The automobile is one of man's greatest inventions. It has turned the once arduous experience of travel into an enjoyable one. And much to the chagrin of urbanists and environmentalists who would rather we go back to walking, biking, or taking public transit, more and more cars are coming onto the road. So what can we expect from our cars from the middle of this century?
The biggest change will come when cars start driving themselves. This will not just allow us to scroll on our phones while we go anywhere, it will resolve a whole host of issues. The ability of cars to "talk" to each other will allow them to avoid accidents and form into train-like platoons that will double the capacity of highways. The annoyance of parking will be eliminated: your car will find a space after dropping you off at your destination. And with the ability to park in stacks and without the need to have space to open and close doors, we'll be able to fit twice as many cars in a parking lot of any given size. But for many trips, on-site parking won't be needed at all; your car will just go home.
The second biggest change will be the replacement of the internal combustion engine with battery electric power. By 2050, we probably will have perfected lithium-air batteries, which, theoretically, offer the same energy density as gasoline. One thing that's seldom discussed about electric motors is that they don't face the same power-efficiency trade off as internal combustion. A motor with 400 horsepower will use almost the same amount of energy at a given speed as one with 40 horsepower. Differences in 0-60 times between econoboxes and hypercars will be negligible.
But the improvements to the motor car will go further than this. I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Sit inside the car of tomorrow and you will notice lots and lots of extra interior space. With the elimination of the engine, transmission, driveshaft, differentials, and axles, there will be more room for people and luggage. Lots of people will still insist on driving their own cars. The steering wheel will no longer be attached to a mechanical steering column. Instead, it will be a simple electronic switch that will send a signal to a computer that tells the wheels to turn. With the ability to dynamically vary the steering ratio with speed, it will be possible to have the wheel only turn 180 degrees from lock to lock without making the car overly twitchy at highway speeds. With that, the wheel can be replaced by a yoke that doesn't block the view of the gauges and can retract into the dashboard when not in use. Lexus already sells cars with such a feature, although theirs doesn't retract into the dashboard. With all this extra room, I think cars will begin serving as extra living space. You could sit in your car when it's parked and use it as an office or a den. Facilitating this will be seats made of lightweight materials that can be easily removed.
Seeing out will be a lot easier. New types of glass, such as the one recently discovered at the University of Pennsylvania dubbed Lionglass, will allow windows to act as a structural material. That means thick pillars won't be needed to meet rollover standards. Glass roofs will likely be the norm, giving 80% of the fun of a convertible without the drawbacks. And you don't need to worry about your car's interior roasting when you leave it parked in the sun, the glass will be dimmable.
Forget about flat tires. Non-pneumatic tires that use deformable spokes rather than compressed air are already being trialled in limited commercial application. That obviously saves you the annoyance of fixing flats and eliminates the danger caused by blowouts, but has other advantages. You no longer need a spare tire, giving you more trunk space. You can make the tire compliant vertically but stiff horizontally, giving you better ride *and* handling at the same time. You can put holes in the tread to allow air and water to pass through, greatly reducing noise and eliminating the risk of hydroplaning. And you won't have to remember to keep your tires inflated.
Car handling will be greatly improved. The shock absorber will become a linear motor/generator. It will capture the energy expended when going over bumps that is currently wasted as heat and, when cornering, will stiffen to eliminate body lean. Steer-by-wire systems will allow all 4 wheels to turn at extreme angles, improving manueverability at low speeds while improving stability at high speeds.
Boxy cars will be aerodynamic. As your car travels through the air, it leaves in its wake an area of low pressure that sucks you backwards, slowing you down. Auto engineers have done their best to style their cars to reduce drag but they have to balance that against other factors; a teardrop shaped car would be extremely aerodynamic but it would have little interior space and look ugly. But there's another way; by shooting jets of compressed air behind the car, the low pressure zone can be eliminated. This is especially important as SUVs with large frontal areas come to dominate the auto market and the popularity of retro-styled boxy models like the Jeep Wrangler and Ford Bronco.
I for one am excited about how new technology will make cars cheaper and more pleasant to own and drive. The future is certainly bright. And if you're skeptical, remember that 2050 is just over 26 years from today. 26 years ago from today puts us in 1998. Back then, people could hardly dream of cars that could keep within their own lanes on highways, park themselves, and have 7,8, 9, or even 10 gears for maximum efficiency and performance.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
2050 is just over 26 years from today. 26 years ago from today puts us in 1998.
thanks, now I feel old
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor.
Out of curiosity, are you proficient in any programming languages?
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Which more or less was just a rehash of 1950s futurism. I did enjoy thinking 2015 was going to be way more interesting than it eventually turned out as a kid though.
At current pace, the car of 2050 will be an eighteen-wheeler that measures efficiency in pedestrians maimed per minute.
