Since no one else has mentioned this on these boards, I thought I would.
Starting on Monday, September 20th, the southbound carpool lane on I-680 from CA-84 in Sunol to CA-237 in Milpitas will become northern California's first tolled Express Lane. Carpools with 2 or more will still be able to use the lane for free but solo drivers will be able to "buy" their way into the lane. Tolls will vary depending on how congested the normal lanes are and how congested the express lane is. Tolls will only be in effect from 5 AM to 8 PM Monday thru Friday which means solo drivers can use the lane for free during the overnight hours and on weekends.
I drove that section of 680 today to see how the lane is striped and signed. A few things stood out right away...
- Access to the express lane is restricted to certain entry and exit points (a first for northern California) but unlike southern California, the access points are either entry only or exit only (not both).
- The express lane is separated from the mixed flow lanes by a set of double WHITE lines instead of the white plus double yellow lines found in southern California. In a recent chat hosted by the San Jose Mercury News columnist Gary Richards (a.k.a. Mr. Roadshow) the folks who were responsible for the construction and operation of the express lane said the double white was a new Federal (FHWA) standard.
- For the first time I can recall, the express lane entry signage includes a black-on-yellow LEFT plaque mounted on the left side of the sign. It's placement on the sign is the same as a California-style numbered exit sign (like CA G83-4 or G85-10, *not* an independent tab). I'm not sure if this appropriate usage of the "LEFT" plaque but seeing it being used in California for the first time caught my attention.
- During the chat session hosted by Gary Richards, the officials operating the express lane said if speeds in the lane drop below 45 MPH, they have the option of closing the lane to solo drivers thus turing the lane back into a true carpool/HOV lane.
It will be interesting to see how this lane will operate and what kind of chaos will ensue for Monday's commute when the tolls go into effect. Thank goodness I don't need to drive that stretch of freeway to get to work.
I saw several vehicles crossing the double-white line in both directions.
I, too, drove the lanes today, and I took a bunch of not-so-great photos from behind the windshield at high speed while mostly going into the setting sun. That said, you can see 27 photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/radiomontana/sets/72157624985527464/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/radiomontana/sets/72157624985527464/)
Quote from: Kniwt on September 18, 2010, 11:28:33 PM
I saw several vehicles crossing the double-white line in both directions.
I, too, drove the lanes today, and I took a bunch of not-so-great photos from behind the windshield at high speed while mostly going into the setting sun. That said, you can see 27 photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/radiomontana/sets/72157624985527464/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/radiomontana/sets/72157624985527464/)
Oops, my mistake. Not sure what I was thinking because all HOV lanes (on freeways) are 2+. Those photos you took look pretty good. Now I have something to work off of to create signs like those. Thanks!
Damn, my concept signs were inaccurate. I'm going to have to edit them. :P Thanks for the news, Mark, and thanks for the pics Kniwt.
OK, here's what I whipped up on PowerPoint! :sombrero:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2FRoad%2520signs%2FI-680HOT1.png&hash=9c80005278cb4b7e5f7338715a010d025392d982)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2FRoad%2520signs%2FI-680HOT2.png&hash=55b8320d88ff307aedcf32f0aeafb67903c78e04)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2FRoad%2520signs%2FI-680HOT3.png&hash=920f69398bc3b95c667117715ed038d2115030af)
Since Route 262 is signed on the express lane overheads, that makes it only the third or so mention (after the two overhead green signs right at Exit 13) of that route number, period!
Kinda interesting how that road went from a completely unsigned connector for the first 35-36 years of its life, to now being prominently noted on the express lanes.
Quote from: TheStranger on September 19, 2010, 02:09:26 AM
Since Route 262 is signed on the express lane overheads, that makes it only the third or so mention (after the two overhead green signs right at Exit 13) of that route number, period!
Kinda interesting how that road went from a completely unsigned connector for the first 35-36 years of its life, to now being prominently noted on the express lanes.
Are there even reassurance shields on the highway? I don't really remember any. :P
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ksl.com%2Femedia%2Fslc%2F2347%2F234770%2F23477025.jpg&hash=3d8de8b2cc94fb17a4cdbe7c21bae5a66ec4799a)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.udot.utah.gov%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F08%2FSite-visits-079.jpg&hash=033430ad781b8755f9bf3a6f97b6000de988096c)
These photos are in Utah, and they practically have the same design. They even have the purple border around the toll logo! :O
Quote from: KEK Inc. on September 19, 2010, 02:29:44 AM
Are there even reassurance shields on the highway? I don't really remember any. :P
None that I recall. It's very much like Route 221 in Napa - that road is signed at its southern terminus, but with no trailblazers on the road itself.
