I noticed that another overhead sign bridge down again. The cause? You guessed it. A truck driver was driving a truck and just happened to strike it.
This is getting old. If its not an overhead assembly its an overpass. How can you not drive a vehicle that's larger than the norm and not know that you can't drive it im some places.
It's not a matter of stupidity as much of lack of common sense, plus not focusing in general. It seems people have short attention spans these days. Such attention issues would make tge average person miss out in life over thirty years ago. When I was younger and I lost attention, I was quickly made aware that my situation was dangerous and needed attention. Now what I was told to correct then is the norm by most people now.
My theory: truck driving jobs have grown so bad that various trucking companies have run-off all their better qualified drivers. They have been employing illegal migrants as drivers. With the crackdown on immigration the trucking companies are having to hire whatever suckers they can manage to get behind the wheel.
The only good arrangement with truck driving is to be an owner-operator. But even that situation is really difficult (especially lately with the soaring prices of diesel fuel).
Lack of access to Buc-ee's wears on a person.
Also, what does the second "W" in "WWTF" mean?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2026, 04:56:51 PMLack of access to Buc-ee's wears on a person.
Also, what does the second "W" in "WWTF" mean?
World Wide Transportation Forum
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2026, 04:56:51 PMLack of access to Buc-ee's wears on a person.
Also, what does the second "W" in "WWTF" mean?
What Would Truckers Fuck?
Quote from: Big John on April 09, 2026, 05:00:49 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2026, 04:56:51 PMLack of access to Buc-ee's wears on a person.
Also, what does the second "W" in "WWTF" mean?
What Would Truckers Fuck?
I was going to go with World Wide Trucker Federation. But hey, if big rigs over the road is some sort of weird kink who I am to judge?
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 09, 2026, 04:50:26 PMMy theory: truck driving jobs have grown so bad that various trucking companies have run-off all their better qualified drivers. They have been employing illegal migrants as drivers. With the crackdown on immigration the trucking companies are having to hire whatever suckers they can manage to get behind the wheel.
Undoubtedly this is at least a factor. With all the high-profile accidents involving migrant truckers who are not aware of the laws of the road in the USA, I would expect that a lot of these sign strikes are as a result of either their bad driving or unqualified bad replacements for those migrant drivers.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 09, 2026, 04:50:26 PMMy theory: truck driving jobs have grown so bad that various trucking companies have run-off all their better qualified drivers. They have been employing illegal migrants as drivers. With the crackdown on immigration the trucking companies are having to hire whatever suckers they can manage to get behind the wheel.
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 09, 2026, 05:35:23 PMUndoubtedly this is at least a factor. With all the high-profile accidents involving migrant truckers who are not aware of the laws of the road in the USA, I would expect that a lot of these sign strikes are as a result of either their bad driving or unqualified bad replacements for those migrant drivers.
I read it differently. Immigrants driving trucks is nothing new. That's been a thing for decades. But most of those immigrant truckers were good drivers. If they're being run off the job, then the positions are being filled by non-immigrant but less-qualified drivers, and accidents are to be expected.
I think it's nothing more complex than you get what you pay for, and truckers are paid approximately nothing.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2026, 06:38:24 PMI think it's nothing more complex than you get what you pay for, and truckers are paid approximately nothing.
They make more than I do, and I've never run into a bridge.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2026, 04:56:51 PMAlso, what does the second "W" in "WWTF" mean?
What Would Trevor Find is going on with Truck Drivers
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 05:40:04 PMQuote from: Bobby5280 on April 09, 2026, 04:50:26 PMMy theory: truck driving jobs have grown so bad that various trucking companies have run-off all their better qualified drivers. They have been employing illegal migrants as drivers. With the crackdown on immigration the trucking companies are having to hire whatever suckers they can manage to get behind the wheel.
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 09, 2026, 05:35:23 PMUndoubtedly this is at least a factor. With all the high-profile accidents involving migrant truckers who are not aware of the laws of the road in the USA, I would expect that a lot of these sign strikes are as a result of either their bad driving or unqualified bad replacements for those migrant drivers.
I read it differently. Immigrants driving trucks is nothing new. That's been a thing for decades. But most of those immigrant truckers were good drivers. If they're being run off the job, then the positions are being filled by non-immigrant but less-qualified drivers, and accidents are to be expected.
I wonder how long would it take for someone driving around the country to pick up at least some basic English and non-metric units?
Because, you know, English proficiency is one of sour points about foreign drivers.
Bridge hits due to (obviously) general purpose GPS vs truck specific ones are an easy one. But inability to interpret 10'6" is another interesting point. I didn't believe in idea when that was originally brought up, but thinking about it...
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 06:55:54 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2026, 06:38:24 PMI think it's nothing more complex than you get what you pay for, and truckers are paid approximately nothing.
They make more than I do, and I've never run into a bridge.
Are you sure? They might make more in total, but if you divide it out to an hourly rate...
Quote from: Big John on April 09, 2026, 05:00:49 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2026, 04:56:51 PMLack of access to Buc-ee's wears on a person.
Also, what does the second "W" in "WWTF" mean?
What Would Truckers Fuck?
A giant anthropomorphic beaver mascot.
Quote from: NE2 on April 09, 2026, 07:49:34 PMQuote from: Big John on April 09, 2026, 05:00:49 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2026, 04:56:51 PMLack of access to Buc-ee's wears on a person.
Also, what does the second "W" in "WWTF" mean?
What Would Truckers Fuck?
A giant anthropomorphic beaver mascot.
So that's why Buc-ee's doesn't allow trucks.
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 06:55:54 PMThey make more than I do, and I've never run into a bridge.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2026, 07:39:34 PMAre you sure? They might make more in total, but if you divide it out to an hourly rate...
Most still do, yes. The industry I work in is underpaid, especially if you aren't management.
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 08:30:36 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 06:55:54 PMThey make more than I do, and I've never run into a bridge.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2026, 07:39:34 PMAre you sure? They might make more in total, but if you divide it out to an hourly rate...
Most still do, yes. The industry I work in is underpaid, especially if you aren't management.
Tbh that's why I think this is happening more... many trucking companies only pay by delivery (sometimes by the mile) and not by the hour, thus incentivizing the absolute fastest delivery possible. If that means cutting corners then so be it.
I highly doubt this has to do with immigration. Signs regarding u-turns and height are relatively the same across most countries, and anyone could pull a stupid move and blatantly disregard them. Just ask any college student :coffee: :rolleyes: :pan:
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on April 09, 2026, 08:45:52 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 08:30:36 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 06:55:54 PMThey make more than I do, and I've never run into a bridge.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2026, 07:39:34 PMAre you sure? They might make more in total, but if you divide it out to an hourly rate...
Most still do, yes. The industry I work in is underpaid, especially if you aren't management.
Tbh that's why I think this is happening more... many trucking companies only pay by delivery (sometimes by the mile) and not by the hour, thus incentivizing the absolute fastest delivery possible. If that means cutting corners then so be it.
I highly doubt this has to do with immigration. Signs regarding u-turns and height are relatively the same across most countries, and anyone could pull a stupid move and blatantly disregard them. Just ask any college student :coffee: :rolleyes: :pan:
What are your thoughts about this case from Florida last year where a trucker turned from the right lane across the left lane trying to make a U-turn?
https://www.reddit.com/r/lastimages/comments/1mrjgoe/last_image_before_all_3_occupants_of_this_car_got/
I don't think this sign could be any clearer about being "for official use only"...
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TyBTGji5WmMVdY5Z6
Would the driver knowing English (or not, perhaps) have changed his actions? I'm not sure, but it begs the question as to how lax our DL requirements are, especially for immigrants...
