining the setback distance of the crossing from a particular type of streetscape that is a minimum of 300 feet along one or both sides of a highway (looks a Roadgeek wrote this definition).
For the record, I have no idea how a common bus driver or truck driver could safely determine whether an old railroad crossing at grade meets the requirements for "railroad tracks used exclusively for industrial switching purposes... ...within a 'business district' ". It is far better to "stop, look and listen" and let the folks behind you complain.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 13, 2023, 07:55:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2023, 07:48:26 PM
It's exempting must-stop vehicles from having to stop.
So a school bus doesn't have to stop, open his doors to listen for a potential train, and then proceed slowly.
I'd like to see that.
Correct, they don't. I've been on school buses (a long time ago now) that didn't stop for such crossings marked as "Exempt", daily.
I don't believe I have any exempt crossings in Massachusetts. New Hampshire has them, mostly for lines that are either abandoned or so rarely used that crossing guards come off the train at crossings.
That one the OP put seems a tad shocking to be exempt.
'Exempt' means that vehicles that normally have to stop at railroad crossings (ie, buses and trucks with HazMat placards) don't have to at that particular one.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on November 14, 2023, 03:23:12 PM
'Exempt' means that vehicles that normally have to stop at railroad crossings (ie, buses and trucks with HazMat placards) don't have to at that particular one.
Mike
Thank you for repeating what has been already repeated in the thread.
I always remembered this (https://maps.app.goo.gl/k7bdJhgyFjtfsxgZ6) exempt crossing as it is in the little neighborhood where my grandpa lives. I've been up in this area three or four times in my memory.
(Also, if you pan around the other way, you'll see a stop sign only on the left side of the road.)
We don't have any here in Tallahassee that I know of, though there are several crossings where I've never seen a train and would be truly shocked if I came upon them and the lights were flashing. A lot of those types of crossings out west would have the exempt marker in my experience.
Michigan uses non-standard signage in at least 2 places to indicate exempt crossings; there is no Exempt sign, but a signal with a sign warning drivers not to stop on the green light.
US-127 near Ithaca: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZAuvuhm6AB48J3iP6
US-2/41 in Gladstone: https://maps.app.goo.gl/bT59SPtCE3wjrdSt8
Oddly, Wisconsin has a few expressways on which railroad crossings are NOT exempt; they go to the expense of making a special lane for those vehicles to stop that doesn't impede traffic. This example shows one example:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HTLuzc1XA9VvSvZs5
Oddly, Wisconsin has a few expressways on which railroad crossings are NOT exempt; they go to the expense of making a special lane for those vehicles to stop that doesn't impede traffic. This example shows one example:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HTLuzc1XA9VvSvZs5
[/quote]
There used to be a lot more of them in Wisconsin, including two on six lane urban freeways, but just those three (two on US 151 (at Beaver Dam and just south of Waupun) and that one on US 141) are left. That US 141 crossing (near Pound, WI) had a fatal truck-train crash about a year or so ago. "USE RIGHT LANE IF REQUIRED TO STOP AT RAILROAD".
Mike
Quote from: SectorZ on November 14, 2023, 08:53:25 AM
That one the OP put seems a tad shocking to be exempt.
Probably because there's never going to be any high speed trains here. To the right (east) is the Atlantic City Train Station, and the end of the line. So trains are going to be travelling very slowly approaching or departing the station.
I've seen the lights lit but never been stopped by the train. As far as I know, they don't have anyone walking in front of or beside the train with a flag here.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2023, 06:48:41 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on November 14, 2023, 08:53:25 AM
That one the OP put seems a tad shocking to be exempt.
Probably because there's never going to be any high speed trains here. To the right (east) is the Atlantic City Train Station, and the end of the line. So trains are going to be travelling very slowly approaching or departing the station.
I've seen the lights lit but never been stopped by the train. As far as I know, they don't have anyone walking in front of or beside the train with a flag here.
Correct, thats the terminal, so all trains will be doing at best 5mph in or out. There is also no freight.
Better view:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1NdkK7BjGDBuRsW8A
There arent a lot of school buses using the roadway, but a TON of passenger buses.
To an extent, the meaning of the exempt sign will depend on the state. California actually has two versions, with different rules attaching to each.
Quote from: Rothman on November 14, 2023, 04:10:39 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 14, 2023, 03:23:12 PM
'Exempt' means that vehicles that normally have to stop at railroad crossings (ie, buses and trucks with HazMat placards) don't have to at that particular one.
