I thought about posting this in Random Thoughts but I figured a thread was better.
I'm defining "large" to be an enrollment size of 10,000+ students (there's plenty of small universities/colleges that are purely regional). Also excluding university systems (ex. Texas, Penn State, UNC...basically every state school) and online schools (so stuff like Western Governors University is excluded).
Some examples that strike out to me:
-I'm surprised UAB (University of Alabama, Birmingham) isn't the flagship campus, but is now the largest employer in Birmingham. 'Bama is about as old as the state itself, so it seems like Tuscaloosa was intended to be a college town right from the get go. Meanwhile Auburn is also far from a major city, though I guess you could argue that it's close to the state capital of Montgomery. Interestingly, Auburn's located in the Black Belt of Alabama yet doesn't have a HBCU history.
-Washington State really strikes out to me. That is about as isolated as you can get; imagine if Oregon State was located along US 95, or if Kansas decided to set up shop in Dodge City instead of Lawrence. It's also really close to the University of Idaho, which I'm guessing was for cooperation's sake. Still though, why is the state school located as far away from Seattle as humanly possible?
-Oklahoma State's location in Stillwater. I guess it's supposed to be located between OKC and Tulsa, though the location favors OKC. Makes sense but doesn't erase the fact that Stillwater is in the middle of nowhere.
-Ole Miss and Mississippi State are both located away from major interstates and nowhere near any major cities. Ole Miss is fairly close to Memphis (83 miles), though Memphis already has the University of Memphis.
-The University of Florida is off of I-75 but is nowhere near anything. Closest city is Jacksonville (73 miles).
-The University of Illinois is nowhere near anything major in Illinois (not the state capital in Springfield nor Chicago). I guess this makes sense because Chicago already has a ton of major universities (Northwestern and University of Chicago off the top of my head), but usually the state school is in the state capital (MSU, OSU, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona).
-Indiana University isn't terribly far from Bloomington and IN 37 has been 4 lanes for a while, but why isn't the major state school in Indianapolis?
-Ohio University is very very far from the major C cities in Ohio. Justified that each C city has a major university (Cincinnati, Ohio State, Case Western + Kent State). Probably a historical reason as to why Ohio University is in the middle of Southern Ohio and not off an interstate.
-Penn State is egregiously far from Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, though the distances favor Pittsburgh. It's probably the most notable landmark off of I-80 in PA. To be fair, there's already established schools in both cities (Pitt in...Pittsburgh, and Penn/Nova/Temple in Philly). PSU should really be in Harrisburg, but here we are.
Saint Leo University last I checked was within earshot of 10,000 students. It is pretty much in the middle of rural Pasco County in the town of the same name. The traffic pattern on FL 52 always suggested to me that the bulk of the students were coming from Tampa.
UConn feels like it's in the middle of nowhere.
Quote from: Rothman on August 22, 2024, 11:44:14 PMUConn feels like it's in the middle of nowhere.
By Connecticut standards? I'd call that middle of nowhere (in the eastern part of the state and 26 miles from Hartford, an eternity when stuck in New England traffic).
Might as well mention that UMass is also kinda isolated. Makes more sense for it to be in Springfield or Worcester (or in true state school tradition, put it in Boston and rename it University of Boston).
I've always felt U of Minnesota lost something sitting right next to downtown Minneapolis. None of the major U of MN campus locations are great classic college towns.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 22, 2024, 11:55:41 PMQuote from: Rothman on August 22, 2024, 11:44:14 PMUConn feels like it's in the middle of nowhere.
By Connecticut standards? I'd call that middle of nowhere (in the eastern part of the state and 26 miles from Hartford, an eternity when stuck in New England traffic).
Might as well mention that UMass is also kinda isolated. Makes more sense for it to be in Springfield or Worcester (or in true state school tradition, put it in Boston and rename it University of Boston).
Storrs feels even more rural than the Amherst/Northampton area. Also, Amherst, Smith and Mount Holyoke Colleges are in the area....heard something about Hampshire avoiding outright closure...
Tangent: The casino in Springfield makes it look like Biff Tannen's Hill Valley...
Quote from: Rothman on August 22, 2024, 11:59:49 PMTangent: The casino in Springfield makes it look like Biff Tannen's Hill Valley...
Biff Tannen's Pleasure Paradise
"Welcome Bikers"
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 12:03:27 AMQuote from: Rothman on August 22, 2024, 11:59:49 PMTangent: The casino in Springfield makes it look like Biff Tannen's Hill Valley...
Biff Tannen's Pleasure Paradise
"Welcome Bikers"
One of the few okayish things that Biff did with his fortune was successfully lobbying to legalize gambling.
The University of Arkansas was located in Fayetteville in 1871 in order to avoid malaria, as I have been told.
More on the skeeter problem from the university itself:
https://arthropod.uark.edu/arkansas-arthropods-in-history-and-folklore/
...Oh, you mean universities that just aren't in a very big town. Saint John's University is super interesting to me even though the student population isn't very large. It is sort of close to Saint Cloud, MN, but there is literally nothing but farmland immediately surrounding the university. It's actually pretty jarring to drive through, because you would never expect a university to be there.
U of Arizona is in Tucson, not Phoenix; Arizona State is near Phoenix (in Tempe).
Oregon State finds itself in Corvallis, a small town between Eugene and Salem not along I-5.
U of Georgia in Athens is far-enough away from Atlanta.
If we want to consider towns like Las Cruces and Lubbock as "in the middle of nowhere", then NM State and Texas Tech fit the shoe.
Kansas State in Manhattan, KS (ironic town name) is in the middle of nowhere.
Military Academy at West Point, NY has to fit this list.
Interestingly enough my alma mater, Cal State Channel Islands (enrollment ~7500), is located in a rural part of Southern California, roughly a 10-15 minute drive from the nearest town. It was placed on the site of a former mental hospital.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 22, 2024, 11:32:45 PM-Oklahoma State's location in Stillwater. I guess it's supposed to be located between OKC and Tulsa, though the location favors OKC. Makes sense but doesn't erase the fact that Stillwater is in the middle of nowhere.
Its original name was Oklahoma Agricultural & Mechanical College. Makes sense to have a college primarily teaching agriculture in the middle of nowhere. It's since expanded into a general-purpose university, although it still focuses more on rural-oriented stuff.
Many of the universities mentioned in this thread (including OSU, KSU, and WSU) are land-grant universities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university) that were established by the federal government granting the states a large tract of land, of which a small portion was retained for the campus and the rest sold off to fund the construction and operation of the university. Large tracts of federal land are not found in developed areas. Instead they're in...the middle of nowhere.
WSU was placed in a very fertile region (the Palouse) primarily to study agriculture and other sciences that would benefit the rural sides of Washington. Pullman offered plenty of land and had good railroad connections at the time to Spokane and Portland, so the state government was convinced.
Washington really should have more large universities given its size and wealth, but UW and WSU basically run the show. WSU has even expanded to Vancouver (WA) and Everett after UW pulled out of building a campus for the latter.
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 23, 2024, 12:27:29 AM...Oh, you mean universities that just aren't in a very big town. Saint John's University is super interesting to me even though the student population isn't very large. It is sort of close to Saint Cloud, MN, but there is literally nothing but farmland immediately surrounding the university. It's actually pretty jarring to drive through, because you would never expect a university to be there.
From my eyes it looks like one of those regional Catholic colleges. I was gonna point out Saint Francis University in PA; Loretto is basically a golf course (thanks to a D1 basketball team) and a restaurant -- there's not even any traffic lights. However that is definitely one of the weirder colleges around; it's an exit off I-94 and surrounded by lakes.
Quote from: RZF on August 23, 2024, 12:44:42 AMU of Arizona is in Tucson, not Phoenix; Arizona State is near Phoenix (in Tempe).
Oregon State finds itself in Corvallis, a small town between Eugene and Salem not along I-5.
U of Georgia in Athens is far-enough away from Atlanta.
If we want to consider towns like Las Cruces and Lubbock as "in the middle of nowhere", then NM State and Texas Tech fit the shoe.
Kansas State in Manhattan, KS (ironic town name) is in the middle of nowhere.
Military Academy at West Point, NY has to fit this list.
I guess the question to be asked in this thread is, "If you removed the university, would the town still exist?" Towns like Manhattan, KS or Storrs, CT probably won't exist if you remove their universities. Las Cruces and Lubbock definitely could survive without NMSU or Texas Tech. I think Molandfreak best stated it (big universities in tiny towns).