It will give you a nanny beep if you don't feed it enough limbs.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
With all this extra room, I think cars will begin serving as extra living space. You could sit in your car when it's parked and use it as an office or a den. Facilitating this will be seats made of lightweight materials that can be easily removed.
Can't wait to celebrate Thanksgiving Dinner with a family of 16 eating in a Kia.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 18, 2023, 12:06:56 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
With all this extra room, I think cars will begin serving as extra living space. You could sit in your car when it's parked and use it as an office or a den. Facilitating this will be seats made of lightweight materials that can be easily removed.
Can't wait to celebrate Thanksgiving Dinner with a family of 16 eating in a Kia.
I'm hoping that by 2050 Kia will just have fully rebranded to Nine Inch Nails. They already ripped off the logo, might as well go all in.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2023, 11:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Which more or less was just a rehash of 1950s futurism. I did enjoy thinking 2015 was going to be way more interesting than it eventually turned out as a kid though.
It's now 2023 and we have Wegovy and ChatGPT. Is it so hard to believe in rapid scientific progress?
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:35:14 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2023, 11:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Which more or less was just a rehash of 1950s futurism. I did enjoy thinking 2015 was going to be way more interesting than it eventually turned out as a kid though.
It's now 2023 and we have Wegovy and ChatGPT. Is it so hard to believe in rapid scientific progress?
Never even heard of the former and I've only heard of the latter from meme pages. So yes, quite the step down from the Mr. Fusion, hydration machine, hover boards and practical flying cars I was promised in the 1980s.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:35:14 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2023, 11:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Which more or less was just a rehash of 1950s futurism. I did enjoy thinking 2015 was going to be way more interesting than it eventually turned out as a kid though.
It's now 2023 and we have Wegovy and ChatGPT. Is it so hard to believe in rapid scientific progress?
The neural network models used in modern AI are not a panacea. It's important to remember that what is popularly called AI is not actually intelligence operating the same way that human intelligence does. While they work in some limited circumstances, modern AI algorithms are limited to probabilistic prediction and do not have the capability to handle anything novel that isn't a synthesis of information already in the training corpus. Asking for one to handle anything that wasn't included in the training corpus generally causes them to fall down in a pretty spectacular fashion. Using one in a safety-critical application like full self-driving introduces an unacceptable level of risk in a situation when the machine encounters a blind spot in the training corpus. And such a blind spot is nigh-inevitable—there is not enough money in the world to pay for the human labor that would be needed to compile a corpus consisting of every possible situation that may arise on the road.
This is why I inquired upthread as to your programming experience. It would seem you intentionally dodged the question, since answering in the negative would underscore your unfamiliarity with what is actually going on "under the hood" with modern AI, as well as what is and isn't generally possible with software.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
But the improvements to the motor car will go further than this. I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor.
Since all the "human laborers" will be laid off, who will have the money to buy these vehicles, no matter the cost? You can bet that if auto manufacturers can manage without labor, so will most other industries.
The OP seriously does not understand the lethargy of the automotive industry and the amount of lobbying that goes on to preserve their status quo. I thought like this and and hoped for a future where technology made things cheaper, but it's really just slow little gains and making our cars an extension of our little cell phones with dozens of nanny devices. The bleeding edge stuff goes into the vehicles costing roughly half the price of real estate, and then they get to be the beta testers, or it becomes an evolutionary cul-de-sac.
Quote from: GaryV on December 18, 2023, 08:19:05 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
But the improvements to the motor car will go further than this. I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor.
Since all the "human laborers" will be laid off, who will have the money to buy these vehicles, no matter the cost? You can bet that if auto manufacturers can manage without labor, so will most other industries.
We'll be toiling in the rare earth metal mines to feed our masters, since they'll become too bourgeoisie to want to do that messy task anymore.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2023, 12:26:23 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 18, 2023, 12:06:56 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
With all this extra room, I think cars will begin serving as extra living space. You could sit in your car when it's parked and use it as an office or a den. Facilitating this will be seats made of lightweight materials that can be easily removed.
Can't wait to celebrate Thanksgiving Dinner with a family of 16 eating in a Kia.
I'm hoping that by 2050 Kia will just have fully rebranded to Nine Inch Nails. They already ripped off the logo, might as well go all in.
Why stop there? The first EP title is prophetic...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/Nine_Inch_Nails_-_Broken_%28EP%29.png)
Quote from: Bruce on December 17, 2023, 11:57:40 PM
At current pace, the car of 2050 will be an eighteen-wheeler that measures efficiency in pedestrians maimed per minute.
It will give you a nanny beep if you don't feed it enough limbs.
Soon automobiles will be ten times larger and only the five richest kings of the Middle East can afford them. I also predict these vehicles of the future will have larger intake openings to eat humans, pets, and not just bikes. But deer strikes and carcasses will be a thing of the past. Why suffer with a mere 17-foot vehicle for going to the lifestyle enhancement center and megachurch, when something roughly the size of a locomotive or Airbus will take you there in style over that seven-mile drive?
