Quote from: BigMatt on October 20, 2010, 09:42:59 PM
Btw; I, like most Texans, pride myself on my Texanship.
Why are you proud of something that was a complete accident?
Well possibly because Texas is the most awesome state? Yeah. That's why ;)
BigMatt
Quote from: BigMatt on October 20, 2010, 09:59:36 PM
Well possibly because Texas is the most awesome state? Yeah. That's why ;)
BigMatt
:meh: :meh: :meh:
Quote from: BigMatt on October 20, 2010, 09:59:36 PM
Well possibly because Texas is the most awesome state? Yeah. That's why ;)
BigMatt
that does not meet the definition of "pride", as you cannot claim responsibility for its alleged awesomeness.
OMFG! This isn't the point of the damn thread okay. Dang.
BigMatt
Quote from: BigMatt on October 20, 2010, 09:59:36 PM
Well possibly because Texas is the most awesome state? Yeah. That's why ;)
BigMatt
Does Texas border one of the Great Lakes? No? Then it can't be on the most awesome state list IMHO. :sombrero:
Quote from: BigMatt on October 20, 2010, 10:11:25 PM
OMFG! This isn't the point of the damn thread okay. Dang.
BigMatt
Thread split. It is now. ;)
Assuming he contributes to his community in some form or another (he's too young to pay taxes, but I'm sure he does something), then he is actively helping to make Texas Texas. His initial birth in Texas may be an accident, but if he does anything at all to help make Texas a better place then he should feel like he can take pride in being a Texan.
Quote from: corco on October 20, 2010, 10:34:31 PM
(he's too young to pay taxes, but I'm sure he does something)
may he be conscious of his accomplishments.
Quote from: corco on October 20, 2010, 10:34:31 PM
Assuming he contributes to his community in some form or another (he's too young to pay taxes, but I'm sure he does something), then he is actively helping to make Texas Texas. His initial birth in Texas may be an accident, but if he does anything at all to help make Texas a better place then he should feel like he can take pride in being a Texan.
I suppose that is based on what one considers Texas to be. Is it a tract of land? Is it a legal entity? Is it a community? One would assume you are going with the last definition there.
I personally don't really consider myself to be necessarily
proud to be from Oklahoma. I don't really have much in common with the majority of the other several million people that live here–my politics, religion, and outlook on life are vastly different from your normal Oklahoman. But I have friends and a decent job here, so I'm disinclined to just pack up and move to Kansas or Missouri. (I do miss living in Springfield; it is a great town.) However, whenever I hear about positive developments in Oklahoma City (like the Devon Tower or a new MAPS project), I feel happy that the city is advancing and that I am around to see it. I suppose you could say that I do work to improve Oklahoma, if for no other reason than making Oklahoma better benefits me as much as it does everyone else here.
tl;dr: AMBIVALENCE
I'm proud to be a New Jerseyan. That doesn't mean that I pride myself on being from here. I pride myself on representing my state and countering the endless stereotypes that people are going to throw at me in response to this. (And I'm not going to waste time countering them here)
Quote from: Brandon on October 20, 2010, 10:12:46 PM
Does Texas border one of the Great Lakes? No? Then it can't be on the most awesome state list IMHO. :sombrero:
Gulf of Mexico >>>> Great Lakes
My family is from Texas, and I was born there. I proudly consider myself a Texan, even if I don't live there anymore.
I have complicated feelings about pride in geographical location. I am from Wichita, and I am proud of that, but I feel less confident saying I am proud to be from Kansas because I feel the rest of the state thinks Wichita and the surrounding area should break off and join some other state (maybe Oklahoma). Plus, my feeling of pride in any one location has been diluted after spending so much of my life elsewhere.
I have absolutely no pride in living in any of the geographical locations I've lived in. Location is just a convenience - a place to fall asleep at night, where your magazine subscriptions and your IRS audits go. There are so many places on this earth that are awesome that I happen to not be using as my mailing address.
of all the places I've lived, Boston is probably the most awesome, and the place that I spent the most living at. Am I proud to be from there? Hell no; my parents made the decision to move there on my behalf when I was 5.
if I were totally freed from economic responsibilities and could choose a place to live ... well, I'd probably find a mailing address and a place of incorporation that is most free of tax burdens, and then (hey, I'm free of economic responsibilities, I can afford this!) see the world, and hopefully wake up in a different location every morning. Then, and only then, I'd be proud of my locational choices: an absolute nomad. Having set myself free through my own hard work and economic good choices, I would be consciously devoid of origin and devoid of destination, and damn proud of that achievement.
bear in mind, "black pride" is one of the more contentious beliefs in our society today, and "white pride" one of its greatest taboos. neither has anything to do with any conscious choice the prideholder has made.
that should show you just how far "pride" goes in our lives, and how far it should go.
Quote from: realjd on October 21, 2010, 08:09:04 AM
Gulf of Mexico >>>> Great Lakes
Bah, the Gulf is just another chunk of ocean. Freshwater is where it's at! Plus, no hurricanes.
