As a counterpart to
@webny99's great thread here, (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=35075.0) I now pose the opposite question. What drives between major cities are actually interesting?
I'll start. I know that Fort Smith, AR is not technically 100k in population, but the drive between there and Little Rock on I-40 was actually pretty interesting (at least compared to other Southern interstates) when I drove it a couple years ago. I-49 between Joplin and NWA is pretty cool too due to all the rock cuts and newer construction.
Denver to Las Vegas, without a doubt.
If you like trees and lakes, QC 175 between Québec City and Saguenay is pretty good.
Bakersfield to Los Angeles on I-5 via the Grapevine Grade and Ridge Route corridors is a classic. Sacramento to Reno via I-80 has a ton going for it with Donner Summit, Truckee River Canyon and other items.
Since this thread didn't include the caveat that this has to be just Interstates I'll include CA 1 from Los Angeles (Venice) to San Francisco.
I-87 from Albany to the Canadian border. (I'd say to Montreal except one of the usual suspects would whine.)
Indy and Evansville on I-69
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 04, 2024, 07:52:09 PMI-87 from Albany to the Canadian border.
Second this, was just about to mention it. Definitely a top candidate for the eastern half of the country, especially considering the lack of large cities on the I-91/I-93 corridors.
Boston to the Canadian border/Montreal, including the entire length of I-89, is a very nice drive as well.
Albany/Montréal is certainly interesting to analyze. The portion through the Adirondacks is great, but there are also boring portions, especially north of Plattsburgh. Now I'm curious what it's like in terms of mileage, so let's take a (very approximate) look.
Albany-Saratoga: Average, 25 miles
Saratoga-Glens Falls: Boring, 25 miles (includes through Saratoga Springs and exits 18-19)
Glens Falls-Plattsburg: Interesting/very interesting (exact limits between the two vary by direction), 105 miles
Plattsburgh-Montréal outer: very boring, 45 miles
Montréal suburbs: interesting, 10 miles
So... we come out to 25 miles average, 70 miles boring, and 115 miles interesting. There's definitely a lot worse out there.
Really, anything out of Albany is nice, especially compared to the stuff in the "most boring" thread. I particularly like Albany-New York (especially when traffic isn't an issue). Albany-Boston is also great. Albany-Burlington is also decent, at least in terms of scenery, though it varies by how you go (most interesting and also least traffic would be I-87/NY 74/NY 22/NY 185/VT 17/VT 22A/US 7).
Albany-Syracuse is another one I want to analyze. It's also easier to do so... it's interesting east of Utica (85 miles) and boring west of it (40 miles). So it averages out about the same as Albany-Montréal.
- Depending where the cutoff is for major: Knoxville, TN to Asheville, NC
- Pittsburgh, PA to Harrisburg, PA
Forever biased for US 101 between SF and Los Angeles, with the addendum that the Route 154 alternate for the Santa Maria-Santa Barbara segment is very fun and involves a twisty mountain descent as well.
Max R mentioned Route 1 between the same two cities, and overall that is good, I do highlight one portion though that doesn't quite live up to Monterey or Big Sur or Malibu: Pismo Beach to Las Cruces, which is almost entirely inland. (Interestingly, the portion bypassed in 1988 along Harris Grade Road from Route 135/old US 101 at C2 Cellars Winery, south to Lompoc, is much more fun and worth a check)
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In the 2021 roadtrip to Florida, my friend and I tried to use US routes whenever possible (unless time became an issue) - US 80 from Shreveport to Dallas was pretty rewarding, if one has the time to keep going through a bunch of different towns (particularly in North Texas). We also found that US 90 as part of a San Antonio-El Paso (with I-10 covering the final portion from Van Horn west) journey was one of the absolute highlights of the trip.
I've always liked driving the Megalopolis to some degree. Maybe not Boston to DC, but NYC to DC.
Quote from: Rothman on August 04, 2024, 11:12:57 PMI've always liked driving the Megalopolis to some degree. Maybe not Boston to DC, but NYC to DC.