Quote from: RZF on August 23, 2024, 12:44:42 AMInterestingly enough my alma mater, Cal State Channel Islands (enrollment ~7500), is located in a rural part of Southern California, roughly a 10-15 minute drive from the nearest town. It was placed on the site of a former mental hospital.
I forget which college this was (Texas Tech? University of Houston? It was a major college in Texas), but they converted a Motel 6 into dorm housing. Supposedly even the hotel furniture and outdoor swimming pool was kept.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 23, 2024, 12:52:29 AMMany of the universities mentioned in this thread (including OSU, KSU, and WSU) are land-grant universities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university) that were established by the federal government granting the states a large tract of land, of which a small portion was retained for the campus and the rest sold off to fund the construction and operation of the university. Large tracts of federal land are not found in developed areas. Instead they're in...the middle of nowhere.
Good read!
It also looks like the Morrill Act retroactively designated some colleges as land grants. Several of the colleges named in the 1862 act were already open and operating (Wisconsin, Auburn, Rutgers, Tennessee, Vermont) though the towns they were located in were pretty backwater at the time. Technically, PSU and Michigan State were built before the Morrill Act, but I know that in PSU's case they hadn't actually accepted students and graduated a class.
This also means the University of California system (Berkeley, UCLA, UC Davis, UC San Diego) are all land grants even though some are located next to or inside cities.
Speaking of California, the California
State University system -- which is another public system that does
not consist of land grant universities -- are derived from normal schools (aka teacher schools). Chico is the only university that fits this thread; the rest are located in LA/Bay Area/San Diego, and some have grown to be bigger than others (SDSU, Fullerton).
Quote from: Bruce on August 23, 2024, 12:55:55 AMWSU was placed in a very fertile region (the Palouse) primarily to study agriculture and other sciences that would benefit the rural sides of Washington. Pullman offered plenty of land and had good railroad connections at the time to Spokane and Portland, so the state government was convinced.
Washington really should have more large universities given its size and wealth, but UW and WSU basically run the show. WSU has even expanded to Vancouver (WA) and Everett after UW pulled out of building a campus for the latter.
Eastern Washington is Division I FCS, and of course there's Gonzaga. But Western and Central are probably large enough to support at least a jump to FCS.
Quote from: Road Hog on August 23, 2024, 01:30:35 AMEastern Washington is Division I FCS, and of course there's Gonzaga. But Western and Central are probably large enough to support at least a jump to FCS.
I should clarify that I meant Washington should have more large public universities. There's 5 major four-year universities in the state that have a combined enrollment of 131,000 students while a state of comparable population (Virginia) has over 200,000 students spread across 7 universities. A few community colleges have started adding bachelor's programs to try and compensate for the lack of major four-year institutions out here.
FWIW, the University of Illinois - Urbana is located where it is because when Illinois was debating taking advantage of the opportunity from the Morrill Land-Grant, local officials from various communities around the state lobbied the state...and Urbana won.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 22, 2024, 11:32:45 PM.... Interestingly, Auburn's located in the Black Belt of Alabama yet doesn't have a HBCU history.
....
I had always understood that the term "Black Belt" was originally a reference to the highly fertile black soil in that part of the country and not so much to the skin color of laborers in that area. Either way, though, the historically black university in that part of Alabama is a relatively short distance down the road in Tuskegee; it was founded in 1881, about 25 years after Auburn University and, perhaps unsurprisingly, after the War Between the States but before Jim Crow really took hold.
Michigan Technological University is in the middle of nowhere. It's 200 miles from the nearest cities (Duluth MN and Green Bay WI). It was originally the Michigan Mining School and was established in the mining country.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 22, 2024, 11:32:45 PMI thought about posting this in Random Thoughts but I figured a thread was better.
I'm defining "large" to be an enrollment size of 10,000+ students (there's plenty of small universities/colleges that are purely regional). Also excluding university systems (ex. Texas, Penn State, UNC...basically every state school) and online schools (so stuff like Western Governors University is excluded).
Some examples that strike out to me:
-Indiana University isn't terribly far from Bloomington and IN 37 has been 4 lanes for a while, but why isn't the major state school in Indianapolis?
First of all, thanks for properly identifying it as Indiana University and not the University of Indiana.
Secondly, when it was founded in 1820, nearly all of the state's population lived in the southern half and the capital was still at Corydon.
Longwood University is a moderately large school (about 5,000 students) well removed from any nearby metropolitan areas in Virginia - Farmville is roughly halfway between Richmond and Lynchburg.
Although it's not a university, the Appalachian College of Pharmacy is located in Oakwood, Virginia, which is basically in the middle of nowhere (about 30 minutes from Richlands). It only offers Doctor of Pharmacy degrees but has a relatively large enrollment (about 150 students). The related Appalachian School of Law is in Grundy, which is an incorporated town but only has a population of about 850 people.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 22, 2024, 11:32:45 PM-I'm surprised UAB (University of Alabama, Birmingham) isn't the flagship campus, but is now the largest employer in Birmingham. 'Bama is about as old as the state itself, so it seems like Tuscaloosa was intended to be a college town right from the get go.
The Alabama's capital was once in Tuscaloosa, which explains it.
Would Cornell University count? It's not near any major city in NY state.
Quote from: steviep24 on August 23, 2024, 10:43:09 AMWould Cornell University count? It's not near any major city in NY state.
Ithaca is large enough to have a recognized metropolitan area, so probably not.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on August 23, 2024, 10:01:17 AMLongwood University is a moderately large school (about 5,000 students) well removed from any nearby metropolitan areas in Virginia - Farmville is roughly halfway between Richmond and Lynchburg.
Although it's not a university, the Appalachian College of Pharmacy is located in Oakwood, Virginia, which is basically in the middle of nowhere (about 30 minutes from Richlands). It only offers Doctor of Pharmacy degrees but has a relatively large enrollment (about 150 students). The related Appalachian School of Law is in Grundy, which is an incorporated town but only has a population of about 850 people.
You missed the obvious one in the Old Dominion: Virginia Tech. Back when I went there, Blacksburg was still a little town that would have vanished if the university disappeared. Today, the town is a thriving hub of technology. I suspect that the BEV (Blacksburg Electronic Village) would still keep going if somebody moved Lane Stadium down the hill into Roanoke.
Although it is located in the state's capitol city, the University of Nebraska as always struck me as being 'middle of nowhereish'.
Mike
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on August 23, 2024, 08:52:43 AMQuote from: noelbotevera on August 22, 2024, 11:32:45 PMI thought about posting this in Random Thoughts but I figured a thread was better.
I'm defining "large" to be an enrollment size of 10,000+ students (there's plenty of small universities/colleges that are purely regional). Also excluding university systems (ex. Texas, Penn State, UNC...basically every state school) and online schools (so stuff like Western Governors University is excluded).
Some examples that strike out to me:
-Indiana University isn't terribly far from Bloomington and IN 37 has been 4 lanes for a while, but why isn't the major state school in Indianapolis?
First of all, thanks for properly identifying it as Indiana University and not the University of Indiana.
Secondly, when it was founded in 1820, nearly all of the state's population lived in the southern half and the capital was still at Corydon.
A couple of things....Indiana University is actually "in" Bloomington, IN and not near. I guess it is possible that they have not annexed it, but the city surrounds it. and Indianapolis was also founded in 1820 to be the state capitol, but that likely occurred after the founding of the seminary that became IU, since that occurred early in the year.
Quote from: mgk920 on August 23, 2024, 12:58:51 PMAlthough it is located in the state's capitol city, the University of Nebraska as always struck me as being 'middle of nowhereish'.
Mike
Right, smack dab in the middle of the 2nd largest city in the state, with a population of almost 300,000 people, cannot be remotely considered in the middle of nowhere.
See other post about university names. As noted above, many X State Universities are located where they are because the are Morrill Act or land grant universities. They needed to be in rural areas. Hence Ames, Manhattan, Stillwater, etc.
In Wyoming, when the state was formed, there several political plums: State Capital, University, Prison, and Mental Institution. All of the major towns were in the south along the railroad. They drew lots and then picked. Capital in Cheyenne, University in Laramie, Prison in Rawlins and Mental Institution in Rock Springs.
