The treasury department just announced today that they will stop making new pennies so no more new pennies will go into circulation after 2026. Just curious how everyone feels about this. I frankly don't care too much. If businesses are being told to round up to the nearest five cents, I don't see that as much of an issue if pennies cost four cents to make.
Full support. I really don't see why we use pennies anymore. I was in Paris where everything was rounded to the nearest 10 euro cents (they have a 0.20 coin instead of a 0.25), and I really liked it.
Of note: places that round to the nearest 5¢ for cash purchases, such as Canada, Australia, and Switzerland, round whichever way is closer, not always up. In New Zealand, which rounds to the nearest 10¢, 5 rounds down, not up.
I was always taught that with a .5 figure that needs rounding, you round to the even number. Both 3.5 and 4.5 would round to 4, for example.
I'm Ok with it. Pennies have long outlived their usefulness as currency, even before the emergence of e-commerce. Besides, there are so many in circulation they'll never completely go away.
It also doesn't make sense to keep them if it cost 4 cents to make them but they're only 1 cent, it seems like they should've been done away with awhile ago.
Let's get rid of nickels and quarters, too, and round to ten cents. We can have dimes, half-dollars, and dollar coins. That's my dream.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 22, 2025, 01:44:39 PMI was always taught that with a .5 figure that needs rounding, you round to the even number. Both 3.5 and 4.5 would round to 4, for example.
I've never heard that, but I like the logic in that it evens things out over the long-term.
Quote from: SectorZ on May 22, 2025, 01:59:10 PMQuote from: hbelkins on May 22, 2025, 01:44:39 PMI was always taught that with a .5 figure that needs rounding, you round to the even number. Both 3.5 and 4.5 would round to 4, for example.
I've never heard that, but I like the logic in that it evens things out over the long-term.
I only heard that in college, otherwise told to always round up in that case.
Also, will stores still end all prices with .99?
Quote from: Big John on May 22, 2025, 02:13:21 PMAlso, will stores still end all prices with .99?
My experience with Paris (which was the nearest was 0.10) is no. There were a few that ended in 5, and exactly one place had a .99; it was an internal gift shop next to the Mona Lisa in the Louvre. Most prices were to the nearest 0.1, though, and many only listed one decimal place.
I can't remember what they did in Québec City when I was there in 2019.
I believe that if places do switch, they'll switch to .95, not the whole dollar. I've seen some restaurants already do that, not that it really matters since you're not paying the exact amount listed because of tax and tip.
Quote from: Big John on May 22, 2025, 02:13:21 PMAlso, will stores still end all prices with .99?
If so, will stores round each individual item or round the total?
Quote from: Big John on May 22, 2025, 02:13:21 PMAlso, will stores still end all prices with .99?
Probably. After all, gas prices still end in nine-tenths of a cent.
When I was in Italy, most grocery prices were rounded to the nearest 10 lire, and the total was paid in the nearest 50 or 100 lire. (There was one store that would use 10- and 20-lira coins for change to cut back on the total amount given out.)
*pinches pennies*
I'm in full support. It's about time.
Quote from: Big John on May 22, 2025, 02:13:21 PMAlso, will stores still end all prices with .99?
They'll stop as soon as gas stations stop ending all their prices with .099, I imagine.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 22, 2025, 01:44:39 PMI was always taught that with a .5 figure that needs rounding, you round to the even number. Both 3.5 and 4.5 would round to 4, for example.
Interesting. I was always taught to round up when I was in grade school, but some instructors in college used the "even number rule".
When Canada phased out its penny in 2012, banks were at some point ordered to stop providing pennies to retailers and other customers (so they couldn't replenish the pennies in their drawers), and to instead sell to the government any pennies they had on hand or received from customers. Those measures did a pretty good job of quickly hoovering up the pennies still in circulation in Canada. But especially in rural areas of Canada, well into the 2010s I still saw some "leave a penny, take a penny" trays in stores, perhaps as a favor to old-fashioned customers slow to give up on the penny.
Canada's official guidance to retailers was to round the total sales price (after taxes) up or down to the nearest nickel for cash transactions, but no rounding for credit transactions.
I don't know if the U.S. Treasury will be content to let the penny supply in circulation slowly dry up, or will like Canada try to speed up the process of making pennies go away.
Quote from: SectorZ on May 22, 2025, 01:58:13 PMLet's get rid of nickels and quarters, too, and round to ten cents. We can have dimes, half-dollars, and dollar coins. That's my dream.
I'd get rid off all coins except nickels, quarters and dollars. You can make every combination from $0.05 up through $1.95 with only 8 coins.
Getting rid of $1 bills should be next.
Quote from: kphoger on May 22, 2025, 02:37:06 PMI'm in full support. It's about time.
Quote from: Big John on May 22, 2025, 02:13:21 PMAlso, will stores still end all prices with .99?
They'll stop as soon as gas stations stop ending all their prices with .099, I imagine.
The U.S. dollar is still legally divided into cents and mills even though no coin denominated in mills has circulated since the half cent was withdrawn (I believe they stopped minting those in 1857 or so). There's no real reason why those amounts can't still be used for electronic transactions.
Quote from: Big John on May 22, 2025, 02:13:21 PMAlso, will stores still end all prices with .99?
Why not? The sales tax will make it 1.05 or 1.06 or 1.072 or whatever the local rates are.
Quote from: GaryV on May 22, 2025, 04:27:33 PMQuote from: Big John on May 22, 2025, 02:13:21 PMAlso, will stores still end all prices with .99?
Why not? The sales tax will make it 1.05 or 1.06 or 1.072 or whatever the local rates are.
Only in places where that item is taxed.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 22, 2025, 03:57:27 PMI'd get rid off all coins except nickels, quarters and dollars. You can make every combination from $0.05 up through $1.95 with only 8 coins.
If only nickels weren't an even bigger money-sap to produce than pennies are.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 22, 2025, 03:57:27 PMGetting rid of $1 bills should be next.
Count me in. I've wanted that for years.
Quote from: kphoger on May 22, 2025, 04:41:36 PMIf only nickels weren't an even bigger money-sap to produce than pennies are.
Other countries have changed to steel or aluminum. We could do the same.
Quote from: hotdogPi on May 22, 2025, 04:48:11 PMQuote from: kphoger on May 22, 2025, 04:41:36 PMIf only nickels weren't an even bigger money-sap to produce than pennies are.
Other countries have changed to steel or aluminum. We could do the same.
Like the 1943 steel penny?
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 22, 2025, 03:57:27 PMQuote from: SectorZ on May 22, 2025, 01:58:13 PMLet's get rid of nickels and quarters, too, and round to ten cents. We can have dimes, half-dollars, and dollar coins. That's my dream.
I'd get rid off all coins except nickels, quarters and dollars. You can make every combination from $0.05 up through $1.95 with only 8 coins.
