Just for fun... what modern cars or car brands won't you touch even if you could afford them. By "modern", I'm defining it as "current or past four model years", and include a reason.
For starters, here is my list:
- Tesla - There are multiple obvious reasons, including the escapee from a 1990s video game called a Cybertruck
- Any vehicle that lacks Android Auto. If I used a IPhone, any vehicle that lacks Car Play
- Hyandai/Kia - Vehicle theft issues that could cause higher than expected insurance costs
- Any electric car
- Any German car due to maintenance issues
Thanks, but I prefer my dullmobiles.
Honestly, pretty much all of them. Everything I've been interested in that's been put out in the past few years is either uninteresting, out of my budget (the dichotomy of Toyota, with anything of theirs that interests me starting at 45 grand and up), showing reliability issues with age (looking at you, Honda, with your revolving door of recalls), or on an ancient chassis (the bones of the Lexus IS date back to 2005). I have no problem with electric vehicles and would consider the upcoming Honda Prelude if the other hybrid Hondas didn't have current recalls out for faulty fuel pumps.
The Mazda 3 is on my list of potential buys though.
Mine is similar to the list in the OP, except that I'd definitely jump on an EV if I could afford it, and I couldn't give two shits about having a Auto Play Car Android or whatever since we have a perfectly good radio station in Las Vegas. Hyundai/Kia being a Big No is probably higher on the list, though, since Las Vegas is a high-crime city and Hyundai/Kia vulnerabilities are well known to the local thieves.
Quote from: Takumi on November 12, 2024, 06:56:30 PMThe Mazda 3 is on my list of potential buys though.
You get a recommend from me at least. Love my 2016. Not sure how the current (2019-2025) generation is compared to mine, but I've had 8 years/98K miles of trouble free existence with it. Love the gas mileage and the back roads handling of it. I can even cram my road bicycle in whole with the seat down with the hatchback.
ZLoth- I am almost entirely with you on your five. Even if I had unlimited money I wouldn't buy any car that involves too much money to maintain just because of the pain involved.
Anything from GM. The 2010 Camaro SS and 2014 Sonic LT turbo were complete trash. The build quality by far was the worst on those two cars over anything else I owned. GM moving towards being an EV CUV company just adds to my lack of desire to buy another of their products.
I don't see myself as Tesla guy, gadgets and smug car lack of charm don't do it for me.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 12, 2024, 07:44:51 PMAnything from GM. The 2010 Camaro SS and 2014 Sonic LT turbo were complete trash. The build quality by far was the worst on those two cars over anything else I owned. GM moving towards being an EV CUV company just adds to my lack of desire to buy another of their products.
I will add the only non-Nissan Japanese car I'd never consider is the Honda Prologue, given it's just a Chevy Blazer EV with Apple Carplay.
Anybody who took a bailout back several years ago. That rules out any GM brand, for starters -- which sucks because in my life I've owned an Oldsmobile, two Chevys, and two Saturns, and am now driving an old Chevy pickup. No more Government Motors.
Quote from: SectorZ on November 12, 2024, 07:46:27 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on November 12, 2024, 07:44:51 PMAnything from GM. The 2010 Camaro SS and 2014 Sonic LT turbo were complete trash. The build quality by far was the worst on those two cars over anything else I owned. GM moving towards being an EV CUV company just adds to my lack of desire to buy another of their products.
I will add the only non-Nissan Japanese car I'd never consider is the Honda Prologue, given it's just a Chevy Blazer EV with Apple Carplay.
Nissan might be a tough sell for me also. Big Altima Energy has buried the Nissan brand reputation.
I've been partial to Japanese vehicles. Owned a Nissan, then a Toyota, then since 2003 numerous Hondas.
What I won't purchase unless I absolutely had to - many American cars - Fords, Chevys, etc.
Quote from: SectorZ on November 12, 2024, 07:32:46 PMQuote from: Takumi on November 12, 2024, 06:56:30 PMThe Mazda 3 is on my list of potential buys though.
You get a recommend from me at least. Love my 2016. Not sure how the current (2019-2025) generation is compared to mine, but I've had 8 years/98K miles of trouble free existence with it. Love the gas mileage and the back roads handling of it. I can even cram my road bicycle in whole with the seat down with the hatchback.
I don't like the styling of the current gen 3 hatch, but it does look like a compelling package. I'd get a 2022 or newer turbo sedan; I say 2022 because that was the year Mazda finally got the turbo engine sorted. I like the 6 better, as it has better suspension and a nicer interior, but it was discontinued in the US after 2021. Before 2021, the 2.5T had cylinder head cooling issues that led to the head cracking, and in 2021 it had pandemic-affected cheaper valve seals that led to oil consumption. The latter is an easier fix so I would consider a 2021 6.
If not for Honda's current woes I would get a 2023+ Accord hybrid. But I don't want my car randomly catching on fire because the fuel pump broke.
It would be a much shorter list if I just went by what I would purchase and why:
* Honda, because over the years they seem to really get what is practical to consumers. The last one I ever drove was actually a rental (I know, this is rare) CRV a couple of years ago. The Apple CarPlay was flawless, the other misc. infotainment and other dashboard setting options seemed logical and useful, the automated cruise control seemed to function flawlessly, and the same reliable Honda driving experience seemed to still be there, based on my experience owning an Element bought new from 2004 to 2007.
* Jeep, mostly for nostalgia. Had an XJ Cherokee for several years and enjoyed it immensely, especially the 4.0L inline 6, but of course they don't make those anymore. But on two different occasions this year I have rented Wrangler 4XE's, which are the plug in hybrid four door models. I really enjoyed driving them, and their infotainment systems seemed to work well.
* Toyota, but only as a last resort. They're quite dull, but reliable. I had two of them when I was younger, and grew bored of them even back then.
* Subaru, because the concept is appealing and practical. Though the head gasket issue does concern me a bit, I think they have been trying to alleviate that issue over the past few years.
I would also consider Acura or Lexus as they are the luxury marques of two of the makes mentioned above, though they are out of my price range. Just about any other brand not mentioned above, I have issues with and likely would not consider.
FWIW my wife and I are both approaching 200,000 on our Subarus. Neither has shown indications of a head gasket leak.
