AARoads Forum

Christmas Day 2024 and New Years Day 2025 both being on Wednesday was an interesting and rather strange twist. Those that work Monday-Friday ended up with four "mini-weeks" instead of two short weeks and two long weekends as we typically would surrounding a holiday. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it got me thinking: What is the best day of the week for a paid/federal holiday?

Feel free to consider as many different factors as you'd like and share your thoughts in the replies. Only one vote per user though!  :)

I didn't vote because the poll only lets you choose one day. I would vote for both Saturday and Sunday as best, with no preference for one versus the other, because a weekend holiday means I get Friday or Monday off and in either case, I get the day after the holiday as well as the holiday itself. I like having the day after as a holiday, at least for Christmas anyway (and I find it peculiar how Americans want Christmas Eve as a holiday instead of December 26). I suppose in the particular context of Christmas, Sunday has an advantage in that it means you're not expected to go to Mass on two consecutive days.

I would rank Friday just behind for that same reason—three-day weekend plus the day after the holiday is a day off.

Thursday would come next on the list because for several major holidays, I routinely get Friday off as well—at least, for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and July 4, usually we're given the following day to make it a four-day weekend.

After Thursday would come Tuesday because of the probability of getting Monday as well, at least for Christmas, July 4, and maybe New Year's.

Then comes Monday. Three-day weekends are nice, but then Tuesday won't be a day off, so I rank it lower simply because of the probability of extra days off on the other days as noted above.

Wednesday ranks at the bottom.

Weekends because that is when I do all my normal people social activities anyways.   My wife has expectations that i occasionally do normal people things and have otherwise undesirable human interactions for traditions sake.  I rather reserve more desirable days during the week for me to go do stuff I want to do.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 11:54:14 AMI didn't vote because the poll only lets you choose one day. I would vote for both Saturday and Sunday as best, with no preference for one versus the other, because a weekend holiday means I get Friday or Monday off and in either case, I get the day after the holiday as well as the holiday itself.

Is that not the case for holidays that occur during the week as well? It seems strange that you'd get an extra day off *just because* the holiday falls on a weekend.

If that is the case, I'd think there would still be other factors that could tip the scales in favor of one weekend day or the other, like whether you'd prefer the actual holiday to occur towards the beginning or the end of the long weekend based on your holiday plans (conceptually, anyways; I acknowledge that specific plans can vary a lot from year to year).

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 11:54:14 AMI like having the day after as a holiday, at least for Christmas anyway (and I find it peculiar how Americans want Christmas Eve as a holiday instead of December 26).

I don't, only because Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve are when a lot of people have their family get-togethers and so forth, so those are the nights that people tend to stay up late, meaning in some respects that Christmas Day and New Year's Day already have day-after-holiday parallels.

Meanwhile, there's typically a lot of last minute shopping, planning, etc. going on on the Eves and many retail businesses are open but close down early, so it makes sense why most people wouldn't want to be working on those days.

Also of note, December 26th is already a holiday (Boxing Day) in Canada and a number of other countries.

Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 12:33:50 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 11:54:14 AMI didn't vote because the poll only lets you choose one day. I would vote for both Saturday and Sunday as best, with no preference for one versus the other, because a weekend holiday means I get Friday or Monday off and in either case, I get the day after the holiday as well as the holiday itself.

Is that not the case for holidays that occur during the week as well? It seems strange that you'd get an extra day off *just because* the holiday falls on a weekend.

....

If a holiday falls on a Saturday, I get Friday off (and Sunday is not a work day anyway). If a holiday falls on Sunday, I get Monday off (and likewise, Saturday is not a workday). If a holiday falls on a weekday, generally I get that day off and only that day off, though sometimes we'll be given an extra day (typically we're given the day after Thanksgiving, for example, and then this past July we were given July 5 when the Fourth fell on Thursday). That's not always the case—this year, for example, the new June 19 holiday is on Thursday and we will have that day off, but we aren't getting Friday as well.

Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 12:33:50 PMAlso of note, December 26th is already a holiday (Boxing Day) in Canada and a number of other countries.

One of my sisters has a December 26 birthday. At our Christmas Eve gatherings, I always jocularly wish her a happy Boxing Day. In the U.S.. that's traditionally our "crowd the stores for returns" day (at least for people who don't do their returns online).

Since my family exchanges gifts only for Christmas, not for birthdays, she's not done out of any birthday presents by having her birthday right after Christmas.