Mike
Thank you for repeating what has been already repeated in the thread.
Your welcome.
:nod:
Mike
BUMP.
Recent occurrences have got me thinking about this again. There was an incident in Jacksonville today where a school bus stopping at a railroad crossing was rear-ended by a semi, causing multiple injuries. While the crossing locations on Florida SR-105 (where the crash occurred) should not be exempted in my unprofessional opinion, even if they were to be I don't think it would have changed the outcome. AFAIK, in Florida, only a police officer can allow a school bus to proceed through a railroad crossing, not a sign (unlike other vehicles otherwise "exempted").
I think...
QuoteFSS 316.159
(2) No stop need be made at any such crossing where a police officer, a traffic control signal, or a sign directs traffic to proceed. However, any school bus carrying any school child shall be required to stop unless directed to proceed by a police officer.
I'm gonna ask my boss about this other one in particular... https://maps.app.goo.gl/VZwn4cfRiBeieQcj8
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on April 03, 2026, 03:41:07 AMBUMP.
Recent occurrences have got me thinking about this again. There was an incident in Jacksonville today where a school bus stopping at a railroad crossing was rear-ended by a semi, causing multiple injuries. While the crossing locations on Florida SR-105 (where the crash occurred) should not be exempted in my unprofessional opinion, even if they were to be I don't think it would have changed the outcome. AFAIK, in Florida, only a police officer can allow a school bus to proceed through a railroad crossing, not a sign (unlike other vehicles otherwise "exempted").
I think...
QuoteFSS 316.159
(2) No stop need be made at any such crossing where a police officer, a traffic control signal, or a sign directs traffic to proceed. However, any school bus carrying any school child shall be required to stop unless directed to proceed by a police officer.
I'm gonna ask my boss about this other one in particular... https://maps.app.goo.gl/VZwn4cfRiBeieQcj8
If the law means no exemptions can be made (which I find ridiculous given the number of barely used or abandoned lines out there), then any agency posting the "exempt" signage has gone awry.
I was recently involved in a locality that was petitioning for a couple of crossings to become exempt. At least in my state, the signs only go up with consent from the railroad and local NYSDOT Regional Traffic and Safety Engineer, after consultation with the Main Office's rail group. So, it's not like anyone or any school district can just slap a sign on a rail crossing to make it exempt without some analysis going into it, especially as rail companies view every ground-level crossing as a liability (also was involved in a recent discussion to actually close down a crossing in a local village just the other day...).
(personal opinion emphasized)
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on April 03, 2026, 03:41:07 AMAFAIK, in Florida, only a police officer can allow a school bus to proceed through a railroad crossing, not a sign (unlike other vehicles otherwise "exempted").
I think...
QuoteFSS 316.159
(2) No stop need be made at any such crossing where a police officer, a traffic control signal, or a sign directs traffic to proceed. However, any school bus carrying any school child shall be required to stop unless directed to proceed by a police officer.
Quote from: Rothman on April 03, 2026, 07:08:31 AMIf the law means no exemptions can be made, then any agency posting the "exempt" signage has gone awry.
Why? School buses aren't the only vehicles out there. Just because school bus stops cannot be exempted by signage only, that doesn't mean other vehicles can't either.
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2026, 09:24:16 AMQuote from: ElishaGOtis on April 03, 2026, 03:41:07 AMAFAIK, in Florida, only a police officer can allow a school bus to proceed through a railroad crossing, not a sign (unlike other vehicles otherwise "exempted").
I think...
QuoteFSS 316.159
(2) No stop need be made at any such crossing where a police officer, a traffic control signal, or a sign directs traffic to proceed. However, any school bus carrying any school child shall be required to stop unless directed to proceed by a police officer.
Quote from: Rothman on April 03, 2026, 07:08:31 AMIf the law means no exemptions can be made, then any agency posting the "exempt" signage has gone awry.
Why? School buses aren't the only vehicles out there. Just because school bus stops cannot be exempted by signage only, that doesn't mean other vehicles can't either.
Heh. Interesting that in Florida, it may be the case that school buses have to stop at exempt crossings but regular buses and HAZMATs and the like do not, if I understand what you're saying?
Exempt should mean exempt...
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on April 03, 2026, 03:41:07 AMQuoteFSS 316.159
(2) No stop need be made at any such crossing where a police officer, a traffic control signal, or a sign directs traffic to proceed. However, any school bus carrying any school child shall be required to stop unless directed to proceed by a police officer.
