Pennies and nickels cost more than their face value to produce. In addition, many currencies (euro, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Israel) have the equivalent of $1 and $2 coins, while two (Japan and Switzerland) effectively have $5 coins. Here is my proposed reform, in detail:
1¢: Get rid of it entirely. Cash purchases are rounded to the nearest 5¢ after tax is calculated. If it's exactly halfway between multiples of 5¢ (e.g. $6.375 because it's $6 + 6.25% tax), round down. They don't need to be demonetized, but if Canada is any indication, people will stop using them pretty much immediately.
5¢: Stop making them. Unlike pennies, they might continue to see use even after production stops, but they'll eventually stop being used. This does make a coin (the quarter) not a multiple of the smallest coin (the dime), but any amount except 5¢ and 15¢ is possible. You can't really buy anything with 15¢ anyway. If your purchase comes out to x.05 or x.15, you can put down a quarter and get two dimes or one dime in change, or x.75 + three dimes or four dimes if you don't want change.
10¢: No change. Roosevelt has been on the dime since 1946, but there's no need to change this. At some point in the future, the material might need to be changed; either aluminum (like Japan's ¥1 coin) or steel (like Canada and the UK currently do) would work, but this would be for the future, not now.
25¢: No change. The quarter continues to be the denomination with a different design every year. When the dime changes materials in the future, so does the quarter. I decided not to replace the quarter with a 20¢ coin to avoid the "missing denomination" mentioned above because that just delays it by 20-30 years (when dimes get phased out, 50¢ not being a multiple of 20¢) rather than eliminating the problem entirely, plus I don't want to have a denomination actually worth something suddenly become worthless.
50¢: Instead of having a huge coin, it would be a moderately small gold-colored 7-sided coin with size between the UK's 20p and 50p coins (which are also 7-sided). Kennedy can remain on this coin. The edge is reeded. For those unfamiliar with non-round coins: they're called a Reuleaux polygon, and they have rounded corners. They have a constant diameter so that they can fit in vending machines in any orientation. The Canadian loonie is also an example, but it's not as noticeable as it has 11 sides.
$1: Keep the size and color, and make it much more used. Edge lettering will still be used. $1 and $2 bills will stop being made; the smallest bill will be $5 (although $1 and $2 bills will naturally die out as they wear out instead of being forcibly demonetized). The $1 coin currently gets a different design every year, but we don't really need this for both the quarter and the dollar. Lincoln and Jefferson aren't going away (unchanged $5 bill, $2 bill → $2 coin), nor is Washington (quarter), so we have an option for someone entirely new. Obama is still alive, so he's not available to put on a coin yet. (Yes, many people don't like him, but Kennedy was put on the half dollar only four years after many people voted against him.) Henry Clay, maybe? Ruth Bader Ginsburg?
$2: Bimetallic, being careful not to have the dimensions be the same as any of the common in-use bimetallic coins (Mexico's $1, $2, $5, $10, $20; 1€, 2€; £1, £2; C$2; 10 rupees; 10 rubles). Edge lettering like the dollar, but reeded along with the edge lettering (which helps distinguish from $1 and many foreign currencies). Jefferson was on the $2 bill, so he gets transferred to the $2 coin.
Banknotes: $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100 see no changes, except Andrew Jackson gets replaced and the $20 is made harder to counterfeit. No higher bills are introduced; there's a reason that some euro countries decided to stop making 200€ and 500€ banknotes after originally making them. Some countries have switched to plastic, but the disadvantage of that is that a very select few people are allergic to it, plus it would require all vending machines to update.
Vending machines would only need to change by accepting the new 50¢ and $2 coins.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 16, 2024, 11:06:33 AM....
1¢: Get rid of it entirely. Cash purchases are rounded to the nearest 5¢ after tax is calculated. If it's exactly halfway between multiples of 5¢ (e.g. $6.375 because it's $6 + 6.25% tax), round down. They don't need to be demonetized, but if Canada is any indication, people will stop using them pretty much immediately.
5¢: Stop making them. Unlike pennies, they might continue to see use even after production stops, but they'll eventually stop being used. This does make a coin (the quarter) not a multiple of the smallest coin (the dime), but any amount except 5¢ and 15¢ is possible. You can't really buy anything with 15¢ anyway. If your purchase comes out to x.05 or x.15, you can put down a quarter and get two dimes or one dime in change, or x.75 + three dimes or four dimes if you don't want change.
....
Rounding to the nearest 5¢ seems to conflict with the idea of abolishing the nickel because of the problems it would cause with giving change when someone does pay cash.
I agree with your entire proposal, except for the "don't make any more nickels." Mostly because this reasoning has never made sense to me.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 16, 2024, 11:06:33 AMPennies and nickels cost more than their face value to produce.
This doesn't mean they shouldn't be produced. If we need them for a currency system to operate as designed, the fact that it costs more than their face value isn't really relevant.
Maybe keep the nickel, but make it out of steel or aluminum instead?
Alternatively, if the nickel does stop being produced but people keep using the existing ones, the timing is about right that they'll be too damaged/worn for circulation at about the time where it would need to be phased out anyway.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 16, 2024, 12:31:10 PMMaybe keep the nickel, but make it out of steel or aluminum instead?
Canada phased in steel nickels (with nickel plating, and a little bit of copper) beginning in 1999.
Steel is attracted to magnets, which makes Canadian nickels just like all the other coins now that pennies are out of production. OTOH, U.S. vending machines, etc. reject magnetic Canadian coins.
First off in this interesting and VERY relevant discussion is to end inflation. It is simply a flat rate confiscatory tax on all cash-based assets that was not passed by any governing body. Spend and then 'print' money to cover it on any governing idea and that is inflation. individual states and lower units of government here in the USA don't have that power, that is ONLY the federal government/Congress. MANY other countries have also adopted the USA dollar as their own, either entirely or at least by common use, simply because not having that power is a very strong disciplinary restriction on governing. Argentina is the latest to make a move in that direction and the USA's government has a fiduciary responsibility to all of those foreign and domestic governments to maintain that stability. That is the principal behind a gold standard. In fact, the relationship between 'real' inflation and the market price of gold between the end of the gold standard in the USA in April of 1933 and now (100:1 to 120:1 for both) cannot be ignored.
That said, going on the assumption that inflation is brought under control in the next couple of years, I wold do these things with the supply of circulating coins and banknotes in the USA:
- Drop all coins below quarters. They are no longer useful for any sort of legitimate commerce, only fine parsing of sales taxes. Remember that a century ago, we had the same slate of coins, but that was befor the 100:1 or higher real inflation. the penny of 1924 is the $1 bill of 2024.
Today, quarters are only very barely useful for commerce. One of them will buy 15 minutes of time from a parking meter here in downtown Appleton, WI or 7 minutes of time from a dryer at a laundry that I usually use. a full sized glass of beer from a local bar is $5 or $6, compared with 5¢ in 1919 (before Prohibition).
- drop 50¢ coins, they are physically too big to be useful in commerce.
- drop $1, $2 and $5 banknotes, replacing them all with coins. Ramp up production of current size/composition $1 coins to replace $1 notes. $2 coins would be new in the USA, $5 coins would be a reintroduction.
- Introduce new $200 banknotes and reintroduce $500 banknotes.
as for designs on the coins, first and most importantly. I would make them as politically neutral as possible. Once the current quarter design program runs its course, I would go with the 1932 'Fraser' design on both sides (the current program uses only her obverse design). Since $2 would be a new to the USA denomination of coin, great latitude in design and compositions are possible, but I like the thought of matching any two of the three of a shield, allegorical image of 'Liberty' and an eagle on them. For $5, I would reuse the designs that were used on the $5 gold Half Eagles in the early 20th century (they were GREAT!). Also the same diameter, and about 1.5 times the thickness of the Half Eagles and the same materials that are used in the current $1 coins. Further, use numbers for the denominations on all cions.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on April 16, 2024, 01:55:55 PMFirst off in this interesting and VERY relevant discussion is to end inflation. It is simply a flat rate confiscatory tax on all cash-based assets that was not passed by any governing body. Spend and then 'print' money to cover it on any governing idea and that is inflation. individual states and lower units of government here in the USA don't have that power, that is ONLY the federal government/Congress. MANY other countries have also adopted the USA dollar as their own, either entirely or at least by common use, simply because not having that power is a very strong disciplinary restriction on governing. Argentina is the latest to make a move in that direction and the USA's government has a fiduciary responsibility to all of those foreign and domestic governments to maintain that stability. That is the principal behind a gold standard. In fact, the relationship between 'real' inflation and the market price of gold between the end of the gold standard in the USA in April of 1933 (100:1 to 120:1 for both) cannot be ignored.
That said, going on the assumption that inflation is brought under control in the next couple of years, I wold do these things with the supply of circulating coins and banknotes in the USA:
- Drop all coins below quarters. They are no longer useful for any sort of legitimate commerce, only fine parsing of sales taxes. Remember that a century ago, we had the same slate of coins, but that was befor the 100:1 or higher real inflation. the penny of 1924 is the $1 bill of 2024.
quarters are only very barely useful for commerce. One of them will buy 15 minutes of time from a parking meter here in downtown Appleton, WI or 7 minutes of time from a dryer at a laundry that I usually use. a full sized glass of beer from a local bar is $5 or $6 (compared with 5¢ in 1919 before Prohibition).
- drop 50¢ coins, they are physically too big t be useul in commerce.
- drop $1, $2 and $5 banknotes, replacing them all with coins. Ramp up production of current size/composition $1 coins to replace $1 notes. $2 coins would be new in the USA, $5 coins would be a reintroduction.
- Introduce new $200 banknotes and reintroduce $500 banknotes.
as for designs on the coins, first and most importantly. I would make them as politically neutral as possible. Once the current quarter design program runs its course, I would go with the 1932 'Fraser' design on both sides (the current program uses only her obverse design). Since $2 would be a new to the USA denomination of coin, great latitude in design and compositions are possible, but I like the thought of matching any two of the three of a shield, allegorical image of 'Liberty' and an eagle on them. For $5, I would reuse the designs that were used on the $5 gold Half Eagles in the early 20th century, same diameter and about 2.5 times the thickness on the Half Eagles and the same materials that are used on the current $1. Also Use numbers for the denominations.
Mike
On a grand scheme of things, electronic money transfer is the modern way to go. Cash may have some use cases, but a lot of it is due to messed up concept of credit card use. Which encourages overspending (and interest income to bank), high transaction fees - which are used to bribe consumer with cashbacks, and overall outdated US banking system and business approaches (going from NET30 to NET90? Are your messenger turtles becoming too old?).
Instead of applying bandaid to the problem, probably giants like Chase and Visa should be allowed to fail in the next round.
- "Swedish rounding" will never be adopted in the USA. And the main reason the fact that the penny costs whatever to produce and is worth only one cent is irrelevant is because the use of credit cards for every transaction is going to become more and more and more common. I'm old, and I don't use cash much, but everyone I know under 35 only carries, if any, an emergency twenty or fifty. They charge everything. As those people age and my generation goes away, cash is done for. I listen to the Tony Kornheiser podcast and a couple of weeks ago he was talking about going to CVS and the cashier was getting trained, and the seasoned employee was telling the rookie "Oh, he pays cash, so you need to give him back change, the brown ones are worth one cent..."
- 50c the problem with the 50 cent piece is that people, wrongly, think they are collectable, and they don't circulate. As long as the generation that includes the Cult of Kennedy is alive, that won't change, no matter the shape or size of the coin. Take him off if you want the coin to move.
- American Loonies and Twonies, I'm all for that, but we discussed in a different thread the political power that keeps the paper being made in his district, so its not happening. It should, it is how Canada, UK, Euro, etc. do it.
- Who is on what, is political. So I will pass. I don't know what you have against Jackson, and I think that any change of currency faces would blow up one side or another. If they ever do change, I expect they will go with allegorical figures.
- The world has pretty much agreed that no bills worth more than about US$100 should exist. Crime fighting, supposedly. Of course, there will come a day, with inflation currently in explosion mode, when $100 is so small as to be impractical as the largest bill, but that is some time from now.
Quote from: mgk920 on April 16, 2024, 01:55:55 PM- drop 50¢ coins, they are physically too big to be useful in commerce.
I suggested a size reduction in my OP rather than eliminating them entirely. The idea is "dollar coin color but smaller".
Quote from: mgk920 on April 16, 2024, 01:55:55 PMFurther, use numbers for the denominations.
Absolutely agreed. I forgot to mention this.
Quote from: SP Cook on April 16, 2024, 02:14:02 PM- American Loonies and Twonies, I'm all for that, but we discussed in a different thread the political power that keeps the paper being made in his district, so its not happening. It should, it is how Canada, UK, Euro, etc. do it.
I think the company that produces the $1 bills would be fine with $1 being a coin and ramping up production of $2 bills to be used in everyday transactions, but of course, this is only halfway to what I suggested above.
Quote from: kalvado on April 16, 2024, 02:05:33 PMOn a grand scheme of things, electronic money transfer is the modern way to go. Cash may have some use cases, but a lot of it is due to messed up concept of credit card use. Which encourages overspending (and interest income to bank), high transaction fees - which are used to bribe consumer with cashbacks, and overall outdated US banking system and business approaches (going from NET30 to NET90? Are your messenger turtles becoming too old?).
Instead of applying bandaid to the problem, probably giants like Chase and Visa should be allowed to fail in the next round.
A sizable number of locals here are (legal) immigrants from places where a serious level of distrust of banks is in their culture, so for them, coins and banknotes are a fact of life. Also, then the power goes out or the system goes down either from a natural cause or worse.
Mike
Quote from: SP Cook on April 16, 2024, 02:14:02 PM- 50c the problem with the 50 cent piece is that people, wrongly, think they are collectable, and they don't circulate. As long as the generation that includes the Cult of Kennedy is alive, that won't change, no matter the shape or size of the coin. Take him off if you want the coin to move.
...
- The world has pretty much agreed that no bills worth more than about US$100 should exist. Crime fighting, supposedly. Of course, there will come a day, with inflation currently in explosion mode, when $100 is so small as to be impractical as the largest bill, but that is some time from now.
There are about 6 quarters and 9 dimes per person in US minted in 2016 (just found data for that year). There is about 1 half-dollar per 100 people minted same year.
Yes, $100 and 200 euro ($212 right now) - 500 euro is no longer being printed.
Quote from: mgk920 on April 16, 2024, 02:28:36 PMA sizable number of locals here are (legal) immigrants from places where a serious level of distrust of banks is in their culture, so for them, coins and banknotes are a fact of life. Also, then the power goes out or the system goes down either from a natural cause or worse.
When the power is off, so are many ways of spending money. If there are ways of sending money via phone interface (think Venmo), power requirement is significantly lower. And if you're talking civilization collapse, cash may have limited value anyway.
Psychological barriers to banking, though, are understandable. Moreso with... what's the latest politically correct wording for illegal immigrants?
Reducing entry threshold for bank use may be part of the deal...
I think people would be surprised at how much cash is still used by a significant portion of our society. I doubt that's changing much anytime soon.
Quote from: kalvado on April 16, 2024, 04:07:32 PMThere are about 6 quarters and 9 dimes per person in US minted in 2016 (just found data for that year). There is about 1 half-dollar per 100 people minted same year.
For 2023, half-dollars minting went up
Rough per-person numbers:
15 pennies (down from 20 in 2022)
5 nickels, 9 dimes and quarter each - small changes
1 half-dollar per 5 people (up from 1 per 25 people in 2022)
1 dollar coin per 150 people (small change, but who cares)
Just revalue our current currency to where 1 penny now equals $1.
Quote from: Rothman on April 16, 2024, 04:41:58 PMJust revalue our current currency to where 1 penny now equals $1.
I would make out like a bandit, with all the bronze (1981 and earlier, and some 1982) pennies I'm holding, for their copper value, which is nowhere near $1. There are really serious penny hoarders out there, who would reap enormous profits.
Quote from: oscar on April 16, 2024, 04:55:35 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 16, 2024, 04:41:58 PMJust revalue our current currency to where 1 penny now equals $1.
I would make out like a bandit, with all the bronze (1981 and earlier, and some 1982) pennies I'm holding, for their copper value, which is nowhere near $1. There are really serious penny hoarders out there, who would reap enormous profits.
Of course, what costs $1 now would then cost $100... :D
Quote from: oscar on April 16, 2024, 04:55:35 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 16, 2024, 04:41:58 PMJust revalue our current currency to where 1 penny now equals $1.
I would make out like a bandit, with all the bronze (1981 and earlier, and some 1982) pennies I'm holding, for their copper value, which is nowhere near $1. There are really serious penny hoarders out there, who would reap enormous profits.
Yea, the bronze cents now about 2.84¢ each in 'melt' (market metal) value and the newer 'Zincolns' are now 0.74¢ each (source - usacoinbook(dot)cam ). I'm still a bit surprised at how many 'bronzies' I'm still getting in change. Neither cents nor nickles can possibly be made at a profit by the USA.
Mike
Quote from: SP Cook on April 16, 2024, 02:14:02 PM- 50c the problem with the 50 cent piece is that people, wrongly, think they are collectable, and they don't circulate. As long as the generation that includes the Cult of Kennedy is alive, that won't change, no matter the shape or size of the coin. Take him off if you want the coin to move.
There's a lot more to it than that—businesses don't ask for them in their change orders so people never get them to begin with, and because businesses don't ask for them banks don't either, so businesses can't even stock them if they want to. Also, if you wanted to have a separate pocket for every denomination of coin available, you would need six pockets in the cashier drawer, whereas the most I've ever seen is five (and some even have only four!) That fifth pocket can be used as a combination $1/50¢ pocket since circulation is so low, but if both of them started to circulate again it would get awkward really quickly.
50¢ coins do circulate in some specific applications, such as casinos. Payout on a $5 blackjack is $7.50. In the casinos I've worked at in Oklahoma, that would be one red ($5), two whites ($1), and a yellow chip (50¢). But casino chips cost over $1 each to have manufactured, so some casinos have figured out it's much cheaper to just use 50¢ coins rather than chips. (You never need more than one 50¢ chip at a time, and the ease of counting large piece counts is the main reason chips are used rather than cash.)
I think some of you overthink this in the day of electronic transfers. I agree that at least the pennies and dollar bills should be dropped. The 1/2 dollar coin is of no particular worth. The coin is too large for the primary usages of coins today (vending machine and change back).
The 1/2 dollar was the first 20th century US coin that clearly had a value higher than its face value. The silver content used to be high enough that they were collectable for their metallurgical value. That has not been the case for over 50 years. People still collect them as opposed to spend them.
I think we should promote use of dollar coins. I think we have enough other denominations. I am unsure of the utility of the $2.00 bill. It doesn't really circulate because it does not fit in standard cash drawers. Perhaps it would do better if the $1.00 bills were gone.
$200 and $500 bills just add nothing to it. The $100. is not circulated very heavily except in gray and black market transactions and vanity use. By vanity use, I mean people whip out a $100 to look or feel important. The $50. should have wider usage than it does. It may fall victim of prohibitions of bills larger than a $20 in many (currently decreasing) retail locations.
The penny and dollar bill should be gone. The 50 cent piece as it is has little use. The jury is out on the nickel and dime.
I think people would adapt quite quickly to rounding cash transactions to the nearest 5 cents, so the penny should go away. And getting rid of the penny opens up a spot for $1 coins in cash tills.
A few people might wait for the total price to come up and decide whether to use cash or card. "$23.42. If I pay cash I'll save 2 cents because it will round down." That's not going to be in most people's thoughts.
