This is interesting. Who follows this? For me milk is the biggest one as I've noticed some milk expires before best by x date. I love sushi but won't eat it after it says not to because of how many horror stories I've heard. California is set to become the first state to put it into law to ban the practice of using such labels.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/nutrition/california-becomes-first-state-to-ban-best-before-and-sell-by-labels-on-food/ar-AA1rDKu6?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=e027af56d6cd43a0a9cc1e93f93d6fab&ei=14
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 03, 2024, 05:19:00 PMCalifornia is set to become the first state to put it into law to ban the practice of using such labels.
Of course they are. California loves banning things for no reason.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on October 03, 2024, 05:20:17 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on October 03, 2024, 05:19:00 PMCalifornia is set to become the first state to put it into law to ban the practice of using such labels.
Of course they are. California loves banning things for no reason.
I certainly don't believe it will do much to reduce food waste just like banning plastic straws will reduce plastic usage much but how much of a benefit are these labels?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 03, 2024, 05:25:57 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on October 03, 2024, 05:20:17 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on October 03, 2024, 05:19:00 PMCalifornia is set to become the first state to put it into law to ban the practice of using such labels.
Of course they are. California loves banning things for no reason.
I certainly don't believe it will do much to reduce food waste just like banning plastic straws will reduce plastic usage much but how much of a benefit are these labels?
Well, it will make things worse because food poisoning rates will go up significantly.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on October 03, 2024, 05:29:18 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on October 03, 2024, 05:25:57 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on October 03, 2024, 05:20:17 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on October 03, 2024, 05:19:00 PMCalifornia is set to become the first state to put it into law to ban the practice of using such labels.
Of course they are. California loves banning things for no reason.
I certainly don't believe it will do much to reduce food waste just like banning plastic straws will reduce plastic usage much but how much of a benefit are these labels?
Well, it will make things worse because food poisoning rates will go up significantly.
Genuine question not trying to be a dick here, but is there any evidence to support this? Because the article says that there's really no empirical data that creates these dates.
And if you would just understand the basics of recognizing food poisoning or bad food, you could also prevent food poisoning. I know this because one time I ate some gas station sushi that just didn't smell right and I knew I shouldn't have eaten it, but I said ah fuck it. I'm no stranger to parasites either and I'm not really scared of them, but they're not too cool. Ever had a tapeworm? I wouldn't recommend it.
This law only changes wording. It doesn't remove the expiration date entirely.
Oh, a great change! "UB 10/4/24" would eliminate so much confusion which is caused by other cryptic messages!
I'm struggling to get how any normal person would notice such a nominal label change?
Now if P65 labels could be banned, that would be great. I still need to remove the glue from the one I pulled off the window of my new Corolla.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 03, 2024, 07:24:23 PMI'm struggling to get how any normal person would notice such a nominal label change?
Now if P65 labels could be banned, that would be great. I still need to remove the glue from the one I pulled off the window of my new Corolla.
I'd advise a scraping tool, but the scraping tool and this Internet post are also known to cause cancer in the State of California.
Dairy products are generally the only thing I abide by the Sell / Use By date. That bottle of oil and vinegar salad dressing? Much less concerned with it being expired by a month or two if refrigerated.
Sounds like they're changing how the label is phrased and not actually banning it, contrary to the headline. Should make things clearer, at least. I would hate for them to go away, since when I buy things like bread, I look for the one with the date furthest out in the future (I've had issues with bread molding before I use it all in the past, one loaf even doing so the day after I bought it!).
Incidentally, I misread the thread title and thought this was going to be a list thread for food labels we like until I read the article and the OP.
Quote from: vdeane on October 03, 2024, 08:08:10 PMSounds like they're changing how the label is phrased and not actually banning it, contrary to the headline. Should make things clearer, at least. I would hate for them to go away, since when I buy things like bread, I look for the one with the date furthest out in the future (I've had issues with bread molding before I use it all in the past, one loaf even doing so the day after I bought it!).
Incidentally, I misread the thread title and thought this was going to be a list thread for food labels we like until I read the article and the OP.
Maybe I am of a different mindset, but I would put more determination on customer. For me, good labeling would be "manufacturing date ...., normal shelf (fridge) life X days (months, years)"
Allows a bit more judgement...
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 03, 2024, 05:19:00 PMCalifornia is set to become the first state to put it into law to ban the practice of using such labels.
