A question has arisen on Skyscraper City's international highways forum, about the Australian state of Victoria prohibiting fruit from being brought in from out of state. I've heard that California has some sort of fruit inspection at the state line, since the Mediterranean Fruit Fly epidemic (if "epidemic"'s the right word) of about 30 years ago. But I've never driven into (or out of, for that matter) California. So can someone who knows explain how that works?
Thanks.
some minimum-wage aggie asks you idiotic questions while the border patrol conducts surveillance from within the shadows.
Do all cars stop? As if you were crossing into Canada? Or is it a spot check or do they only do it on certain occasions...? Is it on all roads - the Skyscraper City people are now disagreeing about whether it happens on I-15? Remind me the reason for this - I have dim memories of the fruit fly thing being in the news 30 years ago. Do you know if the constitutionality of this has ever been considered by the courts? (I'm not trying to start an argument about that. It seems like an impediment to interstate commerce, which is a federal rather than a state matter, even if the reasons for it may make perfect sense, and I'm just wondering - as someone with a law degree he's not using - if that's been addressed. If every state started putting up inspection points at the state lines, there would be a political/constitutional issue.)
> Do all cars stop? As if you were crossing into Canada?
if the station is open, yes, but sometimes you are just waved through. They ask more questions of people with out-of-state plates.
> Is it on all roads - the Skyscraper City people are now disagreeing about whether it happens on I-15?
most roads. I-15 was in business the last time I was there, but that one, for example, is laughably easy to bypass on old US-91/466. As in, take the exit before, drive past the long line of cars, get back on the freeway at the very next exit.
I suspect the reason they haven't shored it up is because there's no dirty Mexicans coming from Vegas.
> Do you know if the constitutionality of this has ever been considered by the courts?
I have no idea. According to The Grapes of Wrath, CA has had its own internal frontier since the 1930s.
the aggie stations were closed for many years due to budget cuts. Nowadays, I know the ones on 8, 10 and 40 are open, and there's Border Patrol cars everywhere. I suspect that's where the sudden new funding is from. I've seen cars waved through by the aggies and then immediately pulled over by the border patrol within 200 feet. They want you to slow down just long enough so they can run your plates.
and yes, that's about as constitutional as being forced to quarter soldiers. The line of where the border patrol is allowed to operate with impunity is slowly leaking inland, bit by bit. It used to be just I-8 in California. Now it's I-8 with checkpoints, I-15 on the San Diego county line running radar (!), I-10 with regular patrols and off-road vehicles hiding out in the desert, and even I-40 at the state line has a few cars.
I wonder about that too- last time I drove into California (late 2009) they didn't just ask "Do you have any fruit?"- they asked where I was headed, which seems irrelevant to the point at hand. The person wasn't a border patrol guy or a cop, just some minimum wage aggie. The process only took about 30 seconds per car though
Quote from: corco on December 17, 2010, 12:19:27 PMthey asked where I was headed, which seems irrelevant to the point at hand.
I've been asked that. I've told them "that way, or maybe another", which, unfortunately was the honest to goodness truth. I hadn't decided on a full itinerary yet.
apparently, they don't have the authority to ask follow-up questions, because they waved me through.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 17, 2010, 12:20:48 PM
Quote from: corco on December 17, 2010, 12:19:27 PMthey asked where I was headed, which seems irrelevant to the point at hand.
I've been asked that. I've told them "that way, or maybe another", which, unfortunately was the honest to goodness truth. I hadn't decided on a full itinerary yet.
apparently, they don't have the authority to ask follow-up questions, because they waved me through.
Maybe they didn't care what you said but just wanted to hear if you sounded American.
Quote from: Michael in Philly on December 17, 2010, 12:33:13 PM
Maybe they didn't care what you said but just wanted to hear if you sounded American.
wouldn't be surprised.
the fact that the border patrol is now hiding behind the aggies is a new standard in lack of accountability. at least, on I-8, they clearly themselves before they interrogate you, as opposed to lurking in the shadows.
