I know a lot of other non roadgeeks feel that freeways can be a nuisance, and what not. But my (several) semi-recent trips (last one Oct 16-17, 2010) made me really realize [I knew way before] that Texas has some really fancy freeways. Such as I-10 in San Antonio. Especially the 10-410 interchange.. So to make this a more "general" thread, are there any other states that build highways as cool as Texas does?
Here's an example of the I-10/410 interchange:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FTL-YgAkmGDI%2FAAAAAAAAGEA%2FOsz7M0QbcyU%2Fs800%2FSANY0025.JPG&hash=29e5b294f143b339c99f74d8d411a3e6eae7b53c)
Btw; I, like most Texans, pride myself on my Texanship. Just throwin' that out there..
BigMatt
Rebuilt I -74 in Illinois has very similar artsy bridge designs without the Texas star
As far as Texas highway scenery goes, I love the them on the Gulf Freeway (sky blue with palmettos and CA fan palms) and the West Loop (some artistic/modernistic crap). Next would come the Central Expressway.
Up in Pensacola, they put Blue Angels on the supports for the 10/110 interchange:
(https://www.aaroads.com/fl/010/i-010-w-exit-012-5.jpg)
(Stolen from AARoads)
But no, I can't think of anywhere else where the freeways are done up as fancy as some of them in Texas. The North Central Expressway in Dallas (US75) is another good example.
Huh, no yellow barrels or guardrails? They just let you crash into the bridge pier like that?
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 21, 2010, 10:19:32 AM
Huh, no yellow barrels or guardrails? They just let you crash into the bridge pier like that?
there's enough of a separation. by that point, if you want to crash into it, you are really wanting to crash into it.
if you want to complain about the nanny state in that area, how about the speed limit drop from 70 to 55 on I-10 at the 110 junction - eight lanes, high speed intersections all around, but who's going to let reality stand in the face of a good speed trap?
Quote from: realjd on October 21, 2010, 08:14:06 AM
But no, I can't think of anywhere else where the freeways are done up as fancy as some of them in Texas.
Florida is the only state I've seen to even come close.
the Phoenix area has some fairly well-landscaped freeways, as does New Mexico, especially in Albuquerque and Santa Fe. must be a southwest thing.
I-184 in Boise is well-landscaped.
But for fancy bridges and overpasses, look in New Mexico -- the pink and sky blue motifs, the New Mexico shape-thingy...
that shape-thingy is a zia!
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/NM/NM19310031i1.jpg)
Now that's a good circle shield! Will we be seeing that in the Shield Generator?
sometime, yep!
I immediatly noticed the unprotected bridge support. I thing it should be protected, especially since it's in a paved area. If this were in Texas, I believe it would be protected. They're lucky nobodys stolen those little airplanes yet.
At the I-35E / SH 121 interchange in Lewisville, Tx. somebody tried to steal the Texas-shaped mirrors, but they ended up breaking them.
I-90 through Seattle and Mercer Island beats Texas, since there's both freeway landscaping and actual natural scenery.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages090%2Fi-090_wt_60.jpg&hash=fd0720e0d18969f263f339b8f20f7602fce03953)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages090%2Fi-090_wt_61.jpg&hash=614ba4c5371d5cda1838acddbc1477e2335679aa)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages090%2Fi-090_wt_19.jpg&hash=a761aa453e6e30b1d30d1103208f1f9c41e2ec0b)
Notice the themed streetlighting and sign gantries.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages090%2Fi-090_wt_22.jpg&hash=7da58e523578b62cb1e30a2ca77150ef5bf85a47)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmercerislandrealestate.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F08%2Fi-90-bridge-photo.jpg&hash=5ba07f9ba6fefe4ad04914d7ebdeb2f29f5c781d)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.publicola.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F03%2FMercer_Island_I90-450.jpg&hash=8f56e7637c5bc9f361d404a35e31ef6612c90b21)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4137%2F4865733665_62aec4ce79_z.jpg&hash=0f7135ccc5f63d4e3d485f01cbb0cba7f5c11e36)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F1%2F1c%2FEast_Channel_Bridge_Wiki.JPG%2F800px-East_Channel_Bridge_Wiki.JPG&hash=41ff85bc1fc96bba8e18f6b90fcd3d6a4220c91e)
In about 8 miles, there are two tunnels and two bridges, and each overpass in Mercer Island is landscaped with plants.
I don't agree with that. Cause Texas freeways have landscaping too, so yeah..
