Poll
Question:
What is the most isolated major city/metro area in the 48 contiguous US states?
Option 1: Spokane, WA
votes: 0
Option 2: Boise, ID
votes: 13
Option 3: Salt Lake City, UT
votes: 5
Option 4: Denver, CO
votes: 2
Option 5: Albuquerque, NM
votes: 3
Option 6: El Paso, TX
votes: 10
Option 7: Other (specify below)
votes: 8
I got to thinking post-Thanksgiving how some cities/metro areas are highly accessible and drivable from a lot of the country while others require going well out of the way from just about anywhere.
What do you think is the most isolated major city in the contiguous 48 US states, considering factors like interstate access and proximity and accessibility to other major cities - both regionally and in other parts of the country?
For this exercise, I'm defining a major city as at least 500k metro population. I've listed what I think are the most logical candidates in the poll, but I'm open to other options, so if your answer isn't listed, please feel free to share your thoughts!
I came into this thinking it would be Boise, but after some deliberation El Paso gets my vote.
Brownsville TX
El Paso is the most isolated major city. Denver is the most isolated major, major city.
Bend OR has a metro population of 247,000. Yet, it has no Interstate access and is only served by US 97 and US 20. It is one of the biggest metro areas in the US to have no Interstates going through the metro, and it is surrounded by the Cascades to the west and harsh high desert to the north, east, and south. US 97 is almost a full freeway through Bend though.
NYC is the most isolated largest city.
I think Boise is pretty isolated. It's 339 miles from Salt Lake City, 430 miles from Portland and 504 miles from Seattle.
Denver isn't very isolated. Colorado Springs and Pueblo are to the South. Cheyenne is to the North and there is a lot of development along the I-25 corridor next to the Front Range.
El Paso seems somewhat isolated. It's 266 miles from Albuquerque and 320 miles from Tucson. Those are the nearest big cities. Although Las Cruces has grown a good bit.
Las Vegas isn't on there but you would think it would be pretty high up there.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 10, 2024, 12:04:19 AMLas Vegas isn't on there but you would think it would be pretty high up there.
Barstow, Pahrump, Mesquite, Kingman, Bullhead City, Boulder City and St. George are all close enough to blunt the isolated feel.
Salt Lake City doesn't feel isolated because it's in the middle of a chain of urban and suburban areas stretching for over a hundred miles. A while back, I drove US-89 from Spanish Fork to Logan, and it sure felt like one interminable suburb.
You can't really call El Paso "isolated" unless you ignore the much bigger city right across the river.
I don't think Spokane quite meets your 500K metro population standards. Boise does, and so does Denver, but I think Denver has more interesting places nearby that it's easy to live there without dying of boredom. Boise's less interesting, so I'd feel more isolated there than in Denver. So I vote Boise.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 10, 2024, 12:10:59 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on December 10, 2024, 12:04:19 AMLas Vegas isn't on there but you would think it would be pretty high up there.
Barstow, Pahrump, Mesquite, Kingman, Bullhead City, Boulder City and St. George are all close enough to blunt the isolated feel.
Well for El Paso Las Cruces is bigger than all of those places and is nearby.
Quote from: pderocco on December 10, 2024, 12:11:25 AMYou can't really call El Paso "isolated" unless you ignore the much bigger city right across the river.
I thought about mentioning that myself, but there's nothing past Ciudad Juárez, so the pair of cities as a unit is still isolated.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 10, 2024, 12:14:17 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 10, 2024, 12:10:59 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on December 10, 2024, 12:04:19 AMLas Vegas isn't on there but you would think it would be pretty high up there.
Barstow, Pahrump, Mesquite, Kingman, Bullhead City, Boulder City and St. George are all close enough to blunt the isolated feel.
Well for El Paso Las Cruces is bigger than all of those places and is nearby.
There isn't really much of a gap between the two areas. Alamogordo and Tularosa Basin aren't exactly devoid of people.
Boise for me.
Quote from: hotdogPi on December 10, 2024, 12:14:54 AMQuote from: pderocco on December 10, 2024, 12:11:25 AMYou can't really call El Paso "isolated" unless you ignore the much bigger city right across the river.
I thought about mentioning that myself, but there's nothing past Ciudad Juárez, so the pair of cities as a unit is still isolated.
Similar to Laredo TX and Nuevo Laredo, Mexico. Combined metro area over 500K. Fairly distant from San Antonio and Monterrey, and the communities of the Rio Grande Valley.
I'd say Las Vegas. Nevada has the distinction of being the only continental US state without a freeway connecting its two largest metro areas and Vegas and Phoenix are the biggest city pair not connected by an interstate, although Interstate 11 is planned to change that.
Anchorage, AK
I voted for El Paso, simply because I've been there and it doesn't feel like it's close to anything. If you go to Carlsbad Caverns from El Paso, you have to remember to fuel up before you leave town.
I do have to wonder about Honolulu, though.
Contiguous is a vague term.
Quote from: Rothman on December 10, 2024, 07:49:02 AMContiguous is a vague term.
Ahem.
(https://imgur.com/v19ptKj.jpg)
Quote from: hotdogPi on December 10, 2024, 12:14:54 AMQuoteYou can't really call El Paso "isolated" unless you ignore the much bigger city right across the river.
