There's no wa! Badeedle-badeed! At Frisch's Big Boy! 'Cause it ain't such a value!
Frisch's Big Boy is a widely ridiculed restaurant chain around Cincinnati. Now many (if not most) of its locations are closing after being evicted for not paying rent.
I used to enjoy eating at the one in Fort Thomas when I was very young, but that changed when I was about 6 or 7 when I got food poisoning there. The restaurant also gained a greasy stench that I've also detected in other restaurants. That location closed maybe 10 or 15 years ago.
I think the last time I ate at a Frisch's was in the late 2000s when a group of us went to the one in Milford because nothing else was open. About 5 or 6 years ago, I planned to eat at the one near downtown Covington because it had just reopened after being remodeled. But I went in there and noticed it looked like the same old Frisch's. Now that location is closing despite being recently remodeled.
Also, the whole chain has gone downhill since they were taken over by some private equity firm about 10 years ago. Someone on a review website said they found a bunch of cigarette butts and other garbage in their Dr Pepper. Other reviews say their restrooms have bodily waste smeared everywhere.
So Frisch's is in shambles, and the whole chain is on its last legs.
I think it's awful how a chain ended up in the condition it is in now, and reading the last two paragraphs in the OP made me want to puke. But at least they had that cute, charming mascot as their one redeeming quality.
In Chicago, we had Marc's Big Boy, and I remember eating there during my summer breaks from school. The last time I went was back in 1993, just before they closed for good.
Of course, if you remember the glory years, the flagship franchisee was Bob's Big Boy (another favorite former haunt of mine in my Los Angeles years), with Shoney's as another major partner before splintering off into its own company.
And if you ever wondered how the chain's namesake burger got its name, here's the answer:
QuoteThe chain is best known for its trademark chubby boy with a pompadour hairstyle wearing red-and-white checkered overalls holding a Big Boy sandwich (double-decker cheeseburger). The inspiration for Big Boy's name, as well as the model for its mascot, was Richard Woodruff of Glendale, California. When he was six years old, Woodruff walked into the diner Bob's Pantry as Bob Wian was attempting to name his new hamburger. Wian said, "Hello, Big Boy" to Woodruff, and the name stuck. Warner Bros. animation artist Ben Washam sketched Richard's caricature, which became the character seen on the company trademark.
Quote from: Henry on December 13, 2024, 11:03:10 PMOf course, if you remember the glory years, the flagship franchisee was Bob's Big Boy (another favorite former haunt of mine in my Los Angeles years), with Shoney's as another major partner before splintering off into its own company.
They just opened a new Bob's Big Boy up the road from me not too long ago. Way up the road...in Indian Springs, Nevada, a little town stuck to the side of an Air Force base. Why they decided to open one there instead of in Las Vegas (which has no Big Boy locations), I have no idea.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 11:28:49 PMWhy they decided to open one there instead of in Las Vegas (which has no Big Boy locations), I have no idea.
Probably a question of market. I wouldn't open a lesser known franchise in Québec City where the market is saturated... but it might have a chance in my hometown where there aren't that many options.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 14, 2024, 12:56:03 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 11:28:49 PMWhy they decided to open one there instead of in Las Vegas (which has no Big Boy locations), I have no idea.
Probably a question of market. I wouldn't open a lesser known franchise in Québec City where the market is saturated... but it might have a chance in my hometown where there aren't that many options.
I guess there are enough people coming through on US-95 and in and out of Creech AFB to make having 100% of the market worth it.
Still, though, there's enough places in the Las Vegas Valley where you could plop a store down and be the first one in the area before it develops around you, if "get 100% of a small number of people" was your market strategy.
We had Bob's Big Boy here. The one across from my high school was torn down and is now a Wendy's. A different one lives on in local lore: The one in Springfield was torn down and, over time, there have been other restaurants there (Long John Silver's and Chi-Chi's come to mind; I think it's now a Panda Express), but the people using the nearby slug line still generally call the location "Bob's," as in a driver pulling up to the line in DC and calling out, "Two for Bob's."
