Which do you prefer, I-35 between Austin and San Antonio or I-4 between Tampa and Orlando? Based on traffic, scenery and road repair.
I-35. Only cause I live near I-4 so I would be biased to give an accurate answer.
Trash vs garbage.
I choose Doctor Who.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 17, 2024, 05:15:56 AMTrash vs garbage.
Kansas City and Minneapolis are nice.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 17, 2024, 05:12:10 AMI-35. Only cause I live near I-4 so I would be biased to give an accurate answer.
That's fine I'm interested in your opinion.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 17, 2024, 05:15:56 AMTrash vs garbage.
Wow, lol. I know I-35 between Austin and San Antonio can be hell. I've heard I-4 is no joke in that department. Then again I've never been on that freeway.
Quote from: dariusb on June 17, 2024, 04:53:57 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on June 17, 2024, 05:15:56 AMTrash vs garbage.
Wow, lol. I know I-35 between Austin and San Antonio can be hell. I've heard I-4 is no joke in that department. Then again I've never been on that freeway.
My dad has told me his share of traffic horror stories on I-4.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 05:35:49 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on June 17, 2024, 05:15:56 AMTrash vs garbage.
Took the words right out my mouth.
I only drove I-35 once between Austin and SA, but I can believe that it can be another I-4 based on gossip.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 17, 2024, 06:44:52 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 05:35:49 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on June 17, 2024, 05:15:56 AMTrash vs garbage.
Took the words right out my mouth.
I only drove I-35 once between Austin and SA, but I can believe that it can be another I-4 based on gossip. However it wasn't bad the day I drove it, but I could have got lucky.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 17, 2024, 06:44:52 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 05:35:49 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on June 17, 2024, 05:15:56 AMTrash vs garbage.
Took the words right out my mouth.
I only drove I-35 once between Austin and SA, but I can believe that it can be another I-4 based on gossip.
It is, both suck in every conceivable way.
Never been on either.
I'm a former Orlando resident. That being the case I've done pretty much everything conceivable to avoid I-4. The cited segment of I-35 never has been an enjoyable experience every time I've interacted with it.
Well both are in developing areas. Both are attracting those from Michigan, New York, and New Jersey to move there and businesses relying on those to establish themselves in those two corridors.
Orlando has two problems that lead to everyone dog piling onto I-4:
- The street grid is a contender for the worst of any major U.S. city.
- The locals don't want to use the tolled State Roads.
Most of the time the toll prices were worth it to get out town fast. I picked the right apartment to live at along Semoran. My commute was super short and didn't involve anything limited access.
I-4 sucks worse than that stretch of I-35, but neither are fun.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 10:07:31 PMOrlando has two problems that lead to everyone dog piling onto I-4:
- The street grid is a contender for the worst of any major U.S. city.
- The locals don't want to use the tolled State Roads.
Most of the time the toll prices were worth it to get out town fast. I picked the right apartment to live at along Semoran. My commute was super short and didn't involve anything limited access.
It never was planned. Everything just thrown in. Streets laid out terrible and no foresight into what it will lead.
New Jersey, where I'm from, is the best example to show the results of overdevelopment, yet Florida leaders don't want to look and see what their type of present thinking has done in the past elsewhere. Just continue screwing up like other states have done, and say shit happens when residents complain about the traffic.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 17, 2024, 10:13:26 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 10:07:31 PMOrlando has two problems that lead to everyone dog piling onto I-4:
- The street grid is a contender for the worst of any major U.S. city.
- The locals don't want to use the tolled State Roads.
Most of the time the toll prices were worth it to get out town fast. I picked the right apartment to live at along Semoran. My commute was super short and didn't involve anything limited access.
It never was planned. Everything just thrown in. Streets laid out terrible and no foresight into what it will lead.
New Jersey, where I'm from, is the best example to show the results of overdevelopment, yet Florida leaders don't want to look and see what their type of present thinking has done in the past elsewhere. Just continue screwing up like other states have done, and say shit happens when residents complain about the traffic.
Planning or not, there isn't much that can be done with so many random lakes. A lot of the retiree oriented communities (thinking of Belle Isle especially) use those lakes a de facto barriers.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 10:17:12 PMQuote from: roadman65 on June 17, 2024, 10:13:26 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 10:07:31 PMOrlando has two problems that lead to everyone dog piling onto I-4:
- The street grid is a contender for the worst of any major U.S. city.
- The locals don't want to use the tolled State Roads.
Most of the time the toll prices were worth it to get out town fast. I picked the right apartment to live at along Semoran. My commute was super short and didn't involve anything limited access.
It never was planned. Everything just thrown in. Streets laid out terrible and no foresight into what it will lead.
New Jersey, where I'm from, is the best example to show the results of overdevelopment, yet Florida leaders don't want to look and see what their type of present thinking has done in the past elsewhere. Just continue screwing up like other states have done, and say shit happens when residents complain about the traffic.
Planning or not, there isn't much that can be done with so many random lakes. A lot of the retiree oriented communities (thinking of Belle Isle especially) use those lakes a de facto barriers.
