Per CNBC (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/17/japans-honda-and-nissan-to-reportedly-begin-merger-talks.html)
It would be the biggest merger in the auto industry since Fiat Chrysler and PSA came together to form Stellantis.
Interesting. Don't know, but does the USA anti-trust crew, or for that matter the EU, Brits or Canadian, have to sign off on this? Nissan is in real trouble, and I would assume Japan would be all for anything that saves that many jobs.
Fact is we still have too many "full line" automakers competing for the same customers. If they just make a bigger Honda, then that seems a good idea, even if they maintain two dealer networks and rebadge some as Nissans.
I don't think they would have much to worry about from the American point of view. It's not like either is in a market dominant position.
Since Nissan is about to end production of the Altima, any chance that it ends up as a badge-engineered Civic in the event of a merger?
Nissan is poison. They'll just ultimately drag Honda brand down (especially regarding build quality).
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 17, 2024, 02:36:36 PMSince Nissan is about to end production of the Altima, any chance that it ends up as a badge-engineered Civic in the event of a merger?
Probably not. It's more of an Accord-sized vehicle, anyhow. But it would give them access to the Tennessee and Mississippi manufacturing facilities, which would really scare the US Big Three.
As to their US line-ups, there's not much Honda gains out of it other than the pickup/light-duty truck division, and a low-volume "halo car" in the 400Z. But it does take a slice out of Nissan's worldwide market share, which is shrinking in the US, though they gain access to Infiniti (also losing sales), and Mitsubishi (on life-support) as well. I'd imagine the limited Nissan technical partnership with Mercedes-Benz goes away the moment the ink dries on any deal.
I can't see Honda actually holding onto a third and fourth brand for long in the US, unless it's restructured in a way where trucks are {this brand} and small cars are {that brand}. It's popular to have all sorts of flavors of similar lineups in Japan, but really not necessary in the North American market.
Hopefully, Nissan's deal with JATCO is immediately rescinded the moment Honda agrees to a deal.
I wish Honda would buy Alfa Romeo and give us the ultra-reliable Italian styled automobiles we've all wanted for so long
Italian automakers have been known for reliability since when? Or are you assuming that Honda can fix those brands? I'm not convinced Honda can fix Nissan or any poor managed automotive brand. If anything they'll just pull Honda down a couple pegs.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2024, 03:26:43 PMItalian automakers have been known for reliability since when?
Never. I'm saying it would improve if a Japanese automaker took over.
Tesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.
Nissan and Stellantis are struggling because they both suck.
Nissan went for outright cheapness to undercut their rival automakers on price. The problem is that everyone figured out how bad the brand's quality control level has gotten. Being meme worthy via Big Altima Energy isn't helping.
Stellantis is struggling to find a direction. The company clearly doesn't have a good grasp on what the American market wants nor wants input from anyone state side. How the Chrysler brands are being handled right now is giving me vibes from the Daimler-Chrysler merger.
Speaking of Stellantis, who the fuck is the intended buyer for the Dodge Hornet? The commercials seemed to indicate it was for intended for LX car owners. I couldn't think of a more different vehicle.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 17, 2024, 02:07:53 PMInteresting. Don't know, but does the USA anti-trust crew have to sign off on this?
It would most likely be allowed. (Oversimplification) based on the respective US market shares, the increase to the Herfindahl index would be about 72 points. The general guideline for the DOJ/FTC is a 100-point increase, anything more than that is scrutinized.
I know I'm echoing similar sentiments, but why the hell would Honda want to do this? Nissan is a Japanese company with American quality, with certain problems like their terrible CVTs now lasting for decades.
It makes me concerned as a potential Honda buyer in the near future that the Nissan rot would start infiltrating them.
I've shopped Honda a couple times in recent car purchases. They aren't even going to be on my list if they get in bed with Nissan.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 03:44:06 PMTesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.
Tesla? Hardly. Not even a top ten automaker. Mostly it's the rise of Hyundai and Chinese automakers.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 07:37:37 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 03:44:06 PMTesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.
Tesla? Hardly. Not even a top ten automaker. Mostly it's the rise of Hyundai and Chinese automakers.
Nissan even tried to jump on the EV game early. They built subpar products and quickly got surpassed by the other volume automakers in the same demographic.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2024, 07:39:55 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 07:37:37 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 03:44:06 PMTesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.
Tesla? Hardly. Not even a top ten automaker. Mostly it's the rise of Hyundai and Chinese automakers.
Nissan even tried to jump on the EV game early. They built subpar products and quickly got surpassed by the other volume automakers in the same demographic.
What do you mean "we need to liquid cool the battery"?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2024, 03:51:22 PMNissan and Stellantis are struggling because they both suck.
Stellantis is struggling to find a direction. The company clearly doesn't have a good grasp on what the American market wants nor wants input from anyone state side. How the Chrysler brands are being handled right now is giving me vibes from the Daimler-Chrysler merger.
Speaking of Stellantis, who the fuck is the intended buyer for the Dodge Hornet? The commercials seemed to indicate it was for intended for LX car owners. I couldn't think of a more different vehicle.
Agreed. Nissan lost the plot sometime in the 2000s, and the former Chrysler Corp. has been going downhill ever since Daimler. FiatChrysler was pretty terrible as well and didn't do much for the American Brands. The Durango is old as dirt, the LX cars dated back to the 2000s and used recycled Mercedes parts, and the Hornet is.. yeah. I don't think the Hornet is absolutely putrid (Hello Journey), but in no universe should it be only half of Dodge's lineup. Honestly, the new Charger's aren't terrible looking and I think the I-6 could be worth something.
I think that some of Nissan's more modern products have been solid though, such as the G, QX60/80, Q60, Pathfinder, Armada, Xterra, and Frontier.
