QuoteToday I-794 poses an unnecessary barrier between two of our flagship neighborhoods, but it doesn't have to be this way. Between the northern terminus of the Hoan Bridge and Waters Street, I-794's footprint consumes 32.5 acres of the most valuable commercial and residential real estate in Wisconsin, estimated to be worth as much as $1.5 billion. The east-west section of I-794 has reached the end of its useful life, presenting a once in a generation opportunity to reconnect Milwaukee's traditional commercial center to the Third Ward. WisDOT's own data shows that this portion of I-794 is underutilized as majority of I-794's riders are traveling to and from downtown and the Third Ward rather than using the full length of the interstate. Our goal is to have the City of Milwaukee and WisDOT study a boulevard alternative for this portion of I-794.
Imagine Clybourn Street as a Boulevard
From their website!
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/rldjuzwc0zawe55/1%20-%20Rethink%20794%20BOULEVARD%20VIEW%20before%20%28reduced%29.jpg?raw=1)
Check them out at
https://www.rethink794.com/ (https://www.rethink794.com/)
Water Street (No S). Much of that stretch was reconstructed with the Marquette Interchange project from 2005-08 so is relatively new.
Also belongs in the regional boards.
I will move it! Sorry for posting it here
Opportunity
Today I-794 poses an unnecessary barrier between two of our flagship neighborhoods, but it doesn't have to be this way. Between the northern terminus of the Hoan Bridge and Waters Street, I-794's footprint consumes 32.5 acres of the most valuable commercial and residential real estate in Wisconsin, estimated to be worth as much as $1.5 billion. The east-west section of I-794 has reached the end of its useful life, presenting a once in a generation opportunity to reconnect Milwaukee's traditional commercial center to the Third Ward. WisDOT's own data shows that this portion of I-794 is underutilized as majority of I-794's riders are traveling to and from downtown and the Third Ward rather than using the full length of the interstate. Our goal is to have the City of Milwaukee and WisDOT study a boulevard alternative for this portion of I-794.
Imagine Clybourn Street as a Boulevard
From their website
(https://uc6af6d0f8b3ef8478918ee045b5.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/cd/0/inline/COAlugcLbwmSVE2MXpPT1eIwW39lAWrMi6y5I1YXZl9x2yXYNZWFRO1O3GxdSLLRhhSiHys-0vhapEeHRC8mDVd5Y0VwCOBAvqfYe00preRJW1XxiiPUHcwIi0En6CAjz15j-SVVeZin6O7S9sJ56XZu/file#)
Support them here! ----> https://www.rethink794.com/ (https://www.rethink794.com/)
The freeway is already built, can easily be walked under, and serves a purpose, connecting the lakefront and the Hoan Bridge to the main freeway network.
This issue has also been on my mind in recent months, but have not gotten around to posting on it in here. This is one in which I am a bit of an agnostic. There is a definite collective 'gush fest' under way among many posters in another Milwaukee-area forvm that I follow over the thought of abandoning and removing the east-west part of I-794, to the point of it being very off-putting.
I'll have to wait until the engineers at WisDOT have had the time that they need to study it, but one also has to remember that whatever is decided, it will be years before anything is done, especially WRT the recently-rebuilt Marquette interchange.
Mike
Time will tell what happens to I-794
I mean true but it is a possibilty
Quote from: Brandon on February 26, 2024, 12:18:13 PM
The freeway is already built, can easily be walked under, and serves a purpose, connecting the lakefront and the Hoan Bridge to the main freeway network.
It's also ugly, and will cost a lot to replace. It would be good to look at other alternatives, just like WIDOT is doing now.
Exactly what im thinking
I would strongly oppose removing Interstate 794 between the Marquette and Lake Interchanges. I believe it is a needed connection within Milwaukee's freeway system. That being said, I do believe the freeway should be reconfigured to be less of a barrier to the area, and to free up some land to be redeveloped. I would prefer either Freeway Improvement Concept #5 or Freeway Improvement Concept #6, since both would provide exit and entrance ramps on the right-hand-side. The freeway reconfiguration and the new street grid should serve all transportation needs within the Historic Third Ward District.
Why are there two The Rethink Interstate 794 Project threads? They should be merged into one thread.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 26, 2024, 02:06:55 PMWhy are there two The Rethink Interstate 794 Project threads? They should be merged into one thread.
Now done. One of the threads was originally on the General Highway board.
