After reading the posts about milemarkers (I may use the term "milepost" sometimes because I work on a railroad), I think this topic should have its own thread. I think Louisiana gets it right by 1) posting them on all state-maintained routes, 2) not resetting them at parish or town limits, and 3) tries to keep them on these roads by replacing the missing ones every few years. :clap: However, when it comes to putting them on US 80, they never seem to put the new ones back in the same place. :pan: I think if they would use the bigger signposts instead of the smaller ones (1.18 lb/ft vs 2.2 lb/ft), the mileposts would stand a better chance of staying put. :nod:
Washington State does it best, IMO. Nothing complicated- milemarkers are posted every mile on every route, always going west to east or south to north. The milemarkers are the big ones that are standard on freeways on all roads, on concurrencies the lowest numbered route of the highest class always gets to keep its mileposts (I think there is one exception to this- I want to say the SR 9/SR 542 concurrency uses SR 542s mileposts, but I could be wrong). It can't really be done any better than that.
Quote from: corco on January 23, 2011, 05:48:49 PM
Nothing complicated- milemarkers are posted every mile on every route
Same thing for New Jersey. You can find mile markers on mostly every route, including county routes.
^^^County routes also?? :wow: That's very interesting. Does the state or counties maintain those?
To oversimplify, the 5xx county routes in New Jersey are state-aid type routes.
Quote from: corco on January 23, 2011, 05:48:49 PM
Washington State does it best, IMO. Nothing complicated- milemarkers are posted every mile on every route, always going west to east or south to north. The milemarkers are the big ones that are standard on freeways on all roads, on concurrencies the lowest numbered route of the highest class always gets to keep its mileposts (I think there is one exception to this- I want to say the SR 9/SR 542 concurrency uses SR 542s mileposts, but I could be wrong). It can't really be done any better than that.
Pretty much the same as Nebraska does too. The only difference is that I think the milemarkers on interstates are somewhat larger in size than the ones on other highways.
Nebraska's also aren't quite the standard milemarkers
On most roads and non Douglas/Lancaster/Sarpy/maybe a couple other eastern county interstates, you have this type of milemarker (although, yeah, a bit larger on freeways)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fnebraskamilemarker.jpg&hash=e90561ca7ee6c2cacbf5920af8207ce67749d738)
Although in Lincoln/Omaha you get these every .1 miles, which is even better
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Flancastercty.jpg&hash=b9f8f5d38c949e2d29a4d7ef3bd7597d583c0e40)
Whereas Washington's look like this (usually independently mounted though)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fwashingtonmilepost.jpg&hash=99f8ae07fe2876b05e996bb6511d57574ea806df)
I'd say if Nebraska went to the MILE milepost which is just a bit more legible from a distance and then did what they do in Lincoln/Omaha, they'd be perfect- alternatively if Washington adopted those 1/10 milemarkers with shield in urban areas, they'd be perfect too.
Which....maybe that's Colorado!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fco%2F76%2F2to85%2F2.jpg&hash=0c21d8844a96852348c29e9d0529ee05f1261df5) (ignore the error)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fcoloradomilepost.jpg&hash=3f4ba87c7e49089776fc2ceb43df4d75bd01c0a1)
Also, I think I'm wrong on the mileposts being freeway sized off-freeway in Washington.
.1 mile granularity seems to be a bit overkill. I think if they did .5, they could use bigger, more legible mileposts and still save metal.
Quote from: corco on January 23, 2011, 10:28:52 PM
Nebraska's also aren't quite the standard milemarkers
On most roads and non Douglas/Lancaster/Sarpy/maybe a couple other eastern county interstates, you have this type of milemarker (although, yeah, a bit larger on freeways)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fnebraskamilemarker.jpg&hash=e90561ca7ee6c2cacbf5920af8207ce67749d738)
This is almost what they looked like in Louisiana when I was a kid (late 70s-early 80s)! :nod:
Most states that use fractional mileposts place them every .2 miles per the MUTCD.
Kansas uses mileposts similar to the non-Interstate Nebraska one shown above on their non-interstate routes.
QuoteMost states that use fractional mileposts place them every .2 miles per the MUTCD.