As someone who worked with large amounts of cash on a daily basis, you're a monster. You must be stopped.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 22, 2025, 03:57:27 PMGetting rid of $1 bills should be next.
This would be illegal—the company that makes the bill paper got their Senator to pass a law that prohibits the government from changing the $1 bill in any way. (This is why its design doesn't match the other denominations.)
Over here I've refused to carry any coins less than €0.05 for a while now. When I get anything lower as change, I set them apart until I can exchange them for a larger coin.
I believe it was one of our senators from Massachusetts who saw to it that no changes could come to the dollar bill. The paper is manufactured by the Crane Paper Company in Dalton.
I barely use cash anymore, so I have no real reason to care.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 22, 2025, 03:57:27 PMGetting rid of $1 bills should be next.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 22, 2025, 05:20:30 PMThis would be illegal—the company that makes the bill paper got their Senator to pass a law that prohibits the government from changing the $1 bill in any way. (This is why its design doesn't match the other denominations.)
The bill (https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-114publ113/pdf/PLAW-114publ113.pdf) (888-page .pdf warning) only prohibits redesigning the dollar bill. It doesn't say they can't stop printing them or remove them from circulation.
Quote from: Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2016Public Law 114-113 — 114th Congress
Division E — Financial Services and General Government Appropriations Act, 2016
Title I — Department of the Treasury
Administrative Provisions — Department of the Treasury
Sec. 117 — None of the funds appropriated in this Act or otherwise available to the Department of the Treasury or the Bureau of Engraving and Printing may be used to redesign the $1 Federal Reserve note.
Quote from: kphoger on May 22, 2025, 04:41:36 PMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 22, 2025, 03:57:27 PMI'd get rid off all coins except nickels, quarters and dollars. You can make every combination from $0.05 up through $1.95 with only 8 coins.
If only nickels weren't an even bigger money-sap to produce than pennies are.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 22, 2025, 03:57:27 PMGetting rid of $1 bills should be next.
Count me in. I've wanted that for years.
As I have said in here before, I'd go with a slate of coins for 25¢, $1, $2 and $5 and banknotes for $10 on up (subject to further inflation-related changes).
Right now, 'Pennies' and Nickels cannot be made at a profit by the feds and the local coin laundry (the perfect place to get ones' money cleaned!) would LOVE the higher-valued coins.
Mike
I doubt anybody would care if the price of any product they purchase were changed to nearest 25¢. In fact, I suspect most of them wouldn't even notice.
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on May 23, 2025, 05:31:16 AMI believe it was one of our senators from Massachusetts who saw to it that no changes could come to the dollar bill. The paper is manufactured by the Crane Paper Company in Dalton.
The (late) Teddy Kennedy?
Mike
I've had two local pizza/sub places of the "mainly takeout/delivery" type round down to the nearest 50¢ when I pay cash, even if up is closer. The owner of my local Magic: the Gathering store also rounds to the nearest dollar when I pay cash for events, although it's sometimes the opposite direction if the rounding has gone up or down the last few times I've paid.
I support rounding to the nearest 25¢. It might be a bit too much of a gap; I would prefer 10¢ rounding, but this is impossible because we have a coin that's not a multiple of 10¢.
Most things that have a price difference of less than 25¢ are fairly arbitrary; for example, if a 48 oz tub of yogurt is $2.89 and a 48 oz tub of applesauce is $2.79, they could both be made $2.75 or $3.00, or even $3.00 for the yogurt and $2.75 for the applesauce, without much of an issue. This assumes prices are rounded per item, too, which they might or might not be.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 22, 2025, 03:57:27 PMI'd get rid off all coins except nickels, quarters and dollars. You can make every combination from $0.05 up through $1.95 with only 8 coins.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 22, 2025, 05:20:30 PMAs someone who worked with large amounts of cash on a daily basis, you're a monster. You must be stopped.
And yes, I fully expect a detailed reply from you on this, but...
Will you please explain how that would be bad? I get that 45¢ would be one quarter and four nickels instead of one quarter and two dimes, but that doesn't really seem like a big deal to me—certainly no worse than 44¢ right now being seven coins.
(By the way, Google AI thinks you can make 44¢ with only six coins: 1 quarter, 1 dime, 1 nickel, 3 pennies.)
I wonder if perhaps the next administration of a different party than the current administration would reverse that decision and start minting the penny again?
Sorta makes me wish I hadn't cashed in all those pennies I had saved a couple of years ago.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 23, 2025, 12:08:11 PMI wonder if perhaps the next administration of a different party than the current administration would reverse that decision and start minting the penny again?
Sorta makes me wish I hadn't cashed in all those pennies I had saved a couple of years ago.
I know just about everything today is partisan, but I don't think this is. The only people truly in favor of still minting pennies are those from Illinois, regardless of party.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 23, 2025, 12:08:11 PMSorta makes me wish I hadn't cashed in all those pennies I had saved a couple of years ago.
Why? Do you imagine they'd be worth a fortune soon?
Canadian pennies haven't seen a spike in value the way, say, wheat pennies in the US have. The same is true with pretty much every recently discontinued coin.
I wouldn't foresee pennies being vacuumed out of circulation like in the US or prices of each individual item rounded (at least, not in most places). Maybe if Congress passed a law that would happen, but this is just Trump not wanting to make more, so it's likely the existing ones will continue to circulate because to get rid of them would make this change permanent enough to trigger the lobbying that's prevented it all these years. If/when pennies get scarce, businesses will likely round naturally to the nearest nickel for cash purchases since that's the same method that's used to round to the nearest dollar for taxes. As for prices, sales tax means that everything won't be nice and neat regardless, so why should prices round when that won't mean much? I could see maybe in jurisdictions that don't have sales tax, but not elsewhere, unless it's something priced nationally. The countries where prices changed have their taxes built in to the listed prices, so there's no percentage applied at the end.
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 10:51:04 AMQuote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 22, 2025, 03:57:27 PMGetting rid of $1 bills should be next.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 22, 2025, 05:20:30 PMThis would be illegal—the company that makes the bill paper got their Senator to pass a law that prohibits the government from changing the $1 bill in any way. (This is why its design doesn't match the other denominations.)
The bill (https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-114publ113/pdf/PLAW-114publ113.pdf) (888-page .pdf warning) only prohibits redesigning the dollar bill. It doesn't say they can't stop printing them or remove them from circulation.
Quote from: Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2016Public Law 114-113 — 114th Congress
Division E — Financial Services and General Government Appropriations Act, 2016
Title I — Department of the Treasury
Administrative Provisions — Department of the Treasury
Sec. 117 — None of the funds appropriated in this Act or otherwise available to the Department of the Treasury or the Bureau of Engraving and Printing may be used to redesign the $1 Federal Reserve note.
I get why they don't want the bill discontinued in favor of a coin (like the rest of the world has done), but why keep the bill's design locked in time?
