Cool people always mispronounce certain geographic names, such as Mackinac and Greenwich.
I always pronounce the final 'c' in Mackinac. If I want to be even cooler, I call it "Mack Attack."
Lots of cool people pronounce the 's' in Illinois.
I always pronounce Greenwich like "green witch", the way it's spelled. A lot of this may be because the Wicked Witch from 'The Wizard Of Oz' was green.
Some place names can't really be pronounced, such as Banff.
I can't quite get the name of Zacoalco de Torres right when I say it. The proper way of pronouncing the name is apparently "Tzacoalco" given it has Aztec origin.
None. I view it as a sign of respect to pronounce place names as the locals do if you're in the know about it.
Peabody, Massachusetts. I do that on purpose, I refuse to pronounce it the way Porky pig pronounces the word "puberty". The cartoon isn't called Mr. Pee-buh-dee and Sherman
War cess ter MA
I can never bring myself to call Bellefontaine, OH "bell-fountain" like the locals do.
There is a street in Downtown Nashville called Demonbreun St. Non-locals pronounce it "demon brewin'", which is wrong. The correct pronunciation is "duh-MON-bree-UN". Sometimes I say "Demon Brewin'" because I heard a radio DJ call it that years ago.
Also Maury County, TN is not pronounced like talk show host Maury Povich. Instead it is pronounced like Murry or Murray. Normally I pronounce this one as it should be, to confuse the non-locals.
This is basically the opposite of this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33009.0).
The defunct town of Greenwich MA was actually pronounced "Green Witch". I don't believe any others were pronounced in such a way.
Any English speakers will mispronounce every city in Québec, as well as the province itself. No, it's not KWUH-beck, it's KAY-beck.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 11:18:38 AMAny English speakers will mispronounce every city in Québec, as well as the province itself. No, it's not KWUH-beck, it's KAY-beck.
Isn't it more kay-BECK?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 11:25:04 AMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 11:18:38 AMAny English speakers will mispronounce every city in Québec, as well as the province itself. No, it's not KWUH-beck, it's KAY-beck.
Isn't it more kay-BECK?
What's the difference?
Quote from: SectorZ on April 03, 2025, 10:57:53 AMThe defunct town of Greenwich MA was actually pronounced "Green Witch". I don't believe any others were pronounced in such a way.
Greenwich, KS (https://maps.app.goo.gl/JzoLG5k6UbZuRtw1A), is also pronounced Green Witch. For that reason, the city street that extends to that community is also pronounced Green Witch. Although, there is one guy at church who annoyingly calls the street Grenn Witch...
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2025, 11:33:21 AMCapital letters imply a stressed syllable.
I'd be stressed too if I was a syllable in Québec. :D
A lot of people don't pronounce Detroit like the locals in Michigan do. Then again how locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
I take you aren't a fan of it being spun into acronym form via use of "CDA?"
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
So you pronounce
all of these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_locations_in_Canada_with_an_English_name#Quebec) 'correctly'?
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
Fond du Lac, WI. No attempt of the French pronunciation.
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2025, 12:15:31 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
So you pronounce all of these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_locations_in_Canada_with_an_English_name#Quebec) 'correctly'?
Yeah, because unlike English speakers with French names, we can pronounce English names.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:18:50 PMYeah, because unlike English speakers with French names, we can pronounce English names.
You pronounce Sherbrooke and Shefford with English rhoticity?
Quote from: bandit957 on April 02, 2025, 10:57:51 PMI always pronounce Greenwich like "green witch", the way it's spelled.
But that is the correct way to pronounce it (https://images.app.goo.gl/fWCesQsmCtKgyXai6)...
(and yes, that's the real logo)
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 11:18:38 AMAny English speakers will mispronounce every city in Québec, as well as the province itself. No, it's not KWUH-beck, it's KAY-beck.
Case in point: Mawn TREE all
Although there actually is a meteorologist locally who pronounces Québec correctly (for anyone curious, it's Tim Drawbridge formerly of WTEN and now with WNYT)
Quote from: bandit957 on April 02, 2025, 10:57:51 PMSome place names can't really be pronounced, such as Banff.
Still surprised no one has commented on this. What's so hard about Banff?
We've done threads like this in here before, like how many of the national sports guys and gals get Green Bay wrong. it is not 'GREEN bay', it is 'green bay' (equal soft emphasis on both words).
( There are two kinds of people - those with IN-sure-ance' and those with 'in-SURE-ance'. )
Mike
My neighbor would mispronounce Kissimmee, FL.
He would say Kiss ah Me. It's Ki- sem- me.
Then folks mispronounce Mobile, AL. Most say it fast, but a quick pause in between Moh and Beel empathizing the second syllable is the way Alabamans say it.
Bamph National Park...
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 01:14:55 PMQuote from: bandit957 on April 02, 2025, 10:57:51 PMSome place names can't really be pronounced, such as Banff.
Still surprised no one has commented on this. What's so hard about Banff?
I'm truly Banff-led.
I'm usually somewhat neurotic when it comes to pronouncing things correctly, although I vividly remember being in elementary school and being forced to pronounce and spell Middlesex (County) "Middle
six" because - being children - my classmates would snicker at the "sex" part of it, causing the teacher to be annoyed.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 01:14:55 PMQuote from: bandit957 on April 02, 2025, 10:57:51 PMSome place names can't really be pronounced, such as Banff.
Still surprised no one has commented on this. What's so hard about Banff?
The 'n' always comes out as 'm'.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 03, 2025, 01:45:18 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 01:14:55 PMQuote from: bandit957 on April 02, 2025, 10:57:51 PMSome place names can't really be pronounced, such as Banff.
Still surprised no one has commented on this. What's so hard about Banff?
The 'n' always comes out as 'm'.
If you were using the International Phonetic Alphabet, the sound that you use for the written 'n' in 'Banff' is
ɱ, which is a labiodental nasal, or essentially, a blend between English 'm' and 'n'.
I'm confused now.
In 'Banff', I pronounce the n as a normal n. Ban - ff.
Wikipedia says that ɱ is like the m in symphony. I pronounce that letter as a normal m. Sim - fuh - nee.
In New York, you can always tell the people who aren't familiar with the city because they don't know how to pronounce "Houston Street." (For those unfamiliar, it's like HOW-stun, not YOU-stun like the city in Texas.)
Regarding Banff, I've never had any problem with it, and like kphoger I've always understood the "n" to be a normal "n."