Unless one truly has a terrible experience or was perpetually nomadic, I bet most people would have a sense of pride about the city or region or state or country they grew up in. Thanks to the filter of time, we really remember only the coolest stuff from our youth. That's a big segment of our lives where all we know is that place and it's hard not to become defensive of the place that raised you.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 21, 2010, 01:51:13 PMit's hard not to become defensive of the place that raised you.
there's a difference between defending the locations that you remember fondly (as I would with Boston), and actually being proud that you, yourself, were blessed to inhabit such a delicious segment of the space-time continuum.
It's the difference between "this place is awesome" and "I am awesome". Not that I don't claim to be awesome, but I have evidence of my actual efforts to support my cause!
I'm not particularly proud of being a Dutchman. Sure, we're a well-known country for our size, but it does have it's own annoying things. This country is over-organized, for example. I guess I can feel just as much a European / world citizen as a Dutchman. Borders are only on maps (at least in much of Europe).
I hate my home state. Highest taxes in the nation, our government is completely corrupt, neither of the main gubernatorial candidates seem to have a solid plan to actually fix things, Albany is one giant money pit, and there's no growth here due in part to high taxes and corruption.
...but, yet, I'm still a proud New Yorker, and will do everything I can to make my home state great again.
I've become enough of a mutt that I can't really claim any state as home. Heck, legally I can't claim any state as home. I'm ineligible to pay resident tuition in ANY of the 50 states at this point (which is really, really annoying)- Idaho doesn't consider me to be an Idahoan and Wyoming doesn't consider me a Wyomingite. I take great pride in being a citizen of the United States of America (as much as I may or may not agree with policy decisions sometimes).
I suppose I'd call myself an Idahoan, but I've lived in five states in my 22 years and beyond my parents and going to Jr high and high school there, I have no roots in Idaho- I could make an equally convincing argument that I'm from Ohio (born there, family there, spent summers there, that state has been the one constant through my entire life- it's the only place I can still go and be in the same houses with the same people as I could when I was born), but that's not particularly strong either.
^^^
It looks like perspective and/or your experience in a place plays a definite role in what you call home.
It definitely does for me.
As many of my posts show, I still have a strong affinity for Pennsylvania, the state I was born and raised in, even though I haven't lived there since I was 18.
And, even though I've been in Tennessee 15 years, it holds less appeal than Ohio where I lived 10 years, Maryland where I spent 2, or even Wisconsin and Illinois that I've mainly spent time over the years visiting relatives.
Quote from: cu2010 on October 21, 2010, 03:45:44 PM
I hate my home state. Highest taxes in the nation, our government is completely corrupt, neither of the main gubernatorial candidates seem to have a solid plan to actually fix things, Albany is one giant money pit, and there's no growth here due in part to high taxes and corruption.
...but, yet, I'm still a proud New Yorker, and will do everything I can to make my home state great again.
Plus the rent is too damn high.
I've lived in various places around New York State throughout my roughly 30 years of life. I grew up on Long Island, and even though I lived there until I started college, I just say that I grew up on Long Island. Since then, I've lived in various places around Upstate New York and consider myself to be an Upstate New Yorker.
Quote from: Chris on October 21, 2010, 03:04:24 PMI guess I can feel just as much a European / world citizen as a Dutchman. Borders are only on maps (at least in much of Europe).
The Scottish and Welsh borders are strong in the UK, and the border between Britain and elsewhere in Europe is over 20 miles of saltwater, so we don't feel very European in the South of England - interestingly the further north you get, the more there is that feeling. There's quite a bit of county/regional pride in England - Yorkshire and Lancashire being the strongest county identities. There's less as you get closer to London, until you reckon yourself a Londoner. In summary - in the South, strong British identity, even if it's called 'England'. In London and the north, more strong regional/county identity (though in 'provincial' England a feeling of Englishness is throughout, even if there's a strong regional identity as well) and increased sense of Europeaness - peaking in Scotland, though Wales and Cornwall (less so Cornwall) have strong national identities.
Living in the south, I'd call myself English, and mean British for everything except most sport, and resentful of the 'Devolved issues, but Scottish/Welsh MPs can still vote, even though it won't take effect there, situation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question)'.
I'd imagine that Spain has some strongly defined internal borders, with looser feeling wrt the international ones. Likewise the north/south divide in Italy. And the biggest case of cultural/language divide in Europe must be Belgium, which is very divided as a country into Flanders and Wallonia - to the extent that national government is highly unstable and spends a lot of time not existing, but the international borders are as if they are not there at all, and they all feel very European, even if they don't feel Belgium.
So it will be interesting to see what happens with the 'Ever Closer Union' - while Brussels remains aloof and distant from the people there's not a huge amount of nationalism, but as soon as the centralisation becomes more obvious (most of the rational EU-skepticism in the UK is due to how much is done in Brussels, far away and with little accountability. There's also killing all our fish while crippling our fishing industry, the large amount of money we put into it even when factoring in what we get back and the bureaucracy.), then we'll perhaps see more national and regional identities getting stronger.
The USA is more homogeneous culturally (think homogenised milk, rather than mono-cultural) and linguistically than Europe is. Sure there's different cultures, but there's much less geographical linkage to that - there's exceptions, and there's tensions of course, but there is a lot more unifying force.
