Which city has the most interchanges between two freeways where one or more movements are not provided? I'm trying to limit the list to somewhat logical movements, with extreme doubling back movements not listed
Chicago
* I-90 at I-94 north of downtown:
- EB I-90 to NB I-94
- SB I-94 to WB I-90
No one coming from O' Hare ever wants to go north on I-94?
* I-94 at I-294
- NB I-294 to EB I-94
- WB I-94 to SB I-94
* I-94 at US 41/Skokie Highway
- EB I-94 to NB US 41
- SB US 41 to WB I-94
* I-57 at I-294
- NB I-57 to NB I-294
- SB I-294 to SB I-57
- SB I-57 to SB I-294
- NB I-294 to NB I-57
Total: 10
St. Louis
* West end of the PSB (all movements were to be provided via the unbuilt Distributor Freeway)
- EB I-70 to WB I-64
- EB I-64 to WB I-70
- NB I-55 to WB I-64
- EB I-64 to SB I-55
* If the MLK Bridge can be counted as a freeway in IL, at the interchange with I-55/64/70
- NB I-55 to WB MLK (Could be used by NB IL 3 traffic wanted to access the MLK)
- EB MLK to SB I-55
Currently planned with the new river bridge
* Relocated I-70 at I-44
- EB I-44 to EB relocated I-70
- WB relocated I-70 to WB I-44
* Relocated I-70 at I-55/64
- NB I-55 to WB relocated I-70 (again for given IL 3 to I-70 traffic a PSB alternative)
- EB relocated I-70 to SB I-55
Total: 4 currently, 6 if the MLK Bridge can be counted as a freeway, 6 or 8 with the planned new I-70 bridge
I'd say that Denver is pretty bad
there's no:
I-76 E -> I-270 W
I-25 S -> I-76 W
I-270 E -> I-70 W
I-70 E -> I-270 W
I-76 E -> E-470 W
I-76 E -> E-470 E
I-76 W -> E-470 W
E-470 W -> I-76 W
E-470 E -> I-76 E
E-470 E -> I-76 W
US-6 W -> I-70 E
US-6 E -> I-70 E
US-6 E -> I-70 W
I-70 E -> US-6 W
I-70 W -> US-6 E
I-70 W -> US-6 W
I-76 W -> I-70 E
I-70 W -> I-76 E
Some of those missing movements aren't really necessary, particularly the ones in the I-25/I-76/I-270 triangle, but beyond that many of those are conceivably necessary (especially at I-76 and E-470).
That's 18
The Hollywood Split in the S.F. Valley does not permit motorists to transition directly from CA-134 West onto US-101 South, nor can they take US-101 North onto CA-134 East. The latter change is served by the Vineland Avenue exit, but the former was never built because the Laurel Canyon Freeway was expected to be built, which has never happened.
Santa Clara County in California...
CA-85 SB -> CA-237 EB (Mtn View)
CA-85 NB -> CA-237 WB (Mtn View)
CA-237 EB -> CA-85 SB (Mtn View)
CA-85 NB -> US 101 SB (Mtn View)
US 101 NB -> CA-85 SB (Mtn View)
I-880 NB -> CA-237 WB (Milpitas)
CA-237 EB -> US 101 NB (Sunnyvale)
US 101 SB -> CA-237 WB (Sunnyvale)
US 101 NB -> CA-237 EB (Sunnyvale)
CA-237 WB -> US 101 SB (Sunnyvale)
CA-85 SB -> US 101 NB (San Jose)
I-880 SB -> US 101 NB (San Jose)
CA-87 NB -> US 101 SB (San Jose)
US 101 NB -> CA-87 SB (San Jose)
I-880 & CA-87... No Interchange (8 movements missing)
That's 22 total... If you wanted to break that down by city then...
12 - San Jose
5 - Mountain View
4 - Sunnyvale
1 - Milpitas
There is no direct connection between CA-210 (future I-210) and CA-83, as an interchange was successfully blocked by the local residents. Thus, while CA-83 legally terminates at CA-210, it physically seemingly continues northward.
Quote from: Quillz on November 19, 2010, 02:25:31 AM
There is no direct connection between CA-210 (future I-210) and CA-83, as an interchange was successfully blocked by the local residents. Thus, while CA-83 legally terminates at CA-210, it physically seemingly continues northward.
Which of these is not like the others?