I'm not so sure about rounding to the nearest dime. Part of the problem is that 1, 2, 3 and 4 cents go down; 6, 7, 8 and 9 cents round up. What about 5? Yes, I know there's a standard method for rounding 5; I'm just not sure people will accept it all the time. And bias will sneak into peoples' memories. "They round it up more often than they round it down." That's less likely when rounding to the nearest nickel.
I also don't see much value in the 50 cent piece. They mostly aren't used now; putting out 2 quarters instead of a half dollar isn't a big deal.
Quote from: GaryV on April 17, 2024, 08:57:38 AMI'm not so sure about rounding to the nearest dime. Part of the problem is that 1, 2, 3 and 4 cents go down; 6, 7, 8 and 9 cents round up. What about 5? Yes, I know there's a standard method for rounding 5; I'm just not sure people will accept it all the time. And bias will sneak into peoples' memories. "They round it up more often than they round it down." That's less likely when rounding to the nearest nickel.
New Zealand rounds to the nearest 10 cents, and 5 goes down.
Quote from: GaryV on April 17, 2024, 08:57:38 AMI think people would adapt quite quickly to rounding cash transactions to the nearest 5 cents, so the penny should go away. And getting rid of the penny opens up a spot for $1 coins in cash tills.
A few people might wait for the total price to come up and decide whether to use cash or card. "$23.42. If I pay cash I'll save 2 cents because it will round down." That's not going to be in most people's thoughts.
I'm not so sure about rounding to the nearest dime. Part of the problem is that 1, 2, 3 and 4 cents go down; 6, 7, 8 and 9 cents round up. What about 5? Yes, I know there's a standard method for rounding 5; I'm just not sure people will accept it all the time. And bias will sneak into peoples' memories. "They round it up more often than they round it down." That's less likely when rounding to the nearest nickel.
I also don't see much value in the 50 cent piece. They mostly aren't used now; putting out 2 quarters instead of a half dollar isn't a big deal.
Wouldn't every transaction be rounded to the nearest nickel regardless if its on a card or with cash?
Anyway, get rid of the penny. Get rid of the $1 bill and only use a $1 coin. That's really all that is needed.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 17, 2024, 09:15:42 AMWouldn't every transaction be rounded to the nearest nickel regardless if its on a card or with cash?
Canada currently only does so with cash. I don't know about other countries.
Any ideas for the design of the $1 coin? I mentioned above that we don't need both quarters and dollars changing every year, and removing $1 bills doesn't remove a person (Washington is still on the quarter), so we have a free slot to put someone new. mgk920 said they should all be neutral rather than people, but nobody else has chimed in on this.
10-25-100 coin lineup without a nickel creates problems at the bottom of the scale, where 5 cents isn't used - but then 25s can only be used in pairs. 1-2-5 type of lineup makes more sense, but changing the existing quarter is too much to ask.
My proposal is simpler:
Coins: 5c, 25c, $1
Bills: $2, $5, $20, $100
In the 1930s, half dollars were more common in everyday circulation than were quarters. They did not truly fall out of favor in everyday use until the mid 1960s when coins were debased under the LBJ administration. as for halves, IMHO, they would still be in common use today if their composition was made the dame as were dimes and quarters starting with their 1965 dated production.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on April 17, 2024, 11:29:12 AMIn the 1930s, half dollars were more common in everyday circulation than were quarters. They did not truly fall out of favor in everyday use until the mid 1960s when coins were debased under the LBJ administration. as for halves, IMHO, they would still be in common use today if their composition was made the dame as were dimes and quarters starting with their 1965 dated production.
Mike
But dimes, quarters and halves ARE the same alloy, and same unit weight of $20/pound.
Quote from: kalvado on April 17, 2024, 11:44:01 AMQuote from: mgk920 on April 17, 2024, 11:29:12 AMIn the 1930s, half dollars were more common in everyday circulation than were quarters. They did not truly fall out of favor in everyday use until the mid 1960s when coins were debased under the LBJ administration. as for halves, IMHO, they would still be in common use today if their composition was made the dame as were dimes and quarters starting with their 1965 dated production.
Mike
But dimes, quarters and halves ARE the same alloy, and same unit weight of $20/pound.
mgk is referring to half dollars being silver for six years after dimes and quarters switching away from silver.
From 1965 to 1970, half dollars were 40% silver, while dimes and quarters contained no silver. People stopped using half dollars in these six years.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 17, 2024, 11:57:23 AMQuote from: kalvado on April 17, 2024, 11:44:01 AMQuote from: mgk920 on April 17, 2024, 11:29:12 AMIn the 1930s, half dollars were more common in everyday circulation than were quarters. They did not truly fall out of favor in everyday use until the mid 1960s when coins were debased under the LBJ administration. as for halves, IMHO, they would still be in common use today if their composition was made the dame as were dimes and quarters starting with their 1965 dated production.
Mike
But dimes, quarters and halves ARE the same alloy, and same unit weight of $20/pound.
mgk is referring to half dollars being silver for six years after dimes and quarters switching away from silver.
From 1965 to 1970, half dollars were 40% silver, while dimes and quarters contained no silver. People stopped using half dollars in these six years.
From everything I've read, this is exactly the issue. Even with the reduced silver content during those years, speculators still hoarded half dollars because of the possibility that the silver would make them more valuable, and some people also hoarded them because the Kennedy assassination was such a raw memory at the time. By the time the Mint changed the coin's composition (which presumably required an amendment to 31 USC 5112, the statute governing coin denomination, size, and composition), people had become used to functioning without half dollars and they never returned to widespread usage. Vending machines' non-acceptance of them no doubt compounded that issue (although some change machines accepted them).
Jukeboxes commonly used them after mid-1970 (single song plays were 25¢, 3/50¢, at the time and had gone up from 10¢ each a couple of years earlier).
Mike
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 17, 2024, 10:54:18 AMMy proposal is simpler:
Coins: 5c, 25c, $1
Bills: $2, $5, $20, $100
I'm starting to think some of you haven't actually worked with cash before. 95¢ being three quarters and four nickels would be an unmitigated pain in the ass. Remember, rolls contain either 40 or 50 pieces; if you get rid of the dime that means you could blow through a whole roll of nickels in ten transactions. (Meaning you have to close the window while you get another roll of nickels from somewhere. Meaning customers start being a dick to you.)
The days where we ran out of dimes at work were always miserable.
Simply put, changing something that's been normal practice for centuries wouldn't garner much American popular support, nor even substantial Congressional support.
Round to the nearest quarter. 13s and 63s round down. 38s and 88s round up (notice: all "tied" rounds end at even dollars or half dollars, intentionally). Part of me thinks the nearest half-dollar, but the prevalence of the current quarter over the 50cent piece keeps me glued to the quarter. The penny, nickle, and dime had their run. Make it legal to scrap them immediately if one so chooses or as deposited to banks they go away after whatever lenght transition period is approved
Coins: Quarter. Dollar. 2Dollar.
Bills: 5, 10, 20, 50, 100
I'd almost rather see a $25 bill and make the $20 go away, but I don't think enough is gained to make that change worth it
Quote from: epzik8 on April 17, 2024, 08:34:17 PMSimply put, changing something that's been normal practice for centuries wouldn't garner much American popular support, nor even substantial Congressional support.
Few things people basically agree with:
- penny isn't worth enough
- $1 bills don't last too long as their value is down and they go back and forth a lot.
Those could be acted upon, actually Canada survives with $1 and $2 coins but without a penny just fine.
Everything else is "if it's not broken..."
Quote from: kalvado on April 17, 2024, 08:48:55 PMQuote from: epzik8 on April 17, 2024, 08:34:17 PMSimply put, changing something that's been normal practice for centuries wouldn't garner much American popular support, nor even substantial Congressional support.
Few things people basically agree with:
- penny isn't worth enough
- $1 bills don't last too long as their value is down and they go back and forth a lot.
Those could be acted upon, actually Canada survives with $1 and $2 coins but without a penny just fine.
Everything else is "if it's not broken..."
And realistically, if we just get rid of the penny and dollar bill, we've eliminated the biggest waste in the currency system.
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2024, 08:46:29 PMRound to the nearest quarter. 13s and 63s round down. 38s and 88s round up (notice: all "tied" rounds end at even dollars or half dollars, intentionally). Part of me thinks the nearest half-dollar, but the prevalence of the current quarter over the 50cent piece keeps me glued to the quarter. The penny, nickle, and dime had their run. Make it legal to scrap them immediately if one so chooses or as deposited to banks they go away after whatever lenght transition period is approved
Coins: Quarter. Dollar. 2Dollar.
Bills: 5, 10, 20, 50, 100
I'd almost rather see a $25 bill and make the $20 go away, but I don't think enough is gained to make that change worth it
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2024, 08:46:29 PMRound to the nearest quarter. 13s and 63s round down. 38s and 88s round up (notice: all "tied" rounds end at even dollars or half dollars, intentionally). Part of me thinks the nearest half-dollar, but the prevalence of the current quarter over the 50cent piece keeps me glued to the quarter. The penny, nickle, and dime had their run. Make it legal to scrap them immediately if one so chooses or as deposited to banks they go away after whatever lenght transition period is approved
Coins: Quarter. Dollar. 2Dollar.
Bills: 5, 10, 20, 50, 100
I'd almost rather see a $25 bill and make the $20 go away, but I don't think enough is gained to make that change worth it
I like that slate, except that I would use $5 coins instead of banknotes (modern versions of the really old 'half eagles'). OTOH, a denomination of '25' of anything was the real oddball, making finer parsing much harder. Many other places have found the '1-2-5' progressions much easier and more efficient, too. BTW, over a century ago, the USA also had a gold 'quarter eagle' ($2.50 coin).
Mike
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2024, 08:46:29 PMRound to the nearest quarter. 13s and 63s round down. 38s and 88s round up (notice: all "tied" rounds end at even dollars or half dollars, intentionally).
I don't know if that makes sense, if only because there are no ties when rounding an integer cent to the nearest quarter dollar. 12, 37, 62, and 87 cents should all round down, and 13, 38, 63, and 88 cents should all round up.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 20, 2024, 01:06:22 AMQuote from: ilpt4u on April 17, 2024, 08:46:29 PMRound to the nearest quarter. 13s and 63s round down. 38s and 88s round up (notice: all "tied" rounds end at even dollars or half dollars, intentionally).
I don't know if that makes sense, if only because there are no ties when rounding an integer cent to the nearest quarter dollar. 12, 37, 62, and 87 cents should all round down, and 13, 38, 63, and 88 cents should all round up.
When I am working at my food delivery job, when a customer wants the 'odd' coins (below $1) back, I'll just round the change UP to the next even 25¢. My total loss on that has been less than 10¢/month on average for the past several years. (I know, how do I even manage to survive???)
Mike
Am I the first one to mention the colour of US bills? The fact that they're all green drives me nuts, it makes it harder to differentiate them, especially when they're in your wallet. Every other currency I know of uses different colour bills.
They're different colors, starting about 20 years ago. It's just that the colors are muted rather than bright.
Yeah, the colors are readily apparent when you have bills of different denomination next to each other. Can't say I've ever gotten them confused. ($1s and $2s are the "same color"—black and white, not green—but the layout of the $2 is different enough that it's obvious it's a different denomination in practice.)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/USDnotesNew.png/551px-USDnotesNew.png)
Quote from: mgk920 on April 16, 2024, 05:15:45 PMQuote from: oscar on April 16, 2024, 04:55:35 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 16, 2024, 04:41:58 PMJust revalue our current currency to where 1 penny now equals $1.
I would make out like a bandit, with all the bronze (1981 and earlier, and some 1982) pennies I'm holding, for their copper value, which is nowhere near $1. There are really serious penny hoarders out there, who would reap enormous profits.
Yea, the bronze cents now about 2.84¢ each in 'melt' (market metal) value and the newer 'Zincolns' are now 0.74¢ each (source - usacoinbook(dot)cam ). I'm still a bit surprised at how many 'bronzies' I'm still getting in change. Neither cents nor nickles can possibly be made at a profit by the USA.
Mike
If I had a penny every time I've heard this...
Specie is not a scratch-off lottery ticket to be used once and then discarded. More than 99% of all circulating coinage winds up reused multiple times. Besides, commerce and inflation guarantees it gets used multiple times.
Sure, there's a few collectors, hoarders, and lost change but that's an iota of circulation.
The problem is that if a 1¢ coin has more than 1¢ in materials in it, it starts to become profitable to harvest the materials from the coin rather than circulate it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 07:39:34 AMThe problem is that if a 1¢ coin has more than 1¢ in materials in it, it starts to become profitable to harvest the materials from the coin rather than circulate it.
Which is against the law. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/333)
Quote from: formulanone on April 22, 2024, 08:13:25 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 07:39:34 AMThe problem is that if a 1¢ coin has more than 1¢ in materials in it, it starts to become profitable to harvest the materials from the coin rather than circulate it.
Which is against the law. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/333)
Yes, and we all know that because murder is against the law, nobody ever gets murdered...
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 08:24:57 AMQuote from: formulanone on April 22, 2024, 08:13:25 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 07:39:34 AMThe problem is that if a 1¢ coin has more than 1¢ in materials in it, it starts to become profitable to harvest the materials from the coin rather than circulate it.
Which is against the law. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/333)
Yes, and we all know that because murder is against the law, nobody ever gets murdered...
...but if we dare not use our turn signals, it's death to the infidels.
Nobody is going to bother melting down tiny amounts of coinage, and obviously the "system" still works. Though I do agree the penny could disappear and I wouldn't care, there's lots of reasons why it seems politically unpopular. There's enough out there to never mint another penny again, and let it slowly disappear from circulation. Convincing the masses they deserve less money just never seems to be much of a political platform; besides, we'd dump the cost of one cent pieces into another form of currency and magically there'd be nothing left over.
politics ≠ logic, anyhow
Something tells me the cost of getting the materials out of pennies would be more than it's worth.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 03:58:54 AMYeah, the colors are readily apparent when you have bills of different denomination next to each other. Can't say I've ever gotten them confused. ($1s and $2s are the "same color"—black and white, not green—but the layout of the $2 is different enough that it's obvious it's a different denomination in practice.)
....
I thought the same was largely true of the style of bills with which most of us grew up. There were various visual cues aside from the numerals. For example, the elaborate scrollwork along the top was unique to the $20 compared to any of the other banknotes in that series. I still feel like that style of $20 was perhaps the most "elegant," for lack of a better word, of any US banknote issued during my lifetime.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/US-Series-1995-%2420-Obverse.jpg)
The $50 was laid out similarly to the $2 in terms of having "The United States of America" on the bottom, but the numeral "50" appearing in those circles was unique among the set of seven banknotes.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/%2450_Dollar_Bill_Series_1969C_Front.jpg/1920px-%2450_Dollar_Bill_Series_1969C_Front.jpg)
It was the mid-1990s series of "large portrait" notes that seemed to confound some people. As I've noted elsewhere, I recall multiple times when I encountered cashiers who mistook the $50 of this style for the $20. Obviously there were visual distinctions, but I'd say they were a lot more subtle in many ways compared to the previous styles seen above ("20" was shaded, the words "Twenty Dollars" were positioned differently from the words "Fifty Dollars," the $20 had a different little border around the white space). I very much prefer the current series to these. (The blue band on the current $100 bill, seen above in Scott5114's post with images of the current series, is a further unique identifying feature for that one.)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/US_%2420_Series_1996_Obverse.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/US_%2450_Series_1996_Obverse.jpg)
To me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2024, 10:15:00 AMTo me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
Heh, I also thought about saying that but, for once in my life, I decided it was more snarky than I felt like being at the moment.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 22, 2024, 10:16:59 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2024, 10:15:00 AMTo me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
Heh, I also thought about saying that but, for once in my life, I decided it was more snarky than I felt like being at the moment.
Also, the various bills contained the presence of varying Presidata.
The green is used because it is the toughest color match in printing, it is an anti-counterfeiting thing.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on April 22, 2024, 11:47:47 AMThe green is used because it is the toughest color match in printing, it is an anti-counterfeiting thing.
Mike
It makes some sense, but technology moved a bit further since then. On one hand, colorimetry has improved. On the other hand things like plastic notes with transparent windows and longer service life, multicolor high resolution features, metal encrusting - that all makes bills harder to reproduce. Keeping traditional look is fully understandable, but not the only way to go.
Not that US doesn't use those - $10 and 20 have some metallic-looking print in the corner (sorry, no larger bills on me right now). But they don't catch the eye at a first glance.
Who really wants their currency to look like Monopoly money?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2024, 10:15:00 AMTo me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
Doesn't really help much when you've got a strap of 99 $20s with one $5 stuck in it somewhere.
Quote from: GaryV on April 22, 2024, 03:15:33 PMWho really wants their currency to look like Monopoly money?
What, you mean having the same design on all of the denominations, with the only change being the numbers printed on it? To me that's the hallmark of Monopoly money, rather than the colors—just about every currency has colors these days.
The currency trend that I don't like is printing the designs in portrait orientation. I get that the idea is that most of the time when you hand money over to someone, you do it in portrait orientation...but I don't care, money is landscape, dang it.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2024, 10:15:00 AMTo me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
A bit of redundancy can be good, though, especially with respect to something as easy and inexpensive to implement as color.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 07:25:34 PMThe currency trend that I don't like is printing the designs in portrait orientation. I get that the idea is that most of the time when you hand money over to someone, you do it in portrait orientation...but I don't care, money is landscape, dang it.
Following those lines, a currency trend that I would like would be if the bills were different sizes. Back in the day, increasing denominations of French francs had longer bills but with the same width, which I would prefer over the current euros, which get longer and wider since the 5 euro bill is too small and the 200 is too big.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 22, 2024, 08:32:30 PMFollowing those lines, a currency trend that I would like would be if the bills were different sizes. Back in the day, increasing denominations of French francs had longer bills but with the same width, which I would prefer over the current euros, which get longer and wider since the 5 euro bill is too small and the 200 is too big.
Yes, the US is basically the only major currency that has all the bills the same size. And the main reason for that is MEI (the subsidiary of Mars—yeah, the candy bar company—that makes bill acceptors) has good lobbyists. They don't want to have to reflash their devices with new software that can handle bills of different sizes.
Advocates for the blind took the US government to court saying that US currency discriminates against the blind by not including any sort of tactile means of differentiating bills. They won and the court ordered the government to address the issue. That was in 2008, which gives you a pretty good idea of exactly what a circuit court of appeals ruling is actually worth in this country.
Quote from: kalvado on April 22, 2024, 12:14:14 PM...
Not that US doesn't use those - $10 and 20 have some metallic-looking print in the corner (sorry, no larger bills on me right now). But they don't catch the eye at a first glance.
I just took a look in my wallet. The $100 has a sort of copper- or brass-like finish on the "100" in the lower right corner and on the Liberty Bell that appears to Franklin's right. (The color changes as I tilt the bill and the light hits it in different ways.) The big "100" on the back side has a less metallic look, and the blue thread on the front has a 3-D visual effect with small "100" figures throughout.
I don't have any current-style $50s, $10s, or $5s at the moment, so I can't comment on those because I've never paid much attention to that particular aspect.
The blue star and red torch on the $50 and $10 respectively both use the metallic ink, and the number in the lower-right corner of the obverse changes from copper to green when tilted, as the numbers on the lower-right of the $100 and $20 do. (On the 1996-style N-type bills, this was green to black. However, the maker of this ink limits sells each color pair to only one country at a time, and the one North Korea got was similar enough to the green-black that it is theorized they were using it to counterfeit US notes. So we changed to green-copper with the 2004 series.)
The $5 has no color-changing or metallic ink because it's such a low denomination. And the ink on the back of the $100 isn't metallic; that's just plain mustard-yellow ink that's printed in a pattern that suggests a metallic appearance.