I thought about mentioning that myself, but there's nothing past Ciudad Juárez, so the pair of cities as a unit is still isolated.
Right: if you're considering both, then it's one metro, and it's very isolated in both countries. If you're considering the US only, El Paso is very isolated within the US.
Quote from: pderocco on December 10, 2024, 12:11:25 AMI don't think Spokane quite meets your 500K metro population standards.
It's surprisingly around 600k, according to recent estimates.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 09, 2024, 11:19:53 PMDenver isn't very isolated. Colorado Springs and Pueblo are to the South. Cheyenne is to the North and there is a lot of development along the I-25 corridor next to the Front Range.
I somehow didn't realize Colorado Springs was well over 500k (metro) on its own, or I probably wouldn't have even put Denver on the list.
Quote from: webny99 on December 10, 2024, 07:55:54 AMQuote from: Rothman on December 10, 2024, 07:49:02 AMContiguous is a vague term.
Ahem.
(https://imgur.com/v19ptKj.jpg)
https://media4.giphy.com/media/jXD7kFLwudbBC/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952d7nwonqw34138rlw9u3ellb0yiha4d8owenkopmb&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
Cheyenne, Wyoming has to be up there for most isolated US city in the United States within the mainland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne,_Wyoming
Yes there's the entire population of Wyoming can fit inside of cities like Sacramento, and Fresno.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresno,_California
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento,_California
Quote from: bing101 on December 10, 2024, 10:47:19 AMCheyenne, Wyoming has to be up there for most isolated US city in the United States within the mainland.
Cheyenne is too close to Fort Collins and the cities in that area.
Quote from: Rothman on December 09, 2024, 10:40:11 PMNYC is the most isolated largest city.
I'm not sure why you're saying this. While accurate, nobody earlier in the thread tried to combine superlatives in this way, so it seems irrelevant.
I think the NYC mention was a joke. The cluster of DC, Baltimore, Philadephia, NYC and all the miscellaneous other cities leading up to Boston amounts to the most NOT-isolated region of the 48 states.
Quote from: kernals12I'd say Las Vegas.
Las Vegas is 254 miles from Phoenix and 227 miles from San Bernadino (technically part of the LA megapolis). The Victorville area North of Cajon Pass has a modest cluster of small cities. Boise is a farther distance than that away from the nearest major population centers.
Quote from: QuillzAnchorage, AK
The poll said the mainland 48 states. Otherwise someone could say Honolulu.
Quote from: webny99 on December 10, 2024, 08:03:14 AMQuote from: Bobby5280 on December 09, 2024, 11:19:53 PMDenver isn't very isolated. Colorado Springs and Pueblo are to the South. Cheyenne is to the North and there is a lot of development along the I-25 corridor next to the Front Range.
I somehow didn't realize Colorado Springs was well over 500k (metro) on its own, or I probably wouldn't have even put Denver on the list.
If you include metro areas over 2 million though, Denver is the clear winner. It also could be argued that the entire Front Range is a CSA.
I would agree on Denver. There is not much anywhere around it.
Mike
Quote from: hotdogPi on December 10, 2024, 10:54:50 AMQuote from: bing101 on December 10, 2024, 10:47:19 AMCheyenne, Wyoming has to be up there for most isolated US city in the United States within the mainland.
Cheyenne is too close to Fort Collins and the cities in that area.
Billings and Fargo are also twice the size of Cheyenne and arguably more isolated.
I won't have time today, but it would be slightly more interesting maybe to do "most isolated" by population level.
50k+
100k+
250k+
500k+
1m+
2m+
I agree with the OP's narrowing this poll to places in the contiguous 48 USA states, many consider Honolulu to be the most remote major city in the World.
Mike
I'm going with New Orleans.
Quote from: mgk920 on December 10, 2024, 11:29:38 AMI agree with the OP's narrowing this poll to places in the contiguous 48 USA states, many consider Honolulu to be the most remote major city in the World.
Mike
Well if it was the 50 states that would be the obvious answer. When I was thinking of one before I went with New Orleans I was thinking Honolulu but then was like not in the lower 48 so it wouldn't count, then I thought New Orleans, a city the French built between a big lake and a big river that floods all the time with not much around it. The lake makes you feel isolated, the vast swamps going east, west and south make you feel isolated. No locals are going to be walking along Bourbon Street or anything but I had some fun when I was there but could never live there I'd be bored to death and i don't think I'd like living in Louisiana in the first place.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 10, 2024, 12:34:04 PMI'm going with New Orleans.
That was my thought as well.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 10, 2024, 11:14:09 AMI won't have time today, but it would be slightly more interesting maybe to do "most isolated" by population level.
50k+
100k+
250k+
500k+
1m+
2m+
Off metro population
50k: Great Falls
100k: Missoula
200k: Lubbock
500k: Boise
1m: Salt Lake City
2m: Denver
5m: Phoenix
Without thinking about relative size or transportation efficiency, my gut reaction to the thread title was Salt Lake City.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billings,_Montana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fargo,_North_Dakota
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismarck,_North_Dakota
Ok here's the others on this list one can consider as most isolated cities in the Mainland United States.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 10, 2024, 01:21:12 PMQuoteI'm going with New Orleans.