The bigger problem I've found with Subaru is outrageously high labor costs for service. The dealer in Fresno wanted $900 in labor to change my four plugs. Instead I have changed them myself with the assistance of my bother in law on both vehicles. I don't know how many people would be willing to go that far to change plugs or know someone with enough mechanical know how to help with the change.
Quote from: Takumi on November 12, 2024, 06:56:30 PMshowing reliability issues with age (looking at you, Honda, with your revolving door of recalls)
Interestingly, my 2014 Civic has avoided all of that. Aside from tire issues, the only non-routine repair it's needed is to replace a wheel bearing a year or two ago. I wonder what happened to the company.
Quote from: vdeane on November 12, 2024, 08:50:32 PMQuote from: Takumi on November 12, 2024, 06:56:30 PMshowing reliability issues with age (looking at you, Honda, with your revolving door of recalls)
Interestingly, my 2014 Civic has avoided all of that. Aside from tire issues, the only non-routine repair it's needed is to replace a wheel bearing a year or two ago. I wonder what happened to the company.
The issues started with the next generation. 2016-2021 Civics had issues with the AC weakening prematurely, and the 1.5L turbo engine is...well, I'll be charitable and call it undercooked, with oil dilution issues in its early years and head gasket issues in recent years.
After owning my 2020 Nissan Rogue, I might not own a Nissan again. I like some of its features, like the auto-stick and decent clearance, but maintenance issues have been a big concern and it has less than 100,000 miles on it.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 12, 2024, 07:47:47 PMAnybody who took a bailout back several years ago. That rules out any GM brand, for starters -- which sucks because in my life I've owned an Oldsmobile, two Chevys, and two Saturns, and am now driving an old Chevy pickup. No more Government Motors.
Including me, my family has owned the first two makes that you mentioned, plus a couple of Cadillacs. But with the bailout thing and the push to become fully electric in 10 years, my current vehicle will likely be the last one I ever own from them. Stellantis is complete trash, and I refuse to own a Ford again, after my bad experience with the only one I ever had.
As for my next car, I'm gravitating towards either Honda or Toyota, as their quality is top-notch.
I would not touch Toyota with a 10' pole. They could cover up their unintended acceleration cluster foxtrot... But looks like things were business as usual for them.
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2024, 09:39:36 PMAfter owning my 2020 Nissan Rogue, I might not own a Nissan again. I like some of its features, like the auto-stick and decent clearance, but maintenance issues have been a big concern and it has less than 100,000 miles on it.
The JATCO CVT transmissions that Nissan has had a love affair with for the past ~15 years are complete and utter junk. They have essentially ruined what Nissan may have had left of its less than sterling reputation which was already tarnished by BAE (Big Altima Energy), questionable lending practices, and Renault Nissan's former CEO being a fugitive of justice in Japan.
Quote from: kalvado on November 12, 2024, 10:00:34 PMI would not touch Toyota with a 10' pole. They could cover up their unintended acceleration cluster foxtrot... But looks like things were business as usual for them.
One could almost forgive Toyota for that blunder due to the fact that they had little to no experience with major safety recall campaigns because they have traditionally had such excellent quality, though nobody could bring back however many lives were lost or affected. At least their current gas pedal design has the lower portion attached to the floorboard so nothing goes underneath it (think of what a gas pedal on a bus might look like, only smaller).
As a Ford fan, anything GM. Chevy, Buick, GMC, Cadillac, doesn't matter.
Acura, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Bentley, Bugatti, Buick, Cadillac, Canoo, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Ferrari, Fiat, GMC, Genesis, Honda, Hummer, Hyundai, Ineos, Infiniti, Jaguar, Karma, Kia, Lamborghini, Land Rover, Lexus, Lincoln, Lotus, Lucid, Maserati, Maybach, Mazda, McLaren, Mercedes, Mini, Mitsubishi, Polestar, Porsche, Ram, Rolls-Royce, Tesla, Volkswagen, VinFast, Volvo
In my life, I have owned, or been responsible as a manager, for many dozens of cars, from all companies. One simple rule. If the car was assembled by, or the engine or transmission was made by, a plant under the control of the UAW/CAW, hard pass. Any other car, made anywhere, including the US/Canada plants of so-called "foreign" brands, are A-OK.
Quote from: SP Cook on November 13, 2024, 03:30:11 PMIn my life, I have owned, or been responsible as a manager, for many dozens of cars, from all companies. One simple rule. If the car was assembled by, or the engine or transmission was made by, a plant under the control of the UAW/CAW, hard pass. Any other car, made anywhere, including the US/Canada plants of so-called "foreign" brands, are A-OK.
Why?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 13, 2024, 02:57:37 PMAcura, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Bentley, Bugatti, Buick, Cadillac, Canoo, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Ferrari, Fiat, GMC, Genesis, Honda, Hummer, Hyundai, Ineos, Infiniti, Jaguar, Karma, Lamborghini, Land Rover, Lexus, Lincoln, Lotus, Lucid, Maserati, Maybach, Mazda, McLaren, Mercedes, Mini, Mitsubishi, Polestar, Porsche, Ram, Rolls-Royce, Tesla, Volkswagen, VinFast, Volvo
Pfft, that's just the names of all your little ducks on your dashboard.
Saying you won't buy a Lamborghini is akin to saying you won't take the subway in Aberdeen, South Dakota.
Quote from: formulanone on November 13, 2024, 07:51:07 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on November 13, 2024, 02:57:37 PMAcura, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Bentley, Bugatti, Buick, Cadillac, Canoo, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Ferrari, Fiat, GMC, Genesis, Honda, Hummer, Hyundai, Ineos, Infiniti, Jaguar, Karma, Lamborghini, Land Rover, Lexus, Lincoln, Lotus, Lucid, Maserati, Maybach, Mazda, McLaren, Mercedes, Mini, Mitsubishi, Polestar, Porsche, Ram, Rolls-Royce, Tesla, Volkswagen, VinFast, Volvo
Pfft, that's just the names of all your little ducks on your dashboard.
Saying you won't buy a Lamborghini is akin to saying you won't take the subway in Aberdeen, South Dakota.
I actually don't have a Jeep anymore. If you notice, there are other brands that aren't on that list that I'd be interested in owning, including what I currently drive, a Subaru.
Even if I had fuck you money, I'd never buy a Lambo. Rent one? Sure. Own one? Hell no.