Quote from: english si on October 21, 2010, 07:32:58 PMthere's exceptions, and there's tensions of course, but there is a lot more unifying force.
yeah we haven't gotten all up in arms in nearly a century longer ago than you guys got all up in arms! :pan:
Having worked on Andrew Cuomo's gubernatorial campaign (NY) since June, I can attest that the A.G. has substantive policy ideas...how many candidates have produced 6 policy books, the main one of which is about 200 pages long (and I've read them--there is real policy in them).
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on October 21, 2010, 09:14:21 PMand I've read them--there is real policy in them
that's good - I hate when I sit down to read a book labeled "policy" and it turns out to include various artificial policy substitutes and Red Dye #6.
Yeah, well.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 21, 2010, 10:34:49 AM
bear in mind, "black pride" is one of the more contentious beliefs in our society today, and "white pride" one of its greatest taboos. neither has anything to do with any conscious choice the prideholder has made.
that should show you just how far "pride" goes in our lives, and how far it should go.
Considering that there was a conspicuous attempt in this country from colonial time through the middle of last century to suppress and even irradicate self worth amongst black folks, you might want to appreciate their attempts at breaking through the oligarchy of privilage.
Quote from: Adam Smith on October 21, 2010, 11:38:45 PM
Considering that there was a conspicuous attempt in this country from colonial time through the middle of last century to suppress and even irradicate self worth amongst black folks, you might want to appreciate their attempts at breaking through the oligarchy of privilage.
"through the middle of last century" may be shutting the door on it prematurely. But, again, that is not "pride". It is determination and courage and to be respected greatly - but to claim to be "proud" of something that one has had no influence upon is just abusing a perfectly good Mortal Sin.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 21, 2010, 11:48:25 PM
Quote from: Adam Smith on October 21, 2010, 11:38:45 PM
Considering that there was a conspicuous attempt in this country from colonial time through the middle of last century to suppress and even irradicate self worth amongst black folks, you might want to appreciate their attempts at breaking through the oligarchy of privilage.
"through the middle of last century" may be shutting the door on it prematurely. But, again, that is not "pride". It is determination and courage and to be respected greatly - but to claim to be "proud" of something that one has had no influence upon is just abusing a perfectly good Mortal Sin.
So you're not proud to be an earthling, then?
Is there really any alternative?
(also Merle Haggard wasn't really proud to be an Okie from Muskogee)
(he was born in Kern County, CA)
Quote from: Adam Smith on October 21, 2010, 11:58:26 PM
So you're not proud to be an earthling, then?
why should I be?
had I chosen to be an earthling, I may have a different take on the matter.
I've always been proud to be from Nebraska-or if one doesn't think being "proud" of that is appropriate, I like Nebraska and I like living in Nebraska. I've never understood why some people don't like where they're from. It's understandable if you moved around while you were growing up to like one place over the other, but sometimes I hear people who lived in the same city while they were growing up say that they don't like living there and wish they lived somewhere else. It just seems to me if you've never known any different, you might as well embrace where you're from and enjoy it.
Sometimes it's an exploration thing, particularly if you've lived in a small town your whole life. In a small town you keep running into the same people and life can become sort of monotonous. A lot of those folks say "I hate my hometown," go live somewhere else for a while, and then come back once they start to miss it.
^^^
And, I found that monotony or at least routine to be more appealing as I get older.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 21, 2010, 01:51:13 PM
Bah, the Gulf is just another chunk of ocean. Freshwater is where it's at! Plus, no hurricanes.
The Gulf may be just another chunk of ocean, but it's a nice, warm, swimmable ocean! Lake Erie is the only Great Lake that gets even remotely warm enough to go swimming in, and even then its still damn cold. For this same reason Atlantic >>> Pacific, Hawaii excepting of course.
I grew up in California and Washington, so I'm a bit spoiled. I prefer mild dry climates. (And yes, when it's sunny in Washington, it's usually dry, not humid). Texas seems like a desert wasteland transitioning to a humid sticky swamp. I don't think I would enjoy the climate down there, to be honest.
I don't really know about the people. I'm fairly moderate (libertarian), considering having lived in liberal areas, but I'm not sure how I'd be in a conservative area. From what I've heard, Texans are fairly nice.
Quote from: corco on October 22, 2010, 10:40:23 AM
Sometimes it's an exploration thing, particularly if you've lived in a small town your whole life. In a small town you keep running into the same people and life can become sort of monotonous. A lot of those folks say "I hate my hometown," go live somewhere else for a while, and then come back once they start to miss it.
Part of that depends on how pleasant the people there are. Most of the ones in my hometown were not, so I didn't relish running into them daily and do not intend on reliving the experience.
(also having the option of pizza delivery is pretty grand)
While I was born in Corpus Christi, I have lived and been all over South Texas, traveled practically every highway down here and so I like to call the whole South Texas region my home, not just one city or town.
I'll tell you one particular reason I am attached to South Texas so much: Our climate.
