The Somerset-Pulaski County Economic Development Authority is pitching an idea to create a US 111 to follow an alternate route to Chattanooga from Exit 62 on I-75 at Mt. Vernon in Rockcastle County to, I presume, the interchange of I-24 and US 27 (hidden I-124).
The route would follow US 25, KY 461, KY 80, KY 914, KY 1247, KY 90, and US 127 to Static, Tenn., where it would then follow TN 111 south to US 27,then follow US 27 to Chattanooga and I-24.
Details here. (https://www.facebook.com/spedaky/posts/pfbid0LDoSi4cbWYdEY5UuXPP2kGaVXR2WSMpHqDfVoo1RuruYockMtqQ4mrnP8nHXH5QKl)
Quote>> Should Highway 461 become part of a scenic corridor project to help tourism and economic development efforts?
Tell us what you think in this survey: https://forms.gle/v14tJzPrU4T2Xs1D6 (PLEASE NOTE: Responses in the comments section WILL NOT BE INCLUDED. Please respond to the survey only.)
As shared by Kentucky journalist Al Cross during a recent Somerset-Pulaski County Chamber of Commerce presentation, if you were going to a Braves game in Atlanta, which way would you go? It takes about five hours any of the three ways on the map you see here. However, one of these options — by Albany, KY, and on Tennessee Highway 111 to U.S. 27 and I-75 to Chattanooga — is a popular way for motorists to enjoy a scenic route that avoids Pine Mountain and Knoxville.
This route is one of the greatest, longest and relatively unspoiled scenic routes in the Eastern United States, but few recognize it because it is not labeled on a map or road signage. A group of advocates from the area is interested in seeing this route become federal highway U.S. 111 from Chattanooga to Exit 62 in Mount Vernon on I-75. That would include Highways 90, 1247, 914, 80 and 461 in Pulaski County, and would necessitate changing the route number of Highway 461 to U.S. 111.
The American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials makes decisions on federal route numbers, and highway officials in Kentucky and Tennessee are considering asking that group to create U.S. 111. Doing so would create a scenic corridor that could increase tourism and economic development for all communities along this path.
To gather important feedback from our community on this endeavor and allow our residents' voices to be heard, SPEDA is conducting a survey to learn how changing this route number would affect people living and working along Highway 461. If this includes you, or if you live or work in Pulaski County and have an opinion on this issue, please take this short survey so we can include your thoughts.
This is the first I've heard of this proposal, including the fact that Kentucky and Tennessee are considering submitting a proposal to AASHTO.
This routing of US 111 would not intersect its parent, US 11, and would have two useless concurrencies on either end (a short concurrency with US 25 on the northern end and a longer concurrency with US 27 on the southern end.) There shouldn't be any issues with road quality, as all of the Kentucky portion has been built as new construction or reconstructed in the past 30 years.
The SPEDA is taking a survey of residents and business owners along KY 461 to see if the the number change from KY 461 to US 111 would have any affect or cause any hardships.
Should be numbered US 125.
I agree with the US 125 designation. I'm a little skeptical of this proposal, although if they truly want the route to be numbered US 111, they should make a slight route adjustment on the southern end. Instead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on September 06, 2024, 02:05:14 PMShould be numbered US 125.
Or US 37 since the actual proposal wasn't very far away.
That person I interacted with on Facebook recently that is begging to bring back US 111 along I-83, PA 147, and PA/NY 14, is going to be angry with this actual proposal.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 06, 2024, 01:58:33 PMThis routing of US 111 would not intersect its parent, US 11, and would have two useless concurrencies on either end (a short concurrency with US 25 on the northern end and a longer concurrency with US 27 on the southern end.)
A US 125 designation would be valid, although the proposed route would come so close to US 11 that I think the number 111 would be just fine. I'm sure one of their thoughts is to avoid issues along the segment of the route that's already designated 111.
That being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.
US 111 will meet its parent US 11 in Chattanooga. US 11 (US 41 and US 64) has an interchange with US 27 near downtown. If US 111 is to follow US 27 down towards I-24, US 111 will meet its parent... even though it is not a full interchange.
Then I remember Chattanooga doesn't really do US route signings or Tennessee itself is bad at that.