Is it .2? That sounds right for Nebraska, now that I think about it.
QuoteKansas uses mileposts similar to the non-Interstate Nebraska one shown above on their non-interstate routes.
As does Wyoming- they're also still on I-25 north of Casper for some reason
Quote from: froggie on January 23, 2011, 07:46:37 PM
To oversimplify, the 5xx county routes in New Jersey are state-aid type routes.
When I was a kid in New Jersey developing an obsession with maps (in the early '70s), the 500 series were a subset of county roads identified in the legend on some maps as "state secondary roads." They were maintained by the counties (I believe) but numbered according to a statewide system, to supplement the state highways. A 500-series road can be quite long, by New Jersey standards anyway, because it won't change its number at county lines. Other county roads, in most of the state, were not numbered in those days. The usual marker for a secondary road was a white rectangle, black border and number, name of the county above the number and the word "county" below it.
Starting, very approximately, 1980, all county roads are posted (although the counties closest to New York did it relatively late and relatively inconsistently - I don't navigate by them because you can't rely on them being marked), with numbers in the 600s (700s as well in the largest counties) - except Bergen and Monmouth counties, which numbered their county roads even before the 500 series existed and use low numbers. And the blue-pentagon marker is standard for all of these now, 500-series and otherwise. Incidentally, no state route can have a number above 499, and 500-series numbers (generally) won't be duplicated in different parts of the state, so the state and state-secondary series compliment each other in that way too. A 600- or 700-series number can show up in multiple places in different counties. Although even these tend to keep the same number when they cross county lines. But they won't run for 50 or 60 miles, which is not at all unusual for the 500 series.
More than you wanted to know, I'm sure, and I can conceive of a chunk of this post being moved....:-/
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 23, 2011, 11:05:21 PM
.1 mile granularity seems to be a bit overkill. I think if they did .5, they could use bigger, more legible mileposts and still save metal.
It would be even worse if it was tenths of a kilometer. :-)
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 23, 2011, 11:27:36 PM
Most states that use fractional mileposts place them every .2 miles per the MUTCD.
Kansas uses mileposts similar to the non-Interstate Nebraska one shown above on their non-interstate routes.
Really? I can't think of many places in the Northeast I've seen them at 0.2 mile intervals. It's usually every tenth, sometimes every half. And when did we start doing fractions anyway? When I was growing up - [lapses into reminiscence mode again] - they were usually every mile; every half in Delaware (I figured because it was so small....) and tenths on the New Jersey Turnpike.
Indiana generally has milemarkers for every mile on interstates while it depends on state and federal highways. Those milemarkers are small white on blue signs that sometimes only appear on bridges and in this case, only as a direct point of reference for that bridge. Still, the white on blue milemarkers are sometimes there just to be a milemarker, but it varies on the highway. In Indianapolis, Northwest Indiana, Fort Wayne, Evansville, and Kokomo you do see the .2 mile white on blue milemarker signs and in some places (newly rebuilt highways) there are .1 milemarkers appearing.
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 24, 2011, 12:56:50 AM
Indiana generally has milemarkers for every mile on interstates while it depends on state and federal highways. Those milemarkers are small white on blue signs that sometimes only appear on bridges and in this case, only as a direct point of reference for that bridge. Still, the white on blue milemarkers are sometimes there just to be a milemarker, but it varies on the highway. In Indianapolis, Northwest Indiana, Fort Wayne, Evansville, and Kokomo you do see the .2 mile white on blue milemarker signs and in some places (newly rebuilt highways) there are .1 milemarkers appearing.
The only caveat with most of these markers is that they aren't updated should a state road either be rerouted or truncated. For the most part, the markers are there to correspond with INDOT's roadway referencing manual, which can be downloaded from INDOT's "Manuals" page under the "Roadway Referencing System" header (http://www.in.gov/indot/2376.htm).
Alabama does the same thing as Washington State and Louisiana with their mile markers. They have MILE on the top and then the mile number below it. Alabama doesn't have .2 or .5 mile posts as far as I know.
Tennessee has mile markers on non-interstate routes that reset at the county line. The mile marker will have the mile on it and then the state route number on the bottom (for US highways, the secret state route number is used).