Bob's Big Boy used to have a promo at the hockey games where if the Caps shut out the other team, you got a coupon for a free burger. I don't remember when that ended; it was replaced by a local pizza chain giving you a coupon for free pizza if they scored a certain number of goals.
Is Frisch's Big Boy related to Bob's Big Boy?
Is Bob's Big Boy related to Carl's Jr.?
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on December 14, 2024, 09:34:12 AMIs Frisch's Big Boy related to Bob's Big Boy?
Is Bob's Big Boy related to Carl's Jr.?
Big Boy was an early form of franchising. Unlike modern franchising, where the point is to be exactly alike all over, under Big Boy different companies had different regions and each had their own designs and menus, which were quite different. There were about 20 different Big Boy chains, the largest being Shoney's, which had most of the South; followed by Cincinnati centered Frish's, the original Bob's in California, and Detroit centered Elias Brothers.
Eventually, TV advertising and overlap, caused a series of lawsuits between different franchises. Eventually it all fell apart, with the different restaurants either just dropping "Big Boy", as Shoney's did, or going out of business as that type of restaurant has fallen from favor.
Leaving two companies. The remnant of the old Elias Brothers has the rights to Big Boy, including the "Bob's" variant, in most of the world, and Frish's has most of Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana, and a few other states where it doesn't have restaurants, but owns the trademark.
Carls Jr has no relationship with either company.
I remember seeing Shoney's Big Boy when we visited Tennessee or Georgia. But then Shoney's expanded up around here, and they had to drop their Big Boy because it infringed on Frisch's territory.
There was also Elby's Big Boy in eastern Ohio, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania. I think there was an Azar's Big Boy in parts of Indiana.
1978 Big Boy ad. go to :45 mark where they are flashing all their franchise logos.
Is Frisch's actually shrinking? Not sure if its decline is as dramatic as other dying chains. Seems to be holding on in KY well enough.
Quote from: bandit957 on December 14, 2024, 10:24:31 AMI remember seeing Shoney's Big Boy when we visited Tennessee or Georgia. But then Shoney's expanded up around here, and they had to drop their Big Boy because it infringed on Frisch's territory.
There was also Elby's Big Boy in eastern Ohio, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania. I think there was an Azar's Big Boy in parts of Indiana.
This thread prompted me to look up "Big Boy Restaurants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Boy_Restaurants)" on Wikipedia. Quite the convoluted explanation. I largely skimmed the article because it was more detail than I was seeking, but it explains the system as sort of a "chain of chains."
I can't imagine how a once-great chain could fall so badly.
Quote from: bandit957 on December 13, 2024, 10:07:01 PMAlso, the whole chain has gone downhill since they were taken over by some private equity firm about 10 years ago.
Oh. Never mind.
Quote from: Rothman on December 14, 2024, 11:24:49 AMIs Frisch's actually shrinking? Not sure if its decline is as dramatic as other dying chains. Seems to be holding on in KY well enough.
https://www.wlwt.com/article/frischs-mainliner-evicted/63186372
https://www.lex18.com/news/covering-kentucky/end-of-an-era-frischs-announces-multiple-closures-in-lexington
Quote from: wanderer2575 on December 14, 2024, 11:36:47 AMI can't imagine how a once-great chain could fall so badly.
Quote from: bandit957 on December 13, 2024, 10:07:01 PMAlso, the whole chain has gone downhill since they were taken over by some private equity firm about 10 years ago.
Oh. Never mind.
It should be illegal for private equity firms to own businesses.
Quote from: Rothman on December 14, 2024, 11:24:49 AMIs Frisch's actually shrinking? Not sure if its decline is as dramatic as other dying chains. Seems to be holding on in KY well enough.
Several closed last week in Kentucky (Lexington and Winchester, along with others in northern Kentucky) as their buildings were owned by the creditor. Other locations now owned by the landlord creditor, such as London, remained open and seem to be in good shape.
Quote from: vdeane on December 14, 2024, 04:57:27 PMIt should be illegal for private equity firms to own businesses.
Then what would they own? That's their business model. To own companies and hopefully make money at it.