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
THIS!!
The purpose of science is to discover what is true, not to invent whatever we wish to be true. The idea that by 2050 or 10000 years after that we will have "perfected" this or that battery or other technology, is not science. It is speculation, and uninformed speculation at that. It is certainly possible that everything there is to know about batteries is known. That is science.
What I find interesting about all the "futurama" kind of predictions is that no one, no where, not ever, predicted that we would be walking around with so much computing power in our pockets. Picture phones were a predicted thing, but they were big boxes that sat on the counter. And we still don't have flying cars in mass production.
The car of the future:
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hJYzbNn/TheHomer.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I expect flying cars to be drones that are able to carry the weight of a human.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_drone
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2023, 01:02:20 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:35:14 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2023, 11:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Which more or less was just a rehash of 1950s futurism. I did enjoy thinking 2015 was going to be way more interesting than it eventually turned out as a kid though.
It's now 2023 and we have Wegovy and ChatGPT. Is it so hard to believe in rapid scientific progress?
Never even heard of the former and I've only heard of the latter from meme pages. So yes, quite the step down from the Mr. Fusion, hydration machine, hover boards and practical flying cars I was promised in the 1980s.
Wegovy is an anti-obesity drug that may also cure a whole host of other addictions.
Quote from: GaryV on December 18, 2023, 09:13:11 AM
What I find interesting about all the "futurama" kind of predictions is that no one, no where, not ever, predicted that we would be walking around with so much computing power in our pockets. Picture phones were a predicted thing, but they were big boxes that sat on the counter. And we still don't have flying cars in mass production.
We've had flying cars since 1939, they're called helicopters
Quote from: GaryV on December 18, 2023, 08:19:05 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
But the improvements to the motor car will go further than this. I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor.
Since all the "human laborers" will be laid off, who will have the money to buy these vehicles, no matter the cost? You can bet that if auto manufacturers can manage without labor, so will most other industries.
Read up on the luddite fallacy.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2023, 02:12:39 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:35:14 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2023, 11:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Which more or less was just a rehash of 1950s futurism. I did enjoy thinking 2015 was going to be way more interesting than it eventually turned out as a kid though.
It's now 2023 and we have Wegovy and ChatGPT. Is it so hard to believe in rapid scientific progress?
The neural network models used in modern AI are not a panacea. It's important to remember that what is popularly called AI is not actually intelligence operating the same way that human intelligence does. While they work in some limited circumstances, modern AI algorithms are limited to probabilistic prediction and do not have the capability to handle anything novel that isn't a synthesis of information already in the training corpus. Asking for one to handle anything that wasn't included in the training corpus generally causes them to fall down in a pretty spectacular fashion. Using one in a safety-critical application like full self-driving introduces an unacceptable level of risk in a situation when the machine encounters a blind spot in the training corpus. And such a blind spot is nigh-inevitable—there is not enough money in the world to pay for the human labor that would be needed to compile a corpus consisting of every possible situation that may arise on the road.
This is why I inquired upthread as to your programming experience. It would seem you intentionally dodged the question, since answering in the negative would underscore your unfamiliarity with what is actually going on "under the hood" with modern AI, as well as what is and isn't generally possible with software.
Driverless cars don't need to be 100% safe, they just need to be noticeably safer than human drivers.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 10:08:17 AM
Quote from: GaryV on December 18, 2023, 08:19:05 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
But the improvements to the motor car will go further than this. I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor.
Since all the "human laborers" will be laid off, who will have the money to buy these vehicles, no matter the cost? You can bet that if auto manufacturers can manage without labor, so will most other industries.
Read up on the luddite fallacy.
work week reduction is probably on order. It's difficult in US with expensive benefits attached to full time paycheck though.
but trend towards shorter amount of time to support one's living is pretty solid over the history.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 10:03:44 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2023, 01:02:20 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:35:14 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2023, 11:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Which more or less was just a rehash of 1950s futurism. I did enjoy thinking 2015 was going to be way more interesting than it eventually turned out as a kid though.
It's now 2023 and we have Wegovy and ChatGPT. Is it so hard to believe in rapid scientific progress?
Never even heard of the former and I've only heard of the latter from meme pages. So yes, quite the step down from the Mr. Fusion, hydration machine, hover boards and practical flying cars I was promised in the 1980s.
Wegovy is an anti-obesity drug that may also cure a whole host of other addictions.
Why am I not surprised that you of all people suggest things like medical treatments first over good dietary habits and exercise.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2023, 10:53:48 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 10:03:44 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2023, 01:02:20 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:35:14 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2023, 11:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Which more or less was just a rehash of 1950s futurism. I did enjoy thinking 2015 was going to be way more interesting than it eventually turned out as a kid though.
It's now 2023 and we have Wegovy and ChatGPT. Is it so hard to believe in rapid scientific progress?