I may have asked this before in another thread.
Is the one on I-80 in the Sierra Nevadas open?
Is there one on I-5 coming down from Oregon? If so, is it open?
there is one on I-5, but I have no idea if it is open. there's also one on 199 coming in from Oregon, two on 395 heading southbound (one at Alturas coming from Oregon, one just south of Carson City where 395 comes back in).
there's even one on 62 coming in from Arizona just before US-95. Didn't see the border patrol there, though, about three weeks ago. Wonder how long it'll take them to fill that hole in the net.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 17, 2010, 12:49:50 PM
there is one on I-5, but I have no idea if it is open. there's also one on 199 coming in from Oregon, two on 395 heading southbound (one at Alturas coming from Oregon, one just south of Carson City where 395 comes back in).
Gotta make sure we keep those illegal Canucks out of the country. :)
Quote from: mightyace on December 17, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
Gotta make sure we keep those illegal Canucks out of the country. :)
that's why there's a border patrol station on I-87 in New York now.
There was an article in the New York Times a few months ago about immigration inspections taking place on Amtrak trains as far in as Rochester. Of course, if you count Lake Ontario as the border, Rochester's right on it ;-)
In 2004-05, the inspection stations were vastly closed due to budget cuts. Only ever went through two during that time period when they were open, and was waved through both times.
There is an inspection station along U.S. 6 a few miles in from the Nevada state line too:
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images006/us-006_eb_64.jpg)
The one comment about out of state tags was true then, maybe still is now, that if you have California tags you are more likely just waved through, where if you have an out of state tag, they will ask a question or two. There was a lady in a car in front of us at the one station who had a light conversation about a potted plant she was transporting. She was allowed to pass, but the conversation added a minute to our wait time.
I don't know what the policy is for putting them at the state line vs. inland. 15 pretty much is a collection point for anyone coming out of Death Valley, but then why not put a collection point just south of Bishop where 6 and 395 come together? are they worried someone will cross the Sierras on 168? :-D
I have had several encounters with agricultural inspectors (or "aggies" as Jake calls them).
I-10, Colorado River crossing, late December 1998: "Are you bringing fruit or vegetables into California?" I was then eating a carrot, and had the half-eaten carrot in my hand. "No," I said, while chewing it.
I-80, top of Donner Pass, summer 2002: "Where are you coming from?" "Sacramento." "No, where are you coming from?" "Sacramento." "Say that again, please." "SACRAMENTO." "Open your trunk, please." (I was telling the truth, but he thought I was lying because I was coming from the direction of Reno. I didn't feel like making his job easier by pulling out a pen and paper so I could explain to him, in laboriously excruciating detail, that I had been on a Feather River Highway drive and had never actually left California . . .!)
US 97, Dorris, summer 2003: Waved through.
I tend to agree that agricultural inspections display contempt for the Fourth Amendment, but good luck getting a court to agree that they should be outlawed. Judges tend to be very aware of public interest justifications for exercising the police power and I think checkpoints are often justified on the basis that light-touch inspection of the many transgresses against the Fourth Amendment less than intensive searches of the few.
I'm surprised no one has brought up Florida yet. Whenever you enter FL from AL or GA along I-95, I-75, or I-10, they have ag check stations a few miles past the weigh stations. I believe the signs say something to the effect that all vehicles transporting agriculture and aquaculture must stop for inspection. I guess they don't want an infestation of live Maine lobsters!
Oh, and several years ago when my dad bought a condo in Ft. Myers and transported furniture to it, he breezed right by the inspection station with a potted palm tree in the U-haul trailer. Now that you guys know, I guess he's going to get in trouble now!