Quote from: Strider on September 06, 2024, 05:20:32 PMThen I remember Chattanooga doesn't really do US route signings or Tennessee itself is bad at that.
My personal experience is that it is mainly an issue with US 127 (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2458.msg9674#msg9674), which on maps goes into Downtown Chattanooga (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/maps/city-maps/city-maps-a-d/map-city-Chattanooga_SW.pdf), but is not signed south of US 27.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 06, 2024, 05:49:02 PMQuote from: Strider on September 06, 2024, 05:20:32 PMThen I remember Chattanooga doesn't really do US route signings or Tennessee itself is bad at that.
My personal experience is that it is mainly an issue with US 127 (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2458.msg9674#msg9674), which on maps goes into Downtown Chattanooga (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/maps/city-maps/city-maps-a-d/map-city-Chattanooga_SW.pdf), but is not signed south of US 27.
US 72 and US 76 are also unposted on their independent segments downtown.
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 06, 2024, 06:52:53 PMQuote from: 74/171FAN on September 06, 2024, 05:49:02 PMQuote from: Strider on September 06, 2024, 05:20:32 PMThen I remember Chattanooga doesn't really do US route signings or Tennessee itself is bad at that.
My personal experience is that it is mainly an issue with US 127 (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2458.msg9674#msg9674), which on maps goes into Downtown Chattanooga (https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tdot/maps/city-maps/city-maps-a-d/map-city-Chattanooga_SW.pdf), but is not signed south of US 27.
US 72 and US 76 are also unposted on their independent segments downtown.
Right, what signage there is indicates that both US 72 (even getting an END sign) (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0354899,-85.3124266,3a,75y,42.42h,92.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIOrSoOndyaFmFA0YLCi9vg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D) and US 76 end where US 41 turns from Broad to Main.
Quote from: usends on September 06, 2024, 04:02:55 PMThat being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.
Was thinking that same thing and meant to post it yesterday but got waylaid.
Quote from: Strider on September 06, 2024, 05:20:32 PMUS 111 will meet its parent US 11 in Chattanooga. US 11 (US 41 and US 64) has an interchange with US 27 near downtown. If US 111 is to follow US 27 down towards I-24, US 111 will meet its parent... even though it is not a full interchange.
That interchange is technically part of I-24. Sure there's some ramps to/from US 27, but the interchange is within the I-24 right-of-way. By centerline definition (which most if not all DOTs follow), the US 111 as proposed would not meet US 11.
After losing I-66, will US 111 become the redemption story for southern KY?
This would not be unprecedented, because US 121 in VA and WV certainly will not meet US 21 (but it will meet the freeway replacement, I-77).
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2024, 02:11:07 PMInstead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.
Quote from: usends on September 06, 2024, 04:02:55 PMThat being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.
I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.
TDOT and KYTC should prioritize access control along the portions of the route that current lack it, with the ultimate goal of 4-laning the sections currently still at 2 lanes, and being able to convert signalized intersections to interchanges without having to "bypass the bypass".
For the most part it's not bad, but the section of KY-90 outside Somerset has a lot of development right up against the ROW, and KY-461 near Mt. Vernon also has a bit. The TN-111 "bypass" of Livingston is also a hot mess.
Per the Google, the proposed US-111 as it sits now is about 40 minutes longer point-to-point than I-75 despite only being 3 miles longer. Much of this lost time is in the slower Cookeville to Somerset section, which goes through more towns instead of bypassing them. It's also largely a 2-lane roadway with slower speed limits.
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 07, 2024, 06:34:49 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2024, 02:11:07 PMInstead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.
Quote from: usends on September 06, 2024, 04:02:55 PMThat being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.
I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.
With Google Maps and GPS, route promotion is so 20th Century.
Quote from: Rothman on September 07, 2024, 11:04:05 PMQuote from: JREwing78 on September 07, 2024, 06:34:49 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2024, 02:11:07 PMInstead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.
Quote from: usends on September 06, 2024, 04:02:55 PMThat being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.
I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.
With Google Maps and GPS, route promotion is so 20th Century.
New scenic byways are created all the time, often to great fanfare. Promoting tourist routes does make a difference.
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 07, 2024, 11:40:42 PMQuote from: Rothman on September 07, 2024, 11:04:05 PMQuote from: JREwing78 on September 07, 2024, 06:34:49 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2024, 02:11:07 PMInstead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.