Agree with Max regarding Nissan. Doesn't see to make much sense for Honda to buy them, when their quality has taken a nosedive.
I'm certainly leaving Nissan after having bought three of their vehicles over time.
I see this going nowhere, just like the proposed GM-Chrysler merger from a few years back (and I, for one, am glad that didn't happen). There's also no way that Honda is getting rid of Acura, so that means the death of Infiniti if something shocking happens (IOW, the takeover gets approved). Despite their own negative press, Toyota and Lexus have long ruled the Japanese market, and the gap is getting wider every day; don't expect that to change anytime soon.
Quote from: kenarmy on December 17, 2024, 09:58:08 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 17, 2024, 03:51:22 PMNissan and Stellantis are struggling because they both suck.
Stellantis is struggling to find a direction. The company clearly doesn't have a good grasp on what the American market wants nor wants input from anyone state side. How the Chrysler brands are being handled right now is giving me vibes from the Daimler-Chrysler merger.
Speaking of Stellantis, who the fuck is the intended buyer for the Dodge Hornet? The commercials seemed to indicate it was for intended for LX car owners. I couldn't think of a more different vehicle.
Agreed. Nissan lost the plot sometime in the 2000s, and the former Chrysler Corp. has been going downhill ever since Daimler. FiatChrysler was pretty terrible as well and didn't do much for the American Brands. The Durango is old as dirt, the LX cars dated back to the 2000s and used recycled Mercedes parts, and the Hornet is.. yeah. I don't think the Hornet is absolutely putrid (Hello Journey), but in no universe should it be only half of Dodge's lineup. Honestly, the new Charger's aren't terrible looking and I think the I-6 could be worth something.
I think that some of Nissan's more modern products have been solid though, such as the G, QX60/80, Q60, Pathfinder, Armada, Xterra, and Frontier.
The problem with the new Charger is that it just isn't going to please a lot of former LX car buyers (speaking as one myself). Part of the appeal was having the option for a big, dumb and affordable V8 car. Stellantis for right or wrong doesn't seem to be able really reaching the V8 LX car owners. A turbo I6 just doesn't seem right.
The new Charger looks great, can't say I'm interested in it personally without a V8. Right now the Mustang is the only semi-affordable Pony Car or really anything "kind of cheap" with a V8. The price of a new GT is on the high side, but it isn't as though Ford has competition.
Not that I'm suggesting that wrapping the entire Dodge brand in the LX car and Hemi identity was a good idea. Getting away from brand diversity was a horrible idea given the writing for emissions was on the wall even a decade ago. Fiat-Chrysler just gave up on making quality economical cars when the Neon failed. They probably should have been focusing on a small CUV but I suspect the stain the Caliber didn't make the idea endearing.
Ugh, the Caliber was horrible. Rented one once and it was a poor experience I will never forget.
Doug visited me a couple years ago in a rental Dodge Journey. He apparently had to drive that POS on CA 49 in the Merced River Canyon. We opted to take my Impreza to Generals Highway.
Quote from: Henry on December 17, 2024, 10:24:35 PMI see this going nowhere, just like the proposed GM-Chrysler merger from a few years back (and I, for one, am glad that didn't happen). There's also no way that Honda is getting rid of Acura, so that means the death of Infiniti if something shocking happens (IOW, the takeover gets approved). Despite their own negative press, Toyota and Lexus have long ruled the Japanese market, and the gap is getting wider every day; don't expect that to change anytime soon.
It helps that Toyota is both the largest automaker in the world and the largest Japanese company period, and of the Japanese automakers has been established internationally for the longest time. Toyota was already a known commodity in the US by the time Honda even built its first car.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 07:37:37 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 03:44:06 PMTesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.
Tesla? Hardly. Not even a top ten automaker. Mostly it's the rise of Hyundai and Chinese automakers.
Disagree. I've said before that every tenth car I see in DFW is a Tesla. That will only increase as long as Trump and Musk stay kissy-kissy. But I won't be in the market for one until they come out with a real pickup truck.
Not sure how I feel about this. I'm old enough to remember when Nissan was a reliable brand before they went to crap in the 2000s. As a longtime Honda owner, I really hope the quality doesn't go down as a result.
Quote from: Road Hog on December 18, 2024, 01:53:04 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on December 17, 2024, 07:37:37 PMQuote from: kernals12 on December 17, 2024, 03:44:06 PMTesla's growth is really taking its toll on legacy automakers. We've got Nissan, Stellantis, and Volkswagen struggling.
Tesla? Hardly. Not even a top ten automaker. Mostly it's the rise of Hyundai and Chinese automakers.
Disagree. I've said before that every tenth car I see in DFW is a Tesla. That will only increase as long as Trump and Musk stay kissy-kissy. But I won't be in the market for one until they come out with a real pickup truck.
I think sales figures outweigh personal observation.
Tesla only seems to be doing well in big urban markets where luxury cars tend to sell best.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2024, 09:05:30 AMTesla only seems to be doing well in big urban markets where luxury cars tend to sell best.
I'm not entirely sure about this.
https://chargehub.com/map/#/en/map shows a map of charging stations. If you look at each state's percentage of chargers that are Tesla by eyeballing it, New Hampshire is higher than Massachusetts. New York City is also low. I'm also looking at the area that was previously talked about (Dallas), and West Texas has a higher proportion than the DFW area. Also SLC/Ogden/Provo (low) versus the southern half of Utah (high).
I know chargers are not cars sold, but there should be a correlation.
Quote from: Road Hog on December 18, 2024, 01:53:04 AMDisagree. I've said before that every tenth car I see in DFW is a Tesla. That will only increase as long as Trump and Musk stay kissy-kissy. But I won't be in the market for one until they come out with a real pickup truck.