Samezees.
"Interesting" may vary among those driving it of course. Some may see it as a white-knuckle expensive drive where traffic often flows at over 80 mph in what many will consider tailgating conditions. Others see it as a varying landscape that often goes between urban to rural several times (there's actually few rural areas, but it appears that way). I'm often seeing new things to check out on future visits (although I rarely make it to those things). The mid-size cities along the corridor that are often afterthoughts would be fairly major cities elsewhere in the country.
Quote from: vdeane on August 04, 2024, 09:28:43 PMAlbany/Montréal is certainly interesting to analyze. The portion through the Adirondacks is great, but there are also boring portions, especially north of Plattsburgh. ...
To me, while the scenery north of Plattsburgh is nothing special, I've always found it of interest when I come down out of the mountains and start seeing the bilingual road signs because it means that after driving for eight-plus hours, I'm finally approaching Canada. I suppose this is a significant difference as to where my trips originate versus where yours do, of course!
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 04, 2024, 09:39:10 PM- Pittsburgh, PA to Harrisburg, PA
I'd expand this to Pittsburgh to Philadelphia.
Quote from: vdeane on August 04, 2024, 09:28:43 PMAlbany-Saratoga: Average, 25 miles
Saratoga-Glens Falls: Boring, 25 miles (includes through Saratoga Springs and exits 18-19)
While this is true for the purposes of this exercise, I find the entire stretch from Albany to Glens Falls quite interesting, particularly because I don't get to drive it much and the six-lane/treed median combination is quite unique for New York. Drivers also seem to be faster than what I'm used to elsewhere in the state. I-495 in MA is the only other interstate I've driven that feels truly comparable.
Quote from: vdeane on August 04, 2024, 09:28:43 PMPlattsburgh-Montréal outer: very boring, 45 miles
I've never been on I-87 north of Plattsburgh or A 15 north of the border, but from what I have seen on Street View, it's strikingly similar to I-81 north of Watertown, and I agree that's very boring (at least south of Exit 50).
Quote from: vdeane on August 04, 2024, 09:28:43 PMAlbany-Boston is also great.
I would revise that slightly and say that Albany-Springfield is great. Springfield to Boston is overall closer to average and intermittently quite boring.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 04, 2024, 05:53:57 PMDenver to Las Vegas, without a doubt.
This is probably the longest without passing through a major city that's somewhat consistently scenic the entire length (and even the less-scenic stretches are pretty beautiful by eastern standards). I'm not sure 750 miles/11 hours can be topped.
EDIT:
- Salt Lake City to Spokane comes close at 720 miles/10.5 hours. I can't personally compare the scenery to Denver-Vegas, but I bet it's pretty close.
- Vancouver to Calgary, 600 miles/10.5 hours is a longtime bucket list item of mine. Shorter mileage but probably tops the other two from a pure "average scenic value" perspective.
Although certainly not a 'major' city, I have always liked the drive between my home town (Appleton, WI) and Milwaukee, WI on what is now I-41.
Mike
Seattle to Spokane on I-90.
Albany to Springfield? Going over the Taconics/Bershires has its moments, but if Springfield to Boston is average, then so is Albany to Springfield.
That said, I've always enjoyed the drive into Boston on the Pike.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 05, 2024, 11:12:31 AMSeattle to Spokane on I-90.
LOL at this getting mentioned in both the "most interesting" and "most boring" threads.
Quote from: webny99 on August 05, 2024, 11:26:11 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 05, 2024, 11:12:31 AMSeattle to Spokane on I-90.
This is almost certainly the only one that gets a serious mention in both the "most interesting" and "most boring" threads, LOL.
I think its because I am from the midwest and just find that drive interesting. I have only done it twice and love the topography change.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 05, 2024, 11:12:31 AMSeattle to Spokane on I-90.
