Reportedly this new bridge is still in design phase. The preferred ROW was announced several years ago and there hasn't been a community meeting or email update since 2020.
https://us51bridge.com/project-overview
The KYDOT plan only carries money for this bridge until 2028 (as does IDOT), and per its inspection report, the current bridge is not supposed to go past 2029 in use......so I was curious of anyone knows what the hang up might be?
The only thing I can come up with is the staffing issues at IDOT that are delaying several projects in the hopper. The I-69 bridge at Evansville with INDOT seems to be moving at a faster clip.
I wonder if the US 60 Connectivity Study (https://us60connectivitystudy.com/) has anything to do with the lack of updates.
I would say "yes" just by reading the goal statement of the US 60 Study.
"The Kentucky Transportation Cabinet's US 60 Connectivity Study (Item 1-80250) is a regional project to study an alternative route and potential new bridge crossing connecting Western Kentucky and Southern Illinois. This study is being conducted by KYTC to determine if a new corridor and river crossing would offer more long-term value to the Commonwealth and traveling public than the proposed US 51 Bridge Replacement (Item No. 1-1140) between Wickliffe, Ky., and Cairo, Il."
Thanks for sharing, I was unaware of this study. I have always looked at Missouri for these kinds of research.
I guess not.
"Currently, KYTC and its US 51 Bridge Replacement project team are planning for design and land acquisition that would be needed to construct a new US 51 bridge at Cairo. The US 60 Connectivity Study will run in parallel to planning and design for the US 51 Bridge Replacement project. Once completed, KYTC will determine which project should be advanced to final design and construction."
Quote from: seicer on May 06, 2024, 04:56:50 PMI wonder if the US 60 Connectivity Study (https://us60connectivitystudy.com/) has anything to do with the lack of updates.
If they are going to study new corridors for better connectivity they should include a few alternatives with direct crossings to Missouri, with at least one south of Wickliffe.
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 06, 2024, 10:40:16 PMQuote from: seicer on May 06, 2024, 04:56:50 PMI wonder if the US 60 Connectivity Study (https://us60connectivitystudy.com/) has anything to do with the lack of updates.
If they are going to study new corridors for better connectivity they should include a few alternatives with direct crossings to Missouri, with at least one south of Wickliffe.
I thought about that myself, but I don't think you'd really get much benefit if you routed it south of Wickliffe, especially considering you'd be crossing the BP-NM Floodway on the Missouri side. Good luck getting the Corps of Engineers to go along with that.
I'm not even really sure the value aspect is there in the corridors they're actively looking at. The 2023 cost estimates of $1.2B-1.3B are more than triple that of the 51 bridge replacement, which I think comes in around $382.5 million.
The US 60 corridor would benefit from being tied into the new two-lane (four-lane ultimate) Kevil-La Center alignment. Traffic counts decline the further west of Paducah you travel (11,600 near Paducah, 4,800 west of Kevil, 3,000 north of Wickliffe) before increasing again north of Wickliffe (5,300) towards the Ohio River bridge. Of that, 27% of traffic is trucks.
KYTC has more recently reconstructed the pavement of US 51/US 60 north of Wickliffe. I wish it had provisions for guardrails and other safety improvements, but it's adequate for the traffic it has now.
US60 KYDOT Study Area
(https://lbn7df.p3cdn1.secureserver.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/US-60_maps_no-corridors_map-1024x791.png)
US51 Original Study Area
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53705654520_e09da0e310_c.jpg)
US51 Preferred ROW
(https://us51bridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Project_Location_2021_11_12-1.jpg)
KYDOT planning to take over Illinois...
Quote from: Rothman on May 07, 2024, 11:49:42 AMKYDOT planning to take over Illinois...
The problem with rational highway planning in this region is that Illinois is trying to keep the City of Cairo relevant.
They are still trying to get an intermodal center built there, but the local port authority spent all of the money on things they weren't supposed to, so the state stopped the money.
and I quote....
"Osman also said in that letter that the administration had become deeply concerned that more than half of the funds spent by the state up to that point had been used for "consulting, project and grant management, and development expertise services."
"In the future, state funds should be used for the engineering, site readiness, and environmental work necessary to complete the development of the port terminal," he wrote. "Minimal funds may be used for consultation services."Illinois has replaced the local port authority director, so hopefully the nearly $4 million in new funds can be used properly.
If the existing things (train bridge, historical mounds and wildlife refuge) in the way were no issue (it is a big issue), I could see US 60 being tied into I-57 at Illinois 3 (Exit 1). The intersection of US 51, IL 3 and IL 37 would have to be redone if the bridge was made the priority route.
Quote from: edwaleni on May 07, 2024, 12:36:09 PMQuote from: Rothman on May 07, 2024, 11:49:42 AMKYDOT planning to take over Illinois...
The problem with rational highway planning in this region is that Illinois is trying to keep the City of Cairo relevant.
They are still trying to get an intermodal center built there, but the local port authority spent all of the money on things they weren't supposed to, so the state stopped the money.
and I quote....
"Osman also said in that letter that the administration had become deeply concerned that more than half of the funds spent by the state up to that point had been used for "consulting, project and grant management, and development expertise services."
"In the future, state funds should be used for the engineering, site readiness, and environmental work necessary to complete the development of the port terminal," he wrote. "Minimal funds may be used for consultation services."
Illinois has replaced the local port authority director, so hopefully the nearly $4 million in new funds can be used properly.