Quote from: GaryV on December 16, 2024, 04:34:45 PMQuote from: vdeane on December 14, 2024, 04:57:27 PMIt should be illegal for private equity firms to own businesses.
Then what would they own? That's their business model. To own companies and hopefully make money at it.
I completely get why people don't like private equity in general. Generally they buy things and rip them apart, or reduce costs to an extent that it becomes crap, but that's pretty much what the free market is for. If Big Boy sucks because of private equity, go eat elsewhere.
Quote from: GaryV on December 16, 2024, 04:34:45 PMQuote from: vdeane on December 14, 2024, 04:57:27 PMIt should be illegal for private equity firms to own businesses.
Then what would they own? That's their business model. To own companies and hopefully make money at it.
Not very much different than organized crime.
Quote from: Rothman on December 16, 2024, 06:33:38 PMQuote from: GaryV on December 16, 2024, 04:34:45 PMQuote from: vdeane on December 14, 2024, 04:57:27 PMIt should be illegal for private equity firms to own businesses.
Then what would they own? That's their business model. To own companies and hopefully make money at it.
Not very much different than organized crime.
Of course its different. Completely so. They legally buy assets and run them the way they want. No threats, no muscle, nothing illegal.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 16, 2024, 07:40:26 PMQuote from: Rothman on December 16, 2024, 06:33:38 PMQuote from: GaryV on December 16, 2024, 04:34:45 PMQuote from: vdeane on December 14, 2024, 04:57:27 PMIt should be illegal for private equity firms to own businesses.
Then what would they own? That's their business model. To own companies and hopefully make money at it.
Not very much different than organized crime.
Of course its different. Completely so. They legally buy assets and run them the way they want. No threats, no muscle, nothing illegal.
Who's being naive, Kay?
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 14, 2024, 11:28:08 AMQuote from: bandit957 on December 14, 2024, 10:24:31 AMI remember seeing Shoney's Big Boy when we visited Tennessee or Georgia. But then Shoney's expanded up around here, and they had to drop their Big Boy because it infringed on Frisch's territory.
There was also Elby's Big Boy in eastern Ohio, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania. I think there was an Azar's Big Boy in parts of Indiana.
This thread prompted me to look up "Big Boy Restaurants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Boy_Restaurants)" on Wikipedia. Quite the convoluted explanation. I largely skimmed the article because it was more detail than I was seeking, but it explains the system as sort of a "chain of chains."
Wow, that's a rabbit hole of Big Boy information. I figured it was like three different restaurants, but nope...like 57 more of them, a bunch of owners, and 200 semi-not-quite-affiliated stores in Japan.
Quote from: Rothman on December 16, 2024, 07:50:47 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 16, 2024, 07:40:26 PMQuote from: Rothman on December 16, 2024, 06:33:38 PMQuote from: GaryV on December 16, 2024, 04:34:45 PMQuote from: vdeane on December 14, 2024, 04:57:27 PMIt should be illegal for private equity firms to own businesses.
Then what would they own? That's their business model. To own companies and hopefully make money at it.
Not very much different than organized crime.
Of course its different. Completely so. They legally buy assets and run them the way they want. No threats, no muscle, nothing illegal.
Who's being naive, Kay?
So in other words, you have no counter-argument.
A news piece a couple of years ago on Japan's Big Boy chain:
https://wrkr.com/big-boy-japan/
And a longer writeup from this year:
https://soranews24.com/2024/08/31/bobs-big-boy-is-alive-and-well-and-also-a-cute-robot-in-japan%E3%80%90photos%E3%80%91/
Quote from: GaryV on December 16, 2024, 04:34:45 PMQuote from: vdeane on December 14, 2024, 04:57:27 PMIt should be illegal for private equity firms to own businesses.
Then what would they own?
(https://i.imgur.com/48GWsBf.jpeg)
Big Boy has made a few attempts to break into Wisconsin in recent years without much success. They had two locations in the Milwaukee suburbs, both of which are now closed, and opened a restaurant in Wisconsin Dells earlier this year. Only time will tell if that one will last.