^^^
In urban areas, Tennessee also has the blue signs with the small icons. They are placed either one or two tenths apart.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4049%2F4317680632_8b378a65a8.jpg&hash=a549b8d00c3dc8d629fa60ff192f9622c83af6cb) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyace/4317680632/)
20090831 I-65 N @ Exit 67-2C2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyace/4317680632/) by mightyace (http://www.flickr.com/people/mightyace/), on Flickr
Check this out for a representative sample of an interesting variety of mile marker along I-65 south of Nashville.
http://www.millenniumhwy.net/2010_Nashville/Pages/233.html
^^^
I have pictures of those on the shoulder signs as well, possibly even the same one. I just haven't uploaded them to Flickr yet.
They seem unusual as I don't recall seeing the on the shoulder ones anywhere else. Everywhere else I've seen them, they're only on the center Jersey barrier or in the median.
QuoteReally? I can't think of many places in the Northeast I've seen them at 0.2 mile intervals.
Newly-resigned sections of Interstate in Vermont now have them.
New Hampshire has been religious about using 0.2 milemarkers, even on non-Interstates (US 2, US 302, and NH 9 all have them).
Albany-area freeways have the fractional milemarkers, but I don't remember if they're 0.1 or 0.2.
Missouri has 0.2 mile markers on all interstates and some US and state-route freeways. They are signed on the shoulder.
PennDOT has been placing them at 0.2 intervals along I-80, I'd say it about 3/4 complete at this point. The signs for the 0.2 markers seem to big to me though.
I know the trend is to use those .2 markers in more urban areas, but why is that? I presume the purpose for those is that if there's an incident it will be easier to locate the problem, but it seems to me that an urban area is going to have other telling details about location whereas if one is broken down I-80 in the middle of Wyoming and they weren't aware of what milepost they were near, it could really be a challenge to identify one's location. (Couple that with the fact that if it's wintertime and windy, you'd have to be really, really stupid to get out of your car to find a milepost)
Here's a mile marker on the NY 5 Camillus Bypass near Syracuse:
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/ny_5/wmile.jpg I don't do hotlinking. Copy and paste this link.
It's 4.6 miles from the beginning of the freeway. Signs like this are also on NY 695 and I-690. They were installed around 2000 or 2001 if I remember correctly. I would guess the sign is as wide as a reassurance marker, and about twice as high. The reference marker above the sign is 8 by 10 inches.
EDIT: Thanks, Alps. I wondered why it only worked once.
Quote from: mightyace on January 24, 2011, 10:27:32 AM
^^^
In urban areas, Tennessee also has the blue signs with the small icons. They are placed either one or two tenths apart.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4049%2F4317680632_8b378a65a8.jpg&hash=a549b8d00c3dc8d629fa60ff192f9622c83af6cb) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyace/4317680632/)
20090831 I-65 N @ Exit 67-2C2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyace/4317680632/) by mightyace (http://www.flickr.com/people/mightyace/), on Flickr
So does the rest of Ohio, except unlike the Cincinnati area, we only have them at 2/10 of a mile. Boo! :thumbdown:
Quote from: corco on January 23, 2011, 05:48:49 PM
Washington State does it best, IMO. Nothing complicated- milemarkers are posted every mile on every route, always going west to east or south to north. The milemarkers are the big ones that are standard on freeways on all roads, on concurrencies the lowest numbered route of the highest class always gets to keep its mileposts (I think there is one exception to this- I want to say the SR 9/SR 542 concurrency uses SR 542s mileposts, but I could be wrong). It can't really be done any better than that.
I agree that Washington does it excellently and consistently. I just noticed yesterday though that where they've installed the variable speed limits on I-5 northbound, they've gotten rid of the regular mileposts on that section, and put them on the sign bridges with the speed limit signs instead. (The difference being that they're not spaced a mile apart, seemed to be 0.4-0.6 miles apart.)
As an aside though, SR 9/542 is the only concurrency between two
state routes I can think of off the top of my head, and I can confirm that it follows 542's mileposts. So higher level for sure, but I don't think lower number is a rule.