Around here, Tesla only just graduated from being rare enough that seeing one was remarkable a couple of years ago.
Quote from: vdeane on December 18, 2024, 12:45:40 PMQuote from: Road Hog on December 18, 2024, 01:53:04 AMDisagree. I've said before that every tenth car I see in DFW is a Tesla. That will only increase as long as Trump and Musk stay kissy-kissy. But I won't be in the market for one until they come out with a real pickup truck.
Around here, Tesla only just graduated from being rare enough that seeing one was remarkable a couple of years ago.
Tesla cars are all over Colorado, due to all the granola-eating, vegetarian tree-huggers who reside here, as they rank up there with the Audis, Volvos, Lexus, etc... that are status symbols to denote wealth.
Take a drive up CO-82 between Glenwood and Aspen and see how quickly the luxury cars dominate the highway versus economy and mid-size cars.
Quote from: hotdogPi on December 18, 2024, 09:11:21 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2024, 09:05:30 AMTesla only seems to be doing well in big urban markets where luxury cars tend to sell best.
I'm not entirely sure about this.
https://chargehub.com/map/#/en/map shows a map of charging stations. If you look at each state's percentage of chargers that are Tesla by eyeballing it, New Hampshire is higher than Massachusetts. New York City is also low. I'm also looking at the area that was previously talked about (Dallas), and West Texas has a higher proportion than the DFW area. Also SLC/Ogden/Provo (low) versus the southern half of Utah (high).
I know chargers are not cars sold, but there should be a correlation.
Speaking for strictly the eyeball test they are a rare sight away from CA 99 around me. Occasionally I'll see one around a National Park but not so much in the rest of the Sierra Nevada foothills or the farm boons.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 17, 2024, 02:07:53 PMInteresting. Don't know, but does the USA anti-trust crew, or for that matter the EU, Brits or Canadian, have to sign off on this? Nissan is in real trouble, and I would assume Japan would be all for anything that saves that many jobs.
Fact is we still have too many "full line" automakers competing for the same customers. If they just make a bigger Honda, then that seems a good idea, even if they maintain two dealer networks and rebadge some as Nissans.
Skepticism of large industrial concerns isn't as present in Japan, with all its Kereitsu groups.
I was reading some comments on Reddit that suggest that this merger was basically the Japanese government asking Honda to bail out Nissan. If so, I think it's safe to call it a done deal.
Will the combined company be called Ninda or Honsan?
Generally speaking, the lack of diversity in the auto market is disappointing. If someone was trying to get a new, bare bones economy car on the cheap, their only choices are the Mitsubishi Mirage or the Nissan Versa.
Secondly, the prices are still inflated, whether it be from inflation, or automakers using the post-pandemic inflation as an excuse. When I went car shopping earlier this year, I found a better selection in the used car market in the price (monthly payments) I was looking for. When I bought my previous car, a 2007 Corolla with 132,000 miles, the price was somewhere around $8,000, this was 10 years ago. I bought a 2015 Avalon with 85,000 miles this year for $15,000.
It also feels like automakers are trying to market their cars as high-end luxury, but if they insist that a Nissan or Toyota is worth a luxury price tag then they are going to keep losing customers. Especially when those vehicles are mechanically subpar for the price.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2024, 09:35:13 PMWill the combined company be called Ninda or Honsan?
This is the 21st century. Everyone knows you're supposed to give your company a name that is completely arbitrary and nonsensical.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2024, 09:47:28 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2024, 09:35:13 PMWill the combined company be called Ninda or Honsan?
This is the 21st century. Everyone knows you're supposed to give your company a name that is completely arbitrary and nonsensical.
Alanland Motor Co. it is then.
Quote from: kernals12 on December 18, 2024, 08:54:39 PMQuote from: SP Cook on December 17, 2024, 02:07:53 PMInteresting. Don't know, but does the USA anti-trust crew, or for that matter the EU, Brits or Canadian, have to sign off on this? Nissan is in real trouble, and I would assume Japan would be all for anything that saves that many jobs.
Fact is we still have too many "full line" automakers competing for the same customers. If they just make a bigger Honda, then that seems a good idea, even if they maintain two dealer networks and rebadge some as Nissans.
Skepticism of large industrial concerns isn't as present in Japan, with all its Kereitsu groups.
The 1990s called. They want their thread post back.
Wait, so is SP wanting less "full line" automakers? How exactly is that going to lead to anything but a bunch of uncompetitive lower tier market segments?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2024, 11:03:13 PMWait, so is SP wanting less "full line" automakers? How exactly is that going to lead to anything but a bunch of uncompetitive lower tier market segments?
Aren't we all dreaming of an automaker that will sell you an oil pan, two pistons, three wheel wells, a right headlight, a catalytic converter, a rear-view mirror, one windshield wiper, a timing belt, and a seat with no back and then when you complain that the car doesn't work, they tell you it's the free market and you can go fuck yourself?
Couple of thoughts.
The only thing Honda would realistically want with Nissan in the US is their intellectual property and physical plant. I could easily see them continuing the Nissan brand in developing markets, especially China. They could do what GM is doing with Buick.
The auto industry is a trickle-down economy, now. People who can't afford a new car or want a car at least cost and with minimal features will simply have to purchase on the used market. It's hard for me to see the value in paying >$25k for a new car, as someone who falls into the least cost/minimal features category. Growing up in the 90s and 00s, I've never seen cars as anything more than basic transportation machines.
Toyota is the biggest player in the import market, and some years, the largest automaker worldwide in terms of sales (though some years, the Volkswagen Group is larger). Toyota has also created joint-ventures with Subaru and Mazda.
