https://maps.app.goo.gl/HThFEcmDpK5Mx8VU9?g_st=ac
I see Baltimore is listed this far south along US 301. Considering even on I-95 the city don't get mentioned until Springfield, this is very odd.
US 301, also, hasn't served Baltimore either since the Bay Bridge was opened with US 301 being realigned. This sign is so outdated.
As far south as the Richmond area, all NB mileage signs along US 301 use Baltimore as final control city along its mileage signs.
Nearby Interstate 95 uses Washington and don't start with Baltimore until the Springfield interchange.
The fact is all NB US 301 mileage signs up to the Potomac River reference Baltimore as main control city. So Baltimore is used further south on US 301 than I-95 despite it don't even serve the city unlike I-95 does.
Why is that city chosen by VDOT and not Annapolis which US 301 does serve or even Waldorf would make more sense.
Because U.S. 301 orginally ended there and distance signs have been carbon copied over time.
There is also some practical benefit to advising long-distance traffic of the alternate route to avoid the DC area. And I'd suggest that Baltimore makes more sense than Waldorf in terms of being a place for which traffic is actually bound.
Look at the overall transportation system. Makes good sense given where you can go from the Potomac.
US-301 might not go to Baltimore, but the Robert S. Crain Highway (historic MD-3) does.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on December 23, 2024, 11:55:36 AMUS-301 might not go to Baltimore, but the Robert S. Crain Highway (historic MD-3) does.
Pretty much. Baltimore is fine as a control city since you can easily make the connection using MD 3 and I-97.
If you go roughly straight on the road it leads to Baltimore. US 301 takes a right turn onto US 50. Plus it's always good to take traffic out of the very congested DC area.
Besides, it's not the only instance of a control city listed on a route that does not even go there. Most US routes out West are the same way, especially when their former alignments were replaced by an Interstate.
No I don't personally have issues with its signing. I just think it's odd that they chose Baltimore.
I was wondering why it's kept. US 301 was rerouted over seventy years ago, and usually they don't keep old signs up this long. Many signing changes have taken place over the decades including Baltimore removed from MD 3 at Bowie. In 1997 I remember the signs at the 301 and 50 intersection were directing Baltimore Traffic to stay on 50/301 to I-97 and signed MD 3 for Crofton instead.
That shows how signing practices have did change somewhat.
BTW I was one that suggested here in fictional highways that I-97 should be extended past Annapolis and follow US 301 into Virginia and connect to I-95 at Ruther Glen or follow US 301 to I-295 at Richmond as a proposed bypass of DC. So I'm for bypassing Northern VA and Prince George County, MD.
As far as Waldorf as a control, it wasn't a suggestion. I couldn't find another major city along 301 other than Annapolis.
Be glad Highway Star didn't notice this, or his posts would be at three pages already. :bigass:
Quote from: roadman65 on December 23, 2024, 08:57:31 AMhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/HThFEcmDpK5Mx8VU9?g_st=ac
I see Baltimore is listed this far south along US 301. Considering even on I-95 the city don't get mentioned until Springfield, this is very odd.
US 301, also, hasn't served Baltimore either since the Bay Bridge was opened with US 301 being realigned. This sign is so outdated.
There also used to be a Baltimore sign where US 301 left US 1. This is not egregious...301 is/was the alternative to reach Baltimore without going to DC. The only reason it might not be anymore is that 301 through Southern Maryland is a slog, not because 301 was rerouted out of Baltimore. There are also Richmond signs on I-97 and MD 3 out of Baltimore.
MDOT also uses Richmond as a control city on parts of US 301 going south, and in one spot on I-97 south in Millersville it advises long-distance traffic that it can reach US 301 by either continuing on I-97 south to US 50 or by diverging onto MD 3 south.
I believe it has been kept for the reasons cited in the thread, and I also believe that it has been kept due to institutional inertia that has never been successfully contested. The MdTA has a similar degree of institutional inertia due to its use of New York as the control city for I-95 north between Baltimore and the DE state line.
Well before the interstates, US 301 was a bypass of the DC area. People left US 1 at Baltimore and returned at Richmond. There was no Beltway then.
I haven't been on US 301 between Bowling Green, VA and Bowie, MD since 1997. So I can't vouch for the sprawl that's been added to that corridor since then, but I can say it was changed since 1982 when I was there previously.
That might be something. Inertia like the Garden State Parkway kept the Holland Tunnel for US 22 at Exit 140 for many years after I-78 was completed that provides the better route.
They finally saw that Hillside is more appropriate as a control city than the river crossing and changed it. However, being US 22 was stoplight free it never was urgent to update the signs pronto. In fact when I lived in Clark, NJ using the Parkway to Route 22 was how I went to the Holland Tunnel.
Yes, this 301 scenario isn't the only place something like this happened. I'm sure many other examples exist.