Similar to Wyoming, communities were often in open competition with each other to be the homes of these public state universities because they could see the future economic benefits.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on August 23, 2024, 12:51:38 PMQuote from: WillWeaverRVA on August 23, 2024, 10:01:17 AMLongwood University is a moderately large school (about 5,000 students) well removed from any nearby metropolitan areas in Virginia - Farmville is roughly halfway between Richmond and Lynchburg.
Although it's not a university, the Appalachian College of Pharmacy is located in Oakwood, Virginia, which is basically in the middle of nowhere (about 30 minutes from Richlands). It only offers Doctor of Pharmacy degrees but has a relatively large enrollment (about 150 students). The related Appalachian School of Law is in Grundy, which is an incorporated town but only has a population of about 850 people.
You missed the obvious one in the Old Dominion: Virginia Tech. Back when I went there, Blacksburg was still a little town that would have vanished if the university disappeared. Today, the town is a thriving hub of technology. I suspect that the BEV (Blacksburg Electronic Village) would still keep going if somebody moved Lane Stadium down the hill into Roanoke.
Good point. I didn't think about the fact that Virginia Tech is basically why Blacksburg and Christiansburg are the way they are today.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on August 23, 2024, 01:11:14 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on August 23, 2024, 08:52:43 AMQuote from: noelbotevera on August 22, 2024, 11:32:45 PMI thought about posting this in Random Thoughts but I figured a thread was better.
I'm defining "large" to be an enrollment size of 10,000+ students (there's plenty of small universities/colleges that are purely regional). Also excluding university systems (ex. Texas, Penn State, UNC...basically every state school) and online schools (so stuff like Western Governors University is excluded).
Some examples that strike out to me:
-Indiana University isn't terribly far from Bloomington and IN 37 has been 4 lanes for a while, but why isn't the major state school in Indianapolis?
First of all, thanks for properly identifying it as Indiana University and not the University of Indiana.
Secondly, when it was founded in 1820, nearly all of the state's population lived in the southern half and the capital was still at Corydon.
A couple of things....Indiana University is actually "in" Bloomington, IN and not near. I guess it is possible that they have not annexed it, but the city surrounds it. and Indianapolis was also founded in 1820 to be the state capitol, but that likely occurred after the founding of the seminary that became IU, since that occurred early in the year.
Back in the 1970s, Bloomington was much, much smaller and the divide between the University and community was much starker. I was just back there for the first time in 40 years and couldn't believe the growth.
With regards to HBCUs, I've always been struck by how remote Alcorn State University, Mississippi State Valley University, and Prairie View A&M University (to a lesser extent) are.
Also, Texas A&M being as big as it is in a city as small as college station is is somewhat noteworthy.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on August 23, 2024, 12:51:38 PMQuote from: WillWeaverRVA on August 23, 2024, 10:01:17 AMLongwood University is a moderately large school (about 5,000 students) well removed from any nearby metropolitan areas in Virginia - Farmville is roughly halfway between Richmond and Lynchburg.
Although it's not a university, the Appalachian College of Pharmacy is located in Oakwood, Virginia, which is basically in the middle of nowhere (about 30 minutes from Richlands). It only offers Doctor of Pharmacy degrees but has a relatively large enrollment (about 150 students). The related Appalachian School of Law is in Grundy, which is an incorporated town but only has a population of about 850 people.
You missed the obvious one in the Old Dominion: Virginia Tech. Back when I went there, Blacksburg was still a little town that would have vanished if the university disappeared. Today, the town is a thriving hub of technology. I suspect that the BEV (Blacksburg Electronic Village) would still keep going if somebody moved Lane Stadium down the hill into Roanoke.
Yeah, Virginia Tech was on my mind but I somehow missed it. What makes Virginia Tech strange is that it's somehow a military school even though it's a land grant school (so it's traditionally associated with agriculture and engineering).
I was also going to mention Virginia (University of Virginia), but Charlottesville has been significant since colonial times given that Thomas Jefferson lived there for forever. Oddly enough for its size, Northern Virginia only has one major university (George Mason), and GMU has no affiliation with the "state schools" of VT and UVA.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 03:42:58 PMQuote from: Dirt Roads on August 23, 2024, 12:51:38 PMQuote from: WillWeaverRVA on August 23, 2024, 10:01:17 AMLongwood University is a moderately large school (about 5,000 students) well removed from any nearby metropolitan areas in Virginia - Farmville is roughly halfway between Richmond and Lynchburg.
Although it's not a university, the Appalachian College of Pharmacy is located in Oakwood, Virginia, which is basically in the middle of nowhere (about 30 minutes from Richlands). It only offers Doctor of Pharmacy degrees but has a relatively large enrollment (about 150 students). The related Appalachian School of Law is in Grundy, which is an incorporated town but only has a population of about 850 people.
You missed the obvious one in the Old Dominion: Virginia Tech. Back when I went there, Blacksburg was still a little town that would have vanished if the university disappeared. Today, the town is a thriving hub of technology. I suspect that the BEV (Blacksburg Electronic Village) would still keep going if somebody moved Lane Stadium down the hill into Roanoke.
Yeah, Virginia Tech was on my mind but I somehow missed it. What makes Virginia Tech strange is that it's somehow a military school even though it's a land grant school (so it's traditionally associated with agriculture and engineering).
I was also going to mention Virginia (University of Virginia), but Charlottesville has been significant since colonial times given that Thomas Jefferson lived there for forever. Oddly enough for its size, Northern Virginia only has one major university (George Mason), and GMU has no affiliation with the "state schools" of VT and UVA.
GMU was founded as a branch of the University of Virginia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mason_University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mason_University)
Quote from: CoreySamson on August 23, 2024, 02:54:47 PMAlso, Texas A&M being as big as it is in a city as small as college station is is somewhat noteworthy.
On that topic, Baylor being located in Waco is of note. Texas is interesting in that two of its major universities are religiously associated (Baylor and
Texas
Christian
University). Usually a state only has one (ex. BYU in Utah, Liberty in Virginia, Loyola in Chicago), though DC has like 3 (Georgetown, Catholic University of America, Trinity College).
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 03:57:29 PMQuote from: CoreySamson on August 23, 2024, 02:54:47 PMAlso, Texas A&M being as big as it is in a city as small as college station is is somewhat noteworthy.
On that topic, Baylor being located in Waco is of note. Texas is interesting in that two of its major universities are religiously associated (Baylor and Texas Christian University). Usually a state only has one (ex. BYU in Utah, Liberty in Virginia, Loyola in Chicago), though DC has like 3 (Georgetown, Catholic University of America, Trinity College).
Loyola is in Chicago, but so is DePaul...the largest Catholic university in the country. And if you are going to go down to the level of Trinity College, Illinois has a few more as well.
Quote from: Road Hog on August 23, 2024, 12:16:11 AMThe University of Arkansas was located in Fayetteville in 1871 in order to avoid malaria, as I have been told.
More on the skeeter problem from the university itself:
https://arthropod.uark.edu/arkansas-arthropods-in-history-and-folklore/
I don't think that Fayetteville qualifies in 2024 as the "middle of nowhere" anymore.
The NWA metro is now likely #97 or #96 in the top 100 metros as of 2024, although Wikipedia has the 2023 estimate putting it at #98, but with high percentage growth still.
Fayetteville by itself according to estimated 2023 population of over 101K. It was certainly backwoods back at University of Arkansas' founding, but even the student population is around 32K students this fall, nuts to think about since it was 14K back in the stone age of 1993-1997 when I was there and we had a pretty good basketball team and a truly crappy football team.
Served by I-49 and whatever number they wind up upgrading US-412 to, it's pretty connected to I-40, I-70, I-44, and Tulsa and K.C. And much better to Little Rock as well than the olden days.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 03:42:58 PM.... Oddly enough for its size, Northern Virginia only has one major university (George Mason), and GMU has no affiliation with the "state schools" of VT and UVA.
Depends on whether you consider Marymount "major." I wouldn't list it in the same category with GMU (Marymount's enrollment is around 4200 and GMU's is just under ten times that). But I note it
does have an LGS on I-395 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/wvj8Evz24hdPEc6x6).
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 03:42:58 PMQuote from: Dirt Roads on August 23, 2024, 12:51:38 PMQuote from: WillWeaverRVA on August 23, 2024, 10:01:17 AMLongwood University is a moderately large school (about 5,000 students) well removed from any nearby metropolitan areas in Virginia - Farmville is roughly halfway between Richmond and Lynchburg.