San Diego has 29: :-o
I-5/I-805 (North interchange)
NB I-5 to SB I-805
NB I-805 to SB I-5
I-5/I-805 (South interchange)
SB I-5 to NB I-805
SB I-805 to NB I-5
I-805/CA 94
SB I-805 to WB CA 94
EB CA 94 to NB I-805
I-805/CA 15
NB I-805 to SB CA 15
SB I-805 to NB CA 15
NB CA 15 to SB I-805
SB CA 15 to NB I-805
I-805/CA 163
NB I-805 to SB CA 163
SB I-805 to NB CA 163
NB CA 163 to SB I-805
SB CA 163 to NB I-805
I-5/CA 56
SB I-5 to EB CA 56
WB CA 56 to NB I-5
I-5/I-8
SB I-5 to WB I-8
EB I-8 to NB I-5
I-5/CA 163
NB CA 163 to SB I-5
NB I-5 to SB CA 163
I-5/CA 94
NB I-5 to EB CA 94
WB CA 94 to SB I-5
CA 15/CA 94
SB CA 15 to EB CA 94
WB CA 94 to NB CA 15
I-15/CA 163
NB I-15 to SB CA 163
NB CA 163 to SB I-15
CA 163/CA 52
SB CA 163 to EB CA 52
EB CA 52 to NB CA 163
WB CA 52 to NB CA 163
I-15 NB to CA-56 is missing as well. It exists, but there is a traffic light. WTF?
I think there are some traffic lights at 78/5 as well.
Some of the examples mentioned are simple forks where traffic wouldn't want to turn back on itself. I could list I-70/I-470 at Wheeling as an example because the interchanges at each end of 470 don't allow traffic heading away from Wheeling to turn round.
Do we count situations where the movements exist and are signed but involve brief use of local streets, possibly a light or two? Because New York has tons of those.
Manhattan
I-95 at Henry Hudson Pkwy
- HHP NB → I-95 SB (involves local street)
- HHP NB → I-95 NB (involves local street)
I-95 at Harlem River Drive
- I-95 SB → HRD NB (does not exist)
- I-95 SB → HRD SB (does not exist)
- I-95 NB → HRD NB (does not exist)
- HRD SB → I-95 SB (does not exist)
- HRD SB → I-95 NB (does not exist)
- HRD NB → I-95 NB (does not exist)
Harlem River Drive at Triboro Bridge
- TBB WB → HRD NB (involves local street)
I-495 at FDR Drive
- FDR NB → I-495 EB (does not exist)
- FDR SB → I-495 EB (does not exist)
- I-495 WB → FDR NB (does not exist)
- I-495 WB → FDR SB (does not exist)
I-478 at FDR Drive
- I-478 NB → FDR NB (involves local street)
- FDR SB → I-478 SB (involves local street)
Brooklyn
I-278 at NY-27
- NY-27 WB → I-278 WB (does not exist)
Queens
Kew Gardens Interchange
- IBP EB → I-678 SB (does not exist)
- GCP WB → I-678 SB (does not exist)
- GCP WB → I-678 NB (does not exist)
I-495 at Grand Central Parkway
- GCP EB → I-495 WB (involves local street)
I-495 at I-678
- I-495 WB → I-678 NB (involves local street)
- I-495 WB → I-678 SB (involves local street)
- I-678 NB → I-495 EB (involves local street)
- I-678 SB → I-495 EB (involves local street)
I-678 at Belt Parkway
- I-678 SB → BP WB (involves local street)
- I-678 NB → BP WB (involves local street)
The Bronx
I-95 at Bronx River Parkway
- I-95 NB → BRP NB (involves local street)
- I-95 NB → BRP SB (does not exist)
- I-95 SB → BRP NB (involves local street)
- I-95 SB → BRP SB (does not exist)
- BRP NB → I-95 NB (involves local street)
- BRP NB → I-95 SB (involves local street)
- BRP SB → I-95 SB (involves local street)
- BRP SB → I-95 NB (involves local street)
I-278 at Bronx river Parkway
- I-278 EB → BRP NB (involves local street)
- I-278 WB → BRP NB (involves local street)
- BRP SB → I-278 EB (involves local street)
- BRP SB → I-278 WB (involves local street)
Bruckner Interchange
- I-278 EB → HRP NB (involves local street)
- HRP SB → I-278 WB (involves local street)
Staten Island
{none}
That's 16 logical movements that do not exist, plus 24 that involve local streets, for a total of 40.
Hmm... what can L.A. come up with?
Quote from: Duke87 on November 19, 2010, 09:10:51 PM
Do we count situations where the movements exist and are signed but involve brief use of local streets, possibly a light or two? Because New York has tons of those.