That was my thought as well.
If it wasn't for I-10, I-55, the Pontchartrain Causeway, and Baton Rouge, I could see the case for it.
Quote from: webny99 on December 09, 2024, 10:07:52 PMI got to thinking post-Thanksgiving how some cities/metro areas are highly accessible and drivable from a lot of the country while others require going well out of the way from just about anywhere.
Instead of "City", I would include the term "Metropolitan Area". There are many places which call themselves "cities", but are part of a bigger area.
Having said that, I would first look at cities in the mountain time zone as that is the least populated of the four time zones. With that, I'm going to go with Billings, Montana with a 2020 population of 117,116. If you look at the flight from Billings (https://www.flightsfrom.com/explorer/BIL?mapview), it serves five Montana locations, plus Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake City, Phoenix/Mesa, Denver, Dallas, Chicago, and Minneapolis. As far as I know, Denver, Seattle, Dallas, and Chicago are hub airports, while Las Vegas is a non-hub but major destination where you could catch a connecting flight and lose money at the slots without leaving the airport.
Quote from: thspfc on December 10, 2024, 01:25:27 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on December 10, 2024, 11:14:09 AMI won't have time today, but it would be slightly more interesting maybe to do "most isolated" by population level.
50k+
100k+
250k+
500k+
1m+
2m+
Off metro population
50k: Great Falls
100k: Missoula
200k: Lubbock
500k: Boise
1m: Salt Lake City
2m: Denver
5m: Phoenix
Without thinking about relative size or transportation efficiency, my gut reaction to the thread title was Salt Lake City.
Had more time than I thought today. So, another way to look at this is how far you need to drive to get to another metro area that's bigger than the one you're in. So, I broke those down into population groups:
100k-250kBillings - 497 miles to Fort Collins
Grand Junction - 243 miles to Denver
Bismarck - 195 miles to Fargo
Farmington - 183 miles to Albuquerque
Yuma - 172 miles to San Diego
250k-500kLubbock - 322 miles to Albuquerque
Fargo - 235 miles to Minneapolis
Sioux Falls - 181 miles to Omaha
Laredo - 157 miles to San Antonio
Tri-Cities - 135 miles to Spokane
500k-1mAlbuquerque - 419 miles to Phoenix
New Orleans - 348 miles to Houston
Boise - 334 miles to Salt Lake City
Spokane - 279 miles to Seattle
El Paso - 266 miles to Albuquerque
1m-3mDenver - 794 miles to Dallas
Salt Lake City - 421 miles to Las Vegas
Saint Louis - 297 miles to Chicago
Charlotte - 243 miles to Atlanta
Pittsburgh - 241 miles to Washington
I excluded crossing borders for this exercise, mostly only applicable to El Paso and Laredo.
(I thiiiink these are all accurate as I excluded looking at states where I assumed the correct answer wouldn't come from. I'm a little dubious on my 250k-500k numbers, but I'll look again tomorrow.)
Denver metro is about 580 miles from Kansas City metro, so slightly less isolated than when measuring towards the Metroplex. (SLC metro area is a bit over 1.2 million and is about 510 west of Denver)
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 10, 2024, 12:10:59 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on December 10, 2024, 12:04:19 AMLas Vegas isn't on there but you would think it would be pretty high up there.
Barstow, Pahrump, Mesquite, Kingman, Bullhead City, Boulder City and St. George are all close enough to blunt the isolated feel.
I don't know about that. Boulder City, sure. But there is a whole lot of nothing between there and both Kingman and Laughlin/Bullhead. Pahrump is far enough away, and requires summitting a mountain pass, that it doesn't really feel all that connected to Las Vegas.
I haven't done this myself, but I've heard that if you go to the top of the Strat after dark you can really tell how isolated Las Vegas really is. The whole valley is lit up, and then beyond that, pitch black in every direction for miles. Night satellite images (like this from https://www.nightearth.com/) also kind of show this:
(https://i.imgur.com/XvYZSAi.png)
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 10, 2024, 06:01:17 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 10, 2024, 12:10:59 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on December 10, 2024, 12:04:19 AMLas Vegas isn't on there but you would think it would be pretty high up there.
Barstow, Pahrump, Mesquite, Kingman, Bullhead City, Boulder City and St. George are all close enough to blunt the isolated feel.
I don't know about that. Boulder City, sure. But there is a whole lot of nothing between there and both Kingman and Laughlin/Bullhead. Pahrump is far enough away, and requires summitting a mountain pass, that it doesn't really feel all that connected to Las Vegas.
I haven't done this myself, but I've heard that if you go to the top of the Strat after dark you can really tell how isolated Las Vegas really is. The whole valley is lit up, and then beyond that, pitch black in every direction for miles. Night satellite images (like this from https://www.nightearth.com/) also kind of show this:
(https://i.imgur.com/XvYZSAi.png)
Depends on how high up you are. The thing that sells me on Vegas not being so desolate anymore is the evening glow present from the metro area at night in Death Valley. Pahrump is probably contributing much of that light pollution also.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 10, 2024, 06:04:07 PMDepends on how high up you are. The thing that sells me on Vegas not being so desolate anymore is the evening glow present from the metro area at night in Death Valley. Pahrump is probably contributing much of that light pollution also.