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2024, 06:44:53 PMQuote from: SP Cook on November 13, 2024, 03:30:11 PMIn my life, I have owned, or been responsible as a manager, for many dozens of cars, from all companies. One simple rule. If the car was assembled by, or the engine or transmission was made by, a plant under the control of the UAW/CAW, hard pass. Any other car, made anywhere, including the US/Canada plants of so-called "foreign" brands, are A-OK.
Why?
In this day and age, it's not the workmanship on the assembly line that determines the quality because that generation of union rank and file membership has long since retired. Rather, it's the engineering. GM had some great quality trucks in the 00's during a period when Ford had bad engines (namely the 5.4L 3-valve-per-cylinder Triton V8). It had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the assembly line workers were represented by a union.
For the best feel on which car makes you should avoid or which ones you should consider, ask an independent mechanic. Whatever he works on frequently, probably should be avoided. Whatever he rarely touches, is probably a safe bet.
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 13, 2024, 08:55:46 PMQuote from: Rothman on November 13, 2024, 06:44:53 PMQuote from: SP Cook on November 13, 2024, 03:30:11 PMIn my life, I have owned, or been responsible as a manager, for many dozens of cars, from all companies. One simple rule. If the car was assembled by, or the engine or transmission was made by, a plant under the control of the UAW/CAW, hard pass. Any other car, made anywhere, including the US/Canada plants of so-called "foreign" brands, are A-OK.
Why?
In this day and age, it's not the workmanship on the assembly line that determines the quality because that generation of union rank and file membership has long since retired. Rather, it's the engineering. GM had some great quality trucks in the 00's during a period when Ford had bad engines (namely the 5.4L 3-valve-per-cylinder Triton V8). It had absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the assembly line workers were represented by a union.
For the best feel on which car makes you should avoid or which ones you should consider, ask an independent mechanic. Whatever he works on frequently, probably should be avoided. Whatever he rarely touches, is probably a safe bet.
https://youtu.be/B34DmsMxUlA?si=55Zljko6GZqgbaZf
What I will avoid
- GM: No chance in getting something that wants to kick out third party features (like Apple CarPlay)
- Tesla: Many fucking reasons!!!!!
- Anything Stallantis - from what I read - they fall apart quickly. I've driven a few jeeps (including a couple wranglers)
- Toyota (or Toy Yoda if you wish) - a bland brand.
I have owned Hyundai vehicles (Sonata, Elantra, Tucson) since 2008. If I chose a new vehicle anytime soon (won't because the Tuc is 1.5 years) it would be Honda (particularly the Ridgeline)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 13, 2024, 08:26:25 PMQuote from: formulanone on November 13, 2024, 07:51:07 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on November 13, 2024, 02:57:37 PMAcura, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Bentley, Bugatti, Buick, Cadillac, Canoo, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Ferrari, Fiat, GMC, Genesis, Honda, Hummer, Hyundai, Ineos, Infiniti, Jaguar, Karma, Lamborghini, Land Rover, Lexus, Lincoln, Lotus, Lucid, Maserati, Maybach, Mazda, McLaren, Mercedes, Mini, Mitsubishi, Polestar, Porsche, Ram, Rolls-Royce, Tesla, Volkswagen, VinFast, Volvo
Pfft, that's just the names of all your little ducks on your dashboard.
Saying you won't buy a Lamborghini is akin to saying you won't take the subway in Aberdeen, South Dakota.
I actually don't have a Jeep anymore. If you notice, there are other brands that aren't on that list that I'd be interested in owning, including what I currently drive, a Subaru.
Even if I had fuck you money, I'd never buy a Lambo. Rent one? Sure. Own one? Hell no.
And just to specify, the brands that I left remaining are Ford, Nissan, Rivian, Scout, Subaru, and Toyota.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 12, 2024, 07:47:47 PMAnybody who took a bailout back several years ago.
That was 16 years ago. Seems silly to hold that grudge now.
Quote from: kalvado on November 12, 2024, 10:00:34 PMI would not touch Toyota with a 10' pole. They could cover up their unintended acceleration cluster foxtrot... But looks like things were business as usual for them.
Again, that was over a decade ago.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 14, 2024, 10:29:58 AMQuote from: hbelkins on November 12, 2024, 07:47:47 PMAnybody who took a bailout back several years ago.
That was 16 years ago. Seems silly to hold that grudge now.
Quote from: kalvado on November 12, 2024, 10:00:34 PMI would not touch Toyota with a 10' pole. They could cover up their unintended acceleration cluster foxtrot... But looks like things were business as usual for them.
Again, that was over a decade ago.
It's no different than people thinking all Jeeps have transmission issues although that was largely over 10 years ago as well.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 14, 2024, 10:47:04 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on November 14, 2024, 10:29:58 AMQuote from: hbelkins on November 12, 2024, 07:47:47 PMAnybody who took a bailout back several years ago.
That was 16 years ago. Seems silly to hold that grudge now.
Quote from: kalvado on November 12, 2024, 10:00:34 PMI would not touch Toyota with a 10' pole. They could cover up their unintended acceleration cluster foxtrot... But looks like things were business as usual for them.
Again, that was over a decade ago.
It's no different than people thinking all Jeeps have transmission issues although that was largely over 10 years ago as well.
Right. That's equally silly.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 14, 2024, 10:49:31 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on November 14, 2024, 10:47:04 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on November 14, 2024, 10:29:58 AMQuote from: hbelkins on November 12, 2024, 07:47:47 PMAnybody who took a bailout back several years ago.
That was 16 years ago. Seems silly to hold that grudge now.
Quote from: kalvado on November 12, 2024, 10:00:34 PMI would not touch Toyota with a 10' pole. They could cover up their unintended acceleration cluster foxtrot... But looks like things were business as usual for them.
Again, that was over a decade ago.
It's no different than people thinking all Jeeps have transmission issues although that was largely over 10 years ago as well.
Right. That's equally silly.
It's not trivial for the people who either died or who were out thousands of dollars due to that level of negligence.
Dieselgate was almost a decade ago and I would never consider VW even fifty years from now, as I believe they should have been given some sort of death penalty in this country over it. Almost 9,000 people in this country die annually due to diesel emissions and VW made that problem worse. In reality nothing but a fine came of it.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 14, 2024, 10:29:58 AMQuote from: kalvado on November 12, 2024, 10:00:34 PMI would not touch Toyota with a 10' pole. They could cover up their unintended acceleration cluster foxtrot... But looks like things were business as usual for them.