(Others beat me to this.) Ha. This got listed on the Least Interesting thread. I obviously disagreed. That said, Central and Eastern Washington aren't that pretty, but Snoqualmie Pass and surrounds is gorgeous which automatically disqualifies it from Least Interesting.
Quote from: webny99 on August 05, 2024, 11:09:52 AM- Salt Lake City to Spokane comes close at 720 miles/10.5 hours. I can't personally compare the scenery to Denver-Vegas, but I bet it's pretty close.
For Salt Lake to Spokane, it's not particularly pretty by western standards from Salt Lake to about Spencer, Idaho, which is about 1/3 of that route. The Montana and Idaho portions are very nice though.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 05, 2024, 07:42:12 AMQuote from: vdeane on August 04, 2024, 09:28:43 PMAlbany/Montréal is certainly interesting to analyze. The portion through the Adirondacks is great, but there are also boring portions, especially north of Plattsburgh. ...
To me, while the scenery north of Plattsburgh is nothing special, I've always found it of interest when I come down out of the mountains and start seeing the bilingual road signs because it means that after driving for eight-plus hours, I'm finally approaching Canada. I suppose this is a significant difference as to where my trips originate versus where yours do, of course!
That does explain why I'm still willing to call I-87 north "interesting" south of Plattsburgh even though the mountains are only visible southbound. Also why I find A-15 to be fine heading nord but quite a drag heading sud.
Cincinnati to Knoxville on I-75.
Louisville to Charlottesville on I-64.
Charlotte to Cleveland on I-77.
The entirety of I-68.
Nashville to Asheville on I-40.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned US-395. If I tack on a bit of I-15 and I-215 in California, the two "major cities" would be San Bernardino and Spokane. There are a couple of boring parts near the two ends (Victor Valley in CA and central WA), but the rest of it is probably my favorite road. Too bad there's no major city north of Spokane, because that part is beautiful, too.
Quote from: webny99 on August 05, 2024, 11:26:11 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 05, 2024, 11:12:31 AMSeattle to Spokane on I-90.
LOL at this getting mentioned in both the "most interesting" and "most boring" threads.
About half of it would qualify as interesting/beautiful (Snoqualmie Pass, Vantage, scablands), and the remaining half as dreadfully boring (the straight and flat section from George to Ritzville).
Quote from: Bruce on August 05, 2024, 07:05:12 PMQuote from: webny99 on August 05, 2024, 11:26:11 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 05, 2024, 11:12:31 AMSeattle to Spokane on I-90.
LOL at this getting mentioned in both the "most interesting" and "most boring" threads.
About half of it would qualify as interesting/beautiful (Snoqualmie Pass, Vantage, scablands), and the remaining half as dreadfully boring (the straight and flat section from George to Ritzville).
Well, someone put St. Louis to Chicago in the other thread too, so I'll put it in this one to balance it out. There's the mystique of Route 66 that makes a great detour off I-55 (although admittedly, there's not half as much to see that's as noteworthy as anything further west), and of course, the Gateway Arch and Willis Tower will greet you approaching their respective cities.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 05, 2024, 11:12:31 AMSeattle to Spokane on I-90.
Agreed. Snoqualmie Pass is a nice drive in the summer. Matter of fact, I say Seattle to Billings! I-90 through Idaho and Western Montana is a sight to see.
Another underrated stretch is the Kansas Turnpike from Wichita to Topeka. The section through the Flint Hills is just incredible, especially in late spring when the hills turn green. And I do mean green!
I'm surprised I hadn't mentioned I-71 from Cincy to Louisville - fast but very hilly and far from monotonous! (Really stands out in comparison to the Ohio stretches of that same interstate)
Bend, Oregon had population 99K in the 2020 census so it's definitely over 100K by now. Portland to Bend via US 26 and US 97 is a pleasant ~160 mile drive with a lot of variety, everything from big metro area to forest to Mt. Hood to high desert. There's also plenty of good beer at each end of it.
