AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: MDOTFanFB on January 29, 2011, 05:06:32 PM

Title: A mix of old and new
Post by: MDOTFanFB on January 29, 2011, 05:06:32 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=42.494568,-83.117216&spn=0,0.02738&z=16&layer=c&cbll=42.494567,-83.116979&panoid=XRekyhb08emkL0mePyFC2A&cbp=12,224.3,,1,-6.72 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=42.494568,-83.117216&spn=0,0.02738&z=16&layer=c&cbll=42.494567,-83.116979&panoid=XRekyhb08emkL0mePyFC2A&cbp=12,224.3,,1,-6.72)

The Google car happened to pass by during the brief time both of these signs existed. The older sign is to the right, while the new (Clearview  :banghead: ) sign is to the left. This is at I-75 at exit 62 in Royal Oak, MI.

Post any other pictures you may have that have both old and new signs within the same pic.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: CL on January 29, 2011, 09:09:54 PM
I actually encountered this yesterday in Davis County (bear in mind that the two are only five or so years apart in age):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5213%2F5399272715_d9c1903d65_o.jpg&hash=a6c20d05f175e0edb64694f35d0af0126842dc33)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: hbelkins on January 29, 2011, 09:29:01 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2Fnew_signs_ky_2007%2Fnew_signs_ky_2007-Images%2F0.jpg&hash=f5d249097ad9d33dc3980b3acca863c34fb15ad3)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2Fnew_signs_ky_2007%2Fnew_signs_ky_2007-Images%2F1.jpg&hash=ce88e132638210784bd42598c5e018c19d8722d2)

I also had someone send me photos of new and old signs for the KY 418 exit on I-75 in Fayette County.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: Michael on January 30, 2011, 12:30:09 AM
Not a new sign, but Google finally updated their map data late last year to show the new alignment of US 15 from Tioga, PA to Watson Creek Road (http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=41.96868,-77.101707&spn=0.136822,0.338173&t=h&z=12).  The aerial imagery still shows the old alignment.  The most recent NYSGIS aerial imagery (which Google uses) from that area is from 2007.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: Michael in Philly on January 30, 2011, 09:46:17 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 29, 2011, 09:29:01 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2Fnew_signs_ky_2007%2Fnew_signs_ky_2007-Images%2F0.jpg&hash=f5d249097ad9d33dc3980b3acca863c34fb15ad3)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2Fnew_signs_ky_2007%2Fnew_signs_ky_2007-Images%2F1.jpg&hash=ce88e132638210784bd42598c5e018c19d8722d2)

I also had someone send me photos of new and old signs for the KY 418 exit on I-75 in Fayette County.

A peeve:  does that "south" apply to both Ky. 1958 and Truck Ky. 627 or only the latter?  And if the sign on the gantry is the newer one, they've made it worse.

They used to have limitations like that sit above the shield(s) they applied to, even if that entailed repeating them, unless there was only one route shield on the sign.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: 74/171FAN on January 30, 2011, 11:57:11 AM
Does an older exit tab with the new sign count?  I know I've seen worse with VDOT but I don't have any photos of those.  (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi622.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt304%2F24DIDNOTWIN%2FI-95SOUTH25MILESNORTHOFWASHINGTONSTANDWYTHESTEXIT52.jpg&hash=6f38766d8f77c7019e04a405b9ed77d6629cc7d5)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: MDOTFanFB on January 30, 2011, 11:59:35 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on January 30, 2011, 11:57:11 AM
Does an older exit tab with the new sign count?  I know I've seen worse with VDOT but I don't have any photos of those.  (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi622.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt304%2F24DIDNOTWIN%2FI-95SOUTH25MILESNORTHOFWASHINGTONSTANDWYTHESTEXIT52.jpg&hash=6f38766d8f77c7019e04a405b9ed77d6629cc7d5)

What were they thinking? That Clearview sign is lit at night even though it's reflective? (facepalm)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: US71 on January 30, 2011, 12:01:55 PM
Old and New?
Does this count? ;)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3074%2F2640111357_aebd087c69_z_d.jpg&hash=084e514be08f7dff133d99f2bd7bad4a2c1f4f9f)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3618%2F3677851907_91629b5889_z_d.jpg&hash=5092ef57333c6e4115f7258eb6e2c771ebf223cf)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: CL on January 30, 2011, 12:20:34 PM
Quote from: MDOTFanFB on January 30, 2011, 11:59:35 AM
What were they thinking? That Clearview sign is lit at night even though it's reflective? (facepalm)

