Hey, what happened? For a while, we either got 403-Forbidden, 503, or 404-Page not found errors. I actually set up a monitor on my local instance of Uptime Kuma to see when the forum came back up.
Quote from: ZLoth on May 16, 2025, 10:57:08 AMHey, what happened? For a while, we either got 403-Forbidden, 503, or 404-Page not found errors. I actually set up a monitor on my local instance of Uptime Kuma to see when the forum came back up.
The forum server got absolutely clobbered by bots.
Why would anyone DDOS this forum? Idiots.
The same thing happened to me. I had feared I had been either banned from posting, or AAroads was blocking me for some reason. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who experienced this and can post again.
Quote from: swake on May 16, 2025, 11:16:57 AMWhy would anyone DDOS this forum? Idiots.
Companies downloading the entire forum to feed it into their AI. Except instead of going through the pages one by one they have 136,000 computers connect all at once to download everything.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 16, 2025, 11:49:50 AMThe same thing happened to me. I had feared I had been either banned from posting, or AAroads was blocking me for some reason. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who experienced this and can post again.
Alex had said earlier this week he thought he would be forced to take the forum down pending a solution. I wondered whether it would come back up. Glad to see it's back.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 16, 2025, 11:57:42 AMCompanies downloading the entire forum to feed it into their AI. Except instead of going through the pages one by one they have 136,000 computers connect all at once to download everything.
136,000 computers connecting at once? Doubtful. But, 136,000 virtual instances connecting at once to download everything in a server farm? That's more realistic.
Quote from: ZLoth on May 16, 2025, 12:11:48 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 16, 2025, 11:57:42 AMCompanies downloading the entire forum to feed it into their AI. Except instead of going through the pages one by one they have 136,000 computers connect all at once to download everything.
136,000 computers connecting at once? Doubtful. But, 136,000 virtual instances connecting at once to download everything in a server farm? That's more realistic.
I dunno, that's what the forum software said before it went down.
If they're all connecting from different IP addresses and displaying different user agents, then it really doesn't make all that much difference on our end whether they're running on different hardware or not. (And with IT stuff, I find it usually makes more sense to speak imprecisely when that conveys the gist of what's going when you have no idea to what degree the person you're talking to cares about the technical detail.)
Modern algorithms (misbranded AI) are a cancer.
Also, I'm getting a bunch of 502 errors if I refresh pages too quickly. I'm taking it that this some form of mitigation against the bots?
I'm getting those same 502 errors, about 20% of the time that I click on a topic.
When the forum first came back up, the "users online" and "most online today" seemed to hover at around 300, which seemed reasonable, but I now see in the last hour that the "most online today" spiked again to 28K - so I'm concerned the bots might be trying to come back?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2025, 12:16:38 PMModern algorithms (misbranded AI) are a cancer.
Also, I'm getting a bunch of 502 errors if I refresh pages too quickly. I'm taking it that this some form of mitigation against the bots?
Thank you so much.
People call these chatbots AI. THEY ARE NOT AI. It's a sham.
Quote from: swake on May 16, 2025, 02:52:30 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2025, 12:16:38 PMModern algorithms (misbranded AI) are a cancer.
Also, I'm getting a bunch of 502 errors if I refresh pages too quickly. I'm taking it that this some form of mitigation against the bots?
Thank you so much.
People call these chatbots AI. THEY ARE NOT AI. It's a sham.
AI scrapers are the property of AI companies. Don't whitewash what they are.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on May 16, 2025, 03:44:10 PMQuote from: swake on May 16, 2025, 02:52:30 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2025, 12:16:38 PMModern algorithms (misbranded AI) are a cancer.
Also, I'm getting a bunch of 502 errors if I refresh pages too quickly. I'm taking it that this some form of mitigation against the bots?
Thank you so much.
People call these chatbots AI. THEY ARE NOT AI. It's a sham.
AI scrapers are the property of AI companies. Don't whitewash what they are.
Isn't this the Sonic the Hedgehog Bad Future that K12 was trying to convince us would be great?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2025, 03:48:42 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on May 16, 2025, 03:44:10 PMQuote from: swake on May 16, 2025, 02:52:30 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2025, 12:16:38 PMModern algorithms (misbranded AI) are a cancer.
Also, I'm getting a bunch of 502 errors if I refresh pages too quickly. I'm taking it that this some form of mitigation against the bots?
Thank you so much.
People call these chatbots AI. THEY ARE NOT AI. It's a sham.
AI scrapers are the property of AI companies. Don't whitewash what they are.
Isn't this the Sonic the Hedgehog Bad Future that K12 was trying to convince us would be great?
If that's the guy who talked about a Minority Report-style future where everything is automated, but there is no manual override or concept of "things need to be maintained," then maybe.
My take is AI is a tool like anything else. It's neither good nor bad. It's what you do with it.
Quote from: Quillz on May 16, 2025, 04:32:42 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2025, 03:48:42 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on May 16, 2025, 03:44:10 PMQuote from: swake on May 16, 2025, 02:52:30 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2025, 12:16:38 PMModern algorithms (misbranded AI) are a cancer.
Also, I'm getting a bunch of 502 errors if I refresh pages too quickly. I'm taking it that this some form of mitigation against the bots?
Thank you so much.
People call these chatbots AI. THEY ARE NOT AI. It's a sham.
AI scrapers are the property of AI companies. Don't whitewash what they are.
Isn't this the Sonic the Hedgehog Bad Future that K12 was trying to convince us would be great?
If that's the guy who talked about a Minority Report-style future where everything is automated, but there is no manual override or concept of "things need to be maintained," then maybe.
My take is AI is a tool like anything else. It's neither good nor bad. It's what you do with it.
All these AI-branded algorithm tools have been resulting in negative outcomes along all frontiers of the road enthusiast hobby.
Off forum today I had to delete an automatically generated AI from hijacking a California Road group I manage on Facebook. This is one of several groups where I've had to make similar intervention. That doesn't even get into the malignant mass of AI Road pages that keep stealing from hobby pages.
But yes, K12 is very big on the supposed benefits of modern algorithms. He and others seem to misunderstand that none of what is out there is actual artificial intelligence.
Quote from: Quillz on May 16, 2025, 04:32:42 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2025, 03:48:42 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on May 16, 2025, 03:44:10 PMQuote from: swake on May 16, 2025, 02:52:30 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2025, 12:16:38 PMModern algorithms (misbranded AI) are a cancer.
Also, I'm getting a bunch of 502 errors if I refresh pages too quickly. I'm taking it that this some form of mitigation against the bots?
Thank you so much.
People call these chatbots AI. THEY ARE NOT AI. It's a sham.