Some fun anti-counterfeiting features of the current series you may not know about: the portraits of Franklin and Grant on the $100 and $50 incorporate tiny writing in them (look at their shirt collars).
Also, the vertical strip that appears when you hold the bill up to the light glows under a blacklight, with different colors for different denominations (pink for $100s, yellow for $50s, green for $20s, orange for $10s, blue for $5s). The blacklight was my go-to counterfeit detection method when I worked the cash cage; most counterfeiters don't even know that strip changes colors, much less are able to replicate it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2024, 07:25:34 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 22, 2024, 10:15:00 AMTo me, the biggest visual cue about the old-style money was that different bills had different numbers on them indicating their value. :awesomeface:
Doesn't really help much when you've got a strap of 99 $20s with one $5 stuck in it somewhere.
So you got 99 $20s but a $20 ain't one?
Quote from: GaryV on April 22, 2024, 03:15:33 PMWho really wants their currency to look like Monopoly money?
When we were stationed in Germany in the mid-60s, I read an article in Stars and Stripes one morning about a bank in Sweden that had exchanged Monopoly Money for Swedish Krona!
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2024, 12:00:47 AMThe blue star and red torch on the $50 and $10 respectively both use the metallic ink, and the number in the lower-right corner of the obverse changes from copper to green when tilted, as the numbers on the lower-right of the $100 and $20 do. (On the 1996-style N-type bills, this was green to black. However, the maker of this ink limits sells each color pair to only one country at a time, and the one North Korea got was similar enough to the green-black that it is theorized they were using it to counterfeit US notes. So we changed to green-copper with the 2004 series.)
The $5 has no color-changing or metallic ink because it's such a low denomination. And the ink on the back of the $100 isn't metallic; that's just plain mustard-yellow ink that's printed in a pattern that suggests a metallic appearance.
In fact, the latest redesign of the $5 was mainly to increase the security of the previous design $100, this do to bad guys 'bleaching' the paper from previous design $5s to print up fake C-notes, the watermarks were so similar.
Mike
My thoughts:
- Eliminate all coins. Prices are rounded up or down to the nearest dollar
- Transition the Federal Reserve Notes to colored plastic with Braille for denominations
- Increase production of the $2 bill to match that of the $1 bill.
- Remove "In God We Trust" from all bills and replace it with, "Liberty and Justice for All."
- Have the following denominations:
1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 50, 100,
- Feature different portraits on the obverse side of each bill, including historical and modern Americans:
- 1, George Washington, Martin Luther King, Jr., Orville and Wilbur Wright
- 2, Thomas Jefferson, Barack Obama, Sitting Bull
- 5, Abraham Lincoln, Sandra Day O'Connor, Muhammad Ali
- 10, Alexander Hamilton, Harriett Tubman, Jackie Robinson
- 20, Andrew Jackson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Susan B. Anthony
- 50, Ulysses S. Grant, Mark Twain, Sojourner Truth
- 100, Benjamin Franklin, Elvis Presley, Henry David Thoreau
- And, on the reverse side, the same idea for monuments and historic/famous landmarks. The $1 will no longer have the Great Seal and the Illuminati pyramid.
- 1, Washington Monument, The 1903 Flight at Kitty Hawk, Yellowstone National Park
- 2, Signing of the Declaration of Independence, Gettysburg Address, Jefferson Memorial
- 5, Lincoln Memorial, Supreme Court, Niagra Falls,
- 10, The Treasury, Statue of Liberty, Gateway Arch, Signing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act
- 20, The White House, Pike's Peak, Golden Gate Bridge, One World Trade Center
- 50, US Capitol, The Grand Canyon, Completion of the Transcontinental Railroad
- 100, Independence Hall, the HOLLYWOOD Sign, Denali, Seattle Space Needle
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on April 23, 2024, 01:18:38 PMMy thoughts:
- Eliminate all coins. Prices are rounded up or down to the nearest dollar
- Transition the Federal Reserve Notes to colored plastic with Braille for denominations
- Increase production of the $2 bill to match that of the $1 bill.
- Remove "In God We Trust" from all bills and replace it with, "Liberty and Justice for All."
- Have the following denominations:
1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 50, 100,
- Feature different portraits on the obverse side of each bill, including historical and modern Americans:
- 1, George Washington, Martin Luther King, Jr., Orville and Wilbur Wright
- 2, Thomas Jefferson, Barack Obama, Sitting Bull
- 5, Abraham Lincoln, Sandra Day O'Connor, Muhammad Ali
- 10, Alexander Hamilton, Harriett Tubman, Jackie Robinson
- 20, Andrew Jackson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Susan B. Anthony
- 50, Ulysses S. Grant, Mark Twain, Sojourner Truth
- 100, Benjamin Franklin, Elvis Presley, Henry David Thoreau
- And, on the reverse side, the same idea for monuments and historic/famous landmarks. The $1 will no longer have the Great Seal and the Illuminati pyramid.
- 1, Washington Monument, The 1903 Flight at Kitty Hawk, Yellowstone National Park
- 2, Signing of the Declaration of Independence, Gettysburg Address, Jefferson Memorial
- 5, Lincoln Memorial, Supreme Court, Niagra Falls,
- 10, The Treasury, Statue of Liberty, Gateway Arch, Signing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act
- 20, The White House, Pike's Peak, Golden Gate Bridge, One World Trade Center
- 50, US Capitol, The Grand Canyon, Completion of the Transcontinental Railroad
- 100, Independence Hall, the HOLLYWOOD Sign, Denali, Seattle Space Needle
You are stopping half way
- Eliminate all coins and bills smaller than $100. Transactions are rounded up to the nearest $100 if done in cash
- No more change needed!
Quote from: kalvado on April 23, 2024, 02:18:20 PMQuote from: RobbieL2415 on April 23, 2024, 01:18:38 PMMy thoughts:
- Eliminate all coins. Prices are rounded up or down to the nearest dollar
- Transition the Federal Reserve Notes to colored plastic with Braille for denominations
- Increase production of the $2 bill to match that of the $1 bill.
- Remove "In God We Trust" from all bills and replace it with, "Liberty and Justice for All."
- Have the following denominations:
1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 50, 100,
- Feature different portraits on the obverse side of each bill, including historical and modern Americans:
- 1, George Washington, Martin Luther King, Jr., Orville and Wilbur Wright
- 2, Thomas Jefferson, Barack Obama, Sitting Bull
- 5, Abraham Lincoln, Sandra Day O'Connor, Muhammad Ali
- 10, Alexander Hamilton, Harriett Tubman, Jackie Robinson
- 20, Andrew Jackson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Susan B. Anthony
- 50, Ulysses S. Grant, Mark Twain, Sojourner Truth
- 100, Benjamin Franklin, Elvis Presley, Henry David Thoreau
- And, on the reverse side, the same idea for monuments and historic/famous landmarks. The $1 will no longer have the Great Seal and the Illuminati pyramid.
- 1, Washington Monument, The 1903 Flight at Kitty Hawk, Yellowstone National Park
- 2, Signing of the Declaration of Independence, Gettysburg Address, Jefferson Memorial
- 5, Lincoln Memorial, Supreme Court, Niagra Falls,
- 10, The Treasury, Statue of Liberty, Gateway Arch, Signing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act
- 20, The White House, Pike's Peak, Golden Gate Bridge, One World Trade Center
- 50, US Capitol, The Grand Canyon, Completion of the Transcontinental Railroad
- 100, Independence Hall, the HOLLYWOOD Sign, Denali, Seattle Space Needle
You are stopping half way
- Eliminate all coins and bills smaller than $100. Transactions are rounded up to the nearest $100 if done in cash
- No more change needed!
$100 bills
3 cent pieces
(that's it)
Disadvantages:Can never make perfect change will frustrate perfectionists and the poor
Nobody will be happy, we're all in this misery forever
Advantages:No ability to make perfect change is a barometer of how nice/mean of a transaction's participants
Three is the Magic Number
Simplicity in tills
People can go around with money bags and feel rich
Nobody will be happy, we're all in this misery forever
Do away with the dollar bill and a U.S."loonie" will fly. That's the only change I would recommend, having handled British and Euro money in the past. The U.S. twice rolled out dollar coins and they flopped mightily.
Quote from: Road Hog on April 26, 2024, 02:32:28 AMDo away with the dollar bill and a U.S."loonie" will fly. That's the only change I would recommend, having handled British and Euro money in the past. The U.S. twice rolled out dollar coins and they flopped mightily.
I count more than 2 times, unless you are bundling.
Morgan dollar (silver)
Peace Dollar
Eisenhower dollar'
Susan B Anthony dollar
Sacagawea dollar
Presidental series
a few in-betweens, hard to document.
The silver dollars (Morgan and Peace) circulated. Currency existed, though not sure if it was that prevalent at the time.
Currency took over during the 36-year gap between dollar coin issuance, which also saw the elimination of precious metal (silver) from the coin. I have to believe that this gap doomed the relevance of a dollar coin (especially one that large) while a dollar bill circulated.
Even with the smaller coin, dollar bills still rule -- who wants a pile of dollar coins in their pocket? I see dollar coins mainly at train/subway stations. As long as dollar bills are still made, no dollar coin of any type will circulate widely. Any that are made now, Native American or American Innovation, are for collectors (not for circulation). And . . . the U.S. Mint still makes money making money.
Canada and Europe seem to do well without 1 and 2 dollar/euro bills.
Quote from: akotchi on April 26, 2024, 10:02:55 AMThe silver dollars (Morgan and Peace) circulated. Currency existed, though not sure if it was that prevalent at the time.
Currency took over during the 36-year gap between dollar coin issuance, which also saw the elimination of precious metal (silver) from the coin. I have to believe that this gap doomed the relevance of a dollar coin (especially one that large) while a dollar bill circulated.
Even with the smaller coin, dollar bills still rule -- who wants a pile of dollar coins in their pocket? I see dollar coins mainly at train/subway stations. As long as dollar bills are still made, no dollar coin of any type will circulate widely. Any that are made now, Native American or American Innovation, are for collectors (not for circulation). And . . . the U.S. Mint still makes money making money.
Canada and Europe seem to do well without 1 and 2 dollar/euro bills.
It's been a while since I used cash as a primary payment method... but back then coins were flowing both ways for me, and I would be OK with pretty large nomination coins as long as they were not too heavy. Carrying coins, except for a stray coin or two, isn't really a thing for me any more. Most wallets are cards-and-bills these days anyway.
Today, coins are mostly tossed into the bowl - and recently I dumped $120 worth of change into a change machine. If there were dollar coins in that mix... I would likely be less comfortable with parking that much money on a shelf, but what would that mean in reality? More frequent bank visits or less cash overall?
I am not sure what I would do if I got $1-2-3 into that bowl instead of 25-50 cents each time I buy coffee for cash.
Quote from: kalvado on April 26, 2024, 12:53:14 PMQuote from: akotchi on April 26, 2024, 10:02:55 AMThe silver dollars (Morgan and Peace) circulated. Currency existed, though not sure if it was that prevalent at the time.
Currency took over during the 36-year gap between dollar coin issuance, which also saw the elimination of precious metal (silver) from the coin. I have to believe that this gap doomed the relevance of a dollar coin (especially one that large) while a dollar bill circulated.
Even with the smaller coin, dollar bills still rule -- who wants a pile of dollar coins in their pocket? I see dollar coins mainly at train/subway stations. As long as dollar bills are still made, no dollar coin of any type will circulate widely. Any that are made now, Native American or American Innovation, are for collectors (not for circulation). And . . . the U.S. Mint still makes money making money.
Canada and Europe seem to do well without 1 and 2 dollar/euro bills.
It's been a while since I used cash as a primary payment method... but back then coins were flowing both ways for me, and I would be OK with pretty large nomination coins as long as they were not too heavy. Carrying coins, except for a stray coin or two, isn't really a thing for me any more. Most wallets are cards-and-bills these days anyway.
Today, coins are mostly tossed into the bowl - and recently I dumped $120 worth of change into a change machine. If there were dollar coins in that mix... I would likely be less comfortable with parking that much money on a shelf, but what would that mean in reality? More frequent bank visits or less cash overall?
I am not sure what I would do if I got $1-2-3 into that bowl instead of 25-50 cents each time I buy coffee for cash.
That is the full visible effect of inflation (100:1 to 120:1 between 1924 and now). A century ago, nearly all everyday commerce was in coins ONLY. Carrying a single $1 banknote around then was like carrying at least a C-note now. And yet, in the 1920s, we normally used coins of 1¢, 5¢, 10¢, 25¢ and 50¢. a half dollar would buy a decent restaurant meal for the entire family.
Mike
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on April 26, 2024, 01:48:41 PMA century ago, nearly all everyday commerce was in coins ONLY. Carrying a single $1 banknote around then was like carrying at least a C-note now. And yet, in the 1920s, we normally used coins of 1¢, 5¢, 10¢, 25¢ and 50¢. a half dollar would buy a decent restaurant meal for the entire family.
Mike
Mike
Probably the most important missing piece for me.
And then you are basically saying that rounding things to the nearest $1 would be an equivalent of ol'good times? Makes at least some sense...
Bumping an old thread because apparently the president tweeted during the Super Bowl that he has ordered the Treasury to stop producing pennies because they cost more to make than they're worth.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 09, 2025, 10:52:00 PMBumping an old thread because apparently the president tweeted during the Super Bowl that he has ordered the Treasury to stop producing pennies because they cost more to make than they're worth.
Finally, a good fucking idea from this doofus.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 09, 2025, 10:52:00 PMBumping an old thread because apparently the president tweeted during the Super Bowl that he has ordered the Treasury to stop producing pennies because they cost more to make than they're worth.
...Can he actually do that by executive order?
EDIT: One of the lawyers can correct me here if I'm wrong, but it seems like he can—31 U.S. Code § 5112 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5112) states that while the Mint
may make pennies, it doesn't seem to
require them to.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on February 09, 2025, 11:07:56 PMFinally, a good fucking idea from this doofus.
You say that, but it makes no cents.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 12:57:42 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on February 09, 2025, 10:52:00 PMBumping an old thread because apparently the president tweeted during the Super Bowl that he has ordered the Treasury to stop producing pennies because they cost more to make than they're worth.
...Can he actually do that by executive order?
Quote from: LilianaUwU on February 09, 2025, 11:07:56 PMFinally, a good fucking idea from this doofus.
You say that, but it makes no cents.
Nickels also cost more than 'face' value to make and distribute. I would eliminate them, too, along with dimes. All three are only useful for allowing the fine parsing of state and local sales taxes. To accommodate that, have the states set their sales tax rate cards to round the tax for cash transaction up or down to the nearest 25¢ instead of the nearest 1¢.
Quarters are now just barely useful for any kind of legitimate commerce (one will buy a whole 15 minutes from a downtown Appleton, WI parking meter.
One complicating item here is that even through the Treasury Department is under the control of POTUS, coins (denominations, sizes, designs and compositions) are currently under the control of Congress.
< sigh . . . >
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 01:33:59 AMAll three are only useful for allowing the fine parsing of state and local sales taxes.
Also paying out slot machine winnings. Nevada's a swing state. Just sayin'.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 01:42:44 AMQuote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 01:33:59 AMAll three are only useful for allowing the fine parsing of state and local sales taxes.
Also paying out slot machine winnings. Nevada's a swing state. Just sayin'.
Las Vegas, NV, slot machines still use coins?
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 01:52:18 AMLas Vegas, NV, slot machines still use coins?
No. The machine runs a credit balance, and when you hit the cash out button you get a voucher with whatever your balance on the machine was. Then you take that to a different machine (or a human cashier) to exchange it for cash.
The thing is, though, the vast majority of slot machines these days use 1¢ credits, since it's a lot easier for people to see 2000 credits as $20.00 (as opposed to, say, 80 credits = $20.00 on a quarter machine—the number of people who flipped out at me because they put a $20 in a quarter machine and "it only credited 80¢" was higher than you'd think). Which means that the payouts are in multiples of 1¢...so you get lots of vouchers at the cage with amounts like $16.74 and $9.89. Which requires pennies to pay out.
Rounding in this situation is a no go because that affects the casino's payout percentage (theoretically it should work out in the end, but nobody wants to risk it falling outside of the bounds of regulatory approval). I've seen a few casinos try and finesse this by asking patrons to donate the coins to a charity (often one related to problem gaming), with mixed results.
It will be interesting to see if the Nevada Gaming Commission makes any changes as a result of this.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 02:09:13 AMQuote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 01:52:18 AMLas Vegas, NV, slot machines still use coins?
No. The machine runs a credit balance, and when you hit the cash out button you get a voucher with whatever your balance on the machine was. Then you take that to a different machine (or a human cashier) to exchange it for cash.
The thing is, though, the vast majority of slot machines these days use 1¢ credits, since it's a lot easier for people to see 2000 credits as $20.00 (as opposed to, say, 80 credits = $20.00 on a quarter machine—the number of people who flipped out at me because they put a $20 in a quarter machine and "it only credited 80¢" was higher than you'd think). Which means that the payouts are in multiples of 1¢...so you get lots of vouchers at the cage with amounts like $16.74 and $9.89. Which requires pennies to pay out.
Rounding in this situation is a no go because that affects the casino's payout percentage (theoretically it should work out in the end, but nobody wants to risk it falling outside of the bounds of regulatory approval). I've seen a few casinos try and finesse this by asking patrons to donate the coins to a charity (often one related to problem gaming), with mixed results.
It will be interesting to see if the Nevada Gaming Commission makes any changes as a result of this.
Round the bash settlements *UP or DOWN* to the nearest quarter, the 'breakage' error will total out to zero over time. 'Plastic' settlements would be unaffected.
Do Japanese casinos pay out in yen and sen?
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 02:16:20 AMRound the bash settlements *UP or DOWN* to the nearest quarter, the 'breakage' error will total out to zero over time.
Yes, but if the Gaming Control Board happens to audit you and your hold percentage is out of balance because the error has so far been in the house's favor and it hasn't evened out yet, are they going to accept "that's just rounding error" as an answer? Until they say that's fine, I wouldn't want to risk being the first property to find out...
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 02:16:20 AMDo Japanese casinos pay out in yen and sen?
Japanese casinos, I shit you not, pay out in stuffed animals. Or cigarettes. Or other such trinkets.
Then there happens to be a store next door, operated by totally different people, that just so happens to buy stuffed animals or cigarettes or trinkets.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 12:57:42 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on February 09, 2025, 10:52:00 PMBumping an old thread because apparently the president tweeted during the Super Bowl that he has ordered the Treasury to stop producing pennies because they cost more to make than they're worth.
...Can he actually do that by executive order?
EDIT: One of the lawyers can correct me here if I'm wrong, but it seems like he can—31 U.S. Code § 5112 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5112) states that while the Mint may make pennies, it doesn't seem to require them to.
While I have not researched the question, I think you're probably right based on a practical consideration:
For some time now, the Mint has not produced From 2002 through 2020, the Mint did not produce half dollars for standard circulation (as opposed to for proof sets or the like), and from 1982 to 1998 the Mint did not produce dollar coins after the Susan B. Anthony coin flopped (they produced some of those again in 1999 when the USPS needed them for vending machines and the Sacagawea coins weren't going to be ready). During all that time, the Mint had the authority to make the Anthony dollars but simply chose not to because they weren't needed. Based on those two practical decisions not to make coins they're allowed to make, I assume the president can order the Mint not to produce pennies.
(Small factual edit based on my own faulty memory. New text is underlined, old text is struck out. Doesn't change my conclusion.)
I am all for getting rid of the penny, and for every transaction to be rounded to the nearest nickel, but not because they cost more to produce than their value. That is an illogical reasoning.
