Are there any two-lane (two way) roads in your area where passing is very common? It seems like on most two lane roads around here that have passing zones, passing isn't very common due to a combination of low speeds, heavy oncoming traffic, or just not being worth it if you're only on the road for a short distance.
However once you get into more rural areas, it becomes more common. It's particularly common on long-distance trunk highways such as the NY 104 super-2 between Sodus and Wolcott, which has good sightlines, plenty of passing zones, and relatively light traffic, yet the speed limit is only 55 mph where it would be 65 or even 70 in many other states, so to cruise at 55 is quite painful and pretty much a guarantee you'll get passed by other traffic if you do.
Passing is less common on the busier stretch between Williamson and Sodus because it's less of a super-2 and more of a super-2 lite with home and business driveways scattered along the route. Also, exceptionally long strings of traffic tend to form in both directions and state troopers are often stationed along this stretch, so passing with caution is advised even if one does happen upon a good opportunity.
It would be interesting to chart or graph the relationships between speed limit, AADT, and the amount of passing that occurs on a given road. Obviously high speed limit and low AADT is the ideal scenario for passing, yet the lower the AADT is, the fewer opportunities for passing will present themselves.
US 95 through most of Nevada has a speed limit of 70 mph and carries lots of truck traffic. It's mostly routed through valleys, so there are numerous stretches where a driver has several miles of unobstructed vision ahead, and with few intersecting roads out in the desert there aren't even many solid yellows on your side for that reason either.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 24, 2024, 09:20:04 PMUS 95 through most of Nevada has a speed limit of 70 mph and carries lots of truck traffic. It's mostly routed through valleys, so there are numerous stretches where a driver has several miles of unobstructed vision ahead, and with few intersecting roads out in the desert there aren't even many solid yellows on your side for that reason either.
Add "almost every rural 2-lane road in Nevada" to this. As far as most drivers are concerned (and the county sheriffs, for that matter), there are few speed limits on 2-lane roads in rural Nevada outside of small towns, work zones, or reservations. It's one of the few places in the country where "reasonable and prudent" remains the
de facto speed limit, even if NV never officially went back to it after NMSL was repealed. Some people go well under the limit, many go well over. I guarantee that, if you're going 70 on these roads, you'll either be passing a lot of people or being passed yourself (most likely some of both).
The U.P. of Michigan is a pretty good case example. It's comparable to the Adirondack region of upstate New York in general population and traffic management strategy.
US-2 between Iron Mountain and St. Ignace varies considerably in traffic load depending on the season, particularly in the types of vehicles common on the roadway. At peak times traffic counts are well north of 10,000 vehicles per day; during slower times of year it's closer to 2500-3000 vpd. While the roadway has significant stretches of places people can pass, traffic levels tend to limit who can do it. This results in platooning traffic and nasty head-on collisions when people miscalculate.
MDOT's strategy on this and other heavier-traffic 2-lanes is to throw more and longer passing lanes at the problem. Between Rapid River and St. Ignace (about 130 miles), MDOT has 12 sections of passing lane in each direction, which it heavily advertises in an effort to keep the impatient from making reckless passes. These passing lanes tend to be at least 2 miles long, meaning one rarely has to wait more than 5-10 minutes for a clear passing opportunity even on the busiest days, and there's plenty of room to complete the pass without resorting to heavy speeding.
Other similarly busy sections of 2 lane have received sections of passing lanes approx. every 10 miles - and MDOT isn't shy about making them longer as needed. On one uphill section of US-41 south of L'anse, the southbound set extends nearly 4 miles, takes a 2 mile break near Alberta, then returns for another 2 mile stretch. This is helpful when overtaking heavy logging trucks and other traffic that strains to make the relatively gentle climb.
On lower-traffic highways, passing sections are less frequent - maybe one section every 20 miles or so. This is generally adequate for those needs given their lighter traffic level and less frequent platooning of cars.
Since MDOT implemented heavier use of passing lanes staring in the 1990s, I find the drive noticeably smoother and calmer. Locals and frequent travelers get to know the passing zone locations well and can "time" their approaches to make the most of those lanes. It's particularly helpful in winter when there's a variety of folks, from those petrified that there's a snowy glaze on the surface, to those who bust through foot-deep snowdrifts with reckless abandon. The lanes help separate out the competing driving styles safely.
Obviously all of this is anecdotal. The State also threw a joker into the deck by posting seemingly random sections of 2-lane for 65mph while leaving the others at 55mph. I say random because the roadway quality and traffic levels posted at 65 mph v.s. the ones left at 55 mph are virtually identical. However, changing politics and safety concerns have meant no movement in posting the remaining appropriate sections for 65 mph.
Quote from: cl94 on September 24, 2024, 09:38:41 PMQuote from: gonealookin on September 24, 2024, 09:20:04 PMUS 95 through most of Nevada has a speed limit of 70 mph and carries lots of truck traffic. It's mostly routed through valleys, so there are numerous stretches where a driver has several miles of unobstructed vision ahead, and with few intersecting roads out in the desert there aren't even many solid yellows on your side for that reason either.
Add "almost every rural 2-lane road in Nevada" to this. As far as most drivers are concerned (and the county sheriffs, for that matter), there are few speed limits on 2-lane roads in rural Nevada outside of small towns, work zones, or reservations. It's one of the few places in the country where "reasonable and prudent" remains the de facto speed limit, even if NV never officially went back to it after NMSL was repealed. Some people go well under the limit, many go well over. I guarantee that, if you're going 70 on these roads, you'll either be passing a lot of people or being passed yourself (most likely some of both).