Although it's not a university, the Appalachian College of Pharmacy is located in Oakwood, Virginia, which is basically in the middle of nowhere (about 30 minutes from Richlands). It only offers Doctor of Pharmacy degrees but has a relatively large enrollment (about 150 students). The related Appalachian School of Law is in Grundy, which is an incorporated town but only has a population of about 850 people.
You missed the obvious one in the Old Dominion: Virginia Tech. Back when I went there, Blacksburg was still a little town that would have vanished if the university disappeared. Today, the town is a thriving hub of technology. I suspect that the BEV (Blacksburg Electronic Village) would still keep going if somebody moved Lane Stadium down the hill into Roanoke.
Yeah, Virginia Tech was on my mind but I somehow missed it. What makes Virginia Tech strange is that it's somehow a military school even though it's a land grant school (so it's traditionally associated with agriculture and engineering).
I was also going to mention Virginia (University of Virginia), but Charlottesville has been significant since colonial times given that Thomas Jefferson lived there for forever. Oddly enough for its size, Northern Virginia only has one major university (George Mason), and GMU has no affiliation with the "state schools" of VT and UVA.
GMU is a public university, and used to be part of the University of Virginia.
Grand Valley State in Michigan is near Grand Rapids but the campus itself is way out in nowhere (or, was, prior to recent development).
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on August 22, 2024, 11:57:41 PMI've always felt U of Minnesota lost something sitting right next to downtown Minneapolis. None of the major U of MN campus locations are great classic college towns.
The kids who want a college town can go to Madison with reciprocity. Or La Crosse if they didn't get into Madison.
I was thinking WVU - unless Morgantown is too close to Pittsburgh to count. (It's a 75-mile drive, albeit over mountainous terrain.)
This thread has just proven to me that people have never been to the middle of nowhere.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 03:42:58 PMYeah, Virginia Tech was on my mind but I somehow missed it. What makes Virginia Tech strange is that it's somehow a military school
I think you're confusing Virginia Tech in Blacksburg with Virginia Military Institute in Lexington.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 23, 2024, 08:45:43 PMThis thread has just proven to me that people have never been to the middle of nowhere.
For real, I wouldn't call my alma mater (MSU Mankato) a university in the middle of nowhere even though Mankato isn't all that big. It has enough amenities to be a pretty significant shopping destination and transportation hub for much of Minnesota and Iowa. There is also a business district near the university that provides some walkable stores for students. That's a far cry from my example of Saint John's University, where students have to travel more than 5 miles for anything other than the campus stores.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 23, 2024, 08:45:43 PMThis thread has just proven to me that people have never been to the middle of nowhere.
You are the odd one out there, then.
Quote from: oscar on August 23, 2024, 09:15:21 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 03:42:58 PMYeah, Virginia Tech was on my mind but I somehow missed it. What makes Virginia Tech strange is that it's somehow a military school
I think you're confusing Virginia Tech in Blacksburg with Virginia Military Institute in Lexington.
He's not, actually. VPI is classified as a "senior military college" (along with Norwich in Vermont, Texas A&M, the Citadel, North Georgia, and VMI) because it offers a particular sort of ROTC program under 10 USC 2111a. It's a much stricter ROTC program than the one you see at most universities.
VPI, incidentally, also fits the history referred to elsewhere in this thread. It's a public land-grant university that started as an agricultural college and was originally named Virginia A&M. They later added "and Polytechnic Institute" to the name (Virginia Agricultural and Mechanical College and Polytechnic Institute). People then omitted the "A&M" part and it was formally dropped from the name in the 1940s, creating the familiar "VPI." Then much more recently the Commonwealth decided to give it university status and added "and State University" to the end of the name (why "State" instead of "Commonwealth," who knows). But the people in Blacksburg decided they didn't like it when people pronounced the abbreviated name, "VPISU," as two words ("Vippy Sue") and decided people could call it "Virginia Tech."
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 23, 2024, 08:45:43 PMThis thread has just proven to me that people have never been to the middle of nowhere.
I guess to be fair, in 2024 any "major" university is going to have drawn quite a bit of associated development with hotels, restaurants, and other services that can profit off the university traffic. You're not really going to find an example of a major college existing in a vacuum where the only services within 50 miles are the on-campus dining and stores.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 03:42:58 PMYeah, Virginia Tech was on my mind but I somehow missed it. What makes Virginia Tech strange is that it's somehow a military school
Quote from: oscar on August 23, 2024, 09:15:21 PMI think you're confusing Virginia Tech in Blacksburg with Virginia Military Institute in Lexington.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 24, 2024, 09:00:16 AMHe's not, actually. VPI is classified as a "senior military college" (along with Norwich in Vermont, Texas A&M, the Citadel, North Georgia, and VMI) because it offers a particular sort of ROTC program under 10 USC 2111a. It's a much stricter ROTC program than the one you see at most universities.
VPI, incidentally, also fits the history referred to elsewhere in this thread. It's a public land-grant university that started as an agricultural college and was originally named Virginia A&M. They later added "and Polytechnic Institute" to the name (Virginia Agricultural and Mechanical College and Polytechnic Institute). People then omitted the "A&M" part and it was formally dropped from the name in the 1940s, creating the familiar "VPI." Then much more recently the Commonwealth decided to give it university status and added "and State University" to the end of the name (why "State" instead of "Commonwealth," who knows). But the people in Blacksburg decided they didn't like it when people pronounced the abbreviated name, "VPISU," as two words ("Vippy Sue") and decided people could call it "Virginia Tech."
One of the saddest days of my life was after a year of waiting to see if I could ever get into VPI, on the day that I show up to Blacksburg university president Dr. Lavery tells all of us freshmen that we have to call it Virginia Tech from then on. I didn't mind so much after finding a "Va-Jen-Ya-Tek" T-shirt, packaged nicely in a "Hokie Poke".
Quote from: Rothman on August 22, 2024, 11:44:14 PMUConn feels like it's in the middle of nowhere.
Hardly. The campus is bordered by CT 195, US 44, CT 31 and CT 275. Can basically get anywhere in the state from there.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on August 25, 2024, 11:40:01 AMQuote from: Rothman on August 22, 2024, 11:44:14 PMUConn feels like it's in the middle of nowhere.
Hardly. The campus is bordered by CT 195, US 44, CT 31 and CT 275. Can basically get anywhere in the state from there.
You can get anywhere in a state from anywhere on a road in a typical state.
Visit Storrs sometime and get back to me.
I wonder if the University of Alaska in Fairbanks would qualify. The Greater Fairbanks is a relatively large-sized city for the area, but beyond that there REALLY is a whole lot of nothing for a long distance in any direction.
Quote from: tdindy88 on August 25, 2024, 12:51:25 PMI wonder if the University of Alaska in Fairbanks would qualify. The Greater Fairbanks is a relatively large-sized city for the area, but beyond that there REALLY is a whole lot of nothing for a long distance in any direction.
Fairbanks has the second largest city population in the entire state, ahead of state capital Juneau and behind only Anchorage.
But with less than 7000 students (less than UA-Anchorage), does UAF qualify as a "large university"?
Troy University is the Alabama example that fits this thread.
I have not been out there is nearly 20 years, but would also consider Jacksonville State as well.
Quote from: Rothman on August 23, 2024, 10:47:25 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on August 23, 2024, 08:45:43 PMThis thread has just proven to me that people have never been to the middle of nowhere.
You are the odd one out there, then.
If a 300,000 person, capital city of a state is the middle of nowhere, then I need to come up with new adjectives to describe places like Winnemucca, Minot, and Gillette.
Not saying those have large universities (or universities at all for that matter), but those towns are actually in the middle of nowhere.
For the purposes of this thread, of the top 120 enrolled universities listed here: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d21/tables/dt21_312.10.asp, I'd entertain arguments for "middle of nowhere" for the following:
Texas A&M
University of Illinois
BYU - Idaho
University of Indiana
Oregon State
Washington State
University of Iowa
East Carolina
Utah State
I'm not counting the places like Southern New Hampshire that are largely online.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 02:37:13 PMQuote from: Rothman on August 23, 2024, 10:47:25 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on August 23, 2024, 08:45:43 PMThis thread has just proven to me that people have never been to the middle of nowhere.
You are the odd one out there, then.
If a 300,000 person, capital city of a state is the middle of nowhere, then I need to come up with new adjectives to describe places like Winnemucca, Minot, and Gillette.