Thank you for moving it! :nod:
I do have a close interest in this project, since I have traveled along Interstate (and State Highway) 794 a number of times in my life. As I said, I don't want 794 torn down, and I also hope that not only is it retained, I would also like it if the long-proposed (2010) Lake Parkway Extension to STH 100 (https://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPC/Transportation/LakeParkwayExtensionStudy.htm) is eventually constructed as well. I have had an interest in the Lake Parkway extension proposal since it would go past the house my paternal grandparents once lived in.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 26, 2024, 02:53:19 PM
I do have a close interest in this project, since I have traveled along Interstate (and State Highway) 794 a number of times in my life. As I said, I don't want 794 torn down, and I also hope that not only is it retained, I would also like it if the long-proposed (2010) Lake Parkway Extension to STH 100 (https://www.sewrpc.org/SEWRPC/Transportation/LakeParkwayExtensionStudy.htm) is eventually constructed as well. I have had an interest in the Lake Parkway extension proposal since it would go past the house my paternal grandparents once lived in.
I put the chances at I-794 being retained as a freeway at about 30%. I put the chances at WI-794 being extended to WI-100 at about 0.0004%.
Lot of thoughts shared on this subject about a year ago in the Milwaukee Freeways (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4191.msg2812408#msg2812408) thread.
I'm still pretty much on the same page I was in that discussion.
My views on the matter are also unchanged from what I posted on that thread. Don't tear down 794!
Wasn't there another thread about this project? Or was it lumped into another larger thread?
Either way, let it be known I still do not support removing the freeway. I think it can be condensed into something a lot smaller, taking up less footprint. That is more than sufficient, and the logical compromise.
As someone who actually lives in Milwaukee (unlike many people who tout how important Interstate 794 is in this forum), I'd like to see it ripped down. These are from my own experiences navigating downtown, and working in a building right next to I-794 (and seeing a scant amount of traffic on it during my lunch breaks).
In exchange for literally tearing downtown Milwaukee in half, you have a freeway that carries as much thru traffic as Lincoln Memorial Drive (a surface street near the lake), that isn't even that good of an alternative to an existing route unless even more money is spent on it. It's another Park East Freeway situation. It would be slightly different if I-794 weren't so substandard south of the bridge, and actually went anywhere besides Oak Creek (which I-94 grazes anyways). It isn't useful enough to keep 12 square blocks blighted.
I've never really seen it crowded. If you really are that worried about driving through downtown on a surface parkway, use Becher Street to get to the Port of Milwaukee instead.
I don't live in Milwaukee now, but I did for a number of years. Do a thorough study, but I would be inclined to rip it down.
The only piece of it I'd wonder about tearing down is the bridge over the river. I suppose city streets cross it quite nearby.
Quote from: Rothman on February 29, 2024, 12:44:46 PM
The only piece of it I'd wonder about tearing down is the bridge over the river. I suppose city streets cross it quite nearby.
The river crossing surface street immediately to its south (St. Paul Ave) has a recently built active 'Hop' tram line in it, too.
Mike
Quote from: JoePCool14 on February 28, 2024, 10:11:38 PM
Wasn't there another thread about this project? Or was it lumped into another larger thread?
Uh...
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 27, 2024, 11:52:55 AM
Lot of thoughts shared on this subject about a year ago in the Milwaukee Freeways (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4191.msg2812408#msg2812408) thread.
Having lived in Milwaukee during the Marquette Interchange reconstruction when access to 794 was limited for long stretches, I saw firsthand that traffic adapted. The city will get on just fine if the decision is made to tear down this E-W portion of 794. It served its purpose, but priorities are changing. The city is less about heavy manufacturing now and shipping traffic in the port is down. The Port of Milwaukee is not the major grain export terminal it was 60 years ago.
The Hoan Bridge will still exist. The Lake Parkway isn't going anywhere. Thanks to previous construction closures, we already know traffic will be just fine without a viaduct thru downtown. I'm open to retiring I-794.
I'd be interested in an update on the Rethink 794 study, since they haven't announced any new Public Information Meetings yet. The last one was in August 2023, and the February e-Blast (https://assets-global.website-files.com/647f3615434dca744e168f93/65c1159443da67dca6e2b765_794-lake-interchange-study_FEB-Eblast.pdf) doesn't give much new information. Hopefully, the next PIM will happen soon.
I-794 would also be much more important today if the Park and Lake-South freeways were completed as originally planned.
Mike
To many moviegoers, the greatest memory of I-794 will always be when the Blues Brothers evade the Nazis by pulling an Evel Knievel off a ghost ramp.