That's true, but in reference to the OP's last paragraph, on most of those roads AADT is so low that there's seldom a need to pass. If you're doing 75 and pass somebody, it can easily be another 8-10 minutes or more before you catch up to another vehicle. US 95 and US 93 would be the two roads where passing is most common because of higher AADT and a decent percentage of through truck traffic. US 6, US 50 and the numerous state highways that fit the description, you're going to do much less passing.
The ease of passing on most of US 95 is a reason why an extension of Interstate 11 north of Mercury isn't in the cards. That said, we do pay a cost for keeping it at two lanes by way of some deaths in head-on collisions.
Passing on two lane roads isn't common? Maybe it is all the rural farm and mountain roads around me, but the practice is normalized here (Fresno, the Central Valley and Sierra foothills).
MN TH 61 beyond the last passing lane at Gooseberry Falls because you get all the RVs and slow tourist cruisers. Road ideally probably needs a couple more passing lanes on the longer straightaway stretches in southwestern Cook County.
It's common on many rural/exurban roads in the northeast.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on September 25, 2024, 05:11:08 AMIt's common on many rural/exurban roads in the northeast.
I don't know. I've found more drivers are scared to pass on a two-laner in the East than out West (i.e., when there's a passing zone). I pass two to three cars with a slow driver at the front more frequently here than I experience when driving out West.
Eastern roads are also less likely to have a passing lane where there should be one. Quite frustrating.
That said, on KY 122, I've always been amused by the couple of "passing zones" that are literally the length of three dashed lines due to the curves/terrain. :D
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 24, 2024, 10:15:36 PMand there's plenty of room to complete the pass without resorting to heavy speeding
Provided the slower vehicles don't speed up. I don't know how many times I'm following a car going about 2-5 mph slower than I desire, and when we get to the passing lane the other car speeds up. I guess the 4-lane road makes them think it's safer to go faster, and they unconsciously do. So then I have to speed to get past.
And in the winter, often the right lane of the passing zone isn't as well plowed, so vehicles stay in the left lane even if they are slower.
About nine years ago I started a similar thread, "Is passing on two-lane roads a lost art?" (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16887.msg2107279#msg2107279) My observation was, and remains, that on large portions of the East Coast, a lot of drivers seem reluctant to pass even when there is plenty of room, and I suspect that part of it is a function of increased traffic and part of it is a function of people predominantly driving in urban areas where they just don't encounter that sort of driving very often. (I also wonder whether there's a generational aspect where those of us who are 50 or older are more comfortable with it than younger drivers.)
Certainly on trips to more rural areas out West I've seen more passing than I do in the Mid-Atlantic, and I think on the whole the same holds true in Florida as well.
Every road in the mountains in Colorado. Actually, basically any road not within twenty miles of I-25.
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 24, 2024, 10:15:36 PMMDOT's strategy on this and other heavier-traffic 2-lanes is to throw more and longer passing lanes at the problem. Between Rapid River and St. Ignace (about 130 miles), MDOT has 12 sections of passing lane in each direction, which it heavily advertises in an effort to keep the impatient from making reckless passes. These passing lanes tend to be at least 2 miles long, meaning one rarely has to wait more than 5-10 minutes for a clear passing opportunity even on the busiest days, and there's plenty of room to complete the pass without resorting to heavy speeding.
The fact that MDOT
has a strategy is majorly underappreciated. I wish I could say the same about NY, but unfortunately I don't think they even know what a passing lane
is outside of climbing a steep grade. :-(
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 25, 2024, 07:41:08 AMAbout nine years ago I started a similar thread, "Is passing on two-lane roads a lost art?" (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16887.msg2107279#msg2107279) My observation was, and remains, that on large portions of the East Coast, a lot of drivers seem reluctant to pass even when there is plenty of room, and I suspect that part of it is a function of increased traffic and part of it is a function of people predominantly driving in urban areas where they just don't encounter that sort of driving very often. (I also wonder whether there's a generational aspect where those of us who are 50 or older are more comfortable with it than younger drivers.)
Certainly on trips to more rural areas out West I've seen more passing than I do in the Mid-Atlantic, and I think on the whole the same holds true in Florida as well.
I definitely think there's something to the idea of people wanting to pass but being uncomfortable to do so, but it's not necessarily a generational thing (except perhaps as related to the decline of driving skills in general) because I'm only in my mid-20's and I'm quite comfortable with it.
If I get a good chance I make a concerted effort to pass calmly and
without exceeding my preferred cruising speed - ideally even leaving my cruise set the whole time - to combat the stereotype of passing on two lane roads being aggressive driving behavior. In fact, people
not passing when they want to drive faster and have a good chance to do so is what causes long strings of traffic to form and the ensuing "snowball effect" of approaching vehicles needing increasing space and distance to pass. This in turn makes it more likely that an actual aggressive driver will attempt to overtake too many vehicles at once and cause an accident, road rage, or both. So I definitely support any effort to normalize passing on two-lane roads, as it would go a long ways towards reducing the effects of a single slow driver on the roadway's operations and improving traffic flow overall.