Quote from: vdeane on May 23, 2025, 12:46:39 PMAs for prices, sales tax means that everything won't be nice and neat regardless, so why should prices round when that won't mean much? I could see maybe in jurisdictions that don't have sales tax, but not elsewhere, unless it's something priced nationally. The countries where prices changed have their taxes built in to the listed prices, so there's no percentage applied at the end.
Groceries are untaxed in most states.
Quote from: hotdogPi on May 23, 2025, 12:49:43 PMGroceries are untaxed in most states
Sure, but you buy one bottle of dish washing liquid, and there you go.
An interesting conundrum would be that if sales taxes need to round off, who would eat that? The State sure doesn't want to.
Quote from: GaryV on May 23, 2025, 01:13:03 PMQuote from: hotdogPi on May 23, 2025, 12:49:43 PMGroceries are untaxed in most states
Sure, but you buy one bottle of dish washing liquid, and there you go.
An interesting conundrum would be that if sales taxes need to round off, who would eat that? The State sure doesn't want to.
One of the issues is that states may have laws rounding purchases or sales taxes to the nearest penny. As with many things being pushed thru currently, either no thought or no care is being given to issues that may arise.
What will outlast the other:
US PENNY
or
JC PENNEY?
Let the betting begin...
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 23, 2025, 12:18:07 PMQuote from: hbelkins on May 23, 2025, 12:08:11 PMI wonder if perhaps the next administration of a different party than the current administration would reverse that decision and start minting the penny again?
Sorta makes me wish I hadn't cashed in all those pennies I had saved a couple of years ago.
I know just about everything today is partisan, but I don't think this is. The only people truly in favor of still minting pennies are those from Illinois, regardless of party.
Also Tennessee (where the maker of the blanks is from).
Mike
Quote from: hotdogPi on May 23, 2025, 12:24:41 PMCanadian pennies haven't seen a spike in value the way, say, wheat pennies in the US have. The same is true with pretty much every recently discontinued coin.
Common USA 'Wheaties' (1936 dated and later) in normal circulated condition are now just under 3.25¢ each - melt value for all bronzies (made until late 1982).
Mike
Quote from: GaryV on May 23, 2025, 01:13:03 PMAn interesting conundrum would be that if sales taxes need to round off, who would eat that? The State sure doesn't want to.
What does the bolded phrase mean?
Just set the rate card to round the final tax total up/down to the nearest increment of what is currently in circulation.
Mike
I don't understand what the phrase means to begin with. How do sales taxes 'round off'?
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 03:11:05 PMI don't understand what the phrase means to begin with. How do sales taxes 'round off'?
If the result is not a factor of five, round up...
Well, the tax is whatever the percent rate is of the total of all taxable items, rounded up/down to the nearest 1¢. No 'Pennies' in circulation? then set it to round up/down to the nearest 5¢.
Mike
Quote from: Rothman on May 23, 2025, 03:12:14 PMIf the result is not a factor of five, round up...
So, exactly how sales tax
already rounds off?
Sales tax in my city is 7.5%. If I go to the gas station and buy a drink that costs $1.79, the tax I owe should be 13.425¢. But, of course, that 0.425¢ gets rounded off.
The State sure doesn't want to eat that!
Oh wow, the US is doing what we did back in 2012. For what it's worth, we round to the nearest multiple of 5, and this includes taxes, but nowadays people mostly use debit/credit so it doesn't matter all that often, as those aren't rounded.
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 03:24:03 PMQuote from: Rothman on May 23, 2025, 03:12:14 PMIf the result is not a factor of five, round up...
So, exactly how sales tax already rounds off?
Sales tax in my city is 7.5%. If I go to the gas station and buy a drink that costs $1.79, the tax I owe should be 13.425¢. But, of course, that 0.425¢ gets rounded off. The State sure doesn't want to eat that!
Now, your total bill is $1.92. 'After', it will be $1.90. Pretty easy to figure out.
Mike
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 03:24:03 PMSo, exactly how sales tax already rounds off?
Sales tax in my city is 7.5%. If I go to the gas station and buy a drink that costs $1.79, the tax I owe should be 13.425¢. But, of course, that 0.425¢ gets rounded off. The State sure doesn't want to eat that!
Quote from: mgk920 on May 23, 2025, 03:35:18 PMNow, your total bill is $1.92. 'After', it will be $1.90. Pretty easy to figure out.
Yep. And if that drink is $1.89 instead, then the theoretical tax due is currently 14.175¢. Of course, that gets rounded off too.
Now, my total is $2.03. 'After', it will be $2.05. Pretty easy to figure out.
Two cents down in one instance, two cents up in the other.
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 10:51:04 AMThe bill (https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-114publ113/pdf/PLAW-114publ113.pdf) (888-page .pdf warning) only prohibits redesigning the dollar bill. It doesn't say they can't stop printing them or remove them from circulation.
The law in question far predates that—it was passed during the early 2000s in response to the Sacajawea dollar. (I've dug it up once before, but it was long enough ago I can't quote chapter and verse.)
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 12:01:31 PMWill you please explain how that would be bad? I get that 45¢ would be one quarter and four nickels instead of one quarter and two dimes, but that doesn't really seem like a big deal to me—certainly no worse than 44¢ right now being seven coins.
Because a roll of coins contains either 40 or 50 pieces. (For nickels, it's 40.) So you only need ten transactions involving four nickels and you've run through a whole roll, which means you have to close the window to get more nickels, which means customers start screaming. So much screaming. I can still hear it when I drift off to sleep sometimes...
Most cash drawers have enough space for a roll or two of extra change, but not enough space to hold enough rolls of nickels to get you through an 8 hour shift if you're using 4 of them per transaction.
With the current coin system, you will never have a transaction where you give away more than one nickel, meaning that your worst case scenario is having to get nickels every 40 transactions. You will also never have a transaction where you give away more than two dimes, meaning that your worst case scenario is having to get dimes every 25 transactions (50 dimes to the roll).
So, then... is there any way in which nickels don't suck?
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 04:01:58 PMSo, then... is there any way in which nickels don't suck?
Nope. They were always my least favorite coin. (Which is sad, because I sort of like Thomas Jefferson.)
(In case you were wondering what my least favorite denomination of paper money is—and I know you're
all on tenterhooks for that information—probably the $50, followed close by the $5, but the latter is entirely due to Fed mismanagement rather than anything inherently wrong with the denomination itself.)
Make $1 a coin, ramp up production of $2 bills so western Massachusetts doesn't get mad, and you'll still have plenty of Jeffersons.
All of the arguments against killing the penny I've ever heard (not just this thread) only mention non-problems or very solvable problems.
I also wonder if I shouldn't have cashed in huge quantities of pennies, as I have done in recent months.
Quote from: Jim on May 23, 2025, 04:09:48 PMI also wonder if I shouldn't have cashed in huge quantities of pennies
Why?
