I'm doing some more thread pulling on LRN 9. This time, looking into the eastern end in San Bernardino led me up LRN 43 to Big Bear Lake. Specifically, the small connector road that goes between Big Bear and Baldwin Lakes, on the eastern end of the lake, that carries Route 38 across to the N side, and Route 18 across to the N side. Today, that is part of Route 18 (and, indeed, there is a discontinuity in Route 38 at that point).
Here's the question: Before 1964, what LRN was that segment? LRN 43 was running on the N side of the lake, signed as Sign Route 18 and continuing E and down the back of the mountain. LRN 190 was coming up from the NE, and was Sign Route 38 to the crossing, and Sign Route 30 on the southern side of the lake. But that crossing: What was its LRN (as it wasn't clearly LRN 43 or LRN 190, and maps don't label at that detail), and what was its signage (if any)?
FWIW here is a historic photo showing 30 and 18 branching at the dam. I included this West Coast Roads link since my comments go into detail about what is on the photo:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/16iiYqaGJA/?
The source page:
https://www.facebook.com/share/1BGXpmrzEr/?mibextid=wwXIfr
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 12, 2025, 02:19:16 PMFWIW here is a historic photo showing 30 and 18 branching at the dam. I included this West Coast Roads link since my comments go into detail about what is on the photo:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/16iiYqaGJA/?
The source page:
https://www.facebook.com/share/1BGXpmrzEr/?mibextid=wwXIfr
However, that's not what I'm asking about. That's at the western end of Big Bear Lake. I'm asking about the eastern end, where pre-1964 Route 30 met Route 38, and where today there's a discontinuity in Route 38
Quote from: cahwyguy on August 12, 2025, 02:29:35 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on August 12, 2025, 02:19:16 PMFWIW here is a historic photo showing 30 and 18 branching at the dam. I included this West Coast Roads link since my comments go into detail about what is on the photo:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/16iiYqaGJA/?
The source page:
https://www.facebook.com/share/1BGXpmrzEr/?mibextid=wwXIfr
However, that's not what I'm asking about. That's at the western end of Big Bear Lake. I'm asking about the eastern end, where pre-1964 Route 30 met Route 38, and where today there's a discontinuity in Route 38
Correct, I just wanted to head off any potential questions regarding which side of the lake 18 and 30 were on. I've been challenged myself dozens of times over the years when talk about Big Bear comes up.
Quote from: cahwyguy on August 12, 2025, 02:13:30 PMI'm doing some more thread pulling on LRN 9. This time, looking into the eastern end in San Bernardino led me up LRN 43 to Big Bear Lake. Specifically, the small connector road that goes between Big Bear and Baldwin Lakes, on the eastern end of the lake, that carries Route 38 across to the N side, and Route 18 across to the N side. Today, that is part of Route 18 (and, indeed, there is a discontinuity in Route 38 at that point).
Here's the question: Before 1964, what LRN was that segment? LRN 43 was running on the N side of the lake, signed as Sign Route 18 and continuing E and down the back of the mountain. LRN 190 was coming up from the NE, and was Sign Route 38 to the crossing, and Sign Route 30 on the southern side of the lake. But that crossing: What was its LRN (as it wasn't clearly LRN 43 or LRN 190, and maps don't label at that detail), and what was its signage (if any)?
I think this may be a "nevermind". The 1935 definition of LRN 43 includes "[LRN 43] includes a highway around Big Bear Lake.". So that presumably includes the crossover in Big Bear City. It also makes the definition of LRN 190 from the same year ambiguous: Does "[LRN 26] near Redlands to [LRN 43] near Big Bear Lake via Barton Flats" refer to the W end of the lake (which was LRN 43), or the crossover on the E end in Big Bear City (which was also LRN 43). Perhaps the real answer is that things were really loosy-goosey back then, and they didn't have the precision we roadgeeks look for today (there's something similar down in San Bernardino with respect to the continuity of LRN 43, which seemingly has a break at LRN 26 where there is the LRN 26 extension into San Bernardino from Colton).
This might also explain why some of the USGS maps seem to show Sign Route 18 on *both* sides of Big Bear Lake.