Wouldn't that mean that it's Death Valley that isn't as isolated anymore, not Las Vegas?
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 10, 2024, 06:12:01 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 10, 2024, 06:04:07 PMDepends on how high up you are. The thing that sells me on Vegas not being so desolate anymore is the evening glow present from the metro area at night in Death Valley. Pahrump is probably contributing much of that light pollution also.
Wouldn't that mean that it's Death Valley that isn't as isolated anymore, not Las Vegas?
Why not both? If you asked me this in 2001 I would have agreed. When I was running a work circuit between Vegas-Laughlin-Bullhead-Kingman circa 2011-2013 things has definitely become more civilized in the Mojave Desert. None of my excursions back to the area have left me feeling like the area is all that isolated anymore.
Then again, I don't feel like any of these cities being is "truly remote." I haven't made a poll selection nor thought of a 500k metro I think was worthy of submitting.
The reason I didn't put Las Vegas on the list - it probably would have been next up had I added more choices - was because it's 6 hours or less to Phoenix and most of SoCal, both of which are massive population centers. So if you're looking at total population within a 6-8 hour drive, it's upwards of 30 million. Compare that with Boise or El Paso, where you're looking at a quarter of that or less.
New Orleans was mentioned earlier. The Crescent City might be physically isolated in terms of geography (surrounded by a lot of water and swamp land). But it isn't far from other significant population centers. Houston is a pretty good haul (347 miles), but Baton Rouge, Lafayette, Lake Charles and Beaumont are in between. Gulfport-Biloxi, Mobile, Pensacola and Destin aren't far to the East.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 10, 2024, 09:24:17 PMNew Orleans was mentioned earlier. The Crescent City might be physically isolated in terms of geography (surrounded by a lot of water and swamp land). But it isn't far from other significant population centers. Houston is a pretty good haul (347 miles), but Baton Rouge, Lafayette, Lake Charles and Beaumont are in between. Gulfport-Biloxi, Mobile, Pensacola and Destin aren't far to the East.
A better measure might be "how far to a metro of the same size or at least 50% of the size". If I get around to it tomorrow, I'll try to figure it out.
Good thing the OP restricted this to the 48 contiguous states, otherwise I'd have said Honolulu. I don't think one can get more isolated than that :bigass:.
I would have to say that the City of Lost Wages... I mean Las Vegas.... is NOT an isolated city metropolitan area. With 2,336,573 residents, it is very populated. For a non-hub airport, it has flights from even Korea, Japan, and several Europenan countries (https://www.flightsfrom.com/explorer/LAS?mapview). I-15 is a major route through that city. There are plenty of entertainment opportunities. It just feels isolated because of the distance between cities.
If someone asks me if I had a choice between living in Vegas or Billings, I would say Vegas first. I would look at Billings as a getaway destination though.
Quote from: ZLoth on December 11, 2024, 10:01:33 AMI would look at Billings as a getaway destination though.
Why if I may ask?
One of the few places you can get a normally priced hotel within day trip distance of Yellowstone.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 11, 2024, 11:32:20 AMOne of the few places you can get a normally priced hotel within day trip distance of Yellowstone.
I guess. Billings isn't much of a tourist town was my point.
Side note, I'm currently writing a Python script that will determine how far the closest city is to another that has at least half its population. The data set that I found with both location (latitude/longitude) and population is a few years old, but should suffice for the purposes of this thread.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 12:33:20 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 11, 2024, 11:32:20 AMOne of the few places you can get a normally priced hotel within day trip distance of Yellowstone.
I guess. Billings isn't much of a tourist town was my point.
Side note, I'm currently writing a Python script that will determine how far the closest city is to another that has at least half its population. The data set that I found with both location (latitude/longitude) and population is a few years old, but should suffice for the purposes of this thread.
Indeed, which probably explains why hotels like places like Jackson Hole, West Yellowstone and Big Sky are super expensive.
Quote from: JayhawkCOSide note, I'm currently writing a Python script that will determine how far the closest city is to another that has at least half its population. The data set that I found with both location (latitude/longitude) and population is a few years old, but should suffice for the purposes of this thread.
How are you handling suburbs? If Spokane Valley was just a bit larger, Spokane would register as less than 10 miles.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 10:35:38 AMQuote from: ZLoth on December 11, 2024, 10:01:33 AMI would look at Billings as a getaway destination though.
Why if I may ask?
It looks to be a nice area to explore in the summer.
The area yes. The city not so much.
Quote from: hotdogPi on December 11, 2024, 12:37:16 PMQuote from: JayhawkCOSide note, I'm currently writing a Python script that will determine how far the closest city is to another that has at least half its population. The data set that I found with both location (latitude/longitude) and population is a few years old, but should suffice for the purposes of this thread.
How are you handling suburbs? If Spokane Valley was just a bit larger, Spokane would register as less than 10 miles.
I suppose I can exclude anything that's within 20 miles or so.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 11, 2024, 12:51:01 PMThe area yes. The city not so much.