I don't see how US 301's current alignment makes Baltimore inappropriate northbound. Old alignments or routings aside, heading across the Nice Bridge, it's a pretty direct line to Baltimore.
We need two simultaneous discussions on Baltimore as a control city on US 301?
I like it when states do this. Baltimore makes perfect sense to advise people to avoid DC.
This really should have just been one thread. -Mark
Quote from: MATraveler128 on December 23, 2024, 10:34:06 PMI like it when states do this. Baltimore makes perfect sense to advise people to avoid DC.
Read post # 8.
Also someone hinted that there is a lot of stop and go in MD. Plus I even saw build up of bedroom communities in Waldorf there in 1997. I haven't been that way since, so I can't say how much congestion ( or if there is any now) is there.
Plus the guide signs don't direct people to Baltimore. It's the post junction mileage signs that use it, and just was curious to why. Not stating that it's so wrong VDOT should be ashamed.
And why is Rothman here when Virginia is a long way from New York. Considering he gets upset when people criticize the viaduct removal on I-81 not realizing that folks out there don't believe it's a good idea and treat them like an enemy of morality, he shouldn't be mad at someone thinking it's odd to use a certain city on a sign.
Heck there are many who don't like New York on I-95 north of Baltimore and Wilmington on the NJ Turnpike South of Camden. Some are very urgent that it's removed at once in their tone. I'm not that urgent. It can stay as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on December 23, 2024, 11:13:41 PMThis really should have just been one thread. -Mark
You accidentally crossed in two posts about a warning sign for a subdivision in here that wasn't related to the Baltimore discussion, just FYI.
Better question: why is Baltimore signed along I-70? That one's a brand new question, never argued about before ever.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 24, 2024, 02:15:37 AMQuote from: 74/171FAN on December 23, 2024, 11:13:41 PMThis really should have just been one thread. -Mark
You accidentally crossed in two posts about a warning sign for a subdivision in here that wasn't related to the Baltimore discussion, just FYI.
Thank you. I moved those posts back to the Virginia thread. -Mark
Quote from: roadman65 on December 23, 2024, 11:22:59 PM....
And why is Rothman here when Virginia is a long way from New York. ...
The same could be said about a poster whose profile refers to Lakeland, Florida, which is a much
longer way from Virginia. Just saying.
Quote from: roadman65 on December 23, 2024, 11:22:59 PMHeck there are many who don't like New York on I-95 north of Baltimore and Wilmington on the NJ Turnpike South of Camden. Some are very urgent that it's removed at once in their tone. I'm not that urgent. It can stay as far as I'm concerned.
Now I have this urge to tweet at the various highway departments in Virginia and Maryland to say their signs are OK because roadman65 gave them permission.
I'm familiar with all of 301 north of Richmond, and even I didn't know mentions of Baltimore began all the way down there. I love the visibility Baltimore gets from it, though.
Quote from: epzik8 on December 24, 2024, 08:57:45 AMI'm familiar with all of 301 north of Richmond, and even I didn't know mentions of Baltimore began all the way down there. I love the visibility Baltimore gets from it, though.
I need to get US 301 between Richmond and Bowling Green as well as South of Petersburg and I will have the route clinched from Sarasota to Glasgow, DE.
Oh yes now the tollway as US 301 don't go to Glasgow anymore. So in reality I need three parts now.
Yes you can be unaware of things and drive a road constantly. It can happen.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 24, 2024, 08:08:29 AMQuote from: roadman65 on December 23, 2024, 11:22:59 PM....
And why is Rothman here when Virginia is a long way from New York. ...
The same could be said about a poster whose profile refers to Lakeland, Florida, which is a much longer way from Virginia. Just saying.
I'm not saying that he don't have a right to post here. Just that he's usually on NY related threads acting like an MOD on here or trolling certain individuals there, and I asked a rhetorical question. ( Notice the period over the question mark)
1995, let me ask you this. What did I did I do to you lately that makes you critical of me? I must of missed something cause we were always cool. We even PM a few times over common user issues especially that Ethan Character.
And yes people do get anal over certain things on here. So someone don't like certain signing practices, some jump all over the user. Someone posts a proposal on Fictional that has no merit and we chastise that user for even thinking the idea. I also recall arguments over Limon being used on I-70.
All I did was ask why Baltimore is used on that route and my answer was given to me. I'm satisfied with that answer.
I just thought the particular way you called out Rothman in this thread seemed hypocritical. I have no idea what the origin of your apparent grievance against him is (nor do I think I want to know), but I call them as I see them.
I don't see Baltimore as a control city here, it's just on the mileage signs which is fine if you ask me. Hanover is the NB US-301 control city at this point which is nothing but so is pretty much of everything going up 301 from Richmond until you get into Maryland.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 24, 2024, 02:21:59 AMBetter question: why is Baltimore signed along I-70? That one's a brand new question, never argued about before ever.