I say this as respectfully as possible. If the state of Illinois wanted to keep the city of Cairo relevant, it would work with the federal government in buying EVERYONE out in Cairo, tearing down every structure except the most historic ones (Magnolia Manor, the federal post office, some of the old churches, etc), and turning the city into a state or national historic park. Specifically, one that tells the incredibly nasty racial and social history of the city.
And frankly, considering the $382.5 million cost for the US 51 bridge replacement, and the $1.2 billion cost for a US60 corridor buildup, buying out Cairo may be more cost effective. When you look at Cairo's Wikipedia page, you realize that the median age of its citizens rose by 10.5 years from 2010-2020. That...takes some doing. In this case, it was from emptying out and destroying dilapidated public housing in the city, which took away a large chunk of the city's young people. When one starts doing that....
Given the terminals still operating in Cairo, I find the idea of "buying it out" a bit far-fetched.
Not mentioning the old Customs House was also an interesting omission.
On the other hand, there are plenty of barge terminals along the rivers that are not right in towns already, so it's not like those facilities are dependent on there being a community right there.
As long as someone is willing to keep paying for upkeep of levees, might as well let "Cay-ro" die a natural death rather than ruffle feathers by having the government put it out of its misery. Some future flood will do that for you if you wait long enough. :-P
If anyone is interested, I have a writeup and photo gallery of Cairo at my site, Abandoned: https://abandonedonline.net/location/cairo/
The first time I drove on US 51 in Cairo about 5 years ago was driving through one of the most depressing communities I have ever encountered. Like Gary, Indiana depressing. I was fortunate to find a decent BBQ place (Shemwell's BBQ). It was the only restaurant I remember seeing open.
Cairo is positioned in a spot that should be a vibrant city. Right at the junction of the Mississippi and Ohio. Its history is troubled and there is barely a city left.
I don't live that far away but really isn't much reason to head down that way very often, unfortunately
As far as a new bridge, if Missouri and Illinois are not going to replace the Mississippi River bridge at the river confluence, the Ohio River bridge should probably be further north closer to the I-57/US 51/IL 3/IL 37 intersections, and tie more directly into the interstate for the interstate bridge to Missouri. That appears to be the US 60 corridor study referenced here
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 08, 2024, 12:30:47 PMThe first time I drove on US 51 in Cairo about 5 years ago was driving through one of the most depressing communities I have ever encountered. Like Gary, Indiana depressing. I was fortunate to find a decent BBQ place (Shemwell's BBQ). It was the only restaurant I remember seeing open.
Shemwell's is alive and well and still serving up some great BBQ.
However, Cairo has no grocery store. None.
People have to drive to Mounds (north) or cross the bridge to Wickliffe (south) or rely on the 2 food pantry services in town.
I don't know. Seems there are places that are more depressing than Cairo out there. New Straitsville, OH, comes to mind.
Something very strange is going on in Cairo.
Even in the poorest towns, I can pull up real estate for sale, taxing information for that real estate, etc.
But in Cairo, there are only 2 houses for sale. There is no county tax information available. Just nice pictures. I found a few vacant agricultural lots for sale outside of town, but oddly, none of all the vacant lots in Cairo are for sale.(if I believe this)
If I was a developer, anticipating a new intermodal port/terminal to be built nearby (or a new bridge), I would want to know if there are any investment opportunities for housing, hotels, retail....even reconstruction of historic buildings that qualify for grants.
Just my humble opinion, but if this town wants to "turn it around" they need to make themselves and their information more accessible. Has the State of Illinois been buying up all the vacant land?
I thought FEMA was moving Cairo residents uphill to New City, but Wikipedia is silent on that topic.
Quote from: edwaleni on May 08, 2024, 03:26:55 PMQuote from: hobsini2 on May 08, 2024, 12:30:47 PMThe first time I drove on US 51 in Cairo about 5 years ago was driving through one of the most depressing communities I have ever encountered. Like Gary, Indiana depressing. I was fortunate to find a decent BBQ place (Shemwell's BBQ). It was the only restaurant I remember seeing open.
Shemwell's is alive and well and still serving up some great BBQ.
However, Cairo has no grocery store. None.
People have to drive to Mounds (north) or cross the bridge to Wickliffe (south) or rely on the 2 food pantry services in town.
There is actually a grocery store that opened about a year ago. It's called Rise Community Market and it is a co-op. https://risecommunitymarket.com/
I'm still hopeful that Cairo has some sort of future. There is a small, committed core of people who are trying. But the rot is so entrenched, it's hard to imagine the future extends out all that far.
https://www.propublica.org/article/hud-demolishes-public-housing-displaces-residents-cairo
It appears the USG, specifically HUD, is getting out of town. After buying out many of the shanty houses of the poor and putting them in a high rise, they just announced they are moving them all out 30 miles away and tearing the high rises down. The mayor was surprised by the decision.
Like I said, something don't seem right.
The former high school sits vacant. The former junior high with a fairly new gym added on is a community center. The grade school is brand new and the junior and high school kids are up in a new building north of town. So its clear the school district still functions, they keep building new buildings!
So if the State is trying to save the town, why does the opposite seem to be in effect?
Quote from: Rothman on May 08, 2024, 03:36:52 PMI don't know. Seems there are places that are more depressing than Cairo out there. New Straitsville, OH, comes to mind.
Never been there so I would have to take your word for it.
Quote from: Rothman on May 08, 2024, 03:36:52 PMI don't know. Seems there are places that are more depressing than Cairo out there. New Straitsville, OH, comes to mind.