Quote from: Rothman on April 03, 2026, 09:48:23 AMHeh. Interesting that in Florida, it may be the case that school buses have to stop at exempt crossings but regular buses and HAZMATs and the like do not, if I understand what you're saying?
It's not just what I'm saying: it's what the law says that was already cited.
I seem to remember, from many moons ago, the Texas driver handbook saying that a rail crossing could be marked as either "exempt" or "closed." I'm not certain about the second one, but it's what I remember.
In Texas, a school bus is not required to stop at:
"(1) an abandoned railroad grade crossing that is marked with a sign reading "tracks out of service"; or
(2) an industrial or spur line railroad grade crossing that is marked with a sign reading "exempt.""
The rule for explosives is different.
"Before crossing a railroad grade crossing, an operator of a vehicle that has an explosive substance or flammable liquid as the vehicle's principal cargo and that is moving at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour:
(1) shall reduce the speed of the vehicle to 20 miles per hour or less before coming within 200 feet of the nearest rail of the railroad..."
The driver is required to look and listen and not proceed unless it's safe. This rolling stop is not allowed on a highway within a municipality, where a complete stop is required 15 to 50 feet from the track.
The requirement to slow or stop does not apply to "an abandoned or exempted grade crossing that is clearly marked..."
"Tracks out of service" is the closest thing to "closed" that I found.
I know of an old track that is physically excluded from service, with tracks torn out on both ends, and paved over at some crossings. The crossing on a major road (this crossing is not paved over) has "exempt" signage now, but didn't for a long time after it became impossible for trains to use the crossing. Other crossings, including ones that are paved over, have the railroad crossing warning, but no exemption or closure signage. I think that means certain vehicles have to stop, even though it's impossible for a train to use the rail there. Taking the signs down (or putting up "exempt" signs) seems to be a smaller project than paving over the crossing, but for some reason it was never done.
The freshest example in my memory of an [Exempt] crossing on a busy highway was on otherwise-a-freeway US-60 on the south side of Springfield MO, before they redid the US-60/US-65 interchange.
Before: https://maps.app.goo.gl/PaxfJ1YsBoJ6zMwZA
After: https://maps.app.goo.gl/z9GaSRuWvmVUskCW6
The other direction, mid-project: https://maps.app.goo.gl/PQUUQWgrJJvf4Xjb8
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2026, 09:50:41 AMQuote from: ElishaGOtis on April 03, 2026, 03:41:07 AMQuoteFSS 316.159
(2) No stop need be made at any such crossing where a police officer, a traffic control signal, or a sign directs traffic to proceed. However, any school bus carrying any school child shall be required to stop unless directed to proceed by a police officer.
Quote from: Rothman on April 03, 2026, 09:48:23 AMHeh. Interesting that in Florida, it may be the case that school buses have to stop at exempt crossings but regular buses and HAZMATs and the like do not, if I understand what you're saying?
It's not just what I'm saying: it's what the law says that was already cited.
That clip of it, anyway...
So much easier when state law and standard signage aren't at odds with each other... :D
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2026, 11:58:50 AMThe freshest example in my memory of an [Exempt] crossing on a busy highway was on otherwise-a-freeway US-60 on the south side of Springfield MO, before they redid the US-60/US-65 interchange.
Before: https://maps.app.goo.gl/PaxfJ1YsBoJ6zMwZA
After: https://maps.app.goo.gl/z9GaSRuWvmVUskCW6
The other direction, mid-project: https://maps.app.goo.gl/PQUUQWgrJJvf4Xjb8
And going off the 2026 imagery from the second link, it's another example where the track was later abandoned.
A couple of years ago a bunch of level crossings here in Appleton were marked with 'EXEMPT' signs, even though the line is very much used (also a very likely soon-to-be Amtrak route) and has a decent railroad speed limit. It was done simply to cut down on street traffic congestion.
Mike
Quote from: Revive 755 on April 03, 2026, 08:40:00 PMAnd going off the 2026 imagery from the second link, it's another example where the track was later abandoned.
I wonder how far north it's been abandoned. The
next major crossing to the north (https://maps.app.goo.gl/JJvXcBAeFanPLWtE6) doesn't say [Exempt].