AI scrapers are the property of AI companies. Don't whitewash what they are.
Isn't this the Sonic the Hedgehog Bad Future that K12 was trying to convince us would be great?
If that's the guy who talked about a Minority Report-style future where everything is automated, but there is no manual override or concept of "things need to be maintained," then maybe.
My take is AI is a tool like anything else. It's neither good nor bad. It's what you do with it.
It's a tool, but I just don't need that left-handed screwdriver and nine-point socket all that often.
K12 reminds me of Dyson from Terminator 2. Where he was making his design with nothing but good intentions in mind ("a pilot that never gets tired or makes mistakes"), and it didn't even seem to cross his mind that his design could be exploited and/or used for nefarious purposes.
I wasn't surprised the forum was taken offline (there were warnings about it). I was a bit surprised the forum was down for that many days. Hopefully the "AI" scraper bots won't return any time soon.
The first time I tried to access the forum during the outage, I actually saw a note from Alex saying he was going to be forced to take it offline until he could figure out something. After that, I started getting 403 errors.
I saw the same note hbelkins mentions.
Honestly, with all the messaging to the effect of the forum being on borrowed time, I'm pleasantly surprised that it returned at all. I was starting to wonder how I'd keep up with road-related developments around the country without it.
Quote from: DTComposer on May 16, 2025, 01:21:03 PMI'm getting those same 502 errors, about 20% of the time that I click on a topic.
And what's worse, once you get it on a topic, I've found that you'll get it again and again when trying to click the same link (reload only works 1/10 of the time). It takes me 3-5 tries to load topics that get the error, and when they finally do load, the load to the start of the page, not whatever post they were supposed to start on. Combine it with the lack of "new" banners on posts in threads, and browsing the forum isn't fun right now.
So many 'Loading' hangups now. Almost every time I go to quote a post, it fails to populate the quoted text and just throws a 'Loading' banner at the top of the screen instead. Refreshing the page and trying again works sometimes, but other times it takes several attempts and few mild profanities.
Eh, could be worse. Perhaps the struggle to post will increase the quality of posts on the forum. Only the strong and persistent can participate!
I'm glad it's back up. I can work around 502's and the Loading... on quotation issue.
("Back in my day, all we had was this: > ... or this: ^^^^^^^")
Reading this thread explains the 402 gateway error I got when opening this thread in particular. The irony is palpable however.
Quote from: vdeane on May 16, 2025, 10:07:32 PMHonestly, with all the messaging to the effect of the forum being on borrowed time, I'm pleasantly surprised that it returned at all. I was starting to wonder how I'd keep up with road-related developments around the country without it.
I got a Discord server.
Alerts don't appear to be working presently. It's showing I have one, but I cannot read it.
(EDIT) When I open up alerts as a separate page, I can access them.
Quote from: DTComposer on May 16, 2025, 01:21:03 PMI'm getting those same 502 errors, about 20% of the time that I click on a topic.
When the forum first came back up, the "users online" and "most online today" seemed to hover at around 300, which seemed reasonable, but I now see in the last hour that the "most online today" spiked again to 28K - so I'm concerned the bots might be trying to come back?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2025, 12:16:38 PMModern algorithms (misbranded AI) are a cancer.
Also, I'm getting a bunch of 502 errors if I refresh pages too quickly. I'm taking it that this some form of mitigation against the bots?
The 502's are a result of me trying to correct some errors with the forum. I had to cut short my work on this yesterday as I had plans and didn't want to make everyone wait too much more. Hopefully I will clean up the 502 error problem this morning.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 16, 2025, 05:15:05 PMI wasn't surprised the forum was taken offline (there were warnings about it). I was a bit surprised the forum was down for that many days. Hopefully the "AI" scraper bots won't return any time soon.
I was prepared to leave it offline longer...
I needed time to approach the bot problem from another angle, and eventually surmised leveraging Fail2Ban through Plesk to actively track and block problematic IP's. However, I had major problems with restoring the forum due to the persistent 403's generated by nginx and with software depreciation. They are working on the next SMF finally, but until that is released, I am on my own for correcting code problems such as with the open_basedir settings.
FWIW I've also been having to learn on the fly, as nginx/Apache2 were pretty much voids for me in my knowledge wheelhouse. Since I've been running commands through shell extensively on this, I at least have a better grasp on using it and its capabilities.
Quote from: Alex on May 17, 2025, 07:59:04 AMQuote from: Bobby5280 on May 16, 2025, 05:15:05 PMI wasn't surprised the forum was taken offline (there were warnings about it). I was a bit surprised the forum was down for that many days. Hopefully the "AI" scraper bots won't return any time soon.
I was prepared to leave it offline longer...
I needed time to approach the bot problem from another angle, and eventually surmised leveraging Fail2Ban through Plesk to actively track and block problematic IP's. However, I had major problems with restoring the forum due to the persistent 403's generated by nginx and with software depreciation. They are working on the next SMF finally, but until that is released, I am on my own for correcting code problems such as with the open_basedir settings.
FWIW I've also been having to learn on the fly, as nginx/Apache2 were pretty much voids for me in my knowledge wheelhouse. Since I've been running commands through shell extensively on this, I at least have a better grasp on using it and its capabilities.
Glad to hear that you've found what seems to a solution for the time being, and that you're getting more confident with the tools you're working with.
If we run into further bot problems, Anubis seems to be working pretty well on the wiki, so that would be the obvious next thing to try on the main site.
I keep getting a 502 error when I load certain pages. Still some bugs on my end.
Quote from: MATraveler128 on May 17, 2025, 09:55:02 AMI keep getting a 502 error when I load certain pages. Still some bugs on my end.
I'm not sure it has anything to do with the page. I can't confirm, but it seems to be a constant 40% for me, reloading randomizes the "roll" again. If anything, and I can't confirm, loading a particular page for the first time that's current has a higher chance than reloading any page or viewing a page in a thread where the last post is more than a few days old.
If you get an error after posting, the post
does go through. It happened with this one. It was a different error message than the standard 502, though.
The 502 errors are due to this error:
2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner
Really getting frustrated trying to solve this. :banghead:
Quote from: Alex on May 17, 2025, 10:51:10 AMThe 502 errors are due to this error:
2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner
Really getting frustrated trying to solve this. :banghead:
You got this. We are all counting on you. Thank you for your efforts.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 16, 2025, 05:15:05 PMI wasn't surprised the forum was taken offline (there were warnings about it). I was a bit surprised the forum was down for that many days. Hopefully the "AI" scraper bots won't return any time soon.
I was pleasantly surprised the forum came back up what I think was quickly. I imagined it would be down a week or more.