I've recently made some driving trips from Indianapolis to Savannah, Georgia, and Hilton Head Island, South Carolina. I really enjoy I-40 between Knoxville, Tennessee, and Asheville, North Carolina. It can be a bit of a grind when the traffic is heavy, but when there are few cars on the road, it is a wonderful drive over and through that section of the Appalachians.
Quote from: Rushmeister on August 08, 2024, 09:48:47 AMI've recently made some driving trips from Indianapolis to Savannah, Georgia, and Hilton Head Island, South Carolina. I really enjoy I-40 between Knoxville, Tennessee, and Asheville, North Carolina. It can be a bit of a grind when the traffic is heavy, but when there are few cars on the road, it is a wonderful drive over and through that section of the Appalachians.
Knoxville <-> Asheville is certainly a much, much nicer drive than Knoxville <-> Nashville!
Mike
Richmond to Roanoke on US 360, VA 307, and US 460 is a lovely drive through some scenic and historic areas.
Quote from: mgk920 on August 08, 2024, 11:03:53 AMQuote from: Rushmeister on August 08, 2024, 09:48:47 AMI've recently made some driving trips from Indianapolis to Savannah, Georgia, and Hilton Head Island, South Carolina. I really enjoy I-40 between Knoxville, Tennessee, and Asheville, North Carolina. It can be a bit of a grind when the traffic is heavy, but when there are few cars on the road, it is a wonderful drive over and through that section of the Appalachians.
Knoxville <-> Asheville is certainly a much, much nicer drive than Knoxville <-> Nashville!
Mike
If you recommend the road between Knoxville and Asheville to someone, be sure to enunciate clearly.
Quote from: Rothman on August 05, 2024, 11:20:47 AMAlbany to Springfield?
Candidate for the worst, though I personally enjoy it. If taken as a segment for Redding to Portland, it qualifies as one of the best (but both Springfield-Albany and Salem-Wilsonville aren't high on the scenery).
In terms of distance, it clocks in around 425 miles.
Quote from: Bickendan on August 11, 2024, 05:29:18 PMQuote from: Rothman on August 05, 2024, 11:20:47 AMAlbany to Springfield?
Candidate for the worst, though I personally enjoy it. If taken as a segment for Redding to Portland, it qualifies as one of the best (but both Springfield-Albany and Salem-Wilsonville aren't high on the scenery).
In terms of distance, it clocks in around 425 miles.
Wrong side of the country.
Quote from: hotdogPi on August 11, 2024, 07:52:47 PMQuote from: Bickendan on August 11, 2024, 05:29:18 PMQuote from: Rothman on August 05, 2024, 11:20:47 AMAlbany to Springfield?
Candidate for the worst, though I personally enjoy it. If taken as a segment for Redding to Portland, it qualifies as one of the best (but both Springfield-Albany and Salem-Wilsonville aren't high on the scenery).
In terms of distance, it clocks in around 425 miles.
Wrong side of the country.
I'm amazed that a member of a what is more or less a travel forum would assume "Albany to Springfield?" in a vacuum is referring to Oregon.
Quote from: thspfc on August 11, 2024, 08:13:29 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on August 11, 2024, 07:52:47 PMQuote from: Bickendan on August 11, 2024, 05:29:18 PMQuote from: Rothman on August 05, 2024, 11:20:47 AMAlbany to Springfield?
Candidate for the worst, though I personally enjoy it. If taken as a segment for Redding to Portland, it qualifies as one of the best (but both Springfield-Albany and Salem-Wilsonville aren't high on the scenery).
In terms of distance, it clocks in around 425 miles.
Wrong side of the country.
I'm amazed that a member of a what is more or less a travel forum would assume "Albany to Springfield?" in a vacuum is referring to Oregon.
I thought it was a joke.
Quote from: Rothman on August 11, 2024, 08:34:46 PMQuote from: thspfc on August 11, 2024, 08:13:29 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on August 11, 2024, 07:52:47 PMQuote from: Bickendan on August 11, 2024, 05:29:18 PMQuote from: Rothman on August 05, 2024, 11:20:47 AMAlbany to Springfield?