Assuming Federal Holidays:

S Tier
Saturday
Sunday

A Tier
Friday

B Tier
Monday

D Tier
Wednesday

F Tier
Tuesday
Thursday

Fridays are better than Mondays since you get the next day off to "recover" as others have said. For the mid-week holidays, I'd rather my week be split up evenly than have one stupid day to work on either side of one.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 12:45:09 PMIf a holiday falls on a Saturday, I get Friday off (and Sunday is not a work day anyway). If a holiday falls on Sunday, I get Monday off (and likewise, Saturday is not a workday). If a holiday falls on a weekday, generally I get that day off and only that day off, though sometimes we'll be given an extra day (typically we're given the day after Thanksgiving, for example, and then this past July we were given July 5 when the Fourth fell on Thursday). That's not always the case—this year, for example, the new June 19 holiday is on Thursday and we will have that day off, but we aren't getting Friday as well

I follow that, but I think I'm still missing something. What's different about that than if a holiday fell on a Friday, or a Monday? Isn't it a three-day weekend either way?

Or is your preference for weekends because the holiday itself falls on the *middle* day of the three-day weekend, rather than the first or last day?

Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 01:04:54 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 12:45:09 PMIf a holiday falls on a Saturday, I get Friday off (and Sunday is not a work day anyway). If a holiday falls on Sunday, I get Monday off (and likewise, Saturday is not a workday). If a holiday falls on a weekday, generally I get that day off and only that day off, though sometimes we'll be given an extra day (typically we're given the day after Thanksgiving, for example, and then this past July we were given July 5 when the Fourth fell on Thursday). That's not always the case—this year, for example, the new June 19 holiday is on Thursday and we will have that day off, but we aren't getting Friday as well

I follow that, but I think I'm still missing something. What's different about that than if a holiday fell on a Friday, or a Monday? Isn't it a three-day weekend either way?

Or is your preference for weekends because the holiday itself falls on the *middle* day of the three-day weekend, rather than the first or last day?

The latter. As noted, I like to have off on the day after a holiday, especially a holiday that involves a big meal (and the resulting need to clean up), such as Christmas.

I'm surprised at the popularity of weekend holidays. You get no benefit from a holiday on a weekend; it doesn't extend the time off or (assuming normal working hours) possibilities for holiday pay. It's literally the worst time for a holiday to happen.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 01:08:46 PM

QuoteOr is your preference for weekends because the holiday itself falls on the *middle* day of the three-day weekend, rather than the first or last day?

The latter. As noted, I like to have off on the day after a holiday, especially a holiday that involves a big meal (and the resulting need to clean up), such as Christmas.

In re-reading your post, that makes total sense.

I don't think most people think that deeply about the day before and after thing since that applies to some holidays more than others depending on what you do to celebrate and whether that has to be on a specific day or not. For the summer holidays, in my experience it's just an extra day off regardless, and specific plans can often be shifted around between the days.

Quote from: Molandfreak on January 02, 2025, 01:13:39 PMI'm surprised at the popularity of weekend holidays. You get no benefit from a holiday on a weekend; it doesn't extend the time off or (assuming normal working hours) possibilities for holiday pay. It's literally the worst time for a holiday to happen.

As noted upthread, for a lot of jobs, you have x amount of guaranteed holidays. When that holiday falls on a weekend, you get either the previous Friday or coming Monday off instead, so you're still getting the extra time off. As I'm salaried, holiday pay doesn't apply.

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 02, 2025, 01:24:26 PM

Quote from: Molandfreak on January 02, 2025, 01:13:39 PMI'm surprised at the popularity of weekend holidays. You get no benefit from a holiday on a weekend; it doesn't extend the time off or (assuming normal working hours) possibilities for holiday pay. It's literally the worst time for a holiday to happen.

As noted upthread, for a lot of jobs, you have x amount of guaranteed holidays. When that holiday falls on a weekend, you get either the previous Friday or coming Monday off instead, so you're still getting the extra time off. As I'm salaried, holiday pay doesn't apply.

Same here. Thanks for clarifying. It didn't even occur to me that some people wouldn't understand that about getting paid.

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Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 01:22:29 PM....

I don't think most people think that deeply about the day before and after thing since that applies to some holidays more than others depending on what you do to celebrate and whether that has to be on a specific day or not. For the summer holidays, in my experience it's just an extra day off regardless, and specific plans can often be shifted around between the days.

Certainly a valid point about some holidays being different from others. I thought about saying that earlier, but I didn't because I thought it would make an already-lengthy explanation even longer. A day like Columbus Day (which always falls on a Monday anyway) is nice to have but is not what I would call a "major" holiday.

Monday, as I only have classes Monday-Thursday so it gives me a 4 day weekend. Or Thursday.

Designating a Monday as a holiday rather than having it celebrated on its proper date takes away from the meaning of the holiday.  Memorial Day is a prime example of this.

Memorial Day was meant to be a day to recall those who who have given their lives for this country.  Return Memorial Day to May 30th!

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 11:54:14 AMI like having the day after as a holiday, at least for Christmas anyway (and I find it peculiar how Americans want Christmas Eve as a holiday instead of December 26).