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2024, 07:04:51 AMThat said, on KY 122, I've always been amused by the couple of "passing zones" that are literally the length of three dashed lines due to the curves/terrain. :D
There's a few of these in Alabama, especially along SR 5, which are like Minnesota "bypass lanes" in size. I think there are very few two-lane roads in Alabama where one doesn't try to pass...I guess some of the curvier sections of 176 and 25 probably don't have quite as many opportunities.
Pretty easy in most of Florida, since there's not much elevation outside of the Panhandle and Lake Wales Ridge. Passing lanes aren't quite as common, except for SR 60. Many of the busiest corridors have been widened over the years.
Quote from: webny99 on September 25, 2024, 01:06:14 PMIf I get a good chance I make a concerted effort to pass calmly and without exceeding my preferred cruising speed - ideally even leaving my cruise set the whole time - to combat the stereotype of passing on two lane roads being aggressive driving behavior.
I think extended tailgating of a slower driver in some effort to get them to use a turnout would be much worse behavior.
My preferred technique is to lay back far enough that they don't think I'm tailgating in any intimidating way. Then, when I see I'll have a passing opportunity as soon as the next oncoming vehicle passes, I move up close to the vehicle I'm following. Once I confirm that I can pass safely, I pull over into the opposing lane and hit the accelerator hard. I know I'm sometimes doing 90 or 95 mph for a few seconds, because I want to get my business finished and get back over into my correct lane ASAP. I then ease it back to cruising speed as soon as I'm sufficiently clear of the now-trailing vehicle.
This is most often the way I see it work when I'm being passed as well. Most people don't like seeing somebody who would obviously like to go faster in their rearview mirror for very long. I don't have any thought about "generational" diffferences in this, but it sounds like "geographical" differences between Nevada and New York might play a big role.
It's very common around here. There are four decently-long straight stretches on my thrice-weekly commute route and it's not uncommon to pass or be passed on them.
Threads like this just remind me how different the driving cultures are of the Northeast and the rest of the country. :)
Quote from: formulanone on September 25, 2024, 01:09:16 PMI think there are very few two-lane roads in Alabama where one doesn't try to pass...I guess some of the curvier sections of 176 and 25 probably don't have quite as many opportunities.
I try to avoid AL 53 between Ardmore and Huntsville as much as possible due to the fact it's still a 2-lane road north of Toney, as there's so much traffic going in and out of Huntsville through there passing is nearly impossible half of the time.
It happens here in Oregon, but the passing lanes tend to be too short, and sight lines unfavorable, especially in the mountains.
I'm definitely guilty of not passing when I probably should be. Here in CT, there aren't many stretches of road with enough sight distance, no crossroads, and no oncoming traffic to even consider passing very often. If you just hang back, it's likely that either you or the car in front of you will be turning off of that particular road soon anyway. I do get passed on the northernmost stretch of CT30 once in a while, but there's often a state trooper there to nix that, too.
To my knowledge, CT has no two-lane roads with a speed limit above 50, which also lowers the likelihood of passing.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 25, 2024, 01:47:24 PMI know I'm sometimes doing 90 or 95 mph for a few seconds
To your point about geographical differences... LOL at the idea of driving 90 or 95 anywhere in NY under any circumstances except
maybe on select parts of the Thruway, and even then you're asking to be ticketed. NY doesn't post anything higher than 55 mph on two-lane roads, so our baseline speeds are much lower than they would be in Nevada, and about 80 mph would be the fastest I would consider speeding to complete a passing maneuver.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 25, 2024, 01:47:24 PMMost people don't like seeing somebody who would obviously like to go faster in their rearview mirror for very long.
Also the exact opposite of the driving culture in the Northeast. Slower drivers around here
invite drivers who would like to go faster to sit in their rearview mirror for miles on end, and there's often not a whole lot the drivers behind them can do about it either.
Quote from: webny99 on September 25, 2024, 04:35:57 PMQuote from: gonealookin on September 25, 2024, 01:47:24 PMI know I'm sometimes doing 90 or 95 mph for a few seconds
To your point about geographical differences... LOL at the idea of driving 90 or 95 anywhere in NY under any circumstances except maybe on select parts of the Thruway, and even then you're asking to be ticketed. NY doesn't post anything higher than 55 mph on two-lane roads, so our baseline speeds are much lower than they would be in Nevada, and about 80 mph would be the fastest I would consider speeding to complete a passing maneuver.
I've sometimes hit 90 temporarily passing people on two-laners in NY. Gotta hit the gas to make the pass.
Don't assume that your personal driving style speaks for the whole state.
Getting close to or above 90 when passing is sometimes the safest way to complete the pass. If visibility is good, you want to spend as little time in the opposing lane as possible. Do I want to hit 90 when making a pass? No. But does it sometimes happen? I have done it on a few occasions, never intentionally.
And there are totally places in NY where such a pass could theoretically be safe. Not saying I have come close to 90 on a 2-lane road there, but being as I have literally driven the entire state highway system, I can say that such places exist.
Quote from: cl94 on September 25, 2024, 05:33:56 PMGetting close to or above 90 when passing is sometimes the safest way to complete the pass. If visibility is good, you want to spend as little time in the opposing lane as possible. Do I want to hit 90 when making a pass? No. But does it sometimes happen? I have done it on a few occasions, never intentionally.
If I
have to hit 90 in order to get around before the next oncoming vehicle is on me, I shouldn't be making the pass in the first place, and I don't. I think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.