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 04:34:09 PMQuote from: Jim on May 23, 2025, 04:09:48 PMI also wonder if I shouldn't have cashed in huge quantities of pennies
Why?
They probably won't be, but maybe they'd be worth more than a 1 cent each at some point. In any case, it probably isn't going to make or break my future financial security.
Quote from: Jim on May 23, 2025, 04:09:48 PMI also wonder if I shouldn't have cashed in huge quantities of pennies, as I have done in recent months.
Depends on how many of them were bronze (the only ones with a melt value higher than 1 cent). I have a non-huge quantity of bronze pennies, which I picked out of my pocket change as I acquired them largely to check whether I needed new glasses, then spent the zinc pennies (current melt value of only about 0.7 cent each) at self-serve checkouts. If you didn't do that, the mostly-zinc ones in your stash probably had an average melt value less than 1 cent.
Even that depends on whether the Treasury repeals its regulation against melting pennies, intended to maintain the supply of pennies in circulation, once it decides not to keep pennies in circulation.
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 03:04:35 PMQuote from: GaryV on May 23, 2025, 01:13:03 PMAn interesting conundrum would be that if sales taxes need to round off, who would eat that? The State sure doesn't want to.
What does the bolded phrase mean?
Every item in your shopping cart could be priced to the nearest nickel (or dime or quarter if that's the smallest coin). But sales tax could very well add a non-nickel number of cents to the total bill. The total including tax is then rounded - who gets or doesn't get that rounded-off number of cents?
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 04:01:58 PMSo, then... is there any way in which nickels don't suck?
They don't have milled sides. The only other current US coins that don't have them are the penny and the dollar. Some sort of non-milled coin is nice for scraping things like scratch-and-lose lottery tickets or similar.
Quote from: GaryV on May 23, 2025, 06:34:22 PMEvery item in your shopping cart could be priced to the nearest nickel (or dime or quarter if that's the smallest coin). But sales tax could very well add a non-nickel number of cents to the total bill. The total including tax is then rounded - who gets or doesn't get that rounded-off number of cents?
I assume the retailers simply submit a report of total pre-tax sales to the relevant tax police and cut a check for the relevant percentage to cover sales tax.
As long as they follow the standard mathematics rules of rounding, it should be a break-even proposition.
Quote from: Jim on May 23, 2025, 05:00:51 PMQuote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 04:34:09 PMQuote from: Jim on May 23, 2025, 04:09:48 PMI also wonder if I shouldn't have cashed in huge quantities of pennies
Why?
They probably won't be, but maybe they'd be worth more than a 1 cent each at some point. In any case, it probably isn't going to make or break my future financial security.
Go to the bank and ask for a few rolls...
I wonder how we'll feel when we've spent up the last penny in our lives...
Quote from: GaryV on May 23, 2025, 06:34:22 PMEvery item in your shopping cart could be priced to the nearest nickel cent. But sales tax could very well add a non-nickel non-cent number of cents mills to the total bill. The total including tax is then rounded - who gets or doesn't get that rounded-off number of cents mills?
So, yeah, just like how sales currently rounds off.
Quote from: Henry on May 23, 2025, 09:41:31 PMI wonder how we'll feel when we've spent up the last penny in our lives...
The only times I recall having used American currency since pandemic lockdowns are:
- Tips (wheelchair pushers for my wife at the airport, valet parking, etc.)
- Lottery tickets
- "Green stamps" for requesting QSL cards for amateur radio contacts
I've been home from London for just over two weeks, and I still haven't bothered to swap the also-unnecessary Pound notes for American dollars in my wallet. (I did make a point of making a couple of purchases with Pounds and Icelandic Kroná for the purpose of getting some coins as souvenirs...)
I do, however, expect to need to use cash occasionally when I visit Germany in a few weeks, although even there I understand that enough places have started accepting plastic/contactless in the past few years that I could do without but-for public pay toilets.
The US currency system should copy Canada's.
5, 10, 25, 50, $1, $2 coins. 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 $$ bills.
50¢ coins circulate in Canada like they do here in the USA. I do like the other higher value coins there, though.
Mike
Quote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2025, 10:43:29 AMThe US currency system should copy Canada's.
5, 10, 25, 50, $1, $2 coins. 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 $$ bills.
Commie.
Quote from: SectorZ on May 22, 2025, 01:58:13 PMLet's get rid of nickels and quarters, too, and round to ten cents. We can have dimes, half-dollars, and dollar coins. That's my dream.
Not sure on the nickels, but we need rid of the dollar bill. While dollar bills' manufacturing cost (about 7.5 cents ) is around half the cost of a dollar coin (between 12 and 13 cents each). The coin lasts between 4 & 5 times as long if you assume the lifespan of dollar bills as (6.6 years per the US Treasury) and using the lifespan of the widely circulated quarter at around 30 years.
Americans don't like coins.
Stop suggesting making $1 coins.
Americans don't like coins.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:15:35 PMAmericans don't like coins.
Stop suggesting making $1 coins.
Americans don't like coins.
Looks like people don't like mixing coins and bills. Make coins large enough so that fast food meal is about largest coin, $10 maybe, and it may work.
Or make more robust plastic bills, 25c or less, so that coins are not really required
Quote from: kalvado on May 24, 2025, 04:21:27 PMQuote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:15:35 PMAmericans don't like coins.
Stop suggesting making $1 coins.
Americans don't like coins.
Looks like people don't like mixing coins and bills. Make coins large enough so that fast food meal is about largest coin, $10 maybe, and it may work.
Or make more robust plastic bills, 25c or less, so that coins are not really required
For what it's worth, I'm paying with a credit card generally regardless of the amount. For those times I do use cash - such as for tips - I don't want to carry around coins, and I'm pretty sure the server or bartender also doesn't want a pocketful of coins.
The feds currently have over 1.5 billion dollar coins in storage, due to a now repealed law that mandated over production. Plus 1 billion in circulation. There are about $14 billion dollar bills.
Freed from making pennies, they could easily ramp up dollar and two dollar coins, and in say three years, just require banks to return one dollar bills to the Fed as they pass through, and quickly replace the dollar bill, which is what Canada did.
Death to pennies is a good policy move and will not affect society in any negative way.
Quote from: kalvado on May 23, 2025, 07:28:32 PMQuote from: Jim on May 23, 2025, 05:00:51 PMThey probably won't be, but maybe they'd be worth more than a 1 cent each at some point. In any case, it probably isn't going to make or break my future financial security.
Go to the bank and ask for a few rolls...
Back when I was buying penny rolls to add to the pennies I got in change, I often got rolls of pennies that had been thoroughly picked through by other bank customers. They removed all the bronze pennies (1981-earlier, and some 1982s), leaving only copper-plated zine pennies with a melt value less than face. I gave up at that point.