While working at an event in Paducah, I got to have a long conversation with a Publix executive who works remotely. He moved his family from Florida to... Cairo because it was "quiet" and had "good schools" for his son. I hope it works out for his family but that's a huge cultural shock.
Quote from: seicer on May 08, 2024, 07:25:40 PMQuote from: Rothman on May 08, 2024, 03:36:52 PMI don't know. Seems there are places that are more depressing than Cairo out there. New Straitsville, OH, comes to mind.
While working at an event in Paducah, I got to have a long conversation with a Publix executive who works remotely. He moved his family from Florida to... Cairo because it was "quiet" and had "good schools" for his son. I hope it works out for his family but that's a huge cultural shock.
Interesting. They probably live on Washington Ave. It has some of the most beautiful homes from the late 1800's to early 1900's, but just 3 blocks away are some of the most derelict, weed infested homes I have ever seen surrounded by tons of empty lots. it's definitely a town of extremes.
Final Report for U.S. 60 Connectivity Study Recommends Advancing U.S. 51 Bridge Replacement ProjectCost, environmental impacts, public feedback inform decision not to advance new corridor project
PADUCAH Ky. (June 13, 2024) – As part of Team Kentucky's commitment to provide safe, environmentally sound and fiscally responsible roadways, the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC) has released the final U.S. 60 Connectivity Study report that recommends advancing the U.S. 51 Bridge Replacement project, which has widespread support, a lower cost and fewer environmental impacts than the U.S. 60 corridor project.
The U.S. 60 Connectivity Study was a more than yearlong, comprehensive evaluation that examined the feasibility of constructing a new U.S. 60 corridor and Ohio River bridge crossing between Barlow, Kentucky, and Interstate Highway 57 near Future City, Illinois. The study's goal was to determine if the new U.S. 60 corridor and a relocated river crossing would offer more long-term value to the commonwealth and the traveling public than the proposed U.S. 51 Bridge Replacement project at Cairo, Illinois.
"We know that the existing U.S. 51 bridge is nearing the end of its useful life, and we want to find the best solution to construct a new Ohio River crossing for the region," said Kyle Poat, Chief District Engineer, KYTC District 1. "This study was conducted as part of our duty to Kentuckians, to examine the potential benefits and impacts of a new route and crossing — and the findings are clear: The cost and environmental impacts of a new U.S. 60 corridor and crossing outweigh the benefits."
The U.S. 60 Connectivity Study launched in early 2023 and included thorough cost, environmental, socioeconomic and traffic analysis. Public involvement along with local, state and national resource agency coordination and input were also important components to the study that helped inform a final recommendation. Public meetings were held in LaCenter, Kentucky and Cairo, Illinois, to gather public feedback, followed by a monthlong comment period.
Most areas of analysis and feedback did not support advancing the project, including:
- Cost: It would cost an estimated $1.3 billion to construct the U.S. 60 Connectivity Study project versus $450 million to construct the U.S .51 Bridge Replacement project.
- Environmental impacts and timeline: The U.S. 60 Connectivity Study would impact a wide range of wetlands, endangered wildlife and protected public lands that would require the highest level of federally mandated environmental assessment, resulting in a rigorous, multiyear process. Meanwhile, the U.S. 51 Bridge Replacement has already received federal environmental approval and can be ready to proceed with construction upon completion of design work.
- Public feedback: Eighty-three percent of public responses opposed the U.S. 60 Connectivity Study project.
To view the executive summary and complete final report for the U.S. 60 Connectivity Study, visit https://us60connectivitystudy.com/ (https://us60connectivitystudy.com/)
About the existing U.S. 51 Ohio River Bridge
The U.S. 51 Ohio River 'Cairo' Bridge serves as a north-south connector for U.S. 51 and an east-west transportation corridor for U.S. 60 and U.S. Highway 62. The bridge carries about 5,400 vehicles per day between Kentucky and Illinois. About 43% of the traffic is commercial trucks.
The existing Cairo Bridge crosses the Ohio River at navigation mile point 980.4 and carries U.S. 51, U.S. 60, and U.S. 62 traffic across the Ohio River. Opened to traffic in 1938, the Cairo Bridge is the longest bridge in Kentucky and the westernmost bridge over the Ohio River.
The existing bridge needs to be replaced because it is narrow, does not allow oversize or overweight loads, and does not accommodate pedestrians. Sight distance on the bridge is also inadequate, and a tight horizonal curve on the Kentucky approach does not meet current federal or state design standards. A new bridge would meet modern standards for traffic and would offer both roadway safety improvements and enhanced earthquake resistance as the structure lies in the New Madrid fault zone.
83% local opposition is a pretty high margin for not proceeding on the US 60 deal.
Now lets get the new bridge built!
I'm actually impressed that 83% of people would be in agreement! I do wonder, was this because the US 51 bridge already is much further along towards actually happening, or because of some of the other factors mentioned in the study? Was there ever any demand really for a US 60 bridge at all?
I saw the story on the bridge led the 10pm news on WSIL-ABC 3 in Southern Illinois. It was on at a local establishment, but no audio. Knew I could come here and see the details :nod:
Quote from: TheStranger on June 13, 2024, 11:28:22 PMI'm actually impressed that 83% of people would be in agreement! I do wonder, was this because the US 51 bridge already is much further along towards actually happening, or because of some of the other factors mentioned in the study? Was there ever any demand really for a US 60 bridge at all?