I join the chorus of those thanking Alex for his time and effort in resolving the issue.
I've gotten a few random 502 errors. If I refresh it usually clears it up. But sometimes it points me to the top of the page rather than the first unread post.
I had seen the reports of the problems, and then when I got the "forbidden" error I thought the forum had been discontinued. I thank Alex and any others who helped for getting us back online.
EDIT: And alerts are working again for me.
Quote from: GaryV on May 17, 2025, 12:56:17 PMI've gotten a few random 502 errors. If I refresh it usually clears it up. But sometimes it points me to the top of the page rather than the first unread post.
I had seen the reports of the problems, and then when I got the "forbidden" error I thought the forum had been discontinued. I thank Alex and any others who helped for getting us back online.
EDIT: And alerts are working again for me.
I set the forum to 403/forbidden as the bots were still hammering the server with GET requests even after I renamed the forum subdirectory so that the URL would not work. The 403 method was a surefire way to block them.
I think I have the 502 error resolved... Working on one last error now that mostly effects the script processing in the background.
Quote from: Alex on May 17, 2025, 02:01:33 PMI think I have the 502 error resolved... Working on one last error now that mostly effects the script processing in the background.
Confirmed. I haven't gotten any in a few hours.
No 502 errors today for me (but only one Connection Error message) today so far, compared to the last two days.
Minor things, but noticed too that the "Like" button, as well as some information (like personal messages, date joined, last active, etc) about a user on posts are also unavailable for the timebeing, assuming that is linked to current efforts to combat the bot issues on the server.
Thanks to Alex and everyone else working to resolve such issues.
Quote from: fwydriver405 on May 17, 2025, 02:49:43 PMNo 502 errors today for me (but only one Connection Error message) today so far, compared to the last two days.
Minor things, but noticed too that the "Like" button, as well as some information (like personal messages, date joined, last active, etc) about a user on posts are also unavailable for the timebeing, assuming that is linked to current efforts to combat the bot issues on the server.
Thanks to Alex and everyone else working to resolve such issues.
If you encountered a 500 error around 2:30 EDT, that was because of a syntax error I made in a file related to the database that took down the server. :-o
Otherwise I did deactivate the Like button, as it was causing scripting problems. Some of the other aspects may be because I did not have the original files when I did reinstallations. James or Scott probably has a better grasp of what SMF packages were installed or settings were made such as for date joined and last active.
With that said, I have addressed each of the SMF errors reported. There are still times that the Forum hesitates to where a query exceeds 5 seconds. The jam has something to do with the Display.php script from SMF. Since I've been working on this almost nonstop since 7:30 this morning, I am going to say that is an acceptable issue considering that it seems that functionality is vastly restored. That plus that Fail2Ban and a modification to the nginx directives to block all bots seems to be addressing the thousands of bot GET requests from before.
If you got a 502 error just now, that is because I restarted the server. The memory usage was again topped out. Another thing for me to monitor...
I miss the like button :-(
Quote from: Alex on May 17, 2025, 03:08:00 PMIf you got a 502 error just now, that is because I restarted the server. The memory usage was again topped out. Another thing for me to monitor...
I saw it, but I thought it was because I was testing if forum search was back (it's not) and it was blocking me specifically for high usage.
Idea: What about a server restart every X hours on the hour (X would be chosen based on how long a restart takes) so the outages are expected rather than unexpected?
I appreciate the hard work trying to keep the forum up. It's been working just fine for me today.
Quote from: fwydriver405 on May 17, 2025, 02:49:43 PMas well as some information (like personal messages, date joined, last active, etc) about a user on posts are also unavailable for the timebeing
I thought the left columns with user information looked unusually short... I guess that's why.
Quote from: hotdogPi on May 17, 2025, 03:15:19 PMIdea: What about a server restart every X hours on the hour (X would be chosen based on how long a restart takes) so the outages are expected rather than unexpected?
Or a daily downtime scheduled? (I.e. forum unavailable between 0800-1000 GMT M-F).
Alternatively, would universal captcha to access the site (often by Cloudflare or similar companies) be possible like on some other forums I've seen? Or does SMF not support that?
Working fine for me so far; no "NEW" icons is tolerable.
Miss the "like" feature, though, but no huge loss.
Thank you, Alex, and everyone behind this forum! I greatly appreciate everything you have done to help solve the problems.
Country flags are gone too, though I think a lot of us stopped using them by this point. Also, changing your profile details apparently nukes your avatar, with no way to get it back unless you have external hosting.
EDIT: Managed to find it in the gallery listing. Also, it's hilarious that there's still a spot for Skype usernames with Skype no longer being a thing.
Just a note to say THANK YOU to Alex for all his hard work on the forum. The Pacific Southwest forum is one I depend upon as a primary source of information for my pages, as well as a primary place to promote when I do California Highway Headline posts, posts of updates to my pages, and posts about the California Highways podcast. It has always served as a relatively high quality source of information.
I know the incredible amount of work that goes into maintain all of this, and I just want to let
@Alex know that I appreciate it.
The one suggestion I might make is to create a read-only, non-forum page off AARoads (e.g. .../forumstatus.html) that just provides a status update on the forum for downtimes like this. The AARoads FB page, which would be a logical place for that information, isn't a good source.
Thank you again.
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on May 17, 2025, 06:35:27 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on May 17, 2025, 03:08:37 PMI miss the like button :-(
Like
See, this is why it's handy. If someone posts something thoughtful or interesting that I have no further comment on, I like using it since we can no longer just post an emoticon in response to someone's post.
Quote from: cahwyguy on May 17, 2025, 10:47:15 PMJust a note to say THANK YOU to Alex for all his hard work on the forum. The Pacific Southwest forum is one I depend upon as a primary source of information for my pages, as well as a primary place to promote when I do California Highway Headline posts, posts of updates to my pages, and posts about the California Highways podcast. It has always served as a relatively high quality source of information.
I know the incredible amount of work that goes into maintain all of this, and I just want to let @Alex know that I appreciate it.
The one suggestion I might make is to create a read-only, non-forum page off AARoads (e.g. .../forumstatus.html) that just provides a status update on the forum for downtimes like this. The AARoads FB page, which would be a logical place for that information, isn't a good source.
Thank you again.
Much appreciated Dan. I like your idea and will add that as an addition to my nearly complete site reprogramming.
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 17, 2025, 11:40:51 PMQuote from: ElishaGOtis on May 17, 2025, 06:35:27 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on May 17, 2025, 03:08:37 PMI miss the like button :-(
Like
See, this is why it's handy. If someone posts something thoughtful or interesting that I have no further comment on, I like using it since we can no longer just post an emoticon in response to someone's post.