QuoteAs an aside though, SR 9/542 is the only concurrency between two state routes I can think of off the top of my head, and I can confirm that it follows 542's mileposts. So higher level for sure, but I don't think lower number is a rule.
There's several others- 20/21, 509/516, 509/99, 512/161, 161/167, 9/530, 9/20, and 260/261 off the top of my head, and I'm sure there's a bunch more.
I drove every mile of state highway in Washington from 2007-2008 and was paying very careful attention to mileposting (because that was and is my point of reference for where reassurance shields were- I snap the shield, then take a snap of the next milepost, especially in rural areas where there aren't other telling details in the background) and while my memory is slowly fading, I'm 99% sure that 9/542 is the only non-freeway where the lower number gets snubbed because I remember it being a real outlier and thinking "WTF?" and then going back to try to figure out why, but SR 9 existed. No good reason, to my knowledge. SR 9 has existed just as long as 542 has, along that same routing.
The other one is that on the 512 freeway, SR 161 takes 512's mileposts where they concur, but I'd consider 512 to be a higher class of road because it is freeway for its entire existence and 161 is only a freeway where it overlaps 512.
QuoteI agree that Washington does it excellently and consistently. I just noticed yesterday though that where they've installed the variable speed limits on I-5 northbound, they've gotten rid of the regular mileposts on that section, and put them on the sign bridges with the speed limit signs instead. (The difference being that they're not spaced a mile apart, seemed to be 0.4-0.6 miles apart.)
Now that's pretty cool- I haven't been on I-5 since they did all that.
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2011, 12:18:20 PMAlbany-area freeways have the fractional milemarkers, but I don't remember if they're 0.1 or 0.2.
I remembered to look when on the Northway (I-87) this morning. They're at 0.1 intervals at least near the southern end. They have the word "Mile" then the mile number in white on green, the tenths are below that in green on white.
There are a few freeways in New Hampshire that use these rather large milemarkers:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_ZkmN2RrOJxw%2FSkGVU9pBWHI%2FAAAAAAAAI9E%2F4otYm5DkUfU%2Fs640%2FIMG_6059.JPG&hash=9e085ff5010e43c729e3ad8b847a27d575956c78)
They are installed at every 0.1 mile. A shield for every marker seems to be a bit of an overkill. Although it's hard to see, but just beyond the Junction NH 127 sign, there is a small mile marker with a shield on top which NHDOT likes to install every .5 miles on the more minor roads:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_ZkmN2RrOJxw%2FTFDIRwGASbI%2FAAAAAAAAgOs%2Fbh7ip4x577c%2Fs640%2FIMG_8912.JPG&hash=6f4e01bcd90550751f14d460f5db2058da32dbd0)
There are no milemarkers on I-10 east of I-510 all the way to the Mississippi state line. I'm patiently letting them finish building the Twinspan before I contact the state.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11081/1133723-56.stm (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11081/1133723-56.stm)
While this article is short on details, It sounds like PennDOT cares enough about accuracy to go thru and relocate Parkway East MM's. (They replaced them just a couple of years ago with the I-376 extension)
Massachusetts is in the every-0.2 mile category, with a shield-replica marker every mile.
Quote from: SidS1045 on March 22, 2011, 03:29:42 PM
Massachusetts is in the every-0.2 mile category, with a shield-replica marker every mile.
This is quite new for MA, and they cropped up quickly over the entire state. Oddly enough, the only limited access highway left in MAthat still has the traditional smaller Mile marker w/out shields and without interim .10's markers is the Mass Pike.
^^^
I guess that will change soon since the Mass Pike has been folded into the state's DOT.
Louisiana is now installing these "deluxe" milemarkers. They're becoming widespread in the Greater New Orleans area. Direction on top, small complete shield with "Interstate" in the shield, below that "MILE" and below that and horizontal the mile number.
Texas only uses mile markers on interstates. On all other roads they use tiny "reference markers" that are only intended for internal DOT use.
These do not start with 1. I haven't bothered to look onto what the pattern is.