From WPSD-NBC 6 Paducah's story, sound like lots of local opposition to moving the bridge upriver
https://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/u-s-60-connectivity-study-gives-communities-clarity-on-where-major-bridge-will-go/article_03084330-29e9-11ef-919e-8f909021b5a2.html
Interestingly, WSIL-ABC 3's piece on the bridge that lead the 10pm news tonight isn't on their website, that I found, anyway
It is a weird TV DMA/market, where 1 network is out of and focuses on Southern Illinois (WSIL ABC 3), one is out of and focuses on Western Kentucky (WPSD NBC 6) and 2 are out of and focus on Southeast Missouri (KBSI FOX 23 and KFVS CBS 12). All cover the whole DMA broadly, but focus their "Local" segments on their DMA subregion
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 14, 2024, 12:00:47 AMQuote from: TheStranger on June 13, 2024, 11:28:22 PMI'm actually impressed that 83% of people would be in agreement! I do wonder, was this because the US 51 bridge already is much further along towards actually happening, or because of some of the other factors mentioned in the study? Was there ever any demand really for a US 60 bridge at all?
From WPSD-NBC 6 Paducah's story, sound like lots of local opposition to moving the bridge upriver
https://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/u-s-60-connectivity-study-gives-communities-clarity-on-where-major-bridge-will-go/article_03084330-29e9-11ef-919e-8f909021b5a2.html
Interestingly, WSIL-ABC 3's piece on the bridge that lead the 10pm news tonight isn't on their website, that I found, anyway
It is a weird TV DMA/market, where 1 network is out of and focuses on Southern Illinois (WSIL ABC 3), one is out of and focuses on Western Kentucky (WPSD NBC 6) and 2 are out of and focus on Southeast Missouri (KBSI FOX 23 and KFVS CBS 12). All cover the whole DMA broadly, but focus their "Local" segments on their DMA subregion
When I lived in southern Illinois, we could pick up Terre Haute, Evansville, St Louis, Cape Girardeau and the PBS stations from SIU-Carbondale.
So it was weird when I would see commercials for shops as far away as Tell City, Indiana in the east, Festus or Sikeston, Missouri in the west.
My neighbor had a ham radio tower and he put a high gain TV antenna on it and would raise it and rotate it and pick up even farther, Indianapolis, Champaign, Springfield and what seem to be a million PBS transponders. Of course this is all in the VHF/UHF analog NTSC days.
Quote from: edwaleni on June 14, 2024, 11:18:04 AMQuote from: ilpt4u on June 14, 2024, 12:00:47 AMQuote from: TheStranger on June 13, 2024, 11:28:22 PMI'm actually impressed that 83% of people would be in agreement! I do wonder, was this because the US 51 bridge already is much further along towards actually happening, or because of some of the other factors mentioned in the study? Was there ever any demand really for a US 60 bridge at all?
From WPSD-NBC 6 Paducah's story, sound like lots of local opposition to moving the bridge upriver
https://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/u-s-60-connectivity-study-gives-communities-clarity-on-where-major-bridge-will-go/article_03084330-29e9-11ef-919e-8f909021b5a2.html
Interestingly, WSIL-ABC 3's piece on the bridge that lead the 10pm news tonight isn't on their website, that I found, anyway
It is a weird TV DMA/market, where 1 network is out of and focuses on Southern Illinois (WSIL ABC 3), one is out of and focuses on Western Kentucky (WPSD NBC 6) and 2 are out of and focus on Southeast Missouri (KBSI FOX 23 and KFVS CBS 12). All cover the whole DMA broadly, but focus their "Local" segments on their DMA subregion
When I lived in southern Illinois, we could pick up Terre Haute, Evansville, St Louis, Cape Girardeau and the PBS stations from SIU-Carbondale.
So it was weird when I would see commercials for shops as far away as Tell City, Indiana in the east, Festus or Sikeston, Missouri in the west.
My neighbor had a ham radio tower and he put a high gain TV antenna on it and would raise it and rotate it and pick up even farther, Indianapolis, Champaign, Springfield and what seem to be a million PBS transponders. Of course this is all in the VHF/UHF analog NTSC days.
It's funny how on a clear night, I can pickup an AM station out of Dallas and one out of Cleveland in Aurora. My Dad said that when we lived in Oshkosh, Wis, he could pickup a jazz station out of Winnipeg.
Sorry for the tangent.
IMO, I think the replacement US 51 bridge will be cable stayed due to the wide width of the Ohio River.
Of course, there's the possibility they might decide on a tied-arch span similar to the upstream I-24 bridge even though I still think the new bridge will be cable-stayed.
Though the most interesting question is how many lanes of traffic will the new US 51 accommodate, 2 lanes or 4 lanes?
4 lanes would be the recommended ideal given that I doubt the US 60/62 Mississippi River bridge will be around much longer without replacement and most traffic on the new bridge would also be using the I-57 bridge.
Since US-51 is only two lanes north and south of the river, why would the bridge by anything more than that?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 17, 2024, 08:47:45 AMSince US-51 is only two lanes north and south of the river, why would the bridge by anything more than that?
US 51 north of Cairo up to I-57 is 4 lanes. It's 2 lanes with a 3rd lane for left turns through Cairo. It is not far fetched to have a 4 lane bridge there and US 60/62 being a 4 laned bridge in the future.
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 17, 2024, 08:53:25 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on June 17, 2024, 08:47:45 AMSince US-51 is only two lanes north and south of the river, why would the bridge by anything more than that?
US 51 north of Cairo up to I-57 is 4 lanes. It's 2 lanes with a 3rd lane for left turns through Cairo. It is not far fetched to have a 4 lane bridge there and US 60/62 being a 4 laned bridge in the future.