^^^
It was mentioned the previous time this subject came up. I saw those Florida on I-75 stations going to/from Daytona back in July.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 17, 2010, 12:49:50 PM
there is one on I-5, but I have no idea if it is open. there's also one on 199 coming in from Oregon, two on 395 heading southbound (one at Alturas coming from Oregon, one just south of Carson City where 395 comes back in).
there's even one on 62 coming in from Arizona just before US-95. Didn't see the border patrol there, though, about three weeks ago. Wonder how long it'll take them to fill that hole in the net.
They might not be able to, given that CA 62 is right near the edge of the constitution-free zone. It may be just too far for border patrol to operate.
Rochester is actually just as close to the border as Watertown (and 3x closer than the border patrol roadblock on I-87). We even had our own customs station when the ferry was still here.
These are never going to be challenged in court. I doubt anyone would even have enough standing to make a lawsuit. Might get border patrol kicked out if the national security fear ever goes down, though.
Quote from: deanej on December 17, 2010, 01:45:57 PM
They might not be able to, given that CA 62 is right near the edge of the constitution-free zone. It may be just too far for border patrol to operate.
I-40 is well north of CA-62. wtf is the border patrol doing there, then?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 17, 2010, 12:56:37 PM
Quote from: mightyace on December 17, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
Gotta make sure we keep those illegal Canucks out of the country. :)
that's why there's a border patrol station on I-87 in New York now.
Is it where those folded stop signs are? I remember seeing those on my Montreal trip in 2008.
Keep in mind also that California agricultural inspection stations are where your ferret gets arrested.
I was on I-15 coming from Vegas on New Year's Weekend and I remember we had to stop at a station near Baker. The R/V in front of us got a full inspection, while our car was just waived through... Even though it had a lot of food in it.
I was last on I-5 southbound summer of last year and I don't recall ever seeing a border station.
I hate those inspection stations and border checkpoints. Even though I have nothing to hide, I still get nervous. Ever since that pastor got tazed at a checkpoint outside of Yuma, I've really been nervous to go through them. Leave the border checkponts AT THE BORDER!
A couple other station comments:
* In addition to the other stations on US 395, there is another one northbound between the Nevada state line (coming from Reno) and CA 78/Hallelujah Junction.
* I'm fairly certain the ag station and truck scales on I-80 near Donner Pass were rebuilt about 5 or so years ago (slightly different location).
For the most part at these two stations, they just wave passenger cars through. Most of the time they don't ask questions--at I-80, sometimes they wave you before you even have a chance to come to a complete stop. Sometimes they ask where you're coming from and then wave you through. I even went through that station on 395 driving a fairly big Penske moving truck, and they only asked where I was coming from and where I was moving to.
One thing I do know they scrutinize a little bit is when someone is towing a boat. The attendants will examine the hull looking for some type of sea creatures. Someone told me that there is some potentially harmful species (mollusks, mussels, something I can't recall) in NorCal & Nevada that officials are trying to curtail the rapid population growth of.
I remember as a kid ~20 years ago waiting in a long line at that I-15 station when my family went to Disneyland from Vegas. When we finally got to the stop, they asked us about whether we had any fruit in the vehicle..then let us go.
Quote from: wriddle082 on December 17, 2010, 01:30:08 PM
I'm surprised no one has brought up Florida yet. Whenever you enter FL from AL or GA along I-95, I-75, or I-10, they have ag check stations a few miles past the weigh stations. I believe the signs say something to the effect that all vehicles transporting agriculture and aquaculture must stop for inspection. I guess they don't want an infestation of live Maine lobsters!
I've seen that one on I-95. Never had to stop at it. And the one on I-95 is right after crossing into FL before the first exit going SB (or after the last exit going NB). Only seen trucks having to use it. Have always just breezed by it everytime I've going to FL with my folks.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 17, 2010, 09:38:21 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on December 17, 2010, 01:30:08 PM
I'm surprised no one has brought up Florida yet. Whenever you enter FL from AL or GA along I-95, I-75, or I-10, they have ag check stations a few miles past the weigh stations. I believe the signs say something to the effect that all vehicles transporting agriculture and aquaculture must stop for inspection. I guess they don't want an infestation of live Maine lobsters!