Again, that was over a decade ago.
That was a global cluster showing total disregard to design practices. I didn't see any proof of change.
Boeing in a similar situation got turned up side down by regulator, and is on a brink of extinction as a result. For Toyota that seems business as usual.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 14, 2024, 10:16:05 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on November 13, 2024, 08:26:25 PMQuote from: formulanone on November 13, 2024, 07:51:07 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on November 13, 2024, 02:57:37 PMAcura, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Bentley, Bugatti, Buick, Cadillac, Canoo, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Ferrari, Fiat, GMC, Genesis, Honda, Hummer, Hyundai, Ineos, Infiniti, Jaguar, Karma, Lamborghini, Land Rover, Lexus, Lincoln, Lotus, Lucid, Maserati, Maybach, Mazda, McLaren, Mercedes, Mini, Mitsubishi, Polestar, Porsche, Ram, Rolls-Royce, Tesla, Volkswagen, VinFast, Volvo
Pfft, that's just the names of all your little ducks on your dashboard.
Saying you won't buy a Lamborghini is akin to saying you won't take the subway in Aberdeen, South Dakota.
I actually don't have a Jeep anymore. If you notice, there are other brands that aren't on that list that I'd be interested in owning, including what I currently drive, a Subaru.
Even if I had fuck you money, I'd never buy a Lambo. Rent one? Sure. Own one? Hell no.
And just to specify, the brands that I left remaining are Ford, Nissan, Rivian, Scout, Subaru, and Toyota.
Why Ford and Toyota, but not Lincoln and Lexus? Lack of electrics?
Quote from: Takumi on November 14, 2024, 01:40:52 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on November 14, 2024, 10:16:05 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on November 13, 2024, 08:26:25 PMQuote from: formulanone on November 13, 2024, 07:51:07 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on November 13, 2024, 02:57:37 PMAcura, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Bentley, Bugatti, Buick, Cadillac, Canoo, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Ferrari, Fiat, GMC, Genesis, Honda, Hummer, Hyundai, Ineos, Infiniti, Jaguar, Karma, Lamborghini, Land Rover, Lexus, Lincoln, Lotus, Lucid, Maserati, Maybach, Mazda, McLaren, Mercedes, Mini, Mitsubishi, Polestar, Porsche, Ram, Rolls-Royce, Tesla, Volkswagen, VinFast, Volvo
Pfft, that's just the names of all your little ducks on your dashboard.
Saying you won't buy a Lamborghini is akin to saying you won't take the subway in Aberdeen, South Dakota.
I actually don't have a Jeep anymore. If you notice, there are other brands that aren't on that list that I'd be interested in owning, including what I currently drive, a Subaru.
Even if I had fuck you money, I'd never buy a Lambo. Rent one? Sure. Own one? Hell no.
And just to specify, the brands that I left remaining are Ford, Nissan, Rivian, Scout, Subaru, and Toyota.
Why Ford and Toyota, but not Lincoln and Lexus? Lack of electrics?
If I were to buy a new car, I would likely be buying one with 4WD capability (as I miss it from selling my Jeep). Broncos, Tacomas, and 4Runners are appealing in that regard.
Re: Lincoln and Lexus, I've come to terms with the fact that I need function over fashion. They're nice cars, but would never spend the money just for "luxury" if it were less capable than other cars for less money. A slightly quieter ride and softer leather seats are not important to me at all.
Why's Canoo on the blacklist? Because they look a little silly? (They were kind of the "home team" manufacturer in Oklahoma, so I wish them well, but I didn't think that enough of them had actually been made yet for there to be any meaningful issues to become apparent, if you know of one I don't.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 14, 2024, 02:46:29 PMWhy's Canoo on the blacklist? Because they look a little silly? (They were kind of the "home team" manufacturer in Oklahoma, so I wish them well, but I didn't think that enough of them had actually been made yet for there to be any meaningful issues to become apparent, if you know of one I don't.)
Same reason. Not the kind of car I would be in the market for. I'm aware my needs are different than most here. If I felt like buying a car for just around town? Sure. But, bluntly, I wouldn't be buying a new car for those purposes. My 2012 Outback I'm driving right now does that just fine. There aren't really any features (other than Android Auto that I could fix if I put in a new head unit) that newer cars have that mine doesn't.
I work from home, outside of driving to the mountains for camping and climbing, I put maybe 5,000 miles on my car per year. I don't need anything fancy if I'm never actually in my car.
As I've said before, I hope not to be in the car market for some time yet, but I also recognize that my car is 20 years old and won't last forever. When the time comes, I will certainly consider an EV or a plug-in hybrid, though I won't go so far as to say I'd definitely buy one. On paper, my wife and I are ideal candidates for one because I telecommute and she works part-time about four or five miles from home. So when it comes to researching those vehicles, I'd assess their makers' reliability records as to those types of vehicles rather than relying solely on their gas history. I'd also examine what sort of vehicle is being sold. For example, I've had very good experiences with Honda and Acura vehicles, but the current Honda Prologue EV is a rebadged General Motors vehicle with GM-based controls that differ significantly from what Honda typically offers. I'd likely find that off-putting. But if I were to buy a gas car, I'd certainly consider what Honda offers.
I've driven two Teslas as rental cars and there are things I liked and disliked. I would not categorically rule them out, but I'm also not sure I'd buy one. One major consideration would be that apparently they have further tweaked the controls to make them even more esoteric—instead of controlling the turn signals via a stalk, I gather you now have to use steering-wheel buttons. That sounds like changing something that wasn't broken. A week or two ago when I was at the grocery store I stopped to ask a couple about their Ford Mustang EV and one thing the husband said was that the controls are more normal than Tesla's and include more physical buttons. So while as a general matter I'm not particularly interested in most Ford vehicles, that comment would certainly prompt me to check out the Mustang EV.
Beyond those comments, regardless of power source I'm pretty certain I would not consider an Alfa Romeo (too many reliability problems), a BMW (I've read too many reports of problems with the electronics), a Jaguar, or a Porsche (too expensive, including very pricey maintenance). At the present time I would not consider a VinFast either based on the horrible reviews they've gotten, but I remain open to revisiting that in the future if they improve their product (after all, the first Japanese and South Korean cars weren't all that great either and they certainly improved).