Over their lifetime, a coin is going to be used in hundreds of transactions. The value of those transactions will greatly exceed the cost to mint the coin.
Anyway, the only way a dollar coin succeeds is if they stop printing dollar bills. I'm all for that too.
I'd favor dropping the 1 and 5 cent coins and introducing $1 and $2 coins. And dropping or greatly restricting printing new $1 and $2 bills.
Another thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?
I went on a penny rant last night to my wife two hours before Pres. Trump announced his plans. I had just been reading about how Australia got rid of their one-cent coins over 30 years ago.
I'd like to round all transactions to the nearest 10 cents.
Get rid of the penny and the nickel, and convert the quarter to a half dollar, so we only have dimes and half dollars. I like the idea of a dollar coin too, but, well, cost.
Keep the penny and bring back the half cent.
I don't see the dollar coin making much of an impact here, mainly because it hasn't been a consistent part of our commerce habits for almost a century. It seems to hold some meaning as a commemorative piece, but little else. Frankly, we could just get by on the 5 and 25 cent coins, and abolish the rest except for collectors; we also wouldn't have to reconfigure millions of registers and vending machines. Even then, most proof and uncirculated sets in the last few decades have had limited collector's appeal, mostly stagnant resale values for the clad sets, so the demand isn't what it used to be.
I think more people are loathe to carry coins as the years go by; our society tends to value smaller and lighter objects in our "everyday carry". That's why so many people want to remove the one cent piece / penny in the first place. Substituting it for dollar coins when the fifty cent piece has been effectively out of sight for two generations seems like another foolish waste. Paper currency has a shorter lifespan but folds up easier...yeah, they both tend to get lost. Sure, carrying a few $5 pieces might be easy for a trip to the store, but then you get your change back and you're back to an undesirable amount of coinage as change.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 02:20:02 AMQuote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 02:16:20 AMDo Japanese casinos pay out in yen and sen?
Japanese casinos, I shit you not, pay out in stuffed animals. Or cigarettes. Or other such trinkets.
Then there happens to be a store next door, operated by totally different people, that just so happens to buy stuffed animals or cigarettes or trinkets.
This is reminiscent of, when in developing countries, if the seller doesn't have the smallest change available, often you get a candy or a loosie in its stead.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 12:57:42 AMCan he actually do that by executive order?
He's done a whole lot of things by executive order. So he'll try, and then rant when some judge tells him he can't do it.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 01:33:59 AMOne complicating item here is that even through the Treasury Department is under the control of POTUS, coins (denominations, sizes, designs and compositions) are currently under the control of Congress.
Again, this guy will simply do what he wants and wait until a court overturns him.
Sorry if that's too political.
The thing that would probably require Congress to get involved would be if there were going to be a rule about rounding transactions to the nearest nickel. On the other hand, nothing prevents businesses from just adjusting their prices—you don't need an act of Congress to charge an even $20.00 instead of $19.99 or whatever.
Apparently the Treasury says it costs 3.7¢ to produce one penny. I saw a statistic saying that in 2024 they minted 3,225,200,000 pennies. That works out to an expense of $119,332,400. Hardly chump change, though perhaps a rounding error when it comes to the federal budget.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 12:15:03 PMyou don't need an act of Congress to charge an even $20.00 instead of $19.99 or whatever.
But depending on the tax it will screw up the system (6% in my area - so it would be $21.19 or $21.20). And the more items you buy, the more likely that the tax will come out to a non-even number of cents.
Quote from: GaryV on February 10, 2025, 12:21:02 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 12:15:03 PMyou don't need an act of Congress to charge an even $20.00 instead of $19.99 or whatever.
But depending on the tax it will screw up the system (6% in my area - so it would be $21.19 or $21.20). And the more items you buy, the more likely that the tax will come out to a non-even number of cents.
Good point. I didn't think about that. Perhaps the better way to do it would be to stop quoting prices pre-tax. Do it like at most sports venue concession stands where the price you see includes the tax. Figure a way that the price plus the tax comes out to a multiple of five cents.
Interestingly, CNN reports that it costs 13.8¢ to mint one nickel because of the alloy used—75% copper and 25% nickel (pennies are 97% zinc). In 2023, the Mint produced 1,427,500,000 nickels. That works out to a cost of $196,995,000 to produce coins worth $71,375,000. That's kind of striking.
How much do you want to bet that all the people who were screaming that you can't get rid of the penny because they don't want to be forced to pay more on cash transactions that would round up (never mind that we've been rounding mills since forever, even with credit cards) will now forget they ever said that and claim that this is a great way to reduce spending and improve efficiency?
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 02:20:02 AMJapanese casinos, I shit you not, pay out in stuffed animals. Or cigarettes. Or other such trinkets.
Then there happens to be a store next door, operated by totally different people, that just so happens to buy stuffed animals or cigarettes or trinkets.
Reminds me of the "laundromat" in Young Sheldon. I guess Connie's problem was doing the prize and the buy-back at the same place.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 12:25:55 PMQuote from: GaryV on February 10, 2025, 12:21:02 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 12:15:03 PMyou don't need an act of Congress to charge an even $20.00 instead of $19.99 or whatever.
But depending on the tax it will screw up the system (6% in my area - so it would be $21.19 or $21.20). And the more items you buy, the more likely that the tax will come out to a non-even number of cents.
Good point. I didn't think about that. Perhaps the better way to do it would be to stop quoting prices pre-tax. Do it like at most sports venue concession stands where the price you see includes the tax. Figure a way that the price plus the tax comes out to a multiple of five cents.
Interestingly, CNN reports that it costs 13.8¢ to mint one nickel because of the alloy used—75% copper and 25% nickel (pennies are 97% zinc). In 2023, the Mint produced 1,427,500,000 nickels. That works out to a cost of $196,995,000 to produce coins worth $71,375,000. That's kind of striking.
I would cut the penny and nickel as well as the dollar and two dollar bill (if they are still actively printing the latter). Would increase the pressing of half dollars, dollar coins (as a paper bill replacement) and introduce two dollar coins. Those coins would last a whole lot longer than paper, and these days you almost need to have $5, $10, and $20 rather than $1 to make an actual purchase for something, other than small stuff and tips. So you really wouldn't have to put many of those coins in your pocket.
I was reading more news stories about the coinage while eating lunch. Using the figures of 3.7¢ to make one penny and 13.8¢ to make one nickel, in 2023 the US government lost almost a quarter of a billion dollars ($247,735,600) making those two types of coins.
I think the main use I have for $1 bills these days is tipping at the barbershop. I always carry $5s when I travel to use when tipping hotel housekeeping and the attendants in the first-class car on the Acela.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 01:38:40 PMI was reading more news stories about the coinage while eating lunch. Using the figures of 3.7¢ to make one penny and 13.8¢ to make one nickel, in 2023 the US government lost almost a quarter of a billion dollars ($247,735,600) making those two types of coins.
I think the main use I have for $1 bills these days is tipping at the barbershop. I always carry $5s when I travel to use when tipping hotel housekeeping and the attendants in the first-class car on the Acela.
I don't keep anything below $10 in my wallet anymore "too much bulk, not enough buying power". I would also love to have higher value coins ($1, $2 at least) for my regular trips to the coin laundry (a great place to get your money cleaned!). Pumping nearly a half roll of quarters, one at a time, into a washing machine to do one load is VERY BEYOND ANNOYING! I also never run anything that would need a $5 coin, but other customers do.
Mike
Mike
I'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.
People still need coins for laundry machines?
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 02:43:13 PMPeople still need coins for laundry machines?
I a in zero mood to enrich the credit card companies!
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 02:30:42 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 01:38:40 PMI was reading more news stories about the coinage while eating lunch. Using the figures of 3.7¢ to make one penny and 13.8¢ to make one nickel, in 2023 the US government lost almost a quarter of a billion dollars ($247,735,600) making those two types of coins.
I think the main use I have for $1 bills these days is tipping at the barbershop. I always carry $5s when I travel to use when tipping hotel housekeeping and the attendants in the first-class car on the Acela.
I don't keep anything below $10 in my wallet anymore "too much bulk, not enough buying power". I would also love to have higher value coins ($1, $2 at least) for my regular trips to the coin laundry (a great place to get your money cleaned!). Pumping nearly a half roll of quarters, one at a time, into a washing machine to do one load is VERY BEYOND ANNOYING! I also never run anything that would need a $5 coin, but other customers do.
Mike
Mike
I seldom use a laundromat because we have machines at home, but I had to use one last year when our dryer's heating element failed and had to be replaced. The laundromat I went to has machines that don't take coins the way they did 30 years ago when I was a student. Instead, there's a card vending machine. You use cash or a credit/debit card to buy, and load, the card and then you swipe that card at the individual washers and dryers (the card is reloadable). The pay machine looks kind of like the change machines most of us grew up seeing in arcades or the like.
Even 30 years ago, I recall the machines' coin slots were configured so that you loaded up however many quarters next to each other and pushed the thing in, rather than pumping in coin after coin like you would at a Coke machine.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 02:51:30 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 02:43:13 PMPeople still need coins for laundry machines?
I a in zero mood to enrich the credit card companies!
Mike
People need credit cards to pay for laundry?
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 01:38:40 PMI was reading more news stories about the coinage while eating lunch. Using the figures of 3.7¢ to make one penny and 13.8¢ to make one nickel, in 2023 the US government lost almost a quarter of a billion dollars ($247,735,600) making those two types of coins.
<sigh>
No they didn't. This is a completely illogical way to look at coinage.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 01:38:40 PMin 2023 the US government lost almost a quarter of a billion dollars ($247,735,600) making those two types of coins
They may have spent that much money, but they didn't lose it. It's not like the mint is selling coins to the general public, or to banks either.
OK. Would you prefer I said they wasted almost a quarter-billion?
One man's wasted funds are another man's well-spent funds. It all depends on your outlook.
I agree, pennies are worthless to have and carry around, and nickels nearly so. But if they didn't spend the money on making those coins and switched to dollar and 2-dollar coins, they'd probably spend just as much or more. Or if we just take over Canada then we can have all their Loonies and Twonies. For free.
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 02:57:32 PMQuote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 02:51:30 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 02:43:13 PMPeople still need coins for laundry machines?
I a in zero mood to enrich the credit card companies!
Mike
People need credit cards to pay for laundry?
The coin laundry that I usually use has 'plastic' acceptors on all of their machines.
:-o
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 03:13:13 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 02:57:32 PMQuote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 02:51:30 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 02:43:13 PMPeople still need coins for laundry machines?
I a in zero mood to enrich the credit card companies!
Mike
People need credit cards to pay for laundry?
The coin laundry that I usually use has 'plastic' acceptors on all of their machines.
:-o
Mike
Hm. I've seen paycards that you load cash onto.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 01:33:59 AMNickels also cost more than 'face' value to make and distribute. I would eliminate them, too, along with dimes.
Nickels are almost as bad as pennies, too, relative to their production cost.
penny = 3.7 cents to produce = 73% value lost
nickel = 13.8 cents to produce = 64% value lost
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2025, 02:35:05 PMI'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.
I agree that there a lot of pennies out there, but how do you convince lots of people to empty their pennies jars, roll them, and take them to the bank so they can go back into circulation?
Quote from: kkt on February 10, 2025, 03:57:25 PMQuote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2025, 02:35:05 PMI'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.
I agree that there a lot of pennies out there, but how do you convince lots of people to empty their pennies jars, roll them, and take them to the bank so they can go back into circulation?
Not having to roll them would go a long way.
I've never rolled coins to take them back to the bank If your bank requires that, then I'm sorry.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 02:51:30 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 02:43:13 PMPeople still need coins for laundry machines?
I a in zero mood to enrich the credit card companies!
Mike
Enrich Whirlpool and buy one instead. :) (Or a used one off Craigslist.)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 04:11:51 PMEnrich Whirlpool
When Carrie and I were first married, we moved to Herrin, Illinois. Our house was three blocks from what was, at that time, one of only three Maytag factories in the country that were unionized. While we lived there, Whirlpool acquired Maytag and then promptly closed all three of the union factories. For a town of 12k people, that was a huge blow. Shortly thereafter, it became common to see those little 'Calvin' characters in pickup truck rear windows peeing on the Whirlpool logo. I haven't been to Herrin in 17 years, but I still have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about Whirlpool.
Quote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 04:28:31 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 04:11:51 PMEnrich Whirlpool
When Carrie and I were first married, we moved to Herrin, Illinois. Our house was three blocks from what was, at that time, one of only three Maytag factories in the country that were unionized. While we lived there, Whirlpool acquired Maytag and then promptly closed all three of the union factories. For a town of 12k people, that was a huge blow. Shortly thereafter, it became common to see those little 'Calvin' characters in pickup truck rear windows peeing on the Whirlpool logo. I haven't been to Herrin in 17 years, but I still have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about Whirlpool.
I knew when I picked a random brand that I risked someone having a specific example of why not to enrich said company. :) For the record, I own a Samsung.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 09:24:04 AMAnother thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?
The Mint itself, maybe?
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2025, 02:35:05 PMI'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.
The problem is if you say "We're not making any more X denomination"—or even if they
think you said that—people just hoard those rather than spend them.
Like with $2 bills. When most people get a $2 bill they will not spend it, because they think they're rare and therefore valuable and therefore they must hang onto it forever. They don't print as many of them as the other denominations, but they
are still printed; the last run was in 2019. They just don't circulate because people think they're rare.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 05:16:20 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 09:24:04 AMAnother thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?
The Mint itself, maybe?
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2025, 02:35:05 PMI'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.
The problem is if you say "We're not making any more X denomination"—or even if they think you said that—people just hoard those rather than spend them.
Like with $2 bills. When most people get a $2 bill they will not spend it, because they think they're rare and therefore valuable and therefore they must hang onto it forever. They don't print as many of them as the other denominations, but they are still printed; the last run was in 2019. They just don't circulate because people think they're rare.
Deuces are very much sill in current production.
Mike
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 05:16:20 PMThe problem is if you say "We're not making any more X denomination"—or even if they think you said that—people just hoard those rather than spend them.
Ah yes, these folks will be up $47 after 5 years of hoarding and I'll just eventually die penniless. :bigass:
I don't see the problem. Cut off the penny circulation and merge it over to nickels over the next ten years and have the banks stop accepting them. I've met a few penny hoarders over the years, they've always been around...
That said, I think I have a drawer with about $8-10 of one cent pieces that I should part with but keep forgetting.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 05:16:20 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 09:24:04 AMAnother thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?
The Mint itself, maybe?
Quote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2025, 02:35:05 PMI'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.
The problem is if you say "We're not making any more X denomination"—or even if they think you said that—people just hoard those rather than spend them.
Like with $2 bills. When most people get a $2 bill they will not spend it, because they think they're rare and therefore valuable and therefore they must hang onto it forever. They don't print as many of them as the other denominations, but they are still printed; the last run was in 2019. They just don't circulate because people think they're rare.
People holding currency on hand is generally beneficial for mint/government.
$2 bill can be seen as "we made a 20 cent souvenir, sold it for $2, we'll keep the profit. When and if they choose to cash it out, that bill would be effectively cheaper than when we sold it". Same with state quarters people keep.
100 piece roll of 1 cents is "we made a $3.75 souvenir, sold it for $1, and loose yet another $0.02 every time it goes through the bank"
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 05:16:20 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 09:24:04 AMAnother thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?
The Mint itself, maybe?
The mint is a federal agency. It can't sue the head of the executive branch.
Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2025, 05:56:29 PM100 piece roll of 1 cents
Rolls have either 40 or 50 pieces in them (pennies and dimes have 50, nickels and quarters have 40). A roll with 100 pieces would probably break under its own weight (and be inconveniently long).
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 06:59:55 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 10, 2025, 05:56:29 PM100 piece roll of 1 cents
Rolls have either 40 or 50 pieces in them (pennies and dimes have 50, nickels and quarters have 40). A roll with 100 pieces would probably break under its own weight (and be inconveniently long).
But that allows typing without fractions...
Quote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 05:37:41 PMDeuces are very much sill in current production.
pooing is cool
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 06:59:55 PMwould probably break under its own weight (and be inconveniently long)
pooing is cool
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 10, 2025, 09:24:04 AMAnother thought on the coinage issue: Some people are screaming and yelling that the president has no authority to do this (I think they're wrong). But who would have standing to bring a lawsuit challenging it?
The Constitution gives Congress authority to set standards for our currency, and as a practical matter the Federal Reserve actually commissions the production of coins subject to the Congressionally-set standards.
Aside from appointing the governors to the Federal Reserve, I'm uncertain how much authority the President can constitutionally wield over the Federal Reserve. The President doesn't have the authority to order the Federal Reserve to change the fed funds rate, but that constraint might not extend to ordering coins from the Mint.
Congress and the Federal Reserve would have standing to sue to block an unlawful order. Folks who supply the raw material to the Mint could, I suppose, also sue to recover damages from harm arising from unlawful orders or broken contracts. Whether those parties would do so is a discussion that would touch on topics I believe are not welcome here.
Independent of my opinion on such topics... it's long past time for the US penny to be retired, and the nickel to either be retired or reformulated.
Hm. Wonder how that commissioning of coinage actually works. Isn't The Mint's production at least somewhat driven by private banks' demand? The Fed sets its borrowing rate and distributes to banks, but it would seem strange to dump currency/coinage through the banking system that just sits somewhere.
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 02:43:13 PMPeople still need coins for laundry machines?
Last I checked, the machines in my apartment complex do. I haven't used them in two years since I moved into an apartment with in-unit laundry, but from what my upstairs neighbor has said, they haven't changed.
Quote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 09:05:38 PMHm. Wonder how that commissioning of coinage actually works. Isn't The Mint's production at least somewhat driven by private banks' demand? The Fed sets its borrowing rate and distributes to banks, but it would seem strange to dump currency/coinage through the banking system that just sits somewhere.
The Federal Reserve System places an annual order with the Mint/BEP outlining how much currency the system needs to meet demand over the next year. (This year's print order includes a request for 307,200,000 $2 bills.)
Quote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 04:00:31 PMQuote from: kkt on February 10, 2025, 03:57:25 PMQuote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2025, 02:35:05 PMI'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.
I agree that there a lot of pennies out there, but how do you convince lots of people to empty their pennies jars, roll them, and take them to the bank so they can go back into circulation?
Not having to roll them would go a long way.
I've never rolled coins to take them back to the bank If your bank requires that, then I'm sorry.
If it's a few, they don't care. If it's over 100 or so, either you have to roll them or they will but they'll charge, you guessed it, a fee.
Quote from: kkt on February 10, 2025, 10:11:31 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 04:00:31 PMQuote from: kkt on February 10, 2025, 03:57:25 PMQuote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2025, 02:35:05 PMI'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.
I agree that there a lot of pennies out there, but how do you convince lots of people to empty their pennies jars, roll them, and take them to the bank so they can go back into circulation?
Not having to roll them would go a long way.
I've never rolled coins to take them back to the bank If your bank requires that, then I'm sorry.
If it's a few, they don't care. If it's over 100 or so, either you have to roll them or they will but they'll charge, you guessed it, a fee.
Banks in Oklahoma usually have a Coinstar-esque machine you can dump loose change into. It prints off a receipt you take to the teller, and done.
As I complained about in another thread, my credit union in Nevada doesn't even accept or dispense coins. My business bank account's fee structure is such that even talking to a human teller costs $0.45 (and they have no change machine, either, so rolled coins it is).
