If you ride I-22 anywhere in Alabama you will find the road to lack developed interchanges like all the rest of the state's interchanges on the other interstates?
For example, in Hamilton to find motorists services you must exit at US 43/278 and climb the hill and travel 3 miles into the center to find them. Yet in Mississippi all along the same freeway all the needed services are right at the interchanges.
Another thing I noticed is the lack of post interchange mileage signs to keep you informed of how far you are from the next exit and control destinations.
The freeway looks more like a parkway than an interstate and feels like you traveling in New Jersey or Connecticut on their interstates or even the LIE on Long Island being uninformed of your destination.
What's up with this highway?
It's new. Development will come. See also how the I-79 corridor in West Virginia developed over time.
Yet Mississippi didn't take long to build big box retail and such along its portion.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 24, 2024, 01:11:25 PMYet Mississippi didn't take long to build big box retail and such along its portion.
Mississippi also actually passes through the "large" cities that I-22 hits (Tupelo and New Albany). I-22 in Alabama pretty much avoids Hamilton and Jasper.
MS portion was functionally (not all parts fully to Interstate standards) complete well before the AL portion (20-30 years for some parts).
Quote from: roadman65 on June 24, 2024, 01:11:25 PMYet Mississippi didn't take long to build big box retail and such along its portion.
Mississippi's portion has been complete (as a freeway at least) since 1994. You also have Memphis being "a little more" of a logistical hub than Birmingham ever will be.
I drove I-22 from Birmingham (with that silly gap) all the way to Memphis less than 60 days after it opened.
I wasn't expecting the world in roadside services, as after all it did just open, but yes at that time you had to go into Jasper or Hamilton to find something.
What surprised me more than roadside services was (at the time) huge gaps in the national cell phone network along the ROW. That has since been addressed but there were times where you had no signal for 30 or 40 miles.
I came back through about 18 months later and was completely surprised that I still had to get off on some country side road (Coalburg Road) because ALDOT had not finished the ramps with I-65. They still aren't done to Decatur Highway (US-31).
Last month, I was going to Huntsville and due to an accident, I had to take I-459 around to the south of Birmingham and then back up I-65. I thought this would be a great chance to see all the work they had done to improve I-65 here.
As I work my way up I-65 North, no signage for I-22. I am now 2 miles (usually the first warning for an I route) from the I-22 exit ramp and still no warning. What's up? I thought. We hit the new pavement that came with the I-22 build and still no signage.
Finally I see this:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53812611932_24850d7a2f_c.jpg)
Now I have to ask, what gives? Is I-22 the road Alabama didn't want? Was it foisted on them like some sick child? This isn't a toll road, this is a public highway on a national network. It is almost like it doesn't exist or they didn't want it.
I-22 should have TO shields on I-20/59 at I-65 that direct you between interstates. They don't of course.
They don't have post interchange mileage signs like other AL state ( as I mentioned) and some ramps still have no I-22 shields. Heck the pull through at Jasper at SR 118 still lists US 78 as the only highway other than SR 4.
It is a good highway and despite driving into Jasper or Hamilton for services, it's a great drive between Birmingham and Memphis.
Oh yeah, the signs at US 78 near Adamsville lack East banners like the route goes both ways and forget finding AL 5 as that route is not signed at all on exit guides on I-22.
Part of it could also be a lack of sewer lines close to the route, which could be discouraging development. This is where the nearby cities or the counties need to step in and extend sewer lines to the exits.
After I-840 was built in Wilson County, TN (when it was still TN 840), there was practically no development near it for years. Then Dover Downs announced that they would build the Nashville Superspeedway near the Wilson/Rutherford County line (it was supposed to be in both counties but Rutherford chose not to implement the rezoning). While they were building it, either the county or the City of Lebanon extended sewer service all the way down the eastern 840 ROW to the site. Since then, along the path, numerous warehouses (notably Amazon, Walmart, Starbucks, Chewy, and Aldi) and a high school were built nearby, as well as a Thornton's off the TN 109/265 exit and a Love's off the Couchville Pike exit. It's not extremely dense development right now, but it's more than most anywhere else along 840.
Well I-22 in Alabama is a hilly topography so that does make sense. In Mississippi it's more flat.
I think it is interesting I-22 is 3x3 lanes wide from I-65 to the AR-269 exit in Jasper. With that kind of capacity level that specific stretch of I-22 could sprout a lot of new service businesses near the exits.
The fact Graysville has three exits and still within Jefferson County I'm surprised one of the three exits hasn't allowed at least a convenience store if not other places.
Maybe Bucees should look into building a store here😂 or in Jasper. :bigass:
Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 24, 2024, 05:22:15 PMI think it is interesting I-22 is 3x3 lanes wide from I-65 to the AR-269 exit in Jasper. With that kind of capacity level that specific stretch of I-22 could sprout a lot of new service businesses near the exits.
I always thought it was for the trucks on hilly terrain.
As for a Buc'ees, AL-269 and I-22 would be a perfect spot.