It never really bothered me to briefly exceed the speed limit by 10-15 MPH if that was the most efficient way to get past a slow poke. To that end, US 95 in Nevada is one of those places where you need to often hit 85-90 MPH to pull off passes in a reasonable amount of time. I found myself doing that a lot on the ION Highway, especially upon entering Oregon.
It's funny seeing the argument about passing on the East Coast. I swear it's a culture thing.
Driving with my wife and her grandmother years ago, she complained that I drove onto the wrong side of the road to pass somebody. In a legal passing zone. At 50 MPH on a 50 MPH speed limit road because the car I passed was doing about 35. She complained to my wife's uncle that I was driving like a maniac because she didn't even understand the concept of passing a vehicle where legal. She was also born almost 30 years before the interstate highway system was created.
Not passing out east is 100% a culture thing. A lot of rural residents out west will also pull over to let faster vehicles by if passing is unsafe.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 25, 2024, 06:41:00 PMQuote from: cl94 on September 25, 2024, 05:33:56 PMGetting close to or above 90 when passing is sometimes the safest way to complete the pass. If visibility is good, you want to spend as little time in the opposing lane as possible. Do I want to hit 90 when making a pass? No. But does it sometimes happen? I have done it on a few occasions, never intentionally.
If I have to hit 90 in order to get around before the next oncoming vehicle is on me, I shouldn't be making the pass in the first place, and I don't. I think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.
I guess I should have been clearer. Every time I have gone 90+ during a pass, it's because I wasn't paying attention to the speedometer (because I was more worried about safely passing) and looked down to see I was going 90. If I think need to go well above the limit to safely pass, I don't pass except in extreme circumstances.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 25, 2024, 06:41:00 PMQuote from: cl94 on September 25, 2024, 05:33:56 PMGetting close to or above 90 when passing is sometimes the safest way to complete the pass. If visibility is good, you want to spend as little time in the opposing lane as possible. Do I want to hit 90 when making a pass? No. But does it sometimes happen? I have done it on a few occasions, never intentionally.
If I have to hit 90 in order to get around before the next oncoming vehicle is on me, I shouldn't be making the pass in the first place, and I don't. I think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.
Pfft. Make the pass.
Quote from: cl94 on September 25, 2024, 07:18:37 PMNot passing out east is 100% a culture thing. A lot of rural residents out west will also pull over to let faster vehicles by if passing is unsafe.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 25, 2024, 06:41:00 PMQuote from: cl94 on September 25, 2024, 05:33:56 PMGetting close to or above 90 when passing is sometimes the safest way to complete the pass. If visibility is good, you want to spend as little time in the opposing lane as possible. Do I want to hit 90 when making a pass? No. But does it sometimes happen? I have done it on a few occasions, never intentionally.
If I have to hit 90 in order to get around before the next oncoming vehicle is on me, I shouldn't be making the pass in the first place, and I don't. I think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.
I guess I should have been clearer. Every time I have gone 90+ during a pass, it's because I wasn't paying attention to the speedometer (because I was more worried about safely passing) and looked down to see I was going 90. If I think need to go well above the limit to safely pass, I don't pass except in extreme circumstances.
No need to clarify, I understood your point. As I said up above I'm trying to complete this maneuver that puts me in a lane I prefer not to be in as quickly as possible. As long as I feel safe doing it I don't give a rat's rear end whether I'm doing 80, 90, 95 whatever in a 70 mph zone.
SectorZ's comment about his grandmother above plus webny's comments just show me that there's a different attitude about speed numbers, East vs. West. Maybe 90 mph sounds insane to somebody from New York who's never hit a speed anywhere near that. But out here, heck, something like 350 of the 500 miles between Reno and Salt Lake City are posted at 80 mph, the majority of Nevada's wide open desert two-lane roads are posted at 70, and hitting 90 or 95 for a few moments isn't uncomfortable at all when you have clear visibility on a straight road and the only vehicle in sight is the one you're passing.
I don't miss the lack of a willingness to pass out east. I once passed 37 cars on US 1 on my way home between Boca Chica Key and Cudjoe Key in 2013. The impedes for that much passing was everyone refusing to pass someone going 30 MPH. I might have gotten maybe 7-10 MPH over the speed limit as I picked off 5-10 cars at a time.
Quote from: Rothman on September 25, 2024, 05:25:18 PMI've sometimes hit 90 temporarily passing people on two-laners in NY. Gotta hit the gas to make the pass.
Don't assume that your personal driving style speaks for the whole state.
I wasn't intending to make that assumption at all. Just pointing up the difference in what speeds are common a relatively hilly/mountainous and densely populated state like NY vs. a lightly populated state with many flat, wide open stretches like Nevada. Of course there are outlier scenarios in both directions.
Quote from: cl94 on September 25, 2024, 05:33:56 PMAnd there are totally places in NY where such a pass could theoretically be safe. Not saying I have come close to 90 on a 2-lane road there, but being as I have literally driven the entire state highway system, I can say that such places exist.
Sure there are - the NY 104 super-2 that I mentioned in the OP is one such example - but because our two-lane roads are capped at a 55 mph speed limit, the vehicle you're passing is probably not going much more than 65 or 70, so it's not usually necessary to speed to 90 mph to complete a pass even if it would be entirely possible.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 25, 2024, 06:41:00 PMI think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.