Never even heard of the former and I've only heard of the latter from meme pages. So yes, quite the step down from the Mr. Fusion, hydration machine, hover boards and practical flying cars I was promised in the 1980s.
Wegovy is an anti-obesity drug that may also cure a whole host of other addictions.
Why am I not surprised that you of all people suggest things like medical treatments first over good dietary habits and exercise.
Why am I not surprised that you of all people mock a scientific breakthrough that will increase the quality of life for billions of people?
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 10:55:10 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2023, 10:53:48 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 10:03:44 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2023, 01:02:20 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:35:14 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2023, 11:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Which more or less was just a rehash of 1950s futurism. I did enjoy thinking 2015 was going to be way more interesting than it eventually turned out as a kid though.
It's now 2023 and we have Wegovy and ChatGPT. Is it so hard to believe in rapid scientific progress?
Never even heard of the former and I've only heard of the latter from meme pages. So yes, quite the step down from the Mr. Fusion, hydration machine, hover boards and practical flying cars I was promised in the 1980s.
Wegovy is an anti-obesity drug that may also cure a whole host of other addictions.
Why am I not surprised that you of all people suggest things like medical treatments first over good dietary habits and exercise.
Why am I not surprised that you of all people mock a scientific breakthrough that will increase the quality of life for billions of people?
Nah, I just enjoy mocking the infantile adult who advocates global warming because he can't stop tripping over sidewalks during the winter.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Companies won't lower their prices just because they can afford to do so and stay in business. When production costs decrease in a rather inelastic industry such as American cars, it's producer surplus that increases, not consumer surplus.
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Companies won't lower their prices just because they can afford to do so and stay in business. When production costs decrease in a rather inelastic industry such as American cars, it's producer surplus that increases, not consumer surplus.
At least one automaker will cut their prices to bring in more sales and the other automakers will follow suit.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Companies won't lower their prices just because they can afford to do so and stay in business. When production costs decrease in a rather inelastic industry such as American cars, it's producer surplus that increases, not consumer surplus.
At least one automaker will cut their prices to bring in more sales and the other automakers will follow suit.
Or lobby like hell to prevent it from being sold in the US.
Quote from: formulanone on December 18, 2023, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Companies won't lower their prices just because they can afford to do so and stay in business. When production costs decrease in a rather inelastic industry such as American cars, it's producer surplus that increases, not consumer surplus.
At least one automaker will cut their prices to bring in more sales and the other automakers will follow suit.
Or lobby like hell to prevent it from being sold in the US.
How many different automakers are there in the US today? One of the biggest ones, Tesla, didn't even exist 20 years ago.
Kernals is the type that watches Demolition Man and thinks its an awesome future. We'll be in our self-driving cars 30 years from now, going to Taco Bell, singing along to Ozempic ads emanating from our car stereos.
Quote from: SectorZ on December 18, 2023, 12:46:33 PM
Kernals is the type that watches Demolition Man and thinks its an awesome future. We'll be in our self-driving cars 30 years from now, going to Taco Bell, singing along to Ozempic ads emanating from our car stereos.
I wonder what his boggle is?
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:41:10 PM
Quote from: formulanone on December 18, 2023, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Companies won't lower their prices just because they can afford to do so and stay in business. When production costs decrease in a rather inelastic industry such as American cars, it's producer surplus that increases, not consumer surplus.
At least one automaker will cut their prices to bring in more sales and the other automakers will follow suit.
Or lobby like hell to prevent it from being sold in the US.
How many different automakers are there in the US today? One of the biggest ones, Tesla, didn't even exist 20 years ago.
That's true, they're one of the few manufacturers to actually continuously make vehicles for the last 15 years. But prices have not come down significantly despite the competition (that's also a function of inflation, unyielding consumer demand, supply costs, labor, greed, et cetera).
Automakers, suppliers, marketers, personal tastes, and dealerships are keen to upsell ever larger vehicles and they always cost more than something smaller.
Quote from: formulanone on December 18, 2023, 01:39:13 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:41:10 PM
Quote from: formulanone on December 18, 2023, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Companies won't lower their prices just because they can afford to do so and stay in business. When production costs decrease in a rather inelastic industry such as American cars, it's producer surplus that increases, not consumer surplus.
At least one automaker will cut their prices to bring in more sales and the other automakers will follow suit.
Or lobby like hell to prevent it from being sold in the US.
How many different automakers are there in the US today? One of the biggest ones, Tesla, didn't even exist 20 years ago.
That's true, they're one of the few manufacturers to actually continuously make vehicles for the last 15 years. But prices have not come down significantly despite the competition (that's also a function of inflation, unyielding consumer demand, supply costs, labor, greed, et cetera).
Last time I heard, tesla was selling cars at a loss...