Norfolk, Va. I always pronounced it "Norfork."
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMA lot of people don't pronounce Detroit like the locals in Michigan do. Then again how locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
I pronounce it like Paul Stanley sings it.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 02, 2025, 10:57:51 PMLots of cool people pronounce the 's' in Illinois.
I only do this when saying "Cicero, Illinois" because I like saying it like Big Jule in Guys & Dolls.
Not sure if that makes me cool or not.
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2025, 01:57:09 PMI'm confused now.
In 'Banff', I pronounce the n as a normal n. Ban - ff.
Wikipedia says that ɱ is like the m in symphony. I pronounce that letter as a normal m. Sim - fuh - nee.
Warning: Linguistic nerdiness incoming.
When you need to switch the area of articulation from one area of the mouth to another, it's very, very common for the phoneme to "blur" or "glide". Since 'n' is pronounced on the alveolar ridge and 'f' is labiodental, the 'n' comes forward to "meet" the 'f' and that's why the result is 'ɱ'.
You don't hear the difference as an English speaker because 'ɱ' is just an allophone of 'n' or 'm'. It's a sound that is produced differently but your brain processes it as another letter because the differentiation of the two sounds doesn't matter for understanding the meaning of words. But, in other languages 'm', 'ɱ', and 'n' are separate phonemes, meaning that 'ma', 'ɱa', and 'na' could be three different words with unique definitions.
A more common example that's easy to understand for English speakers is 't' vs. 't
h'. In English, they're just allophones and sound alike, but it's very easy to see that they're produced differently. If you hold your hand in front of your mouth and say 'top' and 'stop', you'll feel the difference that there's no puff of breath for 'stop', meaning it's an unaspirated 't', vs. the puff of air you get with 'top' which would phonetically be spelled 't
hɒp'. But 't' and 't
h' are different phonemes (letters) completely in a lot of languages, like Thai and several Indian languages off the top of my head.
tl;dr, if you looked at a sonograph, you would see that the 'n' in Banff is neither a pure 'n' nor 'm', but something in between.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 02:11:31 PMWarning: Linguistic nerdiness incoming.
When you need to switch the area of articulation from one area of the mouth to another, it's very, very common for the phoneme to "blur" or "glide". Since 'n' is pronounced on the alveolar ridge and 'f' is labiodental, the 'n' comes forward to "meet" the 'f' and that's why the result is 'ɱ'.
You don't hear the difference as an English speaker because 'ɱ' is just an allophone of 'n' or 'm'. It's a sound that is produced differently but your brain processes it as another letter because the differentiation of the two sounds doesn't matter for understanding the meaning of words. But, in other languages 'm', 'ɱ', and 'n' are separate phonemes, meaning that 'ma', 'ɱa', and 'na' could be three different words with unique definitions.
A more common example that's easy to understand for English speakers is 't' vs. 'th'. In English, they're just allophones and sound alike, but it's very easy to see that they're produced differently. If you hold your hand in front of your mouth and say 'top' and 'stop', you'll feel the difference that there's no puff of breath for 'stop', meaning it's an unaspirated 't', vs. the puff of air you get with 'top' which would phonetically be spelled 'thɒp'. But 't' and 'th' are different phonemes (letters) completely in a lot of languages, like Thai and several Indian languages off the top of my head.
tl;dr, if you looked at a sonograph, you would see that the 'n' in Banff is neither a pure 'n' nor 'm', but something in between.
Warning: more linguistic nerdiness incoming.
What I mean is that I don't pronounce the 'n' in Banff as a labiodental
anything. The tip of my tongue touches my alveolar ridge for the 'n' and at no point touches my front teeth. When I say the word Banff, my tongue does exactly what it does for the word Ban.
Likewise, as I was saying about the Wikipedia article about ɱ, I do not pronounce the 'm' in Symphony as a labiodental
anything. I say it just as I would in the word Dim, then form the 'f'. There might be a slight 'p' puff as my lips separate, but that's it—and should further illustrate that it wasn't labiodental in the first place.
Matteson IL. Looks like Matte-son, but pronounced Mat-tes-on, confusingly close to Madison.
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2025, 02:46:11 PMWarning: more linguistic nerdiness incoming.
What I mean is that I don't pronounce the 'n' in Banff as a labiodental anything. The tip of my tongue touches my alveolar ridge for the 'n' and at no point touches my front teeth. When I say the word Banff, my tongue does exactly what it does for the word Ban.
Likewise, as I was saying about the Wikipedia article about ɱ, I do not pronounce the 'm' in Symphony as a labiodental anything. I say it just as I would in the word Dim, then form the 'f'. There might be a slight 'p' puff as my lips separate, but that's it—and should further illustrate that it wasn't labiodental in the first place.
Hmm. When I pause myself transitioning from the 'n' to 'f' in Banff, I find my tongue is more advanced and slightly on the back of my teeth with my mouth slightly open. Maybe we just pronounce it differently. Plenty of people have different articulations for different sounds. (I actually wrote a seminar paper on the topic.)
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 03:01:49 PMHmm. When I pause myself transitioning from the 'n' to 'f' in Banff, I find my tongue is more advanced and slightly on the back of my teeth with my mouth slightly open. Maybe we just pronounce it differently. Plenty of people have different articulations for different sounds. (I actually wrote a seminar paper on the topic.)
That's what I'm thinking. It's true that my lower lip is already reaching for my teeth (for the 'ff') while I'm saying the 'n', but it has no bearing on the pronunciation of the 'n'.
My wife also makes fun of me for pronouncing Esther as Ess-thurr instead of Ess-turr. To me, her way just seems wrong but, now that I listen, everyone else says it her way too.
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2025, 03:06:48 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 03:01:49 PMHmm. When I pause myself transitioning from the 'n' to 'f' in Banff, I find my tongue is more advanced and slightly on the back of my teeth with my mouth slightly open. Maybe we just pronounce it differently. Plenty of people have different articulations for different sounds. (I actually wrote a seminar paper on the topic.)
That's what I'm thinking. It's true that my lower lip is already reaching for my teeth (for the 'ff') while I'm saying the 'n', but it has no bearing on the pronunciation of the 'n'.
My wife also makes fun of me for pronouncing Esther as Ess-thurr instead of Ess-turr. To me, her way just seems wrong but, now that I listen, everyone else says it her way too.
It definitely, at a minimum, makes my 'n' dental.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 11:18:38 AMAny English speakers will mispronounce every city in Québec, as well as the province itself. No, it's not KWUH-beck, it's KAY-beck.