Quote from: usends on September 06, 2024, 04:02:55 PMThat being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.
I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.
With Google Maps and GPS, route promotion is so 20th Century.
New scenic byways are created all the time, often to great fanfare. Promoting tourist routes does make a difference.
I do wonder how many people actually drive the byways. There are so many nowadays that new ones just seem like wistful "If you build it, they will come."
I suppose US 111 would attract a couple of roadgeeks.
Quote from: Rothman on September 08, 2024, 12:52:05 AMQuote from: Molandfreak on September 07, 2024, 11:40:42 PMQuote from: Rothman on September 07, 2024, 11:04:05 PMQuote from: JREwing78 on September 07, 2024, 06:34:49 PMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2024, 02:11:07 PMInstead of sending it down US 27 to Interstate 24, they should send it down 27 to TN 153, then down 153 to Interstate 75. That way, US 111 [II] would connect with US 11.
Quote from: usends on September 06, 2024, 04:02:55 PMThat being said, I think the route would be more useful if it overlapped US 27 for only 10 miles between Soddy-Daisy and north Chattanooga, and then replaced TN 153 to its terminus at jct. I-75.
I like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.
With Google Maps and GPS, route promotion is so 20th Century.
New scenic byways are created all the time, often to great fanfare. Promoting tourist routes does make a difference.
I do wonder how many people actually drive the byways. There are so many nowadays that new ones just seem like wistful "If you build it, they will come."
I suppose US 111 would attract a couple of roadgeeks.
I mean, as opposed to not wanting
anything at all to happen ever, making the hobby extremely boring?
Quote from: Rothman on September 07, 2024, 11:04:05 PMQuote from: JREwing78 on September 07, 2024, 06:34:49 PMI like this plan. It help establish the proposed US-111 as an alternate to I-75, and to a lesser degree I-24.
With Google Maps and GPS, route promotion is so 20th Century.
Perhaps, but we all have stories of how bad GPS directions have done us dirty. While a US-route designation may not bring the same guarantee of high-quality roadway an Interstate shield would bring, I would give more credence to following a single route designation connecting the two points than the salad of route numbers I'd have to follow now. Clearly Tennessee had something like this in mind when it built out TN-111.
Does anyone think this proposal will ever be officially implemented? To me, it seems more like a pipe dream (or a Fictional Highways proposal) than a legitimate proposal. Then again, I thought the US 78 extension was a bogus extension that shouldn't have been implemented but it was. I guess time will tell.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 08, 2024, 08:41:18 PMDoes anyone think this proposal will ever be officially implemented? To me, it seems more like a pipe dream (or a Fictional Highways proposal) than a legitimate proposal. Then again, I thought the US 78 extension was a bogus extension that shouldn't have been implemented but it was. I guess time will tell.
More probable than all the rot in the Fictional forum. As said up above, desperation leads to all sorts of byways and stuff like this bring proposed and it's easier than real economic development, so everyone involved can claim victory when the shields go up.
I like getting rid of the "hodgepodge of routes" being a benefit. Some roadgeeks have been complaining about US 202 for decades over its concurrencies.
I'm all for this proposal, and my preference would be for the southern end to follow TN 153 to I-75 so it can at least intersect US 11.
This neck of the woods is dear to my heart, as I went to college at Tennessee Tech in Cookeville, during which time I drove up and down TN 111 many times, and have followed the progress on the southern extension construction to Soddy-Daisy (and later expansion to four lanes) throughout the 90's and 00's.
I have not been on US 127 through Clinton Co., KY since it was improved and rerouted along a bypass of Albany, so one of these days I will have to check it out.
My one and only fear about this designation: that either KYTC or TDOT accidentally posts US 111 shields on 2-digit blanks instead of 3-digit blanks! It would be easy to do since all three digits are obviously narrow enough. I can see TDOT getting it right, but I wouldn't put it past KYTC to post narrow ones!
Quote from: wriddle082 on September 09, 2024, 01:16:18 AMI'm all for this proposal, and my preference would be for the southern end to follow TN 153 to I-75 so it can at least intersect US 11.
This neck of the woods is dear to my heart, as I went to college at Tennessee Tech in Cookeville, during which time I drove up and down TN 111 many times, and have followed the progress on the southern extension construction to Soddy-Daisy (and later expansion to four lanes) throughout the 90's and 00's.