Ah. I misremembered from my one time through there.
Thanks.
Traffic counts don't justify four lanes through Cairo or in western Kentucky. The case could be made to "future-proof" the bridge, but it's already been there for many decades without congestion or noticeable gains in traffic. While US 60 is being widened to the east from Paducah, the La Center bypass will be two lanes on a four-lane right-of-way.
The primary major media market for that area of western Kentucky is -- believe it or not -- Nashville.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 17, 2024, 03:03:37 PMThe primary major media market for that area of western Kentucky is -- believe it or not -- Nashville.
I figured it would be Bowling Green by now. They now have affiliates for all four major networks (thanks to digital subchannels), and only get CW and MyTV from Nashville. I think the only portion of SW Kentucky that the Nashville news stations report on is Hopkinsville, and maybe Cadiz, mostly due to close proximity to Clarksville, where I think at least one station has a news bureau.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 17, 2024, 03:03:37 PMThe primary major media market for that area of western Kentucky is -- believe it or not -- Nashville.
The Paducah KY-Cape Girardeau MO-Harrisburg/Carbondale IL DMA/media market does exist
While the SEMO and SoIL parts of the media market associate a bit more with St Louis to the north, at least Paducah and generally that area of Western Kentucky has influences from both STL and Nashville. But Paducah and the "Purchase" area of Western Kentucky is definitely in the aforementioned media market of Paducah-Cape Girardeau-Carbondale
Per IDOT:
The replacement bridge will be a 40-foot-wide bridge featuring 8-foot shoulders. This two-lane bridge will also support bicycle traffic.
The project team is currently evaluating new bridge types as part of design activities. The recommended bridge type will be shared with the public during a meeting expected to occur in May 2024.
Thursday, July 11, 5-8 p.m., CDT
Presentation at 6 p.m., CDT
Cairo High School – 4201 Sycamore Street, Cairo, IL
Join us on Thursday, July 11, at Cairo High School for our next public meeting! At the meeting, we'll announce the selected bridge type, show renderings of the future bridge, and have a Right of Way showing for affected property owners. The meeting will include an Open House with display boards as well as a formal presentation at 6 p.m. Staff from the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet and members of the project team will be available to answer your questions about the project.
Perhaps someone who lives nearby and attend and post the results.
If I'm not working late that day I could swing down to Cairo and check it out
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on June 16, 2024, 06:48:45 PMIMO, I think the replacement US 51 bridge will be cable stayed due to the wide width of the Ohio River.
Of course, there's the possibility they might decide on a tied-arch span similar to the upstream I-24 bridge even though I still think the new bridge will be cable-stayed.
Though the most interesting question is how many lanes of traffic will the new US 51 accommodate, 2 lanes or 4 lanes?
4 lanes would be the recommended ideal given that I doubt the US 60/62 Mississippi River bridge will be around much longer without replacement and most traffic on the new bridge would also be using the I-57 bridge.
As I recall, the goal is to have two 12-foot travel lanes and two 8-foot shoulders, which will accommodate pedestrian/cyclist traffic as well as motor vehicles, as well as oversize loads that cannot use the current bridge.
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on June 18, 2024, 09:36:01 PMQuote from: Lyon Wonder on June 16, 2024, 06:48:45 PMThough the most interesting question is how many lanes of traffic will the new US 51 accommodate, 2 lanes or 4 lanes?
4 lanes would be the recommended ideal given that I doubt the US 60/62 Mississippi River bridge will be around much longer without replacement and most traffic on the new bridge would also be using the I-57 bridge.
As I recall, the goal is to have two 12-foot travel lanes and two 8-foot shoulders, which will accommodate pedestrian/cyclist traffic as well as motor vehicles, as well as oversize loads that cannot use the current bridge.
Until and unless they extend the 4-lane section of US 60 from Paducah farther westward, there's no reason to build a 4-lane bridge here. Full 12' lanes and 8' shoulders will already be a massive improvement over the 10' lanes without shoulders of the current bridge. If/when they need it, they can add a twin span.
The locals already vetoed the 4-lane Interstate-compatible option Kentucky's DOT was looking to deploy a few miles north. The DOT read the room and responded accordingly.
Quote from: JREwing78 on June 19, 2024, 08:13:39 PMQuote from: jnewkirk77 on June 18, 2024, 09:36:01 PMQuote from: Lyon Wonder on June 16, 2024, 06:48:45 PMThough the most interesting question is how many lanes of traffic will the new US 51 accommodate, 2 lanes or 4 lanes?
4 lanes would be the recommended ideal given that I doubt the US 60/62 Mississippi River bridge will be around much longer without replacement and most traffic on the new bridge would also be using the I-57 bridge.
As I recall, the goal is to have two 12-foot travel lanes and two 8-foot shoulders, which will accommodate pedestrian/cyclist traffic as well as motor vehicles, as well as oversize loads that cannot use the current bridge.
Until and unless they extend the 4-lane section of US 60 from Paducah farther westward, there's no reason to build a 4-lane bridge here. Full 12' lanes and 8' shoulders will already be a massive improvement over the 10' lanes without shoulders of the current bridge. If/when they need it, they can add a twin span.
The locals already vetoed the 4-lane Interstate-compatible option Kentucky's DOT was looking to deploy a few miles north. The DOT read the room and responded accordingly.
The veto was driven more by the use of wetlands and driving traffic through towns not really interested in it. If they need a 4 laner, it will have to go south of Wickiffe. But, yes they read the room.