I don't disagree with you on this. It is that during the course of my debugging and code adjustments, the Likes script was part of a recursion error that generated incessantly:
2022 | 1747489305 | 6594 | D
▒g | ?topic=18020.1750 | 2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner | 9bf262bec0956a41b08875ca9536d734 | general | Unknown | 0 | [{"function":"smf_error_handler"}] |
| 2021 | 1747488610 | 0 | (M▒▒ | ?topic=10906.msg261197 | 2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner | 959f589879e9afad53248ff3c71675f9 | general | Unknown | 0 | [{"function":"smf_error_handler"}] |
| 2020 | 1747487382 | 0 | 4▒▒▒ | ?topic=22572.msg2317834 | 2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner | f3e7f1bfb28018d2e3335073d4650b24 | general | Unknown | 0 | [{"function":"smf_error_handler"}] |
| 2019 | 1747487209 | 0 | ▒˾▒ | ?topic=12138.0 | 2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner | 9a69812234fb96c3683991378bf0ce6d | general | Unknown | 0 | [{"function":"smf_error_handler"}] |
| 2018 | 1747487208 | 0 | ▒˾▒ | ?topic=12138.0 | 2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner | 7c13142ee7c9d82c8af59de1aef4a8c5 | general | Unknown | 0 | [{"function":"smf_error_handler"}] |
| 2017 | 1747487208 | 0 | ▒˾▒ | ?topic=12138.0 | 2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner | a26d2231f1f3f6808fb37bd747c8c851 | general | Unknown | 0 | [{"function":"smf_error_handler"}] |
| 2016 | 1747487198 | 0 | 4▒▒▒ | ?topic=1224.msg2979417 | 2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner | b85130c98773c858c7f1a81cd84a7fce | general | Unknown | 0 | [{"function":"smf_error_handler"}] |
| 2015 | 1747487102 | 0 | B▒D | ?topic=11590.0;prev_next=prev | 2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner | e1bc74829e96601cb5c14bc013d45ed7 | general | Unknown | 0 | [{"function":"smf_error_handler"}] |
| 2014 | 1747486515 | 0 | 4▒▒▒ | ?topic=22799.msg2541607 | 2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner | 793979d9cc5cb5d17f792a2caa87b584 | general | Unknown | 0 | [{"function":"smf_error_handler"}] |
| 2013 | 1747486371 | 0 | 3▒▒ | ?topic=1492.msg39701 | 2: Unknown: Cannot call session save handler in a recursive manner | fa88003ecde62d7c793a8481b5f76c26 | general | Unknown | 0 | [{"function":"smf_error_handler"}] |QuoteError Log (09:55:02 and later)
Stack traces show two errors related to checkSession() in Security.php, called from Likes.php:147:
[0x00007d2bd8013340] fatal_lang_error() /var/www/vhosts/aaroads.com/httpdocs/forum/Sources/Errors.php:237
[0x00007d2bd80131c0] checkSession() /var/www/vhosts/aaroads.com/httpdocs/forum/Sources/Security.php:710
[0x00007d2bd8013130] call() /var/www/vhosts/aaroads.com/httpdocs/forum/Sources/Likes.php:147QuoteThe stack trace points to Likes.php:147, where checkSession() is called during a "Like" action. SMF's checkSession() function (in Security.php) ensures a valid session before processing user actions. If an AJAX request (e.g., liking a post) triggers a session save while another session operation is active, PHP throws the recursion error.
This can happen if:
Multiple AJAX requests fire simultaneously (e.g., a user rapidly clicks "Like").
SMF's session handler is misconfigured or interfered with by another process.
Immediate Fix:
Modify Likes.php to avoid recursive session calls:
I attempted some code modifcation to address this, but the problem continued. I eventually decided to just deactivate Likes so I could move forward with getting the Forum to a stable state.
QuoteSession Recursion Error Resolution
Deactivating "Likes" (via Admin > Posts and Topics > Likes) was a smart move. The stack traces in the slow log (e.g., Likes.php:147 triggering checkSession()) confirm the error was tied to that feature. Since no new errors appear in the logs after 09:47:46, the issue is likely resolved.
I believe James was who activated the Likes aspect of SMF, so maybe he can restore it when he has some time.
Quote from: cahwyguy on May 17, 2025, 10:47:15 PMThe one suggestion I might make is to create a read-only, non-forum page off AARoads (e.g. .../forumstatus.html) that just provides a status update on the forum for downtimes like this. The AARoads FB page, which would be a logical place for that information, isn't a good source.
I have a script ready, and it will debut once I finish the AARoads backend reprogramming. It will query the SMF database and output users online and the most recent five posts in addition to a status message regarding if any SMF errors are currently logged. I'll adjust the text above it when forum downtime will occur of if I have to take it offline to address an ongoing problem with bots and the like.
I set up a cron job so that this will not be an actual live look at the forum, but instead be a snapshot generated every 5 minutes. This way the script is not actively querying the database anytime someone is accessing the forum status webpage. Programmingwise, this is encapsulated as a method to make it more efficient as well.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/forum-status.jpg)
Thanks for the efforts to get the site back up.
Now I need to dedicate effort to restoring one of my web hosts.
Early this morning I received a message from the host of my DallasFreeways.com domain that "User dallasfr has used up 460% of their bandwidth and 88.4% of their allocated disk space" and "User dallasfr has been suspended for bandwidth overusage". This situation has never occurred in the 10 years I've used this host (webhostingpad). The long term trend for bandwidth on my sites is flat or down, so a bandwidth surge is unexpected.
So all content hosted on that site is unavailable. My host is totally suspended - I cannot even log in with FTP.
I use a directory on DallasFreeways.com for images which I posted on AA Roads. It appears that the bot is following links in posts on AA Roads and also instigating a DDoS attack on those links.
I have a few items on AA roads which are linked to files hosted on Azure. On May 5 and 6 file requests were 5 to 10 times normal rates. There are also spikes about 5x normal on May 12 and May 14. I can't say for a fact that these spikes were caused by the AA Roads DDoS bot, since I have only a few files linked on AA Roads and the overwhelming majority of requests to Azure are direct from dfwfreeways.com and houstonfreeways.com.
I've been in the process of migrating to Azure blob hosting, so I think this will force me to complete that process.
UPDATE: my host says all the requests are coming from a single ip, 166.194.200.53, which is an ATT/Cingular ip in Allen, Texas. Is that consistent with the attack source on AARoads, or is my situation separate and unrelated?
QuoteHello,
I have reviewed your request and found that your account has consumed approximately 450 GB of bandwidth so far. Upon analyzing the account statistics, I discovered that Apache was responsible for the bandwidth consumption.