Quote from: oscar on May 24, 2025, 04:54:40 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 23, 2025, 07:28:32 PMQuote from: Jim on May 23, 2025, 05:00:51 PMThey probably won't be, but maybe they'd be worth more than a 1 cent each at some point. In any case, it probably isn't going to make or break my future financial security.
Go to the bank and ask for a few rolls...
Back when I was buying penny rolls to add to the pennies I got in change, I often got rolls of pennies that had been thoroughly picked through by other bank customers. They removed all the bronze pennies (1981-earlier, and some 1982s), leaving only copper-plated zine pennies with a melt value less than face. I gave up at that point.
The year indication became smaller with the zinc pennies. can see with the different 1982 pennies.
Quote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2025, 04:52:36 PMFreed from making pennies, they could easily ramp up dollar and two dollar coins, and in say three years, just require banks to return one dollar bills to the Fed as they pass through, and quickly replace the dollar bill, which is what Canada did.
They can't actually do that, though. It's illegal. A company makes the bill paper and you'll make them sad.
Just like the idea of "more dollar coins", the "melt value" people talk a big game but also never seem to actually show up.
I spend cash so rarely any longer that penny hoarding seems to be a waste of time. The few times I handle actual cash, it's usually in whole dollar amounts (fairs, a handful of restaurants, tips) or vending machines/parking meters, which necessitates almost zero need for one cent pieces, let alone exact change.
I'll probably pick through a few for coin collecting and get the rest to the bank before nobody wants to accept them.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:28:04 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 24, 2025, 04:21:27 PMQuote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:15:35 PMAmericans don't like coins.
Stop suggesting making $1 coins.
Americans don't like coins.
Looks like people don't like mixing coins and bills. Make coins large enough so that fast food meal is about largest coin, $10 maybe, and it may work.
Or make more robust plastic bills, 25c or less, so that coins are not really required
For what it's worth, I'm paying with a credit card generally regardless of the amount. For those times I do use cash - such as for tips - I don't want to carry around coins, and I'm pretty sure the server or bartender also doesn't want a pocketful of coins.
So you going to Magic City? I hear that the current vibe there starts with Mr. Lincoln.
Quote from: Big John on May 24, 2025, 06:18:50 PMQuote from: oscar on May 24, 2025, 04:54:40 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 23, 2025, 07:28:32 PMQuote from: Jim on May 23, 2025, 05:00:51 PMThey probably won't be, but maybe they'd be worth more than a 1 cent each at some point. In any case, it probably isn't going to make or break my future financial security.
Go to the bank and ask for a few rolls...
Back when I was buying penny rolls to add to the pennies I got in change, I often got rolls of pennies that had been thoroughly picked through by other bank customers. They removed all the bronze pennies (1981-earlier, and some 1982s), leaving only copper-plated zine pennies with a melt value less than face. I gave up at that point.
The year indication became smaller with the zinc pennies. can see with the different 1982 pennies.
There are large date and small date cents of either composition. Seven different combinations of composition, date size and mint for 1982 circulating cents.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 24, 2025, 06:32:33 PMQuote from: SP Cook on May 24, 2025, 04:52:36 PMFreed from making pennies, they could easily ramp up dollar and two dollar coins, and in say three years, just require banks to return one dollar bills to the Fed as they pass through, and quickly replace the dollar bill, which is what Canada did.
They can't actually do that, though. It's illegal. A company makes the bill paper and you'll make them sad.
What about the paper for the other bills?
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 10:51:04 AMThe bill (https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-114publ113/pdf/PLAW-114publ113.pdf) (888-page .pdf warning) only prohibits redesigning the dollar bill. It doesn't say they can't stop printing them or remove them from circulation.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 23, 2025, 03:58:30 PMThe law in question far predates that—it was passed during the early 2000s in response to the Sacajawea dollar. (I've dug it up once before, but it was long enough ago I can't quote chapter and verse.)
Forgive my skepticism, but I'll believe it when I see evidence.
Quote from: kphoger on May 24, 2025, 10:43:25 PMForgive my skepticism, but I'll believe it when I see evidence.
Apparently the bill that I was thinking of—105th Congress HR 1098 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/house-bill/1098)—was never actually passed. (Or if it was, it was merged into some other bill.)
That was an hour's worth of research I'll never get back...
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 24, 2025, 11:42:23 PMQuote from: kphoger on May 24, 2025, 10:43:25 PMForgive my skepticism, but I'll believe it when I see evidence.
Apparently the bill that I was thinking of—105th Congress HR 1098 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/house-bill/1098)—was never actually passed. (Or if it was, it was merged into some other bill.)
That was an hour's worth of research I'll never get back...
But think of all the knowledge you gained to pass down to future generations.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 25, 2025, 09:54:48 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 24, 2025, 11:42:23 PMQuote from: kphoger on May 24, 2025, 10:43:25 PMForgive my skepticism, but I'll believe it when I see evidence.
Apparently the bill that I was thinking of—105th Congress HR 1098 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/house-bill/1098)—was never actually passed. (Or if it was, it was merged into some other bill.)
That was an hour's worth of research I'll never get back...
But think of all the knowledge you gained to pass down to future generations.
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF11414
As official as it gets
Dollar Note Redesign Prohibition
In many appropriations laws, Congress has included a provision that prohibits the Department of the Treasury or the BEP from redesigning the $1 note. For example, the most recent inclusion of this provision was in P.L. 117-328 (Div. E, Title I, §116), the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2023. It said "None of the funds appropriated in this Act or otherwise available to the Department of the Treasury or the Bureau of Engraving and Printing may be used to redesign the $1 Federal Reserve note."
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:28:04 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 24, 2025, 04:21:27 PMQuote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:15:35 PMAmericans don't like coins.
Stop suggesting making $1 coins.
Americans don't like coins.
Looks like people don't like mixing coins and bills. Make coins large enough so that fast food meal is about largest coin, $10 maybe, and it may work.
Or make more robust plastic bills, 25c or less, so that coins are not really required
For what it's worth, I'm paying with a credit card generally regardless of the amount. For those times I do use cash - such as for tips - I don't want to carry around coins, and I'm pretty sure the server or bartender also doesn't want a pocketful of coins.
I don't like 'swipe' fees, and neither do merchants.
Mike
Nickels also CANNOT be made at a profit to the federal government. You figure material cost (5.93¢ each - source: usa coin book.com, plus labor, utilities, transporation, security, depreciation on the equipment, etc. I would drop them and dimes, making quarters the lowest denomination available.
One also has to remember that a century ago, 1¢ in 1925 is about $1.20 today based on 'real' inflation. and yet the smallest denomination then was 1¢. (How did we survive that???)
Mike
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:28:04 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 24, 2025, 04:21:27 PMQuote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:15:35 PMAmericans don't like coins.
Stop suggesting making $1 coins.