Eh, by Montana standards, it's not even a great area. Little Bighorn isn't too far, but it's not that exciting. I'd much rather spend my time in western or central Montana.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 12:53:10 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 11, 2024, 12:51:01 PMThe area yes. The city not so much.
Eh, my Montana standards, it's not even a great area. Little Bighorn isn't too far, but it's not that exciting. I'd much rather spend my time in western or central Montana.
Probably greatly depends on what one would consider reasonable distances to travel to/from a base city during a trip. I've used Billings for Yellowstone hiking trips a couple times. All the same I'm probably more willing than most to get up well before sunrise to head out to a trailhead (especially on the likes of US 212).
Alright, finally got my data collected. Here are all of the cities, note cities not metro areas, that are at least 175 miles away from a U.S. city that's at least 50% its population, excluding anything that's within 30 miles of it. Obviously the top few are outliers just because they're so large. Distances are great circle distances, not via road.
New York - N/A
Honolulu - 2,394 miles to San Francisco
Anchorage - 1,434 miles to Seattle
Los Angeles - 1,741 miles to Chicago
Chicago - 664 miles to Philadelphia
Jacksonville - 341 miles to Charlotte
Phoenix - 298 miles to San Diego
Minneapolis - 232 miles to Madison
El Paso - 230 miles to Albuquerque
Albuquerque - 230 miles to El Paso
Boise - 229 miles to Kennewick
Atlanta - 215 miles to Nashville
Miami - 204 miles to Orlando
Las Vegas - 199 miles to Riverside
Memphis - 196 miles to Nashville
Nashville - 196 miles to Memphis
St. Louis - 195 miles to Springfield
Boston - 190 miles to New York
Houston - 189 miles to San Antonio
Billings - 178 miles to Great Falls
Rapid City - 175 miles to Casper
Here it is by population ranges:
50,000-100,000
Rapid City - 176 miles to Casper
Grand Junction - 162 miles to Farmington
Missoula - 134 miles to Great Falls
Duluth - 124 miles to Blaine
Medford - 119 miles to Springfield
100,000-250,000
Boise - 230 miles to Kennewick
Billings - 178 miles to Great Falls
Sioux Falls - 163 miles to Omaha
Fargo - 155 miles to St. Cloud
Jackson - 141 miles to Baton Rouge
250,000-500,0000
Minneapolis - 233 miles to Madison
Atlanta - 215 miles to Nashville
Miami - 204 miles to Orlando
St. Louis - 195 miles to Springfield
Kansas City - 161 miles to Lincoln
500,000-750,000
El Paso - 230 miles to Albuquerque
Albuquerque - 230 miles to El Paso
Las Vegas - 200 miles to Riverside
Nashville - 196 miles to Memphis
Memphis - 195 miles to Nashville
750,000-1,000,000
Jacksonville - 341 miles to Charlotte
Columbus - 164 miles to Detroit
Indianapolis - 164 miles to Chicago
Charlotte - 130 miles to Raleigh
Austin - 74 miles to San Antonio
I ended up voting for Boise. Sure, the "distance to city at least 50% as large" figure is a mile longer for El Paso, but Albuquerque is larger than Kennewick, and it feels like El Paso has more reasonably direct interstate paths to major cities than Boise does.
Quote from: TheStranger on December 10, 2024, 05:50:51 PMDenver metro is about 580 miles from Kansas City metro, so slightly less isolated than when measuring towards the Metroplex. (SLC metro area is a bit over 1.2 million and is about 510 west of Denver)
But Denver has Colorado City to the south and Fort Collins to the North
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 10, 2024, 10:56:18 AMI think the NYC mention was a joke. The cluster of DC, Baltimore, Philadephia, NYC and all the miscellaneous other cities leading up to Boston amounts to the most NOT-isolated region of the 48 states.
Quote from: kernals12I'd say Las Vegas.
Las Vegas is 254 miles from Phoenix and 227 miles from San Bernadino (technically part of the LA megapolis). The Victorville area North of Cajon Pass has a modest cluster of small cities. Boise is a farther distance than that away from the nearest major population centers.
I can't really consider Boise a major city
Quote from: kernals12 on December 11, 2024, 08:01:06 PMQuote from: TheStranger on December 10, 2024, 05:50:51 PMDenver metro is about 580 miles from Kansas City metro, so slightly less isolated than when measuring towards the Metroplex. (SLC metro area is a bit over 1.2 million and is about 510 west of Denver)
But Denver has Colorado City to the south and Fort Collins to the North
And Colorado Springs to the South too.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 08:14:26 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 11, 2024, 08:01:06 PMQuote from: TheStranger on December 10, 2024, 05:50:51 PMDenver metro is about 580 miles from Kansas City metro, so slightly less isolated than when measuring towards the Metroplex. (SLC metro area is a bit over 1.2 million and is about 510 west of Denver)
But Denver has Colorado City to the south and Fort Collins to the North
And Colorado Springs to the South too.
Sorry, typo
Quote from: kernals12 on December 11, 2024, 08:40:51 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 08:14:26 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 11, 2024, 08:01:06 PMQuote from: TheStranger on December 10, 2024, 05:50:51 PMDenver metro is about 580 miles from Kansas City metro, so slightly less isolated than when measuring towards the Metroplex. (SLC metro area is a bit over 1.2 million and is about 510 west of Denver)
But Denver has Colorado City to the south and Fort Collins to the North
And Colorado Springs to the South too.