Our typical winter afternoon ranges anywhere from 66 to 84 degrees, and our summer afternoons range from 95 to 105 degrees. I don't see any place else in North America with a more desirable climate or weather pattern.
Also, I've never seen or encountered snow in person, and I sure hope it stays that way. I don't think I'd ever want to have to deal with snow or any kind of frozen precipitation. It's too cold, it's a hazard, you can't drive on it, it gets in the way, and you have to keep shoveling it out all the time. That doesn't sound like fun to me.
Never? Not even while visiting someone?
Snow is all right once a year or so. More than that and it gets annoying. (It's kind of fun having that one snow day per year where you can call into work and just relax...)
^ I never wanted to leave Texas during the winter months just because I hate dealing with the cold.
That's definitely a geographical thing.
As a counter, I've lived in snow most of my life, with my high school years in a place that got feet of snow every year. I hate not being around snow- and when you live in it you learn to deal with it and it becomes a non-impediment- you learn that things like bad roads don't stop you from getting anywhere, just make sure you have good tires, front or four wheel drive, know what you're doing, and steer clear of the tourists.
You even learn to enjoy shoveling snow! There are few things more relaxing to me than shoveling a driveway or a roof- much the same way somebody down south might feel about mowing their lawn (and much like with lawns, some people go all out and get really, really into snow removal- either getting a giant snowblower or a beater truck with a plow for their fifty foot long driveway).
That said, I can't stand the hot. If it's more than a dry 75 or so I can't stand it. From a driving perspective I think of overheating and blowouts when I think of driving down south (I've had both happen to me in southern Arizona)- which I guess much like with snow is just a deal where you have a decent car and good tires (although apparently different tires- when I borrowed my sister's car in June while it was briefly in Arizona with her trusty well-treaded studless winter tires that I know are incredible in snow they blew- I guess those aren't designed to handle the extreme heat at freeway speeds). From a comfort perspective, I absolutely hate the feeling of air conditioning and don't like the associated costs, and I've always thought "If you're too cold can always put more clothes on but if you're too hot you can't take all your clothes off." I could never live in South Texas.
Judging from your comments, I don't you'd be comfortable even visiting South Texas any time of the year; 75 degrees (with occasional 80s) is very typical for January down here.....forget about July. lol
Having said that, I can't even handle Dallas in the winter (way too cold up there), much less Wyoming or the Midwest or the Northeast.
On the flip side, I might begin to complain a little if it approaches 105 degrees (plus humidity), especially when I'm fully covered from head to toe. And this isn't dry heat (like it is Las Vegas and Phoenix), this is tropical heat with loads of humidity and drenching moisture).
I can generally handle heat well (not with 99% humidity), but what is there to do in Texas? In California-Washington, you're close to the ocean, mountains, rivers, gorges, canyons, etc. There's way more interesting topography in the far west. I don't know of any other place in the country where you can be an hour away from the beach and an hour away from a ski resort.
Because it's not like Texas borders an ocean or has rivers or mountains.
Touche. But to prove my point, here's some comparisons:
Carmel-by-the-sea, CA:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beachweddingsinmonterey.com%2Fimages%2FLocations%2FLarge%2520Pix%2FLargeCarmelBeach_01.jpg&hash=5d6c49c2f956236c36a97819465bee2c2d53adc9)
Galveston Beach, TX:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.besthoneymoonideas.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F12%2FGalveston_Beach.jpg&hash=fbbf85018e2c314dab39e1584378e9b5ca8446c6)
Sierra Nevada, CA:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ok4me2.net%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FSierraNevada.jpg&hash=00b4ea8d3df935816ded248d91faf1a57e5032b3)
Big Bend NP, TX:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F7%2F70%2FEmory_Peak_Summit.jpg&hash=ffefa77b9b6d7c18aaaa0c07a973ebb5dc906c32)
Sacramento River, CA (in Siskyous)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.siskiyous.edu%2Forganizations%2Ficc%2Fimages%2Ffall02%2FShunMossbraeFalls%2F2002sept15MossbraeFallsSacramentoRiver2.jpg&hash=d16810c99a10f0620b9eb40ed1eb146d159cd6a7)
Rio Grande, TX (Santa Elena Canyon)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fd%2Fd3%2FUSA_Santa_Elena_Canyon_TX.jpg%2F800px-USA_Santa_Elena_Canyon_TX.jpg&hash=e7fae366fc713f227ae516b87aaa8578d237fbc1)
Most of Texas' scenery is in the West, and it's pretty much limited to desert. California alone has more variety, as it has deserts, Mediterranean, high-forest and marine west-coast climates.
I'm not really seeing your point? I see a hell of a lot of variety in both states...
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 23, 2010, 07:37:49 AM
I'm not really seeing your point? I see a hell of a lot of variety in both states...
I've heard that Oklahoma has the most diverse terrain in the country. I think I saw it on a tourism commercial. It may or may not be true, but Oklahoma does indeed have a lot of varied terrain.
Texas looks really, really cool based on those pictures.
You're amping up the northwest because of the rain shadow effect, which does make for a neat situation where you've got a really green, wet area on one side of the mountains and then desert on the other which is kind of a cool diversity and is special, but that by no means makes it the only unique part of the country.