I have not been on US 127 through Clinton Co., KY since it was improved and rerouted along a bypass of Albany, so one of these days I will have to check it out.
My one and only fear about this designation: that either KYTC or TDOT accidentally posts US 111 shields on 2-digit blanks instead of 3-digit blanks! It would be easy to do since all three digits are obviously narrow enough. I can see TDOT getting it right, but I wouldn't put it past KYTC to post narrow ones!
Why have all that wasted space? There's no legibility benefit to posting "111" on a three-digit shield, just more white space.
There are actually a fair number of square-blank US 127 signs on the Albany bypass, including a few assemblies with a square marker and a wide marker side-by-side.
Upon closer inspection, US 27 does intersect US 11. Coming from the south on Broad Street, there is a loop ramp from US 11/41/64/72 to US 27 north. One of the Y ramps from southbound US 27 leads to Broad Street. US 11 north and US 64 east depart US 41 at 20th Street. But you still have the useless concurrency of US 27 and US 111 to contend with -- much like the useless concurrency of US 48 and US 33/119 where one route (US 48) ends at I-79 and the other two roads continue.
Hot take, but any three-digit highway involving a 1 should use a two-digit shield. There's just too much wasted space there, encouraging ugly stuff like this to happen (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.1668353,-94.0015928,3a,15y,124.7h,95.55t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLa3rQxw_FSEX2CJIf_fXLQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-5.551230241480681%26panoid%3DLa3rQxw_FSEX2CJIf_fXLQ%26yaw%3D124.6950054075427!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkwMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D). Any one-digit US highway or two-digit including a 1 should use the 1961 spec shield; there is no legibility benefit to widening the shield for those numbers.
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 09, 2024, 02:37:57 PMHot take, but any three-digit highway involving a 1 should use a two-digit shield. There's just too much wasted space there, encouraging ugly stuff like this to happen (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.1668353,-94.0015928,3a,15y,124.7h,95.55t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLa3rQxw_FSEX2CJIf_fXLQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-5.551230241480681%26panoid%3DLa3rQxw_FSEX2CJIf_fXLQ%26yaw%3D124.6950054075427!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkwMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D). Any one-digit US highway or two-digit including a 1 should use the 1961 spec shield; there is no legibility benefit to widening the shield for those numbers.
I don't think that's solely a three-digit issue:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Fy1E1nBMjHn3KKPcA
Quote from: Rothman on September 09, 2024, 03:16:29 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on September 09, 2024, 02:37:57 PMHot take, but any three-digit highway involving a 1 should use a two-digit shield. There's just too much wasted space there, encouraging ugly stuff like this to happen (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.1668353,-94.0015928,3a,15y,124.7h,95.55t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLa3rQxw_FSEX2CJIf_fXLQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-5.551230241480681%26panoid%3DLa3rQxw_FSEX2CJIf_fXLQ%26yaw%3D124.6950054075427!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkwMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D). Any one-digit US highway or two-digit including a 1 should use the 1961 spec shield; there is no legibility benefit to widening the shield for those numbers.
I don't think that's solely a three-digit issue:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Fy1E1nBMjHn3KKPcA
Which is part of the point. The number 11 works best in a 1961-spec shield, and the number 111 works best in a 1971-spec two-digit shield.Get me a jury and show me how to make "111" look good in a three-digit shield and I'll... make cheese for you. (https://youtu.be/7uWW--w4SRs?si=04hqnfMf8FnDlsFV)
Sounds like a reasonable proposal. I think the intersections could be reworked in Somerset to have a continuous route instead of the two right turns to stay on the proposed US 111.
I can see why Tennessee would prefer 111 since it would replace the existing TN highway which I would guess is pretty important to the area. If it does go through, hopefully it comes with decommissioning routes like KY 461 and 1247. I think 111 could end at US 25 instead of having a 3/4 mile concurrency to I-75.
Side note: This sign placement is awful, completely hidden by the overpasses:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.032378,-85.3187463,3a,32.8y,131.09h,94.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swPsKonnaDKqee_QkrIDIlw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Keep in mind that TN 111 has already changed numbers once, at least the part from Cookeville to Static. It used to be TN 42, and there were even a few residual TN 42 mileage markers left along the route the last time I drove it.