I also make a point to refer to residents as « Québécois(e) » rather than "Quebeckers," which seems to be the consensus in English-speaking Canada. It just seems awfully offensive in a way that "Mexicans" doesn't, for example.
Quote from: Big John on April 02, 2025, 11:58:09 PMWar cess ter MA
I usually pronounce that as "war-ses-STER", what it looks like. How one gets "woo-STAH" out of it blows my mind.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
Considering that the trappers butchered (or outright ignored) the names of the indigenous tribes, it's only fair that we mangle their silly names.
Core-da-lane, Pond-oh-ray, and Call-ville are all the correct pronunciations in Cascadia.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
It's not wrong. Just because a place name's origin is French, that doesn't mean that the pronounciation needs to remain in French when its not the language spoken by the locals.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on April 03, 2025, 04:48:11 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
It's not wrong. Just because a place name's origin is French, that doesn't mean that the pronounciation needs to remain in French when its not the language spoken by the locals.
I can understand the reaction. Growing up in a place where "Faribault" and "Cloquet" are pronounced in a very close approximation of the French way, hearing the way Michiganders pronounce "Calumet" feels pretty jarring. I also had to train myself not to say "Bel-wah" when referring to Beloit, Wisconsin.
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 03, 2025, 04:54:05 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 03, 2025, 04:48:11 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
It's not wrong. Just because a place name's origin is French, that doesn't mean that the pronounciation needs to remain in French when its not the language spoken by the locals.
I can understand the reaction. Growing up in a place where "Faribault" and "Cloquet" are pronounced in a very close approximation of the French way, hearing the way Michiganders pronounce "Calumet" feels pretty jarring.
Sure, but the reaction is misguided. Place names have done this throughout history. There are countless examples in Europe of cities that were pronounced differently depending on the majority language spoken at the time.
Here (https://www.wpr.org/culture/ouisconsin-why-so-many-places-wisconsin-have-french-name) is a Wisconsin Public Radio article on the many place names in Wisconsin with French origins.
"As any descriptive linguist worth their weight in salt will tell you, there's actually no "right" or "wrong" way to say things.
"There are established ways," Salmons said. "(The Wisconsin pronunciations) are not wrong; they're established local norms, and those local norms change over time."
Minnesotans also do not pronounce Calumet the French way, nor do we say 'Nicollet' the French way (unlike Wisconsinites, I believe, who say nick-uh-lay).
Not even going to bring up Mille Lacs in the Minnesota discussion? :)
Quote from: flan on April 03, 2025, 05:05:20 PMMinnesotans also do not pronounce Calumet the French way, nor do we say 'Nicollet' the French way (unlike Wisconsinites, I believe, who say nick-uh-lay).
The Minnesota Nicollet and the Wisconsin Nicolet (one L) were different people.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 02:11:31 PMtl;dr, if you looked at a sonograph, you would see that the 'n' in Banff is neither a pure 'n' nor 'm', but something in between.
Kind of like the Japanese "n"
hatsuon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%93).
Note: my hearing has never been very good - I wear hearing aids - so I mishear lots of fine-tuned sounds and I tend to have a lot of aural latitude for other speakers thanks to hearing a different American Englishese Accent every week.
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 02, 2025, 11:20:42 PMNone. I view it as a sign of respect to pronounce place names as the locals do if you're in the know about it.
All well and good...but when you live 25 years near Miami, Florida; going to Miami, Oklahoma for a few days presented me with The Miami Problem (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/2012/06/20/miami-ok-and-miami-fla-a-difference-in-pronunciation-and-thunder-and-heat/61064198007/).
The solution was that I just thought of it as a different place and city (and they are!) and didn't think about the spelling as much just defaulting to a schwa.
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2025, 12:28:15 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:18:50 PMYeah, because unlike English speakers with French names, we can pronounce English names.
You pronounce Sherbrooke and Shefford with English rhoticity?
I've never heard Liliana speak, but I watch a guy on YouTube who lives in Sherbrooke, and he pronounces it just like you would expect it to be pronounced in English. (He mostly speaks English on YouTube; I don't know if he changes the pronunciation when he speaks in French, since he mostly uses French on his channel for math and swearing.)
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2025, 12:28:15 PMYou pronounce Sherbrooke and Shefford with English rhoticity?
To my hearing this word sounds a lot like
Rotisserie and I was ready to make a chicken joke and confusion would ensue.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 05:11:55 PMNot even going to bring up Mille Lacs in the Minnesota discussion? :)
I have in-laws up in Mille Lacs County. As I recall, they pronounce it Mulax.
Quote from: SectorZ on April 03, 2025, 10:57:53 AMThe defunct town of Greenwich MA was actually pronounced "Green Witch". I don't believe any others were pronounced in such a way.
No doubt they inspired the Wizard of Oz
Edit: Adding to the coincidence, the town was destroyed by... water (it was flooded by the creation of the Quabbin reservoir)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich,_Massachusetts
Quote from: Big John on April 03, 2025, 02:58:15 PMMatteson IL. Looks like Matte-son, but pronounced Mat-tes-on, confusingly close to Madison.
Heh. Mat-te-son is more natural to me on this one.
Quote from: Big John on April 03, 2025, 05:26:25 PMThe Minnesota Nicollet and the Wisconsin Nicolet (one L) were different people.
Both were French, though. I would be surprised if Joseph Nicollet pronounced the T at the end of his name.
Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2025, 04:18:25 PMQuote from: Big John on April 02, 2025, 11:58:09 PMWar cess ter MA
I usually pronounce that as "war-ses-STER", what it looks like. How one gets "woo-STAH" out of it blows my mind.
For some dumb reason, as a kid I always thought the name had an H in the middle, making it "Worchester", and pronounced it almost the same way as Dorchester (the main difference being "were" instead of "wore" for the first syllable).
Back to the "green witch" reference pertaining to Greenwich, the way the city in CT and time zone are pronounced can also inspire another famous green character, as if you say it fast enough, you get "grinch".
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2025, 06:10:21 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 05:11:55 PMNot even going to bring up Mille Lacs in the Minnesota discussion? :)
I have in-laws up in Mille Lacs County. As I recall, they pronounce it Mulax.
More 'Mill-axe".
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 03, 2025, 04:54:05 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 03, 2025, 04:48:11 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
It's not wrong. Just because a place name's origin is French, that doesn't mean that the pronounciation needs to remain in French when its not the language spoken by the locals.