Absolutely - however again, because of the lower speed limits here and lack of truly wide open stretches of highway, that speed you catch yourself doing that seems surprisingly high is not usually as high as 90 mph - sure it
could be, but generally speaking, it'd usually be closer to 80 or maybe 85 mph rather than 90+.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 25, 2024, 07:32:11 PMMaybe 90 mph sounds insane to somebody from New York who's never hit a speed anywhere near that. But out here, heck, something like 350 of the 500 miles between Reno and Salt Lake City are posted at 80 mph, the majority of Nevada's wide open desert two-lane roads are posted at 70, and hitting 90 or 95 for a few moments isn't uncomfortable at all when you have clear visibility on a straight road and the only vehicle in sight is the one you're passing.
Fully agreed, that was really the whole point of my earlier comments. 90-95 mph doesn't sound insane to me at all, but most situations that I can think of where I'd be comfortable with doing those speeds, simply don't exist in the Northeast or are confined to full freeways rather than two-lane roads.
This depends entirely on the vehicle. Some are more capable of accelerating than others, especially around 40MPH. It's my belief that speed isn't as relevant to safety as is getting the heck out of the lane of oncoming traffic. Others will disagree. Their opinions are formed based on where they most commonly drive.
I live in the NW half of Arkansas, which other than interstates, a few major US and state highway segments, and some passing/climb lanes on other major roads after long stretches of 2 lane roads with no passing zones, the roads in rural areas are all 2 lane. With mountains and waterways galore, there are lots of curves and elevation changes, which makes the numerically rare passing zone shorter than most states. Unless you like being behind someone doing 10-15 MPH below the speed limit, you're going to do what it takes to complete a pass as quickly as possible to ensure it's done as safely as possible.
I drive a bone stock 2013 WRX hatch base model as my daily driver. At 265HP, it isn't particularly powerful given the average power of new vehicles these days, but since it's lighter than all but a few of them, it has decent acceleration. Dropping from 5th to 3rd will accomplish a passing maneuver in about 4 seconds to take advantage of the average length of passing zones in my area, but I won't speak of the speeds that are attained at the rejoining of the proper lane.
Um...I drive a 2020 base model Rogue. So, yes, I floor the thing to get that CVT up to 90. :D
Quote from: SectorZ on September 25, 2024, 07:02:56 PMIt's funny seeing the argument about passing on the East Coast. I swear it's a culture thing.
Driving with my wife and her grandmother years ago, she complained that I drove onto the wrong side of the road to pass somebody. In a legal passing zone. At 50 MPH on a 50 MPH speed limit road because the car I passed was doing about 35. She complained to my wife's uncle that I was driving like a maniac because she didn't even understand the concept of passing a vehicle where legal. She was also born almost 30 years before the interstate highway system was created.
My guess is that your grandmother either learned how to drive later in life than most of us did, or her formative driving years consisted of vehicles that weren't capable of our current interstate speeds. The "roads" of that era wouldn't allow such speeds either. If I spent the vast majority of my life driving less than 50MPH, I'd think that the way I drive now was maniacal. Heck, my wife thinks that anyway! She's Asian, though, and fits the sterotypical image of Asian drivers, so she has no room to criticize.
Remember that Bess Truman got Harry pulled over on the PA TPK for insisting he drive slowly in the left lane.
Quote from: Rothman on September 26, 2024, 06:41:17 PMRemember that Bess Truman got Harry pulled over on the PA TPK for insisting he drive slowly in the left lane.
I never heard that story. Tell us more.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 27, 2024, 09:21:28 AMQuote from: Rothman on September 26, 2024, 06:41:17 PMRemember that Bess Truman got Harry pulled over on the PA TPK for insisting he drive slowly in the left lane.
I never heard that story. Tell us more.
That's basically the story. Bess was scared of the high-speed road, insisted that Harry putter along in the left lane and they got pulled over by a cop for doing so.
https://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/the-time-harry-truman-got-pulled-over-on-the-pa-turnpike/
https://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/article/holy-cow-history-17854652.php
So things back then don't seem to change to today, except it's the state's residents doing the left lane parking
Quote from: Mr. Matté on September 27, 2024, 10:18:14 AMhttps://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/the-time-harry-truman-got-pulled-over-on-the-pa-turnpike/
https://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/article/holy-cow-history-17854652.php
So things back then don't seem to change to today, except it's the state's residents doing the left lane parking
Heh. I'm pretty sure the version of the story I read said he was going under 55, but yours is probably a better source than what I was going by.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on September 25, 2024, 12:00:26 AMMN TH 61 beyond the last passing lane at Gooseberry Falls because you get all the RVs and slow tourist cruisers. Road ideally probably needs a couple more passing lanes on the longer straightaway stretches in southwestern Cook County.
Beyond passing lanes, that section of 61 needs modernization in general. Much of it has narrow lanes, narrow shoulders, and trees and brush are right up against the roadway. A lot of the roadway also has nasty frost heaves in it. There's a lot of local and county highways built to better standards than 61 north of Two Harbors.
I think a series of 2-mile 4-lane passing lane sections between Two Harbors and the Canadian border would help break up the traffic platooning on weekends. It doesn't necessarily need 4-laning (though US-53 has similar traffic levels south of Cook and apparently merits it), but a ground-up rebuild to modern standards with regular passing lane sections would improve safety immensely.
