Thankfully, didn't seem to be damaged, as they've reopened the bridge.
Wow. I just drove that bridge for the first time just a week ago.
..why is this becoming a trend?
Quote from: LilianaUwU on March 31, 2024, 06:22:42 AM..why is this becoming a trend?
It isn't. Barges hit bridges with some frequency, anyway. Bigger outlets are just reporting on them because of the topic du jour and everyone wants to get agitated over it.
Had flashbacks of 2002 reading that topic headline 🥺
Yeah, I immediately thought about the barge strike on the I-40 bridge at Webbers Falls in 2002. That was horrible. In the years since that bridge was re-built a series of concrete dolphins were installed in the river waters North and South of the bridge to help protect it from barge strikes. The US-59 bridge just past the Robert S Kerr Dam doesn't look like it has any bridge pier protections at all.
It's insane that there isn't at minimum dolphins at least the upstream side of the piers at the channel edge of every bridge on MKARNS. We're not talking about a huge number of them.
Yes, but the ODOT budget for northeast Oklahoma is twelve dollars and a Burger King coupon, so.
Elected officials need financial wiggle room in order to pander to voters with tax cut candy. Of course I think the candy dish is just about empty at this point, which explains them leaning more into culture war crap. Of course that does a good job of removing the welcome mat for many people and businesses wanting to relocate to a place where living costs aren't quite as extreme.
Looking at the USACE MKARNS 12Ft. Channel web app (https://usacelittlerock.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=cb51843e025d4b6b84adee64605760bc), as well as satellite on Google Maps, every single river crossing upstream of this bridge already has at a minimum a set of dolphins on the main piers at channel's edge on the upstream side, likely from the Webber's Falls incident, which was literally the next crossing upstream of US-59 on the upper end of Kerr Lake. Looking downstream, the next crossing is the KCS railroad crossing with dolphins on the upstream side of the channel piers, and the next crossing is the Garrison Ave. (US-64) bridge crossing into Ft. Smith, AR, also with upstream dolphins at channel's edge. US-59 is literally the only crossing in Oklahoma on the MKARNS that doesn't have protective dolphins on the upstream side. Since they are in the process of starting the NEPA for the 12Ft. dredging of the entire MKARNS, hopefully by 2030, perhaps that will be considered since they will have signficantly heavier barges with the 3ft. deeper drafts.
What's even scarier, is that in Arkansas, NONE of the interstate bridges that cross the MKARNS have dolphins, but all of the railroad and nearly all of the state and US highway crossings do, at least on the upstream side of the piers. I-540, I-430, I-30, and I-440 all have substantial traffic counts during daylight hours, much higher than I-40 at Webber's Falls. I shudder to think of the mass casualty event that would cause, even with barges loaded for the current 9ft. draft.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 04, 2024, 01:54:51 PMElected officials need financial wiggle room in order to pander to voters with tax cut candy. Of course I think the candy dish is just about empty at this point, which explains them leaning more into culture war crap. Of course that does a good job of removing the welcome mat for many people and businesses wanting to relocate to a place where living costs aren't quite as extreme.
You can't name a set of dolphins after a politician. That is why they aren't excited about them.
It's the same reasons universities don't name their bathrooms after donors. Dorms and other buildings...yes.
Quote from: edwaleni on April 09, 2024, 04:00:33 PMYou can't name a set of dolphins after a politician. That is why they aren't excited about them.
Well, you
could. Given that the Oklahoma legislature will name every snippet of road after some random person you've never heard of, I'm surprised nobody's tried it. (But then I don't know that there are even any dolphins in Oklahoma.)
Quote from: edwaleni on April 09, 2024, 04:00:33 PMQuote from: Bobby5280 on April 04, 2024, 01:54:51 PMElected officials need financial wiggle room in order to pander to voters with tax cut candy. Of course I think the candy dish is just about empty at this point, which explains them leaning more into culture war crap. Of course that does a good job of removing the welcome mat for many people and businesses wanting to relocate to a place where living costs aren't quite as extreme.
You can't name a set of dolphins after a politician. That is why they aren't excited about them.
It's the same reasons universities don't name their bathrooms after donors. Dorms and other buildings...yes.