Something I've wondered about...what happens to the mile or reference markers when a road is realigned, adding distance between two markers.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fonlinemanuals.txdot.gov%2Ftxdotmanuals%2Fsfb%2Fimages%2F4-21_Texas_Reference_Marker_Assembly.JPG&hash=16cfeee01d1281ec68ec10d0ecfb39cb41b9289f)
The Texas Reference Marker System is grid-based, so the little white-on-green numbers attached to route confirmation assemblies are grid references, not milepoints.
http://onlinemanuals.txdot.gov/txdotmanuals/trm/trm.pdf
I don't know in detail how relocations are handled. For non-Interstates in Texas for which the reference markers are used, matters are straightforward because the change in length of the road is unimportant--the only thing that matters is whether the centerline moves to a different grid square. I suspect that on Interstates resurveying of the centerline rarely happens because, unless the new alignment is quite far away from the old alignment, the difference in length between old and new alignments is too small to matter for the navigational purposes for which mileposting systems are typically used.
Wrong thread, perhaps, but can anyone explain why SH 130 east of Austin has exit numbers in the 400's?
Chapter 7 of the TRM manual, which explains the grid system, seems to hint at the answer. The zero points for each grid axis are set at the extreme northern and western points of the state (basically, southern border of the Oklahoma panhandle and El Paso) and the first marker available for assignment on each axis is 010. On the north-south axis marker numbers increase going south, and on the east-west axis they increase going east. Routes are assigned markers on one axis or the other according to their "book" direction of travel.
My guess is that SH 130 around Austin has exit numbers in the 400's because:
* It has milepoint-based exit numbers
* SH 130 is treated as a north-south route for purposes of location reference
* The beginning (northern terminus) of SH 130 is about 400 miles south of the southern border of the Oklahoma panhandle
If I am right, exit numbers on SH 130 should actually increase going north to south (the opposite of the usual direction as mandated in the MUTCD).
I'm kind of fond of these.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_1270.jpg&hash=6b4fdecfd0f9352971dc06de20d81d51e477cc4c)
No silly tenths of a mile, easier to comprehend quarters of a mile.
^ I'm certainly not fond of the mix of font sizes though.
It's interesting, in that this design with a fraction does actually seem a bit better than the standard design with decimal points, especially with how the decimal numbers are on a line separated by a horizontal line. But if one is using mileposts for navigation and reference within a vehicle, decimals may be slightly easier to follow than the fractions.
Do they even bother with teaching fractions in skool anymore? They haven't for a long time in most of the rest of the world due to a lack of need.
My thought:
(Motorist in distress, to dispatcher) "The sign says 'one two one' with a 'one slash four' below that".
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on October 09, 2011, 12:48:22 PM
Do they even bother with teaching fractions in skool anymore? They haven't for a long time in most of the rest of the world due to a lack of need.
My thought:
(Motorist in distress, to dispatcher) "The sign says 'one two one' with a 'one slash four' below that".
Mike
Yes, they still teach fractions, and they're a damn bit better for highway use than decimals (and work better than the damn French system).
1 1/4 MILES is much easier to discern when the slash falls off. 1.25 MILES becomes 125 MILES without the dot.
No one I know of (roadgeek and non-roadgeek) mistakes what the sign says - "one twenty-one and a quarter".
Quote from: lamsalfl on October 08, 2011, 12:47:30 PM
Louisiana is now installing these "deluxe" milemarkers. They're becoming widespread in the Greater New Orleans area. Direction on top, small complete shield with "Interstate" in the shield, below that "MILE" and below that and horizontal the mile number.
The rest of LA is starting to install them. I saw them on I-20 and I-49 on my way to Alexandria last weekend, 49 only had them in Caddo and Desoto parish though with work starting in Natchitoches parish
Missouri posts them every 1/10 mile on Interstates and major expressways like US 65 and US 71 in the Kansas City area. MoDOT calls them Emergency Markers (http://www.modotblog.com/2011/01/emergency-markers-make-for-still-merry.html)
This is a pretty standard Florida combo mile marker with call box:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=26.963809,-80.17112&spn=0.015377,0.027466&t=m&z=16&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=26.963656,-80.171031&panoid=2UHTZmMUwMv0Q_PSvUlNcA&cbp=12,358.73,,0,2.25
They are the standard on most interstate highways. When they don't use those, they use a generic green sign with MILE on the top and the number arranged vertically below it. You'll see that style on a few state and US highways like US1 through the Keys but most aren't mileposted.