I don't quite know what you mean by peculiar, other than to convey a sense of disparagement, but it might be worth pointing out that Christmas Eve is an official holiday in a number of countries, including the Czech Republic, Estonia, and starting this year, Poland. Additionally, in most of Central Europe and Scandinavia, the main celebration of Christmas is on Christmas Eve, even if the official holiday isn't until the next day. This seems to derive from the birth of Jesus of Nazareth taking place during the night.

I voted for Friday, as we have a lot of Monday holidays already. I get two days each for Thanksgiving (always Thursday and Friday), Christmas, and New Year's, so only the latter two are flexible as to the day of the week.

This Last year, I got Dec. 24/25 and Dec. 31/Jan. 1 off. Next This year, since Christmas and New Year's are on Thursday, I get Thursday and Friday (Dec. 25/26 and Jan. 1/2) off.

I'm not a fan of holidays in the middle of the week, such as Independence Day and Veterans Day.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 02, 2025, 02:58:12 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 11:54:14 AMI like having the day after as a holiday, at least for Christmas anyway (and I find it peculiar how Americans want Christmas Eve as a holiday instead of December 26).

I don't quite know what you mean by peculiar, other than to convey a sense of disparagement, but it might be worth pointing out that Christmas Eve is an official holiday in a number of countries, including the Czech Republic, Estonia, and starting this year, Poland. Additionally, in most of Central Europe and Scandinavia, the main celebration of Christmas is on Christmas Eve, even if the official holiday isn't until the next day. This seems to derive from the birth of Jesus of Nazareth taking place during the night.

What I mean is that I find it odd the way Americans rush to celebrate Christmas in advance over the course of a month and then, bam, Christmas is "over" immediately when the actual day arrives, whereas the actual Christmas season in religious terms begins on December 25 and runs up to and including the Epiphany on January 6. I went to Home Depot on December 23 and all the Christmas stuff had been removed. I told my wife, not entirely in jest, that odds were the grocery stores would have Valentine's Day crap in place by December 26 (I don't know whether they did because I didn't go to any stores that day). One of the weathermen on our local NBC affiliate said she took down her Christmas decorations by last Friday (December 27) and that she didn't understand why anyone would keep them up longer; her two colleagues (both of whom are Latin American) looked at her like she had three heads. We leave our tree and lights up, and lit at night, through and including January 6. After that day they're no longer lit, but it may take us a week or two to get around to taking them down especially when January 6 is on a Monday, as it is this year.

The day after Christmas is a day when I usually feel tired and I just want to sleep in and do nothing. I certainly understand businesses closing early on Christmas Eve as an accommodation to employees, especially as many parishes will have a children's service at a fairly early hour. But I've never understood the idea of the entire day somehow meriting equal status with Christmas Day.

I absolutely haaaate it when a holiday falls on a Wednesday. Having what is basically two miniature work weeks is really disorienting. Tuesday or Thursday isn't so bad since I'll usually just take the Monday or Friday off in that case.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 03:07:03 PMWhat I mean is that I find it odd the way Americans rush to celebrate Christmas in advance over the course of a month and then, bam, Christmas is "over" immediately when the actual day arrives, whereas the actual Christmas season in religious terms begins on December 25 and runs up to and including the Epiphany on January 6.

Well, it depends on the liturgical tradition. In Roman Catholicism, for example, solemnities, such as Christmas in addition to Easter and a number of others, begin the night before—and for everyone, not just children. I am admittedly less familiar with other denominations that celebrate both Christmas and Epiphany.

Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on January 02, 2025, 03:18:31 PMI absolutely haaaate it when a holiday falls on a Wednesday. Having what is basically two miniature work weeks is really disorienting. Tuesday or Thursday isn't so bad since I'll usually just take the Monday or Friday off in that case.

Eh, I'd rather have two separate mini-work weeks than one short one and a single day one. I'm in a different position than most with flex time off (aka unlimited PTO).

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 02, 2025, 01:24:26 PMAs I'm salaried, holiday pay doesn't apply.

What do you mean by that? You still get paid for the holiday, no?

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 02, 2025, 03:45:13 PM

Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on January 02, 2025, 03:18:31 PMI absolutely haaaate it when a holiday falls on a Wednesday. Having what is basically two miniature work weeks is really disorienting. Tuesday or Thursday isn't so bad since I'll usually just take the Monday or Friday off in that case.

Eh, I'd rather have two separate mini-work weeks than one short one and a single day one. I'm in a different position than most with flex time off (aka unlimited PTO).

The thing is, most people end up taking that single day off anyways. I get that's not always an option for everyone, but most people are probably subconsciously factoring in the likelihood of a four day weekend rather than working that single day.

I'd prefer to take the entire week off if the major holiday falls on a Wednesday, like Christmas and New Year's Day did. The two best days for one to occur are Monday and Friday, although those days could also be treated as off days if it comes on Sunday or Saturday, respectively.

Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 08:12:35 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 02, 2025, 01:24:26 PMAs I'm salaried, holiday pay doesn't apply.

What do you mean by that? You still get paid for the holiday, no?

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 02, 2025, 03:45:13 PM

Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on January 02, 2025, 03:18:31 PMI absolutely haaaate it when a holiday falls on a Wednesday. Having what is basically two miniature work weeks is really disorienting. Tuesday or Thursday isn't so bad since I'll usually just take the Monday or Friday off in that case.

Eh, I'd rather have two separate mini-work weeks than one short one and a single day one. I'm in a different position than most with flex time off (aka unlimited PTO).

The thing is, most people

Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 08:12:35 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 02, 2025, 01:24:26 PMAs I'm salaried, holiday pay doesn't apply.

What do you mean by that? You still get paid for the holiday, no?

Just meaning I'm not getting time and a half like someone would if they were hourly.

Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 08:12:35 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 02, 2025, 01:24:26 PMAs I'm salaried, holiday pay doesn't apply.

What do you mean by that? You still get paid for the holiday, no?

The general question highlights the difference between people that have always been paid hourly (ie: retail workers, construction workers, etc) and don't understand the benefits had by many that are paid via salary (ie: office workers).

Typically, and simply, salaried workers get paid based on the average of what they would earn a year.  Say they will be paid $100,000/year, and say they get paid every 2 weeks.  They get 3,846.15 (before taxes and deductions).  It doesn't matter when holidays fall during those pay periods.  It doesn't matter how many sick or vacation days they take (assuming they're not over their allowance).  They're going to get that $3,846.15.  Their business informs them how many holidays they get per year.  As 1995hoo stated, when a holiday is on a Saturday, they get Friday off. When the holiday is on a Sunday, they get Monday off.  They don't 'lose' the holiday because it's on a weekend.

For hourly workers at stores, typically the day the holiday is on is when they qualify for holiday bonus pay. So if the holiday is on a Saturday, they get their 1.5 times pay (or whatever they get). They get nothing on Friday, while the office workers of the same company enjoy the day off while getting paid for it.

Unless you love dealing with the public, you want to strive to get an office job in most cases.  The benefits are much better overall.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PM

Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 08:12:35 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 02, 2025, 01:24:26 PMAs I'm salaried, holiday pay doesn't apply.

What do you mean by that? You still get paid for the holiday, no?

The general question highlights the difference between people that have always been paid hourly (ie: retail workers, construction workers, etc) and don't understand the benefits had by many that are paid via salary (ie: office workers).

That may be in some cases, but I'm quite familiar with the difference between hourly vs. salary pay.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMTypically, and simply, salaried workers get paid based on the average of what they would earn a year.  Say they will be paid $100,000/year, and say they get paid every 2 weeks.  They get 3,846.15 (before taxes and deductions).  It doesn't matter when holidays fall during those pay periods.  It doesn't matter how many sick or vacation days they take (assuming they're not over their allowance). They're going to get that $3,846.15.  Their business informs them how many holidays they get per year.

Yep. Fully understood there.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMAs 1995hoo stated, when a holiday is on a Saturday, they get Friday off. When the holiday is on a Sunday, they get Monday off.  They don't 'lose' the holiday because it's on a weekend.

Yep. Fully understood there too, but that's not unique to those getting paid by salary. At my company, everyone gets that, regardless of whether they're salaried or paid hourly.

If they're salaried, assuming they didn't take any extra vacation days, they get their normal pay but it's recorded as 32 hours regular pay and 8 hours holiday pay.

If they're hourly, again assuming no extra vacation days, they get their normal hourly rate for their hours during the four work days, plus 8 hours pay for the holiday.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMFor hourly workers at stores, typically the day the holiday is on is when they qualify for holiday bonus pay. So if the holiday is on a Saturday, they get their 1.5 times pay (or whatever they get). They get nothing on Friday, while the office workers of the same company enjoy the day off while getting paid for it.

You've got me there. I've never heard of things being done this way for full time employees. Is this primarily a retail/part-time job thing, because employees get to choose what days they work? I can't imagine this working in any business that operates Monday-Friday only.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMUnless you love dealing with the public, you want to strive to get an office job in most cases.  The benefits are much better overall.

Having an office job doesn't guarantee a salary though, and vice versa. My company has both office and warehouse staff (no retail though) and it's a mix of both in both areas, with those in higher level positions more likely to be salaried.

I'm salaried.  There's some weird arrangement where if a holiday falls on a Sunday, we get Monday off, but if it falls on a Saturday, we get a special kind of leave accrual that we can bank.

Might have the days backwards, since it's been a while.