While Honda is pretty strong on its own, I can't help but feel they want to just pick up more market share. The one thing Nissan is ahead of the curve compared the other Japanese manufacturers is electric vehicles, although still a long way back from being dominant. Honda has a handful of small electric cars, but none destined for the US market, until they joined with GM on the Blazer EV (sold as the Honda Prologue). After that, I can't see too much that they need out of the deal other than manufacturing facilities.
I highly doubt they will rename Honda and probably not Nissan (unless it's just folded and made defunct into one company). The former is a proud last name, after all.
GM and Toyota flirted in the 1980s and I remember seeing a lot of blatantly racist wedding political cartoons.
Quote from: Road Hog on December 19, 2024, 07:37:47 PMGM and Toyota flirted in the 1980s and I remember seeing a lot of blatantly racist wedding political cartoons.
Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe being the last joint venture.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 19, 2024, 01:28:12 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2024, 11:03:13 PMWait, so is SP wanting less "full line" automakers? How exactly is that going to lead to anything but a bunch of uncompetitive lower tier market segments?
Aren't we all dreaming of an automaker that will sell you an oil pan, two pistons, three wheel wells, a right headlight, a catalytic converter, a rear-view mirror, one windshield wiper, a timing belt, and a seat with no back and then when you complain that the car doesn't work, they tell you it's the free market and you can go fuck yourself?
I mean honestly it is hard to go down to Mexico and see the diverse assortment of "cheap by U.S. standards new cars." A healthy Nissan at least could potentially contribute some decent entry level segment vehicles. Pretty much everyone but Toyota and Honda are the only viable options for several traditional small car segments right now. Nissan in theory could be that, but their brand is so tainted that it isn't likely plausible near term.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 19, 2024, 09:09:56 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 19, 2024, 01:28:12 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2024, 11:03:13 PMWait, so is SP wanting less "full line" automakers? How exactly is that going to lead to anything but a bunch of uncompetitive lower tier market segments?
Aren't we all dreaming of an automaker that will sell you an oil pan, two pistons, three wheel wells, a right headlight, a catalytic converter, a rear-view mirror, one windshield wiper, a timing belt, and a seat with no back and then when you complain that the car doesn't work, they tell you it's the free market and you can go fuck yourself?
I mean honestly it is hard to go down to Mexico and see the diverse assortment of "cheap by U.S. standards new cars." A healthy Nissan at least could potentially contribute some decent entry level segment vehicles. Pretty much everyone but Toyota and Honda are the only viable options for several traditional small car segments right now. Nissan in theory could be that, but their brand is so tainted that it isn't likely plausible near term.
I would love it if a manufacturer built a car that met all FMVSS requirements and nothing else.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on December 19, 2024, 09:23:56 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 19, 2024, 09:09:56 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 19, 2024, 01:28:12 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2024, 11:03:13 PMWait, so is SP wanting less "full line" automakers? How exactly is that going to lead to anything but a bunch of uncompetitive lower tier market segments?
Aren't we all dreaming of an automaker that will sell you an oil pan, two pistons, three wheel wells, a right headlight, a catalytic converter, a rear-view mirror, one windshield wiper, a timing belt, and a seat with no back and then when you complain that the car doesn't work, they tell you it's the free market and you can go fuck yourself?
I mean honestly it is hard to go down to Mexico and see the diverse assortment of "cheap by U.S. standards new cars." A healthy Nissan at least could potentially contribute some decent entry level segment vehicles. Pretty much everyone but Toyota and Honda are the only viable options for several traditional small car segments right now. Nissan in theory could be that, but their brand is so tainted that it isn't likely plausible near term.
I would love it if a manufacturer built a car that met all FMVSS requirements and nothing else.
I would also. Trouble is no manufacturer seems to have ever been make a profit doing bare bones American cars.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 19, 2024, 09:09:56 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 19, 2024, 01:28:12 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2024, 11:03:13 PMWait, so is SP wanting less "full line" automakers? How exactly is that going to lead to anything but a bunch of uncompetitive lower tier market segments?
Aren't we all dreaming of an automaker that will sell you an oil pan, two pistons, three wheel wells, a right headlight, a catalytic converter, a rear-view mirror, one windshield wiper, a timing belt, and a seat with no back and then when you complain that the car doesn't work, they tell you it's the free market and you can go fuck yourself?
I mean honestly it is hard to go down to Mexico and see the diverse assortment of "cheap by U.S. standards new cars." A healthy Nissan at least could potentially contribute some decent entry level segment vehicles. Pretty much everyone but Toyota and Honda are the only viable options for several traditional small car segments right now. Nissan in theory could be that, but their brand is so tainted that it isn't likely plausible near term.
Honda and Toyota both have cars that fit the bill themselves in other markets with the respective Fit and Yaris (among others), but they both stopped selling said cars in the US after their previous generations due to lack of demand. (Honda marches to the beat of its own drum and steadfastly refused to make a performance-oriented Fit, but the lack of Yaris in the US is what prompted Toyota to make the GR Corolla.) The Civic is actually the
largest car Honda sells in some markets.
With that said, I could see Honda possibly making its own versions of Nissan's larger trucks and SUVs such as the Frontier and Patrol/Armada...if they really wanted to. But they march to their own drum.
Quote from: Takumi on December 20, 2024, 06:41:48 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 19, 2024, 09:09:56 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on December 19, 2024, 01:28:12 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on December 18, 2024, 11:03:13 PMWait, so is SP wanting less "full line" automakers? How exactly is that going to lead to anything but a bunch of uncompetitive lower tier market segments?
Aren't we all dreaming of an automaker that will sell you an oil pan, two pistons, three wheel wells, a right headlight, a catalytic converter, a rear-view mirror, one windshield wiper, a timing belt, and a seat with no back and then when you complain that the car doesn't work, they tell you it's the free market and you can go fuck yourself?