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2026, 04:56:51 PMLack of access to Buc-ee's wears on a person.
Also, what does the second "W" in "WWTF" mean?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaPiYBp2aKvhSNB36g9NfTtpvkbGozHpiCRwrvQp9vUpj5doMgSztU5pOz&s=10)
ESL drivers have been a big factor in the bridge hits in my neck of the woods...but so have EPL idiot drivers that have no business driving box trucks, let alone semis.
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 09, 2026, 08:59:27 PMQuote from: ElishaGOtis on April 09, 2026, 08:45:52 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 08:30:36 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 06:55:54 PMThey make more than I do, and I've never run into a bridge.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2026, 07:39:34 PMAre you sure? They might make more in total, but if you divide it out to an hourly rate...
Most still do, yes. The industry I work in is underpaid, especially if you aren't management.
Tbh that's why I think this is happening more... many trucking companies only pay by delivery (sometimes by the mile) and not by the hour, thus incentivizing the absolute fastest delivery possible. If that means cutting corners then so be it.
I highly doubt this has to do with immigration. Signs regarding u-turns and height are relatively the same across most countries, and anyone could pull a stupid move and blatantly disregard them. Just ask any college student :coffee: :rolleyes: :pan:
What are your thoughts about this case from Florida last year where a trucker turned from the right lane across the left lane trying to make a U-turn?
https://www.reddit.com/r/lastimages/comments/1mrjgoe/last_image_before_all_3_occupants_of_this_car_got/
I don't think this sign could be any clearer about being "for official use only"...
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TyBTGji5WmMVdY5Z6
Would the driver knowing English (or not, perhaps) have changed his actions? I'm not sure, but it begs the question as to how lax our DL requirements are, especially for immigrants...
Anyone who would think U-turning a semi-truck across the fast lane and the median of an Interstate is a good idea is an unmitigated moron in any language.
Good thing the Turnpike isn't an Interstate then. :bigass:
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2026, 10:36:19 PMAnyone who would think U-turning a semi-truck across the fast lane and the median of an Interstate is a good idea is an unmitigated moron in any language.
This.
In my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less. This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an
easier time navigating our highways, not a
harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.
It's why I was frustrated when the Teamsters kept fighting against the cross-border trucking pilot program, which allowed cross-border long-haul trucking operations between the USA and Mexico, due to supposed safety concerns. If you've ever seen what truck drivers have to deal with in Mexico, then driving in the USA should be a piece of cake for them, whether they're good at reading English or not.
My earlier comment about trucking companies hiring illegal migrant workers wasn't meant to deride migrants. The point is the trucking companies want to pay drivers as little as possible and treat them like shit. Only so many American-born workers are willing to put up with that, so the trucking companies wind up with a shortage of drivers. They fill the gap with whoever they can hire.
The trucking companies play all sorts of games with how they pay drivers. They also play games with the rules on how many hours a trucker can be behind the wheel. If a driver is stuck in Long Beach for hours on end before he can pick up a load the company will use that down time as a way to balance out making the trucker drive a marathon stretch. The trucker will be tired to the point of falling asleep behind the wheel. Yet he'll have some douchebag asshole at the home office prodding him to just drink more coffee and stay on the road. That's also how you get truckers running into highway signs.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 10, 2026, 09:39:44 AMMy earlier comment about trucking companies hiring illegal migrant workers wasn't meant to deride migrants. The point is the trucking companies want to pay drivers as little as possible and treat them like shit. Only so many American-born workers are willing to put up with that, so the trucking companies wind up with a shortage of drivers. They fill the gap with whoever they can hire.
The trucking companies play all sorts of games with how they pay drivers. They also play games with the rules on how many hours a trucker can be behind the wheel. If a driver is stuck in Long Beach for hours on end before he can pick up a load the company will use that down time as a way to balance out making the trucker drive a marathon stretch. The trucker will be tired to the point of falling asleep behind the wheel. Yet he'll have some douchebag asshole at the home office prodding him to just drink more coffee and stay on the road. That's also how you get truckers running into highway signs.
So... nothing much has changed, then?
Quote from: kphoger on April 10, 2026, 09:17:27 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2026, 10:36:19 PMAnyone who would think U-turning a semi-truck across the fast lane and the median of an Interstate is a good idea is an unmitigated moron in any language.
This.
In my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less. This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an easier time navigating our highways, not a harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.
It's why I was frustrated when the Teamsters kept fighting against the cross-border trucking pilot program, which allowed cross-border long-haul trucking operations between the USA and Mexico, due to supposed safety concerns. If you've ever seen what truck drivers have to deal with in Mexico, then driving in the USA should be a piece of cake for them, whether they're good at reading English or not.
A Mexican Autopista is way more difficult to traverse than an Interstate. The gradients are way higher, they generally narrower and have weird stuff going on like unexpected pedestrians (like food vendors).
Going back to the original question, we've had some bridge and sign hits in Virginia when dump truck drivers were cruising along with the bed raised. I can perhaps understand why they might have the bed raised while moving around a construction zone, but why is there any reason ever to drive that way on a highway that's open to the public?
Quote from: kphoger on April 10, 2026, 09:17:27 AMIn my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less. This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an easier time navigating our highways, not a harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.
You are used to the system. They would have hard time with the system in US until they adapt...
That is, if they really worked as a commercial driver before (which is far from given)
Quote from: kalvado on April 10, 2026, 11:26:12 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 10, 2026, 09:17:27 AMIn my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less. This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an easier time navigating our highways, not a harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.
You are used to the system. They would have hard time with the system in US until they adapt...
That is, if they really worked as a commercial driver before (which is far from given)
From my own experience I tend to see the amount of skill people assume American drivers as having (commercial or otherwise) to be highly exaggerated. In Mexico standardization really isn't a thing unless you are regularly on an Autopista or in a really big city. Most of the driving I do down in Mexico reminds me of single lane country back roads in the Sierra Nevada (especially in towns).
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 10, 2026, 11:31:28 AMQuote from: kalvado on April 10, 2026, 11:26:12 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 10, 2026, 09:17:27 AMIn my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less. This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an easier time navigating our highways, not a harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.
You are used to the system. They would have hard time with the system in US until they adapt...
That is, if they really worked as a commercial driver before (which is far from given)
From my own experience I tend to see the amount of skill people assume American drivers as having (commercial or otherwise) to be highly exaggerated. In Mexico standardization really isn't a thing unless you are regularly on an Autopista or in a really big city. Most of the driving I do down in Mexico reminds me of single lane country back roads in the Sierra Nevada (especially in towns).
I am thinking more about the logic of the road. Divided highway has a strict logic US drivers take for granted. Limited access, well defined access points, signage pattern - including MUTCD standard which is significantly different from Vienna convention. Signs you REALLY need to read. Imperial units on signs. Unspoken rules of the road, like how to treat merging traffic and what is the real speed allowance.
Even a great driver would need time to digest that.
Quote from: kalvado on April 10, 2026, 11:37:26 AMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 10, 2026, 11:31:28 AMQuote from: kalvado on April 10, 2026, 11:26:12 AMQuote from: kphoger on April 10, 2026, 09:17:27 AMIn my experience, driving in other countries is more of a challenge than here, not less. This means that, if someone can successfully drive a truck in another country, then, when they immigrate here to the USA, then he should have an easier time navigating our highways, not a harder time—notwithstanding the language barrier.
You are used to the system. They would have hard time with the system in US until they adapt...
That is, if they really worked as a commercial driver before (which is far from given)
From my own experience I tend to see the amount of skill people assume American drivers as having (commercial or otherwise) to be highly exaggerated. In Mexico standardization really isn't a thing unless you are regularly on an Autopista or in a really big city. Most of the driving I do down in Mexico reminds me of single lane country back roads in the Sierra Nevada (especially in towns).