I've seen that one on I-95. Never had to stop at it. And the one on I-95 is right after crossing into FL before the first exit going SB (or after the last exit going NB). Only seen trucks having to use it. Have always just breezed by it everytime I've going to FL with my folks.
Only trucks are required to stop at Florida Ag. Inspection Stations. This includes rental box trucks though (like a U-haul).
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 17, 2010, 01:23:40 PM
I-10, Colorado River crossing, late December 1998: "Are you bringing fruit or vegetables into California?" I was then eating a carrot, and had the half-eaten carrot in my hand. "No," I said, while chewing it.
You are awesome.
Quote from: wriddle082 on December 17, 2010, 01:30:08 PM
I'm surprised no one has brought up Florida yet. Whenever you enter FL from AL or GA along I-95, I-75, or I-10, they have ag check stations a few miles past the weigh stations. I believe the signs say something to the effect that all vehicles transporting agriculture and aquaculture must stop for inspection. I guess they don't want an infestation of live Maine lobsters!
I remember there being one on I-10 near Live Oak, well east of where I-10 enters Florida.
Quote from: AARoads on December 17, 2010, 11:06:14 PM
Only trucks are required to stop at Florida Ag. Inspection Stations. This includes rental box trucks though (like a U-haul).
except they say "all rental vehicles must stop". I have run them many a time in my rented compact car, figuring there's no way in Hell they could detect the difference between a Chevy Cobalt owned by a private citizen and a Chevy Cobalt owned by the Hertz rental car company.
IIRC, the agricultural inspections stations were put in place to protect California's lucrative fruit and vegetable crops from potentially devastating bugs, flies, critters, etc and they were to be located on each major highway entering California (I-5, I-8, I-10, I-15, I-40, I-80, US 50, US 97, US 101, US 395, etc). These inspection stations have been around for a very long time pre-dating the med-fly crises from the 1980's.
The inspection station on I-80 was recently moved from downtown Truckee (between the Donner Pass Rd and CA-89 interchanges) to the truck scales located a couple of miles east of Truckee. It's a fairly large facility given how much traffic is on I-80 at any given time.
The inspection station of I-15 is located between Baker and Barstow and causes significant delays on I-15 each Sunday as there are a large number of folks returning from a weekend in Vegas. I did remember seeing a project on I-15 to move the inspection station to the Mountain Pass area of I-15. Not sure if that's going to happen though.
My typical experience with the inspection stations on I-80 and I-15 have been nothing (unstaffed), a quick wave through or the guy asking where I was coming from. I can't comment on the whole border patrol thing, Maybe this is common in southern California due it's proximity to the Mexican border.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 17, 2010, 11:13:33 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on December 17, 2010, 01:23:40 PMI-10, Colorado River crossing, late December 1998: "Are you bringing fruit or vegetables into California?" I was then eating a carrot, and had the half-eaten carrot in my hand. "No," I said, while chewing it.
You are awesome.
It's kind of you to say so, but actually I had the carrots in the same bag they had come in from the supermarket, so if they had decided to give me a really hard time, I would have argued that the Privileges and Immunities Clause applies to fruit and vegetables purchased at supermarkets outside California.
I think the agricultural inspection stations are really just another example of security theater. No-one dealing in fruit or vegetables on a commercial basis would be oblivious to the risk of agricultural pests, so importation of fruit fly, etc. into California would almost certainly be a hostile act carried out by agricultural terrorists taking all necessary precautions to avoid being caught at the roadside. It's like the liquids ban on airplanes--no attempts with liquid PETN have been made since 2006 but it is only just now that the British (not the Americans, mind you, but the British) are thinking of removing the 100 mL restriction. We are going down the same direction with underwear explosives, printer cartridges, etc. Security agencies should be thinking ahead instead of letting terrorists set the agenda, but that point seems not to have filtered in.