Expiration date labels contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.
Milk expiration dates are pretty exact around here, which I appreciate.
Those dates are done at the behest of liability lawyers. The contents may well be perfectly edible, tasty and nutritious, but are not *salable*, this for legal/liability reasons in the supply chain. If in doubt, I always say to "use your own judgment". For example, for all of my life, I have regarded liquid milk as generally being good for a week after the date on the label, but I have always taste tested it first before drinking it.
I am also aware of some European countries that allow 'expired' product to be sold (at a discount) at retail grocery stores if there are 'at your own risk' warnings posted in the stores.
Mike
As a sushi lover, I eat a lot of sushi. I'm not rich so I eat either gas station or grocery store sushi most of the time. Many many times I've seen boxes of sushi that look utterly disgusting and it's hard to believe that anybody would eat that.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 04, 2024, 12:20:26 PMAs a sushi lover, I eat a lot of sushi. I'm not rich so I eat either gas station or grocery store sushi most of the time. Many many times I've seen boxes of sushi that look utterly disgusting and it's hard to believe that anybody would eat that.
A better question is if supply chain took proper care of the product, e.g. salmon was properly deep frozen.
I've found that milk almost always lasts at least a week past the sell-by date, but I pour some and sniff it carefully before drinking it to make sure. We buy 2% milk, which might make a difference—I've heard that whole milk tends to spoil more quickly, but I don't know because the only time I buy whole milk is if a recipe specifically calls for it, and then I buy the smallest quantity I can get.
Something odd I've noted, though, that I've never understood is that the "organic" milk (Horizon being the one with which I'm most familiar) usually has a sell-by date several weeks after the regular store brand. I've always thought that seems backwards. You'd think "organic" products wouldn't last as long. When I was single, I often bought Horizon, even though it cost more, precisely because it would keep longer. I don't do that now because my wife likes to bake and that means we almost always use up the half-gallon container within about a week after the sell-by date (and if there's any doubt, I'll use what's left to make waffles on the weekend).
Quote from: kalvado on October 04, 2024, 01:44:52 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on October 04, 2024, 12:20:26 PMAs a sushi lover, I eat a lot of sushi. I'm not rich so I eat either gas station or grocery store sushi most of the time. Many many times I've seen boxes of sushi that look utterly disgusting and it's hard to believe that anybody would eat that.
A better question is if supply chain took proper care of the product, e.g. salmon was properly deep frozen.
So many people take products off the shelves that spoil quick too and then just leave them out because they decide not to buy it and store associates either don't bother putting it back or don't see it. There's so many ways to prevent food waste but we choose not to.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 04, 2024, 01:53:59 PMI've found that milk almost always lasts at least a week past the sell-by date, but I pour some and sniff it carefully before drinking it to make sure. We buy 2% milk, which might make a difference—I've heard that whole milk tends to spoil more quickly, but I don't know because the only time I buy whole milk is if a recipe specifically calls for it, and then I buy the smallest quantity I can get.
Something odd I've noted, though, that I've never understood is that the "organic" milk (Horizon being the one with which I'm most familiar) usually has a sell-by date several weeks after the regular store brand. I've always thought that seems backwards. You'd think "organic" products wouldn't last as long. When I was single, I often bought Horizon, even though it cost more, precisely because it would keep longer. I don't do that now because my wife likes to bake and that means we almost always use up the half-gallon container within about a week after the sell-by date (and if there's any doubt, I'll use what's left to make waffles on the weekend).
Is it ultrapasteurized instead of just pasteurized?
Whatever date is used in NY absolutely does not allow a week afterwards for skim milk. A day or two after, you can smell it.
Quote from: Big John on October 04, 2024, 02:47:38 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on October 04, 2024, 01:53:59 PMI've found that milk almost always lasts at least a week past the sell-by date, but I pour some and sniff it carefully before drinking it to make sure. We buy 2% milk, which might make a difference—I've heard that whole milk tends to spoil more quickly, but I don't know because the only time I buy whole milk is if a recipe specifically calls for it, and then I buy the smallest quantity I can get.