That said, I don't think the freeway will be removed, despite the big push to get it done.
Those Evel Kenivel ramps in The Blues Brothers (1980) would have led to a northern continuation of the Lake Freeway (Exit 1F on existing Interstate 794), but they were torn down and connected with Lincoln Memorial Drive in 1983: https://wisconsinhighways.org/milwaukee/lake.html. The Lake Interchange has since been reconfigured, and will likely undergo a second reconfiguration if one of the Freeway Improvement alternatives is chosen (which is what I hope happens to 794).
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 02, 2024, 04:22:39 PM
Those Evel Kenivel ramps in The Blues Brothers (1980) would have led to a northern continuation of the Lake Freeway (Exit 1F on existing Interstate 794), but they were torn down and connected with Lincoln Memorial Drive in 1983: https://wisconsinhighways.org/milwaukee/lake.html. The Lake Interchange has since been reconfigured, and will likely undergo a second reconfiguration if one of the Freeway Improvement alternatives is chosen (which is what I hope happens to 794).
I strongly suspect that if the 'dismantle and not replace' option is chosen, that that resulting intersection will be a two-lane roundabout.
Mike
Apologies all, hoping the link works, but there's been some new renderings of what would happen if 794 was demolished.
I feel it's very wishful thinking, though the renderings are pretty cool.
https://kuula.co/share/5wZBr?logo=-1&info=0&fs=0&vr=0&gyro=0&thumbs=1&margin=10 (https://kuula.co/share/5wZBr?logo=-1&info=0&fs=0&vr=0&gyro=0&thumbs=1&margin=10)
Quote from: OCGuy81 on July 31, 2024, 04:31:05 PMApologies all, hoping the link works, but there's been some new renderings of what would happen if 794 was demolished.
I feel it's very wishful thinking, though the renderings are pretty cool.
https://kuula.co/share/5wZBr?logo=-1&info=0&fs=0&vr=0&gyro=0&thumbs=1&margin=10 (https://kuula.co/share/5wZBr?logo=-1&info=0&fs=0&vr=0&gyro=0&thumbs=1&margin=10)
The link works just fine for me, and so I got to check out the future drawings of Downtown Milwaukee (they look really awesome!).
This is probably gonna happen, but I really wish it wouldn't. What a shame.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMThis is probably gonna happen, but I really wish it wouldn't. What a shame.
Do you have first-hand knowledge of the area?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 02, 2024, 09:07:48 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMThis is probably gonna happen, but I really wish it wouldn't. What a shame.
Do you have first-hand knowledge of the area?
No, I don't. But it would be logical to extend it and build a tunnel under the airport and connect it to I 94. That could act as a very useful bypass if there's anything happening on I 94.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 02:59:31 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 02, 2024, 09:07:48 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMThis is probably gonna happen, but I really wish it wouldn't. What a shame.
Do you have first-hand knowledge of the area?
No, I don't. But it would be logical to extend it and build a tunnel under the airport and connect it to I 94. That could act as a very useful bypass if there's anything happening on I 94.
That is completely illogical.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 02, 2024, 03:07:32 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 02:59:31 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 02, 2024, 09:07:48 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMThis is probably gonna happen, but I really wish it wouldn't. What a shame.
Do you have first-hand knowledge of the area?
No, I don't. But it would be logical to extend it and build a tunnel under the airport and connect it to I 94. That could act as a very useful bypass if there's anything happening on I 94.
That is completely illogical.
How?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 02:59:31 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 02, 2024, 09:07:48 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMThis is probably gonna happen, but I really wish it wouldn't. What a shame.
Do you have first-hand knowledge of the area?
No, I don't. But it would be logical to extend it and build a tunnel under the airport and connect it to I 94. That could act as a very useful bypass if there's anything happening on I 94.
Howell Ave / STH 38
Existing streets work well for access to the MKE airport from the east. 794 would have worked well had it been built out as originally planned, as a six lane alternative to I-94 (the 'Lake freeway') southward to the Illinois state line. As it is now, it is a four lane 'quasi-freeway' that connects the south lakefront area to the I-794 'Hoan' bridge.
Mike
Even without my proposed extension, which, obviously in today's climate would never fly, What is tearing out this highway going to do? They're still gonna have to build a road. Looking on Google maps it goes through a pretty industrious area other than the mile or so that it slithers through downtown and it seems like there's other ways to reduce its impact on dividing the areas it goes through.