The call box markers as seen above aren't religiously placed every mile. Where it makes sense based on on/off ramps, they'll often place them at other odd distances and list them as something like "Mile 197.3" with the number entirely on one line.
Quote from: US71 on October 11, 2011, 01:53:51 PM
Missouri posts them every 1/10 mile on Interstates and major expressways like US 65 and US 71 in the Kansas City area. MoDOT calls them Emergency Markers (http://www.modotblog.com/2011/01/emergency-markers-make-for-still-merry.html)
The MUTCD term is "Enhanced Reference Location Markers" (or "Intermediate Enhanced Reference Location Markers", for the ones with decimals between exact mileposts).
I have seen them on US 31 in Indiana, that are blue, with a tiny US 31 shield on them in the median from Indy to Kokomo.
US 1 has them from the Florida Turnpike to Key West, as there are no major crossroads between these two points. Its the only non freeway route in Florida (although I think to have seen them on US 27 from Halieha to the Palm Beach Counly Line) to have them.
QuoteMissouri posts them every 1/10 mile on Interstates and major expressways like US 65 and US 71 in the Kansas City area. MoDOT calls them Emergency Markers
This has kept me awake at night for years, so do you have a theory why U.S. 169 immediately north of downtown KC has miles posted in the 100s even though it has just entered the state from Kansas?
How about when a divided highway makes its way through mountainous terrain, such that one roadway splits off from the other for a while and the distance traversed by one is slightly off from the distance traversed by the other?
Example:
I-8 through Arizona.
From the Foothills Blvd bridge near Yuma, Google maps measures 16.5 miles to the William St bridge in Welton.
Going the opposite direction, Google maps measures 16.6 miles.
How are mileposts handled in this type of situation.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on December 03, 2011, 10:54:14 AM
QuoteMissouri posts them every 1/10 mile on Interstates and major expressways like US 65 and US 71 in the Kansas City area. MoDOT calls them Emergency Markers
This has kept me awake at night for years, so do you have a theory why U.S. 169 immediately north of downtown KC has miles posted in the 100s even though it has just entered the state from Kansas?
Possibly to distinguish between it and every
other numbered highway that just entered the state from Kansas?
Quote from: kphoger on December 03, 2011, 01:38:16 PM
How about when a divided highway makes its way through mountainous terrain, such that one roadway splits off from the other for a while and the distance traversed by one is slightly off from the distance traversed by the other?
Example:
I-8 through Arizona.
From the Foothills Blvd bridge near Yuma, Google maps measures 16.5 miles to the William St bridge in Welton.
Going the opposite direction, Google maps measures 16.6 miles.
How are mileposts handled in this type of situation.
Don't know about other states, but in NY we just fudge them.
http://www.empirestateroads.com/rm/
QuoteQuoteQuoteMissouri posts them every 1/10 mile on Interstates and major expressways like US 65 and US 71 in the Kansas City area. MoDOT calls them Emergency Markers
This has kept me awake at night for years, so do you have a theory why U.S. 169 immediately north of downtown KC has miles posted in the 100s even though it has just entered the state from Kansas?
Possibly to distinguish between it and every other numbered highway that just entered the state from Kansas?
Not sure that's an issue since 169 runs separate from I-29/35, and it doesn't have interchanges with numbered exits. I guess my question is, where is mile 0? IIRC I once looked at the mileage for U.S. 71 to see if 169 picked that up (like Arizona would do) and it didn't match. Nor does it seem they started with mile 100, and 169 doesn't occur in Missouri anywhere south of there. Since I haven't driven 169 north of KC, I wonder if the sequence in that southerly segment continues.
QuoteHow about when a divided highway makes its way through mountainous terrain, such that one roadway splits off from the other for a while and the distance traversed by one is slightly off from the distance traversed by the other?
...
How are mileposts handled in this type of situation.
That's a good question since there are a number of highways in the west I'm aware of with carriageways on totally different alignments. Another would be AZ-87 from Scottsdale up to Payson (also on the "wrong-way carriageway" list).