I might try hitting up one of the casinos to see if they'd like to take my change. (The casino I worked at in Oklahoma exchanged coins for bills for free, but I don't really know what the standard policies are in Nevada.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 10:51:29 PMmy credit union in Nevada doesn't even accept or dispense coins. My business bank account's fee structure is such that even talking to a human teller costs $0.45
So you come into the credit union with a check you want to cash. Do they keep the cents, or round it up when they give you the money?
Quote from: GaryV on February 11, 2025, 07:11:57 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 10:51:29 PMmy credit union in Nevada doesn't even accept or dispense coins. My business bank account's fee structure is such that even talking to a human teller costs $0.45
So you come into the credit union with a check you want to cash. Do they keep the cents, or round it up when they give you the money?
The only thing you can do with a check is deposit it into your account at the ATM. If you want to withdraw cash after that, well...it's an ATM. Hope you like $20s and $100s.
The people in the branch are all sitting at desks and are there to do things like open accounts, issue loans, do wire transfers, print cashier checks, etc. They don't have any cash.
So, if you want to close your account and cash it out, then how do they give you the cash if your balance doesn't end in .00?
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 09:31:10 AMSo, if you want to close your account and cash it out, then how do they give you the cash if your balance doesn't end in .00?
If I remember correctly, currently banks are required to work with 0.1 cent increments internally, rounding things to 1 cent for external use.
I think that's the reason some of my paychecks are 1 cent more than others - tax deduction %% cannot be a full cent every time, for example. Probably there is a balance of few $0.001 floating somewhere.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 10, 2025, 04:11:51 PMQuote from: mgk920 on February 10, 2025, 02:51:30 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 10, 2025, 02:43:13 PMPeople still need coins for laundry machines?
I a in zero mood to enrich the credit card companies!
Mike
Enrich Whirlpool and buy one instead. :) (Or a used one off Craigslist.)
I'll try (and often succeed) in helping out a more local entity instead. Most of my usual coin laundry's machines were made at the Speed Queen plant in Ripon, WI. ( Most 'Continental Gerbau' commercial machines are made there).
Mike
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 09:31:10 AMSo, if you want to close your account and cash it out, then how do they give you the cash if your balance doesn't end in .00?
Quote from: kalvado on February 11, 2025, 09:59:04 AMIf I remember correctly, currently banks are required to work with 0.1 cent increments internally, rounding things to 1 cent for external use.
I think that's the reason some of my paychecks are 1 cent more than others - tax deduction %% cannot be a full cent every time, for example. Probably there is a balance of few $0.001 floating somewhere.
But if "they don't have any cash" or "even accept or dispense coins" (as Scott claims), then how could they cash out his checking account if he closed it with a remaining balance of $162.39 or whatever?
The best that I can tell, nearly all of the Congressional resistance to eliminating the cent is due to either from the Illinois delegation (the Abraham Lincoln, 'favorite son' thing) or the Tennessee delegation ('blank' maker rtazn LLC is located in Greene County. TN). This is just like how most of the organized opposition to dropping a banknote denomination is from the Massachusetts Congressional delegation at the behest of Crane and Co, of Dalton, MA (make of the paper).
Mike
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 10:38:06 AMQuote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 09:31:10 AMSo, if you want to close your account and cash it out, then how do they give you the cash if your balance doesn't end in .00?
Quote from: kalvado on February 11, 2025, 09:59:04 AMIf I remember correctly, currently banks are required to work with 0.1 cent increments internally, rounding things to 1 cent for external use.
I think that's the reason some of my paychecks are 1 cent more than others - tax deduction %% cannot be a full cent every time, for example. Probably there is a balance of few $0.001 floating somewhere.
But if "they don't have any cash" or "even accept or dispense coins" (as Scott claims), then how could they cash out his checking account if he closed it with a remaining balance of $162.39 or whatever?
The bank gives you an extra couple of suckers?
Mike
Maybe they give you a cashier's check instead of actual cash.
Quote from: kalvado on February 11, 2025, 09:59:04 AMI think that's the reason some of my paychecks are 1 cent more than others - tax deduction %% cannot be a full cent every time, for example
And yet, when you fill out your taxes, they round both income and withholding to the nearest dollar.
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 10:38:06 AMQuote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 09:31:10 AMSo, if you want to close your account and cash it out, then how do they give you the cash if your balance doesn't end in .00?
Quote from: kalvado on February 11, 2025, 09:59:04 AMIf I remember correctly, currently banks are required to work with 0.1 cent increments internally, rounding things to 1 cent for external use.
I think that's the reason some of my paychecks are 1 cent more than others - tax deduction %% cannot be a full cent every time, for example. Probably there is a balance of few $0.001 floating somewhere.
But if "they don't have any cash" or "even accept or dispense coins" (as Scott claims), then how could they cash out his checking account if he closed it with a remaining balance of $162.39 or whatever?
Cashier's check.
See, to me, that's kind of squirrely. "I'd like my money now, please." "OK, here's a check."
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 04:07:39 PMSee, to me, that's kind of squirrely. "I'd like my money now, please." "OK, here's a check."
Better than a prepaid debit card, I suppose.
Quote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 09:31:10 AMSo, if you want to close your account and cash it out, then how do they give you the cash if your balance doesn't end in .00?
I assume they print you a cashier check and it's your problem at that point. (Note that the problem would actually be if your balance didn't end in a multiple of $20, since they dispense nothing below that!) I'm not exactly thrilled with the lack of cash access at this credit union, but the customer service has been fantastic. So I kind of don't really feel like I have a good reason to move all of my money elsewhere, especially since my wife doesn't use cash at all. (I suppose I could look around for some bank or CU to open a small savings account with and do any cash-based stuff through them. There's another CU around here that I didn't use because I think their name is stupid, so I was like "Aw, man, I really don't want THAT on my debit card." But if they were my "cash bank" that wouldn't matter so much.)
Another funny thing about this credit union is that they have a little vestibule that contains just an ATM, which is accessible from outside when the branch itself is closed. To get into the vestibule, you have to insert your debit card, which it then reads to see if it's issued by that CU or not. So that makes it feel a little more secure when you're pulling money out of the ATM after dark.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 11, 2025, 05:43:21 PMAnother funny thing about this credit union is that they have a little vestibule that contains just an ATM, which is accessible from outside when the branch itself is closed. To get into the vestibule, you have to insert your debit card
My BoA has a storefront like this, around the corner from where a branch used to be. Use your card to get in the door, and then there's just enough room for 2 ATM's and a small counter. I presume the business next door to it in the strip mall has the space behind it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 11, 2025, 05:43:21 PMAnother funny thing about this credit union is that they have a little vestibule that contains just an ATM, which is accessible from outside when the branch itself is closed. To get into the vestibule, you have to insert your debit card, which it then reads to see if it's issued by that CU or not. So that makes it feel a little more secure when you're pulling money out of the ATM after dark.
Did you try any other bank card?
I dealt with similar situation before - and that door just wants a (debit?) card. You may use ATM with other banks' card after all.
Quote from: kalvado on February 11, 2025, 06:14:33 PMDid you try any other bank card?
I didn't think to because the sign on the door implies that it will only accept cards from that CU. Next time I'm over there, I'll try it though.
It wouldn't be too much of a downside for customers of other banks if it did lock them out, because there is also a drive-up ATM just feet away.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 09:59:09 PM(This year's print order includes a request for 307,200,000 $2 bills.)
I wish some of those would make it to one of my banks.
For a few years, pre-pandemic, whenever I physically went into a bank (maybe a couple times a year) to get a supply of cash, I'd ask whether they had any $2's available. No joy.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 11, 2025, 11:02:05 AMMaybe they give you a cashier's check instead of actual cash.
Or have Corporate cut a check and mail it to you in a couple of weeks.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 11, 2025, 10:37:18 PMI wish some of those would make it to one of my banks.
For a few years, pre-pandemic, whenever I physically went into a bank (maybe a couple times a year) to get a supply of cash, I'd ask whether they had any $2's available. No joy.
Try calling ahead, especially if your bank is the type that services a lot of businesses. The head teller is usually able to request $2s be added to their FRB order if they know there's a customer wanting them.
Note that you are likely to be required to buy them a strap ($200) at a time if you go this route. This is a lot of fun though, because about half the time you'll get a strap of brand new uncirculated bills in sequential serial order, or otherwise you'll get a strap someone at the FRB hastily slapped together from whatever was on hand, which often includes lots of bills from Series 1976 (sometimes with things written on them like "Happy Birthday Timmy! July 1981"). I've even pulled red-seal $2s out of straps like that.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 11, 2025, 10:52:42 PMQuote from: MikeTheActuary on February 11, 2025, 10:37:18 PMFor a few years, pre-pandemic, whenever I physically went into a bank (maybe a couple times a year) to get a supply of cash, I'd ask whether they had any $2's available. No joy.
Try calling ahead, especially if your bank is the type that services a lot of businesses. The head teller is usually able to request $2s be added to their FRB order if they know there's a customer wanting them.
Post-pandemic, I usually had little trouble getting a few $2 bills from one of the larger branches of my urban-area bank. But I don't do that often, usually when I had to spend my "lucky" $2 bill on the road, and wanted to get a replacement when I got back home.
Quote from: kalvado on February 11, 2025, 09:59:04 AMQuote from: kphoger on February 11, 2025, 09:31:10 AMSo, if you want to close your account and cash it out, then how do they give you the cash if your balance doesn't end in .00?
If I remember correctly, currently banks are required to work with 0.1 cent increments internally, rounding things to 1 cent for external use.
I think that's the reason some of my paychecks are 1 cent more than others - tax deduction %% cannot be a full cent every time, for example. Probably there is a balance of few $0.001 floating somewhere.
That's a very interesting thought because my take-home pay experiences the same phenomenon, and I haven't been able to discern a predictable pattern for when it's going to happen. I get paid every two weeks. Sometimes the take-home varies up or down three paychecks in a row (e.g., one check ends in a 10¢ increment, the next ends with 11¢, and the one after that is back to 10¢); other times, it'll remain the same as many as four times in a row. I can see my pay stub for this coming Friday shows the same take-home amount as my previous paycheck. Your suggestion makes me wonder whether that has something to do with aggregating the mills to round properly.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 11, 2025, 10:37:18 PMI wish some of those would make it to one of my banks.
For a few years, pre-pandemic, whenever I physically went into a bank (maybe a couple times a year) to get a supply of cash, I'd ask whether they had any $2's available. No joy.
I do that too. More than once, I've had the teller offer to get some out of the vault for me.
Gus Gorman in Superman III collects about $85,000 from all the partial cents in the company accounting balance.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 10, 2025, 10:51:29 PMQuote from: kkt on February 10, 2025, 10:11:31 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 10, 2025, 04:00:31 PMQuote from: kkt on February 10, 2025, 03:57:25 PMQuote from: hbelkins on February 10, 2025, 02:35:05 PMI'm not in favor of totally scrapping the penny as a unit of coinage, but I see nothing wrong with putting a halt to minting of new pennies temporarily (or even indefinitely). There are plenty of pennies in circulation, and probably a lot more being hoarded that could be put back into circulation.
I agree that there a lot of pennies out there, but how do you convince lots of people to empty their pennies jars, roll them, and take them to the bank so they can go back into circulation?
Not having to roll them would go a long way.
I've never rolled coins to take them back to the bank If your bank requires that, then I'm sorry.
If it's a few, they don't care. If it's over 100 or so, either you have to roll them or they will but they'll charge, you guessed it, a fee.
Banks in Oklahoma usually have a Coinstar-esque machine you can dump loose change into. It prints off a receipt you take to the teller, and done.
As I complained about in another thread, my credit union in Nevada doesn't even accept or dispense coins. My business bank account's fee structure is such that even talking to a human teller costs $0.45 (and they have no change machine, either, so rolled coins it is).
I might try hitting up one of the casinos to see if they'd like to take my change. (The casino I worked at in Oklahoma exchanged coins for bills for free, but I don't really know what the standard policies are in Nevada.)
I doubt that they've disinstalled them, but Nevada Casinos that had slot machines always used to have coin counters. You would hand them your bucket of coins and they cashier would dump in the bucket and pay you in bills (or a check, if you asked nicely). They might have even worked with genuine $2 and $5 tokens from the casino, but I rarely played slots (and more rarely still at those stakes).
Get rid of all but the following:
Coins: $1, 25c, 5c
Bills: $100, $20, $5, $2
May need to start recirculating the $500
And a side effect of 1c thing:
Internet provider just increased the rate - by 1 cent a month. It is now .00 instead of .99
A new trend?
Quote from: kalvado on February 12, 2025, 07:39:56 PMAnd a side effect of 1c thing:
Internet provider just increased the rate - by 1 cent a month. It is now .00 instead of .99
A new trend?
For the same psychological effect of .99, .95 would be used.
Quote from: Big John on February 12, 2025, 09:42:38 AMGus Gorman in Superman III collects about $85,000 from all the partial cents in the company accounting balance.
And of course it was the trick the hackers in Office Space were trying to use, except that their software had a bug and they took out too much too quickly.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on February 12, 2025, 07:11:31 PMGet rid of all but the following:
Coins: $1, 25c, 5c
Bills: $100, $20, $5, $2
May need to start recirculating the $500
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 17, 2024, 08:13:00 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 17, 2024, 10:54:18 AMMy proposal is simpler:
Coins: 5c, 25c, $1
Bills: $2, $5, $20, $100
I'm starting to think some of you haven't actually worked with cash before. 95¢ being three quarters and four nickels would be an unmitigated pain in the ass. Remember, rolls contain either 40 or 50 pieces; if you get rid of the dime that means you could blow through a whole roll of nickels in ten transactions. (Meaning you have to close the window while you get another roll of nickels from somewhere. Meaning customers start being a dick to you.)
The days where we ran out of dimes at work were always miserable.
Bringing back the $500 would be nice.
I really despise the fact that most places seem to have stopped carrying $10 bills. My wallet gets stuffed with $5s, which these days are barely worth anything, so I always end up having to use two or more of them anyway. When I lived in Oklahoma, I would get $10s from the bank instead of $20s to avoid this.
Quote from: kkt on February 12, 2025, 09:57:29 PMQuote from: Big John on February 12, 2025, 09:42:38 AMGus Gorman in Superman III collects about $85,000 from all the partial cents in the company accounting balance.
And of course it was the trick the hackers in Office Space were trying to use, except that their software had a bug and they took out too much too quickly.
Which was a great commentary on those who have an inflated view of their own competence.
Quote from: GaryV on February 11, 2025, 06:13:50 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 11, 2025, 05:43:21 PMAnother funny thing about this credit union is that they have a little vestibule that contains just an ATM, which is accessible from outside when the branch itself is closed. To get into the vestibule, you have to insert your debit card
My BoA has a storefront like this, around the corner from where a branch used to be. Use your card to get in the door, and then there's just enough room for 2 ATM's and a small counter. I presume the business next door to it in the strip mall has the space behind it.
A regular bank here in downtown Appleton, WI does that. It's fairly common.
Mike
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 12, 2025, 10:01:40 PMBringing back the $500 would be nice.
The $500 was pulled because law enforcement types dislike how it facilitates certain criminal activity.
It's not coming back unless the real value of the dollar really tanks, and even then...well, I have my suspicion that that those law enforcement types would have preferred to eliminate everything larger than the $20.
Bring back the Chase notes.
This is sacrilege for someone from Massachusetts, but I wonder if the U.S. would consider moving towards polymer banknotes.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 13, 2025, 07:44:20 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 12, 2025, 10:01:40 PMBringing back the $500 would be nice.
The $500 was pulled because law enforcement types dislike how it facilitates certain criminal activity.
It's not coming back unless the real value of the dollar really tanks, and even then...well, I have my suspicion that that those law enforcement types would have preferred to eliminate everything larger than the $20.
Europe
has had a €500 bill and law enforcement
are were pretty unhappy about that; it's sometimes known as the "gangster note" because there's evidence it's popular for money laundering. I tend to think that if there were something larger than a $100 bill, a new denomination like a $200 might make more sense (there is a €200). Even then, though, I have a feeling seeing one would be unusual for most people. I used a €200 in Berlin once and the lady seemed very surprised by it, as though she had not seen one before.
With all the stats that have been mentioned in the past week or two in connection with news reports about the penny, I tend to think the odds of anything larger than a $100 making a comeback are very, very slim, even with $100 not being worth as much as it used to be.
Back in 1997, I asked at the bank if they could give me a $500 and they said no because the Federal Reserve requires them to return them for destruction whenever they get one. (The reason I wanted one: I was moving out of the house in Alabama where I'd lived for the summer and I needed to pay my landlord about $500, but I couldn't give him a check because I was closing my bank account. That's also why I remember it was 1997.) Maybe 10 years after that, my parents were going to Uganda, where my father had a business trip, and they needed $500 cash to pay for a safari. My father told my mother to get a $500 at the bank. No dice. He was annoyed until I told him what I had been told ten years earlier. He didn't have a response when I suggested he just pay in euro because they had a €500.
(Edited to amend the first paragraph because it turns out the €500 was discontinued in 2019, though it's still legal tender in the eurozone.)
There is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
Oh, I can think of reasons for it (I remember what a pain it was when I worked at a computer store and someone paid $4600 cash for two laptops), but as a general matter, they're not compelling enough to outweigh the concern about money laundering and the overall decline in the use of cash for large transactions. As to that latter point, I'd suggest that the odds are that the use of cash for large transactions has likely declined to a greater degree than the use of cash for transactions overall. That is, for example, you're probably more likely to see someone pay $50 in cash at the gas station than to see someone pay, say, $3500 cash at the Apple Store to buy that Vision Pro headset. I think the people who make larger transactions are probably highly likely to have and use credit cards on which they have enough available credit or to be able to either write a personal check or get a cashier's check for transactions where credit is not an option (e.g., putting down a large down payment on a car or paying for the car in full).
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 13, 2025, 09:10:52 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
Oh, I can think of reasons for it (I remember what a pain it was when I worked at a computer store and someone paid $4600 cash for two laptops), but as a general matter, they're not compelling enough to outweigh the concern about money laundering and the overall decline in the use of cash for large transactions. As to that latter point, I'd suggest that the odds are that the use of cash for large transactions has likely declined to a greater degree than the use of cash for transactions overall. That is, for example, you're probably more likely to see someone pay $50 in cash at the gas station than to see someone pay, say, $3500 cash at the Apple Store to buy that Vision Pro headset. I think the people who make larger transactions are probably highly likely to have and use credit cards on which they have enough available credit or to be able to either write a personal check or get a cashier's check for transactions where credit is not an option (e.g., putting down a large down payment on a car or paying for the car in full).
Yes, the bolded is a much better way to say it than I did.
I also think if we move to a $1 coin, there will be no need for a $2 bill.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 13, 2025, 09:10:52 AMI'd suggest that the odds are that the use of cash for large transactions has likely declined to a greater degree than the use of cash for transactions overall.
My experience is that small contractors would happily take cash for odd tasks. Last time I paid a guy who works grounds in our building in cash for some work on my house - and don't ask me if it would be on his 1040.
As for truly criminal money, Bitcoin and alike are doing great because they are taking that spot. Paper leaves too much trace.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 13, 2025, 09:10:52 AMThat is, for example, you're probably more likely to see someone pay $50 in cash at the gas station than to see someone pay, say, $3500 cash at the Apple Store to buy that Vision Pro headset. I think the people who make larger transactions are probably highly likely to have and use credit cards on which they have enough available credit or to be able to either write a personal check or get a cashier's check for transactions where credit is not an option (e.g., putting down a large down payment on a car or paying for the car in full).
We've paid cash for our last four vehicles (used) and, yes, we've definitely written a check each time instead of counting out $100 bills.