I would be OK with MnDOT keeping the old 61 roadway as is and continuing the 4-laning up the coast to Grand Marais, but 85-90 miles of new 4-lane highway in approximately the middle of nowhere is a big ask. I would be happy with a rebuild of the existing 2-lane to modern standards with ROW set aside for a divided 4-lane highway if and when traffic merits it.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 25, 2024, 01:47:24 PMQuote from: webny99 on September 25, 2024, 01:06:14 PMIf I get a good chance I make a concerted effort to pass calmly and without exceeding my preferred cruising speed - ideally even leaving my cruise set the whole time - to combat the stereotype of passing on two lane roads being aggressive driving behavior.
I think extended tailgating of a slower driver in some effort to get them to use a turnout would be much worse behavior.
My preferred technique is to lay back far enough that they don't think I'm tailgating in any intimidating way. Then, when I see I'll have a passing opportunity as soon as the next oncoming vehicle passes, I move up close to the vehicle I'm following. Once I confirm that I can pass safely, I pull over into the opposing lane and hit the accelerator hard. I know I'm sometimes doing 90 or 95 mph for a few seconds, because I want to get my business finished and get back over into my correct lane ASAP. I then ease it back to cruising speed as soon as I'm sufficiently clear of the now-trailing vehicle.
Quote from: gonealookin on September 25, 2024, 06:41:00 PMQuote from: cl94 on September 25, 2024, 05:33:56 PMGetting close to or above 90 when passing is sometimes the safest way to complete the pass. If visibility is good, you want to spend as little time in the opposing lane as possible. Do I want to hit 90 when making a pass? No. But does it sometimes happen? I have done it on a few occasions, never intentionally.
If I have to hit 90 in order to get around before the next oncoming vehicle is on me, I shouldn't be making the pass in the first place, and I don't. I think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.
After nearly 30 years of driving and taking opportunity to pass on 2-lane highways, I don't f*** around. I don't assume my opening to pass will remain clear, or that people around me won't pull a stupid move at the worst time. If the opening is there, I take it, and the gas pedal is mashed to the floor until I've cleared the traffic and can safely merge back into my lane.
Yes, I occasionally exceed 90 during a pass on a 2-lane road. That is far safer than dawdling in the left lane a few extra seconds, having your passing opportunity evaporate entirely, and having to quickly shut down and merge back in before you're in a head-on collision.
It is far more difficult to build speed than to shed it; I will often hang back a little ways from the vehicle I'm passing, then floor it a couple seconds before the oncoming traffic clears. That way I'm already 10-20mph up on the car I'm passing when I pull out to pass it, the time spent in the left lane is brief, and I'm back in my lane considerably quicker than if I pulled out before flooring it.
Obviously, conditions, and my reaction to them, vary greatly - I sure as hell ain't touching 90 in the middle of a blizzard, or even a moderate rain event, or on a narrow county road with poor visibility. I'm probably not even attempting that pass at all. But if the road is dry, clear, and wide, and I'm passing, my throttle is pinned down until I complete the pass.
I've had one time a police officer took offense to this passing method, at least to the extent that it was worth a traffic stop. I was honest and explained the situation, and was let off with a warning.
I think it's interesting how many people are hitting 90 on two-lane roads. Out east, speed limits are capped at 55 (or lower), so even flooring it to pass people quickly, I'm not getting up to more than 75-80 before moving back over (my normal cruising speed in a 55 zone on a two-lane road is 60). Sure, speed limits are higher out west, but wouldn't that be counter-balanced by lower traffic volumes and longer sight lines, resulting in longer and more frequent passing opportunities?
Quote from: vdeane on September 30, 2024, 12:41:54 PMI think it's interesting how many people are hitting 90 on two-lane roads. Out east, speed limits are capped at 55 (or lower), so even flooring it to pass people quickly, I'm not getting up to more than 75-80 before moving back over (my normal cruising speed in a 55 zone on a two-lane road is 60). Sure, speed limits are higher out west, but wouldn't that be counter-balanced by lower traffic volumes and longer sight lines, resulting in longer and more frequent passing opportunities?
At least for me out here in the mountains, you might have a situation where there's a semi or RV in front of a line of four people and everyone is being gun shy to pass. If I have a long stretch where I can see for a mile or so and such an opening hasn't happened in a while due to terrain, I'm happy to pass all four, but I want to do it as quickly as possible.
Quote from: vdeane on September 30, 2024, 12:41:54 PMI think it's interesting how many people are hitting 90 on two-lane roads. Out east, speed limits are capped at 55 (or lower), so even flooring it to pass people quickly, I'm not getting up to more than 75-80 before moving back over (my normal cruising speed in a 55 zone on a two-lane road is 60). Sure, speed limits are higher out west, but wouldn't that be counter-balanced by lower traffic volumes and longer sight lines, resulting in longer and more frequent passing opportunities?
Florida has two-lane roads posted at 60 mph, though as a practical matter that's not all that different from 55.
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 29, 2024, 10:18:50 PMQuote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on September 25, 2024, 12:00:26 AMMN TH 61 beyond the last passing lane at Gooseberry Falls because you get all the RVs and slow tourist cruisers. Road ideally probably needs a couple more passing lanes on the longer straightaway stretches in southwestern Cook County.
Beyond passing lanes, that section of 61 needs modernization in general. Much of it has narrow lanes, narrow shoulders, and trees and brush are right up against the roadway. A lot of the roadway also has nasty frost heaves in it. There's a lot of local and county highways built to better standards than 61 north of Two Harbors.
I think a series of 2-mile 4-lane passing lane sections between Two Harbors and the Canadian border would help break up the traffic platooning on weekends. It doesn't necessarily need 4-laning (though US-53 has similar traffic levels south of Cook and apparently merits it), but a ground-up rebuild to modern standards with regular passing lane sections would improve safety immensely.