Quote from: edwaleni on June 24, 2024, 04:38:41 PMAs I work my way up I-65 North, no signage for I-22. I am now 2 miles (usually the first warning for an I route) from the I-22 exit ramp and still no warning. What's up? I thought. We hit the new pavement that came with the I-22 build and still no signage.
Not too much notice, but there is an advance sign on I-65 NB...https://maps.app.goo.gl/ymVBoCuLPAZGG8186
Quote from: Mapmikey on June 24, 2024, 08:12:50 PMQuote from: edwaleni on June 24, 2024, 04:38:41 PMAs I work my way up I-65 North, no signage for I-22. I am now 2 miles (usually the first warning for an I route) from the I-22 exit ramp and still no warning. What's up? I thought. We hit the new pavement that came with the I-22 build and still no signage.
Not too much notice, but there is an advance sign on I-65 NB... https://maps.app.goo.gl/ymVBoCuLPAZGG8186
There's not much advance warning for I-22 on I-65 northbound, but two, one, and one-half mile BGSes when approaching it southbound.
You'd figure the approaches were the other way around, since few are likely headed north-west on I-22 from southbound I-65. Perhaps they figured drivers would get mixed up with a nearby I-20 and I-59 shields but there's plenty of room to include advance warning for a different interstate...
I don't think this will change until the Birmingham Northern Bypass (including the connecting I-222) is built, if ever. The fact that there are no businesses alongside I-22 where the exits are is totally unacceptable, especially compared to other established routes throughout the state.
You are right. I-22 is not your typical AL interstate. It has hardly no developed interchanges and even after a few years not one of the many greedy developers in this country has sought to acquire land at any interchange along the route.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 24, 2024, 11:42:08 PMYou are right. I-22 is not your typical AL interstate. It has hardly no developed interchanges and even after a few years not one of the many greedy developers in this country has sought to acquire land at any interchange along the route.
How do you know the land hasn't been acquired?
Quote from: Mapmikey on June 24, 2024, 08:12:50 PMQuote from: edwaleni on June 24, 2024, 04:38:41 PMAs I work my way up I-65 North, no signage for I-22. I am now 2 miles (usually the first warning for an I route) from the I-22 exit ramp and still no warning. What's up? I thought. We hit the new pavement that came with the I-22 build and still no signage.
Not too much notice, but there is an advance sign on I-65 NB...https://maps.app.goo.gl/ymVBoCuLPAZGG8186
Good catch, I must have missed it when doing a lane change, but 1 sign in 2 miles before the physical exit is still skimpy for a federal highway.
Quote from: Rothman on June 25, 2024, 07:00:21 AMQuote from: roadman65 on June 24, 2024, 11:42:08 PMYou are right. I-22 is not your typical AL interstate. It has hardly no developed interchanges and even after a few years not one of the many greedy developers in this country has sought to acquire land at any interchange along the route.
How do you know the land hasn't been acquired?
Well if Jasper, AL is the baseline, I checked the Walker County tax records for property ownership around the I-22 & AL-269 exit ramps.
Of the 12 parcels that surround the exit facility, 8 are owned by local families and are zoned agricultural.
1 of the parcels is zoned commercial and has an operating gas station (Chevron of Jasper) which is owned/operated by a local proprietorship.
2 are owned by a Birmingham property developer (Bankhead Land Development) who are more known for their apartments.
3 are zoned commercial and are owned by different attorneys, some from Parrish, AL.
Only the gas station is a functioning retail establishment. One of the lots owned by Bankhead look to be either a future truck stop or a multi hotel arrangement. The lots owned by the attorneys are small and narrow and will probably be fast food eventually.
Quote from: edwaleni on June 25, 2024, 08:29:57 AMQuote from: Rothman on June 25, 2024, 07:00:21 AMQuote from: roadman65 on June 24, 2024, 11:42:08 PMYou are right. I-22 is not your typical AL interstate. It has hardly no developed interchanges and even after a few years not one of the many greedy developers in this country has sought to acquire land at any interchange along the route.
How do you know the land hasn't been acquired?
Well if Jasper, AL is the baseline, I checked the Walker County tax records for property ownership around the I-22 & AL-269 exit ramps.
Of the 12 parcels that surround the exit facility, 8 are owned by local families and are zoned agricultural.
1 of the parcels is zoned commercial and has an operating gas station (Chevron of Jasper) which is owned/operated by a local proprietorship.
2 are owned by a Birmingham property developer (Bankhead Land Development) who are more known for their apartments.
3 are zoned commercial and are owned by different attorneys, some from Parrish, AL.
Only the gas station is a functioning retail establishment. One of the lots owned by Bankhead look to be either a future truck stop or a multi hotel arrangement. The lots owned by the attorneys are small and narrow and will probably be fast food eventually.
Sounds like development will happen, then, given that zoning and ownership ("Lawyers" = opportunists).
Like I said, I-79's experience through the 1980s seems quite parallel to what's going on in AL.
Development takes time.
Quote from: Henry on June 24, 2024, 10:12:52 PMI don't think this will change until the Birmingham Northern Bypass (including the connecting I-222) is built, if ever.
It's still there, just unfinished......