Manhattan
I-95 at Henry Hudson Pkwy
- HHP NB → I-95 SB (involves local street)
- HHP NB → I-95 NB (involves local street)
Looks more like a long ramp/complex to me; I'm not seeing any other access to classify it as a local street.
QuoteHarlem River Drive at Triboro Bridge
- TBB WB → HRD NB (involves local street)
I guess I would not count this one; given the proximity of the Willis Avenue Bridge, a more standard ramp doesn't look very easy to add, though the current connecting alignment could have been done via an elevated ramp.
QuoteI-478 at FDR Drive
- I-478 NB → FDR NB (involves local street)
- FDR SB → I-478 SB (involves local street)
I'd say not to count these two (but that might change tomorrow); looks like I-478 land FDR lose freeway status too soon.
QuoteI-495 at Grand Central Parkway
- GCP EB → I-495 WB (involves local street)
I would not count this one, as it involves too much time on the outer road. Maybe if there was a ramp from Horace Harding before the intersection with 10th.
QuoteI-495 at I-678
- I-495 WB → I-678 NB (involves local street)
- I-495 WB → I-678 SB (involves local street)
Nope; too long on local streets.
Quote- I-678 NB → I-495 EB (involves local street)
- I-678 SB → I-495 EB (involves local street)
Yes for the NB - EB, maybe for the SB - EB
QuoteI-678 at Belt Parkway
- I-678 SB → BP WB (involves local street)
- I-678 NB → BP WB (involves local street)
I would go ahead and not count these as missing since the local street here is pretty much a C-D/one way outer road.
QuoteThe Bronx
I-95 at Bronx River Parkway
Count all of the local street movements here.
Quote from: Truvelo on November 19, 2010, 11:05:54 AM
Some of the examples mentioned are simple forks where traffic wouldn't want to turn back on itself. I could list I-70/I-470 at Wheeling as an example because the interchanges at each end of 470 don't allow traffic heading away from Wheeling to turn round.
That happens a few times. It happens with I-895 and I-95 in Baltimore as well as I-95 and I-495 in Wilmington.
Perhaps a better question would be: where have they built completely useless ramps to make roadgeeks happy?
Quote from: NE2 on November 19, 2010, 11:44:11 PM
Perhaps a better question would be: where have they built completely useless ramps to make roadgeeks happy?
* The I-57 interchange with I-24?
- NB I-57 to EB I-24
- WB I-24 to SB I-57
Quote from: Revive 755 on November 19, 2010, 10:53:06 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 19, 2010, 09:10:51 PM
I-95 at Henry Hudson Pkwy
- HHP NB → I-95 SB (involves local street)
- HHP NB → I-95 NB (involves local street)
Looks more like a long ramp/complex to me; I'm not seeing any other access to classify it as a local street.
True, both right turns are channeled, but Riverside Drive is nonetheless a surface street. And hey, the exit ramp off the HHP ends at a stop sign. So the movement is certainly low speed, and calling it a direct freeway to freeway movement is a stretch.
QuoteQuoteHarlem River Drive at Triboro Bridge
- TBB WB → HRD NB (involves local street)
I guess I would not count this one; given the proximity of the Willis Avenue Bridge, a more standard ramp doesn't look very easy to add, though the current connecting alignment could have been done via an elevated ramp.
Hey, you didn't say anything about disqualification on account of physical impracticality in providing the connection!
QuoteQuoteI-478 at FDR Drive
I'd say not to count these two (but that might change tomorrow); looks like I-478 land FDR lose freeway status too soon.
It is an oddball case. On the one hand, the Battery Tunnel (478) and Battery Underpass (FDR) directly cross. On the other hand, the two wrap around such that getting to the tunnel involves continuing straight ahead from the end of the "freeway" FDR and then making a right turn at the first light.
QuoteI would not count this one, as it involves too much time on the outer road.
Huh? How is that cause for disqualification?
Quote from: Revive 755 on November 18, 2010, 10:03:17 PM
Which city has the most interchanges between two freeways where one or more movements are not provided? I'm trying to limit the list to somewhat logical movements, with extreme doubling back movements not listed
Chicago
* I-90 at I-94 north of downtown:
- EB I-90 to NB I-94
- SB I-94 to WB I-90
No one coming from O' Hare ever wants to go north on I-94?
* I-94 at I-294
- NB I-294 to EB I-94
- WB I-94 to SB I-94
* I-94 at US 41/Skokie Highway
- EB I-94 to NB US 41
- SB US 41 to WB I-94
* I-57 at I-294
- NB I-57 to NB I-294
- SB I-294 to SB I-57
- SB I-57 to SB I-294
- NB I-294 to NB I-57
Total: 10
You missed some.