I am thinking more about the logic of the road. Divided highway has a strict logic US drivers take for granted. Limited access, well defined access points, signage pattern - including MUTCD standard which is significantly different from Vienna convention. Signs you REALLY need to read. Imperial units on signs. Unspoken rules of the road, like how to treat merging traffic and what is the real speed allowance.
Even a great driver would need time to digest that.
Something I've never understood is why Mexico is on Vienna Convention signage. It often is incredibly abrupt or at least way more so than MUTCD signage. Strictly following numbered highways in Mexico is far from intuitive given continuity is poorly conveyed. Me personally I find it easier to just follow gantry control city signage.
Quote from: kphogerSo... nothing much has changed, then?
Nothing except for the steady decline in the quality of truck drivers being hired.
The most recent example I saw was from suburban St. Louis in Illinois (interchange of I-64 and I-255). I only saw the knocked-down sign; I didn't see the truck that caused it.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 10, 2026, 10:09:33 AMGoing back to the original question, we've had some bridge and sign hits in Virginia when dump truck drivers were cruising along with the bed raised. I can perhaps understand why they might have the bed raised while moving around a construction zone, but why is there any reason ever to drive that way on a highway that's open to the public?
This is what I wonder every time.
These damn crackers getting behind the wheel of an 80,000 pound vehicle without a care in the world. We need to test their ability to read! (https://www.theameryfreepress.com/news/truck-driver-pleads-guilty-in-bursik-case/article_d8a1bc9c-6144-11e9-846e-077bcd13f1c7.html#:~:text=Robert%20Bursik,trailer%20was%20in%20working%20order.)
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 10, 2026, 08:59:18 PMThese damn crackers getting behind the wheel of an 80,000 pound vehicle without a care in the world. We need to test their ability to read! (https://www.theameryfreepress.com/news/truck-driver-pleads-guilty-in-bursik-case/article_d8a1bc9c-6144-11e9-846e-077bcd13f1c7.html#:~:text=Robert%20Bursik,trailer%20was%20in%20working%20order.)
Clear proof that CDL holders should be illiterate so not to get distracted by text on the screen!
Underqualified truckers are a huge issue in Canada too but it's not about signage, it's again that companies will hire anyone with a pulse because no one wants to drive trucks anymore.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 10, 2026, 10:02:38 PMUnderqualified truckers are a huge issue in Canada too but it's not about signage, it's again that companies will hire anyone with a pulse because no one wants to drive trucks anymore.
One thing that seems to kill trucking as a career is an ongoing promise that computer is going to replace human drivers in a near future.
Quote from: kalvado on April 10, 2026, 10:09:55 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 10, 2026, 10:02:38 PMUnderqualified truckers are a huge issue in Canada too but it's not about signage, it's again that companies will hire anyone with a pulse because no one wants to drive trucks anymore.
One thing that seems to kill trucking as a career is an ongoing promise that computer is going to replace human drivers in a near future.
And thanks to that, we get the worst of both worlds: companies hiring underqualified truckers from abroad due to a shortage, and the worst people you know using this legitimate issue as an excuse to be racist.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 10, 2026, 10:09:33 AMGoing back to the original question, we've had some bridge and sign hits in Virginia when dump truck drivers were cruising along with the bed raised. I can perhaps understand why they might have the bed raised while moving around a construction zone, but why is there any reason ever to drive that way on a highway that's open to the public?
It happens so often you'll see this sign (https://maps.app.goo.gl/REpNPLvW1tSec63TA) on many Florida freeways during a construction project.
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 10, 2026, 10:17:06 PMQuote from: kalvado on April 10, 2026, 10:09:55 PMQuote from: LilianaUwU on April 10, 2026, 10:02:38 PMUnderqualified truckers are a huge issue in Canada too but it's not about signage, it's again that companies will hire anyone with a pulse because no one wants to drive trucks anymore.
One thing that seems to kill trucking as a career is an ongoing promise that computer is going to replace human drivers in a near future.
And thanks to that, we get the worst of both worlds: companies hiring underqualified truckers from abroad due to a shortage, and the worst people you know using this legitimate issue as an excuse to be racist.
^^ This...
Quote from: NE2 on April 09, 2026, 07:49:34 PMQuote from: Big John on April 09, 2026, 05:00:49 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on April 09, 2026, 04:56:51 PMLack of access to Buc-ee's wears on a person.
Also, what does the second "W" in "WWTF" mean?
What Would Truckers Fuck?
A giant anthropomorphic beaver mascot.
*side-eyes Corvallis, Oregon*
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 10, 2026, 10:09:33 AMGoing back to the original question, we've had some bridge and sign hits in Virginia when dump truck drivers were cruising along with the bed raised. I can perhaps understand why they might have the bed raised while moving around a construction zone, but why is there any reason ever to drive that way on a highway that's open to the public?
As far as I understand it, it's a failsafe measure in case of malfunction.
I kind of sensed some thinly veiled racism in this thread...
I think something else to be mentioned are small sample sizes. So someone saw "another one," that was their second one? Third one? An article was cited of it happening. Fair enough, but what about all the truck drivers that don't get into issues? Odds would say for every instance of this happening, there's a thousand instances of it not happening.
It's like if you live in a neighborhood and one year, three houses are broken into, but you only hear about it happening once. The next year, two houses are broken into, but this time you hear about it both times. This creates the perceptions break-ins have doubled, when the overall number is about the same or declined.
But bad drivers are bad drivers. I've known plenty of bad drivers who have never had any legal issues. Some people are easily distracted, and if it's not a cell phone, it's a radio, or a conversation, or anything else. Some of the worst drivers I encounter on the road are taxi drivers, who ironically, you'd think would be great drivers, right?
And so what if a sign says "official traffic only." History has shown people aren't always going to obey. It's also very clear it's illegal to rob a bank, murder people, or eat meat on Friday. People do it all the time. Who knows why people do the things they do.
I think the issues with the trucking industry are valid and well known, but that's been a notorious issue forever. It's like retail jobs, no one wants to work them with the low pay and often bad hours, so it's hard to retain people, the ones you do hire tend to only have no other viable options.
Quote from: Quillz on April 19, 2026, 12:04:48 AMI kind of sensed some thinly veiled racism in this thread...
I think something else to be mentioned are small sample sizes. So someone saw "another one," that was their second one? Third one? An article was cited of it happening. Fair enough, but what about all the truck drivers that don't get into issues? Odds would say for every instance of this happening, there's a thousand instances of it not happening.
It's like if you live in a neighborhood and one year, three houses are broken into, but you only hear about it happening once. The next year, two houses are broken into, but this time you hear about it both times. This creates the perceptions break-ins have doubled, when the overall number is about the same or declined.
But bad drivers are bad drivers. I've known plenty of bad drivers who have never had any legal issues. Some people are easily distracted, and if it's not a cell phone, it's a radio, or a conversation, or anything else. Some of the worst drivers I encounter on the road are taxi drivers, who ironically, you'd think would be great drivers, right?
And so what if a sign says "official traffic only." History has shown people aren't always going to obey. It's also very clear it's illegal to rob a bank, murder people, or eat meat on Friday. People do it all the time. Who knows why people do the things they do.
I think the issues with the trucking industry are valid and well known, but that's been a notorious issue forever. It's like retail jobs, no one wants to work them with the low pay and often bad hours, so it's hard to retain people, the ones you do hire tend to only have no other viable options.
Whatever it worth, but looks like US went through minimum of fatal accidents, both total and commercial, in 2010s. Rates are rising since beginning of COVID. Which is generally strange, as safety features of newer vehicles are improving, and older less safe vehicles are leaving roads.