Quote from: SectorZ on December 18, 2023, 12:46:33 PM
Kernals is the type that watches Demolition Man and thinks its an awesome future. We'll be in our self-driving cars 30 years from now, going to Taco Bell, singing along to Ozempic ads emanating from our car stereos.
AM or FM?
Quote from: GaryV on December 18, 2023, 02:39:00 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on December 18, 2023, 12:46:33 PM
Kernals is the type that watches Demolition Man and thinks its an awesome future. We'll be in our self-driving cars 30 years from now, going to Taco Bell, singing along to Ozempic ads emanating from our car stereos.
AM or FM?
Streaming in Adify.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2023, 02:12:39 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:35:14 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2023, 11:06:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 17, 2023, 11:04:11 PM
I remember futurist crap from the 1980s. Same bat time, same bat channel...
Which more or less was just a rehash of 1950s futurism. I did enjoy thinking 2015 was going to be way more interesting than it eventually turned out as a kid though.
It's now 2023 and we have Wegovy and ChatGPT. Is it so hard to believe in rapid scientific progress?
The neural network models used in modern AI are not a panacea. It's important to remember that what is popularly called AI is not actually intelligence operating the same way that human intelligence does. While they work in some limited circumstances, modern AI algorithms are limited to probabilistic prediction and do not have the capability to handle anything novel that isn't a synthesis of information already in the training corpus. Asking for one to handle anything that wasn't included in the training corpus generally causes them to fall down in a pretty spectacular fashion. Using one in a safety-critical application like full self-driving introduces an unacceptable level of risk in a situation when the machine encounters a blind spot in the training corpus. And such a blind spot is nigh-inevitable—there is not enough money in the world to pay for the human labor that would be needed to compile a corpus consisting of every possible situation that may arise on the road.
This is why I inquired upthread as to your programming experience. It would seem you intentionally dodged the question, since answering in the negative would underscore your unfamiliarity with what is actually going on "under the hood" with modern AI, as well as what is and isn't generally possible with software.
Driverless cars don't need to be 100% safe, they just need to be noticeably safer than human drivers.
As someone who dabbles in programming as part of my job, I feel fairly secure in stating that this is probably not going to be achievable without some sort of groundbreaking revolution in the way software is written. There are just too many problems involved in driving that are impossible to solve procedurally.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Companies won't lower their prices just because they can afford to do so and stay in business. When production costs decrease in a rather inelastic industry such as American cars, it's producer surplus that increases, not consumer surplus.
At least one automaker will cut their prices to bring in more sales and the other automakers will follow suit.
Company A drops their price by $5000. Company A's sales spike for a bit, but companies B, C, D, E, F, G, and H soon match the price. Now company A is selling the same number of cars again, but at a lower profit margin. Less money.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2023, 08:43:08 PM
There are just too many problems involved in driving that are impossible to solve procedurally.
What do you have in mind here? And how are they solved with people drivers?
Quote from: SP Cook on December 18, 2023, 09:07:54 AM
It is certainly possible that everything there is to know about batteries is known.
No, it isn't. There are people out there working right now on things we haven't figured out yet.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 19, 2023, 12:01:44 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2023, 08:43:08 PM
There are just too many problems involved in driving that are impossible to solve procedurally.
What do you have in mind here? And how are they solved with people drivers?
It's hard, but possible, to teach a computer what a traffic cone is. Once it knows that, it's easy to tell it what to do when it sees a traffic cone. It is very difficult to tell it that it can safely ignore cones being hauled in the back of a DOT truck without getting it to also ignore cones it shouldn't.
A human doesn't even consider dodging to avoid a cone in the back of a DOT truck because human brains reflexively understand context, and procedural code does not.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 19, 2023, 12:31:04 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 19, 2023, 12:01:44 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2023, 08:43:08 PM
There are just too many problems involved in driving that are impossible to solve procedurally.
What do you have in mind here? And how are they solved with people drivers?
It's hard, but possible, to teach a computer what a traffic cone is. Once it knows that, it's easy to tell it what to do when it sees a traffic cone. It is very difficult to tell it that it can safely ignore cones being hauled in the back of a DOT truck without getting it to also ignore cones it shouldn't.
A human doesn't even consider dodging to avoid a cone in the back of a DOT truck because human brains reflexively understand context, and procedural code does not.
While I am not an expert, AI - neural networks - are not procedural. They are, from my understanding, some flavor of black box filled with black magic. Not unlike human brain, actually - except for those being filled with gray matter.
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:53:28 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Companies won't lower their prices just because they can afford to do so and stay in business. When production costs decrease in a rather inelastic industry such as American cars, it's producer surplus that increases, not consumer surplus.
At least one automaker will cut their prices to bring in more sales and the other automakers will follow suit.
Company A drops their price by $5000. Company A's sales spike for a bit, but companies B, C, D, E, F, G, and H soon match the price. Now company A is selling the same number of cars again, but at a lower profit margin. Less money.