The stuff about Apple CarPlay doesn't really matter to me because none of the cars we have now has that feature, so I wouldn't miss it.
I will categorically rule Tesla out. For what it's worth, right now I'm more likely to buy an old city bus (and I have a specific one in mind) than any car.
Quote from: Rothman on November 13, 2024, 06:44:53 PMWhy?
Build quality. UAW/CAW low, all others high.
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 13, 2024, 08:55:46 PMIn this day and age, it's not the workmanship on the assembly line that determines the quality because that generation of union rank and file membership has long since retired. Rather, it's the engineering.
A good variation on the Big Lie from the (formerly) Big Three. "Yes, the cars we made 10 years ago were crap, but now, boy ...."
I'm old enough to remember that line being used for decades. 10 years ago they admitted the cars they made 20 years ago were crap, but the ones then were "different", and 10 years from now they will admit the cars of today were crap, but claim the new ones are "different".
Too old to fall for it. Understand that the UAW/CAW culture is systemically incapable of making a quality automobile. Other cultures, be they unionized as in Europe or to an extent and different way, Japan, can; rising third world places, can; or Americans and Canadians working union-free, can. UAW/CAW cannot.
Quote from: SP Cook on November 15, 2024, 08:14:38 AMUnderstand that the UAW/CAW culture is systemically incapable of making a quality automobile. Other cultures, be they unionized as in Europe or to an extent and different way, Japan, can; rising third world places, can; or Americans and Canadians working union-free, can. UAW/CAW cannot.
Maybe the cars are of lesser quality, but at least the workers don't work themselves to death. Incompetent workers should not be protected by the union, though.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 14, 2024, 06:22:08 PMI will categorically rule Tesla out. For what it's worth, right now I'm more likely to buy an old city bus (and I have a specific one in mind) than any car.
Okay, that sounds cool.
More on topic, I'm firmly against Tesla and I will never, ever,
ever buy a Tesla vehicle. My intense dislike for Elon Musk is only part of the reason - they're ugly, expensive, and dangerous, and there are recalls all the time. (Of course, because of certain recent political developments, I imagine the recalls will stop...but the problems will persist.) The lack of EV charging infrastructure is another big strike against them for me.
For brands I have no interest in for reasons other than irrational blind rage, I won't buy a Ford. Every Ford (or related brand such as Mercury) I've ever driven has had major problems.
Although I like Hyundai and Kia - my wife has had an Elantra and a Soul - and their cars are pretty good quality and easy to drive, I can't see myself getting one because they're almost impossible to service yourself. The cars seem deliberately designed so that you basically have to take them to the dealership for service, plus parts are extremely expensive.
I actually don't mind Toyota being relatively bland compared to other companies. Their cars aren't really anything special, but they're very reliable and actually quite easy to service yourself if you need to. I have a 2007 Camry that's about to hit 200,000 miles. It had some major issues last year but I was able to do a lot of the repairs myself - including nearly completely disassembling and reassembling the engine - and it's now fully drivable again. It's even better after I took it in for those few things I wasn't able to fix myself. If my current Camry ever craps out I might very well get another one.
I don't mind if things aren't "easy" to work on myself for most things, but things like battery replacement and light bulb replacement being a PITA is asinine. My headlight went out on my Outback and I ordered some bulbs from Amazon and then realized I literally had to pull off body paneling to change it. That's madness.
I tried to help a friend change her battery on her VW Golf back in the day, and realized it was buried somewhere under the engine.
I think the admin clerk rolling up one day at work in a Model Y with the plate "NVMYY" was the moment that sold me on Tesla being a douche bag brand.
I rented a Tesla, and I enjoyed driving it, but unless I had a charger at home, I would never own one. Even then probably not. Needing to sit for 40 minutes to charge when on a roadtrip isn't reasonable.
Even worse is I just rented a Kia Niro this past weekend in KC. I needed to charge it, found the closest Tesla superchargers and then realized that plug didn't fit it. So then I found out that there were other chargers at the other end of the parking lot I was in. Plugged that in and realized it was only AC and was going to take 9 hours. So then I had to go to another place where they had DC charging. It took me three different apps to find the charger that would actually work. That 100% made it so I won't rent an EV ever again.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 15, 2024, 10:19:00 AMI don't mind if things aren't "easy" to work on myself for most things
Considering I'm in the market for an articulated bus, I think it's obvious I don't care either.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 15, 2024, 10:30:43 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on November 15, 2024, 10:19:00 AMI don't mind if things aren't "easy" to work on myself for most things
Considering I'm in the market for an articulated bus, I think it's obvious I don't care either.
Well, I think you'll run into your own challenges with that. I doubt your average auto shop is going to sign up to work on those.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on November 15, 2024, 09:51:50 AM....
More on topic, I'm firmly against Tesla and I will never, ever, ever buy a Tesla vehicle. My intense dislike for Elon Musk is only part of the reason - they're ugly, expensive, and dangerous, and there are recalls all the time. (Of course, because of certain recent political developments, I imagine the recalls will stop...but the problems will persist.) The lack of EV charging infrastructure is another big strike against them for me.
....
The boldfaced is the part of your comment I find interesting because I would think that if you were to consider any EV at all, access to charging would suggest Tesla as the brand with the most-developed charging infrastructure (although it's fair to recognize that other automakers are now gaining access to the Supercharger network). Last January when we visited relatives in Broward County, my wife was interested in renting a Polestar (Volvo EV), but I couldn't find a reliable listing of compatible charging stations in the area, whereas we knew where the nearest two Superchargers were. So we rented a Tesla instead. The current situation where other automakers are supposed to be gaining access to the Supercharger network, but may not yet actually have access, would be another issue giving me pause if I were exploring an EV purchase. I'd want to make sure whatever I bought
did have such access at the time of purchase.
I have been pleased with my Subarus, with a combined 800,000+ miles over three Outback models. After 250,000 miles, I had to replace a water pump on my 2011 Outback. I am now with a 2022 Outback Wilderness and have had to replace one ABS sensor at ~40,000 miles and an axle boot at ~60,000 miles after I did some rugged off-roading.