I can understand the reaction. Growing up in a place where "Faribault" and "Cloquet" are pronounced in a very close approximation of the French way, hearing the way Michiganders pronounce "Calumet" feels pretty jarring. I also had to train myself not to say "Bel-wah" when referring to Beloit, Wisconsin.
Calumet City, Illinois is also very much not pronounced the French way. On the topic of Chicago suburbs, Joliet isn't either, and Des Plaines is especially far off.
Good thing I don't have to mention Buena Vista, Colorado often. As a native Spanish speaker I would likely "butcher" that, by pronouncing it the way it should be. It is not written "Biuna Vista" after all, like they insist to say it.
And I really like to mispronounce Greenwich as "Berbegal" :bigass:, especially in reference to the Meridian (even though it is not the same as GPS Zero, the IERS Meridian, and I've redefined my "Berbegal Meridian" to match this one instead).
Cairo, Illinois for me is "ky-ro" and not "kay-ro" as the local pronunciation is.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on April 04, 2025, 03:59:27 AMGood thing I don't have to mention Buena Vista, Colorado often. As a native Spanish speaker I would likely "butcher" that, by pronouncing it the way it should be. It is not written "Biuna Vista" after all, like they insist to say it.
And I really like to mispronounce Greenwich as "Berbegal" :bigass:, especially in reference to the Meridian (even though it is not the same as GPS Zero, the IERS Meridian, and I've redefined my "Berbegal Meridian" to match this one instead).
See Buena Vista, VA
In the Quad Cities area...
Orion, IL is pronounced OR-ee-un
Milan, IL is pronounced MY-lun
Camanche, IA is pronounced KA-manch
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2025, 06:10:21 PMQuoteNot even going to bring up Mille Lacs in the Minnesota discussion? :)
I have in-laws up in Mille Lacs County. As I recall, they pronounce it Mulax.
I can concur with this from how I have heard it pronounced. Maybe
slightly closer to
Millax, but that's pretty close.
Edit:
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 11:20:29 PMMore 'Mill-axe".
Whoops, I missed this! Point stands :)
I pronounce Mulax (but not Mille Lacs) "mew-lax".
Sorry, I had a hard time communicating that pronunciation in text form. What I've heard is more like M'lax.
I'm sure there locales with tons of mispronounced words. Off the top of my head:
NY - Valatie (Va-lay-sha)
OH - Russia (near Toledo) (ROO-she)
I don't know how either happens, but as they say "It is what it is" :spin:
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on April 04, 2025, 03:59:27 AMGood thing I don't have to mention Buena Vista, Colorado often. As a native Spanish speaker I would likely "butcher" that, by pronouncing it the way it should be. It is not written "Biuna Vista" after all, like they insist to say it.
We used to have an office in NW Arkansas, and we had a Mexican-American tech there for years. One of the towns we serviced in the area was Bella Vista, which of course is pronounced Bell-uh Viss-tuh. But whenever he called in and got me on the phone, knowing I speak Spanish, he'd pronounce it the Spanish way, and often in an over-the-top way, like Beh-yah Veeeeeees-tah.
A lot of people in this area pronounce Hutchinson as if it were Hutchison.
I used to pronounce Neodesha as Nee-oh-DEE-shuh, till I found out it's actually Nee-OH-duh-shay.
Similarly, I used to pronounce Chickasha (OK) as CHICK-uh-shaw, till I found out it's CHICK-uh-shay.
And I'm still not sure if Cotulla (TX) is Kuh-TULL-uh or Kuh-TYOO-luh. Maybe both are correct. I go back and forth between, so it's possibly I get it wrong half the time. But at least not all the time!
Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on April 03, 2025, 11:57:26 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on April 03, 2025, 04:54:05 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 03, 2025, 04:48:11 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
It's not wrong. Just because a place name's origin is French, that doesn't mean that the pronounciation needs to remain in French when its not the language spoken by the locals.
I can understand the reaction. Growing up in a place where "Faribault" and "Cloquet" are pronounced in a very close approximation of the French way, hearing the way Michiganders pronounce "Calumet" feels pretty jarring. I also had to train myself not to say "Bel-wah" when referring to Beloit, Wisconsin.
Calumet City, Illinois is also very much not pronounced the French way. On the topic of Chicago suburbs, Joliet isn't either, and Des Plaines is especially far off.
Ditto Calumet County, WI.
Mike
About 30 years ago, all the libraries around here had a book listing all the Kentucky place names and how they were pronounced. It was a yellow and blue book. But I haven't seen it in an awfully long time.
In my experience, this is at least 95% accurate:
https://www.texasalmanac.com/drupal-backup/images/topics/TownPronunciationGuide.pdf
Quote from: kphoger on April 04, 2025, 09:11:07 AMSorry, I had a hard time communicating that pronunciation in text form. What I've heard is more like M'lax.
This is pretty accurate. It's mostly schwa.
Meanwhile, France just neatly sidesteps the whole matter by changing the spelling of the place name. They don't pronounce Dunkirk correctly, so they just change it to Dunkerque instead.
We should do this. Des Moines becomes Demoin. Baton Rouge becomes Battin Rouge. Saint Paul stays the same.
Soo Saint Marie
Quote from: kphoger on April 04, 2025, 10:49:34 AMMeanwhile, France just neatly sidesteps the whole matter by changing the spelling of the place name. They don't pronounce Dunkirk correctly, so they just change it to Dunkerque instead.
Again, this is common in Europe.
Quote from: Big John on April 04, 2025, 10:58:27 AMSoo Saint Marie
Yep, Sault Sainte Marie ('Saint Mary's Falls' in French). One print news reporter from a couple of decades ago spelled the name of the railroad that was named after it (the 'SOO LINE') as 'Sioux Line'.
:-P
Mike
I have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac and as a matter of fact I have never heard anyone mispronounce it either. I've seen people misspell it (Mackinaw instead of Mackinac) but that's about it.
Quote from: Big John on April 04, 2025, 10:58:27 AMSoo Saint Marie
Sault Ste. Marie but it means Rapids of St. Mary in English.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 04, 2025, 11:34:00 AMI have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac and as a matter of fact I have never heard anyone mispronounce it either. I've seen people misspell it (Mackinaw instead of Mackinac) but that's about it.
How about misspelling Mackinaw City?
The only time I've heard someone else pronounce "Mackinac" here, which was earlier this year, had the c at the end pronounced.