I'm pretty sure that the KY 461 designation would be eliminated should the US 111 designation be applied.
As an alternative to having the US 25/US 111 concurrency, how about routing US 25 on I-75 and extending US 150 southeasterly to end at I-75?
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 09, 2024, 02:37:57 PMHot take, but any three-digit highway involving a 1 should use a two-digit shield. There's just too much wasted space there, encouraging ugly stuff like this to happen (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.1668353,-94.0015928,3a,15y,124.7h,95.55t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLa3rQxw_FSEX2CJIf_fXLQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-5.551230241480681%26panoid%3DLa3rQxw_FSEX2CJIf_fXLQ%26yaw%3D124.6950054075427!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkwMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D). Any one-digit US highway or two-digit including a 1 should use the 1961 spec shield; there is no legibility benefit to widening the shield for those numbers.
It is possible to make 111 look decent in a 3-digit VA shield
https://maps.app.goo.gl/sFkBZBMdhsbNFMdu7
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 10, 2024, 12:09:01 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on September 09, 2024, 02:37:57 PMHot take, but any three-digit highway involving a 1 should use a two-digit shield. There's just too much wasted space there, encouraging ugly stuff like this to happen (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.1668353,-94.0015928,3a,15y,124.7h,95.55t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLa3rQxw_FSEX2CJIf_fXLQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-5.551230241480681%26panoid%3DLa3rQxw_FSEX2CJIf_fXLQ%26yaw%3D124.6950054075427!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkwMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D). Any one-digit US highway or two-digit including a 1 should use the 1961 spec shield; there is no legibility benefit to widening the shield for those numbers.
It is possible to make 111 look decent in a 3-digit VA shield
https://maps.app.goo.gl/sFkBZBMdhsbNFMdu7
Indeed it is, and this is the type of spacing I would expect TDOT to use on a 3-digit shield.
At least I hope they don't try to do what Texas and Florida like to do with 3di interstate shields!
Update: A resolution has been filed in the Kentucky General Assembly urging KYTC and TDOT to petition AASHTO for the US 111 designation.
https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/recorddocuments/bill/25RS/hcr61/orig_bill.pdf
Quote from: hbelkins on February 25, 2025, 05:28:41 PMUpdate: A resolution has been filed in the Kentucky General Assembly urging KYTC and TDOT to petition AASHTO for the US 111 designation.
https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/recorddocuments/bill/25RS/hcr61/orig_bill.pdf
That resolution ^ describes the south terminus as follows...
QuoteTennessee Route 153 from the United States Highway 27 intersection to the United States Highway 11/64 intersection just before Interstate 75.
...which is absurd, because why would you not replace all of TN 153, all the way to I-75? Ultimately of course that segment would be up to TDOT (not KYTC), but still, the KGA didn't think that through. At least they demonstrate an awareness of US route numbering conventions:
QuoteThe proposed petition includes United States Highway 27 and Tennessee Route 153 in order to follow AASHTO's general principle that three-digit federal routes should be spur routes of a two-digit federal route, with its number incorporated as the last two digits of the spur route. If AASHTO does not deem this necessary, and Tennessee does not wish to extend United States Highway 111 to United States Highway 11, the last two segments in subsections (8) and (9) of Section 1 of this Resolution may be considered optional.
"Federal route" is a misleading term, but it's uttered surprisingly often by gov't officials, and even by state DOTs.
We'll have to see whether this goofy proposal is actually implemented. Then again, they approved US 163, US 191 (the senseless rerouting between West Yellowstone, MT and Douglas, AZ), US 400, US 412, and US 425, when none of those routes come anywhere close to US 12, US 25, US 63, or what's left of US 91.
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 09, 2024, 04:20:55 PMWhich is part of the point. The number 11 works best in a 1961-spec shield, and the number 111 works best in a 1971-spec two-digit shield.Get me a jury and show me how to make "111" look good in a three-digit shield and I'll... make cheese for you. (https://youtu.be/7uWW--w4SRs?si=04hqnfMf8FnDlsFV)
(https://i.imgur.com/h8sx93Q.png)
Colby is my favorite, in case you were wondering.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 25, 2025, 06:32:37 PMWe'll have to see whether this goofy proposal is actually implemented. Then again, they approved US 163, US 191 (the senseless rerouting between West Yellowstone, MT and Douglas, AZ), US 400, US 412, and US 425, when none of those routes come anywhere close to US 12, US 25, US 63, or what's left of US 91.