Americans don't like coins.
Looks like people don't like mixing coins and bills. Make coins large enough so that fast food meal is about largest coin, $10 maybe, and it may work.
Or make more robust plastic bills, 25c or less, so that coins are not really required
For what it's worth, I'm paying with a credit card generally regardless of the amount. For those times I do use cash - such as for tips - I don't want to carry around coins, and I'm pretty sure the server or bartender also doesn't want a pocketful of coins.
Yeah I would rather have a dollar bill than a dollar coin.
Quote from: mgk920 on May 25, 2025, 10:36:30 AMNickels also CANNOT be made at a profit to the federal government. You figure material cost (5.93¢ each - source: usa coin book.com, plus labor, utilities, transporation, security, depreciation on the equipment, etc. I would drop them and dimes, making quarters the lowest denomination available.
The idea of profit makes no sense to me. They aren't selling the nickels. They are using them in transactions, which could happen hundreds of times during their lifetime.
Quote from: mgk920 on May 25, 2025, 10:26:17 AMQuote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:28:04 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 24, 2025, 04:21:27 PMQuote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:15:35 PMAmericans don't like coins.
Stop suggesting making $1 coins.
Americans don't like coins.
Looks like people don't like mixing coins and bills. Make coins large enough so that fast food meal is about largest coin, $10 maybe, and it may work.
Or make more robust plastic bills, 25c or less, so that coins are not really required
For what it's worth, I'm paying with a credit card generally regardless of the amount. For those times I do use cash - such as for tips - I don't want to carry around coins, and I'm pretty sure the server or bartender also doesn't want a pocketful of coins.
I don't like 'swipe' fees, and neither do merchants.
Mike
There are also fees associated with cash.
As for swipe fees .. customers are conditioned to cash back offers. I'm afraid they would have to go, also bringing transaction fees down
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2025, 11:06:44 AMQuote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:28:04 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 24, 2025, 04:21:27 PMQuote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2025, 04:15:35 PMAmericans don't like coins.
Stop suggesting making $1 coins.
Americans don't like coins.
Looks like people don't like mixing coins and bills. Make coins large enough so that fast food meal is about largest coin, $10 maybe, and it may work.
Or make more robust plastic bills, 25c or less, so that coins are not really required
For what it's worth, I'm paying with a credit card generally regardless of the amount. For those times I do use cash - such as for tips - I don't want to carry around coins, and I'm pretty sure the server or bartender also doesn't want a pocketful of coins.
Yeah I would rather have a dollar bill than a dollar coin.
How about all coins up to $20 and no bills until you really need serious shopping for cash?
Regarding nickels and their cost: steel or aluminum.
Regarding dollar bills vs. dollar coins:
* I'm not sure servers at restaurants would have a whole bunch of them, as they might give out more than they receive. And if $2, either a bill or a coin, commonly gets used, you're not going to get four at once.
* Wallets might be slightly heavier, but not by much — we got rid of the penny, and I expect fewer $1 coins than pennies in a given wallet.
Regarding the $1 bill law: if $1 coins replace $1 bills but they ramp up production of $2 bills, they'll be fine, especially since they'd be making a whole bunch in the first few years as you need some for everyone rather than just enough to replace the ones going out of circulation. This would require a change in the law, but they wouldn't oppose it.
I don't care if pennies go away but then again we are in a different era when debit and credit cards have been the primary option for retailers for some time.
Quote from: kalvado on May 25, 2025, 11:11:17 AMAs for swipe fees .. customers are conditioned to cash back offers. I'm afraid they would have to go, also bringing transaction fees down
Cash back is what encourages me to use cards except for small transactions. All three of my credit cards provide cash back.
I don't like points or air miles, which some cards provide instead of cash back. The value of cash back rewards is definite, and harder for card companies to screw around with.
I remember back around 2000 there was a proposal to drop the penny, and add $2 and $5 coins.
In the meantime, most items in vending machines these days are at least a dollar, but most machines don't take $5 bills. I saw one at a rest area on I think I-90 in Washington - it gave Sacagaweas as change.
Then there was the time in college I put a $20 bill in a stamp machine and got lots of Susan B. Anthonys back.
Get rid of all of the coins but half-dollars, and all of the bills, and replace them with $1, $5, $25, $100, and $500 chips.
Quote from: mgk920 on May 25, 2025, 10:36:30 AMNickels also CANNOT be made at a profit to the federal government. You figure material cost (5.93¢ each - source: usa coin book.com, plus labor, utilities, transporation, security, depreciation on the equipment, etc. I would drop them and dimes, making quarters the lowest denomination available.
One also has to remember that a century ago, 1¢ in 1925 is about $1.20 today based on 'real' inflation. and yet the smallest denomination then was 1¢. (How did we survive that???)
Mike
The utility of coinage means it can be spent multiple times over. Once released into circulation, coinage pays for itself after a handful of transactions.
Nothing large nor small is manufactured without a hint of profit until it is sold and reached a point of utility.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2025, 11:08:23 AMQuote from: mgk920 on May 25, 2025, 10:36:30 AMNickels also CANNOT be made at a profit to the federal government. You figure material cost (5.93¢ each - source: usa coin book.com, plus labor, utilities, transporation, security, depreciation on the equipment, etc. I would drop them and dimes, making quarters the lowest denomination available.
The idea of profit makes no sense to me. They aren't selling the nickels. They are using them in transactions, which could happen hundreds of times during their lifetime.
Technically they are selling the nickels to banks. Banks exchange other currency for the nickels.
Given the deficit that nickels cause, I amend my previous statement to re-include dimes.
I still think half-dollar coins, $10 and $50 bills are pointless though.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 26, 2025, 01:37:11 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2025, 11:08:23 AMQuote from: mgk920 on May 25, 2025, 10:36:30 AMNickels also CANNOT be made at a profit to the federal government. You figure material cost (5.93¢ each - source: usa coin book.com, plus labor, utilities, transporation, security, depreciation on the equipment, etc. I would drop them and dimes, making quarters the lowest denomination available.
The idea of profit makes no sense to me. They aren't selling the nickels. They are using them in transactions, which could happen hundreds of times during their lifetime.
Technically they are selling the nickels to banks. Banks exchange other currency for the nickels.
Given the deficit that nickels cause, I amend my previous statement to re-include dimes.
I still think half-dollar coins, $10 and $50 bills are pointless though.
The term for the difference between the cost of making a piece of money and its face value is called 'seigniorage' (a GREAT spelling bee word!). Pennies and nickels both have negative seigniorage and dimes are useless for everyday commerce, only useful, along with pennies and nickels, for the fine parsing of state and local sales taxes.