Its winter and mud/dirt capabilities have been exceptional, within reason. I have never been stuck in the snow or bogged down while going off-road in Appalachia. It's no Jeep or 4Runner, but it handles just fine within its capabilities.
The only downside is the giant touchscreen that many functions route into. I love having a large touch screen as it makes it easy to pull up my maps while off-roading (Gaia GPS, Apple, Google, etc.), but controlling my off-road functions and most HVAC functions through it can be tedious and slow. Add back some buttons, please!
I am considering the just-teased 2026 Honda Pilot Trailsport (https://www.cars.com/articles/all-new-2026-honda-passport-revealed-larger-more-capable-less-frumpy-492046/), which builds upon the Wilderness' capability and adds some nice features—like vertical wheel storage, Molle attachment points, and a better touchscreen. I have also considered the new Toyota 4Runner or Land Cruiser, although I am not going off-road or overlapping nearly as much as I did when I lived in Appalachia.
But I am not considering a Jeep—any Jeep. Far too many people I know have had continuous reliability issues in everyday driving. Two friends have been stranded with broken drivetrain components, and dealing with Stellantis' dealers can be a nightmare. It's uncomfortable to drive, and as a passenger, I can get oddly car-sick—something that doesn't happen in other higher-profile vehicles.
Jeeps are also overpriced. There is a reason why Stellantis' vehicles are no longer selling well and why they are now drastically reducing prices on many models. They are piling up on lots, and there are work slowdowns or stoppage orders at plants with layoffs occurring. People now have better, more reliable models, so why go with Jeep?
I wouldn't consider a Ford, either. There are too many recalls and too many quality issues (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjFrofc196JAxXeGTQIHTU2KIwQFnoECEQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nada.org%2Fnada%2Fnada-headlines%2Fford-sacrifices-short-term-profits-fix-its-costly-recall-problem-bloomberg&usg=AOvVaw3T_ret7bYLcENWXNCab9cQ&opi=89978449) that have to be corrected after a vehicle leaves a plant. I know too many off-roaders with Broncos and Bronco Sport have had to take their cars in multiple times for warranty fixes.
No car is perfect, and no brand is infallible. The newest Toyota Tundras and Tacomas have had reliability issues after redesigns and have become very expensive compared to previous model years.
But this video sums up my thoughts:
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 15, 2024, 10:32:21 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on November 15, 2024, 10:30:43 AMQuote from: JayhawkCO on November 15, 2024, 10:19:00 AMI don't mind if things aren't "easy" to work on myself for most things
Considering I'm in the market for an articulated bus, I think it's obvious I don't care either.
Well, I think you'll run into your own challenges with that. I doubt your average auto shop is going to sign up to work on those.
The plan is probably just to preserve it as an early example of Nova Bus LFS Artic, so it isn't as much maintenance as having it as an unusual daily driver.
The length of time it takes to charge an EV is the biggest reason I wouldn't want one. Anything longer than the time it takes to fill the tank with gas, take a leak, and maybe grab a snack or a drink, is wasted time that could be spent on the road.
Didn't Hyundai and Kia get their theft issues figured out?
I've owned a Toyota (a 2000 Tacoma 4WD truck) and liked it very much. "Boring" is not really something I'm worried about in terms of owning or driving a vehicle, especially as I've gotten older.
I'm about to come into possession of a 2011 Chevy Impala. It belonged to my brother's recently-deceased father-in-law, and he's got a veritable used car lot in his yard, so he offered the vehicle to me. It only has about 110K miles on it, he said it runs and drives great, and will no doubt get better mileage than the 17 mpg my 1990 Chevy pickup with the 5.7-liter engine does.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 15, 2024, 03:48:25 PMThe length of time it takes to charge an EV is the biggest reason I wouldn't want one. Anything longer than the time it takes to fill the tank with gas, take a leak, and maybe grab a snack or a drink, is wasted time that could be spent on the road.
Didn't Hyundai and Kia get their theft issues figured out?
I've owned a Toyota (a 2000 Tacoma 4WD truck) and liked it very much. "Boring" is not really something I'm worried about in terms of owning or driving a vehicle, especially as I've gotten older.
I'm about to come into possession of a 2011 Chevy Impala. It belonged to my brother's recently-deceased father-in-law, and he's got a veritable used car lot in his yard, so he offered the vehicle to me. It only has about 110K miles on it, he said it runs and drives great, and will no doubt get better mileage than the 17 mpg my 1990 Chevy pickup with the 5.7-liter engine does.
Yeah, Hyundai and Kia sorted out the theft issues, though vehicles that didn't get the fix are occasionally still stolen. I'm not entirely concerned about that, though, my beef is mainly with how difficult it is and how much it costs to maintain those vehicles.
Well, obviously:
(https://imgur.com/W73k9qt.jpg)
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on November 15, 2024, 04:07:53 PMQuote from: hbelkins on November 15, 2024, 03:48:25 PMThe length of time it takes to charge an EV is the biggest reason I wouldn't want one. Anything longer than the time it takes to fill the tank with gas, take a leak, and maybe grab a snack or a drink, is wasted time that could be spent on the road.
Didn't Hyundai and Kia get their theft issues figured out?
I've owned a Toyota (a 2000 Tacoma 4WD truck) and liked it very much. "Boring" is not really something I'm worried about in terms of owning or driving a vehicle, especially as I've gotten older.
I'm about to come into possession of a 2011 Chevy Impala. It belonged to my brother's recently-deceased father-in-law, and he's got a veritable used car lot in his yard, so he offered the vehicle to me. It only has about 110K miles on it, he said it runs and drives great, and will no doubt get better mileage than the 17 mpg my 1990 Chevy pickup with the 5.7-liter engine does.
Yeah, Hyundai and Kia sorted out the theft issues, though vehicles that didn't get the fix are occasionally still stolen. I'm not entirely concerned about that, though, my beef is mainly with how difficult it is and how much it costs to maintain those vehicles.
Not to mention that people still attempt to steal them, and the fixes that prevent them from getting stolen won't stop windows from getting smashed or other damage from the attempt to steal. Rochester, NY had a huge problem with it, to the point where Kia and Hyundai vehicles around the area that weren't parked in a garage were practically guaranteed to get damaged and have to spend weeks/months in a shop (due to parts backlogs) if left parked for long enough (vehicles weren't even safe in reasonably trafficked areas during the day in the suburbs - my cousin has a story about a patient who ran out of the place she works in to confront car thieves he spotted trying to steal his car!). As far as I'm aware, the "Kia Boyz" are still out there, though I haven't heard as many reports in the last couple months, so let's hope people are finally figuring out that this isn't worth it any more (although it's also possible that r/Rochester decided to clamp down on complaints of car theft attempts).