The only time I deal with a large amount of actual cash is when I'm doing my final bank runs leading up to a church mission trip, and that's because I don't have a church credit card, so I do all the trip expenses in cash and just keep the receipts. Still, the only expenses I use $100 bills for are the hotel stays down and back, plus paying the import deposit(s) on the vehicle(s) at the Mexican border. Both of those are just as easily accomplished with $50 bills instead. When Mexican customs pays me the deposit(s) back at the border on the return trip, they usually pay it in $100 bills, and I honestly wish they would use smaller denominations, because some businesses still don't like accepting $100 bills, so sometimes it's hard to actually use that cash for the rest of the trip north.
For what it's worth, when I do my foreign exchange here in Wichita, the person at the forex desk always asks me if I want any 1000 MXN bills (equivalent to 50 USD), because they all know hardly anybody uses them in Mexico: you almost never see anything larger than a 500 MXN bill (equivalent to 25 USD) in day-to-day life. I've stopped saying yes, because they don't even necessarily have any in stock at the bank, and I see no need in making them order some for me.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 13, 2025, 07:44:20 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 12, 2025, 10:01:40 PMBringing back the $500 would be nice.
The $500 was pulled because law enforcement types dislike how it facilitates certain criminal activity.
It's not coming back unless the real value of the dollar really tanks, and even then...well, I have my suspicion that that those law enforcement types would have preferred to eliminate everything larger than the $20.
When the $500 bill was discontinued, it had an inflation-adjusted value of more than $4000. A $500 bill today would be the equivalent of about $60 back when they discontinued the $500 bill but left the $100 in circulation.
Just for what it's worth, the first quote in kphoger's comment is from me, not from SEWIGuy.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
To reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 13, 2025, 10:13:59 AMJust for what it's worth, the first quote in kphoger's comment is from me, not from SEWIGuy.
Fixed. Thank you for catching that.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
To reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
If that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
Do the dispensary businesses still have to use cash? Because it might be legal in their state, but it's not legal in the US, so banks and CC companies won't touch them.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMIf that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
Or, you know, the few times you need to do so, just use a few more bills.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 13, 2025, 07:44:20 AMThe $500 was pulled because law enforcement types dislike how it facilitates certain criminal activity.
Quote from: GaryV on February 13, 2025, 11:21:14 AMDo the dispensary businesses still have to use cash? Because it might be legal in their state, but it's not legal in the US, so banks and CC companies won't touch them.
hmm
Quote from: GaryV on February 13, 2025, 11:21:14 AMDo the dispensary businesses still have to use cash? Because it might be legal in their state, but it's not legal in the US, so banks and CC companies won't touch them.
In Colorado, yes.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
To reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
If that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
You said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 11:48:30 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
To reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
If that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
You said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
That's not a legitimate reason.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:51:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 11:48:30 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
To reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
If that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
You said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
That's not a legitimate reason.
That just like your opinion, man.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 13, 2025, 11:25:25 AMQuote from: GaryV on February 13, 2025, 11:21:14 AMDo the dispensary businesses still have to use cash? Because it might be legal in their state, but it's not legal in the US, so banks and CC companies won't touch them.
In Colorado, yes.
Is that a blanket thing for the state? In Massachusetts some places do and some did and stopped accepting them so it's a hit-or-miss system.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:08:15 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:51:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 11:48:30 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
To reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
If that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
You said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
That's not a legitimate reason.
That just like your opinion, man.
That's the opinion of the government issuing those bills. So they certainly couldn't care less. Moreover, $10k daily cash limit still exists...
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:25:20 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:08:15 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:51:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 11:48:30 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
To reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
If that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
You said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
That's not a legitimate reason.
That just like your opinion, man.
That's the opinion of the government issuing those bills. So they certainly couldn't care less. Moreover, $10k daily cash limit still exists...
That's just like government's opinion, man. Surely there are governmental opinions you differ with.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:31:52 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:25:20 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:08:15 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:51:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 11:48:30 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
To reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
If that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
You said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
That's not a legitimate reason.
That just like your opinion, man.
That's the opinion of the government issuing those bills. So they certainly couldn't care less. Moreover, $10k daily cash limit still exists...
That's just like government's opinion, man. Surely there are governmental opinions you differ with.
Thing is, it's the government which literally signs those bills.
And from the federal perspective, this only underscores importance of limiting high value bill circulation.
You and I are certainly entitled for other opinions, but we don't have money printing authority.
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:38:50 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:31:52 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:25:20 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:08:15 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:51:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 11:48:30 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
To reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
If that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
You said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
That's not a legitimate reason.
That just like your opinion, man.
That's the opinion of the government issuing those bills. So they certainly couldn't care less. Moreover, $10k daily cash limit still exists...
That's just like government's opinion, man. Surely there are governmental opinions you differ with.
Thing is, it's the government which literally signs those bills.
And from the federal perspective, this only underscores importance of limiting high value bill circulation.
You and I are certainly entitled for other opinions, but we don't have money printing authority.
Not sure how that pertains to just providing a reason for higher value bills. Not my problem if government ignores it.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:41:28 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:38:50 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:31:52 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:25:20 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:08:15 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:51:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 11:48:30 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
To reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
If that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
You said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
That's not a legitimate reason.
That just like your opinion, man.
That's the opinion of the government issuing those bills. So they certainly couldn't care less. Moreover, $10k daily cash limit still exists...
That's just like government's opinion, man. Surely there are governmental opinions you differ with.
Thing is, it's the government which literally signs those bills.
And from the federal perspective, this only underscores importance of limiting high value bill circulation.
You and I are certainly entitled for other opinions, but we don't have money printing authority.
Not sure how that pertains to just providing a reason for higher value bills. Not my problem if government ignores it.
If federal government recognizes dispensaries as a legitimate business, the need for large amounts of cash would disappear as other types of transactions take over. So it's really a circular argument - yes there is a case, but only because its not a good case for those in charge
Quote from: SectorZ on February 13, 2025, 12:19:44 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on February 13, 2025, 11:25:25 AMQuote from: GaryV on February 13, 2025, 11:21:14 AMDo the dispensary businesses still have to use cash? Because it might be legal in their state, but it's not legal in the US, so banks and CC companies won't touch them.
In Colorado, yes.
Is that a blanket thing for the state? In Massachusetts some places do and some did and stopped accepting them so it's a hit-or-miss system.
As far as I understand, blanket thing for the state.
Quote from: GaryV on February 13, 2025, 11:21:14 AMDo the dispensary businesses still have to use cash? Because it might be legal in their state, but it's not legal in the US, so banks and CC companies won't touch them.
Scott and I had this conversation a few years ago. Pertinent quotes shown below.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 15, 2021, 01:58:28 PMQuote from: 1 on February 15, 2021, 01:40:26 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 15, 2021, 01:34:02 PMAnd yeah, to pay the taxes, they have to show up at the IRS office with a suitcase full of $20s.
Why can't they use $100s?
Their customers pay in $20s, and they're not allowed to go to the bank to change them out.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 18, 2021, 02:42:28 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 18, 2021, 09:29:45 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 15, 2021, 02:12:43 PMI have no idea what the dispensary does when they run out of, say, quarters.
How do they get quarters to begin with?
This question bothered me so I asked. It sounds like the business lends managers a certain amount of money they are required to keep in their personal bank accounts for this purpose. Whenever the store needs small change, the managers supply it out of that money ("hey, can you stop and get us some quarters on your way in today?"). I would imagine in the case of a termination or resignation they have to repay the "loan".
I don't envy their accounting department.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMTo reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMIf that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 11:48:30 AMYou said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:51:41 AMThat's not a legitimate reason.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:08:15 PMThat just like your opinion, man.
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:25:20 PMThat's the opinion of the government issuing those bills.
For the sake of clarity: It is the opinion of the government that reducing the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases is not a legitimate reason to have bills larger than $100. This sounds accurate.
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:38:50 PMThing is, it's the government which literally signs those bills.
And from the federal perspective, this only underscores importance of limiting high value bill circulation.
You and I are certainly entitled for other opinions, but we don't have money printing authority.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:41:28 PMNot sure how that pertains to just providing a reason for higher value bills. Not my problem if government ignores it.
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:47:05 PMIf federal government recognizes dispensaries as a legitimate business, the need for large amounts of cash would disappear as other types of transactions take over. So it's really a circular argument - yes there is a case, but only because its not a good case for those in charge
Are you combining two conversations into one here? I don't think anyone was claiming that dispensaries' being cash-only operations is a legitimate reason to have bills larger than $100. I thought the original dispensary question by |GaryV| was just a neutral query.
Quote from: kphoger on February 13, 2025, 01:20:28 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMTo reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMIf that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 11:48:30 AMYou said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:51:41 AMThat's not a legitimate reason.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:08:15 PMThat just like your opinion, man.
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:25:20 PMThat's the opinion of the government issuing those bills.
For the sake of clarity: It is the opinion of the government that reducing the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases is not a legitimate reason to have bills larger than $100. This sounds accurate.
....
I think you guys are basically just echoing the same point I made in reply #165: Yes, there are reasons to circulate large-denomination bills in excess of $100. But those reasons are not compelling enough to outweigh the concern about money laundering and the overall decline in the use of cash for large transactions.
(I, for one, like $50s and $100s. Easier to carry than a stack of $20s, although I don't use them much because the two $100s currently in my wallet have been there since last fall. But, as I have noted elsewhere, I also always get $5s when I travel because I use them for tipping hotel housekeeping and the attendant in the first-class car on the Acela.)
Other than when I've just finished my weekly bartending shift, I keep two $20 in my money clip. That's plenty.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 13, 2025, 01:44:16 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 13, 2025, 01:20:28 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 10:33:32 AMTo reduce the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:01:41 AMIf that is actually a concern, don't make cash purchases. It's 2025.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 11:48:30 AMYou said there was no reason. I simply gave you one.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 11:51:41 AMThat's not a legitimate reason.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 12:08:15 PMThat just like your opinion, man.
Quote from: kalvado on February 13, 2025, 12:25:20 PMThat's the opinion of the government issuing those bills.
For the sake of clarity: It is the opinion of the government that reducing the number of bills one needs for large cash purchases is not a legitimate reason to have bills larger than $100. This sounds accurate.
....
I think you guys are basically just echoing the same point I made in reply #165: Yes, there are reasons to circulate large-denomination bills in excess of $100. But those reasons are not compelling enough to outweigh the concern about money laundering and the overall decline in the use of cash for large transactions.
(I, for one, like $50s and $100s. Easier to carry than a stack of $20s, although I don't use them much because the two $100s currently in my wallet have been there since last fall. But, as I have noted elsewhere, I also always get $5s when I travel because I use them for tipping hotel housekeeping and the attendant in the first-class car on the Acela.)
No, I am not echoing your point. I am simply saying there is a reason to keep high-value bills.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 02:09:04 PMNo, I am not echoing your point. I am simply saying there is a reason to keep high-value bills.
I think he meant everyone
except you.
Quote from: kphoger on February 13, 2025, 02:11:46 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 02:09:04 PMNo, I am not echoing your point. I am simply saying there is a reason to keep high-value bills.
I think he meant everyone except you.
That's just like your opinion, man.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 02:13:36 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 13, 2025, 02:11:46 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 02:09:04 PMNo, I am not echoing your point. I am simply saying there is a reason to keep high-value bills.
I think he meant everyone except you.
That's just like your opinion, man.
That's the opinion of the government issuing those bills.
Quote from: kphoger on February 13, 2025, 02:37:10 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 02:13:36 PMQuote from: kphoger on February 13, 2025, 02:11:46 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 02:09:04 PMNo, I am not echoing your point. I am simply saying there is a reason to keep high-value bills.
I think he meant everyone except you.
That's just like your opinion, man.
That's the opinion of the government issuing those bills.
Still doesn't mean there isn't a reason for higher value bills.
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2025, 04:16:22 PMStill doesn't mean there isn't a reason for higher value bills.
If it was OK to have $100 bills in 1969, then it should be OK to have $500 bills in 2025.
Quote from: kphoger on February 13, 2025, 10:12:03 AMWhen the $500 bill was discontinued, it had an inflation-adjusted value of more than $4000. A $500 bill today would be the equivalent of about $60 back when they discontinued the $500 bill but left the $100 in circulation.
On the other hand, maybe they should have discontinued the $100 bill back then too...
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on February 13, 2025, 07:44:20 AMThe $500 was pulled because law enforcement types dislike how it facilitates certain criminal activity.
I don't know that that is really as high of a priority as it was in 1969 when the $500 was pulled.
Another legitimate reason for $500 bills other than those mentioned above is casino payouts—if someone wins, say, $4875 (a common payout amount), having that in $500 bills is a lot better for the casino (someone putting a $500 bill into a machine is five times better than someone putting a $100 into it) and the patron (48 bills is clunky). A check is bad for the casino because it's a hassle to issue (you normally have to get ahold of some yahoo in accounting who's too much of a wuss to be there on swing or grave) and can't be put back into the machine.
If you want further proof of what casinos think of the $500 denomination...just about every casino with table games issues a purple $500 chip.
Quote from: GaryV on February 13, 2025, 11:21:14 AMDo the dispensary businesses still have to use cash? Because it might be legal in their state, but it's not legal in the US, so banks and CC companies won't touch them.
In Nevada, the way the dispensaries have done an end-run around this is they have the cash register set up to also be an ATM. You "withdraw money from the ATM" to the next higher multiple of $20 above your total. Then they just give you back the change as if you paid in cash.
Weren't the larger bills above $100 (such as $500, $1,000, etc.) also used primarily to help transfer cash between banks, and not necessarily mean for public use despite technically being legal tender?
Earlier versions (1970s) of Let's Make a Deal sometimes used high-denomination bills as prizes or props.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 14, 2025, 12:24:53 AMWeren't the larger bills above $100 (such as $500, $1,000, etc.) also used primarily to help transfer cash between banks, and not necessarily mean for public use despite technically being legal tender?
That's for really high value bills. 100k was the biggest one for that, I believe.
The $100,000 was used for transfers between Federal Reserve Banks and were never released to the public. (The Federal Reserve had a whole set of bills used just for this. The backs were printed in orange instead of green ink.)
The $10,000 was the largest released to the general public.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 13, 2025, 06:30:45 PMAnother legitimate reason for $500 bills other than those mentioned above is casino payouts—if someone wins, say, $4875 (a common payout amount), having that in $500 bills is a lot better for the casino (someone putting a $500 bill into a machine is five times better than someone putting a $100 into it) and the patron (48 bills is clunky).
I'd rather have 48 bills that I could actually spend somewhere, than 9 bills that I couldn't.
I pay pretty much everything with cash, with two exceptions:
1. Impossible, like Uber rides or my student loans. (Student loans use account number and routing number to avoid credit card fees.)
2. Several hundred or higher. For example, when I get a new MacBook Pro or iPhone (only when my old one dies, I'm not one to replace frequently), I use my card for that.
I regularly go to the bank in-person to withdraw $400, or if I know I'm making a large purchase immediately after, $500 or $600. I typically get the following:
- If I'm making a $100+ payment soon, one $100. For example, all you can eat sushi for three people and my choir semester fee are both between $100 and $200.
- 2 $50s, 3 if I know I'll be spending one the same day, such as on groceries
- About 7 $20s
- About 9 $10s
- About 9 $5s. These three vary slightly based on how many of each are currently in my wallet.
- 25 $1s. The bank groups bills in stacks of 25, so it's easy for them. I often use them all before having to go to the bank again.
- If I don't have enough, a roll of quarters. I use more quarters than I receive, although I estimate I get a roll maybe once every six months.
- If I don't have any, 5 $2s (if they have any, which they do about 1/4 of the time), a roll of dollar coins, or a roll of half dollars. These are only used for tips at restaurants, and only if the total comes to certain numbers (e.g. the total post-tip has to end in 2 or 7 for me to use a $2).
Interestingly, one time I was at the sushi place, someone nearby noticed my mom's car had a paint issue, and he said he would do it for about $475, cash only. I had just stocked up with $600, so I surprisingly had enough.
TL;DR I regularly use $50s, I use $100s for special occasions, and I would have used a $500 or a hypothetical $200 if it existed exactly once.
I never have cash on me. I use credit cards as much as possible for everything, mostly because the cash doesn't exit my checking account for weeks after the purchase, which gives me plenty of time to plan ahead.
I also just use my card. Maybe use cash once a quarter for someone selling stuff off a cart or as gifts, but even then card or Venmo/Paypal options are becoming more common.
I used to collect quarters, but I have so little change nowadays that my collection hasn't grown in years. My change jar gets fed very rarely...
I should also say that I get points on my card with every purchase.
I used to get interest payments on my checking account as well, which means I was incentivized to pay my card bill as late as possible, but that's no longer the case.
Quote from: kphoger on February 14, 2025, 09:32:51 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 13, 2025, 06:30:45 PMAnother legitimate reason for $500 bills other than those mentioned above is casino payouts—if someone wins, say, $4875 (a common payout amount), having that in $500 bills is a lot better for the casino (someone putting a $500 bill into a machine is five times better than someone putting a $100 into it) and the patron (48 bills is clunky).
I'd rather have 48 bills that I could actually spend somewhere, than 9 bills that I couldn't.
Well, sure, and you could always ask for smaller bills for part of the payout. Most people winning a jackpot that big would be gambling part of it and then bringing the rest to their bank the next day, though, so defaulting to the largest bill available was a reasonable assumption.
At one point the casino I worked at tried to enforce the policy that part of each jackpot be paid in slot machine vouchers. That went over about as well as you'd expect.
I've been using more cash since I moved to Las Vegas. And—not intending to get political—I've been using even more since the news came out that Elon Musk has access to at least portions of the ACH system. I don't know what he has access to exactly, or whether he'd be interested in my transaction details, but I don't exactly care to give him any more data than he already has.
Trying to figure how eliminating pennies and nickels but keeping dimes and quarters would make change easier. The one hole in that theory is if you get 5¢ or 15¢ back in change, that would mean either you or the store are getting shorted. Every other combination involving a 5 or 0 would be covered. Another drawback is who wants to carry a shitload of dimes in their pocket?
Quote from: Road Hog on February 14, 2025, 09:12:44 PMwho wants to carry a shitload of dimes in their pocket?
Someone who has to use the Le Petomane Thruway?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 09:15:50 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on February 13, 2025, 09:10:52 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
Oh, I can think of reasons for it (I remember what a pain it was when I worked at a computer store and someone paid $4600 cash for two laptops), but as a general matter, they're not compelling enough to outweigh the concern about money laundering and the overall decline in the use of cash for large transactions. As to that latter point, I'd suggest that the odds are that the use of cash for large transactions has likely declined to a greater degree than the use of cash for transactions overall. That is, for example, you're probably more likely to see someone pay $50 in cash at the gas station than to see someone pay, say, $3500 cash at the Apple Store to buy that Vision Pro headset. I think the people who make larger transactions are probably highly likely to have and use credit cards on which they have enough available credit or to be able to either write a personal check or get a cashier's check for transactions where credit is not an option (e.g., putting down a large down payment on a car or paying for the car in full).
Yes, the bolded is a much better way to say it than I did.
I also think if we move to a $1 coin, there will be no need for a $2 bill.
We need higher value coins, not just $1, but also a new $2 coin and a re-introduced $5 coin.
Mike
Quote from: hotdogPi on February 14, 2025, 09:42:36 AMI pay pretty much everything with cash, with two exceptions:
1. Impossible, like Uber rides or my student loans. (Student loans use account number and routing number to avoid credit card fees.)
2. Several hundred or higher. For example, when I get a new MacBook Pro or iPhone (only when my old one dies, I'm not one to replace frequently), I use my card for that.