I mean honestly it is hard to go down to Mexico and see the diverse assortment of "cheap by U.S. standards new cars." A healthy Nissan at least could potentially contribute some decent entry level segment vehicles. Pretty much everyone but Toyota and Honda are the only viable options for several traditional small car segments right now. Nissan in theory could be that, but their brand is so tainted that it isn't likely plausible near term.
Honda and Toyota both have cars that fit the bill themselves in other markets with the respective Fit and Yaris (among others), but they both stopped selling said cars in the US after their previous generations due to lack of demand. (Honda marches to the beat of its own drum and steadfastly refused to make a performance-oriented Fit, but the lack of Yaris in the US is what prompted Toyota to make the GR Corolla.) The Civic is actually the largest car Honda sells in some markets.
With that said, I could see Honda possibly making its own versions of Nissan's larger trucks and SUVs such as the Frontier and Patrol/Armada...if they really wanted to. But they march to their own drum.
I mean hey, I just bought a new Corolla. All the same, I'm a previous Sonic and Fiesta buyer (I once had GM and Ford family discounts). The Fit and Yaris would have certainly been on my list if they were available.
Worth noting, as shitty as my old Sonic was I never gave serious consideration to the Versa. That probably speaks to my opinion or Nissan being quite low for a great deal of time. That Fiesta wasn't a comfortable car, but it was pretty damn reliable.
I am looking for a used non-hybrid/non EV car that's 1-2 years old because I would barely drive it (due to driving a company vehicle for work) and have been looking at auto reviews and overall ratings from reputable sources.
From what I have seen, there seems to be a concensus that some of the lower end Nissan vehicles (priced < $30,000) in recent years usually rank as pretty decent cars overall compared to similar body types -- usually in the 7-8 out of 10 rating -- with several other car companies ranking below them.
What am I missing here? I haven't heard many negative comments about the quality and reliability of the more recent Nissans, as all of the competing similar models have their share of shortcomings as well in the same categories.
Quote from: thenetwork on December 20, 2024, 09:05:02 PMI am looking for a used non-hybrid/non EV car that's 1-2 years old because I would barely drive it (due to driving a company vehicle for work) and have been looking at auto reviews and overall ratings from reputable sources.
From what I have seen, there seems to be a concensus that some of the lower end Nissan vehicles (priced < $30,000) in recent years usually rank as pretty decent cars overall compared to similar body types -- usually in the 7-8 out of 10 rating -- with several other car companies ranking below them.
What am I missing here? I haven't heard many negative comments about the quality and reliability of the more recent Nissans, as all of the competing similar models have their share of shortcomings as well in the same categories.
The Nissan CVT is a cheap rubber band waiting to explode. Avoid Big Altima Energy and pay a little more for something like a Toyota or Honda. You'll save way more on the back side with maintenance. Those Nissans are probably on the used car market near the end of the powertrain warranty awaiting someone foolish enough to lured in by low up front prices.
Right now the Nissan brand is getting raked much like Malaise era GM. Trouble is nowadays people won't stay loyal to a cheap and faltering brand like they did in the 1980s.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 20, 2024, 09:18:10 PMQuote from: thenetwork on December 20, 2024, 09:05:02 PMI am looking for a used non-hybrid/non EV car that's 1-2 years old because I would barely drive it (due to driving a company vehicle for work) and have been looking at auto reviews and overall ratings from reputable sources.
From what I have seen, there seems to be a concensus that some of the lower end Nissan vehicles (priced < $30,000) in recent years usually rank as pretty decent cars overall compared to similar body types -- usually in the 7-8 out of 10 rating -- with several other car companies ranking below them.
What am I missing here? I haven't heard many negative comments about the quality and reliability of the more recent Nissans, as all of the competing similar models have their share of shortcomings as well in the same categories.
The Nissan CVT is a cheap rubber band waiting to explode. Avoid Big Altima Energy and pay a little more for something like a Toyota or Honda. You'll save way more on the back side with maintenance. Those Nissans are probably on the used car market awaiting someone foolish enough to lured in by low prices.
You will not scare people away from buying my traded-in Rogue! (even if what you're saying is true) >:[
Looks like it's official...
https://www.kjct8.com/2024/12/23/honda-nissan-announce-plans-join-forces-forming-worlds-third-largest-automaker-by-sales/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2mg4HdPYr5bpVZ_6wZ3ooW0B7vfbyXDgRGwQfTp__ihJcQLwXPRijRsJA_aem_yaNCsFdd-U3BGIRVRw3LEQ
And it looks like Mitsubishi wants to join the club as well, though that part is not set in stone yet.
I hope that their product is more like Honda than Nissan
Just to give everyone an example of the ideal car that I would drive, when I mean I prefer "bare bones"
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/1df67510-99f9-4d72-b735-e0120823df67/ (https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/1df67510-99f9-4d72-b735-e0120823df67/)
Infotainment, drive assist features, automatic transmission and power windows be damned. I don't even know if the Corolla CEs from this generation came standard with ABS.
This one is a close second:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/90626f12-ca2a-4a85-af45-4de31425ac25/ (https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/90626f12-ca2a-4a85-af45-4de31425ac25/)
Side complaint from this story, every media outlet reaching out to fleeing felon-in-waiting Carlos Ghosn, the former CEO of Nissan. I feel some fawn all over this guy for destroying an already mediocre company and then fleeing Japan in a trunk when he got indicted for financial fraud.
Doesn't help that Netflix and Apple TV glorified him too.