Not saying those have large universities (or universities at all for that matter), but those towns are actually in the middle of nowhere.
For the purposes of this thread, of the top 120 enrolled universities listed here: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d21/tables/dt21_312.10.asp, I'd entertain arguments for "middle of nowhere" for the following:
Texas A&M
University of Illinois
BYU - Idaho
University of Indiana
Oregon State
Washington State
University of Iowa
East Carolina
Utah State
I'm not counting the places like Southern New Hampshire that are largely online.
The only one on this list that I would call "in the middle of nowhere" is Washington State. Utah State and Oregon State make a good case as well.
But Indiana, Illinois and Iowa? Not a chance.
And I wouldn't call BYU-Idaho a major university.
This isn't meant to be an exhaustive list, some may arguably not be "in the middle of nowhere despite the low populations, but here are several universities over 10k students with the population of their cities:
Troy - Troy, AL - 17,727
Idaho - Moscow, ID - 25,435
Maine - Orono, ME - 11,183
New Hampshire - Durham, NE - 14,638
South Dakota State - Brookings, SD - 23,377
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:46:34 PMThe only one on this list that I would call "in the middle of nowhere" is Washington State. Utah State and Oregon State make a good case as well.
But Indiana, Illinois and Iowa? Not a chance.
And I wouldn't call BYU-Idaho a major university.
Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities without a huge population outside of the school itself and don't have any other large cities nearby. There's a lot of driving through the real middle of nowhere to get there.
BYU-Idaho was just on the list and I've been to Rexburg and the campus. Rexburg isn't close to anything else population-wise and isn't a large city in and of itself.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:46:34 PMAnd I wouldn't call BYU-Idaho a major university.
I don't typically call BYU-Idaho a
major university either.
However, they have an on-campus enrollment of about 17,000 people, which does qualify it as a
large university. Rexburg itself has a population of about 39,000.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 02:48:55 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:46:34 PMThe only one on this list that I would call "in the middle of nowhere" is Washington State. Utah State and Oregon State make a good case as well.
But Indiana, Illinois and Iowa? Not a chance.
And I wouldn't call BYU-Idaho a major university.
Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities without a huge population outside of the school itself and don't have any other large cities nearby. There's a lot of driving through the real middle of nowhere to get there.
Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities above 70,000. Iowa City is just a stone's throw from Cedar Rapids - many of its employees actually live there. Champaign Urbana is a metro area of over 250,000. Bloomington is less than an hour away from the Indianapolis metro.
None of those are remotely similar to Pullman or even Corvallis.
And I have been to all five of those places.
If you were looking for a remote major university in the midwest, look at Southern Illinois in Carbondale. 18,000 students in a town of 25,000. You could even include Western Illinois in Macomb.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 02:56:26 PMQuote from: WillWeaverRVA on August 26, 2024, 02:54:01 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:46:34 PMAnd I wouldn't call BYU-Idaho a major university.
I don't typically call BYU-Idaho a major university either. I call it a cult with even more crazy restrictions than BYU's main campus in Provo.
However, they have an on-campus enrollment of about 17,000 people, which does qualify it as a large university. Rexburg itself has a population of about 39,000.
Thanks for agreeing with me, but we can leave out the religious references.
removed
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:57:43 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 02:48:55 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:46:34 PMThe only one on this list that I would call "in the middle of nowhere" is Washington State. Utah State and Oregon State make a good case as well.
But Indiana, Illinois and Iowa? Not a chance.
And I wouldn't call BYU-Idaho a major university.
Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities without a huge population outside of the school itself and don't have any other large cities nearby. There's a lot of driving through the real middle of nowhere to get there.
Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities above 70,000. Iowa City is just a stone's throw from Cedar Rapids - many of its employees actually live there. Champaign Urbana is a metro area of over 250,000. Bloomington is less than an hour away from the Indianapolis metro.
None of those are remotely similar to Pullman or even Corvallis.
And I have been to all five of those places.
Well if you're ONLY including things like Pullman and Corvallis, then this thread won't exist for anything east of the Mississippi. As I put in my post, the universities that I listed are the only ones that seemed even moderately close to the definition.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 03:00:39 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:57:43 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 02:48:55 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:46:34 PMThe only one on this list that I would call "in the middle of nowhere" is Washington State. Utah State and Oregon State make a good case as well.
But Indiana, Illinois and Iowa? Not a chance.
And I wouldn't call BYU-Idaho a major university.
Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities without a huge population outside of the school itself and don't have any other large cities nearby. There's a lot of driving through the real middle of nowhere to get there.
Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities above 70,000. Iowa City is just a stone's throw from Cedar Rapids - many of its employees actually live there. Champaign Urbana is a metro area of over 250,000. Bloomington is less than an hour away from the Indianapolis metro.
None of those are remotely similar to Pullman or even Corvallis.
And I have been to all five of those places.
Well if you're ONLY including things like Pullman and Corvallis, then this thread won't exist for anything east of the Mississippi. As I put in my post, the universities that I listed are the only ones that seemed even moderately close to the definition.
I just edited my post to mention Southern Illinois in Carbondale, Western Illinois in Macomb.
Also Penn State and Auburn are way more remote than the three-I schools you mentioned.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 03:03:19 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 03:00:39 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:57:43 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 02:48:55 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:46:34 PMThe only one on this list that I would call "in the middle of nowhere" is Washington State. Utah State and Oregon State make a good case as well.
But Indiana, Illinois and Iowa? Not a chance.
And I wouldn't call BYU-Idaho a major university.
Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities without a huge population outside of the school itself and don't have any other large cities nearby. There's a lot of driving through the real middle of nowhere to get there.
Indiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities above 70,000. Iowa City is just a stone's throw from Cedar Rapids - many of its employees actually live there. Champaign Urbana is a metro area of over 250,000. Bloomington is less than an hour away from the Indianapolis metro.
None of those are remotely similar to Pullman or even Corvallis.
And I have been to all five of those places.
Well if you're ONLY including things like Pullman and Corvallis, then this thread won't exist for anything east of the Mississippi. As I put in my post, the universities that I listed are the only ones that seemed even moderately close to the definition.
I just edited my post to mention Southern Illinois in Carbondale, Western Illinois in Macomb.
Also Penn State and Auburn are way more remote than the three-I schools you mentioned.
I can get on board with Penn State.
The Auburn MSA has more people than the Iowa City MSA.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 03:03:19 PMAlso Penn State and Auburn are way more remote than the three-I schools you mentioned.
Yeah, Penn State would fit the bill in my opinion. Sure, State College constitutes its own metropolitan area, but it sure does feel like it's in the middle of nowhere if you go just a few miles out in any direction, and it's 50 to 60 miles away from the nearest municipalities of comparable size (about 55 miles from Williamsport with 27,000 people; about 65 miles from Harrisburg with 50,000 people).
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 01:26:10 AMSpeaking of California, the California State University system -- which is another public system that does not consist of land grant universities -- are derived from normal schools (aka teacher schools).
Drifting off-topic, but of note is UCLA, which was originally the southern branch of the State Normal School at San Jose (later San Jose State). The southern branch was transferred to the University of California in 1919 to become the southern branch of UC Berkeley, and wasn't formally considered of equal status to Berkeley until 1951.
QuoteChico is the only university that fits this thread; the rest are located in LA/Bay Area/San Diego, and some have grown to be bigger than others (SDSU, Fullerton).
If you're going to include Chico State (14K students, 111K in the urban area), then you should consider Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (22K students, 57K in the urban area) (although the SLO metro is bigger than the Chico metro, but both include more distant urban areas).
Quote from: DTComposer on August 26, 2024, 03:24:53 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 01:26:10 AMSpeaking of California, the California State University system -- which is another public system that does not consist of land grant universities -- are derived from normal schools (aka teacher schools).
Drifting off-topic, but of note is UCLA, which was originally the southern branch of the State Normal School at San Jose (later San Jose State). The southern branch was transferred to the University of California in 1919 to become the southern branch of UC Berkeley, and wasn't formally considered of equal status to Berkeley until 1951.
QuoteChico is the only university that fits this thread; the rest are located in LA/Bay Area/San Diego, and some have grown to be bigger than others (SDSU, Fullerton).
If you're going to include Chico State (14K students, 111K in the urban area), then you should consider Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (22K students, 57K in the urban area) (although the SLO metro is bigger than the Chico metro, but both include more distant urban areas).
What about Humboldt State?