Oh it's been argued.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 24, 2024, 12:37:38 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on December 24, 2024, 02:21:59 AMBetter question: why is Baltimore signed along I-70? That one's a brand new question, never argued about before ever.
Oh it's been argued.
That's the joke.
Baltimore begins being a control city on 301 in Virginia at Bowling Green
VA 207 at VA 207 Bus - https://maps.app.goo.gl/zAD8jhb6sgdsbiULA
US 301 Bus ending at US 301 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/RZd63pq8uBwJjf3W6
VA 207 ending at US 301 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/ute4Nf1cUh3cZ46u9
VA 2 at US 301 Bus - https://maps.app.goo.gl/DqAgDhFHDAaqghgH8
US 301-VA 2 split - https://maps.app.goo.gl/bAb4BCj9S63mAQig8
US 301 Port Royal - https://maps.app.goo.gl/i8DusZN7fVs53h6T6
US 17 Port Royal - https://maps.app.goo.gl/3ngdca3i1Gjok8VdA
VA 3 King George - https://maps.app.goo.gl/Xceuy1SBR6LPBDHeA
VA 206 Dahlgren - https://maps.app.goo.gl/KNjL56CFgx2DUhfH9
There is at least 1 mileage sign for Baltimore on VA 207, leaving I-95 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/sXp12rDCJTT5gbzK9
Interestingly, there is a Washington DC mileage sign on US 301 well south of La Plata MD - https://maps.app.goo.gl/Kc27kMYZPpV2sZb1A
301 has also seen explosive growth on the Virginia side between VA 206 and the 301 entrance to Dahlgren, in addition to the large (and continuing) growth from La Plata to Bowie...
Baltimore appears on the mileage sign just north of I-295 as well.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 24, 2024, 02:21:59 AMBetter question: why is Baltimore signed along I-70? That one's a brand new question, never argued about before ever.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 24, 2024, 12:33:48 PMI don't see Baltimore as a control city here, it's just on the mileage signs which is fine if you ask me. Hanover is the NB US-301 control city at this point which is nothing but so is pretty much of everything going up 301 from Richmond until you get into Maryland.
That's SOP for Virginia. They will list the nearest wide-spot-in-the-road community, a more distant larger town such as a county seat or major intersection, and a distant "control city." On US 23 at the Kentucky state line, listed are Pound, Big Stone Gap (why Wise and Norton are passed over is a mystery to me) and Kingsport. On US 460, the choices are Grundy, Claypool Hill, and Bluefield.
Some random thoughts I had about US 301, Baltimore and the year 1997....
I remember reading an article in the Baltimore Sun Newspaper about a proposed freeway bypass of Waldorf. (I think this was in the summer of 1997)
No freeway bypass was ever built. However, there is an option to the east of Waldorf and Laplata (going south to north via Rosewick Rd, St Charles Parkway, and MD Route 5, these are all multilane roads with at-grade traffic light intersections. I believe this pseudo bypass corridor was finished around 2008.
Also, I'm about 90% sure that 1997 was the year that a ramp from US 50 East to I-97 North was completed giving motorists direct access from 50 East to I-97. Before that was you had to use MD 450 or MD 665 to get to I-97 (no direct access)
You can use going south to north, MD 214 to MD 424 to US 50/301 to I-97 as a bypass of Bowie and Crofton. If you are traveling from Southern Maryland to Baltimore Although you may hit some traffic on I-97 North from US 50 to Millersville because of overcapacity (only 2 lanes) but after Millersville it goes to 3.
Quote from: RoadPelican on December 27, 2024, 04:20:30 PMSome random thoughts I had about US 301, Baltimore and the year 1997....
I remember reading an article in the Baltimore Sun Newspaper about a proposed freeway bypass of Waldorf. (I think this was in the summer of 1997)
No freeway bypass was ever built. However, there is an option to the east of Waldorf and Laplata (going south to north via Rosewick Rd, St Charles Parkway, and MD Route 5, these are all multilane roads with at-grade traffic light intersections. I believe this pseudo bypass corridor was finished around 2008.
Also, I'm about 90% sure that 1997 was the year that a ramp from US 50 East to I-97 North was completed giving motorists direct access from 50 East to I-97. Before that was you had to use MD 450 or MD 665 to get to I-97 (no direct access)
You can use going south to north, MD 214 to MD 424 to US 50/301 to I-97 as a bypass of Bowie and Crofton. If you are traveling from Southern Maryland to Baltimore Although you may hit some traffic on I-97 North from US 50 to Millersville because of overcapacity (only 2 lanes) but after Millersville it goes to 3.
When I drove it in 1997 the control city on US 301 at MD 3 reflected that change already. Baltimore was already replaced with Crofton then for straight through MD 3 and Baltimore signed for US 50 East/ US 301 North ( to I-97).
Because it's the best place to poo.