Quote from: kphoger on April 04, 2025, 11:50:49 AMQuote from: Flint1979 on April 04, 2025, 11:34:00 AMI have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac and as a matter of fact I have never heard anyone mispronounce it either. I've seen people misspell it (Mackinaw instead of Mackinac) but that's about it.
How about misspelling Mackinaw City?
I haven't seen that one misspelled. I do know the trend there though, all Upper Peninsula places are spelled Mackinac and all Lower Peninsula places are spelled Mackinaw. Like Mackinac Trail, Mackinac County, Mackinac Island, Mackinac Bridge. Then Lower Peninsula has Mackinaw Trail, Mackinaw City, Mackinaw Road. I honestly didn't realize until recently that Saginaw and Mackinaw have the same last four letters and I've been spelling those words all my life.
Quote from: hotdogPi on April 04, 2025, 11:55:30 AMThe only time I've heard someone else pronounce "Mackinac" here, which was earlier this year, had the c at the end pronounced.
I've heard people pronounce it Mack-in-ack but I don't know if they are being sarcastic or serious.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on April 04, 2025, 03:59:27 AMGood thing I don't have to mention Buena Vista, Colorado often. As a native Spanish speaker I would likely "butcher" that, by pronouncing it the way it should be. It is not written "Biuna Vista" after all, like they insist to say it.
It does hurt my soul a little bit to say "Byoona", pero cuando en Roma...
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 04, 2025, 11:34:00 AMI have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac and as a matter of fact I have never heard anyone mispronounce it either. I've seen people misspell it (Mackinaw instead of Mackinac) but that's about it.
That's because you're from Michigan. I have heard it mispronounced many times.
Quote from: epzik8 on April 04, 2025, 07:02:09 AMCairo, Illinois for me is "ky-ro" and not "kay-ro" as the local pronunciation is.
I always have to be careful with our Cairo for the same reason. Meanwhile, I have to be careful with the original Medina because I tend to pronounce it like the one in Orleans County. Somehow I don't have the same problem with Chili.
Quote from: route17fan on April 04, 2025, 09:13:39 AMNY - Valatie (Va-lay-sha)
I think you can blame the Dutch for that.
Quote from: kphoger on April 04, 2025, 10:49:34 AMMeanwhile, France just neatly sidesteps the whole matter by changing the spelling of the place name. They don't pronounce Dunkirk correctly, so they just change it to Dunkerque instead.
We should do this. Des Moines becomes Demoin. Baton Rouge becomes Battin Rouge. Saint Paul stays the same.
Seems to be par the course for romance languages given how many irregular verbs in both Spanish and French are the result of changing the spelling so that the pronunciation won't be affected while the verb is conjugated. In English we just say "screw that, people can just remember to say it the way it's said and not how it's spelled" (to the rejoicing of spelling bee champions and cursing of language learners).
Quote from: vdeane on April 03, 2025, 12:53:39 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 11:18:38 AMAny English speakers will mispronounce every city in Québec, as well as the province itself. No, it's not KWUH-beck, it's KAY-beck.
Case in point: Mawn TREE all
Although there actually is a meteorologist locally who pronounces Québec correctly (for anyone curious, it's Tim Drawbridge formerly of WTEN and now with WNYT)
According to Wikipedia, it's MUN-tree-AWL in Canadian English. I say it more like how you wrote it, but not quite. I don't know much about this topic, so I don't really know how to describe it, but to me it feels more like mont REE yahl. The T feels like part of the first syllable. I don't hear a "tree," but the sounds blend because of how well those letters go together. It's like a place called Mont Ree pronounced like "montree" with the emphasis on the second half.
I think what I'm saying, and maybe someone can explain this, is that the R, not the T, feels like the beginning of the emphasis. That seems to be how the letters combine. "Tree" is an "upward" word, since you can't emphasize the T without changing the word, like "TUH ree." I think it has to do with how staccato sounds blend. I took a music class, so I know what staccato is, but I never learned much about linguistics.
The Y I included in my pronunciation is a result of combining the ee and awl sounds. I included the Y to blend the sounds together. The way it's written in the quote, and on Wikipedia, to me looks more like three words. They describe the syllables in a way that divides them. The way I wrote it was meant to combine the syllables. The way I read "mawn TREE" sounds like two words, but the way I read "mont REE" sound like one. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Similarly, I read "REE awl" as divided sounds. It isn't a glottal stop, but it's more gently divided. It's like they split the syllables to clarify that there's no Y sound combining them. (To me, there shouldn't be implied sounds. If you hear a Y, you write it.) I read "REE yahl" as a blended sound, which is how I pronounce that part of "Montreal," which is like the audio on Wikipedia other than the sound of the O.
I never studied this topic, but it's one I've gained an interest in. I'd enjoy reading an informed opinion on the matter.
Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2025, 04:18:25 PMQuote from: Big John on April 02, 2025, 11:58:09 PMWar cess ter MA
I usually pronounce that as "war-ses-STER", what it looks like. How one gets "woo-STAH" out of it blows my mind.
I thought about this because of Worcestershire sauce (I never knew that was capitalized). I wanted to know how to pronounce it, and then I wanted to know why we say it that way. I've heard Worcester pronounced on The Weather Channel as "wooster" (with the "oo" sounding more like "wool" and not like "wooing").
I see it as a result of the state law banning the letter R in Massachusetts. "Worce" is one syllable, possibly sounding something like "wahs." They adjust the vowel a little and run straight into the "ster" at the end, getting rid of the first E. According to Wikipedia, Worcestershire is pronounced about the same in England as the sauce, so the Massachusettsian pronunciation of Worcester seems to honor the mother tongue.
I used to mispronounce Osceola (the town in Iowa) as ah-see-OLE-uh.
I think it was on Amtrak that I learned it's actually oh-see-OLE-uh.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 03, 2025, 01:45:18 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on April 03, 2025, 01:14:55 PMQuote from: bandit957 on April 02, 2025, 10:57:51 PMSome place names can't really be pronounced, such as Banff.
Still surprised no one has commented on this. What's so hard about Banff?
The 'n' always comes out as 'm'.
I have the same problem, Bamff is easier and more natural for me than Banff.
Quote from: kphoger on April 04, 2025, 01:36:31 PMI used to mispronounce Osceola (the town in Iowa) as ah-see-OLE-uh.
I think it was on Amtrak that I learned it's actually oh-see-OLE-uh.