I regularly go to the bank in-person to withdraw $400, or if I know I'm making a large purchase immediately after, $500 or $600. I typically get the following:
- If I'm making a $100+ payment soon, one $100. For example, all you can eat sushi for three people and my choir semester fee are both between $100 and $200.
- 2 $50s, 3 if I know I'll be spending one the same day, such as on groceries
- About 7 $20s
- About 9 $10s
- About 9 $5s. These three vary slightly based on how many of each are currently in my wallet.
- 25 $1s. The bank groups bills in stacks of 25, so it's easy for them. I often use them all before having to go to the bank again.
- If I don't have enough, a roll of quarters. I use more quarters than I receive, although I estimate I get a roll maybe once every six months.
- If I don't have any, 5 $2s (if they have any, which they do about 1/4 of the time), a roll of dollar coins, or a roll of half dollars. These are only used for tips at restaurants, and only if the total comes to certain numbers (e.g. the total post-tip has to end in 2 or 7 for me to use a $2).
Interestingly, one time I was at the sushi place, someone nearby noticed my mom's car had a paint issue, and he said he would do it for about $475, cash only. I had just stocked up with $600, so I surprisingly had enough.
TL;DR I regularly use $50s, I use $100s for special occasions, and I would have used a $500 or a hypothetical $200 if it existed exactly once.
We have quite a few * LEGAL * direct immigrants from places where distrust of banks is a very real part of their 'old country' culture. As such, $50s arenow pretty common everyday items to them. When they order a delivered supper for the family, EXPECT a $50 as payment.
Mike
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2025, 01:43:00 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 09:15:50 AMQuote from: 1995hoo on February 13, 2025, 09:10:52 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 13, 2025, 08:58:20 AMThere is no reason to have bills larger than $100.
Oh, I can think of reasons for it (I remember what a pain it was when I worked at a computer store and someone paid $4600 cash for two laptops), but as a general matter, they're not compelling enough to outweigh the concern about money laundering and the overall decline in the use of cash for large transactions. As to that latter point, I'd suggest that the odds are that the use of cash for large transactions has likely declined to a greater degree than the use of cash for transactions overall. That is, for example, you're probably more likely to see someone pay $50 in cash at the gas station than to see someone pay, say, $3500 cash at the Apple Store to buy that Vision Pro headset. I think the people who make larger transactions are probably highly likely to have and use credit cards on which they have enough available credit or to be able to either write a personal check or get a cashier's check for transactions where credit is not an option (e.g., putting down a large down payment on a car or paying for the car in full).
Yes, the bolded is a much better way to say it than I did.
I also think if we move to a $1 coin, there will be no need for a $2 bill.
We need higher value coins, not just $1, but also a new $2 coin and a re-introduced $5 coin.
Mike
I don't think we need a $2 anything. $1 and $5, whether a bill or coin, is fine.
IMHO, after considering the current penny issue.
Coins: Nickle, Dime, Quarter, Half, Dollar, Two Dollar. $2 to be same size and bimetalic nature as Canadian "two-nie". Whoever they put on it must have been dead in 1975 to qualify.
Bills: 5, 10, 20, 50, 100. Announce that a $250 bill will be issued when the CPI says that $100 now buys what $40 bought in 2025.
Old money: Simply leave pennies in circulation, it will take a decade or more for there to be a shortage. Make "Swedish rounding" legal for cash transactions, when that happens, or allow merchants to issue their own plastic tokens or to issue a card with 25 squares on it, 25 punch outs and you get a quarter. Burn all $1 as they roll through the banks, forcing $1 and $2 coins on people. Flood the market with 50 cent pieces, combined with a PR campaign that points out they are not collectable.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2025, 01:55:05 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on February 14, 2025, 09:42:36 AMI pay pretty much everything with cash, with two exceptions:
1. Impossible, like Uber rides or my student loans. (Student loans use account number and routing number to avoid credit card fees.)
2. Several hundred or higher. For example, when I get a new MacBook Pro or iPhone (only when my old one dies, I'm not one to replace frequently), I use my card for that.
I regularly go to the bank in-person to withdraw $400, or if I know I'm making a large purchase immediately after, $500 or $600. I typically get the following:
- If I'm making a $100+ payment soon, one $100. For example, all you can eat sushi for three people and my choir semester fee are both between $100 and $200.
- 2 $50s, 3 if I know I'll be spending one the same day, such as on groceries
- About 7 $20s
- About 9 $10s
- About 9 $5s. These three vary slightly based on how many of each are currently in my wallet.
- 25 $1s. The bank groups bills in stacks of 25, so it's easy for them. I often use them all before having to go to the bank again.
- If I don't have enough, a roll of quarters. I use more quarters than I receive, although I estimate I get a roll maybe once every six months.
- If I don't have any, 5 $2s (if they have any, which they do about 1/4 of the time), a roll of dollar coins, or a roll of half dollars. These are only used for tips at restaurants, and only if the total comes to certain numbers (e.g. the total post-tip has to end in 2 or 7 for me to use a $2).
Interestingly, one time I was at the sushi place, someone nearby noticed my mom's car had a paint issue, and he said he would do it for about $475, cash only. I had just stocked up with $600, so I surprisingly had enough.
TL;DR I regularly use $50s, I use $100s for special occasions, and I would have used a $500 or a hypothetical $200 if it existed exactly once.
We have quite a few * LEGAL * direct immigrants from places where distrust of banks is a very real part of their 'old country' culture. As such, $50s arenow pretty common everyday items to them. When they order a delivered supper for the family, EXPECT a $50 as payment.
Mike
Mike
Specifying their immigration status is completely unnecessary.
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 02:51:29 PMQuote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2025, 01:55:05 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on February 14, 2025, 09:42:36 AMI pay pretty much everything with cash, with two exceptions:
1. Impossible, like Uber rides or my student loans. (Student loans use account number and routing number to avoid credit card fees.)
2. Several hundred or higher. For example, when I get a new MacBook Pro or iPhone (only when my old one dies, I'm not one to replace frequently), I use my card for that.
I regularly go to the bank in-person to withdraw $400, or if I know I'm making a large purchase immediately after, $500 or $600. I typically get the following:
- If I'm making a $100+ payment soon, one $100. For example, all you can eat sushi for three people and my choir semester fee are both between $100 and $200.
- 2 $50s, 3 if I know I'll be spending one the same day, such as on groceries
- About 7 $20s
- About 9 $10s
- About 9 $5s. These three vary slightly based on how many of each are currently in my wallet.
- 25 $1s. The bank groups bills in stacks of 25, so it's easy for them. I often use them all before having to go to the bank again.
- If I don't have enough, a roll of quarters. I use more quarters than I receive, although I estimate I get a roll maybe once every six months.
- If I don't have any, 5 $2s (if they have any, which they do about 1/4 of the time), a roll of dollar coins, or a roll of half dollars. These are only used for tips at restaurants, and only if the total comes to certain numbers (e.g. the total post-tip has to end in 2 or 7 for me to use a $2).
Interestingly, one time I was at the sushi place, someone nearby noticed my mom's car had a paint issue, and he said he would do it for about $475, cash only. I had just stocked up with $600, so I surprisingly had enough.
TL;DR I regularly use $50s, I use $100s for special occasions, and I would have used a $500 or a hypothetical $200 if it existed exactly once.
We have quite a few * LEGAL * direct immigrants from places where distrust of banks is a very real part of their 'old country' culture. As such, $50s arenow pretty common everyday items to them. When they order a delivered supper for the family, EXPECT a $50 as payment.
Mike
Mike
Specifying their immigration status is completely unnecessary.
It is, because banking system is different in different countries, so is trust to that system. Same can be told about political, law enforcement, etc.
So people who grew in a different country can, and will, view things differently than even those who do not share common perception yet grew up within the same system.
Quote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 03:02:11 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 02:51:29 PMQuote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2025, 01:55:05 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on February 14, 2025, 09:42:36 AMI pay pretty much everything with cash, with two exceptions:
1. Impossible, like Uber rides or my student loans. (Student loans use account number and routing number to avoid credit card fees.)
2. Several hundred or higher. For example, when I get a new MacBook Pro or iPhone (only when my old one dies, I'm not one to replace frequently), I use my card for that.
I regularly go to the bank in-person to withdraw $400, or if I know I'm making a large purchase immediately after, $500 or $600. I typically get the following:
- If I'm making a $100+ payment soon, one $100. For example, all you can eat sushi for three people and my choir semester fee are both between $100 and $200.
- 2 $50s, 3 if I know I'll be spending one the same day, such as on groceries
- About 7 $20s
- About 9 $10s
- About 9 $5s. These three vary slightly based on how many of each are currently in my wallet.
- 25 $1s. The bank groups bills in stacks of 25, so it's easy for them. I often use them all before having to go to the bank again.
- If I don't have enough, a roll of quarters. I use more quarters than I receive, although I estimate I get a roll maybe once every six months.
- If I don't have any, 5 $2s (if they have any, which they do about 1/4 of the time), a roll of dollar coins, or a roll of half dollars. These are only used for tips at restaurants, and only if the total comes to certain numbers (e.g. the total post-tip has to end in 2 or 7 for me to use a $2).
Interestingly, one time I was at the sushi place, someone nearby noticed my mom's car had a paint issue, and he said he would do it for about $475, cash only. I had just stocked up with $600, so I surprisingly had enough.
TL;DR I regularly use $50s, I use $100s for special occasions, and I would have used a $500 or a hypothetical $200 if it existed exactly once.
We have quite a few * LEGAL * direct immigrants from places where distrust of banks is a very real part of their 'old country' culture. As such, $50s arenow pretty common everyday items to them. When they order a delivered supper for the family, EXPECT a $50 as payment.
Mike
Mike
Specifying their immigration status is completely unnecessary.
It is, because banking system is different in different countries, so is trust to that system. Same can be told about political, law enforcement, etc.
So people who grew in a different country can, and will, view things differently than even those who do not share common perception yet grew up within the same system.
You're missing the point. Whether the immigrants mgk is referring to came here legally or not changes nothing about the point being made. Why did that need to be specified?
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 03:06:14 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 03:02:11 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 02:51:29 PMQuote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2025, 01:55:05 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on February 14, 2025, 09:42:36 AMI pay pretty much everything with cash, with two exceptions:
1. Impossible, like Uber rides or my student loans. (Student loans use account number and routing number to avoid credit card fees.)
2. Several hundred or higher. For example, when I get a new MacBook Pro or iPhone (only when my old one dies, I'm not one to replace frequently), I use my card for that.
I regularly go to the bank in-person to withdraw $400, or if I know I'm making a large purchase immediately after, $500 or $600. I typically get the following:
- If I'm making a $100+ payment soon, one $100. For example, all you can eat sushi for three people and my choir semester fee are both between $100 and $200.
- 2 $50s, 3 if I know I'll be spending one the same day, such as on groceries
- About 7 $20s
- About 9 $10s
- About 9 $5s. These three vary slightly based on how many of each are currently in my wallet.
- 25 $1s. The bank groups bills in stacks of 25, so it's easy for them. I often use them all before having to go to the bank again.
- If I don't have enough, a roll of quarters. I use more quarters than I receive, although I estimate I get a roll maybe once every six months.
- If I don't have any, 5 $2s (if they have any, which they do about 1/4 of the time), a roll of dollar coins, or a roll of half dollars. These are only used for tips at restaurants, and only if the total comes to certain numbers (e.g. the total post-tip has to end in 2 or 7 for me to use a $2).
Interestingly, one time I was at the sushi place, someone nearby noticed my mom's car had a paint issue, and he said he would do it for about $475, cash only. I had just stocked up with $600, so I surprisingly had enough.
TL;DR I regularly use $50s, I use $100s for special occasions, and I would have used a $500 or a hypothetical $200 if it existed exactly once.
We have quite a few * LEGAL * direct immigrants from places where distrust of banks is a very real part of their 'old country' culture. As such, $50s arenow pretty common everyday items to them. When they order a delivered supper for the family, EXPECT a $50 as payment.
Mike
Mike
Specifying their immigration status is completely unnecessary.
It is, because banking system is different in different countries, so is trust to that system. Same can be told about political, law enforcement, etc.
So people who grew in a different country can, and will, view things differently than even those who do not share common perception yet grew up within the same system.
You're missing the point. Whether the immigrants mgk is referring to came here legally or not changes nothing about the point being made. Why did that need to be specified?
Because someone without solid legal standing will have problems with bank system - starting from SSN and credit check while opening an account.
Immigrant with proper paperwork can get a real SSN, pass all checks and get a fully legal account in most banks (BoA may be different, but whatever). But that may not be enough to overcome some previous mistrust to the system.
Quote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 03:34:27 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 03:06:14 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 03:02:11 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 02:51:29 PMQuote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2025, 01:55:05 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on February 14, 2025, 09:42:36 AMI pay pretty much everything with cash, with two exceptions:
1. Impossible, like Uber rides or my student loans. (Student loans use account number and routing number to avoid credit card fees.)
2. Several hundred or higher. For example, when I get a new MacBook Pro or iPhone (only when my old one dies, I'm not one to replace frequently), I use my card for that.
I regularly go to the bank in-person to withdraw $400, or if I know I'm making a large purchase immediately after, $500 or $600. I typically get the following:
- If I'm making a $100+ payment soon, one $100. For example, all you can eat sushi for three people and my choir semester fee are both between $100 and $200.
- 2 $50s, 3 if I know I'll be spending one the same day, such as on groceries
- About 7 $20s
- About 9 $10s
- About 9 $5s. These three vary slightly based on how many of each are currently in my wallet.
- 25 $1s. The bank groups bills in stacks of 25, so it's easy for them. I often use them all before having to go to the bank again.
- If I don't have enough, a roll of quarters. I use more quarters than I receive, although I estimate I get a roll maybe once every six months.
- If I don't have any, 5 $2s (if they have any, which they do about 1/4 of the time), a roll of dollar coins, or a roll of half dollars. These are only used for tips at restaurants, and only if the total comes to certain numbers (e.g. the total post-tip has to end in 2 or 7 for me to use a $2).
Interestingly, one time I was at the sushi place, someone nearby noticed my mom's car had a paint issue, and he said he would do it for about $475, cash only. I had just stocked up with $600, so I surprisingly had enough.
TL;DR I regularly use $50s, I use $100s for special occasions, and I would have used a $500 or a hypothetical $200 if it existed exactly once.
We have quite a few * LEGAL * direct immigrants from places where distrust of banks is a very real part of their 'old country' culture. As such, $50s arenow pretty common everyday items to them. When they order a delivered supper for the family, EXPECT a $50 as payment.
Mike
Mike
Specifying their immigration status is completely unnecessary.
It is, because banking system is different in different countries, so is trust to that system. Same can be told about political, law enforcement, etc.
So people who grew in a different country can, and will, view things differently than even those who do not share common perception yet grew up within the same system.
You're missing the point. Whether the immigrants mgk is referring to came here legally or not changes nothing about the point being made. Why did that need to be specified?
Because someone without solid legal standing will have problems with bank system - starting from SSN and credit check while opening an account.
Immigrant with proper paperwork can get a real SSN, pass all checks and get a fully legal account in most banks (BoA may be different, but whatever). But that may not be enough to overcome some previous mistrust to the system.
Yes, but why is the distinction necessary when the point being made is about culture?
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 03:38:38 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 03:34:27 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 03:06:14 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 03:02:11 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 02:51:29 PMQuote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2025, 01:55:05 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on February 14, 2025, 09:42:36 AMI pay pretty much everything with cash, with two exceptions:
1. Impossible, like Uber rides or my student loans. (Student loans use account number and routing number to avoid credit card fees.)
2. Several hundred or higher. For example, when I get a new MacBook Pro or iPhone (only when my old one dies, I'm not one to replace frequently), I use my card for that.
I regularly go to the bank in-person to withdraw $400, or if I know I'm making a large purchase immediately after, $500 or $600. I typically get the following:
- If I'm making a $100+ payment soon, one $100. For example, all you can eat sushi for three people and my choir semester fee are both between $100 and $200.
- 2 $50s, 3 if I know I'll be spending one the same day, such as on groceries
- About 7 $20s
- About 9 $10s
- About 9 $5s. These three vary slightly based on how many of each are currently in my wallet.
- 25 $1s. The bank groups bills in stacks of 25, so it's easy for them. I often use them all before having to go to the bank again.
- If I don't have enough, a roll of quarters. I use more quarters than I receive, although I estimate I get a roll maybe once every six months.
- If I don't have any, 5 $2s (if they have any, which they do about 1/4 of the time), a roll of dollar coins, or a roll of half dollars. These are only used for tips at restaurants, and only if the total comes to certain numbers (e.g. the total post-tip has to end in 2 or 7 for me to use a $2).
Interestingly, one time I was at the sushi place, someone nearby noticed my mom's car had a paint issue, and he said he would do it for about $475, cash only. I had just stocked up with $600, so I surprisingly had enough.
TL;DR I regularly use $50s, I use $100s for special occasions, and I would have used a $500 or a hypothetical $200 if it existed exactly once.
We have quite a few * LEGAL * direct immigrants from places where distrust of banks is a very real part of their 'old country' culture. As such, $50s arenow pretty common everyday items to them. When they order a delivered supper for the family, EXPECT a $50 as payment.
Mike
Mike
Specifying their immigration status is completely unnecessary.
It is, because banking system is different in different countries, so is trust to that system. Same can be told about political, law enforcement, etc.
So people who grew in a different country can, and will, view things differently than even those who do not share common perception yet grew up within the same system.
You're missing the point. Whether the immigrants mgk is referring to came here legally or not changes nothing about the point being made. Why did that need to be specified?
Because someone without solid legal standing will have problems with bank system - starting from SSN and credit check while opening an account.
Immigrant with proper paperwork can get a real SSN, pass all checks and get a fully legal account in most banks (BoA may be different, but whatever). But that may not be enough to overcome some previous mistrust to the system.
Yes, but why is the distinction necessary when the point being made is about culture?
Try to read things again slowly. 8 think it makes perfect sense
While we are at this, may I ask if your are a US citizen by birth?
Quote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 03:42:07 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 03:38:38 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 03:34:27 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 03:06:14 PMQuote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 03:02:11 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 02:51:29 PMQuote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2025, 01:55:05 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on February 14, 2025, 09:42:36 AMI pay pretty much everything with cash, with two exceptions:
1. Impossible, like Uber rides or my student loans. (Student loans use account number and routing number to avoid credit card fees.)
2. Several hundred or higher. For example, when I get a new MacBook Pro or iPhone (only when my old one dies, I'm not one to replace frequently), I use my card for that.
I regularly go to the bank in-person to withdraw $400, or if I know I'm making a large purchase immediately after, $500 or $600. I typically get the following:
- If I'm making a $100+ payment soon, one $100. For example, all you can eat sushi for three people and my choir semester fee are both between $100 and $200.
- 2 $50s, 3 if I know I'll be spending one the same day, such as on groceries
- About 7 $20s
- About 9 $10s
- About 9 $5s. These three vary slightly based on how many of each are currently in my wallet.
- 25 $1s. The bank groups bills in stacks of 25, so it's easy for them. I often use them all before having to go to the bank again.
- If I don't have enough, a roll of quarters. I use more quarters than I receive, although I estimate I get a roll maybe once every six months.
- If I don't have any, 5 $2s (if they have any, which they do about 1/4 of the time), a roll of dollar coins, or a roll of half dollars. These are only used for tips at restaurants, and only if the total comes to certain numbers (e.g. the total post-tip has to end in 2 or 7 for me to use a $2).
Interestingly, one time I was at the sushi place, someone nearby noticed my mom's car had a paint issue, and he said he would do it for about $475, cash only. I had just stocked up with $600, so I surprisingly had enough.