Candidate for the worst, though I personally enjoy it. If taken as a segment for Redding to Portland, it qualifies as one of the best (but both Springfield-Albany and Salem-Wilsonville aren't high on the scenery).
In terms of distance, it clocks in around 425 miles.
Wrong side of the country.
I'm amazed that a member of a what is more or less a travel forum would assume "Albany to Springfield?" in a vacuum is referring to Oregon.
I thought it was a joke.
I would have if not for the last sentence.
To me anymore, the most interesting drive between two major cities is the 5 miles on Preston Road between Celina and Prosper. So much new stuff popping up every week. Both cities are now 50K+ and qualify as major cities.
Quote from: Road Hog on August 11, 2024, 08:51:23 PMTo me anymore, the most interesting drive between two major cities is the 5 miles on Preston Road between Celina and Prosper. So much new stuff popping up every week. Both cities are now 50K+ and qualify as major cities.
Never heard of them.
Not sure in what universe 50k = major city. :D
(FHWA sez, "Medium Urban" for 50-200k :D)
Quote from: thspfc on August 11, 2024, 08:37:07 PMQuote from: Rothman on August 11, 2024, 08:34:46 PMQuote from: thspfc on August 11, 2024, 08:13:29 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on August 11, 2024, 07:52:47 PMQuote from: Bickendan on August 11, 2024, 05:29:18 PMQuote from: Rothman on August 05, 2024, 11:20:47 AMAlbany to Springfield?
Candidate for the worst, though I personally enjoy it. If taken as a segment for Redding to Portland, it qualifies as one of the best (but both Springfield-Albany and Salem-Wilsonville aren't high on the scenery).
In terms of distance, it clocks in around 425 miles.
Wrong side of the country.
I'm amazed that a member of a what is more or less a travel forum would assume "Albany to Springfield?" in a vacuum is referring to Oregon.
I thought it was a joke.
I would have if not for the last sentence.
It was very a much tongue-in-cheek shift from the NY/MA context to the Oregon one.
Quote from: Road Hog on August 11, 2024, 08:51:23 PMTo me anymore, the most interesting drive between two major cities is the 5 miles on Preston Road between Celina and Prosper. So much new stuff popping up every week. Both cities are now 50K+ and qualify as major cities.
I have never considered a city of 50,000 to be a major city.
Quote from: Road Hog on August 11, 2024, 08:51:23 PMTo me anymore, the most interesting drive between two major cities is the 5 miles on Preston Road between Celina and Prosper. So much new stuff popping up every week. Both cities are now 50K+ and qualify as major cities.
Suburbs are not major cities.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 12, 2024, 10:23:52 AMSuburbs are not major cities
We have suburbs in Michigan that are bigger than the largest cities in about a half-dozen states. I'm sure other states have suburbs that are even larger.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 12, 2024, 10:23:52 AMQuote from: Road Hog on August 11, 2024, 08:51:23 PMTo me anymore, the most interesting drive between two major cities is the 5 miles on Preston Road between Celina and Prosper. So much new stuff popping up every week. Both cities are now 50K+ and qualify as major cities.
I have never considered a city of 50,000 to be a major city.Quote from: Road Hog on August 11, 2024, 08:51:23 PMTo me anymore, the most interesting drive between two major cities is the 5 miles on Preston Road between Celina and Prosper. So much new stuff popping up every week. Both cities are now 50K+ and qualify as major cities.
Suburbs are not major cities.
Agreed. I live in Aurora, the 52nd most populous city in the US, and I wouldn't call it a major city. Population is one of the characteristics, but not the only one.
I think we're unofficially using 100k as the threshold for "major city".
I would say 100k+ within an existing MSA could also qualify. That way we can include artificially small cities that anchor good sized metros like Harrisburg PA, Northwest Arkansas, and technically even Albany NY (as of the 2020 census).