Heh. The idea of BYU-Idaho being a major university is laughable.
Had a gen ed night English class that was taught by a former kindergarten teacher. One night, she brought in a boom box. Halfway through the class, she said something like, "I brought this radio in because there a song that I think you need to hear that's really touched me."
She then proceeded to play "I Write the Songs" by Barry Manilow.
The University of South Dakota in Vermillion has to be the state flagship university in the smallest city. Not much going on in Vermillion, regardless of what my former coworker thinks.
Another one whose campus I have seen is Ball State in Indiana.
Hm. I have an acquaintance that owns a bookstore in Vermillion...
Quote from: Rothman on August 26, 2024, 07:43:22 PMHeh. The idea of BYU-Idaho being a major university is laughable.
Had a gen ed night English class that was taught by a former kindergarten teacher. One night, she brought in a boom box. Halfway through the class, she said something like, "I brought this radio in because there a song that I think you need to hear that's really touched me."
She then proceeded to play "I Write the Songs" by Barry Manilow.
I hope it was still Ricks College then. Even still . . .
Quote from: elsmere241 on August 27, 2024, 08:20:38 AMQuote from: Rothman on August 26, 2024, 07:43:22 PMHeh. The idea of BYU-Idaho being a major university is laughable.
Had a gen ed night English class that was taught by a former kindergarten teacher. One night, she brought in a boom box. Halfway through the class, she said something like, "I brought this radio in because there a song that I think you need to hear that's really touched me."
She then proceeded to play "I Write the Songs" by Barry Manilow.
I hope it was still Ricks College then. Even still . . .
Even still, when a college "upgrades" to a university satellite campus by then
getting rid of their football team, how can the rebranded 4-year school be considered a "major university"?
Quote from: Rothman on August 27, 2024, 08:27:34 AMEven still, when a college "upgrades" to a university satellite campus by then getting rid of their football team, how can the rebranded 4-year school be considered a "major university"?
Tell me about it. I saw their catalog recently and they don't offer a lot. I know why they upgraded it, it seemed to be the only reasonable way to keep it open. I do think its purpose now is to siphoning off the MRS degree seekers from Provo.
(I shouldn't say much more - my wife got her AAS from there when it was Ricks.)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 03:00:39 PMWell if you're ONLY including things like Pullman and Corvallis, then this thread won't exist for anything east of the Mississippi. As I put in my post, the universities that I listed are the only ones that seemed even moderately close to the definition.
I don't know about that; Salisbury University and Maryland-Eastern Shore come to mind. (Then again, nearby Cambridge does seem like the middle of nowhere, as would any place on the Virginia Eastern Shore.)
Quote from: elsmere241 on August 27, 2024, 08:35:54 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 03:00:39 PMWell if you're ONLY including things like Pullman and Corvallis, then this thread won't exist for anything east of the Mississippi. As I put in my post, the universities that I listed are the only ones that seemed even moderately close to the definition.
I don't know about that; Salisbury University and Maryland-Eastern Shore come to mind. (Then again, nearby Cambridge does seem like the middle of nowhere, as would any place on the Virginia Eastern Shore.)
I was basing my comment on the list of the Top 120 universities in enrollment that I posted. UMES isn't on that list.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 27, 2024, 08:58:04 AMQuote from: elsmere241 on August 27, 2024, 08:35:54 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2024, 03:00:39 PMWell if you're ONLY including things like Pullman and Corvallis, then this thread won't exist for anything east of the Mississippi. As I put in my post, the universities that I listed are the only ones that seemed even moderately close to the definition.
I don't know about that; Salisbury University and Maryland-Eastern Shore come to mind. (Then again, nearby Cambridge does seem like the middle of nowhere, as would any place on the Virginia Eastern Shore.)
I was basing my comment on the list of the Top 120 universities in enrollment that I posted. UMES isn't on that list.
Now that I think about it, you're right. UMES has exactly two mailing addresses.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:57:43 PMIndiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities above 70,000. Iowa City is just a stone's throw from Cedar Rapids - many of its employees actually live there. Champaign Urbana is a metro area of over 250,000. Bloomington is less than an hour away from the Indianapolis metro.
Illinois (UIUC, specifically) has an enrollment of about 48k, employs about 22k people. Factor in businesses that only exist in C-U because of the presence of UIUC -- both services that support University life, and companies that exist as a result of commercialization of academic projects -- and that pretty much explains the current existence of Champaign-Urbana.
Without UIUC, you'd probably be looking at another Danville or Decatur....maybe even another Effingham.
When I went to UIUC, most of my classmates from Chicagoland perceived it as being out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by miles of corn and soybean fields. However, as someone with family ties to the area (I'm fourth generation Illini, own farm property about a half-hour away from campus, and have toyed around with the idea of moving back)....I didn't perceive it as such.
I guess that just highlights the (arguable) problem of the premise of this thread -- "large university" and "middle of nowhere" are both rather subjective terms.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on August 27, 2024, 10:20:35 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:57:43 PMIndiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities above 70,000. Iowa City is just a stone's throw from Cedar Rapids - many of its employees actually live there. Champaign Urbana is a metro area of over 250,000. Bloomington is less than an hour away from the Indianapolis metro.
Illinois (UIUC, specifically) has an enrollment of about 48k, employs about 22k people. Factor in businesses that only exist in C-U because of the presence of UIUC -- both services that support University life, and companies that exist as a result of commercialization of academic projects -- and that pretty much explains the current existence of Champaign-Urbana.
Without UIUC, you'd probably be looking at another Danville or Decatur....maybe even another Effingham.
When I went to UIUC, most of my classmates from Chicagoland perceived it as being out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by miles of corn and soybean fields. However, as someone with family ties to the area (I'm fourth generation Illini, own farm property about a half-hour away from campus, and have toyed around with the idea of moving back)....I didn't perceive it as such.
I guess that just highlights the (arguable) problem of the premise of this thread -- "large university" and "middle of nowhere" are both rather subjective terms.
Agreed on the subjectivity point, but we're all road nerds. All we have is our subjectivity. :)
I've spent a good amount of time in that neck of the woods too. I had an ex that was from Effingham. My former brother-in-law was from Mattoon. I've visited a friend that went to school at U of I. That said, "relatively", Urbana/Champaign is the middle of nowhere. It's not a huge metro area. It's not near huge metro areas. That's kind of how I define it.
If you take the school away (population-wise), would the metro area be under, say, 125k people? And then it's over 100 miles away from a metro area of 300k plus? Then that's pretty "middle of nowhere" to me. If the school has over 20k-25k students? Then it's large.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on August 27, 2024, 10:20:35 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 02:57:43 PMIndiana, Illinois, and Iowa are all in cities above 70,000. Iowa City is just a stone's throw from Cedar Rapids - many of its employees actually live there. Champaign Urbana is a metro area of over 250,000. Bloomington is less than an hour away from the Indianapolis metro.
Illinois (UIUC, specifically) has an enrollment of about 48k, employs about 22k people. Factor in businesses that only exist in C-U because of the presence of UIUC -- both services that support University life, and companies that exist as a result of commercialization of academic projects -- and that pretty much explains the current existence of Champaign-Urbana.
Without UIUC, you'd probably be looking at another Danville or Decatur....maybe even another Effingham.
When I went to UIUC, most of my classmates from Chicagoland perceived it as being out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by miles of corn and soybean fields. However, as someone with family ties to the area (I'm fourth generation Illini, own farm property about a half-hour away from campus, and have toyed around with the idea of moving back)....I didn't perceive it as such.
I guess that just highlights the (arguable) problem of the premise of this thread -- "large university" and "middle of nowhere" are both rather subjective terms.
People from Chicago think Kane County is the middle of nowhere, so I am not sure that is a great point. :sombrero:
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 26, 2024, 03:51:22 PMQuote from: DTComposer on August 26, 2024, 03:24:53 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 01:26:10 AMSpeaking of California, the California State University system -- which is another public system that does not consist of land grant universities -- are derived from normal schools (aka teacher schools).
Drifting off-topic, but of note is UCLA, which was originally the southern branch of the State Normal School at San Jose (later San Jose State). The southern branch was transferred to the University of California in 1919 to become the southern branch of UC Berkeley, and wasn't formally considered of equal status to Berkeley until 1951.
QuoteChico is the only university that fits this thread; the rest are located in LA/Bay Area/San Diego, and some have grown to be bigger than others (SDSU, Fullerton).