The instance of "Saturday holiday observed on Friday" that catches a lot of people by surprise is when New Year's Day falls on Saturday (which most recently occurred in 2022). The US government follows its standard principle when that happens: The holiday is observed on Friday, and it doesn't matter that this means it is observed in the previous calendar year. When that happens, a fair number of private-sector businesses—especially, in the DC area, law firms obsessed with their year-end collections—observe the holiday on Monday, January 3, instead. It's caused a fair amount of confusion in the DC area when you have a situation where one spouse works for the government and gets Friday off and the other works for a company that decides to observe Monday. I remember the law firm where I used to work got enough complaints that they gave people a choice of one day or the other, subject to approval to ensure "adequate staffing" in the various support services. The firm was not based in the DC area and I don't know whether the bulk of the complaints came from the DC office.

If you don't live in the DC area, it may be hard to appreciate just how significant an employer the US government is here. It's especially striking on holidays like, say, Veterans Day, which most of the private sector does not observe, due to the immense drop-off in rush-hour traffic.

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An example of disparate handling of a Saturday holiday involves government workers who normally work Saturday. The obvious example with which most of us are familiar would be mailmen. The mail normally gets delivered on Saturday. So if, say, July 4 falls on Saturday, most government workers who do not work Saturday are given Friday off, but the mailmen get Saturday and mail is still delivered on Friday. If they got Friday off, they'd effectively get two holidays instead of one (because Saturday is a normal workday for them).

Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 08:12:35 PMThe thing is, most people end up taking that single day off anyways. I get that's not always an option for everyone, but most people are probably subconsciously factoring in the likelihood of a four day weekend rather than working that single day.

Yup. 9 times out of 10 I'll just take the single day off unless I think there's a good reason to go into work that day (playing catch-up, etc).

Quote from: webny99 on January 03, 2025, 06:31:12 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMFor hourly workers at stores, typically the day the holiday is on is when they qualify for holiday bonus pay. So if the holiday is on a Saturday, they get their 1.5 times pay (or whatever they get). They get nothing on Friday, while the office workers of the same company enjoy the day off while getting paid for it.

You've got me there. I've never heard of things being done this way for full time employees. Is this primarily a retail/part-time job thing, because employees get to choose what days they work? I can't imagine this working in any business that operates Monday-Friday only.

Depends on the company and their benefits packages. My company has 11 paid holidays, so even if you're hourly and don't work, you get paid for that day. If you do have to work that day, you get time and a half.

When I worked in restaurants, we had plenty of people who worked full time hours (32+ hours a week) and just worked Monday through Friday. On Christmas or Thanksgiving, the two days the restaurant was closed, if those days fell on a weekday (obviously Thanksgiving always did), they just didn't work that day and didn't get paid.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMThe general question highlights the difference between people that have always been paid hourly (ie: retail workers, construction workers, etc) and don't understand the benefits had by many that are paid via salary (ie: office workers).

Typically, and simply, salaried workers get paid based on the average of what they would earn a year.  Say they will be paid $100,000/year, and say they get paid every 2 weeks.  They get 3,846.15 (before taxes and deductions).  It doesn't matter when holidays fall during those pay periods.  It doesn't matter how many sick or vacation days they take (assuming they're not over their allowance).  They're going to get that $3,846.15.  Their business informs them how many holidays they get per year.  As 1995hoo stated, when a holiday is on a Saturday, they get Friday off. When the holiday is on a Sunday, they get Monday off.  They don't 'lose' the holiday because it's on a weekend.

For hourly workers at stores, typically the day the holiday is on is when they qualify for holiday bonus pay. So if the holiday is on a Saturday, they get their 1.5 times pay (or whatever they get). They get nothing on Friday, while the office workers of the same company enjoy the day off while getting paid for it.

Unless you love dealing with the public, you want to strive to get an office job in most cases.  The benefits are much better overall.

And then there's the further distinction between "true hourly" workers (punch clock in/out, pay quoted in hourly amounts, paycheck fully determined by hours worked, full time and a half overtime, etc. - basically, retail/service workers) and "pseudo salary" workers (timesheet completed after the fact, pay quoted as annual salary, based on set 40 hour/week schedule, overtime is paid if working over 40 hours, though it might be straight time or some other arrangement instead of time and a half).  And, of course, on "true salary" you don't get anything extra if you end up working more than 40 hours a week.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 08:27:22 AMThe instance of "Saturday holiday observed on Friday" that catches a lot of people by surprise is when New Year's Day falls on Saturday (which most recently occurred in 2022). The US government follows its standard principle when that happens: The holiday is observed on Friday, and it doesn't matter that this means it is observed in the previous calendar year. When that happens, a fair number of private-sector businesses—especially, in the DC area, law firms obsessed with their year-end collections—observe the holiday on Monday, January 3, instead. It's caused a fair amount of confusion in the DC area when you have a situation where one spouse works for the government and gets Friday off and the other works for a company that decides to observe Monday. I remember the law firm where I used to work got enough complaints that they gave people a choice of one day or the other, subject to approval to ensure "adequate staffing" in the various support services. The firm was not based in the DC area and I don't know whether the bulk of the complaints came from the DC office.