States like Arizona and Colorado have large truck-gardening sectors but don't engage in agricultural inspections at the border--makes you think, doesn't it?
BTW, if we are to accept
Grapes of Wrath as history (and I have no reason to believe it is inaccurate as regards transcontinental auto travel), border inspection in California dates from the 1930's at least. The Joad family has to stop at Daggett (US 66 or US 466 back then, I-40 now) for inspection. They are also hassled at the border near Needles and on entry to Arizona (also US 66) are told to keep moving until they are out of Arizona. It's the same kind of ethical mindset that thought it was acceptable to direct water cannon at black people for not riding the buses and causing the bus company to lose money.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 18, 2010, 02:21:25 AM
Quote from: AARoads on December 17, 2010, 11:06:14 PM
Only trucks are required to stop at Florida Ag. Inspection Stations. This includes rental box trucks though (like a U-haul).
except they say "all rental vehicles must stop". I have run them many a time in my rented compact car, figuring there's no way in Hell they could detect the difference between a Chevy Cobalt owned by a private citizen and a Chevy Cobalt owned by the Hertz rental car company.
The signs say:
ALL
TRUCKS - TRAILERS
RENTED TRUCKS - TRAILERS
COMMERCIAL - CARGO VANS
NEXT EXIT
As long as you aren't towing a trailer, cars/pickup trucks (rental or not) don't have to stop.
The concept of ag stations doesn't bother me too much. The inland border checkpoints like the one on I-5 between San Diego and Los Angeles make me angry though, even if I've always just been waved through.
Quote from: realjd on December 18, 2010, 10:10:58 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 18, 2010, 02:21:25 AM
Quote from: AARoads on December 17, 2010, 11:06:14 PM
Only trucks are required to stop at Florida Ag. Inspection Stations. This includes rental box trucks though (like a U-haul).
except they say "all rental vehicles must stop". I have run them many a time in my rented compact car, figuring there's no way in Hell they could detect the difference between a Chevy Cobalt owned by a private citizen and a Chevy Cobalt owned by the Hertz rental car company.
The signs say:
ALL
TRUCKS - TRAILERS
RENTED TRUCKS - TRAILERS
COMMERCIAL - CARGO VANS
NEXT EXIT
As long as you aren't towing a trailer, cars/pickup trucks (rental or not) don't have to stop.
The concept of ag stations doesn't bother me too much. The inland border checkpoints like the one on I-5 between San Diego and Los Angeles make me angry though, even if I've always just been waved through.
Aren't the ones on I-5 also to help secure Camp Pendleton, if needed?
Mike
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 17, 2010, 01:59:44 PM
I-40 is well north of CA-62. wtf is the border patrol doing there, then?
Clearly they must have dropped all pretences of operating in relation to any border.
California has had fruit inspections forever, I remember them from the 50's. Arizona used to have them as well, they have a big citrus crop. There is one standing on I-40 near Holbrook, although it is used as a truck scales today. Not to be confused with many US Border Patrol inspection stations placed all over the Southwest along interstate and US highways. I have always wondered about the constituionality of those stations, they wave you thru quickly if you look "American " enough. If you don't, well that's another story.
Ferrets Anonymous (yes, for reals) has a page with instructions on how to avoid the checkpoints where possible, with maps:
http://www.ferretsanonymous.com/checkpoints/checkpoints.html
What the heck is wrong with ferrets going to california?
Ferrets are supposedly an invasive species, which may have been true when the law was passed in the 30s, but as long as they're neutered they can't possibly be invasive
Quote from: AZDude on December 18, 2010, 08:01:28 PM
What the heck is wrong with ferrets going to california?
The simple answer is, it is against the law to keep ferrets as pets in the state of California and as Corco said, they are supposedly an invasive species.