If you want to say "I like the northwest better than Texas" that's one thing, but to say "The northwest is better than Texas" is an entirely different thing. As somebody who has spent a lot of time in the northwest, I actually really liked Texas when I drove through a few months ago. Sure,the scenery isn't as stunning, but it is there.
It's the difference between a Baroque styled building and a Renaissance building- you see a Baroque building and you know immediately know you're supposed to think it's beautiful and the beauty is thrown in your face. In a Renaissance building, it takes a moment to ponder the beauty, and once you do you generally always find beauty in it. Most architects would argue there is great merits to both schools of thought, and I'd argue the same when it comes to evaluating scenery.
I was in the Flint Hills of Kansas a couple weeks ago, something I suspect you would find to be ugly, but I really liked it, especially at this time of year. Sure, there weren't giant mountains to tell you " LOOK AT ME I'M BEAUTIFUL," but the leaves were changed in colors you just don't find in the northwest and the rolling hills are a terrain type you just don't find in the northwest (to a small extent in certain areas, but nothing like eastern Kansas/western Missouri). Even compared to the western northwest, the forests have an undergrowth you just don't find that's really neat as well.
I like the eastern Great Plains and a lot of what I had the opportunity to see in Oklahoma and Texas if only because the beauty is more reflective and contemplative instead of the northwest's HEY! HEY! LOOK! I'M A BIG MOUNTAIN! I'M BEAUTIFUL! Personally, I appreciate the northwest for what it is- the hour between an ocean and a ski resort thing is definitely true and very cool, but to say that Texas/other "boring" states don't have anything to appreciate as much as the northwest is just wrong.
Quote from: bugo on October 23, 2010, 12:09:22 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 23, 2010, 07:37:49 AM
I'm not really seeing your point? I see a hell of a lot of variety in both states...
I've heard that Oklahoma has the most diverse terrain in the country. I think I saw it on a tourism commercial. It may or may not be true, but Oklahoma does indeed have a lot of varied terrain.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Falfalfa%252Fimg_1859.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=1431cd410a2da2963ec53c5bac0b0e86589485bd)
Alfalfa County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fblaine%252F008ok_mesa.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=0644587b8fb017b743ee6d87afad0b0cbbe1d49d)
Blaine County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fcaddo%252Fimg_2392.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=8cb246c3d56fdb42ab92f6df352f3602b0dc286d)
Caddo County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Droadtrips%252Fpan%252F0060.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=9e4bb3f0a08462d258c74923fc27a0208081c4d9)
Cimarron County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fle_flore%252F00_178.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=974beb37a8300d667ed7afd5c1c3f05b33d5cee1)
Le Flore County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fmurray%252Fimg_1238.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=fd5af559dadf66c478b0389f5a4476c6083b5e3f)
Murray County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Foklahoma%252Fimg_1831.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=be8f92d4a8906ef0ea105ac054e37613d6b3071b)
Oklahoma County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fottawa%252Fimg_0673.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=496b67deca0c8ca573d454bfed1927abf038faad)
Ottawa County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fpayne%252Fimg_2019.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=5a3884b7ca88b77883c94a0a0c3fc9f2731eba33)
Payne County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fpayne%252Fimg_2685.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=250d541d12002bc5068a92b993e208d966724bfd)
...still Payne County (that's a hell of a lot of variation in one county)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fseminole%252F056ok_wide.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=8cc6dbeb61294aa6fc8d5db72e382964e4581d85)
Seminole County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Ftillman%252Fimg_1943.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=41d28b5084d0f7feda4a8d248e476fda66d40d19)
Tillman County
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Froadgeek%2Froad-photos%2Fmain.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26amp%3Bvar1%3Dok%252Fwashington%252Fimg_1139.jpg%26amp%3Bvar2%3D700_85&hash=27a4d1268c84453a8d58aae3ee691413ae0a3a75)
Washington County
I suppose you could call Oklahoma diverse.
Quote from: corco on October 23, 2010, 01:35:50 PM
I was in the Flint Hills of Kansas a couple weeks ago, something I suspect you would find to be ugly, but I really liked it, especially at this time of year. Sure, there weren't giant mountains to tell you " LOOK AT ME I'M BEAUTIFUL," but the leaves were changed in colors you just don't find in the northwest and the rolling hills are a terrain type you just don't find in the northwest (to a small extent in certain areas, but nothing like eastern Kansas/western Missouri). Even compared to the western northwest, the forests have an undergrowth you just don't find that's really neat as well.
The Flint Hills are beautiful. I liken them to a blanket that has been tossed on the ground. I drove through on I-35 and I was very impressed.