When they develop east of SR 417 is the time to strategize on how to lay out a street grid so when new developments occur there, they have a free flowing arterial system when they get beyond their peak.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 17, 2024, 10:26:38 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 10:17:12 PMQuote from: roadman65 on June 17, 2024, 10:13:26 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 10:07:31 PMOrlando has two problems that lead to everyone dog piling onto I-4:
- The street grid is a contender for the worst of any major U.S. city.
- The locals don't want to use the tolled State Roads.
Most of the time the toll prices were worth it to get out town fast. I picked the right apartment to live at along Semoran. My commute was super short and didn't involve anything limited access.
It never was planned. Everything just thrown in. Streets laid out terrible and no foresight into what it will lead.
New Jersey, where I'm from, is the best example to show the results of overdevelopment, yet Florida leaders don't want to look and see what their type of present thinking has done in the past elsewhere. Just continue screwing up like other states have done, and say shit happens when residents complain about the traffic.
Planning or not, there isn't much that can be done with so many random lakes. A lot of the retiree oriented communities (thinking of Belle Isle especially) use those lakes a de facto barriers.
When they develop east of SR 417 is the time to strategize on how to lay out a street grid so when new developments occur there, they have a free flowing arterial system when they get beyond their peak.
Lake Nona didn't do much for me when most of that was new. Just made Narcoossee Road more of a pain in the ass to get through when I was heading south.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 10:07:31 PMOrlando has two problems that lead to everyone dog piling onto I-4:
- The street grid is a contender for the worst of any major U.S. city.
- The locals don't want to use the tolled State Roads.
Most of the time the toll prices were worth it to get out town fast. I picked the right apartment to live at along Semoran. My commute was super short and didn't involve anything limited access.
And to the southwest, the Green Swamp results in a bottleneck of all regional traffic onto six lanes of I-4 or two lanes of US 17/92. Osceola and Polk County approving every development along CR 532 and nearby, plus the solid corridor of suburban development and logistics centers along US 27 resulted in the traffic congestion.
Traffic congestion along the stretch from US 27 to SR 429 was not routine until after 2016. It occurred, but not with regularity.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 10:07:31 PMThe street grid is a contender for the worst of any major U.S. city.
A grid doesn't solve everything. Look at areas in the mid-northern suburbs of Detroit. Places like northern Troy and Sterling Heights, Rochester Hills, Shelby Twp. They have a well-defined grid with the mile roads and n/s roads. (Although the Clinton River does interrupt it in some places.) The problem is that the roads have not been expanded as much as the population has expanded. So the grid becomes gridlock.
They don't think of the impact. They just approve building because the money it brings into the economy and the additional traffic is not on their minds.
To the commissioners it's like " so what" as if it's another " life is unfair" moment.
Just realized I-4 is only 6 lanes between FL 429 and World Dr. That is an insane bottleneck, especially westbound. Six lanes collapsing into three is probably the closest thing I've seen to the QEW east of Red Hill Valley Pkwy (https://maps.app.goo.gl/CKsALDaCkX3Kzygs5) which is an unhinged seven lanes into three.
^^^^Not to mention on both sides of the six lanes between Celebration and US 27 exchange you have many feeding in from both sides of the narrowness. At US 27 many add to the traffic from Lakeland and Tampa on EB I-4 as well.
They need 12 lanes with two carriageways each side 3-3-3-3 and the ramp from US 27 NB to I-4 EB needs to be three lanes starting one of the 3-3-3-3 eastbound not mixing into I-4 through lanes until east of SR 429 and World Drive when a lot exit at both.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 18, 2024, 10:41:45 AM^^^^Not to mention on both sides of the six lanes between Celebration and US 27 exchange you have many feeding in from both sides of the narrowness.
That was basically my point, just phrased in a different way. The bottleneck is between 429 and World Dr and that obviously creates eastbound backups towards US 27 and westbound backups towards Celebration.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 18, 2024, 10:41:45 AMThey need 12 lanes with two carriageways each side 3-3-3-3 and the ramp from US 27 NB to I-4 EB needs to be three lanes starting one of the 3-3-3-3 eastbound not mixing into I-4 through lanes until east of SR 429 and World Drive when a lot exit at both.
I can get on board with that. It certainly needs at least 8 lanes but the carriageway separation would be even better.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2024, 09:43:31 PMI'm a former Orlando resident. That being the case I've done pretty much everything conceivable to avoid I-4. The cited segment of I-35 never has been an enjoyable experience every time I've interacted with it.
I've been through Austin on Sunday afternoon and traffic would be backed up. I haven't been on I-4 yet but will in the next year or so.
I can't speak for I-4, but I have zero interest in taking I-35 between SA and Austin ever again. In the future, unless it's between midnight and 6AM, I would take I-10 to TX 130 despite the tolls and added mileage. I-10 definitely needs to be widened to TX 130, but I figure even four lanes of I-10 can't be as bad as I-35.
I-4 should have been widened years ago. I remember the local new media doing a story on the subject in the late eighties with research revealing back then I-4 needed at least 10 lanes to handle current and projected future growth.
Like I said earlier the hierarchy in FL government won't look at other states mistakes by letting developments in and procrastination on widening the roads. Instead they want to carry the trend and just develop as the others and worry later about road infrastructure.
Austin traffic sucks, but San Antonio is surprisingly easy to get around in. A 10- to 20-minute town.