Something odd I've noted, though, that I've never understood is that the "organic" milk (Horizon being the one with which I'm most familiar) usually has a sell-by date several weeks after the regular store brand. I've always thought that seems backwards. You'd think "organic" products wouldn't last as long. When I was single, I often bought Horizon, even though it cost more, precisely because it would keep longer. I don't do that now because my wife likes to bake and that means we almost always use up the half-gallon container within about a week after the sell-by date (and if there's any doubt, I'll use what's left to make waffles on the weekend).
Is it ultrapasteurized instead of just pasteurized?
I have no idea. If I remember, I'll look when I'm at the store this weekend, but odds are I will forget because I don't believe we need anything else from that particular part of the store.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 03, 2024, 08:47:29 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on October 03, 2024, 05:19:00 PMCalifornia is set to become the first state to put it into law to ban the practice of using such labels.
Expiration date labels contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.
Reproduction also creates reproductive harm in the State of California.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 04, 2024, 01:53:59 PMSomething odd I've noted, though, that I've never understood is that the "organic" milk (Horizon being the one with which I'm most familiar) usually has a sell-by date several weeks after the regular store brand. I've always thought that seems backwards. You'd think "organic" products wouldn't last as long. When I was single, I often bought Horizon, even though it cost more, precisely because it would keep longer. I don't do that now because my wife likes to bake and that means we almost always use up the half-gallon container within about a week after the sell-by date (and if there's any doubt, I'll use what's left to make waffles on the weekend).
My kids drink Horizon and this also puzzles me. I still can't wrap my head around Chobani lasting 3-4 weeks when a decade ago, any yogurt was good for 5 days, tops.
It's just one of those things I don't want to think about, but maybe in case there's a shipping delay in getting my unfortunate body back home, I'll be well-preserved for the occasion.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 04, 2024, 02:51:17 PMQuote from: Big John on October 04, 2024, 02:47:38 PMQuote from: 1995hoo on October 04, 2024, 01:53:59 PMI've found that milk almost always lasts at least a week past the sell-by date, but I pour some and sniff it carefully before drinking it to make sure. We buy 2% milk, which might make a difference—I've heard that whole milk tends to spoil more quickly, but I don't know because the only time I buy whole milk is if a recipe specifically calls for it, and then I buy the smallest quantity I can get.
Something odd I've noted, though, that I've never understood is that the "organic" milk (Horizon being the one with which I'm most familiar) usually has a sell-by date several weeks after the regular store brand. I've always thought that seems backwards. You'd think "organic" products wouldn't last as long. When I was single, I often bought Horizon, even though it cost more, precisely because it would keep longer. I don't do that now because my wife likes to bake and that means we almost always use up the half-gallon container within about a week after the sell-by date (and if there's any doubt, I'll use what's left to make waffles on the weekend).
Is it ultrapasteurized instead of just pasteurized?
I have no idea. If I remember, I'll look when I'm at the store this weekend, but odds are I will forget because I don't believe we need anything else from that particular part of the store.
I looked it up, says UHT, meaning Ultra Heat Treated, synonymous with ultra-pasteurized.
https://horizon.com/about-us/what-is-shelf-stable/
Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2024, 02:49:19 PMWhatever date is used in NY absolutely does not allow a week afterwards for skim milk. A day or two after, you can smell it.
I suspect a lot of this is brand and store dependent. The 1% milk Mom buys for Dad at Wegmans tends to last a really long time after the date. Meanwhile, meat bought at Hannaford will easily last a week. Meat bought at Price Chopper only lasts a day or two, and that's if you're lucky.
Quote from: vdeane on October 04, 2024, 10:36:36 PMQuote from: Rothman on October 04, 2024, 02:49:19 PMWhatever date is used in NY absolutely does not allow a week afterwards for skim milk. A day or two after, you can smell it.
I suspect a lot of this is brand and store dependent. The 1% milk Mom buys for Dad at Wegmans tends to last a really long time after the date. Meanwhile, meat bought at Hannaford will easily last a week. Meat bought at Price Chopper only lasts a day or two, and that's if you're lucky.
I find Wegmans just sells fresher milk with dates further in the future compared to Walmart and other markets. Still, the date rolls around and within a couple days, kaputsky.
Quote from: vdeane on October 04, 2024, 10:36:36 PMI suspect a lot of this is brand and store dependent.
I agree. It probably depends a lot on how it is handled during shipping and in the store. The milk we buy at one store often goes bad a couple of days before the expiration date. At another store, it lasts a day or two after, even though those expiration dates may be a week longer than at the other store.
Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2024, 11:00:30 PMQuote from: vdeane on October 04, 2024, 10:36:36 PMQuote from: Rothman on October 04, 2024, 02:49:19 PMWhatever date is used in NY absolutely does not allow a week afterwards for skim milk. A day or two after, you can smell it.
I suspect a lot of this is brand and store dependent. The 1% milk Mom buys for Dad at Wegmans tends to last a really long time after the date. Meanwhile, meat bought at Hannaford will easily last a week. Meat bought at Price Chopper only lasts a day or two, and that's if you're lucky.
I find Wegmans just sells fresher milk with dates further in the future compared to Walmart and other markets. Still, the date rolls around and within a couple days, kaputsky.
Huh. Seems like my parents get better results with their Wegmans milk... then again
@GaryV's comment might apply here. Mom would be buying from Rochester-area Wegmans locations (usually Pittsford) which would be supplied locally from the Brooks Ave distribution center. In your case, you're probably buying from a Syracuse-area Wegmans... which would also be supplied from the Brooks Ave distribution center, adding an hour or two travel time while its trucked over.
I just finished a container of Wegmans 2% milk that had a sell-by date of September 30. It was fine. Sniffed carefully at it after pouring and before drinking it, of course. Regarding vdeane's comment about distribution centers, I have no idea who supplies their stores here.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 07, 2024, 09:24:43 PMI just finished a container of Wegmans 2% milk that had a sell-by date of September 30. It was fine. Sniffed carefully at it after pouring and before drinking it, of course. Regarding vdeane's comment about distribution centers, I have no idea who supplies their stores here.
As far as I'm aware, the Mid-Atlantic/Southern locations are supplied by the RSC distribution center in Pennsylvania.
Maybe you people have just built up an immunity to bad milk through long-term exposure.
Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2024, 10:01:53 PMMaybe you people have just built up an immunity to bad milk through long-term exposure.
As far as I understand, shelf life of closed package is limited by efficiency of pasteurization (bacteria kill is an exponential process, so a few remains in regular pasteurization); and with external contamination once the lid is opened.
All that is overridden with residual antibiotics concentration. So long life of the opened package indicates effective antibiotics concentration. YMMV.
We only buy whole milk around here. The kid drinks it and we use it for cooking. I've had it still smell fine about 10 days after the expiration date.
My experience is that there's a good chance a food item is spoiled or moldy long before the expiration date.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 08, 2024, 05:52:07 PMWe only buy whole milk around here. The kid drinks it and we use it for cooking. I've had it still smell fine about 10 days after the expiration date.
I also exclusively use whole milk nowadays, because I wasn't allowed to drink it as a child.
Quote from: epzik8 on October 09, 2024, 08:49:59 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on October 08, 2024, 05:52:07 PMWe only buy whole milk around here. The kid drinks it and we use it for cooking. I've had it still smell fine about 10 days after the expiration date.
I also exclusively use whole milk nowadays, because I wasn't allowed to drink it as a child.
Why not?
Quote from: Rothman on October 09, 2024, 11:39:46 PMQuote from: epzik8 on October 09, 2024, 08:49:59 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on October 08, 2024, 05:52:07 PMWe only buy whole milk around here. The kid drinks it and we use it for cooking. I've had it still smell fine about 10 days after the expiration date.
I also exclusively use whole milk nowadays, because I wasn't allowed to drink it as a child.
Why not?
"Too fatty"
Quote from: bandit957 on October 09, 2024, 08:28:28 PMMy experience is that there's a good chance a food item is spoiled or moldy long before the expiration date.
Mine is the exact opposite.
Use By - for the consumer to take care as this is when they expect the product will have gone bad. Some stuff (eg milk) you'd know if its gone bad, but other stuff (eg meat) gets bad a bit before it is noticeable.
Sell Buy - for the store to reduce the price and get rid of it as it is close to going bad so they don't get refunds from people buying it for a couple of days' time (more true now with customers using 'click and collect' or having home delivery, so they are removed from the process of picking items off shelves).
Best Before - for the manufacturer to avoid paying refunds if it may have gone bad a considerable time later. This stuff, if the container is unopened, is normally fine for quite some time and the date is an arbitrary 6 months, 1 year, 2 years after manufacture.
The problem isn't these dates existing, but people not understanding what each means and throwing stuff out for reaching the latter two categories, despite it being fine.