As far as really diverse states go, I'd advance Wyoming as another candidate- at least on par with a state like Washington or other west coast states KEK so dearly loves. Washington basically has give different sorts of ecosystems- there's the forested western Washington, the Cascade Curtain mountain/forest/desert area, the desert southeast Washington, the Palouse in extreme eastern Washington, and the differently forested northeastern Washington. Wyoming has all sorts of stuff- the Black Hills invade the northeast corner of the state,
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F85%2F16to585%2F4.jpg&hash=703cf16f1ddb64eb275a8a7e741324f3e2b752da)
(US-85 in Weston Cty)
the southeast part is very much like panhandle Nebraska- there's not much in the way of Sandhills but there's usable farmland.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F213%2F80to216%2F4.jpg&hash=b77a242f28c13baa400713161e62d2f9c997debd)
(WYO 213 in Laramie Cty)
The south central part of the state is godawful desert,
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F789%2F80to80%2F2.jpg&hash=1b0cb76482c81fe043a39ded92ba3c832d74f98e)
(I-80 in Carbon Cty)
with the Snowys (the extension of the Front Range from Colorado) going from Laramie up to Casper and providing some well-treed mountains
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F130%2F11to230%2F2.jpg&hash=b60d25284c4a4a7e31b87d76a2d3eac28a6eb995)
(WYO 130 in Albany Cty)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F251%2F252toend%2F2.jpg&hash=4ccef649b5102fd14cb615d5d76efe5b180b3882)
(WYO 251 in Natrona Cty)
then the Uintas and Flaming Gorge area in the southwest part of the state,
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F150%2Futto80%2F7.jpg&hash=eb23579325b1f960589987b3cc1752ba16a8b26f)
(WYO 150 in Uinta Cty)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F430%2F376toco%2F5.jpg&hash=07f73f3d5e08ebb494350f3fa6044e34da06a335)
(WYO 430 in Sweetwater Cty)
then Yellowstone and the Tetons in the northwest,
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F89%2F26to189%2F1.JPG&hash=dcc8e8201882666a370450a9b30a5f9ff793247c)
(US-26 in Teton Cty)
with the Winds and Big Horns providing sort of a buffer zone for all of that in the middle of the state.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F287%2F789to28%2F6.jpg&hash=2d83873d429d8f4420d7269973b9431ab44df66a)
(US-287 in Fremont Cty)
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(US-14 in Sheridan Cty)
Going back to the origin of this thread, I live in the Philadelphia area, have been all my 15 years of life. To be honest, I don't mind being a Pennsylvanian, but I really hate living here. Even if I go on a 20 minute car trip down to Delaware, I am still miserable coming back. This is mostly so because I had a miserable childhood here. I'd much rather be living up in the northeast, like New Hampshire, Maine, or upstate New York, where I actually enjoy going to, and never would want to leave.
Plus, Flyers and Phillies fans are really annoying :pan:
Being born on the Gulf Coast of Florida gives me confidence. Tampa is my home city and I'm proud of it :)
KEK, you didn't really prove any point in those pictures....
Texas has beach, forest, desert, plains, mountains, and hilly areas.. So you don't have much to dog us about..
How often do you see this in the NW:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FS8utnyjbEBI%2FAAAAAAAAEqg%2F52H8zdKrA_o%2Fs800%2FSANY0406.JPG&hash=033dba5177b1a3abf50551f25cc0d1a59935123c)
And you have to GO to Big Bend to appreciate it..
Cattail Falls, Big Bend Nat'l Park:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FSsvTtC40ISI%2FAAAAAAAACik%2F0SgZJ4Q3WHc%2Fs400%2F100_1612.JPG&hash=cb4fc8867d34c51855db06d259a57b9f2fb2736f)
Grapevine Hills (that's me in the red) :
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FSsvUcWO22eI%2FAAAAAAAACk8%2FC5upXOqllPA%2Fs400%2F100_1694.JPG&hash=6dab8b418a5ca5a0d39f9d2f35772660c68fb09a)
Santa Elena Canyon:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FSsvVpR8m2yI%2FAAAAAAAACnY%2FnUjG3EEtuSI%2Fs400%2F100_1738.JPG&hash=3126e8a6a3f23918036012e260f261c03baa4302)
Rio Grande, look at those cliffs in the back:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FSsvWilAFKZI%2FAAAAAAAACpg%2Fv2qC9FaPR3o%2Fs400%2F100_1771.JPG&hash=b6e1a18251df48f20526726a6e60f576f821114d)
The window:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FSsvWyzBkjuI%2FAAAAAAAACqM%2FTSqP-9wgVeY%2Fs400%2F100_1781.JPG&hash=844485f0cf7d044b76f2832a9e49eb0c8e20c199)
Me at 7000+ feet:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FSsvX9Z0znvI%2FAAAAAAAACs0%2FzfK22-HUr_Q%2Fs400%2F100_1821.JPG&hash=7284c159883afaa970b6025d5d9eee51d393d1b0)
Emory Peak:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FSsvXQPl9gXI%2FAAAAAAAACrI%2FR5UedUDAbIY%2Fs400%2F100_1795.JPG&hash=b48a910564eaaf1700539318d73ed509f0f5b708)
BigMatt
Eastern Washington and Oregon are actually fairly arid and have deep canyons (not as deep as Big Bend). Also, I was citing California, which isn't part of the NW, and there are plenty of arid wonders in the East Sierra Nevadas.
We're both extremely biased here, so this won't really go anywhere. :P
^ I agree. I want to go to the West coast...