I-55 at I-294:
SB I-55 to SB I-294
I-90 at I-94 south of the Loop:
WB (NB) I-94 to EB I-90
WB I-90 to EB (SB) I-94
I-290 at I-294:
EB I-290 to NB I-294 - accomplished via Lake Street (US-20)
I-88 at IL-56:
EB IL-56 to WB I-88
EB I-88 to WB IL-56
Quote from: Brandon on November 20, 2010, 02:57:48 PM
I-90 at I-94 south of the Loop:
WB (NB) I-94 to EB I-90
WB I-90 to EB (SB) I-94
Those two don't seem like very useful movements; so much doubling back that it would be better to just use surface streets. That said, some of the surface routes look like they pass through questionable neighboorhoods or suffer from a lack of places to simply enter the Skyway.
Quote from: Duke87 on November 20, 2010, 01:30:04 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on November 19, 2010, 10:53:06 PM
I would not count this one, as it involves too much time on the outer road.
Huh? How is that cause for disqualification?
I would not count it has a freeway to freeway movement accomplished via local streets since there are two exit ramps from WB I-495 to the outer before traffic from EB GCP is even given a chance to access a single lane C-D road for WB I-495. Probably faster - I have no knowledge about local congestion here - for EB GCP traffic to access WB I-495 by looping around in the cloverleaf between the GCP and I-495.
Ah, so you mean you would count them as not existing rather than using local streets.
(these movements are signed, though...)
Quote from: Revive 755 on November 20, 2010, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: Brandon on November 20, 2010, 02:57:48 PM
I-90 at I-94 south of the Loop:
WB (NB) I-94 to EB I-90
WB I-90 to EB (SB) I-94
Those two don't seem like very useful movements; so much doubling back that it would be better to just use surface streets. That said, some of the surface routes look like they pass through questionable neighboorhoods or suffer from a lack of places to simply enter the Skyway.
Well, it would be very useful for those of us who come up I-57 and would like to use that to go to Indiana if I-80/94 is blocked.
Quote from: Quillz on November 18, 2010, 10:32:55 PM
The Hollywood Split in the S.F. Valley does not permit motorists to transition directly from CA-134 West onto US-101 South, nor can they take US-101 North onto CA-134 East. The latter change is served by the Vineland Avenue exit, but the former was never built because the Laurel Canyon Freeway was expected to be built, which has never happened.
Nearby, you also cannot go from I-5 south to California 134 west, nor can you go California 134 east to I-5 north.
Yeah, that whole alignment of CA-134 is quite weird, but it's hampered by canceled plans and tough geography, running nearby the Santa Monica Mountains. I think I recall reading that eventually, the entire US-101/I-405 junction will be rebuilt, but with the state of economy, that's probably centuries away from happening.
Cleveland, OH checking in
* -- denotes outside of Cuyahoga County, but considered part of the Cleveland area.
1)* I-71 SB to I-271 NB (access via SR-18/Exit 218 East cross-under)
2)* I-271 SB to I-71 NB ( "" "" "" )
I used to see a lot of semis doing the u-ey @ SR-18 to make the transition between the two interstates.
3)* I-77 SB to I-271 NB (access via the SR-176 Wheatley Road South crossover/Exit 143)
4)* I-271 SB to I-77 NB ( "" "" "" "" )
Used to be a bigger void when the Richfield Coliseum (former home of the Cavaliers) was standing.
5)* I-271 NB to I-77 SB (access via Brecksville Road South/Exit 9 to SR-176 South/Exit 143)
6)* I-77 NB to I-271 SB ( "" "" "" "" in reverse)
This is due to the close proximity of the SR-176 exit to both interstates.
7) I-71 NB to SR-176/Jennings Freeway SB (access via W. 14th St South crossover/Exit 247A)
8 -- SR-176/Jennings Freeway NB to I-71 SB ( "" "" "" )
There was never any room to add these interchanges, since it is a narrow double-decked ROW between Metrohealth Hospital & Riverview Cemetery which were both there decades before either freeway.
9) I-71 SB to I-480 EB (access via Snow Road East cross-under/Exit 237)
10) I-480 WB to I-71 NB (access via W.150th St. North/Exit 11 to I-71 @ Exit 240)
Probably because of all the railroad tracks to the north and east of the I-71/I-480 intersection.