It also connects a big neighborhood south of downtown. So you're still going to have a lot of car traffic but now it'll be on a downgraded road. I don't see the good that it'll do.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 03:13:11 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 02, 2024, 03:07:32 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 02:59:31 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 02, 2024, 09:07:48 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMThis is probably gonna happen, but I really wish it wouldn't. What a shame.
Do you have first-hand knowledge of the area?
No, I don't. But it would be logical to extend it and build a tunnel under the airport and connect it to I 94. That could act as a very useful bypass if there's anything happening on I 94.
That is completely illogical.
How?
Way too expensive to bypass a highway that is usually easily managed...not to mention a bunch of surface streets that are just fine alternatives.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 04:57:06 PMEven without my proposed extension, which, obviously in today's climate would never fly, What is tearing out this highway going to do? They're still gonna have to build a road. Looking on Google maps it goes through a pretty industrious area other than the mile or so that it slithers through downtown and it seems like there's other ways to reduce its impact on dividing the areas it goes through.
It also connects a big neighborhood south of downtown. So you're still going to have a lot of car traffic but now it'll be on a downgraded road. I don't see the good that it'll do.
Connecting the Third Ward better to downtown would be tremendous. The other traffic will find its way.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 02:59:31 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 02, 2024, 09:07:48 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMThis is probably gonna happen, but I really wish it wouldn't. What a shame.
Do you have first-hand knowledge of the area?
No, I don't. But it would be logical to extend it and build a tunnel under the airport and connect it to I 94. That could act as a very useful bypass if there's anything happening on I 94.
Definitely superfluous. Layton Ave, Howell Ave and College Ave, not to mention the rebuilt 8-lane (and more) I-41/94 and Mitchell Interchange can easily handle plenty of traffic.
I wish they would hold another PIM to give updates on what they plan on doing to the Interstate 794 Lake Interchange Study corridor: https://www.794lakeinterchange.wisconsindot.gov/. The last PIM was a year ago, with an e-blast from February: https://assets-global.website-files.com/647f3615434dca744e168f93/65c1159443da67dca6e2b765_794-lake-interchange-study_FEB-Eblast.pdf.
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 03, 2024, 11:02:09 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 02:59:31 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 02, 2024, 09:07:48 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMThis is probably gonna happen, but I really wish it wouldn't. What a shame.
Do you have first-hand knowledge of the area?
No, I don't. But it would be logical to extend it and build a tunnel under the airport and connect it to I 94. That could act as a very useful bypass if there's anything happening on I 94.
Definitely superfluous. Layton Ave, Howell Ave and College Ave, not to mention the rebuilt 8-lane (and more) I-41/94 and Mitchell Interchange can easily handle plenty of traffic.
At any rate, I don't see how this is going to do anything to transform this part of the city other than downgrading a road and making flowing traffic less efficient in the area. What do they expect from tearing out this highway?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 04:57:06 PMEven without my proposed extension, which, obviously in today's climate would never fly, What is tearing out this highway going to do? They're still gonna have to build a road. Looking on Google maps it goes through a pretty industrious area other than the mile or so that it slithers through downtown and it seems like there's other ways to reduce its impact on dividing the areas it goes through.
It also connects a big neighborhood south of downtown. So you're still going to have a lot of car traffic but now it'll be on a downgraded road. I don't see the good that it'll do.
The proposed teardown would only be for the short east-west portion between the Marquette Interchange and the lakefront. The Hoan Bridge and Lake Parkway are not going anywhere.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 05, 2024, 10:38:45 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 04:57:06 PMEven without my proposed extension, which, obviously in today's climate would never fly, What is tearing out this highway going to do? They're still gonna have to build a road. Looking on Google maps it goes through a pretty industrious area other than the mile or so that it slithers through downtown and it seems like there's other ways to reduce its impact on dividing the areas it goes through.
It also connects a big neighborhood south of downtown. So you're still going to have a lot of car traffic but now it'll be on a downgraded road. I don't see the good that it'll do.
The proposed teardown would only be for the short east-west portion between the Marquette Interchange and the lakefront. The Hoan Bridge and Lake Parkway are not going anywhere.
There have been proposals from the 'usual suspects' over the past couple of decades to narrow the Hoan Bridge by restriping it and even re-engineering it (now a lightly used, due to the 'system's incomplete nature, six lane freeway) as four lanes with even bicycle lanes or pathways. I have always considered those thoughts to be impractical.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on August 05, 2024, 11:48:43 AMQuote from: triplemultiplex on August 05, 2024, 10:38:45 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 04:57:06 PMEven without my proposed extension, which, obviously in today's climate would never fly, What is tearing out this highway going to do? They're still gonna have to build a road. Looking on Google maps it goes through a pretty industrious area other than the mile or so that it slithers through downtown and it seems like there's other ways to reduce its impact on dividing the areas it goes through.