Quote from: thenetwork on December 23, 2024, 11:36:43 AMLooks like it's official...
https://www.kjct8.com/2024/12/23/honda-nissan-announce-plans-join-forces-forming-worlds-third-largest-automaker-by-sales/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2mg4HdPYr5bpVZ_6wZ3ooW0B7vfbyXDgRGwQfTp__ihJcQLwXPRijRsJA_aem_yaNCsFdd-U3BGIRVRw3LEQ
And it looks like Mitsubishi wants to join the club as well, though that part is not set in stone yet.
Mitsubishi is already 34% owned by Nissan, so not that surprising
Quote from: SectorZ on December 23, 2024, 12:34:56 PMSide complaint from this story, every media outlet reaching out to fleeing felon-in-waiting Carlos Ghosn, the former CEO of Nissan. I feel some fawn all over this guy for destroying an already mediocre company and then fleeing Japan in a trunk when he got indicted for financial fraud.
Doesn't help that Netflix and Apple TV glorified him too.
(https://i.imgur.com/dVgLwvX.png)
It's hard to say he "destroyed" the company when you look at their US market share
Quote from: kernals12 on December 23, 2024, 01:22:19 PMQuote from: SectorZ on December 23, 2024, 12:34:56 PMSide complaint from this story, every media outlet reaching out to fleeing felon-in-waiting Carlos Ghosn, the former CEO of Nissan. I feel some fawn all over this guy for destroying an already mediocre company and then fleeing Japan in a trunk when he got indicted for financial fraud.
Doesn't help that Netflix and Apple TV glorified him too.
(https://i.imgur.com/dVgLwvX.png)
It's hard to say he "destroyed" the company when you look at their US market share
Where is Subaru on this list?
I see the merger going the way of DaimlerChrysler a couple of decades back: a good idea on paper that was very poorly executed.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on December 23, 2024, 12:32:51 PMwhen I mean I prefer "bare bones"
A Yugo?
Quote from: Henry on December 23, 2024, 02:13:49 PMI see the merger going the way of DaimlerChrysler a couple of decades back
You mean it's really a take-over?
Q: "How do you pronounce 'DaimlerChrysler'?"
A: "'Daimler'. The 'Chrysler' is silent."
Quote from: kernals12 on December 23, 2024, 01:22:19 PMQuote from: SectorZ on December 23, 2024, 12:34:56 PMSide complaint from this story, every media outlet reaching out to fleeing felon-in-waiting Carlos Ghosn, the former CEO of Nissan. I feel some fawn all over this guy for destroying an already mediocre company and then fleeing Japan in a trunk when he got indicted for financial fraud.
Doesn't help that Netflix and Apple TV glorified him too.
(https://i.imgur.com/dVgLwvX.png)
It's hard to say he "destroyed" the company when you look at their US market share
Their cars are pieces of shit. Just because people buy them doesn't change my mind.
Regular Car Reviews had a video on the Nissan financial situation today:
If this deal goes through, the goal must be to make Nissan more like Honda, not Honda more like Nissan.
More likely some middle ground of the two. Maybe that means a better Nissan product, but probably also a worse Honda.
Realistically, I don't think much will change in the west with these brands. Maybe the next Ridgeline becomes a rebadged Frontier instead of a Pilot with a bed, and maybe Infiniti folds with the QX80 becoming a new Acura SLX. Otherwise the most likely things we'll see are Honda versions of the Leaf and Ariya.
I will never forgive Nissan if they scuttle this pair of models Honda unveiled today at CES (https://i.imgur.com/QSVP19P.jpeg)
Honda planning making a door stopper on wheels?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2025, 08:51:31 PMHonda planning making a door stopper on wheels?
This proves you just like disagreeing with me.
Quote from: kernals12 on January 07, 2025, 08:20:08 PMI will never forgive Nissan if they scuttle this pair of models Honda unveiled today at CES (https://i.imgur.com/QSVP19P.jpeg)
Yuck. Even the Cybertruck looks better.
Quote from: vdeane on January 07, 2025, 08:55:54 PMQuote from: kernals12 on January 07, 2025, 08:20:08 PMI will never forgive Nissan if they scuttle this pair of models Honda unveiled today at CES (https://i.imgur.com/QSVP19P.jpeg)
Yuck. Even the Cybertruck looks better.
0 Series is quite name appropriate:
https://www.pcmag.com/news/honda-debuts-0-series-evs-with-new-ai-chip-level-3-self-driving-ces-2025
Quote from: kernals12 on January 07, 2025, 08:55:02 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2025, 08:51:31 PMHonda planning making a door stopper on wheels?
This proves you just like disagreeing with me.
Nah. Just proves you have no taste. :D
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2025, 10:11:13 PMQuote from: kernals12 on January 07, 2025, 08:55:02 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2025, 08:51:31 PMHonda planning making a door stopper on wheels?
This proves you just like disagreeing with me.
Nah. Just proves you have no taste. :D
Apparently so do most automotive journalists
Who said mainstream automotive journalists have taste? All the big publications have been in decline most of this century.
The Series 0 will also be equipped with an AI chipset capable of Level 3 autonomy. With that aerodynamic shape, it will be well suited to cruising at 150 mph on the automated superfreeways of tomorrow :bigass:
Tell me guys, do you think this car is also ugly? (https://i.imgur.com/YKCpne9.jpeg)
High end super cars aren't my bag. Give me something RMR like an early MR2 or Fiero that I can modify to my liking.
Either look like the driver is compensating for a very small penis.
Some of those angles on the Honda 0 Series look interesting, but when positioned at other angles, it looks to be designed by committee. Sometimes things have to been in person to be appreciated (or look less impressive without studio lighting and professional photographers).
Most concept cars rarely appear in the exact same guise when production begins, due to manufacturing processes, engineering realities, safety requirements, supply chain promises, and accounting departments all having their say between the artist's dreams and showroom availability.