I pronounce Osceola, Texas the same as your mispronunciation of the town in Iowa. The only time I remember hearing someone say it, the first O was the long vowel sound, but that sounded wrong to me. The town isn't in an isolated area, but it's very small. It's the kind of place you drive through, but you never actually meet anyone from there.
I seem to remember someone on The Weather Channel saying "Osceola" starting with the short O. I seem to think it was in Florida. They're not always right, but they try to be right. (That was the case years ago when I watched, back when they reported on the weather. [I loved the channel back then. I would watch it for hours even when no big weather was happening.])
The Texas pronunciation guide says it's "7 s4 ¶ luh." Apparently I can't copy and paste from that file and get the same figures. It says it starts with a long O. I've never known the guide to be wrong.
I will always say Humble, TX (Houston suburb) with the H. "HUM-bull"
I honestly don't know the correct pronunciation because I hear just as many people pronounce it like they also do the adjective humble, with silent H, like your would with hour or honor. I just can't do it.
Also Corinth, TX. Can't always bring myself to give the second syllable the accent. I want to say CORE-inth not cur-INTH.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned New Orleans. I always felt like more people in the rest of the country prefer saying New or-LEENZ :crazy:
Quote from: Rothman on April 04, 2025, 07:15:32 AMSee Buena Vista, VA
That might not be a good example. The same folks that say "Beh-YOU-na VEES-ta", also pronounce the neighboring town of Natural Bridge as "NATCH-you-lerr BRIDGE".
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 04, 2025, 11:34:00 AMI have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac
No MI natives, anyway.
We were talking with someone from out of state and they mentioned they were next traveling to Mackinac Island, pronounced it with the "ack" at the end. I told them that if they didn't want to sound like outsiders, it should be "aw".
I think I heard "ack" on Jeopardy once too.
Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on April 03, 2025, 11:57:26 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on April 03, 2025, 04:54:05 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 03, 2025, 04:48:11 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
It's not wrong. Just because a place name's origin is French, that doesn't mean that the pronounciation needs to remain in French when its not the language spoken by the locals.
I can understand the reaction. Growing up in a place where "Faribault" and "Cloquet" are pronounced in a very close approximation of the French way, hearing the way Michiganders pronounce "Calumet" feels pretty jarring. I also had to train myself not to say "Bel-wah" when referring to Beloit, Wisconsin.
Calumet City, Illinois is also very much not pronounced the French way. On the topic of Chicago suburbs, Joliet isn't either, and Des Plaines is especially far off.
Joliet is pronounced close to the French way other than the "J" (and even that varies from speaker to speaker). The explorer (Louis Joliet) spelled his name before standard French spelling rules were set, so you have the two spellings, "Joliet" and "Jolliet". The family is still around, and a city in Quebec is named for one of Louis's descendants, a Barthélemy Joliette. When standard spelling for French was introduced, the name was modified, but still pronounced the same.
Quote from: TheCatalyst31 on April 03, 2025, 11:57:26 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on April 03, 2025, 04:54:05 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on April 03, 2025, 04:48:11 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 12:11:16 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2025, 11:39:38 AMhow locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.
Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.
It's not wrong. Just because a place name's origin is French, that doesn't mean that the pronounciation needs to remain in French when its not the language spoken by the locals.
I can understand the reaction. Growing up in a place where "Faribault" and "Cloquet" are pronounced in a very close approximation of the French way, hearing the way Michiganders pronounce "Calumet" feels pretty jarring. I also had to train myself not to say "Bel-wah" when referring to Beloit, Wisconsin.
Calumet City, Illinois is also very much not pronounced the French way. On the topic of Chicago suburbs, Joliet isn't either, and Des Plaines is especially far off.
I've always called Calumet City, Illinois just Cal City anyway.
Quote from: wxfree on April 04, 2025, 01:02:54 PMQuote from: vdeane on April 03, 2025, 12:53:39 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 03, 2025, 11:18:38 AMAny English speakers will mispronounce every city in Québec, as well as the province itself. No, it's not KWUH-beck, it's KAY-beck.
Case in point: Mawn TREE all
Although there actually is a meteorologist locally who pronounces Québec correctly (for anyone curious, it's Tim Drawbridge formerly of WTEN and now with WNYT)
According to Wikipedia, it's MUN-tree-AWL in Canadian English. I say it more like how you wrote it, but not quite. I don't know much about this topic, so I don't really know how to describe it, but to me it feels more like mont REE yahl. The T feels like part of the first syllable. I don't hear a "tree," but the sounds blend because of how well those letters go together. It's like a place called Mont Ree pronounced like "montree" with the emphasis on the second half.
I think what I'm saying, and maybe someone can explain this, is that the R, not the T, feels like the beginning of the emphasis. That seems to be how the letters combine. "Tree" is an "upward" word, since you can't emphasize the T without changing the word, like "TUH ree." I think it has to do with how staccato sounds blend. I took a music class, so I know what staccato is, but I never learned much about linguistics.
The Y I included in my pronunciation is a result of combining the ee and awl sounds. I included the Y to blend the sounds together. The way it's written in the quote, and on Wikipedia, to me looks more like three words. They describe the syllables in a way that divides them. The way I wrote it was meant to combine the syllables. The way I read "mawn TREE" sounds like two words, but the way I read "mont REE" sound like one. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Similarly, I read "REE awl" as divided sounds. It isn't a glottal stop, but it's more gently divided. It's like they split the syllables to clarify that there's no Y sound combining them. (To me, there shouldn't be implied sounds. If you hear a Y, you write it.) I read "REE yahl" as a blended sound, which is how I pronounce that part of "Montreal," which is like the audio on Wikipedia other than the sound of the O.
I never studied this topic, but it's one I've gained an interest in. I'd enjoy reading an informed opinion on the matter.
Maybe the way I had it is just Americans? If I'm interpreting what you wrote correctly, it sounds closer to the French pronunciation than the American one.
Speaking of Americans mispronouncing Canadian cities - tor ron toe
Quote from: GaryV on April 04, 2025, 09:40:43 PMQuote from: Flint1979 on April 04, 2025, 11:34:00 AMI have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac
No MI natives, anyway.
We were talking with someone from out of state and they mentioned they were next traveling to Mackinac Island, pronounced it with the "ack" at the end. I told them that if they didn't want to sound like outsiders, it should be "aw".
I think I heard "ack" on Jeopardy once too.