I was born too late to go to the Chicago-area Big Boys, but my mom had a lot of nostalgia for them, and my family usually stopped at one if were were visiting a place where they still existed. I've eaten there occasionally on my own, but my last Big Boy meal in Michigan upset my stomach, so I'm not sure I'll go back anytime soon.
Quote from: vdeane on December 14, 2024, 04:57:27 PMQuote from: wanderer2575 on December 14, 2024, 11:36:47 AMI can't imagine how a once-great chain could fall so badly.
Quote from: bandit957 on December 13, 2024, 10:07:01 PMAlso, the whole chain has gone downhill since they were taken over by some private equity firm about 10 years ago.
Oh. Never mind.
It should be illegal for private equity firms to own businesses.
A private equity firm is a company that owns a bunch of businesses that are not publicly traded. How do you distinguish that from any old conglomerate that has numerous subsidiaries?
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 16, 2024, 09:19:53 PMQuote from: GaryV on December 16, 2024, 04:34:45 PMQuote from: vdeane on December 14, 2024, 04:57:27 PMIt should be illegal for private equity firms to own businesses.
Then what would they own?
(https://i.imgur.com/48GWsBf.jpeg)
Doing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
Quote from: Big John on December 14, 2024, 11:04:33 AM1978 Big Boy ad. go to :45 mark where they are flashing all their franchise logos.
There was another commercial from around that time where they had maybe 9 waitress-costumed actresses singing, and standing in a square arrangement on a map of the USA against a dark background. They were each holding a card with one of the Big Boy franchise logos. At a cue in the song they flipped the cards over to form a mosaic of the classic Big Boy character.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
I guess what they complain about are firms coming in and buying companies for the purpose of stripping them of their assets. But I don't think what people realize is that a firms assets are oftentimes more valuable that way.
Big Boy, just like similar restaurants like Perkins, are more about nostalgia than anything else. If they were offering a consistently good product that the customor likes, they would be fine. But they apparently do not.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
I don't doubt there are some situations in which they buy something with the intention of using the losses to offset profits somewhere else. I'm not a tax specialist, though.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
I think they do have an incentive but it's finance bros and not business people running the things, and inevitably they just run them into the ground. It's a bug not a feature, but it's so common it's becoming a feature.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 17, 2024, 10:28:58 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
I don't doubt there are some situations in which they buy something with the intention of using the losses to offset profits somewhere else. I'm not a tax specialist, though.
That's exactly what happens. I'm at a company that is owned by a private equity firm; the stock buyout was nice but now our overall profit is determined differently than public perception and actual sales performance.
Honestly, it could be just as shadowy as just having a CEO and Board of Trustees decide how much they want, but instead of the CEO deciding if he wants a new vacation house or joining a yacht club, the private equity firm decides if they'd like to buy a gig-economy pet-sitting operation or a floundering toll road in Paraguay.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 17, 2024, 10:28:58 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
I don't doubt there are some situations in which they buy something with the intention of using the losses to offset profits somewhere else. I'm not a tax specialist, though.
The other trick they do is take on debt to buy a business and transfer all the debt they hold to that business. Then they cut expenses to the bone to try to make their money back. If that works they can flip the business, if not they declare bankruptcy to discharge the debt. So either they kill the business or they ruin the customer and employee experience by penny-pinching, which can also kill it long-term.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
In the case of Sears/KMart, the business model their current CEO has been following has been to make money by selling the physical buildings and land Sears was located in. He makes more money that way than by operating a Sears there.
This helps Eddie out a bunch but it doesn't help
you out any.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 08:28:01 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
In the case of Sears/KMart, the business model their current CEO has been following has been to make money by selling the physical buildings and land Sears was located in. He makes more money that way than by operating a Sears there.
This helps Eddie out a bunch but it doesn't help you out any.
It doesn't help me, but it doesn't hurt me either. Sears is dying and it's real estate is its most valuable asset.
The real villain in this is the ability of firms to deduct interest expenses without a similar allowance for dividends.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 11:28:49 PMQuote from: Henry on December 13, 2024, 11:03:10 PMOf course, if you remember the glory years, the flagship franchisee was Bob's Big Boy (another favorite former haunt of mine in my Los Angeles years), with Shoney's as another major partner before splintering off into its own company.