Sorry, typo
Technically no, Colorado City is also due south of Denver.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elko,_Nevada
Elko, Nevada has gotta be up there for most isolated area in the continental United States.
Quote from: bing101 on December 13, 2024, 12:35:09 AMhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elko,_Nevada
Elko, Nevada has gotta be up there for most isolated area in the continental United States.
Area, maybe. Major city, that's a reeeal stretch...
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 03:28:17 PMMinneapolis - 233 miles to Madison
But 0 miles to St. Paul :-P
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 12:41:44 AMQuote from: bing101 on December 13, 2024, 12:35:09 AMhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elko,_Nevada
Elko, Nevada has gotta be up there for most isolated area in the continental United States.
Area, maybe. Major city, that's a reeeal stretch...
On Nevada official road maps from the 50s, they included detail maps for Vegas, Reno, and combined Ely & East Ely. But not Carson City. If they can think Ely's that important, Bing can be forgiven for thinking Elko is.
This seems like a good time to reference
this handy tool (https://sedac.ciesin.columbia.edu/mapping/popest/pes-v3/) (thanks to
@hotdogPi for initially sharing this in another thread some time ago).
It obviously can't calculate isolation on a city-to-city level, but you can get a really good idea of the relative isolation of a place by calculating total population within a given radius (just have a km-to-miles converter handy if you, like me, prefer to use miles).
Well, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.
:-P
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.
:-P
Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AMQuote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.
:-P
Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?
You need to drive on I-75 to get there from the UP, though. Or I-43 and take the ferry.
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 13, 2024, 11:58:44 AMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AMQuote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.
:-P
Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?
You need to drive on I-75 to get there from the UP, though. Or I-43 and take the ferry.
Bruh I was thinking on the one near Traverse City. Oops.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 03:03:11 PMAlright, finally got my data collected. Here are all of the cities, note cities not metro areas, that are at least 175 miles away from a U.S. city that's at least 50% its population, excluding anything that's within 30 miles of it. Obviously the top few are outliers just because they're so large. Distances are great circle distances, not via road.
New York - N/A
Honolulu - 2,394 miles to San Francisco
Anchorage - 1,434 miles to Seattle
Los Angeles - 1,741 miles to Chicago
Chicago - 664 miles to Philadelphia
Jacksonville - 341 miles to Charlotte
Phoenix - 298 miles to San Diego
Minneapolis - 232 miles to Madison
El Paso - 230 miles to Albuquerque
Albuquerque - 230 miles to El Paso
Boise - 229 miles to Kennewick
Atlanta - 215 miles to Nashville
Miami - 204 miles to Orlando
Las Vegas - 199 miles to Riverside
Memphis - 196 miles to Nashville
Nashville - 196 miles to Memphis
St. Louis - 195 miles to Springfield
Boston - 190 miles to New York
Houston - 189 miles to San Antonio
Billings - 178 miles to Great Falls
Rapid City - 175 miles to Casper
I want to note that Salt Lake City is not on this list because Provo is a little more than half its population and is 38 miles away. I definitely wouldn't say Provo is a suburb of Salt Lake, but the greater Wasatch Front does more or less function as one sprawled metro at this point in a way it probably did not 30-40 years ago.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AMQuote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.
:-P
Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?
The tip of the Keweenaw is much closer to the intersection of I-41/43 in Green Bay than it is to Cadillac.
Quote from: US 89 on December 13, 2024, 12:26:28 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 03:03:11 PMAlright, finally got my data collected. Here are all of the cities, note cities not metro areas, that are at least 175 miles away from a U.S. city that's at least 50% its population, excluding anything that's within 30 miles of it. Obviously the top few are outliers just because they're so large. Distances are great circle distances, not via road.
New York - N/A
Honolulu - 2,394 miles to San Francisco
Anchorage - 1,434 miles to Seattle
Los Angeles - 1,741 miles to Chicago
Chicago - 664 miles to Philadelphia
Jacksonville - 341 miles to Charlotte
Phoenix - 298 miles to San Diego
Minneapolis - 232 miles to Madison
El Paso - 230 miles to Albuquerque
Albuquerque - 230 miles to El Paso
Boise - 229 miles to Kennewick
Atlanta - 215 miles to Nashville
Miami - 204 miles to Orlando
Las Vegas - 199 miles to Riverside
Memphis - 196 miles to Nashville
Nashville - 196 miles to Memphis
St. Louis - 195 miles to Springfield
Boston - 190 miles to New York
Houston - 189 miles to San Antonio
Billings - 178 miles to Great Falls
Rapid City - 175 miles to Casper
I want to note that Salt Lake City is not on this list because Provo is a little more than half its population and is 38 miles away. I definitely wouldn't say Provo is a suburb of Salt Lake, but the greater Wasatch Front does more or less function as one sprawled metro at this point in a way it probably did not 30-40 years ago.
Similar story with Denver and Colorado Springs.
I would say the reason Denver is not isolated is more because of the cities to the north, not the south; you have the edge of the suburbs (e.g. Broomfield), Boulder, Longmont, Loveland, and Fort Collins all without too much of a gap.