BigMatt
Quote from: jgb191 on October 23, 2010, 12:43:30 AM
^ I never wanted to leave Texas during the winter months just because I hate dealing with the cold.
How far south in Texas do you have to go before there is no snow...ever? Last two years we've seen snow in Baton Rouge and New Orleans.
I'd say South of San Antonio would make snow less "common", I say common cause it snowed here (Angelo) TWICE this winter, and we also had 107 degree weather this summer.... But I don't really know the South Texas climate that well..
BigMatt
Quote from: Adam Smith on October 24, 2010, 04:19:41 PM
Quote from: jgb191 on October 23, 2010, 12:43:30 AM
^ I never wanted to leave Texas during the winter months just because I hate dealing with the cold.
How far south in Texas do you have to go before there is no snow...ever? Last two years we've seen snow in Baton Rouge and New Orleans.
Not that it's never snowed down here, I've just never seen it in person. Before the freak Christmas 2004 snowfall (which I missed), the last time Corpus Christi got any snow was 1941, which was a 63-year time difference, and before that was 1895 (a 46-year gap). I think throughout the city's history to date, you can count the total number of snow days in one hand.
Also in in that same cyclone in 2004, Brownsville received their first snowfall (1.5 inches) ever recorded in history, and Laredo got their first snow (2 inches) in 106 years and overall second time ever, 1898 was the last time before that.
You get the idea. I probably will not have to worry about snow ever again in my lifetime, which is why I'm glad I am from and still live in this part of the nation. So I guess that means (for the sake of this thread) I have geographic pride in my region!
You want to know another thing I'm particularly proud of.....in my lifetime, we are the only state in the union to
have recorded excess of 100 degrees in all twelve calendar months (January, December, and all months in between). We're probably even the only state in the nation to have recorded 90s in every calendar month. I could be wrong, but Texas may also be the only state to have recorded 110 days in the months of March and April, although maybe the same might have happened in Death Valley, CA.
I love the snow just as much as I love the winter, and the cold weather. I just don't get how people in the south deal with hot weather most of the year. I love the 4 seasons we get.
^ Just like we don't get how any of you up north can deal with the below-freezing cold for almost half-the year. It works both ways.
And I'm not saying I don't like the heat either. I just prefer to the cold, mostly because I'm used to it.
Oh yeah, I totally understand. Just meaning to stress that your definition on winter greatly differs from ours. But that's what makes this nation so great is that there are so many climate variations -- a little bit of everything.
Some parts are generally warm practically year-round, some are cool/cold year-round, and most places seeing both hot and cold every year.
Quote from: jgb191 on October 24, 2010, 09:29:54 PM
and most places seeing both hot and cold every year.
... which is what I like. A bit of everything. I especially enjoy the fall, when it is starting to get cold and the foliage pops up!
Texas (and Oklahoma to an extent) is one of the most diverse regions of the world in terms of climate. Its where the eastern hardwood forests end and the Great Plains begin. Most every eastern plant species reaches its western extent in Texas, particularly in the Cross Timbers (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_Timbers"). You also have a transition to the drier desert climates to the west. Just look at where I-10 enters/exits Texas. The western crossing from NM is desert, the eastern crossing from LA is swampy and pine forest.
NJ for a small state packs a lot of diversity. You have the coast and the mountains. In terms of development you have a mix of suburban, urban, and rural. The state lies in two climate zones (humid subtropical and humid continental) and the Pine Barrens are another one of those transition zones for plants. Most southern plants reach their northern extent in NJ and most northern plants meet their southern extent.
As for weather, its not quite as cold and snowy as New England. This year was abnormal for weather, a cold snowy winter like New England, and a hot and humid summer like the Carolinas! Keep in mind, I have experienced cold weather in Florida, its by no means hot there during the winter outside of the south-eastern coast.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 24, 2010, 09:08:51 PM
And I'm not saying I don't like the heat either. I just prefer to the cold, mostly because I'm used to it.
Ha! Heat, what like 90 degrees?!
And Texas has the most awesome terrain in the U.S. Guadalupe Peak is taller than any mountain peak East of the Mississippi!
BigMatt
Quote from: BigMatt on October 24, 2010, 10:24:18 PM
Ha! Heat, what like 90 degrees?!
Anything above 50=no jacket for me :)
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 24, 2010, 10:29:32 PM
Quote from: BigMatt on October 24, 2010, 10:24:18 PM
Ha! Heat, what like 90 degrees?!
Anything above 50=no jacket for me :)
Oh my gosh, everyone down here freaks out and grabs their parka in 50s! I think 70 and up is awesome, 90s is great, 100s is warm, 108+ is hot.
BigMatt
I need a jacket at 70 degrees.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on October 24, 2010, 10:07:18 PM
Texas (and Oklahoma to an extent) is one of the most diverse regions of the world in terms of climate.
I've heard that Oklahoma has the most diverse terrain in the country.
As for the hot/cold debate, I'd rather be in cold weather than hot weather. Not -65 degree cold, but normal winter temperatures from 20 degrees up. It's easier to stay warm than it is to stay cool.