I did when I was in school once. My meteorology professor grew up in Michigan. A group of us students were discussing a large storm passing thru that area and I mispronounced the island. Across the room was his voice correcting me as soon as it came out of my mouth.
This is the same guy who once dinged me on a test for misspelling Gray ME.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 04, 2025, 10:36:26 AMAbout 30 years ago, all the libraries around here had a book listing all the Kentucky place names and how they were pronounced. It was a yellow and blue book. But I haven't seen it in an awfully long time.
Sounds like it's "Kentucky Place Names (https://search.worldcat.org/title/16984532)" by Robert M. Rennick. There's a digitized version (broken up by letter) available from the Morehead State University Library: https://scholarworks.moreheadstate.edu/rennick_ms_collection/
Buena Vista here is pronounced how it's spelled instead of the real way it's pronounced, wenna-vesta. Whatever the case it means good view and there is nothing good about the view in Buena Vista Township. The western side of it is an overrun from the ghettos of the east side of Saginaw but it starts getting nicer after you get east of Towerline Road.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 05, 2025, 07:41:11 PMBuena Vista ... Whatever the case it means good view
There's a street in Las Vegas called Calico Vista, which I guess means "view of a cat".
I got a confession for y'all. That whole time we had Poiponen getting the name of his crush filtered to Sault Sainte John Madden...I didn't mentally pronounce it correctly once.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 05, 2025, 07:41:11 PMBuena Vista here is pronounced how it's spelled instead of the real way it's pronounced
Considering that there are no common non-foreign words in the English language that either begin with bue- or end with -uen, I don't really have a concept for what you mean by 'pronounced how it's spelled'. The closest I can get is the word 'imbue', which
ends with -bue.
But, in contrast, see the words blue, clue, due, glue, & sue.
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2025, 08:55:31 AMQuote from: Flint1979 on April 05, 2025, 07:41:11 PMBuena Vista here is pronounced how it's spelled instead of the real way it's pronounced
Considering that there are no common non-foreign words in the English language that either begin with bue- or end with -uen, I don't really have a concept for what you mean by 'pronounced how it's spelled'. The closest I can get is the word 'imbue', which ends with -bue.
But, in contrast, see the words blue, clue, due, glue, & sue.
Buh-nuh Vis-ta or in short just BV.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 07, 2025, 09:06:29 AMBuh-nuh Vis-ta
So... Bunna? Because I assume
buh and
nuh rhyme?
Quote from: flan on April 03, 2025, 05:05:20 PMMinnesotans also do not pronounce Calumet the French way, nor do we say 'Nicollet' the French way (unlike Wisconsinites, I believe, who say nick-uh-lay).
Well, the Nicolet Law guy will change Minnesotans' habits on this subject. :bigass:
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 05, 2025, 07:41:11 PMBuena Vista here is pronounced how it's spelled instead of the real way it's pronounced, wenna-vesta.
I'm confused by this sentence. 'B' is not silent in Spanish and the vowels aren't the same in both words.
That town in Virginia that's embedded in roadgeek lore because of a wrong-way interstate concurrency?
It's pronounced "With-ville" but I can't help but pronounce it with a long "i" sound.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 07, 2025, 04:04:12 PMThat town in Virginia that's embedded in roadgeek lore because of a wrong-way interstate concurrency?
It's pronounced "With-ville" but I can't help but pronounce it with a long "i" sound.
Huh. Out of all of these, this one took me the most off-guard.
Quote from: kphoger on April 04, 2025, 01:36:31 PMI used to mispronounce Osceola (the town in Iowa) as ah-see-OLE-uh.
I think it was on Amtrak that I learned it's actually oh-see-OLE-uh.
There's Nevada, Iowa, which is pronounced nev-AY-da rather than like the state, my preferred pronunciation.
One I used to do when I lived in the Omaha area is Louisville, Nebraska, which I would pronounce like Louisville, Kentucky. I believe most of the Louisville place names in the USA pronounce it lou-is-ville rather than lou-ie-ville
Quote from: DandyDan on April 08, 2025, 05:04:42 AMThere's Nevada, Iowa, which is pronounced nev-AY-da rather than like the state, my preferred pronunciation.
Just as long as you can pronounce the state right. One thing that has opened my eyes since I moved to Nevada is that there are people who live in other states that will argue with you about how your own damn state is supposed to be pronounced.
Or as NDOT says (https://old.reddit.com/r/Nevada/comments/1j6psdu/nevawda/mgsk1h3/)...
Quote from: Nevada Department of TransportationEvery time someone says 'Nev-AH-da,' a tumbleweed sheds a single tear and rolls away in disappointment.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2025, 05:53:30 AMOr as NDOT says (https://old.reddit.com/r/Nevada/comments/1j6psdu/nevawda/mgsk1h3/)...
Quote from: Nevada Department of TransportationEvery time someone says 'Nev-AH-da,' a tumbleweed sheds a single tear and rolls away in disappointment.
And every time someone says 'Nev-ADD-a', a Spanish-speaker sheds a single tear.
Seriously, though, I wonder how many of Nevada's nearly 600,000 Spanish-speaking residents pronounce it the way it's spelled in Spanish instead of the 'correct' way.
Quote from: DandyDan on April 08, 2025, 05:04:42 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 04, 2025, 01:36:31 PMI used to mispronounce Osceola (the town in Iowa) as ah-see-OLE-uh.
I think it was on Amtrak that I learned it's actually oh-see-OLE-uh.
There's Nevada, Iowa, which is pronounced nev-AY-da rather than like the state, my preferred pronunciation.
One I used to do when I lived in the Omaha area is Louisville, Nebraska, which I would pronounce like Louisville, Kentucky. I believe most of the Louisville place names in the USA pronounce it lou-is-ville rather than lou-ie-ville
The Missouri version of Nevada is also pronounced with the long 'a'.
I don't think I will ever get Worcester, MA right. :bigass:
Well, then get Waupaca, Weyauwega, Mukwanago, Oconomowoc, Sheboygan, Manitowoc and Menasha here in Wisconsin right!
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on April 08, 2025, 01:31:03 PMWell, then get Waupaca, Weyauwega, Mukwanago, Oconomowoc, Sheboygan, Manitowoc and Menasha here in Wisconsin right!
Yes, Wisconsin has some fun ones. But how to people mispronounce Sheboygan? That one seems obvious to me.
Quote from: mgk920 on April 08, 2025, 01:31:03 PMWell, then get Waupaca, Weyauwega, Mukwanago, Oconomowoc, Sheboygan, Manitowoc and Menasha here in Wisconsin right!