US 60 Connectivity Study (https://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Planning%20Studies%20and%20Reports/1-80250%20-%20US%2060%20Connectivity%20Study%20Final%20Report.pdf)
The US 60 Connectivity Study (KYTC Item Number 1-80250) was initiated by the Kentucky
Transportation Cabinet (KYTC) to examine a more direct corridor between US 60 in western
Kentucky and I-57 in southern Illinois. The study area, shown in Figure ES-1, overlaps with
highly environmentally sensitive areas flanking the Ohio River.
Given the known environmental resources within the study area, this study was completed
as Planning and Environmental Linkages Study (PEL Study),1 which takes a collaborative and
integrated approach to the transportation decision-making process by considering potential
environmental benefits and impacts during the planning phase.
Conclusion:
The US 60 Connectivity Study was conducted to evaluate the feasibility of constructing a new
US 60 corridor and Ohio River crossing between Barlow, Kentucky, and I-57 north of Cairo,
Illinois.
In addition to the cost comparisons and impacts cited in Table ES-2, the two projects show
stark timeline differences to satisfy Federal NEPA documentation. To advance a major
project in the US 60 Connectivity Study area, an EIS would likely be required, which involves
rigorous requirements (including enhanced public involvement required to navigate the
opposition cited by the public and local groups) and typically takes years to complete. In
contrast, the US 51 Bridge Replacement Project completed the NEPA requirements in 2022,
as well as all necessary federal, state, and local regulatory processes.
Along with the environmental regulatory hurdles, the US 60 Connectivity Study identified
potential disproportionately high and adverse effects to Environmental Justice populations
and received stated opposition for this project from several stakeholder groups including
the Illinois Department of Transportation (IDOT), Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife
Resources (KDFWR), Kentucky Division of Water (KDOW), Western Kentucky Wildlife
Association, Ducks Unlimited, mayors from the Disadvantaged Communities of Wickliffe and
Cairo, Director of the Ballard County Chamber of Commerce, and 83 percent of the public
comments.
Given the myriad environmental challenges, opposition from IDOT, and the $1.3 billion
needed to construct a project within the US 60 study area, KYTC does not recommend
funding future phases of this project. Instead, Kentucky's FY 2024 – FY 2030 Enacted Highway
Plan includes additional funding for the advancement of the US 51 Bridge Replacement
Project (Item No. 1-1140).
Interesting that KYTC is the lead agency on the bridge, yet they're having the meeting at Cairo and not Wickliffe.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 02, 2024, 03:35:50 PMInteresting that KYTC is the lead agency on the bridge, yet they're having the meeting at Cairo and not Wickliffe.
Wickliffe doesn't have a public building large enough to accomodate. Unless you host it in one of the two churches in town. Wickliffe kids get bussed over to Ballard Memorial in LaCenter.
Cairo is right smack dab in the middle of all the local constituents.
KYDOT is the lead agency but I believe IDOT is providing 60%+ of funds.
Just a reminder for those who can go.
Thursday, July 11, 5-8 p.m., CDT
Presentation at 6 p.m., CDT
Cairo High School – 4201 Sycamore Street, Cairo, IL
I ended up working late on Thursday so I didn't make it down to Cairo for the presentation...So no firsthand report here, unfortunately
https://www.wsiltv.com/news/transportation-officials-host-meeting-to-share-renderings-of-new-hwy-51-cairo-bridge/article_75c71f3a-400b-11ef-b7da-df955cc1abeb.html (https://www.wsiltv.com/news/transportation-officials-host-meeting-to-share-renderings-of-new-hwy-51-cairo-bridge/article_75c71f3a-400b-11ef-b7da-df955cc1abeb.html)
For those who want to know what it it will look like.
Single Arch span over the Ohio main channel with pylon approaches at each end.
I will try to find a better rendering.
^The backgroun image on the project website might work: https://us51bridge.com/ (https://us51bridge.com/)
There's no protection for the piers on either side of the arch in that image.
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 12, 2024, 09:50:27 PMThere's no protection for the piers on either side of the arch in that image.
The design trend today for major river crossings is to build massive piers that often have 800 to 1000 cubic yards of concrete, counting the foundation, seal coat and pier stem. Usually when building piers to current AASHTO vessel collision requirements, no additional dolphins or protection cells are needed.
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 12, 2024, 09:50:27 PM^The backgroun image on the project website might work: https://us51bridge.com/ (https://us51bridge.com/)
There's no protection for the piers on either side of the arch in that image.
Here it is without the blue shading, to make things easier:
(https://us51bridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Boat-View-Arch-Long-scaled.jpg)
... and of course just after I posted, I saw the meeting materials that were posted: https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/6be2cb12f53543a0a9dc564f0bb55aaf
Here's a flyover video showing the new bridge, and the new roundabout planned in Cairo (current schedule has a 2032 opening):
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 12, 2024, 09:50:27 PM^The backgroun image on the project website might work: https://us51bridge.com/ (https://us51bridge.com/)
There's no protection for the piers on either side of the arch in that image.
Thanks, I guess I was ahead of the game, the website had not been updated when I plowed through.
Quote from: Rick Powell on July 12, 2024, 11:37:29 PMQuote from: Revive 755 on July 12, 2024, 09:50:27 PMThere's no protection for the piers on either side of the arch in that image.
The design trend today for major river crossings is to build massive piers that often have 800 to 1000 cubic yards of concrete, counting the foundation, seal coat and pier stem. Usually when building piers to current AASHTO vessel collision requirements, no additional dolphins or protection cells are needed.