They just opened a new Bob's Big Boy up the road from me not too long ago. Way up the road...in Indian Springs, Nevada, a little town stuck to the side of an Air Force base. Why they decided to open one there instead of in Las Vegas (which has no Big Boy locations), I have no idea.
The Big Boy restaurants in the NE Ohio area were known as Manners Big Boy until the early 80s, then became Bob's Big Boy. They have whittled their NE Ohio portfolio down to just 2 restaurants now in the Cleveland area. Just how they have kept the 2 remaining stores going for so long is a real mystery.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 08:35:10 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 08:28:01 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
In the case of Sears/KMart, the business model their current CEO has been following has been to make money by selling the physical buildings and land Sears was located in. He makes more money that way than by operating a Sears there.
This helps Eddie out a bunch but it doesn't help you out any.
It doesn't help me, but it doesn't hurt me either. Sears is dying and it's real estate is its most valuable asset.
Sears wasn't dying until Eddie started doing this, though. Eddie is the reason WHY it's dying.
That's the fundamental problem here. There are short-term profits to be made in killing off a business. And our system grossly over-values short-term gains at the expense of long-term sustainability.
Quote from: vdeane on December 17, 2024, 09:27:30 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 08:35:10 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 08:28:01 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
In the case of Sears/KMart, the business model their current CEO has been following has been to make money by selling the physical buildings and land Sears was located in. He makes more money that way than by operating a Sears there.
This helps Eddie out a bunch but it doesn't help you out any.
It doesn't help me, but it doesn't hurt me either. Sears is dying and it's real estate is its most valuable asset.
Sears wasn't dying until Eddie started doing this, though. Eddie is the reason WHY it's dying.
That's the fundamental problem here. There are short-term profits to be made in killing off a business. And our system grossly over-values short-term gains at the expense of long-term sustainability.
What? Sears has been dying since the 1990s. It's been trying to remake itself since then, but has had too much debt to do anything significant.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 09:03:19 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
I guess what they complain about are firms coming in and buying companies for the purpose of stripping them of their assets. But I don't think what people realize is that a firms assets are oftentimes more valuable that way.
Big Boy, just like similar restaurants like Perkins, are more about nostalgia than anything else. If they were offering a consistently good product that the customor likes, they would be fine. But they apparently do not.
That's too bad regarding Perkins. Been a little while since I've been to one. Liked how they were a couple notches above Denny's or IHOP.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 09:03:19 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
I guess what they complain about are firms coming in and buying companies for the purpose of stripping them of their assets. But I don't think what people realize is that a firms assets are oftentimes more valuable that way.
Big Boy, just like similar restaurants like Perkins, are more about nostalgia than anything else. If they were offering a consistently good product that the customor likes, they would be fine. But they apparently do not.
I ate at a Shoney's in Tennessee about 3-4 years ago and it seemed like the same type of situation that you described Perkins as being.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 09:38:09 PMQuote from: vdeane on December 17, 2024, 09:27:30 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 08:35:10 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 08:28:01 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
In the case of Sears/KMart, the business model their current CEO has been following has been to make money by selling the physical buildings and land Sears was located in. He makes more money that way than by operating a Sears there.
This helps Eddie out a bunch but it doesn't help you out any.
It doesn't help me, but it doesn't hurt me either. Sears is dying and it's real estate is its most valuable asset.
Sears wasn't dying until Eddie started doing this, though. Eddie is the reason WHY it's dying.
That's the fundamental problem here. There are short-term profits to be made in killing off a business. And our system grossly over-values short-term gains at the expense of long-term sustainability.
What? Sears has been dying since the 1990s. It's been trying to remake itself since then, but has had too much debt to do anything significant.
IMO you're not really "dying" if there's still a decent chance of turning things around. But then Eddie went and made everything worse.
See also Toys R Us and Red Lobster. Both chains were doing fine, but then got bought out by private equity, had essential assets sold for pennies to the firm and then leased back to them at exorbitant rates, and the resulting debt pulled them under. If corporations are people, then these firms are committing murder, and should be given all the punishments that a regular person would - life in prison and/or execution.