11) SR-237 NB to I-480 WB (access via SR-17 West to Grayton Road/Exit 9)
12) I-480 EB to SR-237 SB ( "" "" in reverse)
...which means no quick or easy way to get to/from Cleveland Hopkins Airport to/from points west.
13) I-490 WB to I-90 EB (access via W. 44th St. crossover/Exit 169)
14) I-90 WB to I-490 EB ( "" "" "" )
However, the close triangular alignments of I-77, I-90 & I-490 in Downtown Cleveland really doesn't warrant these connections.
15)* I-90 EB to SR 2 WB -- at Ohio Turnpike/Exit 142-144 (access via SR 57 North cross-under/Exit 145)
16)* SR-2 EB to I-90 WB -- at Ohio Turnpike/Exit 144-142 (access via SR 57 South to Ohio Turnpike @ Exit 145)
No reason why they didn't do this when the I-90 transition between I-80 & SR-2 was completed in the late 70's.
17)* I-90 WB to I-80/Ohio Turnpike EB (access via SR 57 North/Exit 145 to I-90 @ Exit 145)
18)* I-80/Ohio Turnpike WB to I-90 EB ( " " " in reverse)
However, the 1-mile stretch of SR-57 is a limited access highway between I-80 & I-90.
17) I-480 WB to I-271 SB (access via SR-14/Broadway Ave. West crossover/Exit 21)
18) I-271 NB to I-480 EB ( "" "" "" )
The SR-14/Broadway Ave./Forbes Road interchange is always a nightmare. Whoever designed that interchange arrangement was smoking some heavy-duty stuff back in the day! Adding these two ramps would really help alleviate some of the congestion.
19)* I-271 North to I-80/Ohio Turnpike (access via I-77 North/Exit 10 to Ohio Turnpike/Exit 146)
20)* I-271 South to I-80/Ohio Turnpike (access via SR-8 South/Exit 18 to Ohio Turnpike @ Exit 180)
There is no direct connection where I-271 crosses I-80.
-----
TOTAL: 20
8 within Cuyahoga County/Cleveland proper
12 outside of Cuyahoga County, but considered to be part of the Cleveland Metropolitan area.
__
^^^
There are actually a few more at this interchange mess. (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=lorain+oh&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.847644,78.310547&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Lorain,+Ohio&ll=41.38415,-81.983757&spn=0.030267,0.077162&t=h&z=14)
21) I-480 WB to Ohio Turnpike (I-80) EB must use Lorain Road south (Old Ohio 10 at exit 153)
22) Ohio Turnpike (I-80) WB to I-480 EB must use Lorain Road north (Old Ohio 10 at exit 153)
Add in Ohio 10 freeway and get 6 more!
23 & 24) Ohio 10 EB to Ohio Turnpike EB and WB - must use Lorain Road south
25) Ohio 10 WB to Ohio Turnpike EB - must use Lorain Road south (movement to Turnpike WB is covered by I-480 WB)
26) Ohio Turnpike EB to Ohio 10 WB - must use Lorain Road north (Turnpike EB to OH 10 EB is covered by I-480 EB)
27 & 28) Ohio Turnpike WB to Ohio 10 EB & WB - must use Lorain Road north
Quote from: mightyace on December 10, 2010, 11:11:59 PM
^^^
There are actually a few more at this interchange mess. (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=lorain+oh&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.847644,78.310547&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Lorain,+Ohio&ll=41.38415,-81.983757&spn=0.030267,0.077162&t=h&z=14)
21) I-480 WB to Ohio Turnpike (I-80) EB must use Lorain Road south (Old Ohio 10 at exit 153)
22) Ohio Turnpike (I-80) WB to I-480 EB must use Lorain Road north (Old Ohio 10 at exit 153)
Add in Ohio 10 freeway and get 6 more!
23 & 24) Ohio 10 EB to Ohio Turnpike EB and WB - must use Lorain Road south
25) Ohio 10 WB to Ohio Turnpike EB - must use Lorain Road south (movement to Turnpike WB is covered by I-480 WB)
26) Ohio Turnpike EB to Ohio 10 WB - must use Lorain Road north (Turnpike EB to OH 10 EB is covered by I-480 EB)
27 & 28) Ohio Turnpike WB to Ohio 10 EB & WB - must use Lorain Road north
See, that's what happens when you've moved away from an area for nearly 5 years. I completely forgot about the I-80/I-480/SR-10 mishmash of one-direction-only transitions. :banghead:
^^^
Well, I've been away 15 now. But, to be fair, I doubt I could have gotten half of those correct.