Senseless? I suppose they could have extended 666 instead, but the 191 extension was very logical.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 25, 2025, 06:32:37 PMWe'll have to see whether this goofy proposal is actually implemented. Then again, they approved US 163, US 191 (the senseless rerouting between West Yellowstone, MT and Douglas, AZ), US 400, US 412, and US 425, when none of those routes come anywhere close to US 12, US 25, US 63, or what's left of US 91.
The only goofy thing about this proposal was that it may have followed a useless concurrency with US 27 to Chattanooga so as long as TDOT gets it all the way to I-75 along TN 153 I think the goofiness is no where near this one.
Chattanooga is full of useless concurrencies. They already have a wacky routing where one would think US 41 should follow the route of US 11 and vice-versa. They should number this US 25W. The current US 25W could become US 25 or US 25C.
Putting a little more thought into whether this corridor deserves a US route designation. According to GMaps, it would be 216 miles, 3:54 travel time.
The proposed endpoints are already served by I-75 (218 miles, 3:23). Ah, but you want to avoid Knoxville? Well, you could instead drive almost the entire thing on US 27 (206 miles, 4:08). Or you could drive the majority of it via US 127 (219 miles, 4:24). Point being: how many inter-state designations do we need between Chattanooga and Mt. Vernon?
Another question: currently there's an unrelated KY hwy. 111 to the north of this proposed corridor. Does KYTC allow US and SH routes with the same number?
Reason I ask is: there was a time in AASH(T)O's history when they would tell the state DOTs, "Hey, if you're serious about a US route for your proposed corridor, let's see you prove it by unifying the entire corridor with a single state highway designation." Some states took them up on this, e.g. US 287 north of Yellowstone was initially unified under the MT 287 designation.
I wonder if it would be wise for AASHTO to go back to that procedure. In this case, I think KY and TN interests would find that KY 111/TN 111 would accomplish what they want to achieve. KYTC and TDOT would then decide to leave well-enough alone, and TNDOT could avoid the expense of replacing all their SH 111 signs with US 111.
Quote from: usends on May 27, 2025, 10:43:45 AMAnother question: currently there's an unrelated KY hwy. 111 to the north of this proposed corridor. Does KYTC allow US and SH routes with the same number?
US 79 and KY 79 is a glaring exception, even though there has never been a continuous US 79/KY 79 corridor. US 79 ends at US 68 east of downtown Russellville, while KY 79 begins north of downtown at old US 431.
US 52 and KY 52 is another exception, but Kentucky does not officially recognize US 52 as the two short segments in Pike County are maintained by West Virginia.
When I-24 was opened, KY 24 in northeastern Kentucky was renumbered to KY 324, KY 474, and KY 344. Yet nothing similar has been done for KY 69 (which is actually in the same area as I-69), KY 165, or KY 169. So who knows what KYTC might decide to do?
As far as Knoxville bypasses go, US 27 is a lot better route than US 127, especially the Tennessee portion.
The argument that this is already better served by I-75 is why I would prefer an alignment in Kentucky moving northwest towards Elizabethtown. That is the real undefined corridor here that could be useful as a US highway. Call it a spiritual successor to the US 37 proposal.
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 28, 2025, 12:57:32 AMThe argument that this is already better served by I-75 is why I would prefer an alignment in Kentucky moving northwest towards Elizabethtown. That is the real undefined corridor here that could be useful as a US highway. Call it a spiritual successor to the US 37 proposal.
We're moving into fictional territory here, but Kentucky has been working on a 2+1 reconfiguration of the KY 55-KY 555 corridor between Columbia (the Cumberland Parkway/Future I-365) and the Bluegrass Parkway, often called the Heartland Parkway. Add to that the TN 53/TN 56/KY 61 corridor between I-40 and Columbia, which is a modern two-lane highway, and the KY 555/US 62/KY 248/KY 44/KY 55/KY 155 corridor between the Bluegrass Parkway and I-265, which is also a modern two-lane road, and there you go.