One example not involving mountainous terrain is U.S. 50 through Rocky Ford CO. The route is carried on parallel one-way streets, and the eastbound route carries mileposts for U.S. 50, while the westbound route has mileposts starting at 0 (increasing westbound) at the point where the road splits. In the Colorado state route log, it is shown as a separate route. Any differences in distance between the two roadways is pretty minimal, though.
Quote from: kphoger on December 03, 2011, 01:38:16 PMHow about when a divided highway makes its way through mountainous terrain, such that one roadway splits off from the other for a while and the distance traversed by one is slightly off from the distance traversed by the other?
States have different approaches to handling this problem, but in Pennsylvania the rule has traditionally been that the line of the eastbound or northbound carriageway is the reference line for milepointing and corresponding mileposts on the other carriageway are located directly across the center of the road. This means that a westbound or southbound carriageway in Pennsylvania can have "long" or "short" miles.
The milepointing has little relevance for construction because typically each carriageway will be surveyed on its own line, with its own stationing, when the two are separated by a large or variable amount.
Quote from: kphoger on December 03, 2011, 01:38:16 PM
How about when a divided highway makes its way through mountainous terrain, such that one roadway splits off from the other for a while and the distance traversed by one is slightly off from the distance traversed by the other?
Example:
I-8 through Arizona.
From the Foothills Blvd bridge near Yuma, Google maps measures 16.5 miles to the William St bridge in Welton.
Going the opposite direction, Google maps measures 16.6 miles.
How are mileposts handled in this type of situation.
I am curious about how I-24 across Monteagle in TN is handled with this situation. May be worth a trip over there to see how the mileposts are treated.
I like the California postmile markers. http://www.cahighways.org/num-postmiles.html
They give so much information -- county, route number, distance down to the 1/100th of a mile.
Here is a pic of a milepost near Kokomo, IN on US 31 that is blue and has tenths of a mile on it as well as a tiny US 31 shield.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/6463250505/in/photostream/lightbox/
Quote from: roadman65 on December 05, 2011, 08:47:09 PM
Here is a pic of a milepost near Kokomo, IN on US 31 that is blue and has tenths of a mile on it as well as a tiny US 31 shield.
I'd have to check my pictures, but I recall a milemarker along US 31 that had a "blue" US 31 shield, enclosed by a white square, on top of the blue milemarker.
I think in Connecticut, it may be done by district. Along I-95 from Greenwich to New Haven, you'll see 2/10 mile markers along that whole stretch. You don't have any of them on I-91 for the whole 58 miles of the road in this state (New Haven to Enfield). As for I-84, you'll get a few in sections, roughly somewhere between Danbury and Newtown, up until much of Waterbury. I've never seen mile markers in Connecticut on US or state highways which aren't already multiplexed on an interstate.
Those signs on I-65 in Tennessee look like the ones I saw along I-94 in Wisconsin last time I was there. The stretch of I-94/US-41 has them every tenth of a mile. Perhaps it's part of that massive reconstruction.
I like the West Virginia milemakers.
Quote from: kkt on December 05, 2011, 02:36:27 PM
I like the California postmile markers. http://www.cahighways.org/num-postmiles.html
They give so much information -- county, route number, distance down to the 1/100th of a mile.
Nevada uses the same system, although NDOT just calls them mileposts and not postmiles. They are using two-letter county abbreviations and no mile prefixes.
The drawback to this system for longer routes is that you cannot tell overall mileage if the route traverses more than one county. In Nevada on I-80, this has led to the posting of both Nevada-style milepost panels and standard MUTCD mileposts (due to the requirement of milepost signs on Interstates).
Quote from: corco on January 23, 2011, 11:36:14 PM
QuoteMost states that use fractional mileposts place them every .2 miles per the MUTCD.
Is it .2? That sounds right for Nebraska, now that I think about it.
Most states that use intermediate reference markers (mileposts) have standardized on .2 mile spacing between the signs, but this interval is not an MUTCD requirement.
Per the 2009 MUTCD - Sections 2H.05 and 2H-06, Intermediate Reference Location Signs may be installed "at one tenth of a mile intervals, or at some other regular spacing."