I further examined the domain access logs and identified that the IP caused the issue.
166.194.200.53
Are you aware of this activity?
Please let us know if there's anything else we can assist you with.
I was unable to get the forum on my mobile browser for days. On the computer, it came up most of the time. It would be available on the computer and not available on mobile at the same time. Even recently, when the number of guests has been reasonable and the site is working, I couldn't get it on mobile. It was redirecting from aaroads.com/forum to forum.aaroads.com. The problem was on my side. I cleared the browser cache (I'm old enough to remember when that sometimes fixed things, although I haven't done it in a long time) and it works now. Also, the redirect is gone.
Interesting that the like button and the 502 bad gateway errors seem to have been related, as the absence of both makes the lack of "new" indicators on posts a less pressing issue. Without the random chance of starting at the top of a page due to an error or scrolling up to find and look at post likes, I can just start browsing from the new post without worrying about needing to keep track of where it is.
Quote from: wxfree on May 18, 2025, 02:07:12 PMI was unable to get the forum on my mobile browser for days. On the computer, it came up most of the time. It would be available on the computer and not available on mobile at the same time. Even recently, when the number of guests has been reasonable and the site is working, I couldn't get it on mobile. It was redirecting from aaroads.com/forum to forum.aaroads.com. The problem was on my side. I cleared the browser cache (I'm old enough to remember when that sometimes fixed things, although I haven't done it in a long time) and it works now. Also, the redirect is gone.
What trick did you use to get onto the forum, since it was down serverside?
Quote from: hotdogPi on May 18, 2025, 02:16:20 PMQuote from: wxfree on May 18, 2025, 02:07:12 PMI was unable to get the forum on my mobile browser for days. On the computer, it came up most of the time. It would be available on the computer and not available on mobile at the same time. Even recently, when the number of guests has been reasonable and the site is working, I couldn't get it on mobile. It was redirecting from aaroads.com/forum to forum.aaroads.com. The problem was on my side. I cleared the browser cache (I'm old enough to remember when that sometimes fixed things, although I haven't done it in a long time) and it works now. Also, the redirect is gone.
What trick did you use to get onto the forum, since it was down serverside?
I think what happened was that the forum.aaroads.com redirect got cached and the mobile browser kept going to it. It seems the redirect wasn't active very long, so it lead to a dead end. Once I cleared the cache today, it started working normally. My computer browser never got that redirect and it either loaded the forum or didn't, based on the server conditions.
Alex: Do you ever feel like you're playing Whack-A-Mole with a Band-Aid?
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 17, 2025, 03:08:37 PMI miss the like button
Yes, I had noticed that you were 'liking' approx. 95% of all forum posts... [/sarc]
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 17, 2025, 11:40:51 PMIf someone posts something thoughtful or interesting that I have no further comment on, I like using it ...
Oh, see, now, that makes total sense. Instead of either posting or just leaving the author wondering if anyone cared what he wrote, you could do something in between. I see the light now.
I guess spreading a bit of positivity wasn't quite as well-received as I thought it would be. X-(
I was one who wasn't exactly enthusiastic about the idea of the like button, until it was implemented. Indeed, it served a useful purpose as a form of light engagement that doesn't take space up on the page but still indicated appreciation for the post. It was always nice getting a bunch of likes whenever I made a stupid joke.
I never really knew what to think when I purpletexted at people and got likes on that, though.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 05:32:53 PMwhat to think when I purpletexted at people and got likes on that
People liked how you were maintaining control of the forum.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 05:32:53 PMI was one who wasn't exactly enthusiastic about the idea of the like button, until it was implemented. Indeed, it served a useful purpose as a form of light engagement that doesn't take space up on the page but still indicated appreciation for the post. It was always nice getting a bunch of likes whenever I made a stupid joke.
I never really knew what to think when I purpletexted at people and got likes on that, though.
People wish they had the power to shut others up. :)
Quote from: Rothman on May 17, 2025, 07:10:20 PMWorking fine for me so far; no "NEW" icons is tolerable.
This has been fixed.
Quote from: GaryV on May 18, 2025, 05:45:49 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 05:32:53 PMwhat to think when I purpletexted at people and got likes on that
People liked how you were maintaining control of the forum.
That was the conclusion I eventually came to, but it was a little amusing comparing it to a gardener pruning a shrub or a policeman writing a traffic ticket and getting a round of applause from passersby for doing so.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 07:20:49 PMa policeman writing a traffic ticket and getting a round of applause from passersby for doing so.
Sometimes people are known in the neighborhood for going way too fast.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 07:20:49 PMQuote from: GaryV on May 18, 2025, 05:45:49 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 05:32:53 PMwhat to think when I purpletexted at people and got likes on that
People liked how you were maintaining control of the forum.
That was the conclusion I eventually came to, but it was a little amusing comparing it to a gardener pruning a shrub or a policeman writing a traffic ticket and getting a round of applause from passersby for doing so.
I saw it more like the Supreme Court making a ruling I agreed with.
Quote from: hotdogPi on May 18, 2025, 07:41:59 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 07:20:49 PMQuote from: GaryV on May 18, 2025, 05:45:49 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 05:32:53 PMwhat to think when I purpletexted at people and got likes on that
People liked how you were maintaining control of the forum.
That was the conclusion I eventually came to, but it was a little amusing comparing it to a gardener pruning a shrub or a policeman writing a traffic ticket and getting a round of applause from passersby for doing so.
I saw it more like the Supreme Court making a ruling I agreed with.
I'm not sure whether I should be offended by being compared to the Supreme Court or not.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 07:20:49 PMQuote from: GaryV on May 18, 2025, 05:45:49 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 05:32:53 PMwhat to think when I purpletexted at people and got likes on that
People liked how you were maintaining control of the forum.
That was the conclusion I eventually came to, but it was a little amusing comparing it to a gardener pruning a shrub or a policeman writing a traffic ticket and getting a round of applause from passersby for doing so.
The CA 125 NB to I-8 WB ramp in San Diego has a notorious ramp signal during the AM commute and traffic would back up onto the 125 regularly. Most of us sat in line but would watch people zoom by on the shoulder and zip in that way. This ramp is a parclo, so there's no way to see what's at the other end.
One morning someone pulled the usual shoulder crap but as I got around the turn, I saw him pulled up about 50 feet shy of a CHiP, who was sitting in the shoulder as well. The cop was already out of his cruiser and the driver had no way out (and we certainly weren't going to let him back in), and the cop just beckoned him forward as if to say, "C'mon, you got caught, let's get this over with."