If you're going to include Chico State (14K students, 111K in the urban area), then you should consider Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (22K students, 57K in the urban area) (although the SLO metro is bigger than the Chico metro, but both include more distant urban areas).
What about Humboldt State?
Definitely qualifies on the middle-of-nowhere end, but it's only about 6K students, so I didn't think it met the OP's criteria.
Quote from: elsmere241 on August 27, 2024, 08:31:50 AMQuote from: Rothman on August 27, 2024, 08:27:34 AMEven still, when a college "upgrades" to a university satellite campus by then getting rid of their football team, how can the rebranded 4-year school be considered a "major university"?
Tell me about it. I saw their catalog recently and they don't offer a lot. I know why they upgraded it, it seemed to be the only reasonable way to keep it open. I do think its purpose now is to siphoning off the MRS degree seekers from Provo.
(I shouldn't say much more - my wife got her AAS from there when it was Ricks.)
I think they had their accreditation threatened back in the late 1990s and had a scramble to fix their curriculum and resources. Don't know if they've had issues since.
But..you want to talk about a non-Church owned Mormon college that's got issues, look no further than Southern Virginia in Buena Vista...
Quote from: Rothman on August 27, 2024, 02:16:58 PMQuote from: elsmere241 on August 27, 2024, 08:31:50 AMQuote from: Rothman on August 27, 2024, 08:27:34 AMEven still, when a college "upgrades" to a university satellite campus by then getting rid of their football team, how can the rebranded 4-year school be considered a "major university"?
Tell me about it. I saw their catalog recently and they don't offer a lot. I know why they upgraded it, it seemed to be the only reasonable way to keep it open. I do think its purpose now is to siphoning off the MRS degree seekers from Provo.
(I shouldn't say much more - my wife got her AAS from there when it was Ricks.)
I think they had their accreditation threatened back in the late 1990s and had a scramble to fix their curriculum and resources. Don't know if they've had issues since.
But..you want to talk about a non-Church owned Mormon college that's got issues, look no further than Southern Virginia in Buena Vista...
I just looked into it a little bit - wow.
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 01:26:10 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on August 23, 2024, 12:52:29 AMMany of the universities mentioned in this thread (including OSU, KSU, and WSU) are land-grant universities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university) that were established by the federal government granting the states a large tract of land, of which a small portion was retained for the campus and the rest sold off to fund the construction and operation of the university. Large tracts of federal land are not found in developed areas. Instead they're in...the middle of nowhere.
Good read!
It also looks like the Morrill Act retroactively designated some colleges as land grants. Several of the colleges named in the 1862 act were already open and operating (Wisconsin, Auburn, Rutgers, Tennessee, Vermont) though the towns they were located in were pretty backwater at the time. Technically, PSU and Michigan State were built before the Morrill Act, but I know that in PSU's case they hadn't actually accepted students and graduated a class.
This also means the University of California system (Berkeley, UCLA, UC Davis, UC San Diego) are all land grants even though some are located next to or inside cities.
Speaking of California, the California State University system -- which is another public system that does not consist of land grant universities -- are derived from normal schools (aka teacher schools). Chico is the only university that fits this thread; the rest are located in LA/Bay Area/San Diego, and some have grown to be bigger than others (SDSU, Fullerton).
UC Davis is one of them that started out as being as the middle of Nowhere but ended up responding to the suburban sprawl of both the Bay Area and Sacramento.
Quote from: bing101 on August 27, 2024, 02:33:39 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 01:26:10 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on August 23, 2024, 12:52:29 AMMany of the universities mentioned in this thread (including OSU, KSU, and WSU) are land-grant universities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university) that were established by the federal government granting the states a large tract of land, of which a small portion was retained for the campus and the rest sold off to fund the construction and operation of the university. Large tracts of federal land are not found in developed areas. Instead they're in...the middle of nowhere.
Good read!
It also looks like the Morrill Act retroactively designated some colleges as land grants. Several of the colleges named in the 1862 act were already open and operating (Wisconsin, Auburn, Rutgers, Tennessee, Vermont) though the towns they were located in were pretty backwater at the time. Technically, PSU and Michigan State were built before the Morrill Act, but I know that in PSU's case they hadn't actually accepted students and graduated a class.
This also means the University of California system (Berkeley, UCLA, UC Davis, UC San Diego) are all land grants even though some are located next to or inside cities.
Speaking of California, the California State University system -- which is another public system that does not consist of land grant universities -- are derived from normal schools (aka teacher schools). Chico is the only university that fits this thread; the rest are located in LA/Bay Area/San Diego, and some have grown to be bigger than others (SDSU, Fullerton).
UC Davis is one of them that started out as being as the middle of Nowhere but ended up responding to the suburban sprawl of both the Bay Area and Sacramento.
To be fair, UC Davis started out as the agricultural college for Berkeley and was only 15 miles out of Sacramento - by the time it was granted full university status (1959), the Sacramento metro was well over 600,000 people.
Quote from: DTComposer on August 27, 2024, 06:07:22 PMQuote from: bing101 on August 27, 2024, 02:33:39 PMQuote from: noelbotevera on August 23, 2024, 01:26:10 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on August 23, 2024, 12:52:29 AMMany of the universities mentioned in this thread (including OSU, KSU, and WSU) are land-grant universities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university) that were established by the federal government granting the states a large tract of land, of which a small portion was retained for the campus and the rest sold off to fund the construction and operation of the university. Large tracts of federal land are not found in developed areas. Instead they're in...the middle of nowhere.
Good read!
It also looks like the Morrill Act retroactively designated some colleges as land grants. Several of the colleges named in the 1862 act were already open and operating (Wisconsin, Auburn, Rutgers, Tennessee, Vermont) though the towns they were located in were pretty backwater at the time. Technically, PSU and Michigan State were built before the Morrill Act, but I know that in PSU's case they hadn't actually accepted students and graduated a class.
This also means the University of California system (Berkeley, UCLA, UC Davis, UC San Diego) are all land grants even though some are located next to or inside cities.
Speaking of California, the California State University system -- which is another public system that does not consist of land grant universities -- are derived from normal schools (aka teacher schools). Chico is the only university that fits this thread; the rest are located in LA/Bay Area/San Diego, and some have grown to be bigger than others (SDSU, Fullerton).
UC Davis is one of them that started out as being as the middle of Nowhere but ended up responding to the suburban sprawl of both the Bay Area and Sacramento.
To be fair, UC Davis started out as the agricultural college for Berkeley and was only 15 miles out of Sacramento - by the time it was granted full university status (1959), the Sacramento metro was well over 600,000 people.
True too places along the I-80 corridor from Fairfield to Davis at one point was considered the middle of Nowhere but in the 2020's they have to respond to the suburban sprawl of both Sacramento and Bay Area at the same time.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on August 26, 2024, 03:19:41 PMYeah, Penn State would fit the bill in my opinion. Sure, State College constitutes its own metropolitan area, but it sure does feel like it's in the middle of nowhere if you go just a few miles out in any direction, and it's 50 to 60 miles away from the nearest municipalities of comparable size (about 55 miles from Williamsport with 27,000 people; about 65 miles from Harrisburg with 50,000 people).
Altoona is about 40mi away with a population of a little over 43,000
Quote from: Mr_Northside on August 28, 2024, 04:01:49 PMQuote from: WillWeaverRVA on August 26, 2024, 03:19:41 PMYeah, Penn State would fit the bill in my opinion. Sure, State College constitutes its own metropolitan area, but it sure does feel like it's in the middle of nowhere if you go just a few miles out in any direction, and it's 50 to 60 miles away from the nearest municipalities of comparable size (about 55 miles from Williamsport with 27,000 people; about 65 miles from Harrisburg with 50,000 people).
Altoona is about 40mi away with a population of a little over 43,000
I don't want to admit that I forgot about that so I'll just say Bud Shuster caused me to block the existence of Altoona from my mind instead.
The first two schools that came to mind when I saw this thread -- mentioned early on -- were Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Kansas State. But I would also put KU into that mix. Lawrence isn't exactly in the KC metro area. My brother once had a work function on the KU campus and talked about how long the cab ride was from the KC airport to Lawrence.
What I don't really get are the major state schools that are not somewhat centrally located geographically. I'd put KSU, KU, Arkansas, and West Virginia atop that list. A similar case could be made for Tennessee and Georgia. There's a whole lot of Tennessee to the west of Knoxville and to the southwest of Athens.