I once saw a donor acknowledgment on the door of a bathroom in a church. AFATG, virtually every item in that building had a plaque.
Quote from: bwana39 on April 10, 2024, 11:53:16 PMQuote from: edwaleni on April 09, 2024, 04:00:33 PMQuote from: Bobby5280 on April 04, 2024, 01:54:51 PMElected officials need financial wiggle room in order to pander to voters with tax cut candy. Of course I think the candy dish is just about empty at this point, which explains them leaning more into culture war crap. Of course that does a good job of removing the welcome mat for many people and businesses wanting to relocate to a place where living costs aren't quite as extreme.
You can't name a set of dolphins after a politician. That is why they aren't excited about them.
It's the same reasons universities don't name their bathrooms after donors. Dorms and other buildings...yes.
I once saw a donor acknowledgment on the door of a bathroom in a church. AFATG, virtually every item in that building had a plaque.
Huh. Maybe they wouldn't have needed to fundraise as much if they didn't spend so much on plaques.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2024, 07:32:43 PMQuote from: edwaleni on April 09, 2024, 04:00:33 PMYou can't name a set of dolphins after a politician. That is why they aren't excited about them.
Well, you could. Given that the Oklahoma legislature will name every snippet of road after some random person you've never heard of, I'm surprised nobody's tried it. (But then I don't know that there are even any dolphins in Oklahoma.)
Doesn't the OKC zoo have one?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 11, 2024, 02:36:48 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2024, 07:32:43 PMQuote from: edwaleni on April 09, 2024, 04:00:33 PMYou can't name a set of dolphins after a politician. That is why they aren't excited about them.
Well, you could. Given that the Oklahoma legislature will name every snippet of road after some random person you've never heard of, I'm surprised nobody's tried it. (But then I don't know that there are even any dolphins in Oklahoma.)
Doesn't the OKC zoo have one?
Or the Jenks Aquarium?
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 11, 2024, 08:56:28 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on April 11, 2024, 02:36:48 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2024, 07:32:43 PMQuote from: edwaleni on April 09, 2024, 04:00:33 PMYou can't name a set of dolphins after a politician. That is why they aren't excited about them.
Well, you could. Given that the Oklahoma legislature will name every snippet of road after some random person you've never heard of, I'm surprised nobody's tried it. (But then I don't know that there are even any dolphins in Oklahoma.)
Doesn't the OKC zoo have one?
Or the Jenks Aquarium?
Jenks has sharks, not dolphins.
As weird as it may seem, and it is illegal to whale in Oklahoma. I'm not sure if that applies just in general because in the United States whaling is illegal.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 04, 2024, 01:54:51 PMElected officials need financial wiggle room in order to pander to voters with tax cut candy. Of course I think the candy dish is just about empty at this point, which explains them leaning more into culture war crap. Of course that does a good job of removing the welcome mat for many people and businesses wanting to relocate to a place where living costs aren't quite as extreme.
WTF??? OF all people Bobby5280, I thought you would remember the millions ODOT spent on downstream side dolphins after the Webbers Falls incident. I know the US62 bridge at Muskogee cost in the neighborhood of $6 million with ODOT ponying up the majority of the cost. The upstream side dolphins are original to the McClellan-Kerr Navigation system construction.
The fact remains the US-59 bridge over the Arkansas River that was recently struck by a barge didn't have any protective dolphins around the bridge piers. I'm not going to applaud ODOT for taking action to remedy a problem after a horrible disaster happens (like what happened on I-40 at Webbers Falls).
Now that ODOT knows it is possible for a barge to strike the US-59 bridge maybe they'll do something about it.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 17, 2024, 09:58:59 PMThe fact remains the US-59 bridge over the Arkansas River that was recently struck by a barge didn't have any protective dolphins around the bridge piers. I'm not going to applaud ODOT for taking action to remedy a problem after a horrible disaster happens (like what happened on I-40 at Webbers Falls).
Now that ODOT knows it is possible for a barge to strike the US-59 bridge maybe they'll do something about it.
They could charge a toll for any barge that strikes their new US-59 dolphins, then it would be an easier sell for the legislature. Just put some pinball bumper detection technology to know when it's hit and make it Plate Pay to the tow company after it takes a snap of the name of the towboat.