I'd have applauded him. I think pretty much all of us sitting there would have.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 07:20:49 PMQuote from: GaryV on May 18, 2025, 05:45:49 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 05:32:53 PMwhat to think when I purpletexted at people and got likes on that
People liked how you were maintaining control of the forum.
That was the conclusion I eventually came to, but it was a little amusing comparing it to a gardener pruning a shrub or a policeman writing a traffic ticket and getting a round of applause from passersby for doing so.
Aside from somehow making purple text posts ineligible for likes, getting likes on them is much better than
not getting likes.
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 18, 2025, 05:27:43 PMI guess spreading a bit of positivity wasn't quite as well-received as I thought it would be. X-(
Oh, I appreciated the positivity. But, at first, considering I only checked to see who had liked
my own posts, it did seem like you had a bit of a crush on me...
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 05:32:53 PMI was one who wasn't exactly enthusiastic about the idea of the like button, until it was implemented.
Same. I thought it was a silly idea at first. And even afterward, I'd mostly ignore the likes. But, if a post of mine got six likes or whatever, then I did find it interesting to see who those six people were.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 05:32:53 PMI never really knew what to think when I purpletexted at people and got likes on that, though.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 07:20:49 PMit was a little amusing comparing it to a gardener pruning a shrub or a policeman writing a traffic ticket and getting a round of applause from passersby for doing so.
Just as others have said, sometimes we'd all like to applaud the cop who pulled over the dickhead driver.
Or how about this. You're not paid to do anything on this forum. You're a volunteer, basically. If someone volunteers their time to go and prune shrubs at a battered women's shelter or whatever every so often, then chances are the people involved at the shelter would show some appreciation for that.
Quote from: webny99 on May 19, 2025, 08:27:20 AMAside from somehow making purple text posts ineligible for likes, getting likes on them is much better than not getting likes.
Imagine if we had down-votes, and people could down-vote purple text.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 18, 2025, 07:51:54 PMwhether I should be offended by being compared to the Supreme Court or not
Better than the other 2 branches.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 16, 2025, 12:12:48 PMQuote from: ZLoth on May 16, 2025, 12:11:48 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 16, 2025, 11:57:42 AMCompanies downloading the entire forum to feed it into their AI. Except instead of going through the pages one by one they have 136,000 computers connect all at once to download everything.
136,000 computers connecting at once? Doubtful. But, 136,000 virtual instances connecting at once to download everything in a server farm? That's more realistic.
I dunno, that's what the forum software said before it went down.
If they're all connecting from different IP addresses and displaying different user agents, then it really doesn't make all that much difference on our end whether they're running on different hardware or not. (And with IT stuff, I find it usually makes more sense to speak imprecisely when that conveys the gist of what's going when you have no idea to what degree the person you're talking to cares about the technical detail.)
Like I said, I really doubt there are that many computers connecting. When you consider virtualization, and the fact that you can have multiple virtual instances from a single server requesting information, the impact is still the same... the forum server is flatlined.
Has the way the login works changed? When I signed in earlier, the "stay signed in for 1 hour" thing oddly still had me signed in after an hour.
Quote from: kphoger on May 16, 2025, 10:18:24 PMSo many 'Loading' hangups now. Almost every time I go to quote a post, it fails to populate the quoted text and just throws a 'Loading' banner at the top of the screen instead. Refreshing the page and trying again works sometimes, but other times it takes several attempts and few mild profanities.
This issue has gone away lately. I'm not seeing it anymore.
Quote from: vdeane on May 19, 2025, 08:27:00 PMHas the way the login works changed? When I signed in earlier, the "stay signed in for 1 hour" thing oddly still had me signed in after an hour.
All I've noticed is that either the default changed, or else the list itself changed. I only know this because I try to use the keyboard instead of the mouse as much as possible, and I used to select 'Forever' by simply hitting Tab Up-arrow Tab Enter or something like that (my fingers know, not my brain). I did that earlier, apparently that now means '1 hour', and then I wondered by I got booted out a little while later.
Just experienced a hang-up loading a thread.
Quote from: vdeane on May 19, 2025, 08:27:00 PMHas the way the login works changed? When I signed in earlier, the "stay signed in for 1 hour" thing oddly still had me signed in after an hour.
I tweaked that setting to 1 day now by default.
Quote from: MaxConcrete on May 18, 2025, 11:56:43 AMUPDATE: my host says all the requests are coming from a single ip, 166.194.200.53, which is an ATT/Cingular ip in Allen, Texas. Is that consistent with the attack source on AARoads, or is my situation separate and unrelated?
I downloaded log files from May 13 to May 16 and the ip 166.194.200.53 did not show up.
However as an example, three IP's from Brazil showed up 1,530 times on May 13.
Similar to you, long term traffic overall for AARoads has decreased or been flat, so this surge in bot traffic has been surprising. And the number of bots remains at ridiculously high levels: 5,800 guests and 13 users as of this post.
Quote from: Rothman on May 19, 2025, 11:37:44 PMJust experienced a hang-up loading a thread.
Checking the memory usage, the trend has been that the server tops out after 6 PM nightly. Which helps explain why the Forum may spool or hang-up.
I have the cron job restarting the server daily at 2 AM. May have to consider adding a second restart to offset the memory usage until this bot activity decreases (if it ever does).
Quote from: kphoger on May 18, 2025, 05:03:59 PMAlex: Do you ever feel like you're playing Whack-A-Mole with a Band-Aid?
Absolutely! When I think I have things covered, I turn around and the SMF error log is populated with something new.
All things considered, seems to be running pretty smoothly now, despite the surprising Russsian spam account showing up. :D
Quote from: Rothman on May 20, 2025, 07:57:27 AMAll things considered, seems to be running pretty smoothly now, despite the surprising Russsian spam account showing up. :D
As the guy who services our HVAC always writes on the post-service ticket, "System operates properly at this time."
It's good to be back!
I did get another instance of [Loading] yesterday, but only for a few minutes.
Screwy calendar? In the Unread Posts listing, the post about widening I-30 in Texarkana area showed last updated today 5:55 am (roughly). The actual post has that time, but May 2 as the date...
Just pointing it out. Very appreciative of the efforts to keep this forum alive!
The forum crashed again earlier. I only noticed it was back because I'm awake at degen hours.
Both the forum and the main page crashed yesterday, and came back online at 1:00 AM Central.
I'm keeping a uptime kuma monitor active at my end.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on May 23, 2025, 02:40:25 AMThe forum crashed again earlier. I only noticed it was back because I'm awake at degen hours.
Quote from: ZLoth on May 23, 2025, 05:07:00 AMBoth the forum and the main page crashed yesterday, and came back online at 1:00 AM Central.