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 06, 2011, 02:32:29 PM
I think in Connecticut, it may be done by district. Along I-95 from Greenwich to New Haven, you'll see 2/10 mile markers along that whole stretch. You don't have any of them on I-91 for the whole 58 miles of the road in this state (New Haven to Enfield). As for I-84, you'll get a few in sections, roughly somewhere between Danbury and Newtown, up until much of Waterbury. I've never seen mile markers in Connecticut on US or state highways which aren't already multiplexed on an interstate.
West of Branford, I-95 has a strange set of mile markers - narrow and taller than usual ones, with no mention of the word "MILE".
CT 2, CT 8, CT 9, and CT 11 all have mile markers.
I-384, I-291, and I-691 lack them as do US 6 and US 7. I-395 is the only 3DI in CT with mile markers.
No non-expressway routes have mile markers.
Quote from: Brandon on October 08, 2011, 07:52:21 PM
No silly tenths of a mile, easier to comprehend quarters of a mile.
Tenths of a mile are not silly at all. Ever see a vehicle odometer showing fractions?
Quote from: SidS1045 on December 16, 2011, 10:41:01 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 08, 2011, 07:52:21 PM
No silly tenths of a mile, easier to comprehend quarters of a mile.
Tenths of a mile are not silly at all. Ever see a vehicle odometer showing fractions?
Silly me, I was under the impression milemarkers were for noting one's location, not matching them to a vehicle's odometer.
One of my cars has an odometer without tenths, so...yeah.
This is what México does every five kilometers:
For intermediate kilometer posts, the route shield is omitted; there are very few stand-alone assurance markers.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1092.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi410%2Fkphoger%2FKMpost.png&hash=f8607f58b0bbf0feec11787a46a1ec2b82dd8925)
Sometimes there are discrepancies. I could swear I've seen one on highway 85D marked for highway 40 somewhere between Monterrey and Nuevo Laredo, but I can't find it right now on GMSV; I think it was at least 50 miels from highway 40. Some highways guide-signed as federal routes are km-posted as state routes, as I assume they actually are on paper....
NYSDOT measures for milemarkers from south to north or from the west to east (depending on the orientation of the highway), so the milemarkers in that direction are true to distance (with a tolerance for obstructions at the precise point) and the markers in the opposite direction approximate the location. I believe this applies to both the milemarkers used on the interstates and the reference markers used on all state maintained roadways.
The one thing that makes me crazy about the NYSDOT regions lately is that they're marking short-run freeways with a start of "mile 0" instead of the actual mileage in the state. For example, the last time I checked the milemarkers on the expressway portion of NY Route 5 in Buffalo, mile "0" was around the Chautauqua-Erie County line instead of the Pa. line, and then the freeway portion of NY Route 5 in Syracuse started at mile "0" at it's junction with NY Route 173. If/when NYSDOT implements distance-based exit numbering on all freeways as mandated by the MUTCD, this is going to create problems.
On the other hand, NYSDOT just put new milemarkers on Interstate and NY Route 690 and marked it as one continuous route, with the "beginning" of the route being the northern end of NY Route 690, though the current sequential exit numbers start at the junction of Interstates 90 and 690 and NY Route 690, with the exits on NY Route 690 still being unnumbered.
J.P. Wing
NYSDOT seems content to pretend that that clause of the MUTCD doesn't exist. They haven't even updated their website to say that it's now mandatory. New signs on NY 104 and the Parkway have no exit numbers to speak of. The planned exit numbers for I-781 are sequential. They're doing everything they can to maximize the cost to switch when they inevitably have to switch, despite claiming the only reason they haven't switched is funding reasons.
Quote from: shadyjay on December 16, 2011, 09:24:26 PM
West of Branford, I-95 has a strange set of mile markers - narrow and taller than usual ones, with no mention of the word "MILE".
CT 2, CT 8, CT 9, and CT 11 all have mile markers.
I-384, I-291, and I-691 lack them as do US 6 and US 7.
Not quite. The Brookfield bypass (US7) has a couple of mile markers posted on it.
But yeah, Connecticut is very stingy on mile markers.