Interesting.  I wonder if something like this is why the state of New York will have the observed day on Monday for holidays falling on Sunday, but give "holiday leave" if the holiday falls on Saturday.  Although the state fiscal year changes on April 1 and there aren't any holidays then, but even the federal government doesn't fully align on its own fiscal year starting in October (ex: taxes are by calendar year, not federal fiscal year).

To me, this is a simple question.

The US has 6 holidays that fall on a Monday by law.  One that is religious in nature and people would object if they tried to move it (Christmas), with the mathematically derived New Year's Day falling on the same day of the week a week later.  Then there is the Thursday holiday for Thanksgiving, which for most people, is followed by "black Friday" which isn't a holiday, but most non-service/non-retail jobs are off and most offices you have the lowest ranked person forced to come in and make a token effort (in my state, it is a state holiday by law), and I don't think anyone would get behind changing that either.  For many (most?) people, it is a four day weekend, and the "visit home" meme of it means it needs to be.

So that leaves two.  Independence Day, which is, well, also called the 4th of July, so I think we are stuck with it being on the, well 4th of July.  (My state also takes statehood day, June 20, which, is 14 days before and thus also always on the same day of the week, but that is just my small state and nobody but government workers gets it off anyway).

Leaving Veteran's Day.  It, too, was included in the Monday Holiday Bill, but was put back on November 11 at the request of WWI veterans a couple of years later.  Well, the last WWI veteran died in 2011.  The USA has fought dozens of wars since, one declared and many more not, none of which have November 11 as a special day.  So why not move it back to the second Monday in November.

So, as far as the law goes, every federal holiday should be a Monday, except for Christmas, New Year's Day and the 4th of July. 

As far as best and worst, Wednesday is the worst day for the three moveable holidays I mention above to fall.  It messes with, in the December/January case, two whole weeks of work, as you get stuck with skeleton crews both weeks (and the same for the one week in July as well).

The best day for the moveable holidays to fall is any day between Friday and Monday inclusive.

Quote from: SP Cook on January 03, 2025, 01:44:05 PMSo, as far as the law goes, every federal holiday should be a Monday Friday, except for Christmas, New Year's Day and the 4th of July. 

FTFY according to the official and legally binding AARoads Forum poll results.  :sombrero:

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 03, 2025, 10:34:09 AMWhen I worked in restaurants, we had plenty of people who worked full time hours (32+ hours a week) and just worked Monday through Friday. On Christmas or Thanksgiving, the two days the restaurant was closed, if those days fell on a weekday (obviously Thanksgiving always did), they just didn't work that day and didn't get paid.

Wouldn't they still have some number of company-paid holidays that they would be able to use for those days?

Quote from: SP Cook on January 03, 2025, 01:44:05 PMTo me, this is a simple question.

The US has 6 holidays that fall on a Monday by law. ....

With all due respect, I think you are confused, unless you're referring to how Veterans Day used to be fixed on the last Monday in October. I count five holidays that always fall on Monday by law, one that always falls on Thursday, and five with fixed dates:

• New Year's Day (fixed date, January 1)
• Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. (always on third Monday in January)
• Washington's Birthday (always on third Monday in February)
• Memorial Day (always on last Monday in May)
• Juneteenth National Independence Day (fixed date, June 19)
• Independence Day (fixed date, July 4)
• Labor Day (always on first Monday in September)
• Columbus Day (always on second Monday in October)
• Veterans Day (fixed date, November 11)
• Thanksgiving Day (always on fourth Thursday in November)
• Christmas Day (fixed date, December 25)

Quote from: webny99 on January 03, 2025, 02:13:10 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 03, 2025, 10:34:09 AMWhen I worked in restaurants, we had plenty of people who worked full time hours (32+ hours a week) and just worked Monday through Friday. On Christmas or Thanksgiving, the two days the restaurant was closed, if those days fell on a weekday (obviously Thanksgiving always did), they just didn't work that day and didn't get paid.

Wouldn't they still have some number of company-paid holidays that they would be able to use for those days?

The restaurant biz isn't known for it's employee-friendly policies. No such thing as a company-paid holiday for hourly employees. When I was a manager, I often had to work on the holiday itself, but I got a third day off in a week somewhere near that holiday to make up for it.

Any holiday between Friday and Monday is ideal as it will make a 3-day weekend (Saturday and Sunday holidays being transferred to the nearest weekday, at least for me).

But if I have to choose just one day of the week, it would be Monday. Having the 4-day work week after the 3-day weekend is a nice consolation for when the long weekend is over.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 02:13:32 PMWith all due respect, I think you are confused, unless you're referring to how Veterans Day used to be fixed on the last Monday in October.