Everything depends on humidity. I can tolerate 100 degrees easily in California, since everything is dry, but with humidity I can barely stand 80... I did grow up in the West Coast, so there is an issue there. The thing is, to get comfortable, you can't exactly remove layers... Yes, you can see hot bikini chicks in warmer areas much more often, but you also sweat a lot more. Up north, you can wear bundled clothing. Exposed areas can be quite nippy, though.
I can deal with very low and very high temperatures, but as I have gotten older, I have found I have difficulty tolerating temperatures over about 90° F. without air-conditioning, and I really can't do without a jacket and gloves when the temperature goes below 55° F. In fact, the latter is my main objection to the climate in Britain. Britain has a maritime climate so temperatures are quite moderate compared to the US and continental Europe--but I can expect to wear gloves on some days any month of the year, I have to wear gloves most of the time for at least nine months of the year, and except in high summer there is no time that I cannot avoid carrying gloves in my coat pocket.
I also don't like places where a significant proportion of the annual rainfall falls cold. Britain meets this description, unlike parts of the inland US where winter precipitation tends to fall as snow and summer thunderstorms produce warm rain. Cold rain entails special measures to keep rainwater from soaking your clothing since if that happens, the water will be very slow to evaporate and you will catch a chill. In the US you can generally do without rain trousers unless you are a serious biker; in Britain rain trousers are a necessity. In the US cotton (which does not hold heat in if it gets wet) is regarded as a year-round fabric, whereas in Britain many people modify their wardrobes by wearing woollens or synthetics (which will hold heat in even when they are wet) for many months of the year.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on October 23, 2010, 04:24:21 AM
I can generally handle heat well (not with 99% humidity), but what is there to do in Texas? In California-Washington, you're close to the ocean, mountains, rivers, gorges, canyons, etc. There's way more interesting topography in the far west. I don't know of any other place in the country where you can be an hour away from the beach and an hour away from a ski resort.
New Jersey might come close. You have the Pocono mountains just inside PA and beaches to the east.
The Dutch climate isn't too interesting, humid, not really hot and never really cold. Anything below 15 F or above 90 F is not an everyday occurrence in the respective seasons. That said, 90 F and humidity are not my favorites. Dutch homes are not airconditioned - it isn't even standard in passenger cars.
I can't imagine what it's like in places like Phoenix where the desert starts at your front door if you don't excessively water your lawn.
Quote from: Chris on October 25, 2010, 11:37:32 AMI can't imagine what it's like in places like Phoenix where the desert starts at your front door if you don't excessively water your lawn.
It doesn't work that way. For starters, it is very rare for private homes in Phoenix and Tucson to have grass lawns. Most houses instead have xeriscaping, which generally consists of typical desert vegetation like paloverde, various types of cacti, etc. growing out of simulated desert pavement. There are some places in Arizona where it is possible to have a lawn, and many people in those places do, but those are generally at higher altitudes, which in Arizona tend to have moist microclimates and supported grasslands or even pine forests long before the arrival of European settlers.
Right. I guess you have to have a McMansion in order to have a green lawn in Phoenix.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg135.imageshack.us%2Fimg135%2F8035%2Fphoenix1x.jpg&hash=10ccbfd422ff8ab2bd7f973555a6eea93e30b935)
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Quote from: mightyace on October 25, 2010, 10:38:26 AM
New Jersey might come close. You have the Pocono mountains just inside PA and beaches to the east.
If the Xanadu indoor ski slope opens in the Meadowlands, you certainly will be able to ski... even in the summer. NJ has in-state skiing in the winter as well in Vernon and Mahwah.
^^^
Thanks for the info. I shouldn't be surprised that there are ski areas in New Jersey. I just didn't know about any.
Born and raised in Minnesota, and I don't plan on leaving ever.
Regarding heat versus cold; you can always put on more clothing to get warm in the cold, but there's only so much you can take off in the heat without getting arrested. And even then.
To live in a place that doesn't really have four seasons would be too boring. If it's gonna get cold, I want heaps of snow to play in. So even the middle latitudes of the lower 48 would be unappealing. 3 or 4 months of November? No thanks.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 27, 2010, 09:35:15 AM
Regarding heat versus cold; you can always put on more clothing to get warm in the cold, but there's only so much you can take off in the heat without getting arrested.
Simple Solution: Don't take anything off. If any of you ever visit the tropical climate of South Texas, the rule of thumb is keep yourself fully covered at all times while outdoors, no matter how hot it is.
Exposing any part of your skin makes you a prime target for mosquitoes, killer bees, ants, and other biting insects that thrive here, and you seriously don't want that.
Quote from: jgb191 on October 31, 2010, 01:52:31 PM
Exposing any part of your skin makes you a prime target for mosquitoes, killer bees, ants, and other biting insects that thrive here, and you seriously don't want that.
I'm used to the mosquitoes and the ants. But there's rattlesnakes all over Texas. And other biting species.. So yeah, I've worn jeans in 100+ degree weather...
BigMatt
show me a rattlesnake that can't - or won't - strike through a pair of jeans, and I'll show you an evolutionary dead end...
So in that case, wear double or triple layer of jeans in Texas! lol