(https://betterbeltline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/ALDOT-Beltline-Gallery-Image-7.jpg)
(https://betterbeltline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/ALDOT-Beltline-Gallery-Image-9.jpg)
(https://betterbeltline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/ALDOT-BNB-2016-09-112_lrg.jpg)
(https://betterbeltline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/ALDOT-Beltline-Gallery-Image-8.jpg)
Is it accurate that a 10-mile segment of the BNB has secured funding, but will not proceed to construction due to another environmental complaint over its construction being filed? Maybe they should just scrap the whole bypass, and eliminate what little has been constructed between AL 75 and AL 79.
Per Wikipedia:
On April 12, 2023, Alabama Governor Kay Ivey announced that $489 million in federal funding had been secured to resume construction that spring. The funding will cover five years for construction of the original segment along with an extension westward beyond SR 79 to US 31 for a total of 10 miles (16 km). However, construction of this segment of the interstate, which will be four lanes, was delayed again and ALDOT did not expect to break ground on the resumption of the project until November 2023. There have been no announcement on when construction will begin since that time. The FHA now estimates that the construction of the interstate in its entirety will cost $5.44 billion (an average of over $100 million per mile of road); the original estimate was $3.4 billion
Going back to the I-22 discussion:
I am most familiar with Exit 30 in Winfield. The two gas stations at that interchange were built after I-22 was finished to Winfield. Some of the other developments at the interchange are newer.
Both Winfield and Brilliant have land cleared off from industrial parks, but as far as I know, nothing has been built.
Development takes time. Cracker Barrell was rumored for years to come to Jasper before one opened at Exit 65.
I'm always intrigued by this Holiday Inn at exit 26...in the absolute middle of nowhere. :eyebrow:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0123208,-87.8369896,1840m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0123208,-87.8369896,1840m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu)
Quote from: bdmoss88 on July 12, 2024, 06:00:13 PMI'm always intrigued by this Holiday Inn at exit 26...in the absolute middle of nowhere. :eyebrow:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0123208,-87.8369896,1840m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0123208,-87.8369896,1840m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu)
Having stayed a lot of small-town Holiday Inns before, that one is conveniently located in the middle of nowhere. Makes sense to have it by the busiest road in the area.
Amazingly, it's four stories tall (less-populated locations are 2-3 story hotels) and it has a dozen Tesla Superchargers. It's also not an Express, so no free breakfast...they have a restaurant, though.
^ There is a three-story Hampton Inn at exit 30, with free breakfast but apparently no Tesla Superchargers.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 24, 2024, 05:22:15 PMI think it is interesting I-22 is 3x3 lanes wide from I-65 to the AR-269 exit in Jasper. With that kind of capacity level that specific stretch of I-22 could sprout a lot of new service businesses near the exits.
Rural interstate AADT expectations for 3 lanes are lower, there's a relatively high truck split (which tends to push for more lanes, especially in rural areas), and the expectation was probably that Jasper would develop more as a commuter suburb... which really couldn't happen until the I-65 tie-in was completed years later than planned. People weren't going to move to Jasper to commute through the Graysville/Adamsville US 78 slog to I-20/59 (drive it today it's OK, but before I-22 was extended to I-65 it was clogged with trucks).
One factor that may also be affecting development is that there are still official maps that omit non-chargeable interstate mileage from the Interstate Highway System and related networks like the National Freight Highway System. The people at big companies that plan things like franchise development rely on national databases to make decisions, so if you're not on their map, you're not going to attract development. That may be why Pilot/FJ hasn't built anything except the two truck stops in Mississippi that long predate I-22 and there's no presence from TA/Petro, leaving the route to mostly Love's with four locations—soon to be five.
Quote from: lordsutch on July 12, 2024, 07:17:15 PMthere are still official maps that omit non-chargeable interstate mileage from the Interstate Highway System and related networks like the National Freight Highway System. The people at big companies that plan things like franchise development rely on national databases to make decisions, so if you're not on their map, you're not going to attract development.
Makes me question the whole "economic development" narrative for new interstates. But what's the point in producing a map omitting non-chargeable mileage for anyone other than state DOTs, FHWA, or roadgeeks?
I-30 in Texas and Arkansas were undeveloped until the past 15 years or so and they have been there for over 50. Pretty much if a freeway doesn't go through fairly decent sized towns, the development takes decades. If you build a road on a new path and skirt or altogether miss the towns, it is how it is.
Part of it has to to do with the lack of utilities out on the freeway exits. There may be electricity, but only 220VAC. THere may be water, but not in a commercial volume. THere is likely not natural gas.
Despite the primary thrust of the services being for the highway, there is a lack of nearby residents to provide labor and local patronage. Restaurants and convenience tend to need a certain amount of local resident sales.
Quote from: bwana39 on July 13, 2024, 10:43:36 AMI-30 in Texas and Arkansas were undeveloped until the past 15 years or so and they have been there for over 50. Pretty much if a freeway doesn't go through fairly decent sized towns, the development takes decades. If you build a road on a new path and skirt or altogether miss the towns, it is how it is.
Meh. The development along I-79 in WV did take a while, but really less than two decades to see a significany increase.