Why on earth did they fix Veterans' Day in October? That seems weird to me. No wonder they moved it back to its original date.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 03, 2025, 03:38:22 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 02:13:32 PMWith all due respect, I think you are confused, unless you're referring to how Veterans Day used to be fixed on the last Monday in October.

Why on earth did they fix Veterans' Day in October? That seems weird to me. No wonder they moved it back to its original date.

I have no idea, and it seems peculiar that they fixed it two weeks after Columbus Day. November 11 at least has particular historical significance.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 03:52:59 PM

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 03, 2025, 03:38:22 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 02:13:32 PMWith all due respect, I think you are confused, unless you're referring to how Veterans Day used to be fixed on the last Monday in October.

Why on earth did they fix Veterans' Day in October? That seems weird to me. No wonder they moved it back to its original date.

I have no idea, and it seems peculiar that they fixed it two weeks after Columbus Day. November 11 at least has particular historical significance.

I don't know why the fourth Monday in October was picked, but my understanding is it was changed to a Monday instead of a date because -- surprise -- it created another three-day weekend.

Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 03, 2025, 04:24:33 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 03:52:59 PM

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 03, 2025, 03:38:22 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 02:13:32 PMWith all due respect, I think you are confused, unless you're referring to how Veterans Day used to be fixed on the last Monday in October.

Why on earth did they fix Veterans' Day in October? That seems weird to me. No wonder they moved it back to its original date.

I have no idea, and it seems peculiar that they fixed it two weeks after Columbus Day. November 11 at least has particular historical significance.

I don't know why the fourth Monday in October was picked, but my understanding is it was changed to a Monday instead of a date because -- surprise -- it created another three-day weekend.

Sure, I took the latter as a given, especially given that it happened as part of the Uniform Monday Holiday Act enacted in 1968 and effective in 1971! But I was responding to the query of why they chose a day in October.

Quote from: SP Cook on January 03, 2025, 01:44:05 PMSo that leaves two.

Three - Juneteenth.

From my perspective, I prefer a holiday be on either a Monday or a Friday. If it occurs on a Tuesday or Thursday, I'm going to burn a PTO day so that I can get an extended weekend.

Personally, I enjoy a holiday on a Wednesday because 99% of the time, I get to work from home instead of traveling and going to worksites. Admittedly, we're a bit inefficient because nobody wants to call meetings early on Mondays and Friday afternoons out of habit, and that sort of also spreads into the buffer days alongside a holiday, so they're lazy weeks at best, and I don't have to use PTO.

I was also used to a job for about three years which featured a Wednesday off for me, which was nice because your work "week" was limited to 2-3 days before coming up for air. It was better than my previous Sunday-Thursday stretch.

Whether a holiday falls on Mondays or Fridays doesn't matter much to me.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 11:54:14 AM(and I find it peculiar how Americans want Christmas Eve as a holiday instead of December 26).

That varies from family to family.  Christmas Day is definitely the bigger day for us:  opening stockings, Christmas breakfast, and opening the rest of the presents take up most of the day.

The Fourth of July should be on a Friday or Saturday each year.  If you go to the public fireworks show here you don't get back home until after 11, and it's misery to have to get up at the normal time for work afterwards.

Christmas and New Year's on a Wednesday is ass if you have stuff to get done. Two lost weeks.

(If you're just a worker with no responsibility, it's fantastic.)

I have no strong feelings one way or another on the day of the week a holiday takes place, except perhaps a small disinclination to them taking place on the weekend.

As an academic, I would prefer actually that there be no holidays during the semester, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on that, especially in the fall semester, since it would mean starting early enough that finals could take place before Thanksgiving.

I voted Thursday because Thursdays suck and I wish people would stop trying to get me to do things on them.

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2025, 05:59:15 AMI voted Thursday because Thursdays suck and I wish people would stop trying to get me to do things on them.

Sounds like you could never get the hang of Thursdays.

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 03, 2025, 02:17:00 PM

Quote from: webny99 on January 03, 2025, 02:13:10 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 03, 2025, 10:34:09 AMWhen I worked in restaurants, we had plenty of people who worked full time hours (32+ hours a week) and just worked Monday through Friday. On Christmas or Thanksgiving, the two days the restaurant was closed, if those days fell on a weekday (obviously Thanksgiving always did), they just didn't work that day and didn't get paid.

Wouldn't they still have some number of company-paid holidays that they would be able to use for those days?

The restaurant biz isn't known for it's employee-friendly policies. No such thing as a company-paid holiday for hourly employees. When I was a manager, I often had to work on the holiday itself, but I got a third day off in a week somewhere near that holiday to make up for it.

The car dealership industry isn't much better; depending on the size (mom-and-pop) and scope (how big a metro area is it located in) of the store, holidays are typically limited to New Year's Day, Easter, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas. A little better than the big box brands, but certainly not on government workers' standards.