It's not a strong trend in terms of numbers, but it just goes the wrong way.
Same is true for commercial vehicles.
I am not sure why that happens. It seems too fast of a trend to blame decay in road engineering (although likely a contribution), and vehicle design should move things other way. So there has to be something about who drives and how they drive.
More trucks on roads each year
More cars on roads almost every year
Limited increase in overall lane-miles
Stagnant driver pay
Greater requirements for any driver
More unnecessary distractions
Ridiculous physical/time demands on drivers
Cherry-picking news stories
There's your answer.
Bridge strikes do occur in Europe, but not nearly as much as in North America it seems. An overpass on I-10 in Houston was hit 75 times (https://abc13.com/post/houston-avenue-bridge-hit-second-time-2-weeks-75th-start-2025-txdot/18447635/) in just over a year.
My theory is that this has to do with flatbed trailers. These trailers are far more common in the U.S. and Canada than in Europe, where most of these trucks use curtainside / tautliner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautliner) trailers, which have roofs, so they are much less likely to result in overheight loading. Most bridge strikes I read about in Europe involve open flatbed trailers with construction materials (excavators in particular).
Another issue could be immigrant drivers who are not familiar with feet and inches. A flatbed driver has a different load several times per week, so they need to take a close look at their loading height compared to van trailers.
I just want to clarify my stance, since there seem to be claims of racism in this thread, and I think I made the most provocative comment. I have no problems with immigrants getting driver's licenses and CDLs and driving trucks. As an example, my roommate last year, who is on a student visa from Zambia, got an Oklahoma driver's license over the summer, and I would have no problem if he decided to get training for a CDL. What I do have a problem with is states giving out CDLs to underqualified drivers (many of whom are illegal migrants) who don't understand American road rules and may not be able to effectively communicate with police and/or other drivers in case of an accident. The color of one's skin or that person's culture has nothing to do with that. It seems to me that at least part of the real issue is that, due to the increased demand for trucking, states have given out CDLs to underqualified drivers (many of whom are illegal immigrants legitimately looking for a job, to no real fault of their own), which has led to unnecessary crashes and deaths.
Do I understand that there are other conflating factors that make this discussion more complex, which have been duly noted in this thread? Yes.
Do I recognize that many on the right are using this as an excuse to be racist towards immigrants? Absolutely.
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2026, 12:29:27 PMSo there has to be something about who drives and how they drive.
On my car, the safety features are more like a buzzer or a ding, and can be ignored if I so desire. Things like adaptive cruise control require me to turn them on, and I can override the emergency braking if I want to. The car will warn me if I'm drifting, but has no way to stop me. If I'm tired, distracted, etc, it's not going to matter. How often have you followed people who have their turn signal on for miles? People are easily distracted and tune things out.
The issue has always been "bad drivers." Yesterday, today, tomorrow.
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 19, 2026, 04:13:36 PMI just want to clarify my stance, since there seem to be claims of racism in this thread, and I think I made the most provocative comment. I have no problems with immigrants getting driver's licenses and CDLs and driving trucks. As an example, my roommate last year, who is on a student visa from Zambia, got an Oklahoma driver's license over the summer, and I would have no problem if he decided to get training for a CDL. What I do have a problem with is states giving out CDLs to underqualified drivers (many of whom are illegal migrants) who don't understand American road rules and may not be able to effectively communicate with police and/or other drivers in case of an accident. The color of one's skin or that person's culture has nothing to do with that. It seems to me that at least part of the real issue is that, due to the increased demand for trucking, states have given out CDLs to underqualified drivers (many of whom are illegal immigrants legitimately looking for a job, to no real fault of their own), which has led to unnecessary crashes and deaths.
Do I understand that there are other conflating factors that make this discussion more complex, which have been duly noted in this thread? Yes.
Do I recognize that many on the right are using this as an excuse to be racist towards immigrants? Absolutely.
I specifically re-read every single post in the thread. I am still struggling to see any sign of
Quote from: Quillz on April 19, 2026, 12:04:48 AMthinly veiled racism in this thread...
It may exist in the wild, but over here discussion never went in that direction. Someone can show an example of otherwise.
Most what was brought up is an ability to read and understand English and units used on US roads - IMHO pretty valid discussion points. Which is not limited to immigrants. Numbers like 20-25% of US adults being at, or below, 6th grade reading level are thrown around all the time. Anecdotally, I heard about NYS DOT employees being illiterate (maybe it was not direct employee but a contractor, though).
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2026, 04:53:53 PMI am still struggling to see any sign of
Because different people interpret things differently. If you don't see it, fine. Others might.
Quote from: Chris on April 19, 2026, 03:07:49 PMAnother issue could be immigrant drivers who are not familiar with feet and inches. A flatbed driver has a different load several times per week, so they need to take a close look at their loading height compared to van trailers.
It's just hard to imagine that, if you're driving a truck hauling a big tall thing on the trailer, that feet and inches wouldn't be the absolute
FIRST thing to figure out.
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 19, 2026, 04:13:36 PMWhat I do have a problem with is states giving out CDLs to underqualified drivers (many of whom are illegal migrants) who don't understand American road rules and may not be able to effectively communicate with police and/or other drivers in case of an accident. The color of one's skin or that person's culture has nothing to do with that. It seems to me that at least part of the real issue is that, due to the increased demand for trucking, states have given out CDLs to underqualified drivers (many of whom are illegal immigrants legitimately looking for a job, to no real fault of their own), which has led to unnecessary crashes and deaths.
Then it has nothing to do with the drivers being immigrants at all. Unless, that is, you're claiming that these states are making the standards stricter for native-born Americans to get a CDL than they make it for immigrants. If states are giving out CDLs to people who don't understand the laws well enough to deserve one, then that's a CDL testing problem, not an immigration problem. So why bring up their immigration status at all?
I'm pretty sure the US citizenship test doesn't have anything on it at all about feet and inches.
Also, take Webb County, TX. 40% to 50% of the population of Webb County speaks English "less than very well" according to census data, yet only about 25% of the population is foreign-born. This means that there is a sizeable segment of the population there who were born in this country but "may not be able to effectively communicate with police and/or other drivers in case of an accident". Again, this is not an immigration thing.
Quote from: Chris on April 19, 2026, 03:07:49 PMAnother issue could be immigrant drivers who are not familiar with feet and inches. A flatbed driver has a different load several times per week, so they need to take a close look at their loading height compared to van trailers.
That day-to-day variability in load height, and the need to take a close look at it, is true whether somebody understands feet and inches or not. I can understand feet and inches perfectly or hardly at all but, if I'm not regularly checking my load height, then it doesn't matter. And I don't care what measurement system a country uses: if your load is
x units, then you won't fit under any bridges with clearance greater than
x.
Sounds like a lot of these issues could be solved if the trucking companies paid better, trained better, and provided an overall better standard. History has shown if you treat people well, if you provide them a sound living, they will want to work and do a great job.
But, you know, that kind of eats into the profits of the trucking companies. And those yachts don't buy themselves.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2026, 05:28:40 PMIf states are giving out CDLs to people who don't understand the laws well enough to deserve one, then that's a CDL testing problem, not an immigration problem. So why bring up their immigration status at all?
I suspect it's about states willingness to bend the rules. Back in the day, at least in NY, driver license for temporary immigrants were no different, but overall process included thing like SSN, passport, birth certificate - so one had to be legal immigration wise when license was issued.
After 9-11 rules started to tighten, like visa expiration being expiration of license. And an escape path was created. CA started to issue licenses for those who could not prove status. And Mexican consulates were giving out some non-passport IDs to help with that.