Mike
I can see pennies as being not worth stamping, but the U.S. government is not in the business of turning a profit. In the absence of pennies, nickels will suffice and the U.S. Treasury can more than cover the leading loss with other denominations.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on May 22, 2025, 03:57:27 PMGetting rid of $1 bills should be next.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 22, 2025, 05:20:30 PMThis would be illegal—the company that makes the bill paper got their Senator to pass a law that prohibits the government from changing the $1 bill in any way. (This is why its design doesn't match the other denominations.)
Quote from: kphoger on May 23, 2025, 10:51:04 AMThe bill (https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-114publ113/pdf/PLAW-114publ113.pdf) (888-page .pdf warning) only prohibits redesigning the dollar bill. It doesn't say they can't stop printing them or remove them from circulation.
Quote from: Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2016Public Law 114-113 — 114th Congress
Division E — Financial Services and General Government Appropriations Act, 2016
Title I — Department of the Treasury
Administrative Provisions — Department of the Treasury
Sec. 117 — None of the funds appropriated in this Act or otherwise available to the Department of the Treasury or the Bureau of Engraving and Printing may be used to redesign the $1 Federal Reserve note.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 23, 2025, 03:58:30 PMThe law in question far predates that—it was passed during the early 2000s in response to the Sacajawea dollar. (I've dug it up once before, but it was long enough ago I can't quote chapter and verse.)
Quote from: kphoger on May 24, 2025, 10:43:25 PMForgive my skepticism, but I'll believe it when I see evidence.
Quote from: kalvado on May 25, 2025, 10:08:50 AMhttps://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF11414
As official as it gets
Dollar Note Redesign Prohibition
In many appropriations laws, Congress has included a provision that prohibits the Department of the Treasury or the BEP from redesigning the $1 note. For example, the most recent inclusion of this provision was in P.L. 117-328 (Div. E, Title I, §116), the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2023. It said "None of the funds appropriated in this Act or otherwise available to the Department of the Treasury or the Bureau of Engraving and Printing may be used to redesign the $1 Federal Reserve note."
As I said, what I was questioning is that it's illegal to get rid of them. I'm not questioning that it's illegal to redesign them, as I had already cited one such prohibition.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2025, 11:08:23 AMThe idea of profit makes no sense to me. They aren't selling the nickels. They are using them in transactions, which could happen hundreds of times during their lifetime.
They're all but useless for transactions, though. I would not give one fuck if every transaction from this point forward were rounded to the nearest 10¢ (or 25¢, for that matter), and I doubt it would make any difference to anyone else either.
Regarding the issue of redesign versus phase-out, I read somewhere that in addition to that statutory provision cited above, the other consideration with redesigning the $1 and the $2 is that apparently the evidence shows that neither one is counterfeited enough to make it worth the effort of redesigning them to add more security features.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 27, 2025, 09:32:15 AMRegarding the issue of redesign versus phase-out, I read somewhere that in addition to that statutory provision cited above, the other consideration with redesigning the $1 and the $2 is that apparently the evidence shows that neither one is counterfeited enough to make it worth the effort of redesigning them to add more security features.
How about maintaining single style across the currency set?
Or transitioning from paper to longer lifetime plastic?
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2025, 09:30:26 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2025, 11:08:23 AMThe idea of profit makes no sense to me. They aren't selling the nickels. They are using them in transactions, which could happen hundreds of times during their lifetime.
They're all but useless for transactions, though. I would not give one fuck if every transaction from this point forward were rounded to the nearest 10¢ (or 25¢, for that matter), and I doubt it would make any difference to anyone else either.
That's fine by me. I just don't think that the idea that a coin costs more to create than its value should have any bearing on that decision.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 27, 2025, 09:37:37 AMQuote from: kphoger on May 27, 2025, 09:30:26 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on May 25, 2025, 11:08:23 AMThe idea of profit makes no sense to me. They aren't selling the nickels. They are using them in transactions, which could happen hundreds of times during their lifetime.
They're all but useless for transactions, though. I would not give one fuck if every transaction from this point forward were rounded to the nearest 10¢ (or 25¢, for that matter), and I doubt it would make any difference to anyone else either.
That's fine by me. I just don't think that the idea that a coin costs more to create than its value should have any bearing on that decision.
You can look at it as cost-benefit thing, on a large scale it's about spending money on something providing little benefit.
On the next level, it's illegal to process US coins as scrap metal. Apparently a few people in this thread still look at that as a reality. While new zinc cents melt value of 0.7c is is still less than 1 cent, metal prices tend to go up. 5 cent melt value is about 5.7c
So at some point mint pays 7 cents to make something people buy for 5 cents and destroy to get 6....
Quote from: kalvado on May 25, 2025, 10:08:50 AMhttps://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF11414
As official as it gets
Dollar Note Redesign Prohibition
In many appropriations laws, Congress has included a provision that prohibits the Department of the Treasury or the BEP from redesigning the $1 note. For example, the most recent inclusion of this provision was in P.L. 117-328 (Div. E, Title I, §116), the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2023. It said "None of the funds appropriated in this Act or otherwise available to the Department of the Treasury or the Bureau of Engraving and Printing may be used to redesign the $1 Federal Reserve note."
So if someone donated their time and talent to redesign the bill, you could circumvent this?
Quote from: DTComposer on May 27, 2025, 09:53:25 AMSo if someone donated their time and talent to redesign the bill, you could circumvent this?
Heck, are there funds out there that
aren't part of the appropriations act?
I wonder if they'll end up having to mint extra nickels to make up for the stoppage of penny production.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 27, 2025, 09:37:37 AMI just don't think that the idea that a coin costs more to create than its value should have any bearing on that decision.
In antiquity, coins were worth their weight in the precious metal they were made of. This means it cost more to produce them than they were worth: the metal itself + the cost of production.
Quote from: Road Hog on May 26, 2025, 08:05:36 PMI can see pennies as being not worth stamping, but the U.S. government is not in the business of turning a profit. In the absence of pennies, nickels will suffice and the U.S. Treasury can more than cover the leading loss with other denominations.
Trying to make this as apolitical as possible, but the current administration seemingly thinks that the government should be run like a business, hence all the DOGE cuts to "unprofitable" programs. Understanding that the government is here to support us and give us benefits rather than being in the black is not a strong suit of our current leadership.
Quote from: Road Hog on May 26, 2025, 08:05:36 PMIn the absence of pennies, nickels will suffice and the U.S. Treasury can more than cover the leading loss with other denominations.
How do you figure, considering nickels cost almost as much to mint as quarters?
Well, actually, I think you meant that they can still make a 'profit' on all coins overall. But they already do that, with or without the penny.
(https://i.imgur.com/GgZIFVs.png)
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2025, 12:06:28 PMQuote from: Road Hog on May 26, 2025, 08:05:36 PMIn the absence of pennies, nickels will suffice and the U.S. Treasury can more than cover the leading loss with other denominations.
How do you figure, considering nickels cost almost as much to mint as quarters?
Well, actually, I think you meant that they can still make a 'profit' on all coins overall. But they already do that, with or without the penny.