Pier protection is generally not a thing on many Mississippi and Ohio River crossings, too. Barges and rowboats don't do much damage, if any, on a collision.
Quote from: seicer on July 14, 2024, 07:51:43 PMQuote from: Rick Powell on July 12, 2024, 11:37:29 PMQuote from: Revive 755 on July 12, 2024, 09:50:27 PMThere's no protection for the piers on either side of the arch in that image.
The design trend today for major river crossings is to build massive piers that often have 800 to 1000 cubic yards of concrete, counting the foundation, seal coat and pier stem. Usually when building piers to current AASHTO vessel collision requirements, no additional dolphins or protection cells are needed.
Pier protection is generally not a thing on many Mississippi and Ohio River crossings, too. Barges and rowboats don't do much damage, if any, on a collision.
I looked at a group of bridges up and around Rock Island and none use dolphins. Probably because barges when lashed together tend to break apart when they impact an obstacle. There was a barge/bridge collision at Henry a few years ago and regardless, IDOT did close the bridge and perform an inspection.
While they talk about seismic resiliency (1000 year design) in the presentation, they don't really say what exactly is included in a 1000 year design. Deeper footings? Bushings/springs in the arch/pylon junctions? So many inches of roadway movement in the cable stays for sway?
Perhaps someone could explain where a 1000 year seismic design plays out versus the same design type over a river in North Dakota.
Quote from: edwaleni on July 16, 2024, 11:22:35 AMQuote from: seicer on July 14, 2024, 07:51:43 PMQuote from: Rick Powell on July 12, 2024, 11:37:29 PMQuote from: Revive 755 on July 12, 2024, 09:50:27 PMThere's no protection for the piers on either side of the arch in that image.
The design trend today for major river crossings is to build massive piers that often have 800 to 1000 cubic yards of concrete, counting the foundation, seal coat and pier stem. Usually when building piers to current AASHTO vessel collision requirements, no additional dolphins or protection cells are needed.
Pier protection is generally not a thing on many Mississippi and Ohio River crossings, too. Barges and rowboats don't do much damage, if any, on a collision.
I looked at a group of bridges up and around Rock Island and none use dolphins. Probably because barges when lashed together tend to break apart when they impact an obstacle. There was a barge/bridge collision at Henry a few years ago and regardless, IDOT did close the bridge and perform an inspection.
While they talk about seismic resiliency (1000 year design) in the presentation, they don't really say what exactly is included in a 1000 year design. Deeper footings? Bushings/springs in the arch/pylon junctions? So many inches of roadway movement in the cable stays for sway?
Perhaps someone could explain where a 1000 year seismic design plays out versus the same design type over a river in North Dakota.
KYTC does this every time there is a ship/bridge allision.
Quote from: seicer on July 14, 2024, 07:51:43 PMQuote from: Rick Powell on July 12, 2024, 11:37:29 PMThe design trend today for major river crossings is to build massive piers that often have 800 to 1000 cubic yards of concrete, counting the foundation, seal coat and pier stem. Usually when building piers to current AASHTO vessel collision requirements, no additional dolphins or protection cells are needed.
Pier protection is generally not a thing on many Mississippi and Ohio River crossings, too. Barges and rowboats don't do much damage, if any, on a collision.
I thought the incident that downed the I-40 bridge near Weber Falls, OK, was a barge collision? Or were there not any AASHTO vessel collision requirements when that bridge was built?
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 16, 2024, 09:52:14 PMQuote from: seicer on July 14, 2024, 07:51:43 PMQuote from: Rick Powell on July 12, 2024, 11:37:29 PMThe design trend today for major river crossings is to build massive piers that often have 800 to 1000 cubic yards of concrete, counting the foundation, seal coat and pier stem. Usually when building piers to current AASHTO vessel collision requirements, no additional dolphins or protection cells are needed.
Pier protection is generally not a thing on many Mississippi and Ohio River crossings, too. Barges and rowboats don't do much damage, if any, on a collision.
I thought the incident that downed the I-40 bridge near Weber Falls, OK, was a barge collision? Or were there not any AASHTO vessel collision requirements when that bridge was built?
The Webbers Falls collapse happened in 2002. The more stringent new vessel collision specs were put into place around 2000 (I remember because one of my projects was the first new bridge in IL to incorporate them and it was a PITA gathering all the information required). Unless that bridge was brand new at the time of the incident, it likely wasn't constructed with the more stringent collision protection requirements.
I can't find a document that references the specifications. Do you have a link or page number handy? Regardless, numerous new bridges have been built on the Ohio and Mississippi rivers without pier protection. It's not as if strikes don't occur, but they are usually with loose barges that don't do much damage when they do strike a pier. And the Cairo bridges do get struck quite often—but without much force, so a quick safety check is all that's needed (example (https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/KYTC/bulletins/30c363b)).
I am curious as to the specifics of the Webbers Fall bridge. Pier collisions with barges are frequent, and adding pier protection to every bridge that has barge runs would be prohibitively expensive and unnecessary for the amount of collapses that do happen (my opinion). But nothing out of this seems out of the ordinary - did a barge hit the pier at just the right angle? Or were there piling issues that made the pier more likely to collapse?
Quote from: seicer on July 17, 2024, 09:45:35 AMI can't find a document that references the specifications. Do you have a link or page number handy? Regardless, numerous new bridges have been built on the Ohio and Mississippi rivers without pier protection. It's not as if strikes don't occur, but they are usually with loose barges that don't do much damage when they do strike a pier. And the Cairo bridges do get struck quite often—but without much force, so a quick safety check is all that's needed (example (https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/KYTC/bulletins/30c363b)).