Automotive journalists also liked the Pontiac Aztec concept car in 1999.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/how-the-pontiac-aztek-became-the-pontiac-aztek/
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 08, 2025, 07:57:29 AMAutomotive journalists also liked the Pontiac Aztec concept car in 1999.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/how-the-pontiac-aztek-became-the-pontiac-aztek/
I believe Dan Neil called it an "irradiated tadpole."
Quote from: LilianaUwU on January 08, 2025, 12:25:33 AMEither look like the driver is compensating for a very small penis.
Nah, that's what those jumbo 2-ton pickup trucks with dually rear wheels are for...
And to prove it, see how gingerly and slowly they will go over speed bumps with their big truck in a parking lot!
The Series 0 has another notable feature: first production car with hidden headlights since the 2004 Chevrolet Corvette
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2025, 09:01:52 PMQuote from: vdeane on January 07, 2025, 08:55:54 PMQuote from: kernals12 on January 07, 2025, 08:20:08 PMI will never forgive Nissan if they scuttle this pair of models Honda unveiled today at CES (https://i.imgur.com/QSVP19P.jpeg)
Yuck. Even the Cybertruck looks better.
0 Series is quite name appropriate:
https://www.pcmag.com/news/honda-debuts-0-series-evs-with-new-ai-chip-level-3-self-driving-ces-2025
Finally hit me where I have seen this design aesthetic today (the GM Dustbuster vans):
https://www.autoblog.com/features/junkyard-gem-1990-chevrolet-lumina-apv
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2025, 07:29:12 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on January 07, 2025, 09:01:52 PMQuote from: vdeane on January 07, 2025, 08:55:54 PMQuote from: kernals12 on January 07, 2025, 08:20:08 PMI will never forgive Nissan if they scuttle this pair of models Honda unveiled today at CES (https://i.imgur.com/QSVP19P.jpeg)
Yuck. Even the Cybertruck looks better.
0 Series is quite name appropriate:
https://www.pcmag.com/news/honda-debuts-0-series-evs-with-new-ai-chip-level-3-self-driving-ces-2025
Finally hit me where I have seen this design aesthetic today (the GM Dustbuster vans):
https://www.autoblog.com/features/junkyard-gem-1990-chevrolet-lumina-apv
Except this is low and sleek and very attractive
Honestly, the hatchback doesn't look bad. Don't really like that SUV/crossover in the back.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on January 15, 2025, 12:59:47 PMHonestly, the hatchback doesn't look bad. Don't really like that SUV/crossover in the back.
But I think we all know which one will sell better.
Both are wretched enough to sell horribly. Perhaps that lead to some heavy MSRP sticker discounts for someone looking for a dealership bargain?
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on December 23, 2024, 12:32:51 PMJust to give everyone an example of the ideal car that I would drive, when I mean I prefer "bare bones"
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/1df67510-99f9-4d72-b735-e0120823df67/ (https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/1df67510-99f9-4d72-b735-e0120823df67/)
Infotainment, drive assist features, automatic transmission and power windows be damned. I don't even know if the Corolla CEs from this generation came standard with ABS.
This one is a close second:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/90626f12-ca2a-4a85-af45-4de31425ac25/ (https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/90626f12-ca2a-4a85-af45-4de31425ac25/)
Currently and for the foreseeable future, the only car in our household that runs is a 2002 Ford Focus. Manual transmission, no ABS. It does have automatic windows, though.
Eventually, I'll have to teach my wife how to drive stick...
Sometimes I forget that my wife hangs onto a 2009 Corolla by storing it over at her dad's. Having something simple and reliable comes in handy with a fair amount of frequency.
I saw a recent article that Honda wants Nissan more for their larger vehicle models and trucks, since Honda has focused more with the small and mid-sized vehicles. Plus, if they share their technologies, that will save both of them money.
"In theory." I'm surprised at how people seem to think this will go smoothly when so many big automaker mergers don't.
Quote from: thenetwork on January 15, 2025, 03:58:11 PMPlus, if they share their technologies, that will save both of them money.
If they share their technologies, it will bring Honda's quality down. I liked Honda because they're more reliable than anyone else and they're slow to adopt many of the trends I hate (sadly, they're not avoiding them completely). It sounds like I'm going to have to keep my 2014 Civic until the day I die, the way the car industry is going.
The near-term future of the automotive world feels pretty bleak to me. Companies are chasing pretty only high margin vehicles of questionable build quality. Certain government bodies are pushing timelines for PHEV adoption which don't likely line up with reality. It isn't quite the Malaise Era, but it isn't great either.
As an aside, I told my 2019 Impreza to a family member who really needed a car. Part of me is wondering if I made a mistake not clinging to a cheap but otherwise reliable vehicle. I'll probably feel better once the Forester is moved to a reserve role once my wife gets a new daily driver.
I'm planning to get a late model small truck, either a Frontier or Tacoma, next year, with my wife going to daily driving my Acura TL, and then sticking with that fleet for the foreseeable future.
Apparently, Nissan is now backing out of the Honda merger...
Nissan Wants to Replace Honda With a Different Partner: Report https://search.app/TsdgYZfzvrtbe2u9A
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2025, 09:31:20 PMApparently, Nissan is now backing out of the Honda merger...
Nissan Wants to Replace Honda With a Different Partner: Report https://search.app/TsdgYZfzvrtbe2u9A
Cold feet at the altar.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2025, 09:31:20 PMApparently, Nissan is now backing out of the Honda merger...
Nissan Wants to Replace Honda With a Different Partner: Report https://search.app/TsdgYZfzvrtbe2u9A
It didn't come to an accord. :awesomeface:
Quote from: Big John on February 07, 2025, 10:42:15 PMQuote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2025, 09:31:20 PMApparently, Nissan is now backing out of the Honda merger...