Quote from: vdeane on December 18, 2024, 12:41:52 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 09:38:09 PMQuote from: vdeane on December 17, 2024, 09:27:30 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 08:35:10 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 08:28:01 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 08:41:01 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2024, 02:05:24 AMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 12:35:03 AMDoing that would simply bring us back to the 60s when companies like ITT and Ling-Temco-Vought were buying up firms in fields completely unrelated to their core business.
At least conglomerates have the incentive to actually turn a profit with the businesses that they own, instead of parting them out.
Sears being a conglomerate got us things like Craftsman tools, Kenmore appliances, the Discover card and the Prodigy ISP. Sears being run by a private equity asshole got them cut down to 8 stores, said private equity asshole $2 billion, and consumers a fat lot of nothing.
I'm sorry, but how do PE firms not have an incentive to make the companies they own turn a profit?
In the case of Sears/KMart, the business model their current CEO has been following has been to make money by selling the physical buildings and land Sears was located in. He makes more money that way than by operating a Sears there.
This helps Eddie out a bunch but it doesn't help you out any.
It doesn't help me, but it doesn't hurt me either. Sears is dying and it's real estate is its most valuable asset.
Sears wasn't dying until Eddie started doing this, though. Eddie is the reason WHY it's dying.
That's the fundamental problem here. There are short-term profits to be made in killing off a business. And our system grossly over-values short-term gains at the expense of long-term sustainability.
What? Sears has been dying since the 1990s. It's been trying to remake itself since then, but has had too much debt to do anything significant.
IMO you're not really "dying" if there's still a decent chance of turning things around. But then Eddie went and made everything worse.
I don't think you understand why private equity bought Sears. It's because they were debt-ridden, no longer functioning well as stores, and the only assets they had worth anything were the brands. They had gotten to the point, especially after the acquisition of K-Mart, that they couldn't be saved.
K-Mart acquired Sears, not the other way around.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2024, 04:26:08 PMK-Mart acquired Sears, not the other way around.
Correct. I should have said "by Kmart." Thank you.
https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/map-these-are-the-frischs-big-boy-locations-that-are-still-open
Here's an update on the current status on Frisch Big Boys in the Cincinnati area.
The tax shelter industry certainly has fallen. Back in the 80s creating paper losses meant building office space, renting cars, and farming almonds.
https://www.fox19.com/2024/12/20/frischs-head-baker-41-years-other-commissary-kitchen-workers-lose-jobs-friday-before-christmas/
The company has closed its commissary (central kitchen and supply chain operations) and appears to be going out of business.
Well, that de-escalated quickly.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 20, 2024, 02:43:01 PMhttps://www.fox19.com/2024/12/20/frischs-head-baker-41-years-other-commissary-kitchen-workers-lose-jobs-friday-before-christmas/
The company has closed its commissary (central kitchen and supply chain operations) and appears to be going out of business.
He should be able to get a portion of his pension at least, if not all of it, but the dude should not be talking to the press when the agreement says not to. $2,000 is ridiculous, but it's better than $0.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2024, 03:06:37 PMbut the dude should not be talking to the press when the agreement says not to
Clauses like this should be illegal.
Quote from: hotdogPi on December 20, 2024, 03:18:04 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2024, 03:06:37 PMbut the dude should not be talking to the press when the agreement says not to
Clauses like this should be illegal.
Why? It's a contractural agreement. We will pay a portion of your PTO, even though they likely don't have to, and in response you agree to not disparage the company or talk to the media. Both are giving up something they didn't have to give up.
I will say that such separation agreements should require more than "turn it in by the end of the day" however.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2024, 03:06:37 PMHe should be able to get a portion of his pension at least, if not all of it, but the dude should not be talking to the press when the agreement says not to.
If he's already out of a job, he has every right to talk to the press.
Quote from: bandit957 on December 20, 2024, 03:25:45 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2024, 03:06:37 PMHe should be able to get a portion of his pension at least, if not all of it, but the dude should not be talking to the press when the agreement says not to.
If he's already out of a job, he has every right to talk to the press.
And they have every right not to pay his severence.