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 18, 2024, 10:48:42 AMQuote from: Bobby5280 on April 17, 2024, 09:58:59 PMThe fact remains the US-59 bridge over the Arkansas River that was recently struck by a barge didn't have any protective dolphins around the bridge piers. I'm not going to applaud ODOT for taking action to remedy a problem after a horrible disaster happens (like what happened on I-40 at Webbers Falls).
Now that ODOT knows it is possible for a barge to strike the US-59 bridge maybe they'll do something about it.
They could charge a toll for any barge that strikes their new US-59 dolphins, then it would be an easier sell for the legislature. Just put some pinball bumper detection technology to know when it's hit and make it Plate Pay to the tow company after it takes a snap of the name of the towboat.
If you're going to add pinball technology, why not just put a giant pair of flippers there?
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 18, 2024, 05:26:14 PMQuote from: MikieTimT on April 18, 2024, 10:48:42 AMQuote from: Bobby5280 on April 17, 2024, 09:58:59 PMThe fact remains the US-59 bridge over the Arkansas River that was recently struck by a barge didn't have any protective dolphins around the bridge piers. I'm not going to applaud ODOT for taking action to remedy a problem after a horrible disaster happens (like what happened on I-40 at Webbers Falls).
Now that ODOT knows it is possible for a barge to strike the US-59 bridge maybe they'll do something about it.
They could charge a toll for any barge that strikes their new US-59 dolphins, then it would be an easier sell for the legislature. Just put some pinball bumper detection technology to know when it's hit and make it Plate Pay to the tow company after it takes a snap of the name of the towboat.
If you're going to add pinball technology, why not just put a giant pair of flippers there?
And a catchment basin to store the tow until the tow company sends another towboat with a competent captain, completing the multi-ball scenario.
From the May 2024 minutes of the ODOT Commission meeting:
QuoteDirector's Report – Information Only
Director Gatz began his report, addressing the Francis Scott Key bridge in Baltimore and acknowledged
the tragedy behind this occurrence. Director Gatz discussed the Department's continued work on
Oklahoma's bridge infrastructure system and reminded the Commission of the 2002 I-40 bridge hit, over
the Arkansas River. At that time, Oklahoma had over a thousand structurally deficient bridges across the
State and with the Department's consistent efforts, Oklahoma has less than fifty structurally deficient
bridges. Director Gatz addressed the bridge impact on US-59 on March 30th and called on Justin
Hernandez, ODOT's State Bridge Engineer to brief the Commission on the impact. Mr. Hernandez
discussed the design of the US-59 bridge, over the Arkansas River, south of lock and dam 15 on the Kerr
Reservoir. The bridge was designed with the 2000 American Association of State Highway and
Transportation Officials (AASHTO) load-and resistance factor design (LRFD) bridge specifications for
vessel collision. Hernandez continued by stating the bridge is a three-column arrangement with a heavy
web wall to distribute load between all columns and if one column is hit, the load will be distributed, down
to the bedrock foundation. The foundations are twelve-foot diameter drilled shafts with steel encasement
and are nine and a half feet in diameter with a five by twenty two-foot-tall web wall between the columns.
So am I reading that right, that the vessel basically could have taken out the entire pier and the bridge would still be okay, because the load would be redistributed to the other piers?
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 10, 2024, 07:26:51 PMSo am I reading that right, that the vessel basically could have taken out the entire pier and the bridge would still be okay, because the load would be redistributed to the other piers?
There's only one way to find out...
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 10, 2024, 07:26:51 PMSo am I reading that right, that the vessel basically could have taken out the entire pier and the bridge would still be okay, because the load would be redistributed to the other piers?
My reading is the deck would still be standing and that is good, but that's far from stating the bridge would be okay.The pier would still need replaced and that's a year out of commission at least. But Grandpa's '65 stepside would stay out of the drink.
The headline is wrong. The US 59 bridge crosses the Arkansas River is about 1/2 mile downstream of the Robert S Kerr Lock and Dam which impounds Robert S. Kerr Reservoir. They named half the state after Kerr.