I'm not sure why "between two major cities" is a meaningful criterion. Why not just "Most interesting drive"? Or aren't we all thinking "Most interesting drive between major cities that doesn't pass through any other major cities"? Otherwise, you know what's a really interesting drive? Lisbon to Singapore. Or so I've heard.
Quote from: pderocco on August 12, 2024, 03:49:25 PMI'm not sure why "between two major cities" is a meaningful criterion. Why not just "Most interesting drive"? Or aren't we all thinking "Most interesting drive between major cities that doesn't pass through any other major cities"? Otherwise, you know what's a really interesting drive? Lisbon to Singapore. Or so I've heard.
Well, the between two major cities part stemmed from a Twitter post talking about the least interesting drive between two major cities.
Re: passing through another major city, I'm fine including another city on the route if it's equally as interesting in both segments on the opposite side of the intermediate city. I would say that if you're using a longer route, the route between the two endpoints should be pretty obvious. I think you can talk about Seattle to San Diego pretty easily. I don't think you can talk about Seattle to Miami.
FWIW, I'd argue that plenty of the drive between Lisbon and Singapore actually isn't all that interesting -- the Central Asian steppe probably being the most "western Kansas"-like of the drive.
Quote from: Road Hog on August 11, 2024, 08:51:23 PMTo me anymore, the most interesting drive between two major cities is the 5 miles on Preston Road between Celina and Prosper. So much new stuff popping up every week. Both cities are now 50K+ and qualify as major cities.
Celina having 50k people already is NUTS. It's closer to Oklahoma than it is to downtown Dallas.
Quote from: webny99 on August 12, 2024, 03:12:11 PMI think we're unofficially using 100k as the threshold for "major city".
I would say 100k+ within an existing MSA could also qualify. That way we can include artificially small cities that anchor good sized metros like Harrisburg PA, Northwest Arkansas, and technically even Albany NY (as of the 2020 census).
I was using metro areas that were at least approximately Syracuse-sized.
Quote from: vdeane on August 12, 2024, 09:04:55 PMQuote from: webny99 on August 12, 2024, 03:12:11 PMI think we're unofficially using 100k as the threshold for "major city".
I would say 100k+ within an existing MSA could also qualify. That way we can include artificially small cities that anchor good sized metros like Harrisburg PA, Northwest Arkansas, and technically even Albany NY (as of the 2020 census).
I was using metro areas that were at least approximately Syracuse-sized.
I would be fine with 100k city proper or 500k MSA. That would include both Harrisburg and NWA while excluding most obvious fringe candidates.
Quote from: webny99 on August 12, 2024, 09:34:26 PMI would be fine with 100k city proper or 500k MSA. That would include both Harrisburg and NWA while excluding most obvious fringe candidates.
Do we even need a city proper threshold? I don't think anyone would have argued that the Capital District (Albany/Schenectady/Troy) isn't major prior to the last census (and even then, the metro area was bigger than Syracuse's), but it would not have met the definition. Granted, it's a bit of an oddball because instead of a traditional city center surrounded by increasingly less dense areas, it's multiple downtowns with suburbs and strip malls connecting them, with the geographic center being the suburban houses and strip malls of Colonie.
Quote from: GaryV on August 12, 2024, 10:44:21 AMQuote from: Flint1979 on August 12, 2024, 10:23:52 AMSuburbs are not major cities
We have suburbs in Michigan that are bigger than the largest cities in about a half-dozen states. I'm sure other states have suburbs that are even larger.
Detroit's largest suburbs are Warren and Sterling Heights, not really that big compared to some other areas. Those states like Vermont (I'm picking on them because Burlington is their largest city and is the smallest of the 50 states largest cities) I don't even consider to be a major city. I would say any city over 400,000 is a major city.
I think where I live in an urban area of about 120,000 people is a pretty decent sized area but I wouldn't consider Saginaw a major city. For the state of Michigan it might be but not on a national level. It is a well known city though. Detroit is the only city in Michigan I'd consider a major city.