Nissan Wants to Replace Honda With a Different Partner: Report https://search.app/TsdgYZfzvrtbe2u9A
It didn't come to an accord. :awesomeface:
And so ends the latest stanza on this saga...
Quote from: Henry on February 07, 2025, 11:09:08 PMQuote from: Big John on February 07, 2025, 10:42:15 PMQuote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2025, 09:31:20 PMApparently, Nissan is now backing out of the Honda merger...
Nissan Wants to Replace Honda With a Different Partner: Report https://search.app/TsdgYZfzvrtbe2u9A
It didn't come to an accord. :awesomeface:
And so ends the latest stanza on this saga...
We seem to be far beyond the Prologue to this story...
Let's hope they can Pilot this ship to shore.
I hope this experience Inspired Honda to pick a more reliable Partner.
The Nissan board obviously thinks they can get their Kicks with someone else.
It would be Acura to say that Honda didn't think Nissan was a good Fit for them
Nissan went Rogue in negotiations.
Nissan seems they can find the Bluebird of happinesss elsewhere.
Mitsubishi must be open wondering if they can Figure Things Out.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 07, 2025, 11:15:45 PMQuote from: Henry on February 07, 2025, 11:09:08 PMQuote from: Big John on February 07, 2025, 10:42:15 PMQuote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2025, 09:31:20 PMApparently, Nissan is now backing out of the Honda merger...
Nissan Wants to Replace Honda With a Different Partner: Report https://search.app/TsdgYZfzvrtbe2u9A
It didn't come to an accord. :awesomeface:
And so ends the latest stanza on this saga...
We seem to be far beyond the Prologue to this story...
Apparently we're just not very Civic-minded.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on February 08, 2025, 01:10:18 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 07, 2025, 11:15:45 PMQuote from: Henry on February 07, 2025, 11:09:08 PMQuote from: Big John on February 07, 2025, 10:42:15 PMQuote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2025, 09:31:20 PMApparently, Nissan is now backing out of the Honda merger...
Nissan Wants to Replace Honda With a Different Partner: Report https://search.app/TsdgYZfzvrtbe2u9A
It didn't come to an accord. :awesomeface:
And so ends the latest stanza on this saga...
We seem to be far beyond the Prologue to this story...
Apparently we're just not very Civic-minded.
Nissan still thinks they are a Titan of the auto industry.
Maybe Nissan will salvage something with its Armada of lawyers and then push into new Frontiers and turn over a new Leaf.
For Honda, this could be the Prelude to something big. Their Passport to success
Nissan and Honda couldn't agree on Sentra issues. The merger was a Altima failure.
We're all looking at life sentences in the Punitentary for this
I was talking to my neighbor Silvia about the merger falling through. The only thing she said was "Datsun?" I'll tell you what, she is a Fairlady.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 08, 2025, 01:55:00 PMI was talking to my neighbor Silvia about the merger falling through. The only thing she said was "Datsun?" I'll tell you what, she is a Fairlady.
What did her husband Cedric think about it?
Quote from: kernals12 on February 08, 2025, 02:15:27 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 08, 2025, 01:55:00 PMI was talking to my neighbor Silvia about the merger falling through. The only thing she said was "Datsun?" I'll tell you what, she is a Fairlady.
What did her husband Cedric think about it?
I can't Axxess that information at the moment, things might be too tense right now.
This was quite an Odyssey for both companies. A real Quest.
There are Elements of a new Frontier for both companies.
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 03:13:06 PMThere are Elements of a new Frontier for both companies.
Hey, I already made a pun with Frontier
Quote from: kernals12 on February 08, 2025, 03:13:49 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 03:13:06 PMThere are Elements of a new Frontier for both companies.
Hey, I already made a pun with Frontier
I lost track. I better turn over a new Leaf.
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 03:15:46 PMQuote from: kernals12 on February 08, 2025, 03:13:49 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 03:13:06 PMThere are Elements of a new Frontier for both companies.
Hey, I already made a pun with Frontier
I lost track. I better turn over a new Leaf.
Prelude of new things for you?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 08, 2025, 03:20:52 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 03:15:46 PMQuote from: kernals12 on February 08, 2025, 03:13:49 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 03:13:06 PMThere are Elements of a new Frontier for both companies.
Hey, I already made a pun with Frontier
I lost track. I better turn over a new Leaf.
Prelude of new things for you?
It's probably for the best they don't merge, their Logos might not have Integrated Gallantly.
Quote from: formulanone on February 08, 2025, 03:43:57 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 08, 2025, 03:20:52 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 03:15:46 PMQuote from: kernals12 on February 08, 2025, 03:13:49 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 03:13:06 PMThere are Elements of a new Frontier for both companies.
Hey, I already made a pun with Frontier
I lost track. I better turn over a new Leaf.
Prelude of new things for you?
It's probably for the best they don't merge, their Logos might not have Integrated Gallantly.
Too bad they could've been the Titans of Japanese automakers.
Quote from: SectorZ on February 08, 2025, 06:18:33 PMQuote from: formulanone on February 08, 2025, 03:43:57 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on February 08, 2025, 03:20:52 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 03:15:46 PMQuote from: kernals12 on February 08, 2025, 03:13:49 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 03:13:06 PMThere are Elements of a new Frontier for both companies.
Hey, I already made a pun with Frontier
I lost track. I better turn over a new Leaf.
Prelude of new things for you?
It's probably for the best they don't merge, their Logos might not have Integrated Gallantly.
Too bad they could've been the Titans of Japanese automakers.
Somehow I don't think that last quote is Acura. They'd still be behind the company that wants us to go places from now to Infiniti.