Also this bridge is way better than any of those Seattle bridges:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=425388180873&set=a.425387440873.218534.44520755873&pid=5814508&id=44520755873
And this bridge and landscaping seems pretty nice too....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc1%2Fhs166.snc1%2F6213_150251065873_44520755873_3867171_3447776_n.jpg&hash=77d3981cc264da7135f3c9c4f87ba031426f7827)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc1%2Fhs166.snc1%2F6213_150251070873_44520755873_3867172_5758404_n.jpg&hash=00828be1cb3c9e7eea69930e09b9b8cabcf22e6a)
And this one is really nice, but almost looks like a waist of money. But I still like it:
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=San+Angelo,+Tom+Green,+Texas&ll=31.700909,-106.283984&spn=0,0.007725&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=31.700909,-106.283984&panoid=hmhCfkDI6d_U15lmiPECCA&cbp=12,318.02,,0,-9
BigMatt
Although I do like some of the fancy freeways TxDOT has made, IMO, they try way too hard to make it look nice. I mean, you seem to be pretty biased about Texas. But I'm no one to talk, because I think the northeast has the best freeways :D. Although this aren't as fancy schmancy as Texas or Florida, the new I-95/I-695 interchange north of Baltimore is pretty cool.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_ZkmN2RrOJxw%2FS8plmsx6LMI%2FAAAAAAAAX2M%2FohXUekZ4oZo%2Fs640%2FIMG_6014.JPG&hash=514e97c458480f21e0fa8236890d4e61d7bbea4d)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_ZkmN2RrOJxw%2FS8pllF3fCvI%2FAAAAAAAAX2M%2FBodV5_e6P9M%2Fs640%2FIMG_6011.JPG&hash=5590634261235a822355c7810eb65de418a0701a)
Gotta admit, those do look pretty cool, I like the whole water underneath and whatnot. Also the JFK looked cool. We have the shape of Texas on all of our bridges, and stacks, and stuff.
But I don't think the NE has the best freeways, haha. But that's your opinion, and I don't blame you cause I'm set on the fact that Texas has the best freeways..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/410near281.jpg
^That's a nice road there.
BigMatt
Bridges you say?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Tacoma_Narrows_Bridge_2009.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Tacoma_Narrows_Bridge_2009.jpg)
Quite honestly, Washington doesn't go overboard on overpasses:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2218%2F2344494194_208a89897b_z.jpg&hash=7b836ce6d88e9fbaee0bdb8c884b47fd191aaefa)
I really do like Washington's consitency on road hardware. I don't like Texas' street lighting at all. They overuse high masts, imo, and their sign gantries look much more industrial than Washington's.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2100%2F2268043582_82e38bb97f_z.jpg%3Fzz%3D1&hash=2d8ecd5a6e04e94b0ef9060ca965f4de94731d5a)
I really do like some of California's overpasses, though.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi205.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb153%2FKEK_INC%2F100_1283.jpg&hash=2cc26e92b65d135e163e8f6c05dbdaff6824b0b5)
They're minimalistic, safe (designed for earthquakes), and look more futuristic, frankly.
-- KEK, please remember we have a 800 width limit (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=992.0) on images posted in threads. Please remember to add the proper image code for the width/height or just add them as a URL link. Thanks. -- rmf67
QuotePhotos and images posted in forum threads should not exceed 800 pixels in width or 600 pixels in height. Everyone is not using the same monitor. To reference larger images, just add a link from the 800x600 sized image to the larger file in question.
I would argue that by far the most important criterion for evaluating the aesthetic appeal of a freeway relates to whether the alignment "flows" when viewed in perspective by the driver. Flowing alignment tends to be associated with coordination of horizontal and vertical curves and the use of long curves and short tangents rather than long tangents and short curves. Normally it results from purposeful evaluation and refinement of the alignment at the preliminary design stage. One method traditionally used for this is to plot the proposed alignment in perspective and look for unsightly bends and kinks. This technique was developed after early experience with German Autobahn alignments which conformed with prescribed design standards but were nevertheless felt to be ugly, and was spelled out by Viktor von Ranke in an article, "Raumperspektive," which appeared in a 1942 issue of Die Strasse. The following pictures are taken from von Ranke's article:
* Profiles of an original line and an altered, improved line generated from perspective evaluation of the original line (Auge means "eye" in German):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sabre-roads.org.uk%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fa8%2F2010-10-24-10_100_5515-crop-2.jpg&hash=adca6b355a55f4d67e72e2d8babf4c7bea035ab4)
* Perspective plot of original line:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sabre-roads.org.uk%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2F1%2F16%2F2010-10-24-10_100_5520-crop-2.jpg&hash=955a5d4b5b116a589a42abd86cd1d746e5c0097b)
* Perspective plot of improved line:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sabre-roads.org.uk%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2Fa%2Fa1%2F2010-10-24-10_100_5520-crop.jpg&hash=103be6f638dfecfdda69d70d7c7770a0fcb192cb)
The article is illustrated with other examples of refinement in alignment.