I suspect it ended up with testing for both general license and CDL slashed in the name of non discrimination etc etc.
When the Glenridge Road overpass near here takes its monthly hit and rips apart yet another truck (I believe the bridge is pretty much undefeated in these battles), you can count on the news story reporting that the driver just said they were following the GPS... And that the law enforcement and government officials make yet another statement that trucks should not blindly follow consumer-level GPS.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2026, 06:21:30 PMQuote from: kalvado on April 19, 2026, 05:56:38 PMI suspect
oh ok lol
One more data point - back in the day NY allowed general license test to be taken in few other languages. English test was significantly easier.
Whatever it's worth.
Quote from: kalvado on April 19, 2026, 05:56:38 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 19, 2026, 05:28:40 PMIf states are giving out CDLs to people who don't understand the laws well enough to deserve one, then that's a CDL testing problem, not an immigration problem. So why bring up their immigration status at all?
I suspect it's about states willingness to bend the rules. Back in the day, at least in NY, driver license for temporary immigrants were no different, but overall process included thing like SSN, passport, birth certificate - so one had to be legal immigration wise when license was issued.
After 9-11 rules started to tighten, like visa expiration being expiration of license. And an escape path was created. CA started to issue licenses for those who could not prove status. And Mexican consulates were giving out some non-passport IDs to help with that.
I suspect it ended up with testing for both general license and CDL slashed in the name of non discrimination etc etc.
I suspect it's because Darcy Ptarmigan, a schoolteacher in Ormsby County, Nevada, once tripped and fell down a set of stairs and broke one of the heels of her shoes, which she purchased for a dollar twenty at a musical record outlet in downtown Pasadena, California. (The heels, that is, not the shoes.) I suspect she then yelled out "God damn immigrants!" because she couldn't think of anyone else to blame for her own actions. I suspect she was then accosted by wave after wave of rich men in three-piece Italian suits cramming check after check for ten dollars and seventeen cents into her mouth because she was doing them a favor by providing a scapegoat they could blame for various misdeeds they had committed.
I suspect that as long as someone prefaces whatever random stuff they make up out of whole cloth with "I suspect", they expect they can get away with making it sound plausible, since nobody can really prove that it did or didn't happen, and even if they could they can just say they never believed it, they just suspected. I suspect that it's a tactic that comes in handy when you're a bullshitter.
Not all immigrant drivers are Skeery Messkins.
https://www.foxnews.com/story/fiery-crash-kills-10-on-texas-highway
Quote from: Road Hog on April 19, 2026, 11:11:42 PMNot all immigrant drivers are Skeery Messkins.
https://www.foxnews.com/story/fiery-crash-kills-10-on-texas-highway
Nothing like a 21-year-old news story to really drive a point home.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2026, 08:42:52 AMQuote from: Road Hog on April 19, 2026, 11:11:42 PMNot all immigrant drivers are Skeery Messkins.
https://www.foxnews.com/story/fiery-crash-kills-10-on-texas-highway
Nothing like a 21-year-old news story to really drive a point home.
It still makes an interesting point about language, where they had to find an interpreter to charge the driver.
I wonder which language was used for testing.. NY has handbook in 4 languages, TX only in English. But translation is easy these days. But written exam may still be available only in a few languages. But TX uses third party testing, and who knows what they can do....
https://www.wdrb.com/news/5-louisville-residents-face-federal-charges-for-selling-illegal-drivers-licenses-to-immigrants/article_00547934-7a24-4ec7-9710-99e25e5d2cb9.html
Quote from: hbelkins on April 20, 2026, 01:04:00 PMhttps://www.wdrb.com/news/5-louisville-residents-face-federal-charges-for-selling-illegal-drivers-licenses-to-immigrants/article_00547934-7a24-4ec7-9710-99e25e5d2cb9.html
I searched the article for {commercial} and {CDL} and came up with nothing.
But I did find this in a Google search:
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/florida-arrests-eight-for-drivers-license-fraud-targeting-illegal-migrants
Quote from: kalvado on April 09, 2026, 07:20:01 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 05:40:04 PMQuote from: Bobby5280 on April 09, 2026, 04:50:26 PMMy theory: truck driving jobs have grown so bad that various trucking companies have run-off all their better qualified drivers. They have been employing illegal migrants as drivers. With the crackdown on immigration the trucking companies are having to hire whatever suckers they can manage to get behind the wheel.
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 09, 2026, 05:35:23 PMUndoubtedly this is at least a factor. With all the high-profile accidents involving migrant truckers who are not aware of the laws of the road in the USA, I would expect that a lot of these sign strikes are as a result of either their bad driving or unqualified bad replacements for those migrant drivers.
I read it differently. Immigrants driving trucks is nothing new. That's been a thing for decades. But most of those immigrant truckers were good drivers. If they're being run off the job, then the positions are being filled by non-immigrant but less-qualified drivers, and accidents are to be expected.
I wonder how long would it take for someone driving around the country to pick up at least some basic English and non-metric units?
Because, you know, English proficiency is one of sour points about foreign drivers.
Bridge hits due to (obviously) general purpose GPS vs truck specific ones are an easy one. But inability to interpret 10'6" is another interesting point. I didn't believe in idea when that was originally brought up, but thinking about it...
There are legitimate reasons to have truck drivers who are foreign, particularly Canadian and Mexican. Native or foreign, truck drivers should be able to read clearance signs. It might help, if we used the international version and showed it in metric as well as customary units. But, what could it hurt, if we put up a bumper, preferably of some soft but loud material (and maybe even 300 mm or one foot too low) far enough in advance of the low bridge to cause a visual as well as auditor warning that trouble was imminent. Metric signs in Spanish (especially in the southwest) and French (especially in the northeast) couldn't hurt either. Better to hit a low hanging bumper and be warned than to get caught (or, worse yet destroy) a bridge. This should be for any bridge below the standard minimum height (16' = 4.88 m in California). California, at least on I-5, posts signs WELL in advance of lower bridges. Some of them contain oddly specific distances.
Quote from: michravera on May 06, 2026, 02:18:05 PMQuote from: kalvado on April 09, 2026, 07:20:01 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 05:40:04 PMQuote from: Bobby5280 on April 09, 2026, 04:50:26 PMMy theory: truck driving jobs have grown so bad that various trucking companies have run-off all their better qualified drivers. They have been employing illegal migrants as drivers. With the crackdown on immigration the trucking companies are having to hire whatever suckers they can manage to get behind the wheel.
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 09, 2026, 05:35:23 PMUndoubtedly this is at least a factor. With all the high-profile accidents involving migrant truckers who are not aware of the laws of the road in the USA, I would expect that a lot of these sign strikes are as a result of either their bad driving or unqualified bad replacements for those migrant drivers.
I read it differently. Immigrants driving trucks is nothing new. That's been a thing for decades. But most of those immigrant truckers were good drivers. If they're being run off the job, then the positions are being filled by non-immigrant but less-qualified drivers, and accidents are to be expected.
I wonder how long would it take for someone driving around the country to pick up at least some basic English and non-metric units?
Because, you know, English proficiency is one of sour points about foreign drivers.
Bridge hits due to (obviously) general purpose GPS vs truck specific ones are an easy one. But inability to interpret 10'6" is another interesting point. I didn't believe in idea when that was originally brought up, but thinking about it...