I would be OK with MnDOT keeping the old 61 roadway as is and continuing the 4-laning up the coast to Grand Marais, but 85-90 miles of new 4-lane highway in approximately the middle of nowhere is a big ask. I would be happy with a rebuild of the existing 2-lane to modern standards with ROW set aside for a divided 4-lane highway if and when traffic merits it.
MnDOT has done some fairly extensive work on 61 in the last several years in Cook County, including a modernization in Grand Marais and an overhaul of what was probably the worst section on the Grand Portage reservation. The roughest ride these days is probably the portion from Little Marais to the Lake/Cook county line. Unfortunately one major barrier (besides the standard excuses of funding/priority issues) to a more proper rebuild is probably the lack of alternatives to use as detours for such a major project.
Hit 90 out on NY 22 this past weekend passing someone. :D
Had a separate weird experience where I saw I had room to pass someone, a pick-up truck appeared in the lane I was in down the road, I moved over after the pass with plenty of room, but the pick-up truck still moved over to the shoulder.
Probably was thinking, "That crazy idiot...*grumble grumble*..."
Here in Portugal (and Europe in general) passing on 2 lane roads is pretty common, we only have double solid lines when there's a lot of traffic (AADTs of about 15000 or higher, I don't know if there's a fixed number) or tight curves.
Here's a photo of N244 I shot myself last June, with a (faint) dashed line between both directions (yellow lines are not used in Europe)
(https://www.skyscrapercity.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.skyscrapercity.com/attachments/20240629_170012-jpg.7490416//)
On roads like this one, it's normal to pass another car, as long as you do it in a high visibility area with caution and return to your lane ASAP. The speed limit on this kind of road is 90 km/h (about 55mph), depending on the road speeds of 60-65mph are common and you sometimes may have to hit 75mph to pass a semi-truck, but not much more than that.
We also have some super-two roads, which are mostly Itinerários Principais or Itinerários Complementares like the IP2 (picture below, also mine)
(https://www.skyscrapercity.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.skyscrapercity.com/attachments/20240629_172140-jpg.7490441/)
the speed limit is the same as the other roads (although I believe it should be at least 100km/h if the crash rate is low), cruising speeds on these roads however are much higher being about 65-75mph due to the better road quality. Portugal built a lot of these in the 80s and 90s as a cheaper alternative to freeways, however, the traffic levels were too high and there were a lot of fatalities due to head-on crashes. Passing lanes in this only exist when going uphill, sometimes they become 2+2 for a short stretch near an exit. Nowadays most of the old ones have been converted to freeways although some newer ones still exist in areas with low amounts of traffic, and allow for pretty decent speeds, I remember once my father doing about 75mph in one of these (with low traffic volumes) and being passed.
Even city streets have dashed lines, although passing inside towns is uncommon and most people would consider it very aggressive driving unless you're passing a vehicle that has to stop on the driving lane due to lack of parking spots (truck offloading, broken down car etc) or giving space to a cyclist.
So the other day I was following an orange Ford Raptor. In a 40 mph zone, he was going 45 mph or so. That's usually manageable but I was running late for work so when I hit a long passing zone, I quickly accelerated and pulled out to pass. And that was an easy decision. Like, this was maybe 1.5 out of 10 difficulty pass, if even that, and under normal circumstances, I probably wouldn't have even hit 60 mph at any point during the passing maneuver. Except that as I pulled alongside, I could sense him also speeding up. Oh, OK. Fine. I'd started accelerating suddenly and quickly enough that I had a significant edge, so I pinned it and made it past no problem and moved back over before the end of the passing zone. I glanced down at my speedometer at that point and I was going 77 but he was right on my tail so I crept up to 80 mph for good measure, but that wasn't good enough: he roared right past on a double solid line and pulled back in front just in time for both of us to slow down at the next intersection.
Then of course, at that intersection a DOT truck pulled out in front of both of us, and there were thankfully no more passing zones until my turn, so I was stuck behind both of them until he turned left at the next light. I wondered if he was going to intentionally stall off to try and make me wait for him to complete his turn, but I didn't wait to find out: I zoomed past on the shoulder without so much as a sideways glance.
In hindsight, my only regret is that I wish I'd given a thumbs-up while going past. Because I wasn't even mad. Shocked, certainly, but not angry. In fact, I was mostly just relieved to have escaped without anything worse happening. Anyways, now I'm wondering if it should it be an unspoken rule not to pass any new and expensive looking truck on a two-lane road (which I would hate, BTW, but I also hate other drivers compromising my safety and their own for no reason other than arrogance).
Quote from: webny99 on April 28, 2025, 12:41:38 PMI could sense him also speeding up.
I once had that happen while I was passing someone, except I was in a box truck that, with the pedal all the way to the floor, would top out at about 73 mph. Nothing I could do in that situation except fall back and just deal with his slower speed.