I'm keeping a uptime kuma monitor active at my end.
I see where it went down. The memory did not tap out this time, so I looked at some of other analytics:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/server-usage.jpg)
Can anyone offer suggestions? Problems seem to arise daily around 5 to 6 PM EDT. I am leaning toward having the server restart also during evenings.
While doing data entry on the main site the last two afternoons, I encountered timeouts on scripts, and ultimately chose to restart the server. Fortunately this process does not take too long, and it resolves the timeout or 500 errors I get.
Looking at the latest stats, as of this moment there are 1,188 guests. So the Forum continues to draw in bots. The slow logs yesterday revealed numerous Forum interactions too, no doubt related to so many GET requests.
Quote from: Alex on May 23, 2025, 07:16:20 AMCan anyone offer suggestions? Problems seem to arise daily around 5 to 6 PM EDT. I am leaning toward having the server restart also during evenings.
An evening restart sounds like a good idea to me, at least until a decision can be made on the effectiveness of the wiki's blocking method.
At the moment, 8,624 guests and 23 users are on the forum.
I wonder if it would make any difference to require that users be logged in to view the substance of the forum. You might leave one publicly-viewable subforum under Meta visible to everyone ("About This Forum" or whatever; a description of the forum contents, explanation of how to register, and locked to all posts). As to all of the subforums, the SMF setting would be changed to the same as several current ones such as "Fictional" and "Travel" that are not visible unless the reader is a logged-in member.
It's already been tried. Making the forum only visible to people who are logged in doesn't decrease the number of bots.
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on May 17, 2025, 06:38:19 PMAlternatively, would universal captcha to access the site (often by Cloudflare or similar companies) be possible like on some other forums I've seen? Or does SMF not support that?
Bump?
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/ results in a 403 Forbidden error message for me. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php does work, but the forum is displaying without any stylesheet or forum-hosted images, and per a look at the developer tools in my browser, that's because those are also returning 403 Forbidden. I'm surprised I'm not seeing where others have brought this up, so is this specific to my IP address or range?
Quote from: Walnut2 on June 01, 2025, 03:26:06 PMhttps://www.aaroads.com/forum/ results in a 403 Forbidden error message for me. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php does work, but the forum is displaying without any stylesheet or forum-hosted images, and per a look at the developer tools in my browser, that's because those are also returning 403 Forbidden. I'm surprised I'm not seeing where others have brought this up, so is this specific to my IP address or range?
Your browser probably has a version of it cached where it couldn't load the stylesheet. If you're using Firefox, try hitting Ctrl+Shift+R to force a page reload. If you're using Chrome, take a good long look at the life choices that led you to that unfortunate decision and reconsider.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2025, 03:41:46 PMQuote from: Walnut2 on June 01, 2025, 03:26:06 PMhttps://www.aaroads.com/forum/ results in a 403 Forbidden error message for me. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php does work, but the forum is displaying without any stylesheet or forum-hosted images, and per a look at the developer tools in my browser, that's because those are also returning 403 Forbidden. I'm surprised I'm not seeing where others have brought this up, so is this specific to my IP address or range?
Your browser probably has a version of it cached where it couldn't load the stylesheet. If you're using Firefox, try hitting Ctrl+Shift+R to force a page reload. If you're using Chrome, take a good long look at the life choices that led you to that unfortunate decision and reconsider.
I've been using Firefox for a long time. Damn it's a memory hog but I haven't found anything I like better.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 01, 2025, 04:13:39 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2025, 03:41:46 PMQuote from: Walnut2 on June 01, 2025, 03:26:06 PMhttps://www.aaroads.com/forum/ results in a 403 Forbidden error message for me. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php does work, but the forum is displaying without any stylesheet or forum-hosted images, and per a look at the developer tools in my browser, that's because those are also returning 403 Forbidden. I'm surprised I'm not seeing where others have brought this up, so is this specific to my IP address or range?
Your browser probably has a version of it cached where it couldn't load the stylesheet. If you're using Firefox, try hitting Ctrl+Shift+R to force a page reload. If you're using Chrome, take a good long look at the life choices that led you to that unfortunate decision and reconsider.
I've been using Firefox for a long time. Damn it's a memory hog but I haven't found anything I like better.
I have a staunch belief that if I paid for a piece of computer hardware, then I have the right to make the hardware do anything I want, and decide how much data that hardware sends to who. The developers of Chrome disagree so they are not welcome to run their code on my hardware. I return the favor by not supporting their browser when I write my own code.
Firefox runs on phones now, btw.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2025, 04:19:02 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 01, 2025, 04:13:39 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2025, 03:41:46 PMQuote from: Walnut2 on June 01, 2025, 03:26:06 PMhttps://www.aaroads.com/forum/ results in a 403 Forbidden error message for me. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php does work, but the forum is displaying without any stylesheet or forum-hosted images, and per a look at the developer tools in my browser, that's because those are also returning 403 Forbidden. I'm surprised I'm not seeing where others have brought this up, so is this specific to my IP address or range?
Your browser probably has a version of it cached where it couldn't load the stylesheet. If you're using Firefox, try hitting Ctrl+Shift+R to force a page reload. If you're using Chrome, take a good long look at the life choices that led you to that unfortunate decision and reconsider.
I've been using Firefox for a long time. Damn it's a memory hog but I haven't found anything I like better.
I have a staunch belief that if I paid for a piece of computer hardware, then I have the right to make the hardware do anything I want, and decide how much data that hardware sends to who. The developers of Chrome disagree so they are not welcome to run their code on my hardware. I return the favor by not supporting their browser when I write my own code.
Firefox runs on phones now, btw.
Yes, I've been using Firefox on my phone for a while.
I'd already tried forced-reloading on two different computers (using Firefox or Firefox derivatives; Google Chrome is indeed evil).
I figured out the problem: the server now dislikes old versions of Windows. It occurred to me to try a user-agent override, and a user agent reporting "Windows NT 10.0" as the OS makes it happy. "Windows NT 6.3" or lower results in the 403 errors. (The two computers I tried are running Windows Vista and Windows 7.) I know it's probably Alex just trying whatever he can think of to mitigate the onslaught of bots, but discriminating against users running older OSes (or, relatedly, older or non-mainstream browsers supporting still-secure TLS algorithms and capable of rendering the site just fine) is not good practice, and I'm still seeing the number of "guests" reach five figures.
(Setting up a desktop dual-booting a current Linux distro and Windows 7 to replace this weary laptop as my daily driver is on my to-do list, but for the moment it's still capable of doing most of what I need thanks to browser forks that maintain older-Windows compatibility. And before someone comes along with the talking points about how "insecure" it is to run an OS that no longer receives updates: actually, I know what I'm doing, so that's not an issue.)