Nor necessarily. If cars are cheaper, people will replace their cars more frequently
Quote from: kernals12 on December 19, 2023, 07:34:03 AM
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:53:28 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Companies won't lower their prices just because they can afford to do so and stay in business. When production costs decrease in a rather inelastic industry such as American cars, it's producer surplus that increases, not consumer surplus.
At least one automaker will cut their prices to bring in more sales and the other automakers will follow suit.
Company A drops their price by $5000. Company A's sales spike for a bit, but companies B, C, D, E, F, G, and H soon match the price. Now company A is selling the same number of cars again, but at a lower profit margin. Less money.
Nor necessarily. If cars are cheaper, people will replace their cars more frequently
Well that is the goal with futurists, make everything more disposable. Maybe just let people lease cars at this point. You will own nothing and like it.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 19, 2023, 07:34:03 AM
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:53:28 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2023, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 18, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2023, 10:38:40 PM
I expect that the car of tomorrow will cost thousands of dollars rather than tens of thousands. The same AI advances that will enable cars to drive themselves will also allow them to be built with almost no human labor. The next opportunity for cost reductions comes from on-board electronics. A Deloitte study from 2017 estimated that a staggering 40% of the cost of a new car is from electronics. The replacement of today's complicated photolithography semiconductor production methods with nanoimprint lithography or even inkjet printing would dramatically slash that cost. The final opportunity for cost reductions comes from the substitution of steel for new alloys and polymers that are stronger and lighter and can be molded as easily as plastic. That would mean many components could be produced as one-piece rather than multiple pieces that have to be welded or bolted together.
Companies won't lower their prices just because they can afford to do so and stay in business. When production costs decrease in a rather inelastic industry such as American cars, it's producer surplus that increases, not consumer surplus.
At least one automaker will cut their prices to bring in more sales and the other automakers will follow suit.
Company A drops their price by $5000. Company A's sales spike for a bit, but companies B, C, D, E, F, G, and H soon match the price. Now company A is selling the same number of cars again, but at a lower profit margin. Less money.
Nor necessarily. If cars are cheaper, people will replace their cars more frequently
But they won't be cheaper.
Computer prices went way down from 1980 to 2000. Why not cars?
Computers were largely a new consumer item in the 1980s. I would expect EV prices to fall over time as the demand increases and technology improves, probably not so much for the average car though.
Quote from: 1 on December 19, 2023, 09:51:38 AM
Computer prices went way down from 1980 to 2000. Why not cars?
Because demand for computers at that time was far more elastic than demand for cars is now. (Elastic meaning subject to change based on price.)
Computers at that time were a want, not a need, for most people. Cars, in the US, are seen as a need for almost everyone except those in a handful of urban areas such as New York.
The reason why this matters is because when demand is more elastic, companies can increase profits by lowering the price, as the increased number of units sold makes up for a smaller margin. Therefore they lower the price. In the case of American cars, demand is less elastic, and the increased cars sold at a lower price likely would not make up for the smaller margin (obviously I'm not running the numbers at Ford or GM but it's pretty obvious that cars are seen as a need, and almost all people who need one already have one.)
Another example along the lines of early computers is flying. When widespread flying became possible, it was in airlines' best interest to decrease prices because at the previous price point it was only available to the richest people. By making it financially available to the middle class, they made more money in total.
Quote from: thspfc on December 19, 2023, 11:33:09 AM
Quote from: 1 on December 19, 2023, 09:51:38 AM
Computer prices went way down from 1980 to 2000. Why not cars?
Because demand for computers at that time was far more elastic than demand for cars is now. (Elastic meaning subject to change based on price.)
Computers at that time were a want, not a need, for most people. Cars, in the US, are seen as a need for almost everyone except those in a handful of urban areas such as New York.
The reason why this matters is because when demand is more elastic, companies can increase profits by lowering the price, as the increased number of units sold makes up for a smaller margin. Therefore they lower the price. In the case of American cars, demand is less elastic, and the increased cars sold at a lower price likely would not make up for the smaller margin (obviously I'm not running the numbers at Ford or GM but it's pretty obvious that cars are seen as a need, and almost all people who need one already have one.)
Another example along the lines of early computers is flying. When widespread flying became possible, it was in airlines' best interest to decrease prices because at the previous price point it was only available to the richest people. By making it financially available to the middle class, they made more money in total.
oh, and you never heard about airline deregulation?
As for demand elasticity for cars, there are options for pushing for longer service time. That provides enough short-term elasticity.
We certainly bought both our current cars while previous ones had fixable problems - but were coming to the point of "is it cost-efficient to fix?".
Quote from: kalvado on December 19, 2023, 07:04:38 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 19, 2023, 12:31:04 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 19, 2023, 12:01:44 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2023, 08:43:08 PM
There are just too many problems involved in driving that are impossible to solve procedurally.