My favorite fun fact about Tennessee's main campus is not just that it's located near neither of the state's two largest cities, but also in a different time zone from them entirely. TN might be the only state that can claim that.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 28, 2024, 06:15:05 PMThe first two schools that came to mind when I saw this thread -- mentioned early on -- were Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Kansas State. But I would also put KU into that mix. Lawrence isn't exactly in the KC metro area. My brother once had a work function on the KU campus and talked about how long the cab ride was from the KC airport to Lawrence.
What I don't really get are the major state schools that are not somewhat centrally located geographically. I'd put KSU, KU, Arkansas, and West Virginia atop that list. A similar case could be made for Tennessee and Georgia. There's a whole lot of Tennessee to the west of Knoxville and to the southwest of Athens.
Lawrence becomes closer to being in the KC metro area every year. The entire K-10 corridor continues to build up more and more. From Lawrence, you can be in the super populated part of Johnson County in 20-25 minutes.
KU and K-State aren't central from an area perspective, but they're central from a population perspective. West of Salina there are very few people.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 28, 2024, 06:15:05 PMThe first two schools that came to mind when I saw this thread -- mentioned early on -- were Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Kansas State. But I would also put KU into that mix. Lawrence isn't exactly in the KC metro area. My brother once had a work function on the KU campus and talked about how long the cab ride was from the KC airport to Lawrence.
What I don't really get are the major state schools that are not somewhat centrally located geographically. I'd put KSU, KU, Arkansas, and West Virginia atop that list. A similar case could be made for Tennessee and Georgia. There's a whole lot of Tennessee to the west of Knoxville and to the southwest of Athens.
You can add Michigan to that list, though most of the state's population is focused on the Detroit area, so I suppose it's centrally located populationwise but not geographically.
Florida would work there too, Gainesville is well north of the most populous parts of the state.
Ohio University might be the answer. About 18K enrollment and the town is about 25K population. Take the school out and I bet Athens doesn't have 5,000 people.
75 miles from Columbus, 88 from Charleston, WV, 38 from Parkersburg, WV. But it feels a world away from all those.
Quote from: Sctvhound on September 03, 2024, 10:46:51 PMOhio University might be the answer. About 18K enrollment and the town is about 25K population. Take the school out and I bet Athens doesn't have 5,000 people.
75 miles from Columbus, 88 from Charleston, WV, 38 from Parkersburg, WV. But it feels a world away from all those.
Ohio U. has that many students? I would never have guessed that.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 04, 2024, 06:59:53 PMQuote from: Sctvhound on September 03, 2024, 10:46:51 PMOhio University might be the answer. About 18K enrollment and the town is about 25K population. Take the school out and I bet Athens doesn't have 5,000 people.
75 miles from Columbus, 88 from Charleston, WV, 38 from Parkersburg, WV. But it feels a world away from all those.
Ohio U. has that many students? I would never have guessed that.
Ohio is a plenty big enough state to have several state schools > 10k.
What does "Middle of Nowhere" mean in today's context some of the colleges I am aware of was located what was then "nowhere" at the time it was built but is now responding to suburban sprawl.
https://localwiki.org/davis/UC_Merced
https://www.ucmerced.edu/why-ucmerced
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California,_Merced
UC Merced is one of these places where it started out at nowhere in the past two decades but is now responding to the educational needs of San Joaquin Valley students. Also how that will make the surrounding areas like Merced, Fresno and Modesto viable to startups is yet to be seen here.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 28, 2024, 06:15:05 PMThe first two schools that came to mind when I saw this thread -- mentioned early on -- were Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Kansas State. But I would also put KU into that mix. Lawrence isn't exactly in the KC metro area. My brother once had a work function on the KU campus and talked about how long the cab ride was from the KC airport to Lawrence.
What I don't really get are the major state schools that are not somewhat centrally located geographically. I'd put KSU, KU, Arkansas, and West Virginia atop that list. A similar case could be made for Tennessee and Georgia. There's a whole lot of Tennessee to the west of Knoxville and to the southwest of Athens.
If you have ever visited Little Rock, then you'd know why Arkansans (and Texans) would rather spend their young adulthood in Fayetteville instead of at UALR. It's a world away climatalogically, scenically, and intellectually from the capital that has monopolized most everything else in the state.
Quote from: MikieTimT on September 05, 2024, 05:04:02 PMQuote from: hbelkins on August 28, 2024, 06:15:05 PMThe first two schools that came to mind when I saw this thread -- mentioned early on -- were Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Kansas State. But I would also put KU into that mix. Lawrence isn't exactly in the KC metro area. My brother once had a work function on the KU campus and talked about how long the cab ride was from the KC airport to Lawrence.
What I don't really get are the major state schools that are not somewhat centrally located geographically. I'd put KSU, KU, Arkansas, and West Virginia atop that list. A similar case could be made for Tennessee and Georgia. There's a whole lot of Tennessee to the west of Knoxville and to the southwest of Athens.
If you have ever visited Little Rock, then you'd know why Arkansans (and Texans) would rather spend their young adulthood in Fayetteville instead of at UALR. It's a world away climatalogically, scenically, and intellectually from the capital that has monopolized most everything else in the state.
I'm not disagreeing -- having only been in that area a handful of times, I agree that it's a scenic area -- but the University of Arkansas could have been located in, say, Conway, and it would be much more geographically centered.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 06, 2024, 02:10:03 PMQuote from: MikieTimT on September 05, 2024, 05:04:02 PMQuote from: hbelkins on August 28, 2024, 06:15:05 PMThe first two schools that came to mind when I saw this thread -- mentioned early on -- were Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Kansas State. But I would also put KU into that mix. Lawrence isn't exactly in the KC metro area. My brother once had a work function on the KU campus and talked about how long the cab ride was from the KC airport to Lawrence.
What I don't really get are the major state schools that are not somewhat centrally located geographically. I'd put KSU, KU, Arkansas, and West Virginia atop that list. A similar case could be made for Tennessee and Georgia. There's a whole lot of Tennessee to the west of Knoxville and to the southwest of Athens.
If you have ever visited Little Rock, then you'd know why Arkansans (and Texans) would rather spend their young adulthood in Fayetteville instead of at UALR. It's a world away climatalogically, scenically, and intellectually from the capital that has monopolized most everything else in the state.
I'm not disagreeing -- having only been in that area a handful of times, I agree that it's a scenic area -- but the University of Arkansas could have been located in, say, Conway, and it would be much more geographically centered.
Maybe they could just put the University of Central Arkansas there. :)
Quote from: hbelkins on September 06, 2024, 02:10:03 PMQuote from: MikieTimT on September 05, 2024, 05:04:02 PMQuote from: hbelkins on August 28, 2024, 06:15:05 PMThe first two schools that came to mind when I saw this thread -- mentioned early on -- were Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Kansas State. But I would also put KU into that mix. Lawrence isn't exactly in the KC metro area. My brother once had a work function on the KU campus and talked about how long the cab ride was from the KC airport to Lawrence.
What I don't really get are the major state schools that are not somewhat centrally located geographically. I'd put KSU, KU, Arkansas, and West Virginia atop that list. A similar case could be made for Tennessee and Georgia. There's a whole lot of Tennessee to the west of Knoxville and to the southwest of Athens.
If you have ever visited Little Rock, then you'd know why Arkansans (and Texans) would rather spend their young adulthood in Fayetteville instead of at UALR. It's a world away climatalogically, scenically, and intellectually from the capital that has monopolized most everything else in the state.
I'm not disagreeing -- having only been in that area a handful of times, I agree that it's a scenic area -- but the University of Arkansas could have been located in, say, Conway, and it would be much more geographically centered.
I stated earlier, the U of A was placed in Fayetteville in 1871 to remove it from the malaria treat. The Little Rock branch of the state university system is as central as it gets, but is struggling and they can go D-II as far as I care. Complete non-factor.
Anyone mention Colgate University in the tiny Village of Hamilton, NY?
Although SUNY-Morrisville isn't a major university, Morrisville would probably not exist without it. With Cazenovia College shut down, it makes me wonder how much longer smaller colleges in rural NY will hang on before following suit.
My alma mater is in the middle of nowhere. Ferris State University has its main campus in Big Rapids, Michigan, a city of about 7,700 residents. The university has an enrollment of about 10,400 students, although that figure does include students at the Grand Rapids campus (Kendall College of Art & Design) and some satellite centers in other cities.