I am curious as to the specifics of the Webbers Fall bridge. Pier collisions with barges are frequent, and adding pier protection to every bridge that has barge runs would be prohibitively expensive and unnecessary for the amount of collapses that do happen (my opinion). But nothing out of this seems out of the ordinary - did a barge hit the pier at just the right angle? Or were there piling issues that made the pier more likely to collapse?
The Army Corp of Engineers had a website that had all the data and research from that bridge collapse, but it has been pulled down unfortunately.
Quote from: Rick Powell on July 16, 2024, 10:09:07 PMQuote from: Revive 755 on July 16, 2024, 09:52:14 PMQuote from: seicer on July 14, 2024, 07:51:43 PMQuote from: Rick Powell on July 12, 2024, 11:37:29 PMThe design trend today for major river crossings is to build massive piers that often have 800 to 1000 cubic yards of concrete, counting the foundation, seal coat and pier stem. Usually when building piers to current AASHTO vessel collision requirements, no additional dolphins or protection cells are needed.
Pier protection is generally not a thing on many Mississippi and Ohio River crossings, too. Barges and rowboats don't do much damage, if any, on a collision.
I thought the incident that downed the I-40 bridge near Weber Falls, OK, was a barge collision? Or were there not any AASHTO vessel collision requirements when that bridge was built?
The Webbers Falls collapse happened in 2002. The more stringent new vessel collision specs were put into place around 2000 (I remember because one of my projects was the first new bridge in IL to incorporate them and it was a PITA gathering all the information required). Unless that bridge was brand new at the time of the incident, it likely wasn't constructed with the more stringent collision protection requirements.
That bridge was originally built in the early 70's along with the McClellan-Kerr construction. I often wondered if I-40 construction was delayed so they could match up with the waterway construction as this was the last stretch of I-40 to open between OKC and Fort Smith.
US64 also got a new bridge replacing the old one-lane bridge in Webbers Falls. I remember waiting at least 2 traffic signal cycles to cross it (at least 20 minutes).
Quote from: seicer on July 17, 2024, 09:45:35 AMI can't find a document that references the specifications. Do you have a link or page number handy? Regardless, numerous new bridges have been built on the Ohio and Mississippi rivers without pier protection. It's not as if strikes don't occur, but they are usually with loose barges that don't do much damage when they do strike a pier. And the Cairo bridges do get struck quite often—but without much force, so a quick safety check is all that's needed (example (https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/KYTC/bulletins/30c363b)).
I am curious as to the specifics of the Webbers Fall bridge. Pier collisions with barges are frequent, and adding pier protection to every bridge that has barge runs would be prohibitively expensive and unnecessary for the amount of collapses that do happen (my opinion). But nothing out of this seems out of the ordinary - did a barge hit the pier at just the right angle? Or were there piling issues that made the pier more likely to collapse?
The Webbers Fall disaster was due to a towboat pilot blacking out and the tow going out of the channel, hitting one of the piers nearer the eastern shoreline. The bridge didn't have piers built all across the river to withstand a tow strike and collapsed the eastern deck into the river. It was a freak deal and I lost a friend, coworker, and fishing buddy to that tragedy. Jimmy Johnson was headed west with his wife Misty and their young daughter, and were at the wrong place at the wrong time and drove off into the Arkansas River and drowned before they got traffic stopped after the deck collapsed. It's his daughter that they put the memorial statue in honor of when they reconstructed the bridge in record time to reconnect I-40.
If you look on Google Maps' satellite view of the I-40 bridge now, they have dolphins upstream of all and downstream of nearly all the piers, not just the ones bookending the channel. Likely a reaction to the casualties, but certainly not something that's common on all of the MKARNS, nor Ohio and Mississippi Rivers. There are significant dolphin installations on both of the major river crossings upstream of I-40 as well for US-64 and US-62. Not so much downstream at US-59's crossing, which was also recently struck by a barge tow and closed for part of a day for inspection, but reopened without any repairs necessary. Notably the KCS railroad bridge just downstream of it does have dolphins on the upstream side. It all depends on pier strength, tow size and strike angle as to whether the gamble of having no dolphins at least upstream of piers is wise.
Practical Engineering covers this topic quite well, too. It comes down to cost, need, and likelihood of incident, among other factors. Worth a watch: https://youtu.be/zLOVv09n46g?si=j2E24A8ykYOP5gNR
IDOT and the ACoE has installed dolphins on every road and rail bridge over the Kaskaskia River bargeway from the Mississippi locks back to New Athens where the navigation ends.
Quote from: edwaleni on July 29, 2024, 12:34:20 PMIDOT and the ACoE has installed dolphins on every road and rail bridge over the Kaskaskia River bargeway from the Mississippi locks back to New Athens where the navigation ends.
Conversely, none of the "new" structures on the Illinois River, which usually sees 10-20 barge tows a day, has any additional pier protection, and the former protective cells in a few locations like IL 178 and IL 351 were removed (they didn't line up with the new openings anyway). No additional protection at IL 47, IL 170, CH5 (Marseilles), IL 23/71, IL 178, I-39, IL 351, or IL 89. And even the I-180 and IL 251 bridges that were built in the 1960s. The rail lift bridges at "Divine" near Minooka (a fairly new bridge rebuilt in 2011), Seneca, and Ottawa, and the truss rail bridge at La Salle do have additional pier protection, but the truss rail bridge at Chillicothe des not.