Quote from: hotdogPi on December 13, 2024, 01:17:01 PMI would say the reason Denver is not isolated is more because of the cities to the north, not the south; you have the edge of the suburbs (e.g. Broomfield), Boulder, Longmont, Loveland, and Fort Collins all without too much of a gap.
There's basically only a minimal gap from Fountain all the way up to Wellington at this point.
Quote from: US 89 on December 13, 2024, 12:26:28 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 03:03:11 PMAlright, finally got my data collected. Here are all of the cities, note cities not metro areas, that are at least 175 miles away from a U.S. city that's at least 50% its population, excluding anything that's within 30 miles of it. Obviously the top few are outliers just because they're so large. Distances are great circle distances, not via road.
New York - N/A
Honolulu - 2,394 miles to San Francisco
Anchorage - 1,434 miles to Seattle
Los Angeles - 1,741 miles to Chicago
Chicago - 664 miles to Philadelphia
Jacksonville - 341 miles to Charlotte
Phoenix - 298 miles to San Diego
Minneapolis - 232 miles to Madison
El Paso - 230 miles to Albuquerque
Albuquerque - 230 miles to El Paso
Boise - 229 miles to Kennewick
Atlanta - 215 miles to Nashville
Miami - 204 miles to Orlando
Las Vegas - 199 miles to Riverside
Memphis - 196 miles to Nashville
Nashville - 196 miles to Memphis
St. Louis - 195 miles to Springfield
Boston - 190 miles to New York
Houston - 189 miles to San Antonio
Billings - 178 miles to Great Falls
Rapid City - 175 miles to Casper
I want to note that Salt Lake City is not on this list because Provo is a little more than half its population and is 38 miles away. I definitely wouldn't say Provo is a suburb of Salt Lake, but the greater Wasatch Front does more or less function as one sprawled metro at this point in a way it probably did not 30-40 years ago.
Well, they did get rid of Point of the Mountain.
I live in Boise, and while I haven't even been to El Paso, I think El Paso seems more isolated. Sure, you have Juarez right there. But if you want to travel to another major city, you have to go a long ways in any direction. If you want to travel to a CSA of 2 million+ (besides Juarez), here's how far you have to go from Boise and El Paso. I picked the 4 closest.
From Boise:
Salt Lake City: 340 miles
Portland: 430 miles
Seattle: 505 miles
Sacramento: 550 miles
From El Paso:
Phoenix: 430 miles
San Antonio: 550 miles
Fort Worth: 600 miles
Denver: 635 miles
I use 2 million CSA as the cut off, as that's the kind of city you might travel to for a major concert, a major league sports game, a larger airport with more international flights, an IKEA, etc. Sorry Tucson and Albuquerque, good sized cities, but you don't fit in that category.
El Paso is a little farther from the bigger cities than Boise is. And having Juarez in your backyard, doesn't change the fact that putting together the two, you're still isolated from everything else. And Juarez lacks a lot of those amenities I listed that some people might travel for (unlike Denver and SLC, which are also isolated, but have those amenities already).
Quote from: hotdogPi on December 13, 2024, 01:17:01 PMI would say the reason Denver is not isolated is more because of the cities to the north, not the south; you have the edge of the suburbs (e.g. Broomfield), Boulder, Longmont, Loveland, and Fort Collins all without too much of a gap.
You can also make the same argument for Boise with Nampa, Meridian, Caldwell, etc.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 13, 2024, 12:46:50 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AMQuote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.
:-P
Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?
The tip of the Keweenaw is much closer to the intersection of I-41/43 in Green Bay than it is to Cadillac.
and closer to the north end of I-39 just south of Wausaw.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AMQuote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.
:-P
Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?
For the most part it is but the Keweenaw Peninsula is nowhere near Cadillac. It's probably a 7 hour drive to the Keweenaw from Cadillac.
Quote from: US 89 on December 13, 2024, 12:26:28 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on December 11, 2024, 03:03:11 PMAlright, finally got my data collected. Here are all of the cities, note cities not metro areas, that are at least 175 miles away from a U.S. city that's at least 50% its population, excluding anything that's within 30 miles of it. Obviously the top few are outliers just because they're so large. Distances are great circle distances, not via road.
New York - N/A
Honolulu - 2,394 miles to San Francisco
Anchorage - 1,434 miles to Seattle
Los Angeles - 1,741 miles to Chicago
Chicago - 664 miles to Philadelphia
Jacksonville - 341 miles to Charlotte
Phoenix - 298 miles to San Diego
Minneapolis - 232 miles to Madison
El Paso - 230 miles to Albuquerque
Albuquerque - 230 miles to El Paso
Boise - 229 miles to Kennewick
Atlanta - 215 miles to Nashville
Miami - 204 miles to Orlando
Las Vegas - 199 miles to Riverside
Memphis - 196 miles to Nashville
Nashville - 196 miles to Memphis
St. Louis - 195 miles to Springfield
Boston - 190 miles to New York
Houston - 189 miles to San Antonio
Billings - 178 miles to Great Falls
Rapid City - 175 miles to Casper
I want to note that Salt Lake City is not on this list because Provo is a little more than half its population and is 38 miles away. I definitely wouldn't say Provo is a suburb of Salt Lake, but the greater Wasatch Front does more or less function as one sprawled metro at this point in a way it probably did not 30-40 years ago.