Quote from: bandit957 on December 20, 2024, 03:25:45 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2024, 03:06:37 PMHe should be able to get a portion of his pension at least, if not all of it, but the dude should not be talking to the press when the agreement says not to.
If he's already out of a job, he has every right to talk to the press.
But he is free to sign away those rights via a contract.
What a sad end to one of the most iconic restaurants in the world. The free market clearly places little value on sentimentality
Quote from: kernals12 on December 20, 2024, 04:39:36 PMWhat a sad end to one of the most iconic restaurants in the world. The free market clearly places little value on sentimentality
The bolded seems a little much...
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2024, 03:39:02 PMQuote from: bandit957 on December 20, 2024, 03:25:45 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2024, 03:06:37 PMHe should be able to get a portion of his pension at least, if not all of it, but the dude should not be talking to the press when the agreement says not to.
If he's already out of a job, he has every right to talk to the press.
And they have every right not to pay his severence.
That should be illegal. They should be required to pay out severance/PTO/etc.
regardless.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2024, 04:43:35 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 20, 2024, 04:39:36 PMWhat a sad end to one of the most iconic restaurants in the world. The free market clearly places little value on sentimentality
The bolded seems a little much...
It's iconic in the same way a local restaurant is iconic... let's be fair, Big Boy is just a bunch of local restaurants in a trench coat.
Gag agreements are one of those things that seem fair if you don't think about them much ("well he signed a contract and the company is giving something up too") but fall apart under closer scrutiny (they incentivize bad behavior from the company by eliminating a way to draw attention to it, and most of the time employees are given little latitude to negotiate them as they're presented as part of a "take or leave it" employment packet).
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 20, 2024, 11:28:06 PMGag agreements are one of those things that seem fair if you don't think about them much ("well he signed a contract and the company is giving something up too") but fall apart under closer scrutiny (they incentivize bad behavior from the company by eliminating a way to draw attention to it, and most of the time employees are given little latitude to negotiate them as they're presented as part of a "take or leave it" employment packet).
Right. They basically offer you something you wouldn't get if you quit or were fired for cause, in return for holding them harmless. I do agree that employees should be given a longer time to accept in order to explore legal options.
Quote from: vdeane on December 20, 2024, 10:33:40 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2024, 03:39:02 PMQuote from: bandit957 on December 20, 2024, 03:25:45 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2024, 03:06:37 PMHe should be able to get a portion of his pension at least, if not all of it, but the dude should not be talking to the press when the agreement says not to.
If he's already out of a job, he has every right to talk to the press.
And they have every right not to pay his severence.
That should be illegal. They should be required to pay out severance/PTO/etc. regardless.
That depends on the state and depends on how PTO is allocated.
I take the Michigan Big Boys are owned by Frisch's?
I ate at one in Charlotte, MI in 2008. That was the last time I ate at one as we have none down south anymore. I was surprised when the asked if I wanted Smoking or Non Smoking as in Florida we had smoking sections banned in restaurants for years.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 30, 2024, 11:21:39 PMI take the Michigan Big Boys are owned by Frisch's?
I ate at one in Charlotte, MI in 2008. That was the last time I ate at one as we have none down south anymore. I was surprised when the asked if I wanted Smoking or Non Smoking as in Florida we had smoking sections banned in restaurants for years.
I think the ones in Michigan are Elias Brothers rather than Frisch's.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 30, 2024, 11:21:39 PMwas surprised when the asked if I wanted Smoking or Non Smoking
That ended in 2010.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49999592437_628076e4e8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jbhYSz)Frisch's Mainliner sign (https://flic.kr/p/2jbhYSz)
Tim (Bandit) just happened to have us stop outside of here during his 2020 Cincy meet (during Covid), so I was able document this sign.
Of note, said sign has been moved to the American Sign Museum (also in Cincy) in the last week.
Shoney's still exists. With 58 locations across the Southeast. Knock me over with a feather.
In 1998 me and a vanload of kids piled out at a Shoney's on a field trip ready to chow down and there was a sign on the door: Closed. Think it happened that very morning. Our rock star teacher instead took us to IHOP.