Quote from: hbelkins on November 15, 2024, 03:48:25 PMThe length of time it takes to charge an EV is the biggest reason I wouldn't want one. Anything longer than the time it takes to fill the tank with gas, take a leak, and maybe grab a snack or a drink, is wasted time that could be spent on the road.
On the other hand, with an EV, you won't have to spend time every 300 miles to stop and get gas. For most people, they get home, plug it in, then unplug it next time they go out. Overall, you save time throughout the life of the car.
Right, but how many of us on this forum are into that "stay and never do anything" lifestyle? I'm sure an EV would be great if I worked close to home and never traveled anywhere by car.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 15, 2024, 11:08:38 PMRight, but how many of us on this forum are into that "stay and never do anything" lifestyle? I'm sure an EV would be great if I worked close to home and never traveled anywhere by car.
Don't even need to work close to home. My 82 mile round trip commute wouldn't be an issue. A 200 mile trip from my home to Baltimore or NYC and back wouldn't be an issue. If someone takes a lot of weekend trips, or has a job that allows them to travel frequently, the majority of people aren't getting out all that much. And of those that do, they rent a car, they fly, or they have a 2nd car available.
This is really no different than someone that owns a pickup truck without a 2nd row, yet has a family of 4. The truck is fine for work or hauling stuff. They probably have a 2nd vehicle for more family-type trips. But I don't see anyone writing off pickup trucks because they can't do everything all the time.
My opinion about EVs is that the technology is nowhere near close to ready. Maybe in 20 years, but right now I don't think it's worth it.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 15, 2024, 11:08:38 PMRight, but how many of us on this forum are into that "stay and never do anything" lifestyle? I'm sure an EV would be great if I worked close to home and never traveled anywhere by car.
One reason I'm willing to consider one for my next car is that my wife and I currently have three cars, so if we replace one there would always be the option of using one of the other two for longer trips. Interesting thing, though, was that last January when we stopped right near the southern end of the Homestead Extension to charge before heading to the Keys, it didn't feel like all that long of a stop, maybe 15 or 20 minutes. Prior to stopping, I thought I would find it more tedious than I did.
^^^
Right now I'm maxed out with four vehicles. We'll see how the EV market progresses come the 2032-2033 models years when I'm likely next going to need a daily driver. I have my doubts the entry level end of that vehicle market will be ready with a compromise free offering.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2024, 11:24:44 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on November 15, 2024, 11:08:38 PMRight, but how many of us on this forum are into that "stay and never do anything" lifestyle? I'm sure an EV would be great if I worked close to home and never traveled anywhere by car.
Don't even need to work close to home. My 82 mile round trip commute wouldn't be an issue. A 200 mile trip from my home to Baltimore or NYC and back wouldn't be an issue. If someone takes a lot of weekend trips, or has a job that allows them to travel frequently, the majority of people aren't getting out all that much. And of those that do, they rent a car, they fly, or they have a 2nd car available.
This is really no different than someone that owns a pickup truck without a 2nd row, yet has a family of 4. The truck is fine for work or hauling stuff. They probably have a 2nd vehicle for more family-type trips. But I don't see anyone writing off pickup trucks because they can't do everything all the time.
It would be a significant issue for me right now at my 72 mile round trip commute. Currently I don't have any fast charging capability infrastructure at my home. That being the case I would need an EV that could reliably get 350-400 miles range in mostly highway speed driving. Yes such EV models exist, but none are close to being competitive with the 25k MSRP I just bought a Corolla Hybrid for.
I should note, I spent 26k on a new HVAC system this past summer. That being the case any large scale infrastructure like a fast charging system or solar panels just isn't going to be a priority for a couple years. I'm currently budgeting for replacing the fence next year.
Although I technically own two cars currently, one's with my son and it's on its last legs. I do not intend to replace it (he'll buy his first car).
Given the cost of insurance, maintenance and gas, getting a second car is hard for my wife and I to justify. We both walk to work. The only situation that concerns us is when one of us travels while leaving the other at home, but, although short-term inconvenient, renting a car for such sporadic cases (half-a-dozen a year at most) is cheaper overall.
An EV is just illogical for us. The inconvenient charge time is just a killer for us, since we live in a multi-family unit. As soon as the EV's charge time drops to five minutes for a true 350 mile range, I'll definitely consider it.
And as I've said in here before, turn araund time on recharging/refueling is one of the main reasons why straight battery-electric failed in the market over a century ago, in the earliest days of automobility.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on November 16, 2024, 10:49:33 AMAnd as I've said in here before, turn araund time on recharging/refueling is one of the main reasons why straight battery-electric failed in the market over a century ago, in the earliest days of automobility.
Mike
Then again, most houses didn't have electricity in the early 1920s either. Around 35% of housing had electricity in 1920. By 1930, that increased to about 70%. Kinda hard to have an EV when most people century ago didn't have E or a V to begin with.
Should we talk about paved roads during that era also?
Don't forget hat the initial push in the 'good roads' movement was from bicyclists. Over a century ago, straight battery-electric cars had a very small 'niche' market, but never began to approach the level of being a practical transportation option.
Mike
I hate mini-coopers. Not for their look, it's the way people drive them, cutting people off, etc. Told my fiancee that when we started dating and her car had gotten totaled getting hit by one. We drove from Texas to Utah (through NM & AZ) and we got to Moab I commented about not seeing one mini-cooper on the trip. Of course we went to Arches NP and ran into a mini-cooper road trip and had to see 100s.
Quote from: SectorZ on November 12, 2024, 07:32:46 PMQuote from: Takumi on November 12, 2024, 06:56:30 PMThe Mazda 3 is on my list of potential buys though.
You get a recommend from me at least. Love my 2016. Not sure how the current (2019-2025) generation is compared to mine, but I've had 8 years/98K miles of trouble free existence with it. Love the gas mileage and the back roads handling of it. I can even cram my road bicycle in whole with the seat down with the hatchback.