* Original:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sabre-roads.org.uk%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2F1%2F15%2F2010-10-24-10_100_5516-crop.jpg&hash=b5782d0f72f6b27c8f93952c3fdf140aa1d6b3f4)
* Refined:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sabre-roads.org.uk%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ff2%2F2010-10-24-10_100_5516-crop-2.jpg&hash=4826799e4d491e8fec0cba8c2a359eb304b2151e)
* Original:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sabre-roads.org.uk%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2F3%2F3f%2F2010-10-24-10_100_5515-crop.jpg&hash=6149b4cf50a6691da885184723b25522903e3b19)
* Refined:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sabre-roads.org.uk%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2F6%2F6c%2F2010-10-24-10_100_5515-crop-3.jpg&hash=6bfa463ae02f17046ebbcf010501bb667c2ecc5e)
Von Ranke's article was really just the start. A lot more work was subsequently done on the general problem of creating pleasing alignments, most of which was later summarized in Hans Lorenz's Trassierung und Gestaltung von Strassen und Autobahnen (1972), which has over 400 large pages printed in small type, not a single one of which mentions surface treatments like color washes and retaining-wall bas-reliefs like you see in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. In the US we almost completely ignored this line of research for decades. TRB (and the HRB before it) published very little on the aesthetics of alignment design, and American highway engineers interested in what are called "spline" alignments received very little institutional support and encouragement. We have a great many miles of Interstate highway which don't stand up to perspective alignment because the state highway agencies responsible adopted an assembly-line approach to design and took the attitude that any alignment which met the standards was acceptable. I think this was one unintended consequence of the succession of artificial completion deadlines for the Interstate highway system.
Nowadays we are more sensitive to alignment design issues. Partly this may be because we are adding incrementally to an existing system, rather than trying to roll out a finished network by a line-in-the-sand date. But perspective evaluation of proposed alignments is also much easier and cheaper to carry out with modern CAD programs than it was in von Ranke's day, and to an extent that method has been supplanted by direct 3D design. My personal experience as a driver in Texas has been that alignments tend to be much smoother on recent freeways than on older ones built from the 1950's to the 1970's.
In exactly one sentence, I will sum up what Mr. Winkler took a lifetime to say. "If it looks smooth on paper, the driver will find it smooth in reality."
That was simple. Haha
BigMatt
The thing is, if you choose the right scale, the plan and profile will look smooth when plotted separately but could very well look "kinky" to the driver when the road is actually built. This is what makes a perspective check useful. After the war, British engineers--who paid more attention to this than their American colleagues at first--tried some heuristics, such as a rule of thumb which held that any successful alignment would be like a line traced on the inside wall of a cylinder.
P.S. A few months ago I was discussing this aspect of curve design with a Spanish highway engineer, in connection with the A-381 autovía in Andalusia. He told me that the term of art in Spain for the "flowing line" is trazado perdido--literally, "lost trace." I had some difficulty wrapping my head around this . . .
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 26, 2010, 03:19:09 AM
He told me that the term of art in Spain for the "flowing line" is trazado perdido--literally, "lost trace." I had some difficulty wrapping my head around this . . .
I cannot even parse that. Is it some kind of Spanish idiom being lost in translation?
I think it is a metaphor. If the flowing-line philosophy has been followed in design, the driver is not supposed to perceive abrupt changes in bearing as he or she proceeds down the road, so in that sense (I assume) the trace has been "lost."
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 26, 2010, 11:50:41 AM
I think it is a metaphor. If the flowing-line philosophy has been followed in design, the driver is not supposed to perceive abrupt changes in bearing as he or she proceeds down the road, so in that sense (I assume) the trace has been "lost."
gotcha. your explanation makes sense to me... it may be something that is more immediately understood by a native Spanish speaker.
Quote(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sabre-roads.org.uk%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2F1%2F15%2F2010-10-24-10_100_5516-crop.jpg&hash=b5782d0f72f6b27c8f93952c3fdf140aa1d6b3f4)
Blick B - View B:
You can still see that German 1930's curvature design in today's Autobahns, even after they were widened. Here's some classic view:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2664%2F3762315391_23eab60e06_o.jpg&hash=682d0624687d33de43bdeaaa4c6641bb19e914dd) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/3762315391/)
78 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/3762315391/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr
When Atlanta's interstates were "supersized" back in the late '80s, downtown's elaborate interchanges and "spaghetti junction" (pictured) turned out to be quite elegant and futurist-looking.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2Fspaghetti.jpg&hash=4121fa2ba30b7f9596b5a7d61fd3bec50ddb150a)
And North Carolina's exposed, rusted steel beams have aged very well. In fact, it's hard to discern new interchanges from those built 30 years ago...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2Frdustack.jpg&hash=252a41271c30a762031ee2007ff72bf9156829f3)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2F85flyover-1.jpg&hash=e64f45a9be6d8cd47ac90430b89f7b162616afc0)
Fixed errant tag
How can Texas afford so many elaborate stacks while North Carolina must ration building flyovers which usually are the costliest single chunk of highway project?
^ Idk, maybe it has do do with Texas being like WAY bigger than N.C.?
Those exposed steel stacks look like their still under construction..
BigMatt