(https://i.imgur.com/GgZIFVs.png)
So about 45 pennies made per person over 3 years, and 12 quarters over 3 years.
I don't know about your experience, but I do use quarters once in a while; I also save one or two of each new design I see. Pennies... maybe
Number-wise, it looks to me as if quarters and dimes are actually getting used, while pennies disappear into some void.
Wait, are 2024 nickels the next 2009?
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 27, 2025, 11:31:07 AMQuote from: Road Hog on May 26, 2025, 08:05:36 PMI can see pennies as being not worth stamping, but the U.S. government is not in the business of turning a profit. In the absence of pennies, nickels will suffice and the U.S. Treasury can more than cover the leading loss with other denominations.
Trying to make this as apolitical as possible, but the current administration seemingly thinks that the government should be run like a business, hence all the DOGE cuts to "unprofitable" programs. Understanding that the government is here to support us and give us benefits rather than being in the black is not a strong suit of our current leadership.
Trying to keep is as apolitical as well.. producing pennies and nickels did cost you, as an american taxpayer, about $2 over 3 years. That is in addition to transporting and counting costs - which actually come back to you via merchants and banks paying for that. Definitely not a deal breaker, but that may get one extra street per town paved every year..
Quote from: kalvado on May 27, 2025, 12:29:43 PMNumber-wise, it looks to me as if quarters and dimes are actually getting used, while pennies disappear into some void the Coinstar machine.
FTFY
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 27, 2025, 11:31:07 AMUnderstanding that the government is here to support us and give us benefits rather than being in the black is not a strong suit of our current leadership.
But pennies, and honestly probably nickels and dimes too, don't really provide any real support or benefit to us. As functioning currency to facilitate the exchange of goods, they are more of an annoyance and a hinderance than they are a useful tool.
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2025, 12:39:39 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 27, 2025, 12:29:43 PMNumber-wise, it looks to me as if quarters and dimes are actually getting used, while pennies disappear into some void the Coinstar machine.
FTFY
Nope. Coinstar happily returns those pennies back into circulation, no need to make any replacement. I saw a guy using a trash can in leu of coinstar for pennies though... Alternatively, we can think about people hoarding 10-20 pennies a year into a never-emptying piggy-can. No real loss for most if those pennies are never given away in the first place.
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2025, 12:39:39 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 27, 2025, 12:29:43 PMNumber-wise, it looks to me as if quarters and dimes are actually getting used, while pennies disappear into some void [the Coinstar machine] an old Culligan water jug in the garage.
FTFY
Better?
Quote from: kalvado on May 27, 2025, 12:44:59 PMNo real loss for most if those pennies are never given away in the first place.
Exactly. If I'm paying cash for something, then the only reason I'll reach for pennies instead of the next highest denomination is so that I can get rid of the pennies (which doesn't even work for all prices).
I worked at Stop & Shop from June 2018 to February 2020, which had a CoinStar. Some people would throw their rejected coins in the nearby trash can, which was fairly safe to dig through because it was mainly lottery tickets and containers. In addition to the expected damaged coins, coins stuck together, and foreign coins, there were many silver dimes (a few Canadian) and a few silver quarters. There was even one time I found an 1875 British threepence and was able to show it to the manager who saw me looking through the trash so I could explain that doing so is worthwhile. (Some managers allowed it, while others didn't. It depended on who was there that day.)
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2025, 12:44:27 PMQuote from: JayhawkCO on May 27, 2025, 11:31:07 AMUnderstanding that the government is here to support us and give us benefits rather than being in the black is not a strong suit of our current leadership.
But pennies, and honestly probably nickels and dimes too, don't really provide any real support or benefit to us. As functioning currency to facilitate the exchange of goods, they are more of an annoyance and a hinderance than they are a useful tool.
Oh for sure. I'm completely down with rounding everything to the closest quarter. I was just responding to the quote I referenced.
Quote from: hotdogPi on May 27, 2025, 01:10:41 PMI worked at Stop & Shop from June 2018 to February 2020, which had a CoinStar. Some people would throw their rejected coins in the nearby trash can, which was fairly safe to dig through because it was mainly lottery tickets and containers. In addition to the expected damaged coins, coins stuck together, and foreign coins, there were many silver dimes (a few Canadian) and a few silver quarters. There was even one time I found an 1875 British threepence and was able to show it to the manager who saw me looking through the trash so I could explain that doing so is worthwhile. (Some managers allowed it, while others didn't. It depended on who was there that day.)
That sort of thing is one reason why I often pick up coins I see on the ground as long as I'm not somewhere where it would be unsafe or too disruptive to do so (e.g., the passageway at Penn Station in New York from the 7th Avenue subway to the new Moynihan Train Hall is just plain too busy). I've found some interesting foreign coins on the sidewalk over the years.
The Coinstar machines generally take Canadian pennies but not other Canadian coins. I think their quarter is noticeably lighter than ours and very slightly smaller, for example (same for their dime).
Canadian nickels, dimes and quarters are also ferro-magnetic - attracted to magnets. (Note, a few varieties of Canadian nickels are not.)
Mike
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2025, 10:51:50 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on May 27, 2025, 09:37:37 AMI just don't think that the idea that a coin costs more to create than its value should have any bearing on that decision.
In antiquity, coins were worth their weight in the precious metal they were made of. This means it cost more to produce them than they were worth: the metal itself + the cost of production.
Cool.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 27, 2025, 03:44:54 PMQuote from: kphoger on May 27, 2025, 10:51:50 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on May 27, 2025, 09:37:37 AMI just don't think that the idea that a coin costs more to create than its value should have any bearing on that decision.
In antiquity, coins were worth their weight in the precious metal they were made of. This means it cost more to produce them than they were worth: the metal itself + the cost of production.
Cool.
Some wise man choose to issue coins by the piece, but collect them by weight to account for wear and tear of the precious metal. That's how the "pound of sterlings" came to be.
Quote from: kalvado on May 27, 2025, 03:53:21 PMQuote from: SEWIGuy on May 27, 2025, 03:44:54 PMQuote from: kphoger on May 27, 2025, 10:51:50 AMQuote from: SEWIGuy on May 27, 2025, 09:37:37 AMI just don't think that the idea that a coin costs more to create than its value should have any bearing on that decision.
In antiquity, coins were worth their weight in the precious metal they were made of. This means it cost more to produce them than they were worth: the metal itself + the cost of production.
Cool.
Some wise man choose to issue coins by the piece, but collect them by weight to account for wear and tear of the precious metal. That's how the "pound of sterlings" came to be.
such 'discounting' of coin deposits was a major issue in prior centuries.
Mike
I'm a manager at my store and every so often I'll unload my car cup holder into the register tills in exchange for a $5 or a $10. Still have coins left over.
I save quarters but use them regularly at the laundromat.