Looks like KEK beat me to the punch. Here are two signs that I whipped up based on the photos by Kniwt...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2F680ExpressLn-1.png&hash=fa56c20764d3b38dae1cba87e6dd55bab71b3985)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Faaroads%2F680ExpressLn-2.png&hash=19bd0bdc362c51975222dc145071ac1e15a95986)
Judging by the size of VMS portion of the first sign, I think more than just the toll will be displayed. I blindly added travel times to the two exits but displaying the time saved by using the Express Lane would probably be more helpful. Just a thought.
Quote from: myosh_tino on September 18, 2010, 07:47:37 PM
I drove that section of 680 today to see how the lane is striped and signed. A few things stood out right away...
- Access to the express lane is restricted to certain entry and exit points (a first for northern California) but unlike southern California, the access points are either entry only or exit only (not both).
I don't think I've ever seen HOV/HOT lanes with separate entry and exit points quite like what was shown in the pictures, which seem to incorporate merging tapers into and out of the lane. The current MUTCD shows some similar entry/exit points with separate merging zones. A very interesting setup.
Quote- The express lane is separated from the mixed flow lanes by a set of double WHITE lines instead of the white plus double yellow lines found in southern California. In a recent chat hosted by the San Jose Mercury News columnist Gary Richards (a.k.a. Mr. Roadshow) the folks who were responsible for the construction and operation of the express lane said the double white was a new Federal (FHWA) standard.
The MUTCD specifies double white lines to prohibit lane changes between two lanes traveling in the same direction. This is nothing new, as it's been a standard since at least the Millennium Edition (probably longer). Caltrans' use of a white line adjacent to a double yellow line to separate HOV from regular lanes in Southern California has been a non-conforming marking for quite some time. So, a more likely explanation is that the California MUTCD has been (or will be) revised to adopt the federal standard for HOV lane separation.
Quote- For the first time I can recall, the express lane entry signage includes a black-on-yellow LEFT plaque mounted on the left side of the sign. It's placement on the sign is the same as a California-style numbered exit sign (like CA G83-4 or G85-10, *not* an independent tab). I'm not sure if this appropriate usage of the "LEFT" plaque but seeing it being used in California for the first time caught my attention.
According to the 2009 MUTCD, this is an appropriate use of the "LEFT" plaque. I still don't get why Caltrans won't use a separate tab even with new construction. Surely a short tab would have less wind loading than the entire width of the sign sticking up like a tab...
Quote from: roadfro on September 19, 2010, 09:13:41 PM
Quote- The express lane is separated from the mixed flow lanes by a set of double WHITE lines instead of the white plus double yellow lines found in southern California. In a recent chat hosted by the San Jose Mercury News columnist Gary Richards (a.k.a. Mr. Roadshow) the folks who were responsible for the construction and operation of the express lane said the double white was a new Federal (FHWA) standard.
The MUTCD specifies double white lines to prohibit lane changes between two lanes traveling in the same direction. This is nothing new, as it's been a standard since at least the Millennium Edition (probably longer). Caltrans' use of a white line adjacent to a double yellow line to separate HOV from regular lanes in Southern California has been a non-conforming marking for quite some time. So, a more likely explanation is that the California MUTCD has been (or will be) revised to adopt the federal standard for HOV lane separation.
It looks like California has eliminated the white+double yellow marking for a buffer-separated HOV lane as of the 2006 version of the California MUTCD. I suspect that for the more recent HOV lane projects on I-210 and on I-5 used the older striping style (white + double yellow) to maintain regional continuity (i.e. same markings on all southern California HOV lanes). Since this is the first application of a buffer-separated HOV lane up here, the decision to go with the current standard was adopted.
Even though it's been a federal standard for some time, we are not used to such markings as evidenced by the sheer number of complaints of drivers who cross the double white into and out of the express lane. I drove that section of freeway again today to get a few pictures and I saw at least a dozen or so cars (including an ambulance) cross the double white lines in an attempt to pass slower moving vehicles. I think it's going to take some time for drivers to get used to the way the express lane will operate and I'm afraid it's going to be complete chaos on I-680 tomorrow morning. I'm sure the CHP (who is responsible for patrolling the new express lane) will be *very* busy tomorrow.
Quote from: myosh_tino on September 19, 2010, 02:57:26 AM
Judging by the size of VMS portion of the first sign, I think more than just the toll will be displayed.
Looks like, at least today, only the toll was displayed, centered in the space. Here's a photo from the San Jose Mercury News:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fextras.mnginteractive.com%2Flive%2Fmedia%2Fsite568%2F2010%2F0920%2F20100920__20toll2%7E1_GALLERY.JPG&hash=491de5dd91b5263dfb72386d018c6c6cd74c561b)
Quote from: Kniwt on September 20, 2010, 11:49:11 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on September 19, 2010, 02:57:26 AM
Judging by the size of VMS portion of the first sign, I think more than just the toll will be displayed.
Looks like, at least today, only the toll was displayed, centered in the space. Here's a photo from the San Jose Mercury News:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fextras.mnginteractive.com%2Flive%2Fmedia%2Fsite568%2F2010%2F0920%2F20100920__20toll2%7E1_GALLERY.JPG&hash=491de5dd91b5263dfb72386d018c6c6cd74c561b)
Yeah, I saw that today on the Mercury News website. I still hold out hope that additional information like travel times will be added to the displays some day.
In Gary Richards' latest column, (http://"http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_16144205") he offers a theory about the extra-wide VMS signs:
QuoteQ Will the carpool lane ever be closed to toll payers?
A On occasion, yes. Federal rules require that the speeds in the express lane average at least 45 mph. If this lane jams up with toll-paying motorists, a "Carpools Only" message would be posted.
But let's look at one of those signs:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4149%2F5002702075_8af485461b.jpg&hash=bf4570f00939d31c3049a5f2a60027b5e21fd5ea)
I count 12 character positions, so CARPOOL ONLY could fit in there, but not CARPOOLS ONLY (unless it was CARPOOLSONLY). It could also be "HOV 2+ ONLY," but that seems unlikely.
Quote from: Kniwt on September 22, 2010, 05:18:47 PM
In Gary Richards' latest column, (http://"http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_16144205") he offers a theory about the extra-wide VMS signs:
QuoteQ Will the carpool lane ever be closed to toll payers?
A On occasion, yes. Federal rules require that the speeds in the express lane average at least 45 mph. If this lane jams up with toll-paying motorists, a "Carpools Only" message would be posted.
But let's look at one of those signs:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4149%2F5002702075_8af485461b.jpg&hash=bf4570f00939d31c3049a5f2a60027b5e21fd5ea)
I count 12 character positions, so CARPOOL ONLY could fit in there, but not CARPOOLS ONLY (unless it was CARPOOLSONLY). It could also be "HOV 2+ ONLY," but that seems unlikely.
"CARPOOLS"
"ONLY"
two lines
Quote from: AlpsROADS on September 22, 2010, 09:39:36 PM
"CARPOOLS"
"ONLY"
two lines
Not down at the next entrance to the express lane:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4107%2F5003307924_26d2462248.jpg&hash=d977cc28a190b4aedae3f216a66a56634cc86a70)
CARPULS is the new spelling.
Quote from: Kniwt on September 22, 2010, 05:18:47 PM
In Gary Richards' latest column, (http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_16144205) he offers a theory about the extra-wide VMS signs:
As a regular participant in Gary's weekly Roadshow chat, looks like one of my questions made it into his column. :D
Also, there are a couple of errors in Kniwt's link to the column. Here is the corrected link... http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_16144205 (http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_16144205)
For the completists (and artists?) who might be curious, the open-to-all VMS message in the 680 express lane during non-toll hours is, surprisingly enough, "OPEN TO ALL" centered in the space.
Quote from: Kniwt on September 26, 2010, 08:27:17 PM
For the completists (and artists?) who might be curious, the open-to-all VMS message in the 680 express lane during non-toll hours is, surprisingly enough, "OPEN TO ALL" centered in the space.
Yeah, I took a drive out that way today to see what the message would be. I was expecting to see "NO TOLL" or "OPEN-NO TOLL" or even a "$0.00" but instead got the "OPEN TO ALL" message that was reported by Kniwt.
Also, it appears (and rightfully so) that the FasTrak readers are turned off when the express lane is not collecting tolls. My transponder didn't beep once during the 14-mile trek.
This is quite probably a stupid question, but if the tolls work by just reading your transponder every so often, how do they know if you're carpooling?
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on September 26, 2010, 10:41:48 PM
This is quite probably a stupid question, but if the tolls work by just reading your transponder every so often, how do they know if you're carpooling?
They don't. You're just expected to put your transponder away (or put it in the accompanying mylar bag) in order to keep it from beeping.
So then people who don't have a transponder simply don't pay a toll? If that's how it works then why does ANYONE pay?
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on September 27, 2010, 03:14:13 PM
So then people who don't have a transponder simply don't pay a toll? If that's how it works then why does ANYONE pay?
No, people who don't have a transponder either have at least 2 or more occupants in the car (as it is a typical carpool lane otherwise), or risk being pulled over.
If I recall correctly, the tolling agency has set aside $200K per year to pay the CHP for patrolling and enforcing toll violations on the 680 Express Lane. The base fine for a toll violation is $381 (same as driving solo in a normal carpool lane) and when you add fees and court costs, the total penalty is well over $500.
I guess that makes sense. Sounds kinda difficult to enforce, but I guess not any more so than a regular HOV lane.
A drive down the express lane Saturday at about 7 p.m. wasn't very confidence-inspiring: The first entrance sign correctly proclaimed "OPEN TO ALL," but the other two entrance signs each incorrectly indicated a $0.30 toll to either Mission or Calaveras. And still lots of double-white-line-crossing going on.