Mike
The trick one is Shawano. Not pronounced exactly as spelled.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2025, 01:33:30 PMQuote from: mgk920 on April 08, 2025, 01:31:03 PMWell, then get Waupaca, Weyauwega, Mukwanago, Oconomowoc, Sheboygan, Manitowoc and Menasha here in Wisconsin right!
Yes, Wisconsin has some fun ones. But how to people mispronounce Sheboygan? That one seems obvious to me.
At least the Sheboygan sausages jingle should help with that.
"Got Sheboygan on my mind, Sheboygan!"
^^ Father of a newborn wanting a girl this time: What are we going to name her? Response: She's a boy again, condensed to Sheboygan.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2025, 01:33:30 PMQuote from: mgk920 on April 08, 2025, 01:31:03 PMWell, then get Waupaca, Weyauwega, Mukwanago, Oconomowoc, Sheboygan, Manitowoc and Menasha here in Wisconsin right!
Yes, Wisconsin has some fun ones. But how to people mispronounce Sheboygan? That one seems obvious to me.
It might help if Cheeseheads could spell Cheboygan right. :spin:
Quote from: Brandon on April 08, 2025, 04:57:31 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 08, 2025, 01:33:30 PMQuote from: mgk920 on April 08, 2025, 01:31:03 PMWell, then get Waupaca, Weyauwega, Mukwanago, Oconomowoc, Sheboygan, Manitowoc and Menasha here in Wisconsin right!
Yes, Wisconsin has some fun ones. But how to people mispronounce Sheboygan? That one seems obvious to me.
It might help if Cheeseheads could spell Cheboygan right. :spin:
or Zilwaukee? :)
For me, one such place is Oneonta NY. Never was sure of the correct pronunciation.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2025, 09:30:56 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2025, 05:53:30 AMOr as NDOT says (https://old.reddit.com/r/Nevada/comments/1j6psdu/nevawda/mgsk1h3/)...
Quote from: Nevada Department of TransportationEvery time someone says 'Nev-AH-da,' a tumbleweed sheds a single tear and rolls away in disappointment.
And every time someone says 'Nev-ADD-a', a Spanish-speaker sheds a single tear.
Seriously, though, I wonder how many of Nevada's nearly 600,000 Spanish-speaking residents pronounce it the way it's spelled in Spanish instead of the 'correct' way.
nevada means
snowy in Spanish, and
Nevada means
the driest U.S. state, so why should they be pronounced the same?
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2025, 06:17:59 PMnevada means snowy in Spanish, and Nevada means the driest U.S. state, so why should they be pronounced the same?
Does the Sierra Nevada not get snow?
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2025, 07:07:31 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2025, 06:17:59 PMnevada means snowy in Spanish, and Nevada means the driest U.S. state, so why should they be pronounced the same?
Does the Sierra Nevada not get snow?
It does. It also covers a very tiny fraction of the state. Certainly far less than the Great Basin or the Mojave Desert (the latter of which wasn't within Nevada's original boundaries).
If they had meant to be accurate with the state name, they would have named us Cuenca.
Quote from: Big John on April 08, 2025, 02:40:16 PMQuote from: mgk920 on April 08, 2025, 01:31:03 PMWell, then get Waupaca, Weyauwega, Mukwanago, Oconomowoc, Sheboygan, Manitowoc and Menasha here in Wisconsin right!
Mike
The trick one is Shawano. Not pronounced exactly as spelled.
'Shawano' is the easiest way of all for the locals here to tell the natives from the tourists ( AKA, 'FIBs' ).
Mike
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2025, 06:17:59 PMnevada means snowy in Spanish, and Nevada means the driest U.S. state, so why should they be pronounced the same?
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2025, 07:07:31 PMDoes the Sierra Nevada not get snow?
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 08, 2025, 07:09:39 PMIt does. It also covers a very tiny fraction of the state. Certainly far less than the Great Basin or the Mojave Desert (the latter of which wasn't within Nevada's original boundaries).
If they had meant to be accurate with the state name, they would have named us Cuenca.
But I take it you are aware that the Territory of Nevada took its name from the mountain range. Hence, if the Sierra's snowiness allows for its pronunciation to be more Spanishy, then likewise the territory named after it, and likewise the state named after
it.
Probably worth pointing out that much of the lands which now comprise Clark County weren't part of the state of Nevada when it was formed. When formed the state (much like Nevada Territory) really was centric around the Comstock Lode corridor and Lake Tahoe to until Las Vegas Valley began to emerge in fairly modern times. Getting Colorado River access certainly changes things present-tense.
Quote from: dlsterner on April 08, 2025, 05:40:22 PMFor me, one such place is Oneonta NY. Never was sure of the correct pronunciation.
I've head both Ohn-ee-on-tuh and On-ee-on-tuh.
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2025, 07:27:07 AMI've head both Ohn-ee-on-tuh and On-ee-on-tuh.
In that case, then, I'm going with wun-on-TAH!
We also have Vallejo, CA, the only town whose name is half-Spanish, as it's pronounced with the J in that language but the double-L in English. This is sure to spark a war on whether the town should be pronounced "va-lay-ho" (the partially bastardized version) or "va-yay-ho" (the "right" way to say it according to the Spanish-speakers).
Quote from: Henry on April 10, 2025, 10:12:01 PMWe also have Vallejo, CA, the only town whose name is half-Spanish, as it's pronounced with the J in that language but the double-L in English. This is sure to spark a war on whether the town should be pronounced "va-lay-ho" (the partially bastardized version) or "va-yay-ho" (the "right" way to say it according to the Spanish-speakers).
If it's at the beginning of a sentence, the V makes a B sound, too...
Quote from: kphoger on April 10, 2025, 10:44:23 PMQuote from: Henry on April 10, 2025, 10:12:01 PMWe also have Vallejo, CA, the only town whose name is half-Spanish, as it's pronounced with the J in that language but the double-L in English. This is sure to spark a war on whether the town should be pronounced "va-lay-ho" (the partially bastardized version) or "va-yay-ho" (the "right" way to say it according to the Spanish-speakers).
If it's at the beginning of a sentence, the V makes a B sound, too...
So, clearly the way to go is full English with "valley-joe." :-D
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 10, 2025, 11:05:24 PMSo, clearly the way to go is full English with "valley-joe."
And with barely restrained excitement in your tone, accenting the final syllable, evocative of the huntsman's cry of
Tally-ho!