TL;DR I regularly use $50s, I use $100s for special occasions, and I would have used a $500 or a hypothetical $200 if it existed exactly once.
We have quite a few * LEGAL * direct immigrants from places where distrust of banks is a very real part of their 'old country' culture. As such, $50s arenow pretty common everyday items to them. When they order a delivered supper for the family, EXPECT a $50 as payment.
Mike
Mike
Specifying their immigration status is completely unnecessary.
It is, because banking system is different in different countries, so is trust to that system. Same can be told about political, law enforcement, etc.
So people who grew in a different country can, and will, view things differently than even those who do not share common perception yet grew up within the same system.
You're missing the point. Whether the immigrants mgk is referring to came here legally or not changes nothing about the point being made. Why did that need to be specified?
Because someone without solid legal standing will have problems with bank system - starting from SSN and credit check while opening an account.
Immigrant with proper paperwork can get a real SSN, pass all checks and get a fully legal account in most banks (BoA may be different, but whatever). But that may not be enough to overcome some previous mistrust to the system.
Yes, but why is the distinction necessary when the point being made is about culture?
Try to read things again slowly. 8 think it makes perfect sense
While we are at this, may I ask if your are a US citizen by birth?
Why is such a bold distinction necessary when, as you admitted, it can be assumed that the immigrants are documented based on the fact that they are able to open bank accounts in their name?
If you're implying that I may be an undocumented immigrant myself, go ahead and call ICE on me. :-D
Let's end this discussion and go back to a previous one. mgk920 mentioned a $5 coin. I believe the only countries that have one are Switzerland (5 francs) and Japan (500 yen), and the latter is closer to $4 after a change in exchange rate. Countries with dollars weaker than ours, like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, do not have anything labeled $5. (I believe Singapore does, but I'm not sure if it's in common use.)
While I'm not entirely opposed to the idea myself, we would definitely be leading rather than following if we introduced a $5 coin.
Quote from: hotdogPi on February 16, 2025, 04:12:29 PMLet's end this discussion and go back to a previous one. mgk920 mentioned a $5 coin. I believe the only countries that have one are Switzerland (5 francs) and Japan (500 yen), and the latter is closer to $4 after a change in exchange rate. Countries with dollars weaker than ours, like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, do not have anything labeled $5. (I believe Singapore does, but I'm not sure if it's in common use.)
While I'm not entirely opposed to the idea myself, we would definitely be leading rather than following if we introduced a $5 coin.
It would be re-introducing a coin that actually has a significant amount of purchasing power; 50¢ in 1965 had the same purchasing power as $5 today.
Quote from: hotdogPi on February 16, 2025, 04:12:29 PMLet's end this discussion and go back to a previous one. mgk920 mentioned a $5 coin. I believe the only countries that have one are Switzerland (5 francs) and Japan (500 yen), and the latter is closer to $4 after a change in exchange rate. Countries with dollars weaker than ours, like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, do not have anything labeled $5. (I believe Singapore does, but I'm not sure if it's in common use.)
While I'm not entirely opposed to the idea myself, we would definitely be leading rather than following if we introduced a $5 coin.
May I ask how many people here have a coin compartment in the wallet or otherwise have significant number of coins on them on a regular basis?
I do have some coins in the car for a few parking meters which still take coins and may grab some if going to the dollar store, but otherwise it may be a stray coin or two in a pocket, if that
I don't think introducing coins would go nicely with most people. Moreso if those are higher value ones.
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 04:28:36 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on February 16, 2025, 04:12:29 PMLet's end this discussion and go back to a previous one. mgk920 mentioned a $5 coin. I believe the only countries that have one are Switzerland (5 francs) and Japan (500 yen), and the latter is closer to $4 after a change in exchange rate. Countries with dollars weaker than ours, like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, do not have anything labeled $5. (I believe Singapore does, but I'm not sure if it's in common use.)
While I'm not entirely opposed to the idea myself, we would definitely be leading rather than following if we introduced a $5 coin.
It would be re-introducing a coin that actually has a significant amount of purchasing power; 50¢ in 1965 had the same purchasing power as $5 today.
That is really a poor justification considering how people utilize coins and paper money compared to 1965. Furthermore, and this was said way upthread, but do we really want to sub out paper bills for coins? I can see the $1. But the $5?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 16, 2025, 05:04:07 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 16, 2025, 04:28:36 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on February 16, 2025, 04:12:29 PMLet's end this discussion and go back to a previous one. mgk920 mentioned a $5 coin. I believe the only countries that have one are Switzerland (5 francs) and Japan (500 yen), and the latter is closer to $4 after a change in exchange rate. Countries with dollars weaker than ours, like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, do not have anything labeled $5. (I believe Singapore does, but I'm not sure if it's in common use.)
While I'm not entirely opposed to the idea myself, we would definitely be leading rather than following if we introduced a $5 coin.
It would be re-introducing a coin that actually has a significant amount of purchasing power; 50¢ in 1965 had the same purchasing power as $5 today.
That is really a poor justification considering how people utilize coins and paper money compared to 1965. Furthermore, and this was said way upthread, but do we really want to sub out paper bills for coins? I can see the $1. But the $5?
I'm just saying I might be inclined to keep a few more coins in my pocket if I didn't need 10 of them to purchase literally anything.
I saw a news story about 15 years ago where the US Mints were required to create a certain amount of $1.00 Presidental-themed Coins -- similar to when they created a certain amount of State-themed Quarters.
Like the state coins, they minted x-amount of dollar coins for each president's likeness and had coins for each president up to that point.
The story made light that most, if not all of these gold-colored coins are still sitting in vaults collecting dust, because there is/was no mandate to get them out into circulation.
So as far as I know, we have millions of uncirculated dollar coins that could replace the paper notes overnight, but no one in the government is in any hurry to use them as a start to officially phase out the $1.00 bills.
You can thank retailers for that, because of the logistics they would have to incur to convert their cash register tills, and vending/change-making machines.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 16, 2025, 06:45:43 PMI saw a news story about 15 years ago where the US Mints were required to create a certain amount of $1.00 Presidental-themed Coins -- similar to when they created a certain amount of State-themed Quarters.
Like the state coins, they minted x-amount of dollar coins for each president's likeness and had coins for each president up to that point.
The story made light that most, if not all of these gold-colored coins are still sitting in vaults collecting dust, because there is/was no mandate to get them out into circulation.
So as far as I know, we have millions of uncirculated dollar coins that could replace the paper notes overnight, but no one in the government is in any hurry to use them as a start to officially phase out the $1.00 bills.
You can thank retailers for that, because of the logistics they would have to incur to convert their cash register tills, and vending/change-making machines.
Vending and change making machines are probably the only places where I saw $1 coins.
^^ But only the most modern equipment are equipped to accept and distribute dollar coins as change. Converting some of the older machines or purchasing new machines is cost prohibitive for many businesses.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 16, 2025, 06:54:44 PM^^ But only the most modern equipment are equipped to accept and distribute dollar coins as change. Converting some of the older machines or purchasing new machines is cost prohibitive for many businesses.
Given that the big drive for dollar coins was something like 15 years ago, "newest" isn't the best word to use ..
Quote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 07:38:12 PMQuote from: thenetwork on February 16, 2025, 06:54:44 PM^^ But only the most modern equipment are equipped to accept and distribute dollar coins as change. Converting some of the older machines or purchasing new machines is cost prohibitive for many businesses.
Given that the big drive for dollar coins was something like 15 years ago, "newest" isn't the best word to use ..
I believe it was closer to 25 years ago. Scary to realize that, but 2000 was 25 years ago.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 16, 2025, 02:19:00 PMI don't think we need a $2 anything. $1 and $5, whether a bill or coin, is fine.
Try having a large quantity of $2s on you sometime. The convenience is significant—you never need more than a single $1 in any transaction. And likewise you never need more than two $2s. The efficiency is fantastic.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 16, 2025, 08:38:03 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 16, 2025, 02:19:00 PMI don't think we need a $2 anything. $1 and $5, whether a bill or coin, is fine.
Try having a large quantity of $2s on you sometime. The convenience is significant—you never need more than a single $1 in any transaction. And likewise you never need more than two $2s. The efficiency is fantastic.
...or just use a credit card and not have to worry about cash all that often...
Quote from: Rothman on February 16, 2025, 10:12:18 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 16, 2025, 08:38:03 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 16, 2025, 02:19:00 PMI don't think we need a $2 anything. $1 and $5, whether a bill or coin, is fine.
Try having a large quantity of $2s on you sometime. The convenience is significant—you never need more than a single $1 in any transaction. And likewise you never need more than two $2s. The efficiency is fantastic.
...or just use a credit card and not have to worry about cash all that often...
That's just boring, though.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 16, 2025, 08:38:03 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 16, 2025, 02:19:00 PMI don't think we need a $2 anything. $1 and $5, whether a bill or coin, is fine.
Try having a large quantity of $2s on you sometime. The convenience is significant—you never need more than a single $1 in any transaction. And likewise you never need more than two $2s. The efficiency is fantastic.
The challenge, of course, is getting them.
I generally ask for them on those rare occasions when I physically go into a bank branch.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 16, 2025, 06:45:43 PMYou can thank retailers for that, because of the logistics they would have to incur to convert their cash register tills
Get rid of pennies, and a till spot opens up for dollar coins. Done.
Quote from: Road Hog on February 14, 2025, 09:12:44 PMTrying to figure how eliminating pennies and nickels but keeping dimes and quarters would make change easier. The one hole in that theory is if you get 5¢ or 15¢ back in change, that would mean either you or the store are getting shorted. Every other combination involving a 5 or 0 would be covered.
I had not considered this. As a thought experiment, if we got rid of pennies and nickels, then...
If an item is priced at $4.96 and I pay with a $5 bill, then the change theoretically due me would be 4¢. But the argument is simply that 4¢ rounds down to zero, and I shouldn't be due any change. This sounds like it should all work out fine in the wash, with half the transactions rounding up and other half rounding down.
However, if I pay for that same item with a $10 bill, then the change theoretically due me would be $5.04 instead. At first glance, you might think it makes sense to get an even $5 back as change. But I'd insist to be paid with $4 of whatever denomination, then three quarters and three dimes: $5.05 back as change instead of $5.00 even.
Quote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 04:35:22 PMMay I ask how many people here have a coin compartment in the wallet or otherwise have significant number of coins on them on a regular basis?
I do have some coins in the car for a few parking meters which still take coins and may grab some if going to the dollar store, but otherwise it may be a stray coin or two in a pocket, if that
I keep a few coins in the car. At least a quarter, to get the shopping cart at Aldi, plus random other coins to use for parking meters or whatever. Also so that, if I really need a caffeinated soda to wake me up at work, I can scrounge enough change to feed the vending machine.
As for coins in my pocket, I definitely grab a bunch any time I need to take the bus somewhere. But otherwise I don't carry any.
However, anecdotally... In Mexico, the lowest paper denomination is 20 MXN (equivalent to 1 USD). However, there is also a 10 MXN coin that is
much more widely circulated than the US half-dollar. I find it more convenient, not less, to use all coins for a small purchase such as a bottle of soda at the gas station. Rather than pull out both my wallet and some coins from my pocket, I'd rather just grab the coins from my pocket and use that. That is to say, I find Mexico's equivalent of two half-dollar coins to be more convenient than Mexico's equivalent of a dollar bill. 20 MXN coins (equivalent to US dollar coins) are more rarely encountered, but I have certainly found them convenient for the same reason: just pull the coins out of my pocket and use that, no wallet fiddling required. Theoretically, there are also 50 MXN and 100 MXN coins (2.50 USD and 5 USD) in circulation, but I doubt I'll ever see any of them in real life.
Quote from: kalvado on February 16, 2025, 04:35:22 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on February 16, 2025, 04:12:29 PMLet's end this discussion and go back to a previous one. mgk920 mentioned a $5 coin. I believe the only countries that have one are Switzerland (5 francs) and Japan (500 yen), and the latter is closer to $4 after a change in exchange rate. Countries with dollars weaker than ours, like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, do not have anything labeled $5. (I believe Singapore does, but I'm not sure if it's in common use.)
While I'm not entirely opposed to the idea myself, we would definitely be leading rather than following if we introduced a $5 coin.
May I ask how many people here have a coin compartment in the wallet or otherwise have significant number of coins on them on a regular basis?
I do have some coins in the car for a few parking meters which still take coins and may grab some if going to the dollar store, but otherwise it may be a stray coin or two in a pocket, if that
I don't think introducing coins would go nicely with most people. Moreso if those are higher value ones.
I would offer the following slate:
Coins-
- 25¢
- $1
- $2
- $5
banknotes-
- $10
- $20
- $50
( up )
Mike
Quote from: Rothman on February 16, 2025, 10:12:18 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 16, 2025, 08:38:03 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 16, 2025, 02:19:00 PMI don't think we need a $2 anything. $1 and $5, whether a bill or coin, is fine.
Try having a large quantity of $2s on you sometime. The convenience is significant—you never need more than a single $1 in any transaction. And likewise you never need more than two $2s. The efficiency is fantastic.
...or just use a credit card and not have to worry about cash all that often...
No, I'm in no mood to enrich the credit card companies.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on February 17, 2025, 01:14:41 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 16, 2025, 10:12:18 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 16, 2025, 08:38:03 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 16, 2025, 02:19:00 PMI don't think we need a $2 anything. $1 and $5, whether a bill or coin, is fine.
Try having a large quantity of $2s on you sometime. The convenience is significant—you never need more than a single $1 in any transaction. And likewise you never need more than two $2s. The efficiency is fantastic.
...or just use a credit card and not have to worry about cash all that often...
No, I'm in no mood to enrich the credit card companies.
Mike
All banking incurs costs...
Pennies can go. As much as I hate change (and I don't mean coins), I made peace with this when I realized that pennies are treated as garbage. I stopped picking them up years ago. There are billions of pennies out there, so there doesn't need to be a shortage of them. However, they're of so little value, people throw them in buckets rather than carry them around, so they'd probably dry up quickly. I would dump mine at the bank after keeping a few as mementos.
Prices don't need to change. Even if the minimum denomination is 5 cents, that applies only to the sales total, not to each individual item. Walmart can still charge $4.83 and everyone else can charge $4.99, and once sales taxes are added it can be rounded to the nearest nickel. We already round to the penny with sales taxes, and gasoline is actually priced in fractions of a penny. This rounding would be nothing new.
Nickels can't go yet. Until we round to a single decimal, and write dollar amounts like $2.4 and round to tenths of dollars, we need a coin for a twentieth of a dollar. Quarters will have to go when nickels do, because each quarter has a nickel built into it. I see quarters being replaced with half dollars and dimes being the new pennies, five to make the next higher coin. Quarters might need to go before the nickels do, so people can trade them in for halvsies before we convert to a single decimal. We need to have a shortage of quarters before we have a shortage of nickels to make change from them. I would start withdrawing quarters as they come into banks but keep nickels in circulation since they're still needed. A pair of either would still be worth an even amount in the new system. Ten pennies would still be worth ten cents, but they'd go into the odd coin cup and be withdrawn once they get to the bank.
Quote from: wxfree on February 17, 2025, 01:36:56 PMUntil we round to a single decimal, and write dollar amounts like $2.4 and round to tenths of dollars, we need a coin for a twentieth of a dollar.
I don't see why prices couldn't continue to be written as $2.40.
In Mexico, while 5 MXN coins are still technically legal tender, they haven't been minted in more than twenty years, and I'm not sure I've even seen one in real life. All stores round prices to the nearest 10¢ at the smallest, with many rounding to the nearest 50¢. Yet cash register prices still ring up to $x.xx with no problem.
Quote from: kphoger on February 17, 2025, 02:10:55 PMQuote from: wxfree on February 17, 2025, 01:36:56 PMUntil we round to a single decimal, and write dollar amounts like $2.4 and round to tenths of dollars, we need a coin for a twentieth of a dollar.
I don't see why prices couldn't continue to be written as $2.40.
In Mexico, while 5 MXN coins are still technically legal tender, they haven't been minted in more than twenty years, and I'm not sure I've even seen one in real life. All stores round prices to the nearest 10¢ at the smallest, with many rounding to the nearest 50¢. Yet cash register prices still ring up to $x.xx with no problem.
There's no reason you can't, but there would be no reason to continue to do so. When I write, or type, $2.40 I put it as $2.4. I could just as legitimately write it as $2.400000. People often use two decimals when one is enough, and even when none are needed. Habits are real, but I don't like to write without intent or follow a habit without thinking. Really, my point is that transaction amounts would be writable with, even if not written with, a single decimal space. My bigger point is that nickels are more needed than quarters, even though they're smaller. We need larger coins to be a value replaceable with smaller coins. I would withdraw quarters and convert to halvsies (I want to get that term started) at about the same time we stop or slow down production of nickels, but keep nickels going out from banks for a while after that to make change. At a later point we no longer need a second decimal space, although its use would be just as correct.
If we keep using two spaces, maybe gasoline prices would be set in whole cents, so that even though it would still be an amount for which there are no coins made, it would look like a normal amount when written.
Quote from: wxfree on February 17, 2025, 02:23:23 PMWhen I write, or type, $2.40 I put it as $2.4.
$ 2
2/
5
Quote from: mgk920 on February 17, 2025, 01:14:41 PMQuote from: Rothman on February 16, 2025, 10:12:18 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on February 16, 2025, 08:38:03 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on February 16, 2025, 02:19:00 PMI don't think we need a $2 anything. $1 and $5, whether a bill or coin, is fine.
Try having a large quantity of $2s on you sometime. The convenience is significant—you never need more than a single $1 in any transaction. And likewise you never need more than two $2s. The efficiency is fantastic.
...or just use a credit card and not have to worry about cash all that often...
No, I'm in no mood to enrich the credit card companies.
Mike
Armored car companies thank you for your choice!
Quote from: GaryV on February 17, 2025, 07:59:03 AMQuote from: thenetwork on February 16, 2025, 06:45:43 PMYou can thank retailers for that, because of the logistics they would have to incur to convert their cash register tills
Get rid of pennies, and a till spot opens up for dollar coins. Done.
Better yet...rid the pennies "and" the $1.00 bills and have an even LARGER single till to stash dollar coins!!!
Quote from: SP Cook on February 16, 2025, 02:35:12 PMFlood the market with 50 cent pieces, combined with a PR campaign that points out they are not collectable.
TBQH, I wouldn't be too surprised if part of the reason why the half-dollar never took off was because the largest coin (in terms of size, ignoring value) most things like vending machines and parking meters took was, and still is, the quarter.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 17, 2025, 08:20:08 PMQuote from: SP Cook on February 16, 2025, 02:35:12 PMFlood the market with 50 cent pieces, combined with a PR campaign that points out they are not collectable.
TBQH, I wouldn't be too surprised if part of the reason why the half-dollar never took off was because the largest coin (in terms of size, ignoring value) most things like vending machines and parking meters took was, and still is, the quarter.
It actually did take off, though. It was widely circulated until the 1960s.
What caused it to disappear was that it was the last coin to have the silver content removed from it, combined with it having Kennedy's face put on it soon after his death (before that it had Ben Franklin on it). Both of those caused people to remove them from circulation en masse, and by the time the Mint caught back up everyone was used to just using two quarters for everything.
Half-dollars are still widely circulated in Las Vegas, where they're used for blackjack payouts (a proper 3:2 payout for a blackjack on a $5 bet is $7.50). In other states, they use 50¢ chips, but Vegas figured out it was cheaper to just use the already-existing coins.
CGP Grey released a video on this topic today. Of note for us, one of the bills he made when talking about Congress and its role in the situation was "add leading zeros on interstate roadsigns" (at 3:21).