You're making the mistake so many people make. Who cares about City population. The metro population is what matters. Metro population is what determines what kind of businesses do business there and what kind amenities an area has. It's the difference between a Holiday inn being your nicest hotel in the area and a Hyatt.
Quote from: TempoNick on December 13, 2024, 09:20:37 PMYou're making the mistake so many people make. Who cares about City population. The metro population is what matters. Metro population is what determines what kind of businesses do business there and what kind amenities an area has. It's the difference between a Holiday inn being your nicest hotel in the area and a Hyatt.
I doubt he "made a mistake" and probably just didn't feel like faffing about with the data just to answer a question of curiosity on a Web forum. But since it's so important to you, I'm sure you're working on your own script as we speak...right?
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 10:50:45 PMQuote from: TempoNick on December 13, 2024, 09:20:37 PMYou're making the mistake so many people make. Who cares about City population. The metro population is what matters. Metro population is what determines what kind of businesses do business there and what kind amenities an area has. It's the difference between a Holiday inn being your nicest hotel in the area and a Hyatt.
I doubt he "made a mistake" and probably just didn't feel like faffing about with the data just to answer a question of curiosity on a Web forum. But since it's so important to you, I'm sure you're working on your own script as we speak...right?
Exactly. If someone wants to find me a data set than includes latitude, longitude, and population of metro areas, I'm happy to rerun the numbers.
Quote from: hotdogPi on December 11, 2024, 12:37:16 PMHow are you handling suburbs? If Spokane Valley was just a bit larger, Spokane would register as less than 10 miles.
I'm amused that the "Spokene International Airport" currently doesn't have international destinations (https://www.flightsfrom.com/explorer/GEG?mapview). Spokene is also right next door to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho which is a nice place to visit.
Quote from: Big John on December 13, 2024, 04:49:16 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 13, 2024, 12:46:50 PMQuote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 11:54:35 AMQuote from: mgk920 on December 13, 2024, 11:48:59 AMWell, the tip of the Keweenaw peninsula in Michigan has been acknowledged in here as the most remote drive distance from the nearest I-route in the contiguous 48 USA states, but there are no major cities anywhere near to there.
:-P
Mike
True although isn't US 131 South of Cadillac interstate standard?
The tip of the Keweenaw is much closer to the intersection of I-41/43 in Green Bay than it is to Cadillac.
and closer to the north end of I-39 just south of Wausaw.
Also closer to I-75 than it is to Cadillac, MI
Mike
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 14, 2024, 08:43:37 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 10:50:45 PMQuote from: TempoNick on December 13, 2024, 09:20:37 PMYou're making the mistake so many people make. Who cares about City population. The metro population is what matters. Metro population is what determines what kind of businesses do business there and what kind amenities an area has. It's the difference between a Holiday inn being your nicest hotel in the area and a Hyatt.
I doubt he "made a mistake" and probably just didn't feel like faffing about with the data just to answer a question of curiosity on a Web forum. But since it's so important to you, I'm sure you're working on your own script as we speak...right?
Exactly. If someone wants to find me a data set than includes latitude, longitude, and population of metro areas, I'm happy to rerun the numbers.
Even using MSA population won't solve all the problems. Salt Lake City, Provo, and Ogden form three metropolitan areas despite being one urbanized corridor. Raleigh and Durham are two different MSAs. But Seattle and Tacoma are the same MSA.
You could sort by CSA, but some CSAs are so big they're unwieldy (Atlanta-Athens GA comes to mind), and some large MSAs aren't part of a CSA (such as Phoenix). And you still run into the same type of issue as you see with MSAs - the Denver CSA does not include Colorado Springs, for example.
Quote from: US 89 on December 14, 2024, 12:30:30 PMEven using MSA population won't solve all the problems. Salt Lake City, Provo, and Ogden form three metropolitan areas despite being one urbanized corridor. Raleigh and Durham are two different MSAs. But Seattle and Tacoma are the same MSA.
You could sort by CSA, but some CSAs are so big they're unwieldy (Atlanta-Athens GA comes to mind), and some large MSAs aren't part of a CSA (such as Phoenix). And you still run into the same type of issue as you see with MSAs - the Denver CSA does not include Colorado Springs, for example.
Right, I think the real mistake here, to the extent there was one, was assuming that SLC-Ogden-Provo were one MSA to begin with.
It kind of goes against the spirit of the thread, but Eureka, CA and Crescent City, CA would probably qualify if we removed the population element. Both of these cities are almost entirely at the mercy of US-101 being open. CA-299 can be closed due to snow, US-199 has similar issues. I once got stuck in Arcata because I physically could not drive to Crescent City like I wanted to, because a rock slide happened due to some rain. There are no other parallel roads to US-101 in the Redwood Curtain. (And CA-299 was closed). Bad weather, you could be stuck for a while.
I bring it up because most of the other places mentioned in this thread at least always have multiple road connections. There is almost always at least one major highway in either direction. Not the case in the Redwood Curtain, where everything relies on US-101.