There are legitimate reasons to have truck drivers who are foreign, particularly Canadian and Mexican. Native or foreign, truck drivers should be able to read clearance signs. It might help, if we used the international version and showed it in metric as well as customary units. But, what could it hurt, if we put up a bumper, preferably of some soft but loud material (and maybe even 300 mm or one foot too low) far enough in advance of the low bridge to cause a visual as well as auditor warning that trouble was imminent. Metric signs in Spanish (especially in the southwest) and French (especially in the northeast) couldn't hurt either. Better to hit a low hanging bumper and be warned than to get caught (or, worse yet destroy) a bridge. This should be for any bridge below the standard minimum height (16' = 4.88 m in California). California, at least on I-5, posts signs WELL in advance of lower bridges. Some of them contain oddly specific distances.
And can we switch to km-based exit numbers, while we're at this?
Quote from: kalvado on May 06, 2026, 04:39:03 PMAnd can we switch to km-based exit numbers, while we're at this?
As someone who lives in the part of the country where section line roads are the norm, and therefore mile markers correspond to the road grid, I'm against metric exit numbers.
Quote from: kalvado on May 06, 2026, 04:39:03 PMQuote from: michravera on May 06, 2026, 02:18:05 PMQuote from: kalvado on April 09, 2026, 07:20:01 PMQuote from: kphoger on April 09, 2026, 05:40:04 PMQuote from: Bobby5280 on April 09, 2026, 04:50:26 PMMy theory: truck driving jobs have grown so bad that various trucking companies have run-off all their better qualified drivers. They have been employing illegal migrants as drivers. With the crackdown on immigration the trucking companies are having to hire whatever suckers they can manage to get behind the wheel.
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 09, 2026, 05:35:23 PMUndoubtedly this is at least a factor. With all the high-profile accidents involving migrant truckers who are not aware of the laws of the road in the USA, I would expect that a lot of these sign strikes are as a result of either their bad driving or unqualified bad replacements for those migrant drivers.
I read it differently. Immigrants driving trucks is nothing new. That's been a thing for decades. But most of those immigrant truckers were good drivers. If they're being run off the job, then the positions are being filled by non-immigrant but less-qualified drivers, and accidents are to be expected.
I wonder how long would it take for someone driving around the country to pick up at least some basic English and non-metric units?
Because, you know, English proficiency is one of sour points about foreign drivers.
Bridge hits due to (obviously) general purpose GPS vs truck specific ones are an easy one. But inability to interpret 10'6" is another interesting point. I didn't believe in idea when that was originally brought up, but thinking about it...
There are legitimate reasons to have truck drivers who are foreign, particularly Canadian and Mexican. Native or foreign, truck drivers should be able to read clearance signs. It might help, if we used the international version and showed it in metric as well as customary units. But, what could it hurt, if we put up a bumper, preferably of some soft but loud material (and maybe even 300 mm or one foot too low) far enough in advance of the low bridge to cause a visual as well as auditor warning that trouble was imminent. Metric signs in Spanish (especially in the southwest) and French (especially in the northeast) couldn't hurt either. Better to hit a low hanging bumper and be warned than to get caught (or, worse yet destroy) a bridge. This should be for any bridge below the standard minimum height (16' = 4.88 m in California). California, at least on I-5, posts signs WELL in advance of lower bridges. Some of them contain oddly specific distances.
And can we switch to km-based exit numbers, while we're at this?
Without objection, it is so ordered.
^^ I-19 has a word to say.
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2026, 04:42:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 06, 2026, 04:39:03 PMAnd can we switch to km-based exit numbers, while we're at this?
As someone who lives in the part of the country where section line roads are the norm, and therefore mile markers correspond to the road grid, I'm against metric exit numbers.
How many surface roads have mile markers? I'm not really sure why interstates would need to have mile markers that line up with section line roads. Not that US or state routes are straight enough to 1:1 correspond either (although US 183 looks awfully Pythagorean here (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9767964,-99.3551302,14.09z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)).
Quote from: vdeane on May 06, 2026, 08:11:10 PMHow many surface roads have mile markers? I'm not really sure why interstates would need to have mile markers that line up with section line roads. Not that US or state routes are straight enough to 1:1 correspond either (although US 183 looks awfully Pythagorean here (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9767964,-99.3551302,14.09z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)).
Sorry, I knew that logic would get lost. Let me explain.
1. When driving in these parts, it is very common to keep track of miles by counting section-line roads. If I know I have six miles before my turn, then I start counting section-line crossroads until I get to six.
2. On highways with mile markers, it makes sense for the mile markers to line up with that grid. Obviously, diagonal highways can throw this off, but most stretches of highway are not diagonal. If I know I have six miles before my turn—also known as six section-line crossroads—before my turn, and I see mile marker 126, then I can expect my turn to be somewhere around mile marker 120 or 132.
3. I think it would be weird for mile markers on Interstates to work differently than mile markers on surface highways.
Quote from: michravera on May 06, 2026, 05:50:53 PMWithout objection, it is so ordered.
Point of order, Mr. Speaker: the gentleman from Kansas did object prior to the chair's ruling and therefore there is no unanimous consent on the motion laid upon the table.
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2026, 08:49:58 PMQuote from: vdeane on May 06, 2026, 08:11:10 PMHow many surface roads have mile markers? I'm not really sure why interstates would need to have mile markers that line up with section line roads. Not that US or state routes are straight enough to 1:1 correspond either (although US 183 looks awfully Pythagorean here (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9767964,-99.3551302,14.09z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)).
Sorry, I knew that logic would get lost. Let me explain.
1. When driving in these parts, it is very common to keep track of miles by counting section-line roads. If I know I have six miles before my turn, then I start counting section-line crossroads until I get to six.
2. On highways with mile markers, it makes sense for the mile markers to line up with that grid. Obviously, diagonal highways can throw this off, but most stretches of highway are not diagonal. If I know I have six miles before my turn—also known as six section-line crossroads—before my turn, and I see mile marker 126, then I can expect my turn to be somewhere around mile marker 120 or 132.
3. I think it would be weird for mile markers on Interstates to work differently than mile markers on surface highways.
That and exit numbers are more or less arbitrary anyway. We've decided that they are based on mile distances because that is both convenient for maintenance (allows more exits to be easily added later) and provides the added bonus that travelers can compute distances between exits. But the main purpose is to simply identify an exit.
Changing them to km-posts doesn't really aid in the identify-exits thing (I guess it would make A-B exits ⅝ as common?), as well as making them less convenient (how many people know what a kilometer actually
is?).
Adding meter heights to overpasses—
in addition to feet and inches—would just be an unambiguous improvement. (I guess you could argue that it adds to message loading, but there generally aren't many messages on bridges other than the height and maybe the name of the thing it's carrying if your DOT likes identifying that.)
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2026, 08:49:58 PMQuote from: vdeane on May 06, 2026, 08:11:10 PMHow many surface roads have mile markers? I'm not really sure why interstates would need to have mile markers that line up with section line roads. Not that US or state routes are straight enough to 1:1 correspond either (although US 183 looks awfully Pythagorean here (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9767964,-99.3551302,14.09z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)).
Sorry, I knew that logic would get lost. Let me explain.
1. When driving in these parts, it is very common to keep track of miles by counting section-line roads. If I know I have six miles before my turn, then I start counting section-line crossroads until I get to six.
2. On highways with mile markers, it makes sense for the mile markers to line up with that grid. Obviously, diagonal highways can throw this off, but most stretches of highway are not diagonal. If I know I have six miles before my turn—also known as six section-line crossroads—before my turn, and I see mile marker 126, then I can expect my turn to be somewhere around mile marker 120 or 132.