Quote from: webny99 on April 28, 2025, 12:41:38 PMSo the other day I was following an orange Ford Raptor. In a 40 mph zone, he was going 45 mph or so. That's usually manageable but I was running late for work so when I hit a long passing zone, I quickly accelerated and pulled out to pass. And that was an easy decision. Like, this was maybe 1.5 out of 10 difficulty pass, if even that, and under normal circumstances, I probably wouldn't have even hit 60 mph at any point during the passing maneuver. Except that as I pulled alongside, I could sense him also speeding up. Oh, OK. Fine. I'd started accelerating suddenly and quickly enough that I had a significant edge, so I pinned it and made it past no problem and moved back over before the end of the passing zone. I glanced down at my speedometer at that point and I was going 77 but he was right on my tail so I crept up to 80 mph for good measure, but that wasn't good enough: he roared right past on a double solid line and pulled back in front just in time for both of us to slow down at the next intersection.
He just wanted to show you his dick was bigger than yours.
Someone was going like 35 in a 55, I try to pass them and they speed up to like 70 so I ended up passing them going 80 :-D
WisDOT also installed some of those 'MDOT-style' passing lanes on WI 26 between I-41 in Oshkosh, WI and US 151 near Waupun, WI about 20 or so years ago. They were VERY welcomed.
Mike
Quote from: pderocco on April 28, 2025, 02:40:55 PMQuote from: webny99 on April 28, 2025, 12:41:38 PMSo the other day I was following an orange Ford Raptor. In a 40 mph zone, he was going 45 mph or so. ... I pinned it and made it past no problem and moved back over before the end of the passing zone. I glanced down at my speedometer at that point and I was going 77 but he was right on my tail so I crept up to 80 mph for good measure, but that wasn't good enough: he roared right past on a double solid line and pulled back in front just in time for both of us to slow down at the next intersection.
He just wanted to show you his dick was bigger than yours.
Some proof that was! :-D Having the urge to show that in the first place was one failure, and thinking that passing me would prove anything was an even bigger failure.
See also:
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2025, 07:46:30 PMQuoteYeah, there are some people that take it as a personal affront that they've been passed, like they're losing at driving somehow. Don't understand that mentality at all.
If being passed means he's losing at driving, then maybe he should have been driving faster to begin with?
Quote from: gonealookin on September 24, 2024, 11:46:06 PMThe ease of passing on most of US 95 is a reason why an extension of Interstate 11 north of Mercury isn't in the cards.
I wouldn't exactly call it easy. The Sunday that I took it, it was in that annoying spot where traffic was light enough that you could get up to speed pretty easy, but then would run across a slow vehicle right when there was a bunch of traffic coming the other way so you couldn't pass for a frustrating amount of time.
Full interstate upgrade might be overkill at this point, but something like alternating passing lanes, and maybe even four-lane divided on the US-6 overlap, would help a lot.
FL 29 in the Everglades. Very straight route through palm trees.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 02, 2025, 09:59:20 PMQuote from: gonealookin on September 24, 2024, 11:46:06 PMThe ease of passing on most of US 95 is a reason why an extension of Interstate 11 north of Mercury isn't in the cards.
I wouldn't exactly call it easy. The Sunday that I took it, it was in that annoying spot where traffic was light enough that you could get up to speed pretty easy, but then would run across a slow vehicle right when there was a bunch of traffic coming the other way so you couldn't pass for a frustrating amount of time.
Full interstate upgrade might be overkill at this point, but something like alternating passing lanes, and maybe even four-lane divided on the US-6 overlap, would help a lot.
The worst spot is the ION Highway north of Winnemucca (which isn't even on the proposed I-11 corridor). Problem is that bleeds into Oregon where they dragged their feet on posting a 55 MPH speed limit for years. The road width is more narrow than the Nevada side and I doubt Oregon will ever invest in passing lanes.
Quote from: Rothman on September 30, 2024, 08:54:26 PMHit 90 out on NY 22 this past weekend passing someone. :D
Noticed this looking back at the thread - I got a speeding ticket about 20 years ago on NY 22 between 346 and 7. I decided to pass someone who I think was doing about 45 or 50. I figured it's best to go up to 70 or 75 on the pass to complete as quickly as possible and get back over, but the officer did not agree. I think the ticket was for something like 72 in a 55. I only wanted to be doing 60 or 62 on that stretch. I maintain that aside from just staying behind the slow car (which I always tried to avoid there in case they were also turning left on 7 and would be poking along up through the curves where there is no passing for a while), it was safest to make my pass quickly.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2025, 10:03:42 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 02, 2025, 09:59:20 PMQuote from: gonealookin on September 24, 2024, 11:46:06 PMThe ease of passing on most of US 95 is a reason why an extension of Interstate 11 north of Mercury isn't in the cards.
I wouldn't exactly call it easy. The Sunday that I took it, it was in that annoying spot where traffic was light enough that you could get up to speed pretty easy, but then would run across a slow vehicle right when there was a bunch of traffic coming the other way so you couldn't pass for a frustrating amount of time.
Full interstate upgrade might be overkill at this point, but something like alternating passing lanes, and maybe even four-lane divided on the US-6 overlap, would help a lot.
The worst spot is the ION Highway north of Winnemucca (which isn't even on the proposed I-11 corridor). Problem is that bleeds into Oregon where they dragged their feet on posting a 55 MPH speed limit for years. The road width is more narrow than the Nevada side and I doubt Oregon will ever invest in passing lanes.
Yup. It took until 2015 and the Oregon legislature overriding Oregon's DOT to get the speed limit on our stretch of US 95 raised to 70 mph.
And I agree on the unlikelihood of seeing any increased passing lane construction.
Quote from: pderocco on April 28, 2025, 02:40:55 PMHe just wanted to show you his dick was SMALLER than yours.
FIFY :bigass: :pan: