MOD NOTE: This thread began as an offshoot from the "Interstate 11 alignment, though Vegas and points north" thread on the Pacific Southwest board, which was discussing the merits of ending I-11, temporarily or permanently, at the Mercury exit along US 95 northwest of Las Vegas. The topic split starting with the quoted portion of the following post. (Note that some of the initial posts in that were split off contain quoted material with context from that thread that isn't relevant here...I didn't feel like editing all those posts. —Roadfro (Pacific Southwest moderator)
Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 13, 2024, 01:30:09 PMQuote from: vdeaneYou do realize that plenty of interstates end at military bases, right? That's what Mercury is.
Lots of Interstate highways pass next to or within the vicinity of military bases. Very few of them actually start/end at military bases.
A fair amount of freeways begin/end at military bases, they aren't even necessarily are Interstates. CA 198 has a freeway that originates/ends at NAS Lemoore as an example.
Off the top of my brain, I know of I-H3, I-564, and I-781 for interstates. Am I missing any others?
Quote from: vdeane on August 13, 2024, 09:18:25 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on August 13, 2024, 12:52:23 PMThe exits on Interstate 11/US 95 jumping from 85 to 90 will, of course, become a moot point when they are renumbered to Interstate 11's mileage. Still, they should have renumbered the exits northwest of the Business 95/NV 599 interchange to correspond to the actual mileage of US 95, with the exits being numbered 86-94 instead of 90-99.
I measured out US 95 from the state line to exit 99 on Google Maps and those exit numbers are accurate of US 95's mileage (especially the mileage as it was before the Boulder City Bypass opened and it was 2/3 of a mile longer). It's the ones southeast of there that are wrong.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 13, 2024, 01:51:45 PMOff the top of my brain, I know of I-H3, I-564, and I-781 for interstates. Am I missing any others?
I-185
Close, but there's an END I-185 sign in its interchange with US-280. Google shows the spur as Lindsey Creek Pkwy, not that you can always trust Google's identification of roads.
Quote from: pderocco on August 14, 2024, 12:16:39 AMQuote from: vdeane on August 13, 2024, 09:18:25 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on August 13, 2024, 12:52:23 PMThe exits on Interstate 11/US 95 jumping from 85 to 90 will, of course, become a moot point when they are renumbered to Interstate 11's mileage. Still, they should have renumbered the exits northwest of the Business 95/NV 599 interchange to correspond to the actual mileage of US 95, with the exits being numbered 86-94 instead of 90-99.
I measured out US 95 from the state line to exit 99 on Google Maps and those exit numbers are accurate of US 95's mileage (especially the mileage as it was before the Boulder City Bypass opened and it was 2/3 of a mile longer). It's the ones southeast of there that are wrong.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 13, 2024, 01:51:45 PMOff the top of my brain, I know of I-H3, I-564, and I-781 for interstates. Am I missing any others?
I-185
Close, but there's an END I-185 sign in its interchange with US-280. Google shows the spur as Lindsey Creek Pkwy, not that you can always trust Google's identification of roads.
The sign is past the last off-ramp and on base property.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 13, 2024, 01:51:45 PMOff the top of my brain, I know of I-H3, I-564, and I-781 for interstates. Am I missing any others?
CA 1 at Point Mugu.
Quote from: RZF on August 14, 2024, 02:29:38 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on August 13, 2024, 01:51:45 PMOff the top of my brain, I know of I-H3, I-564, and I-781 for interstates. Am I missing any others?
CA 1 at Point Mugu.
CA 1 is not an interstate.
I-185 in Georgia?
Mike
Quote from: pderocco on August 14, 2024, 12:16:39 AMQuote from: vdeane on August 13, 2024, 09:18:25 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on August 13, 2024, 12:52:23 PMThe exits on Interstate 11/US 95 jumping from 85 to 90 will, of course, become a moot point when they are renumbered to Interstate 11's mileage. Still, they should have renumbered the exits northwest of the Business 95/NV 599 interchange to correspond to the actual mileage of US 95, with the exits being numbered 86-94 instead of 90-99.
I measured out US 95 from the state line to exit 99 on Google Maps and those exit numbers are accurate of US 95's mileage (especially the mileage as it was before the Boulder City Bypass opened and it was 2/3 of a mile longer). It's the ones southeast of there that are wrong.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 13, 2024, 01:51:45 PMOff the top of my brain, I know of I-H3, I-564, and I-781 for interstates. Am I missing any others?
I-185
Close, but there's an END I-185 sign in its interchange with US-280. Google shows the spur as Lindsey Creek Pkwy, not that you can always trust Google's identification of roads.
If we're going to be that persnickety, then I-781 doesn't count either (reference route east of US 11). But the point is, these roads end where they do because of the bases (in fact, I-781 wouldn't even
exist were it not for the military threatening to close the base if NYSDOT didn't build it). It's not like they were built for non-base purposes and the base just happened to be there, as people here seem to be implying.
Quote from: roadfro on August 14, 2024, 11:47:03 AMMakes me wonder how they picked mileposts and exit numbers to begin with, as I couldn't find anything with the old route that quite aligns to the exit numbers on the freeway...
I wonder if they just looked at what the US 95 mileage was on the west end and then started counting down.
Quote from: Rothman on August 14, 2024, 12:20:38 AMQuote from: pderocco on August 14, 2024, 12:16:39 AMQuote from: vdeane on August 13, 2024, 09:18:25 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on August 13, 2024, 12:52:23 PMThe exits on Interstate 11/US 95 jumping from 85 to 90 will, of course, become a moot point when they are renumbered to Interstate 11's mileage. Still, they should have renumbered the exits northwest of the Business 95/NV 599 interchange to correspond to the actual mileage of US 95, with the exits being numbered 86-94 instead of 90-99.
I measured out US 95 from the state line to exit 99 on Google Maps and those exit numbers are accurate of US 95's mileage (especially the mileage as it was before the Boulder City Bypass opened and it was 2/3 of a mile longer). It's the ones southeast of there that are wrong.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 13, 2024, 01:51:45 PMOff the top of my brain, I know of I-H3, I-564, and I-781 for interstates. Am I missing any others?
I-185
Close, but there's an END I-185 sign in its interchange with US-280. Google shows the spur as Lindsey Creek Pkwy, not that you can always trust Google's identification of roads.
The sign is past the last off-ramp and on base property.
Not in the year-old imagery I see: https://maps.app.goo.gl/LE1tAJLwaQPkLjHg7 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/LE1tAJLwaQPkLjHg7)
It's about 0.2 miles before the boundary sign.
Quote from: pderocco on August 14, 2024, 06:29:38 PMNot in the year-old imagery I see: https://maps.app.goo.gl/LE1tAJLwaQPkLjHg7 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/LE1tAJLwaQPkLjHg7)
It's about 0.2 miles before the boundary sign.
Such signage (both the boundary sign and the end sign) tends to be approximate and not absolute. Also, according to Google Maps, the base boundary is at US 280.
Next you'll have us believe that US 11 ends at the property line of the duty free (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0092609,-73.370504,3a,75y,345.89h,88.85t,2.1r/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syxjTbDSg2UJfE2mB8QlOmw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.1458320223012493%26panoid%3DyxjTbDSg2UJfE2mB8QlOmw%26yaw%3D345.88919785069027!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) and not the US/Canadian border. Or that Vermont now claims the Connecticut River (and a chunk of land east of it) (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6318959,-72.3225794,3a,19.3y,132.72h,88.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXSr0bkZa8RhYrOq-Gdfz6w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.5845789242923018%26panoid%3DXSr0bkZa8RhYrOq-Gdfz6w%26yaw%3D132.7176268970875!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu).
So then I-185 now officially ends at US 280, which is the property line of Fort Benning, and continues into the base as a base road.. Thanx!
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on August 15, 2024, 11:58:07 AMSo then I-185 now officially ends at US 280, which is the property line of Fort Benning, and continues into the base as a base road.. Thanx!
Mike
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Quote from: Rothman on August 15, 2024, 10:47:19 PMQuote from: mgk920 on August 15, 2024, 11:58:07 AMSo then I-185 now officially ends at US 280, which is the property line of Fort Benning, and continues into the base as a base road.. Thanx!
Mike
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
It seems some people are defining "not ending at a base" as "you don't need to go to the security checkpoint to clinch the road".
Quote from: vdeane on August 14, 2024, 07:31:13 PMQuote from: pderocco on August 14, 2024, 06:29:38 PMNot in the year-old imagery I see: https://maps.app.goo.gl/LE1tAJLwaQPkLjHg7 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/LE1tAJLwaQPkLjHg7)
It's about 0.2 miles before the boundary sign.
Such signage (both the boundary sign and the end sign) tends to be approximate and not absolute. Also, according to Google Maps, the base boundary is at US 280.
Fair enough. But unlike the other examples, this isn't a case where the interstate would have been a dangling stub were it not for the base. It's connecting to another full freeway.
Quote from: pderocco on August 16, 2024, 01:07:19 AMFair enough. But unlike the other examples, this isn't a case where the interstate would have been a dangling stub were it not for the base. It's connecting to another full freeway.
I mean, it ends when it crosses into base territory and the mainline lanes continue as a base road further in. I'm not sure how much more we can ask for given that Fort Moore is in a much more populated area and not a "dead end". And as I mentioned, I-781 isn't a "dangling stub" either.
In fact, IIRC, the only interstate requiring one to get to the security checkpoint to clinch it is I-H3.
So if the objection isn't "military bases aren't logical endpoints" but "there isn't another road to eliminate the 'dangling stub'", then it would seem the primary objection is it offending roadgeek sensibilities of what a 2di should be.
On the topics of military bases and freeways, here's one that has always intrigued me - Camp Lejeune in Jacksonville, NC.
It has a trumpet interchange connection to NC-24 (which is a freeway to the west for a few miles), has one at-grade intersection after the gate, but after that, fully on base and not publicly accessible, is a full freeway for 6 miles.
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 17, 2024, 12:45:11 PMOn the topics of military bases and freeways, here's one that has always intrigued me - Camp Lejeune in Jacksonville, NC.
It has a trumpet interchange connection to NC-24 (which is a freeway to the west for a few miles), has one at-grade intersection after the gate, but after that, fully on base and not publicly accessible, is a full freeway for 6 miles.
I wonder what it's speed limit is. Or what you get if you exceed it.
Probably 45 MPH tops given it is out east. The highest speed limit I've ever run into on any military maintained road is 55 MPH.
The speed limit on Wilson Blvd inside of Camp Lejeune is 55 mph. It was originally 45 mph for its first couple of years.
https://www.facebook.com/story.php/?story_fbid=1500013533368172&id=100064248896795
Roads around/through military bases often have lower speed limits even if they aren't military maintained. US 27/280 through Fort Moore (formerly Fort Benning) is 55 mph, despite Georgia allowing 65 mph on 4-lane divided roads and the fact that there are not even any at-grade intersections in that section. Both 27 and 280 go up to 65 after you pass Cusseta. The 55 mph limit is pretty much universally ignored in my experience.
Quote from: US 89 on August 18, 2024, 10:53:15 AMRoads around/through military bases often have lower speed limits even if they aren't military maintained. US 27/280 through Fort Moore (formerly Fort Benning) is 55 mph, despite Georgia allowing 65 mph on 4-lane divided roads and the fact that there are not even any at-grade intersections in that section. Both 27 and 280 go up to 65 after you pass Cusseta. The 55 mph limit is pretty much universally ignored in my experience.
Interestingly, VDOT has a similar road (US-301) that goes right through Fort A.P. Hill with overpasses, it was posted at 55 mph for the longest time (the maximum state law allowed), but once US-301 was added to the list of roadways permitted for 60 mph where divided a few years ago, it was increased through that area to 60 mph.
Quote from: US 89 on August 18, 2024, 10:53:15 AMRoads around/through military bases often have lower speed limits even if they aren't military maintained. US 27/280 through Fort Moore (formerly Fort Benning) is 55 mph, despite Georgia allowing 65 mph on 4-lane divided roads and the fact that there are not even any at-grade intersections in that section. Both 27 and 280 go up to 65 after you pass Cusseta. The 55 mph limit is pretty much universally ignored in my experience.
To bring this back to the southwest: I-5 goes through Pendleton, and I-15 goes through Miramar. Both (IIRC) have at least 65 mph limits.
I-90 is normal speed through fort McCoy here in Wisconsin.
Mike
Quote from: cahwyguy on August 18, 2024, 11:10:43 AMQuote from: US 89 on August 18, 2024, 10:53:15 AMRoads around/through military bases often have lower speed limits even if they aren't military maintained. US 27/280 through Fort Moore (formerly Fort Benning) is 55 mph, despite Georgia allowing 65 mph on 4-lane divided roads and the fact that there are not even any at-grade intersections in that section. Both 27 and 280 go up to 65 after you pass Cusseta. The 55 mph limit is pretty much universally ignored in my experience.
To bring this back to the southwest: I-5 goes through Pendleton, and I-15 goes through Miramar. Both (IIRC) have at least 65 mph limits.
What? Oh! You mean
Camp Pendleton! There's also a city Pendleton which I-84 (western) goes through...
There is a substantial distinction some of you are missing regarding the differing standards between DOT and DOD maintained roads.
Yes, I rather doubt that the Marines set the speed limit on I-5.
I was wondering if the military tends to set speed limits around the base that are comparable to, higher than, or lower than most cities or towns. And also, whether they have a different kind of punishment for violations than citing you and giving you the option of traffic school.
Quote from: pderocco on August 20, 2024, 01:07:30 AMYes, I rather doubt that the Marines set the speed limit on I-5.
I was wondering if the military tends to set speed limits around the base that are comparable to, higher than, or lower than most cities or towns. And also, whether they have a different kind of punishment for violations than citing you and giving you the option of traffic school.
I've found that most limits are artificially low and the practice of speed traps is prevalent. Pretty much every base I've worked on has a system based on 12 points and is annualized. If you get 12 points in a year then you are barred from driving on base (be you civilian or military). The traffic infractions don't carry over to the real world if you are civilian. Certain infractions like DUIs carry 12 points and will result in an immediate driving barment. Most bases have a barment lot near a main gate/entryway where personnel can park and walk on.
I grew up as a Marine Corps brat. Bases/posts do tend to set lower speed limits aboard their property. Penalties for ordinary offenses like speeding aren't generally any different than they are in civilian areas. Fine levels could vary. Some bases/posts have shifted from using military personnel to staff the guard houses at gates and do other traffic enforcement duties. They often have civilian law enforcement officers doing that work now. More secure military installations may have military personnel doing all the security and law enforcement work.
The military has no jurisdiction on speed limits for highways used by the general population. That's up to the stage agencies. I-44 passes through the middle of Fort Sill. ODOT sets the speed limit and OHP does the traffic enforcement.
Regarding I-185 inside Fort Benning Moore, I recall about 25 years ago there being I-185 trailblazer shields inside the gate at one of the interchanges (I want to say at what is now Marne Rd). I might have even gotten a picture or two but that was several years before I got a digital camera and I subsequently lost all my film photos to Hurricane Katrina.
On a related note to the sub-thread, it's not an Interstate but the All-American Freeway continues for a stretch inside the gate at Fort Bragg Liberty.
Looks like nobody has yet mentioned the aptly-named All American Freeway in Fayetteville, North Carolina, directly serving the entrance to Fort Liberty (formerly known as Fort Bragg).
Quote from: Dirt Roads on August 21, 2024, 08:56:31 PMLooks like nobody has yet mentioned the aptly-named All American Freeway in Fayetteville, North Carolina, directly serving the entrance to Fort Liberty (formerly known as Fort Bragg).
Look at the post right before yours (posted the day before).
Ouch! If it were a snake...
Quote from: froggie on August 20, 2024, 05:13:36 PMOn a related note to the sub-thread, it's not an Interstate but the All-American Freeway continues for a stretch inside the gate at Fort Bragg Liberty.
The transition from Owen Drive onto the freeway is so wild haha.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on August 22, 2024, 07:30:54 AMOuch! If it were a snake...
Fortunately for you, I don't bite...
much
My mom had a short-haired dachshund named Pepper that tried to attack a frog once. That dog sneezed her ass off afterward.
I never liked dachshunds. They shit like grizzly bears wherever. Completely un-house-break-able.