It also connects a big neighborhood south of downtown. So you're still going to have a lot of car traffic but now it'll be on a downgraded road. I don't see the good that it'll do.
The proposed teardown would only be for the short east-west portion between the Marquette Interchange and the lakefront. The Hoan Bridge and Lake Parkway are not going anywhere.
There have been proposals from the 'usual suspects' over the past couple of decades to narrow the Hoan Bridge by restriping it and even re-engineering it (now a lightly used, due to the 'system's incomplete nature, six lane freeway) as four lanes with even bicycle lanes or pathways. I have always considered those thoughts to be impractical.
Mike
Yeah, there are much easier (and safer) ways to get from downtown to the Bayview neighborhood than taking the Hoan Bridge on a bike.
I still support retaining the freeway to tearing it down. As long as all existing left-hand exit and entrance ramps are replaced with ones on the right-hand side, that would be good enough for me.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMAt any rate, I don't see how this is going to do anything to transform this part of the city other than downgrading a road and making flowing traffic less efficient in the area. What do they expect from tearing out this highway?
Opening up land for developers to capitalize on with mixed-use developments?
Quote from: Alex on August 09, 2024, 08:42:25 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMAt any rate, I don't see how this is going to do anything to transform this part of the city other than downgrading a road and making flowing traffic less efficient in the area. What do they expect from tearing out this highway?
Opening up land for developers to capitalize on with mixed-use developments?
Did any development ever occur when the land was opened up from the Park East spur demolition?
Quote from: Big John on August 09, 2024, 08:56:10 AMQuote from: Alex on August 09, 2024, 08:42:25 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMAt any rate, I don't see how this is going to do anything to transform this part of the city other than downgrading a road and making flowing traffic less efficient in the area. What do they expect from tearing out this highway?
Opening up land for developers to capitalize on with mixed-use developments?
Did any development ever occur when the land was opened up from the Park East spur demolition?
Yes. It's where the Fiserv Forum and everything around it is now located. It look a long time for development to initially occur, mostly due to the restrictions that the County put on contractors.
But I have no doubt this will develop quickly.
Eventually, yes, the Park east ROW was mostly redeveloped. But due to needless restrictions that were placed on the land by the Milwaukee County Board, the process took many more years than it should have.
Mike
When it was initially torn down 20 years ago, the Park East corridor was on the edge of the "cool" part of downtown. So in addition to some bureaucratic red tape getting in the way, the market wasn't quite as primed to swoop in and build stuff.
The area of proposed removal of 794, by comparison, would be hot real estate. You'd see substantial development very soon after the cleared parcels went on the market.
Quote from: Alex on August 09, 2024, 08:42:25 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on August 02, 2024, 06:01:53 AMAt any rate, I don't see how this is going to do anything to transform this part of the city other than downgrading a road and making flowing traffic less efficient in the area. What do they expect from tearing out this highway?
Opening up land for developers to capitalize on with mixed-use developments?
So remove vital infrastructure to make room for more developments which would require said infrastructure? What's the replacement? Are they going to build a train?
Remove Interstate 794 to build more overpriced condos? No thanks.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 09, 2024, 07:47:01 PMRemove Interstate 794 to build more overpriced condos? No thanks.
I would be VERY happy with that. But that's not what I think is going to happen. It will be a boulevard with mixed use on either side. Much better than an ugly, elevated highway with limited purpose.
Need more housing anyway.
Residential in central city areas such as Milwaukee is hot with today's younger crowd. Traditional, post-WWII suburbanization is so 'last century' with them.
Mike
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on August 09, 2024, 03:04:55 PMSo remove vital infrastructure to make room for more developments which would require said infrastructure? What's the replacement? Are they going to build a train?
Nearly all the traffic on this segment has an origin/destination downtown. This is not primarily a thru route. So "vital" is kinda subjective here.
As I said in another thread:
Quote from: meI-794 west of the Lake Interchange is not a linchpin to the freeway system in Milwaukee. Having lived in the city during the Marquette Interchange reconstruction, I saw first hand how people adapted to long term closures. There was a long time there where 794 was inaccessible to/from I-43 and it was manageable.
It is curious the number of predicted 'carmageddons' that fail to materialize when an urban core freeway endures either a long term construction closure or an outright demolition.