What do you have in mind here? And how are they solved with people drivers?
It's hard, but possible, to teach a computer what a traffic cone is. Once it knows that, it's easy to tell it what to do when it sees a traffic cone. It is very difficult to tell it that it can safely ignore cones being hauled in the back of a DOT truck without getting it to also ignore cones it shouldn't.
A human doesn't even consider dodging to avoid a cone in the back of a DOT truck because human brains reflexively understand context, and procedural code does not.
While I am not an expert, AI - neural networks - are not procedural. They are, from my understanding, some flavor of black box filled with black magic. Not unlike human brain, actually - except for those being filled with gray matter.
At a low enough level, all code is procedural, even black magic, because processors are procedural.
This is how an AI neural network works: The computer uses a random number generator to produce a few random procedures, then runs them and produces the results of each for a human to inspect. The human selects the one that produced the most correct result. The computer then uses the RNG to produce a few random variations on that procedure, and presents the human with the results of each. The human picks the most correct one, and so on and so forth. Eventually you end up with a super complicated procedure that looks like magic, and that's what ships as "the AI" (or more formally as a checkpoint). But if you break it open it's a bunch of if/then do/while like anything else, it's just way more complex than a human could have written unassisted.
If you ever get a chance to fool around with the Stable Diffusion AI image generator, you can see this play out in real time, as it uses a similar algorithm to generate its images (it starts with a picture of white noise, and then iteratively selects the variation that best matches the prompt, so you can see the image take shape out of the static).
The car of 1950 isn't much different than the car of 2000. They both have four wheels, a steering wheel, a transmission, a driveshaft, a windshield, a speedometer, and an engine.
The exterior stylings are clearly different as well as the engineering improvements, but that is all largely background. My uncle, a mechanic's mechanic, tried and failed to get a 1942 Ford pickup running but the interior wasn't much different from a modern car.
Quote from: Road Hog on December 20, 2023, 03:01:35 AM
The car of 1950 isn't much different than the car of 2000. They both have four wheels, a steering wheel, a transmission, a driveshaft, a windshield, a speedometer, and an engine.
The exterior stylings are clearly different as well as the engineering improvements, but that is all largely background. My uncle, a mechanic's mechanic, tried and failed to get a 1942 Ford pickup running but the interior wasn't much different from a modern car.
Tell me you're being facetious
Quote from: kernals12 on December 20, 2023, 09:57:36 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 20, 2023, 03:01:35 AM
The car of 1950 isn't much different than the car of 2000. They both have four wheels, a steering wheel, a transmission, a driveshaft, a windshield, a speedometer, and an engine.
The exterior stylings are clearly different as well as the engineering improvements, but that is all largely background. My uncle, a mechanic's mechanic, tried and failed to get a 1942 Ford pickup running but the interior wasn't much different from a modern car.
Tell me you're being facetious
Why, this isn't fundamentally wrong.
Try to list actual major changes..
-electronic injection
-transmission: manual - automatic - CVT
-rear - front - 4 wheel drive
-catalytic converter
-cylinder honing
-higher compression and better fuel
-airbags
-much better crash survivability
-computational fluid dynamics optimized body
(added later)
-ABS and its advanced forms like traction control
-emerging driver aids, like following distance and blind spot control
-autodriver isn't here yet.
anything else you can add? Although these are great things, none of them is a conceptual change to a "car as a box with a motor, 4 wheels, some chairs etc"
Since 1967, as a portion of personal income, the cost of new cars has fallen by over 80% accounting for quality improvements.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1cY22
Quote from: kernals12 on December 20, 2023, 05:58:59 PM
Since 1967, as a portion of personal income, the cost of new cars has fallen by over 80% accounting for quality improvements.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1cY22
I had a dog named Fred once.
Quote from: SectorZ on December 20, 2023, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 20, 2023, 05:58:59 PM
Since 1967, as a portion of personal income, the cost of new cars has fallen by over 80% accounting for quality improvements.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1cY22
I had a dog named Fred once.
Ricky Ricardo Jr.?
Quote from: kernals12 on December 20, 2023, 05:58:59 PM
Since 1967, as a portion of personal income, the cost of new cars has fallen by over 80% accounting for quality improvements.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1cY22
Or maybe not
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_otfwl2zc6Qc/SFUpAnVYGkI/AAAAAAAAE2w/ifahS8kTeAc/s1600-h/newcars2.bmp)
(https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/chart-light-truck-car-light-vehicle-prices.jpg)
^^ He put in the qualifier of quality improvements added.
Quote from: Big John on December 20, 2023, 07:35:18 PM
^^ He put in the qualifier of quality improvements added.
But the grass was much greener back then!