I'm not sure if that's something Alex did on purpose, or the developers of SMF or one of the anti-bot packages he's trying did. It certainly isn't a practice I'd support as an intentional policy decision.
When I was in the process of saving up enough money to put a new computer together, I had stopped doing software updates—because what was the point if I was about to decommission the computer?—and my bank withdrew support for the Firefox version I was using. In a fit of pique I changed my browser string to Firefox version one million, which, incredibly, let me through.
FYI, I'm noticing that this Quick Reply box has loads of broken graphics.
The emoji icons keep going through a cycle of being fine and being broken.
Not just those; I just had a page where the rank banners were broken.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 01, 2025, 10:00:31 PMThe emoji icons keep going through a cycle of being fine and being broken.
I kind of wish they could be hidden while I type a post, but maybe I should have asked that ten years ago.
For some odd reason, Alex has '403'd' the image directory for the forum. Thus, that's why they aren't showing up.
I've been getting a 403 Forbidden screen for the past couple days when I try to get into the Forum on my home computer, even after partly clearing the cache and forcing a page reload. I haven't had issues on my work computer, such as now. I'm running Firefox on Windows 7 at home; I guess the note a few posts up about the server now not liking older Windows versions affects me. It wasn't a problem until Sunday morning. I might try the user agent override as mentioned, but with my luck I would really foul up the machine.
Can't post photos for the XY Challenge. :banghead:
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2025, 03:41:46 PMIf you're using Chrome, take a good long look at the life choices that led you to that unfortunate decision and reconsider.
Quote from: Walnut2 on June 01, 2025, 06:12:48 PMChrome is indeed evil
I use Chrome at work for certain things. But that's because I keep a lot of sites open at once, and I want to be able to easily find the one I want on the taskbar. So for certain sites I use Edge, others Chrome, others Firefox, others Opera. I actually use Edge more than the others, not Firefox, but for no particular reason.
My biggest issue with Chrome is that I can only set the save-to destination folder for downloads, but I can't choose the option of opening instead of saving. (Yes, I know opening requires first saving, but only into a temp folder. Chrome doesn't appear to have that as an option at all.)
It's just recently that I started using Opera. The biggest thing I don't like is that there's no such thing as a homepage. I find myself hitting Alt+Home, and it just takes me to the dumb 'Speed Dial' page instead of Google (which I usually set as the homepage).
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 12:09:40 PMMy biggest issue with Chrome is that I can only set the save-to destination folder for downloads, but I can't choose the option of opening instead of saving. (Yes, I know opening requires first saving, but only into a temp folder. Chrome doesn't appear to have that as an option at all.)
Yes, that. It's especially annoying when sites configure themselves to require PDFs to be downloaded instead of viewed in the browser (if I had my way, browsers wouldn't honor that).
Quote from: vdeane on June 03, 2025, 08:52:44 PMQuote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 12:09:40 PMMy biggest issue with Chrome is that I can only set the save-to destination folder for downloads, but I can't choose the option of opening instead of saving. (Yes, I know opening requires first saving, but only into a temp folder. Chrome doesn't appear to have that as an option at all.)
Yes, that. It's especially annoying when sites configure themselves to require PDFs to be downloaded instead of viewed in the browser (if I had my way, browsers wouldn't honor that).
→ Settings
→ Privacy & security
→ Additional content settings
→ PDF documents
→ Open PDFs in Chrome
Does that not work for you?
Quote from: vdeane on June 03, 2025, 08:52:44 PMQuote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 12:09:40 PMMy biggest issue with Chrome is that I can only set the save-to destination folder for downloads, but I can't choose the option of opening instead of saving. (Yes, I know opening requires first saving, but only into a temp folder. Chrome doesn't appear to have that as an option at all.)
Yes, that. It's especially annoying when sites configure themselves to require PDFs to be downloaded instead of viewed in the browser (if I had my way, browsers wouldn't honor that).
I was having a problem on my work laptop (on which I use Edge because Firefox was causing problems) where .PDFs were not opening properly and were downloading as .HTML files, which rendered them useless. So I wound up configuring the browser to force the download so that I could save the .PDFs when I need to do so.
Quote from: vdeane on June 03, 2025, 08:52:44 PMQuote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 12:09:40 PMMy biggest issue with Chrome is that I can only set the save-to destination folder for downloads, but I can't choose the option of opening instead of saving. (Yes, I know opening requires first saving, but only into a temp folder. Chrome doesn't appear to have that as an option at all.)
Yes, that. It's especially annoying when sites configure themselves to require PDFs to be downloaded instead of viewed in the browser (if I had my way, browsers wouldn't honor that).
OTOH, I'd prefer for PDFs to be saved for me to open in an external app -- in my case, Preview for Mac -- versus opening in the browser. I prefer this because I print a lot of mailing labels for my wife that she forwards to my Gmail account, and I view my Gmail account in my browser. It's easier for me to save the PDFs, open them in Preview, and then print them as opposed to having to deal with them in the browser.
Quote from: kphoger on June 04, 2025, 09:55:33 AMQuote from: vdeane on June 03, 2025, 08:52:44 PMQuote from: kphoger on June 03, 2025, 12:09:40 PMMy biggest issue with Chrome is that I can only set the save-to destination folder for downloads, but I can't choose the option of opening instead of saving. (Yes, I know opening requires first saving, but only into a temp folder. Chrome doesn't appear to have that as an option at all.)
Yes, that. It's especially annoying when sites configure themselves to require PDFs to be downloaded instead of viewed in the browser (if I had my way, browsers wouldn't honor that).
→ Settings
→ Privacy & security
→ Additional content settings
→ PDF documents
→ Open PDFs in Chrome
Does that not work for you?
It works
most of the time, but there's something websites can do to override that and require an individual PDF to be downloaded. That's where it gets annoying.
Probably when they specify a MIME type like application/octet-stream or some such. Not much the browser can do about that other than content sniff.
I prefer downloading the PDF if it's over a certain threshold; usually something over 10-20 MB can crash a browser (your mileage may vary). But that's only helpful if you know how large the PDF you're encountering.
Quote from: formulanone on June 04, 2025, 10:14:33 PMI prefer downloading the PDF if it's over a certain threshold; usually something over 10-20 MB can crash a browser (your mileage may vary). But that's only helpful if you know how large the PDF you're encountering.
Whenever I post a hyperlink to a .pdf on the forum, I add a warning in parenthesis. If it seems especially long to me, then I'll also state how many pages it is. I figure nobody likes inadvertently downloading a 600-page .pdf to their computer. Or their phone.