3. I think it would be weird for mile markers on Interstates to work differently than mile markers on surface highways.
I mean, there's also stuff like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8451696,-97.5924791,13.25z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D). My sense looking at a map is that the most major roads are the ones that are the least likely to be straight as an arrow for more than a few miles at a time. And how many places have mile markers on non-freeways anyways? The only examples I can think of off the top of my head that aren't in New Jersey or Nevada are Overseas Highway and a couple parkways that are a mix of interchanges and at-grades (also technically NY 17 still, given Hale Eddy); I'm not counting things like reference markers and postmiles that only roadgeeks are capable of deciphering and might not match current route alignments (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5296526,-77.6534702,3a,15y,297.36h,80.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sKQL2RggQo1Z-_TLyEokQlA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D9.739255746746764%26panoid%3DKQL2RggQo1Z-_TLyEokQlA%26yaw%3D297.3611787291406!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D).
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 06, 2026, 11:52:35 PMChanging them to km-posts doesn't really aid in the identify-exits thing (I guess it would make A-B exits ⅝ as common?), as well as making them less convenient (how many people know what a kilometer actually is?).
It would certainly be a godsend for reducing alphabet soup in places like the northeastern urban centers. Not a silver bullet, however (it isn't even in Canada; both Ontario and Québec have at least one suffixed exit that isn't a case of multiple ramps at the same interchange).
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 06, 2026, 11:52:35 PMThat and exit numbers are more or less arbitrary anyway. We've decided that they are based on mile distances because that is both convenient for maintenance (allows more exits to be easily added later) and provides the added bonus that travelers can compute distances between exits. But the main purpose is to simply identify an exit.
I wonder if this is why most of Europe is still sequential. Not only do I get the sense that exit numbers, like route numbers, are simply much less important over there, I'm curious if they're also less likely to add exits after the fact due to being less prone to new development in the form of sprawl.
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2026, 04:42:57 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 06, 2026, 04:39:03 PMAnd can we switch to km-based exit numbers, while we're at this?
As someone who lives in the part of the country where section line roads are the norm, and therefore mile markers correspond to the road grid, I'm against metric exit numbers.
Well, most of the prairie provinces have mile based grids, and yet it works.
Quote from: vdeane on May 07, 2026, 12:55:30 PMI mean, there's also stuff like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8451696,-97.5924791,13.25z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D).
As I said,
most stretches of highway are not diagonal. In that same area, consider US-50, which, other than a couple of railroad overpasses, is a straight shot from Hutch to Newton. Or K-14 south of Hutch. Or US-54 from Kingman to Pratt. But especially where I grew up in western Kansas, you've got nearly-straight stuff
like this (https://maps.app.goo.gl/411Y27WJvjxvu4Bm7). Sure, it doesn't work out exactly on every road, but it's useful.
Where I grew up, we referred to
this (https://maps.app.goo.gl/CJ64ZmWM1w1Fvikf6) as "seven mile hill" because it started
seven miles after leaving town (https://maps.app.goo.gl/aJKGDF1iXLGLyFZA8). I had a friend who lived on a farm several miles off the highway in that area, and I had a hard time remembering how to get to her farm. Back then, the rural roads weren't even named. But all I had to remember was to turn at the last road before seven mile hill. So I'd simply watch the odometer for six miles, and there was my turn.
Quote from: vdeane on May 07, 2026, 12:55:30 PMMy sense looking at a map is that the most major roads are the ones that are the least likely to be straight as an arrow for more than a few miles at a time.
And it's the minor ones where I'm most likely to be on the hunt for an obscure turn-off.
Quote from: vdeane on May 07, 2026, 12:55:30 PMAnd how many places have mile markers on non-freeways anyways?
Huh? A lot of places, at least in this part of the country.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/55jjq66PYs4LPee28
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KX3UPTeYaXQg22Dy5
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cLqZmHaV2WQbUtme6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KtdUi5fMoD1tCRa56
Quote from: LilianaUwU on May 07, 2026, 01:16:43 PMWell, most of the prairie provinces have mile based grids, and yet it works.
"Works." But is less useful in the way I've described. If someone lives five section-line roads away from yours, you can't simply watch for five mile markers or check the odometer for five miles.
I think that, if the system of measurement bears less resemblance to the physical layout of the roads, then that system is less useful. We could have Smoot-based mile markers, and they would "work", but they wouldn't be as useful.
Quote from: kphoger on May 07, 2026, 01:35:31 PM"Works." But is less useful in the way I've described. If someone lives five section-line roads away from yours, you can't simply watch for five mile markers or check the odometer for five miles.
Yeah, life was tough without GPS...
Quote from: kalvado on May 07, 2026, 01:38:27 PMYeah, life was tough without GPS...
Was?
I've never had a car with sat-nav directions.
Quote from: kphoger on May 07, 2026, 01:39:47 PMQuote from: kalvado on May 07, 2026, 01:38:27 PMYeah, life was tough without GPS...
Was?
I've never had a car with sat-nav directions.
It must be tough to live without smartphone these days .. but I am jealous of that digital detox!
Just cause your car has a sat-nav doesn't mean you have to put your destination in it if you don't want to.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 07, 2026, 11:49:24 PMJust cause your car has a sat-nav doesn't mean you have to put your destination in it if you don't want to.
Modern GPS never has good ideas anyways. At least old school GPS would blindly introduce you to some kick ass and haggard mountain roads.
I do wonder sometimes if the advent of modern onboard GPS has led to a decline in people driving backroads. Most phone and car GPS software will heavily emphasize name-brand highways over roads which might actually save time. I noticed on my trip to Fallon a couple months back that my bypass from Merced to San Andreas cut about 40 minutes from my morning GPS estimate. The GPS wanted to take me up 99 from Fresno during Sacramento rush hour and turn east on I-80.
For me, it has nothing to do with GPS. It has everything to do with I have no idea what the road quality will be like.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 12:02:56 AMQuote from: Scott5114 on May 07, 2026, 11:49:24 PMJust cause your car has a sat-nav doesn't mean you have to put your destination in it if you don't want to.
Modern GPS never has good ideas anyways. At least old school GPS would blindly introduce you to some kick ass and haggard mountain roads.
I do wonder sometimes if the advent of modern onboard GPS has led to a decline in people driving backroads. Most phone and car GPS software will heavily emphasize name-brand highways over roads which might actually save time. I noticed on my trip to Fallon a couple months back that my bypass from Merced to San Andreas cut about 40 minutes from my morning GPS estimate. The GPS wanted to take me up 99 from Fresno during Sacramento rush hour and turn east on I-80.
Half the time, I force Google maps to not take back roads...
Quote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 03:41:07 AMFor me, it has nothing to do with GPS. It has everything to do with I have no idea what the road quality will be like.
Modern map software seems like prone to sending you down something like a County Route J1 east of Hollister. On paper to computer it might look faster but in reality the bone crushing asphalt surface slows you way down. An older GPS would look at a road like that and just assume you can hold the 55 MPH speed limit the entire time.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 08:13:37 AMQuote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 03:41:07 AMFor me, it has nothing to do with GPS. It has everything to do with I have no idea what the road quality will be like.
Modern map software seems like prone to sending you down something like a County Route J1 east of Hollister. On paper to computer it might look faster but in reality the bone crushing asphalt surface slows you way down. An older GPS would look at a road like that and just assume you can hold the 55 MPH speed limit the entire time.
And that's the issue. Older GPS software didn't have the kind of information the newer ones have, so they would look strictly at start to finish and determine that this route is technically faster, but it has no knowledge of the road quality and what kind of speed you can maintain.
There are quite a few alternate routes I will take because I know they are in general good shape. But many others, I wouldn't trust.
Google Maps still likes sending people down minor roads. For example...
Even before recent road construction started north of Abilene TX, more often than not Google has you use FM-707 through Tye (including a railroad crossing) instead of just staying on US-277 for this route (https://maps.app.goo.gl/oMStoHn2FLvG9iZT6), even though it's only 2½ miles shorter.