Makes one wonder though, how much of the improvements would really be purchased by the average buyer if they had not been mandated? Stuff like safety and emission regulations certainly weren't free in the 1970s nor are now. The cost always gets passed onto the consumer somewhere.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 20, 2023, 07:45:52 PM
Makes one wonder though, how much of the improvements would really be purchased by the average buyer if they had not been mandated? Stuff like safety and emission regulations certainly weren't free in the 1970s nor are now. The cost always gets passed onto the consumer somewhere.
There's been no laws mandating all the extra horsepower today's engines have or things like air conditioning, heated seats, and power windows.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 20, 2023, 09:40:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 20, 2023, 07:45:52 PM
Makes one wonder though, how much of the improvements would really be purchased by the average buyer if they had not been mandated? Stuff like safety and emission regulations certainly weren't free in the 1970s nor are now. The cost always gets passed onto the consumer somewhere.
There's been no laws mandating all the extra horsepower today's engines have or things like air conditioning, heated seats, and power windows.
So, if you get to cherry-pick data that agrees fully with the narrative you are trying to spin how come any of us can't find counter points? Cars are one of those items which in the last half century have out paced inflation. I don't know what the point all these futurism posts are when all you seem to be after is agreement with your opinions. I gather this didn't go well for you on Reddit, why do you think it will go better on a road forum?
I probably wouldn't trust self-driving cars, plus that takes away alot of the enjoyment of driving. Personally I prefer the warmer weather, although one climate theory is that GW will actually cause some winters to be colder, so I don't know. Miami is lucky to essentially not have a winter.
Quote from: DriverDave on December 20, 2023, 11:03:37 PM
I probably wouldn't trust self-driving cars, plus that takes away alot of the enjoyment of driving. Personally I prefer the warmer weather, although one climate theory is that GW will actually cause some winters to be colder, so I don't know. Miami is lucky to essentially not have a winter.
What does that have to do with anything?
Quote from: kernals12 on December 21, 2023, 04:17:41 AM
Quote from: DriverDave on December 20, 2023, 11:03:37 PM
I probably wouldn't trust self-driving cars, plus that takes away alot of the enjoyment of driving. Personally I prefer the warmer weather, although one climate theory is that GW will actually cause some winters to be colder, so I don't know. Miami is lucky to essentially not have a winter.
What does that have to do with anything?
Oh, we're smart enough to connect any two dots, even if they weren't meant to be connected.
a. Self-driving cars might be less trustworthy in winter weather.
b. The car of 2050 will be all-electric, but batteries are adversely affected by the cold of weather.
c. |DriverDave| is lousy at winter driving, therefore he enjoys it less than summer driving.
d. ... ?
Quote from: kernals12 on December 21, 2023, 04:17:41 AM
Quote from: DriverDave on December 20, 2023, 11:03:37 PM
I probably wouldn't trust self-driving cars, plus that takes away alot of the enjoyment of driving. Personally I prefer the warmer weather, although one climate theory is that GW will actually cause some winters to be colder, so I don't know. Miami is lucky to essentially not have a winter.
What does that have to do with anything?
Achievement unlocked: trolled troll!
Thought of Kernals when I saw this:
📸 Look at this post on Facebook https://m.facebook.com/groups/618193501649657/permalink/3265495380252776/?mibextid=S66gvF
Quote from: kalvado on December 20, 2023, 10:10:26 AM
Quote from: kernals12 on December 20, 2023, 09:57:36 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 20, 2023, 03:01:35 AM
The car of 1950 isn't much different than the car of 2000. They both have four wheels, a steering wheel, a transmission, a driveshaft, a windshield, a speedometer, and an engine.
The exterior stylings are clearly different as well as the engineering improvements, but that is all largely background. My uncle, a mechanic's mechanic, tried and failed to get a 1942 Ford pickup running but the interior wasn't much different from a modern car.
Tell me you're being facetious
Why, this isn't fundamentally wrong.
Try to list actual major changes..
-electronic injection
-transmission: manual - automatic - CVT
-rear - front - 4 wheel drive
-catalytic converter
-cylinder honing
-higher compression and better fuel
-airbags
-much better crash survivability
-computational fluid dynamics optimized body
(added later)
-ABS and its advanced forms like traction control
-emerging driver aids, like following distance and blind spot control
-autodriver isn't here yet.
anything else you can add? Although these are great things, none of them is a conceptual change to a "car as a box with a motor, 4 wheels, some chairs etc"
I got one: For engine, it would be "Internal combustion -- hybrid -- all-electric motor".
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 21, 2023, 10:07:33 PM
Thought of Kernals when I saw this:
📸 Look at this post on Facebook https://m.facebook.com/groups/618193501649657/permalink/3265495380252776/?mibextid=S66gvF
Bruce Vilanch checking in on that one.
Quote from: Henry on December 21, 2023, 10:19:36 PM
I got one: For engine, it would be "Internal combustion -- hybrid -- all-electric motor".
Sounds to me like a mini version of a modern-day railroad locomotive. :nod:
Mike