Boise ID and Portland OR via I-84
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on August 13, 2024, 06:07:31 AMBoise ID and Portland OR via I-84
How others have left off the Columbia River Gorge is more appropriate.
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on August 13, 2024, 06:07:31 AMBoise ID and Portland OR via I-84
I'll be doing that in a couple weeks. I've already driven Portland to Pendleton, and Twin Falls to I-80, so I'm filling in that gap which includes Boise. I also really love US-97 and US-395 in Oregon, but they don't connect any major cities.
Quote from: pderocco on August 13, 2024, 02:15:09 PMQuote from: RoadWarrior56 on August 13, 2024, 06:07:31 AMBoise ID and Portland OR via I-84
I'll be doing that in a couple weeks. I've already driven Portland to Pendleton, and Twin Falls to I-80, so I'm filling in that gap which includes Boise. I also really love US-97 and US-395 in Oregon, but they don't connect any major cities.
Unfortunately, I think you've already done the interesting parts. :)
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 12, 2024, 11:18:28 PMQuote from: GaryV on August 12, 2024, 10:44:21 AMQuote from: Flint1979 on August 12, 2024, 10:23:52 AMSuburbs are not major cities
We have suburbs in Michigan that are bigger than the largest cities in about a half-dozen states. I'm sure other states have suburbs that are even larger.
Detroit's largest suburbs are Warren and Sterling Heights, not really that big compared to some other areas. Those states like Vermont (I'm picking on them because Burlington is their largest city and is the smallest of the 50 states largest cities) I don't even consider to be a major city. I would say any city over 400,000 is a major city.
Two suburban cities around Toronto are above 400 000: Mississauga (>700 000) and Brampton (>650 000). But calling them "major cities" feels wrong since they're suburbs of Toronto. I feel like both population and proximity to a larger city need to be factored into the definition of a major city, though of course it'll always be subjective.
Quote from: 7/8 on August 13, 2024, 02:35:21 PMQuote from: Flint1979 on August 12, 2024, 11:18:28 PMQuote from: GaryV on August 12, 2024, 10:44:21 AMQuote from: Flint1979 on August 12, 2024, 10:23:52 AMSuburbs are not major cities
We have suburbs in Michigan that are bigger than the largest cities in about a half-dozen states. I'm sure other states have suburbs that are even larger.
Detroit's largest suburbs are Warren and Sterling Heights, not really that big compared to some other areas. Those states like Vermont (I'm picking on them because Burlington is their largest city and is the smallest of the 50 states largest cities) I don't even consider to be a major city. I would say any city over 400,000 is a major city.
Two suburban cities around Toronto are above 400 000: Mississauga (>700 000) and Brampton (>650 000). But calling them "major cities" feels wrong since they're suburbs of Toronto. I feel like both population and proximity to a larger city need to be factored into the definition of a major city, though of course it'll always be subjective.
Agreed. Hence why I posted above that Aurora is not a "major city" for these purposes despite its 393k people. Denver is the major city.
In reality, we should be looking at metro areas vs. cities anyway.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 13, 2024, 02:24:14 PMQuote from: pderocco on August 13, 2024, 02:15:09 PMQuote from: RoadWarrior56 on August 13, 2024, 06:07:31 AMBoise ID and Portland OR via I-84
I'll be doing that in a couple weeks. I've already driven Portland to Pendleton, and Twin Falls to I-80, so I'm filling in that gap which includes Boise. I also really love US-97 and US-395 in Oregon, but they don't connect any major cities.
Unfortunately, I think you've already done the interesting parts. :)
The
really interesting parts, yes. But the rest in Oregon still looks pretty in Google Earth. I look forward to the drive.
Quote from: vdeane on August 12, 2024, 09:43:42 PMDo we even need a city proper threshold? I don't think anyone would have argued that the Capital District (Albany/Schenectady/Troy) isn't major prior to the last census (and even then, the metro area was bigger than Syracuse's), but it would not have met the definition.