And the route from Wichita KS to Springfield MO always includes quite a few miles of bumpy no-shoulder 55-mph lettered routes in Missouri through here (https://maps.app.goo.gl/Qp6sFMEqAPnNL8sh6). Now, that's pretty much the route I go, but definitely not during winter weather, and I can only imagine doing it in an RV like I see some people doing. It's only a tenth of a mile shorter than a mile shorter than just using MO-96 directly through Carthage.
Those are just the two that always stick out to me, but I see similar all the time.
Quote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 05:21:59 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 08:13:37 AMQuote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 03:41:07 AMFor me, it has nothing to do with GPS. It has everything to do with I have no idea what the road quality will be like.
Modern map software seems like prone to sending you down something like a County Route J1 east of Hollister. On paper to computer it might look faster but in reality the bone crushing asphalt surface slows you way down. An older GPS would look at a road like that and just assume you can hold the 55 MPH speed limit the entire time.
And that's the issue. Older GPS software didn't have the kind of information the newer ones have, so they would look strictly at start to finish and determine that this route is technically faster, but it has no knowledge of the road quality and what kind of speed you can maintain.
There are quite a few alternate routes I will take because I know they are in general good shape. But many others, I wouldn't trust.
Me personally the more haggard something is the more I tend to enjoy it. These small cars with modern independent rear suspension pretty much soak up bumps anyways.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 07:08:13 PMQuote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 05:21:59 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 08:13:37 AMQuote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 03:41:07 AMFor me, it has nothing to do with GPS. It has everything to do with I have no idea what the road quality will be like.
Modern map software seems like prone to sending you down something like a County Route J1 east of Hollister. On paper to computer it might look faster but in reality the bone crushing asphalt surface slows you way down. An older GPS would look at a road like that and just assume you can hold the 55 MPH speed limit the entire time.
And that's the issue. Older GPS software didn't have the kind of information the newer ones have, so they would look strictly at start to finish and determine that this route is technically faster, but it has no knowledge of the road quality and what kind of speed you can maintain.
There are quite a few alternate routes I will take because I know they are in general good shape. But many others, I wouldn't trust.
Me personally the more haggard something is the more I tend to enjoy it. These small cars with modern independent rear suspension pretty much soak up bumps anyways.
Spoken like a true Californian!
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 08, 2026, 07:10:26 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 07:08:13 PMQuote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 05:21:59 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 08:13:37 AMQuote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 03:41:07 AMFor me, it has nothing to do with GPS. It has everything to do with I have no idea what the road quality will be like.
Modern map software seems like prone to sending you down something like a County Route J1 east of Hollister. On paper to computer it might look faster but in reality the bone crushing asphalt surface slows you way down. An older GPS would look at a road like that and just assume you can hold the 55 MPH speed limit the entire time.
And that's the issue. Older GPS software didn't have the kind of information the newer ones have, so they would look strictly at start to finish and determine that this route is technically faster, but it has no knowledge of the road quality and what kind of speed you can maintain.
There are quite a few alternate routes I will take because I know they are in general good shape. But many others, I wouldn't trust.
Me personally the more haggard something is the more I tend to enjoy it. These small cars with modern independent rear suspension pretty much soak up bumps anyways.
Spoken like a true Californian!
I guess? The state highways here are pretty much fine and most people from the big cities avoid roads like those I'm eluding to?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 07:16:30 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on May 08, 2026, 07:10:26 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 07:08:13 PMQuote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 05:21:59 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 08:13:37 AMQuote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 03:41:07 AMFor me, it has nothing to do with GPS. It has everything to do with I have no idea what the road quality will be like.
Modern map software seems like prone to sending you down something like a County Route J1 east of Hollister. On paper to computer it might look faster but in reality the bone crushing asphalt surface slows you way down. An older GPS would look at a road like that and just assume you can hold the 55 MPH speed limit the entire time.
And that's the issue. Older GPS software didn't have the kind of information the newer ones have, so they would look strictly at start to finish and determine that this route is technically faster, but it has no knowledge of the road quality and what kind of speed you can maintain.
There are quite a few alternate routes I will take because I know they are in general good shape. But many others, I wouldn't trust.
Me personally the more haggard something is the more I tend to enjoy it. These small cars with modern independent rear suspension pretty much soak up bumps anyways.
Spoken like a true Californian!
I guess? The state highways here are pretty much fine and most people from the big cities avoid roads like those I'm eluding to?
Mostly because winters aren't as harsh, and therefore you don't have to deal with nearly as many potholes which cause flat tires and suspension damage.
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 08, 2026, 07:18:43 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 07:16:30 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on May 08, 2026, 07:10:26 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 07:08:13 PMQuote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 05:21:59 PMQuote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 08:13:37 AMQuote from: Quillz on May 08, 2026, 03:41:07 AMFor me, it has nothing to do with GPS. It has everything to do with I have no idea what the road quality will be like.
Modern map software seems like prone to sending you down something like a County Route J1 east of Hollister. On paper to computer it might look faster but in reality the bone crushing asphalt surface slows you way down. An older GPS would look at a road like that and just assume you can hold the 55 MPH speed limit the entire time.
And that's the issue. Older GPS software didn't have the kind of information the newer ones have, so they would look strictly at start to finish and determine that this route is technically faster, but it has no knowledge of the road quality and what kind of speed you can maintain.
There are quite a few alternate routes I will take because I know they are in general good shape. But many others, I wouldn't trust.
Me personally the more haggard something is the more I tend to enjoy it. These small cars with modern independent rear suspension pretty much soak up bumps anyways.
Spoken like a true Californian!
I guess? The state highways here are pretty much fine and most people from the big cities avoid roads like those I'm eluding to?
Mostly because winters aren't as harsh, and therefore you don't have to deal with nearly as many potholes which cause flat tires and suspension damage.
Yeah but I strike you as someone who has been sticking to mostly to state highways? Rough pavement alone doesn't often cause flat tires (especially with normal side wall profiles).
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 08, 2026, 07:18:43 PMyou don't have to deal with nearly as many potholes which cause flat tires and suspension damage.
On an annual basis, probably not, but they don't get fixed very often around here either, so they accumulate.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2026, 07:16:30 PMeluding
psssssssssst. . . . . I don't think that means what you think it means.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on May 08, 2026, 07:25:37 PMQuote from: Molandfreak on May 08, 2026, 07:18:43 PMyou don't have to deal with nearly as many potholes which cause flat tires and suspension damage.
On an annual basis, probably not, but they don't get fixed very often around here either, so they accumulate.
Including one in which I could probably fit on CASR-17 near The Cats restaurant that seems to resist attempts to repair it. I've seen the patches. It just doesn't seem to stay fixed.
Everyday they are finding that unsafe trucking companies are changing names to escape the bad safety records and replacing the numbers on the side of the cabs.
On You Tube look up California Insider's Cargo Theft on the Rise.
It tells of trucks being lured to incorrect destination points to steal the cargo and it says that independent drivers accept runs from an open market type website that lists the shipments to different places and drivers commit to completing them with little to no association or establishment of trust. Valuable cargo runs are followed by SoCal criminals up to 1,000 miles and when the driver stops for a restroom break their cargo is taken which they don't realize until reaching their destination.
It's a lousy job because GPS tracking forces them to stop for sleep periods and there's no way to make up for lost time or do a rush delivery to make a profit.
New Supreme Court ruling allows citizens to sue freight brokers (if I'm understanding the article correctly), making them more liable for any infractions, especially truck accidents caused by bad and inexperienced truck drivers:
https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-truckers-trucking-crash-a7918cb14bd3f780dd166802c0d7d8dd