Quote from: mgk920 on April 04, 2026, 09:26:46 AMA couple of years ago a bunch of level crossings here in Appleton were marked with 'EXEMPT' signs, even though the line is very much used (also a very likely soon-to-be Amtrak route) and has a decent railroad speed limit. It was done simply to cut down on street traffic congestion.
Mike
I'm not familiar with WisDOT's relationship with railroads, but it is fairly commonplace for a State Agency to approach the smaller railroads with a variety of requests related to traffic congestion in/around railroad crossings. If the railroad is able to impose a permanent "stop-and-flag order" in its timetable, the crossing can be retrofit with "Exempt" signage.
On crossings equipped with simple flashing light signals (FLS) where the railroad operations are frequent enough that rail conditions aren't so rusty yet, the train crew can determine that the FLS is properly functioning and the brakeman can ride on the front of the hood as still serve as "flagman". On crossings equipped with flashing light signals and gates (FLS&G) with the same rail conditions, the train crew can determine that the gates are down (as well as the FLS are properly functioning); in such cases, many railroads allow the brakeman to stay in the locomotive and allow the FLS&G to serve as the the "flagman".
So therefore (huffing up in pontification mode), many of the major railroads push for all of the crossings on a particular branch line (with modest traffic) be fully equipped with FLS&G so that train crews can be reduced to a two-man crew to allow the conductor to serve as the "flagman" in those rare instances where they need to get out of the cab and "ride front-end", then all of those affected crossings can get the "Exempt" signage. Unless the DOT is either (a) flush with lots of crossing improvement cash; or (b) desperate; the railroad's bubble gets burst and life goes back to normal. Most shortlines can't operate with more than two-man crews. And most mainlines are properly equipped to allow two-man crews. By the way, Federal regulations regarding train crew size are in the process of changing (see 49 CFR Part 218 effective June 18, 2024), but most of the changes are the rare instances of "One Person Operation" which certainly doesn't allow for any "Exempt" signage.
Obviously, crossings with severe rusty rail conditions are subject to loss-of-train-detection at any time (particularly problematic for shorter trains). In such cases, the railroad must implement temporary "stop-and-flag" orders and most railroads required the brakeman to walk ahead of the train into the middle of the crossing and flag it the "ole' fashioned way".
Quote from: kphoger on April 04, 2026, 10:08:22 AMI wonder how far north it's been abandoned. The next major crossing to the north (https://maps.app.goo.gl/JJvXcBAeFanPLWtE6) doesn't say [Exempt].
The Battlefield Road crossing is missing the eastbound cantilever though. Could be a sign that section is planned for removal (going off of the progession for the CN crossing of IL 104 near Divernonhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/q9QNpGTg5JUyouQa9).
Going off of Streetview, the BNSF line is probably gone to at least near the new Galloway/Lone Pine roundabout, https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZPpXyoSPsSWc7Bzk7
Quote from: kphoger on April 04, 2026, 10:08:22 AMI wonder how far north it's been abandoned. The next major crossing to the north (https://maps.app.goo.gl/JJvXcBAeFanPLWtE6) doesn't say [Exempt].
Quote from: Revive 755 on April 06, 2026, 09:28:33 PMThe Battlefield Road crossing is missing the eastbound cantilever though. Could be a sign that section is planned for removal (going off of the progession for the CN crossing of IL 104 near Divernonhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/q9QNpGTg5JUyouQa9 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/q9QNpGTg5JUyouQa9)).
Somebody must think it is abandoned here. Notice that the FLS cantilever for the opposing direction of traffic is missing at the time of GSV (as are most of the signage leading up to the crossing). Looks like something big wiped everything out. If the crossing is still active, it either needs to be continuously guarded by police or temporarily guarded with an R1-1 Stop sign (and eventually with appropriate MUTCD-compliant railroad signage, probably an R15-1 crossbuck with a R1-2 Yield sign). Note that some states require other forms of temp signage.
Did some reading up...
That rail line fed coal to the James River Power Station, which closed down in January–February 2021 but had already transitioned away from coal 5½ years earlier. By that time, running coal to the plant was the only use for the Kissick Branch (other than storing railcars). The tracks are being ripped up for conversion to the Chadwick Flyer Trail up to around Sunshine Street, but the portion of the line north of Bennett St is still used for service to/from the Kraft–Heinz factory there.
I found this regarding the Chadwick Flyer Trail in Springfield, MO:
Quote from: Ozark Greenways — Chadwick Flyer Trail — Conceptual Study Report — March 2024BNSF plans to keep ownership of track and right of way north of Sunshine