It would still fit under the "500k metro" threshold.
If we were to eliminate the city proper threshold, some of the metro areas that would be excluded (>100k city proper, <500k metro) are:
Wilmington, NC
Lansing, MI
Springfield, MA
Fort Wayne, IN
Waterbury, CT
Corpus Christi, TX
Brownsville, TX
Savannah, GA
Mobile, AL
Montgomery, AL
Tallahassee, FL
Fargo, ND
Evansville, IN
I certainly don't have a problem with any of these cities being included, but most of them seem kind of like the lower bound for what we should include, so it just goes to show that a 500k metro threshold is probably about right.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 13, 2024, 02:46:11 PMQuoteQuoteDetroit's largest suburbs are Warren and Sterling Heights, not really that big compared to some other areas. Those states like Vermont (I'm picking on them because Burlington is their largest city and is the smallest of the 50 states largest cities) I don't even consider to be a major city. I would say any city over 400,000 is a major city.
Two suburban cities around Toronto are above 400 000: Mississauga (>700 000) and Brampton (>650 000). But calling them "major cities" feels wrong since they're suburbs of Toronto. I feel like both population and proximity to a larger city need to be factored into the definition of a major city, though of course it'll always be subjective.
Agreed. Hence why I posted above that Aurora is not a "major city" for these purposes despite its 393k people. Denver is the major city.
In reality, we should be looking at metro areas vs. cities anyway.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that we use suburbs in this thread, but even if they were, suburbs only make sense for this exercise to the extent that they serve as a gateway to the larger city anyways.
If someone says KC to Aurora, they might as well have said KC to Denver since you're really only talking about the stretch between the two metros' respective beltways to begin with.
Quote from: webny99 on August 13, 2024, 05:04:39 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on August 13, 2024, 02:46:11 PMQuoteQuoteDetroit's largest suburbs are Warren and Sterling Heights, not really that big compared to some other areas. Those states like Vermont (I'm picking on them because Burlington is their largest city and is the smallest of the 50 states largest cities) I don't even consider to be a major city. I would say any city over 400,000 is a major city.
Two suburban cities around Toronto are above 400 000: Mississauga (>700 000) and Brampton (>650 000). But calling them "major cities" feels wrong since they're suburbs of Toronto. I feel like both population and proximity to a larger city need to be factored into the definition of a major city, though of course it'll always be subjective.
Agreed. Hence why I posted above that Aurora is not a "major city" for these purposes despite its 393k people. Denver is the major city.
In reality, we should be looking at metro areas vs. cities anyway.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that we use suburbs in this thread, but even if they were, suburbs only make sense for this exercise to the extent that they serve as a gateway to the larger city anyways.
If someone says KC to Aurora, they might as well have said KC to Denver since you're really only talking about the stretch between the two metros' respective beltways to begin with.
It has been suggested that two 50k+ exurbs of the Metroplex should count.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 13, 2024, 05:40:23 PMIt has been suggested that two 50k+ exurbs of the Metroplex should count.
Somehow I missed the OP of the suburbs discussion...
Quote from: Road Hog on August 11, 2024, 08:51:23 PMTo me anymore, the most interesting drive between two major cities is the 5 miles on Preston Road between Celina and Prosper. So much new stuff popping up every week. Both cities are now 50K+ and qualify as major cities.
That's a fine observation, and I don't dispute that it's a very interesting drive, but conceptually this thread is about the drive between
separate major cities, so the drive between any two cities in the same MSA would not count regardless of their size.
Quote from: thspfc on August 12, 2024, 05:58:36 PMCelina having 50k people already is NUTS. It's closer to Oklahoma than it is to downtown Dallas.
To be fair, pretty much any named place could be 50k if they annex enough of the surrounding territory...
Since 2000 though both Collin and Denton counties went from about 430,000 to over 1 million in population now.