I worked one large store which literally had one true holiday for most employees: Christmas Day, except for a handful of sales folks who arranged Christmas morning new-car deliveries with a bow on it (for an additional charge, naturally). They were a rarity to be open seven days a week, which is a blue law in some other states. On the other hand, working Sunday-Thursday meant a short day to start the week (6 hours instead of 10-12), and you weren't mentally dragging your ass around for the first few hours of a Monday, and you'd have that childish grin on your face on Thursday afternoons. Customers were usually never angry about anything on a Sunday. Most looked at it as convenience and many of them let their stodgy guard down since work and other errands weren't hanging over their head.

At least we'd go by volunteers for the shorter double-pay days and draw straws for some of the others. Usually, I put myself on the line for Easter which freed me up for almost everything else that year. But yeah, most dealerships aren't closed for Veterans Day, Martin Luther King Day, or Columbus Day, to name a few. You could float a holiday on PTO, and some give you a "birthday" off to use as you please. Memorial Day wavers a little; some sell and service, but others do not. It's business as usual for anything else.

Car dealerships have more holidays than any other retail business, at least if you believe the commercials.

Quote from: hotdogPi on January 05, 2025, 10:05:30 AMCar dealerships have more holidays than any other retail business, at least if you believe the commercials.

I wouldn't be too surprised if I saw an advertisement for a Gemerton's Day sale.

Quote from: 7/8 on January 03, 2025, 02:22:40 PMBut if I have to choose just one day of the week, it would be Monday. Having the 4-day work week after the 3-day weekend is a nice consolation for when the long weekend is over.

This is interesting. This makes sense to me conceptually, but I've never actually thought about it like that in practice.

At least for me, the Tuesday after a Monday holiday is usually like a stereotypical Monday, but worse.  :-D  The fact that the week is 40% over by the time you slog through Tuesday, could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it!

That said, the more I think about it, I do tend to prefer the holiday to occur on the first or second day of a long weekend rather than the third or last day.

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2025, 10:08:30 AMa Gemerton's Day sale

Is there a Finnish car brand?

Quote from: webny99 on January 05, 2025, 11:08:56 AMThat said, the more I think about it, I do tend to prefer the holiday to occur on the first or second day of a long weekend rather than the third or last day.

There's nothing stopping you from doing something on the first or second day and using the third as a rest/catch-up day regardless of which if the official holiday.

I also like the four-day weeks following.  I'm usually exhausted after a roadtrip, even if I take a day off after the ones with a full day of driving, so only having to get up for work on four days instead of five helps.

Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2025, 04:09:11 PM

Quote from: webny99 on January 05, 2025, 11:08:56 AMThat said, the more I think about it, I do tend to prefer the holiday to occur on the first or second day of a long weekend rather than the third or last day.

There's nothing stopping you from doing something on the first or second day and using the third as a rest/catch-up day regardless of which if the official holiday.

There may be, or there may not. It depends on the holiday and whether I have pre-existing plans for one or more of the other days.

Quote from: GaryV on January 05, 2025, 01:59:36 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2025, 10:08:30 AMa Gemerton's Day sale

Is there a Finnish car brand?

There's a Finnish truck manufacturer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu_Auto), at least.

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2025, 10:08:30 AM

Quote from: hotdogPi on January 05, 2025, 10:05:30 AMCar dealerships have more holidays than any other retail business, at least if you believe the commercials.

I wouldn't be too surprised if I saw an advertisement for a Gemerton's Day sale.

Did you mean Gemerton's Day Sales event?

Quote from: webny99 on January 05, 2025, 06:33:50 PM

Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2025, 04:09:11 PM

Quote from: webny99 on January 05, 2025, 11:08:56 AMThat said, the more I think about it, I do tend to prefer the holiday to occur on the first or second day of a long weekend rather than the third or last day.

There's nothing stopping you from doing something on the first or second day and using the third as a rest/catch-up day regardless of which if the official holiday.

There may be, or there may not. It depends on the holiday and whether I have pre-existing plans for one or more of the other days.

It's not like holidays get scheduled after you make plans (other than when Cuomo made Juneteenth a state holiday with two days notice).  They're there first! ;)

About a week in, I figure we've gotten about as many votes as we're going to get, and Monday and Friday are the most popular choices by a considerable margin, with Friday holding a narrow lead. Interestingly though, every day but Tuesday received at least one vote.

It's not hard to see why - there aren't many advantages to a midweek holiday, and unless you're in a position of regularly being able to take the whole week off (in which case, why not just have the holiday occur midweek), it's almost certain that those working full time will have to be back to work on Wednesday. Even in the event of taking Monday off to make a four-day weekend, that still makes the holiday more of a wrap-up/catch-up/travel day than one to party and stay up late.

I feel that way about Monday holidays too (which is partly why I voted for Friday), but it's only amplified for a Tuesday holiday.

Thursday's for me, allows me to have a 4 day weekend