ZLoth- I am almost entirely with you on your five. Even if I had unlimited money I wouldn't buy any car that involves too much money to maintain just because of the pain involved.
I liked mine but when the ex wanted something different I took her hand me down and gave up my 3. Though I wasn't heartbroken as the car ate tires like no other car. I got a new set and then Discount told me I needed a new set and I was only at 17000 miles. I said good you have a 40000 miles warranty and they didn't honor it. Never gone back there since.
What kind of tires were they? If they were lasting only 17,000 miles the tread wear was probably in the 200s. Sounds like they were trying to sell you performance tires when all-weather is what you needed.
Quote from: texaskdog on November 16, 2024, 01:47:22 PMI hate mini-coopers. Not for their look, it's the way people drive them, cutting people off, etc. Told my fiancee that when we started dating and her car had gotten totaled getting hit by one. We drove from Texas to Utah (through NM & AZ) and we got to Moab I commented about not seeing one mini-cooper on the trip. Of course we went to Arches NP and ran into a mini-cooper road trip and had to see 100s.
Ms1995hoo test-drove a Mini Cooper before buying an Acura RSX instead. The Mini was a fun little car, but the two biggest things she decided were off-putting were that my head was right up against the ceiling and the glass roof did not have an opaque shade, such that the AC was struggling to keep the car cool on a Saturday in early May. That made us wonder what it would be like in the middle of summer.
Quote from: mgk920 on November 16, 2024, 01:02:11 PMDon't forget hat the initial push in the 'good roads' movement was from bicyclists. Over a century ago, straight battery-electric cars had a very small 'niche' market, but never began to approach the level of being a practical transportation option.
Mike
I have no idea why the status of electric vehicles 100 years ago would be in any way comparable to the newer technology available today.
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2024, 05:18:33 PMQuote from: mgk920 on November 16, 2024, 01:02:11 PMDon't forget hat the initial push in the 'good roads' movement was from bicyclists. Over a century ago, straight battery-electric cars had a very small 'niche' market, but never began to approach the level of being a practical transportation option.
Mike
I have no idea why the status of electric vehicles 100 years ago would be in any way comparable to the newer technology available today.
Much to my chagrin nobody wants to talk about steam powered cars. A modern hybrid Stanley Steamer is weird retro future tech I can get behind.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 16, 2024, 05:24:56 PMQuote from: Rothman on November 16, 2024, 05:18:33 PMQuote from: mgk920 on November 16, 2024, 01:02:11 PMDon't forget hat the initial push in the 'good roads' movement was from bicyclists. Over a century ago, straight battery-electric cars had a very small 'niche' market, but never began to approach the level of being a practical transportation option.
Mike
I have no idea why the status of electric vehicles 100 years ago would be in any way comparable to the newer technology available today.
Much to my chagrin nobody wants to talk about steam powered cars. A modern hybrid Stanley Steamer is weird retro future tech I can get behind.
Ah, the old fun myth that the government has the technology for water-powered cars but has suppressed their production... :D
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 16, 2024, 05:24:56 PMQuote from: Rothman on November 16, 2024, 05:18:33 PMQuote from: mgk920 on November 16, 2024, 01:02:11 PMDon't forget hat the initial push in the 'good roads' movement was from bicyclists. Over a century ago, straight battery-electric cars had a very small 'niche' market, but never began to approach the level of being a practical transportation option.
Mike
I have no idea why the status of electric vehicles 100 years ago would be in any way comparable to the newer technology available today.
Much to my chagrin nobody wants to talk about steam powered cars. A modern hybrid Stanley Steamer is weird retro future tech I can get behind.
It gets your home cleaner.
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2024, 05:58:53 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on November 16, 2024, 05:24:56 PMQuote from: Rothman on November 16, 2024, 05:18:33 PMQuote from: mgk920 on November 16, 2024, 01:02:11 PMDon't forget hat the initial push in the 'good roads' movement was from bicyclists. Over a century ago, straight battery-electric cars had a very small 'niche' market, but never began to approach the level of being a practical transportation option.
Mike
I have no idea why the status of electric vehicles 100 years ago would be in any way comparable to the newer technology available today.
Much to my chagrin nobody wants to talk about steam powered cars. A modern hybrid Stanley Steamer is weird retro future tech I can get behind.
Ah, the old fun myth that the government has the technology for water-powered cars but has suppressed their production... :D
So there's this car that runs on water, man... (https://youtu.be/2rV3VgUlq8A)
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2024, 05:58:53 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on November 16, 2024, 05:24:56 PMQuote from: Rothman on November 16, 2024, 05:18:33 PMQuote from: mgk920 on November 16, 2024, 01:02:11 PMDon't forget hat the initial push in the 'good roads' movement was from bicyclists. Over a century ago, straight battery-electric cars had a very small 'niche' market, but never began to approach the level of being a practical transportation option.
Mike
I have no idea why the status of electric vehicles 100 years ago would be in any way comparable to the newer technology available today.
Much to my chagrin nobody wants to talk about steam powered cars. A modern hybrid Stanley Steamer is weird retro future tech I can get behind.
Ah, the old fun myth that the government has the technology for water-powered cars but has suppressed their production... :D
Well, four wheels and an IC engine is much older tech than that. :-p~
(Now, back to our scheduled discussions of why some car brands are so much worse than others.)
Mike
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2024, 05:58:53 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on November 16, 2024, 05:24:56 PMQuote from: Rothman on November 16, 2024, 05:18:33 PMQuote from: mgk920 on November 16, 2024, 01:02:11 PMDon't forget hat the initial push in the 'good roads' movement was from bicyclists. Over a century ago, straight battery-electric cars had a very small 'niche' market, but never began to approach the level of being a practical transportation option.
Mike
I have no idea why the status of electric vehicles 100 years ago would be in any way comparable to the newer technology available today.
Much to my chagrin nobody wants to talk about steam powered cars. A modern hybrid Stanley Steamer is weird retro future tech I can get behind.
Ah, the old fun myth that the government has the technology for water-powered cars but has suppressed their production... :D
Not much has suppressed it. We'd have to drive much larger vehicles than the porkiest of SUVs. Think full-size school busses, as we'd need 500+ gallons of water instead of 12-29 gallon gas tanks to supply the same unit of energy to provide combustion and engine motivation. In turn, larger and wider roads...