Utah does that with ALL its (1990s and newer) overhead signs in Salt Lake City, although the lights point downward instead of upward. I think it's actually a nice touch - you have the reflectivity there in case the lights don't turn on, and the lights help make the signs stand out.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: vdeane on January 30, 2011, 12:32:46 PM
Here's one from I-490 reconstruction:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_6zDqXUkKvc0/TRJ6vR2w2VI/AAAAAAAAF2I/7Tc62JTvd9c/s400/100_2651.JPG)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on January 30, 2011, 01:41:40 PM
Quote from: MDOTFanFB on January 30, 2011, 11:59:35 AM
What were they thinking? That Clearview sign is lit at night even though it's reflective? (facepalm)

VDOT reuses old overhead gantries, so it tends not to remove the lights. Not all of them are lit.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: Duke87 on January 30, 2011, 04:22:04 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg838.imageshack.us%2Fimg838%2F9813%2Fdscn6688a.jpg&hash=940e372f8e417076b1c4dfc0f961150e88b5a2ee)

The silly part about the new signs is that they bothered to put "I-278 east to I-95 north" instead of just "I-95 north". I mean yes, technically, there is still some mainline left to 278 here, but it merges into 95 half a mile ahead, with no other options along the way. Yay for pointless clutter to make things technically correct?

The sillier part of this particular assembly is that both of those gantires coexisted for months.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: corco on January 30, 2011, 04:32:45 PM
Hmmm
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2F287789.jpg&hash=3f1189dcb45b40ef03f69749fb15d62d6c2b424e)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: US71 on January 30, 2011, 05:45:50 PM

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3172%2F2503456217_a174b325b7_z_d.jpg&hash=ffd9b8f959766eba5399ac735ee67b168ce3f23a)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: cjk374 on January 30, 2011, 07:14:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on January 30, 2011, 05:45:50 PM

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3172%2F2503456217_a174b325b7_z_d.jpg&hash=ffd9b8f959766eba5399ac735ee67b168ce3f23a)

Why not put the control cities on the new sign? BOOOOO!!!!!   :thumbdown:   :verymad:

Quote from: Duke87 on January 30, 2011, 04:22:04 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg838.imageshack.us%2Fimg838%2F9813%2Fdscn6688a.jpg&hash=940e372f8e417076b1c4dfc0f961150e88b5a2ee)

The silly part about the new signs is that they bothered to put "I-278 east to I-95 north" instead of just "I-95 north". I mean yes, technically, there is still some mainline left to 278 here, but it merges into 95 half a mile ahead, with no other options along the way. Yay for pointless clutter to make things technically correct?

The sillier part of this particular assembly is that both of those gantires coexisted for months.

Anyone else notice the change in control points from a region (New England) to a city (New Haven, CT)?   :hmm:
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: MDOTFanFB on January 30, 2011, 10:53:53 PM
Does this count? http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=42.336873,-83.038766&spn=0,0.01369&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.336104,-83.038241&panoid=H5Fl_9xuVUr1_7bGmdYC3Q&cbp=12,156.67,,0,1.9 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=42.336873,-83.038766&spn=0,0.01369&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.336104,-83.038241&panoid=H5Fl_9xuVUr1_7bGmdYC3Q&cbp=12,156.67,,0,1.9)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: hbelkins on January 30, 2011, 11:56:03 PM
Quote from: Michael in Philly on January 30, 2011, 09:46:17 AM

A peeve:  does that "south" apply to both Ky. 1958 and Truck Ky. 627 or only the latter?  And if the sign on the gantry is the newer one, they've made it worse.

They used to have limitations like that sit above the shield(s) they applied to, even if that entailed repeating them, unless there was only one route shield on the sign.

The ground-mounted sign was installed circa 1997. It originally had only KY 1958 and the route marker was centered. The Truck KY 627 south was added as an afterthought. The Clearview sign was installed as part of the I-64 widening a few years ago.

Truck KY 627 is routed along I-64 from Exit 96 to Exit 94, then along KY 1958 back to 627 on the south side of town. So technically the "South" applies only to Truck 627, although technically KY 1958 exists north of I-64 for only a few hundred feet so it could apply to both routes and be essentially correct.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: NE2 on January 31, 2011, 12:03:28 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on January 30, 2011, 04:22:04 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg838.imageshack.us%2Fimg838%2F9813%2Fdscn6688a.jpg&hash=940e372f8e417076b1c4dfc0f961150e88b5a2ee)
Have they fixed the exit numbers on I-278 and I-95 yet, or are they still a mix of old (mile-based, at least on I-95) and new (sequential)?
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: Quillz on January 31, 2011, 12:46:04 AM
Quote from: US71 on January 30, 2011, 05:45:50 PM

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3172%2F2503456217_a174b325b7_z_d.jpg&hash=ffd9b8f959766eba5399ac735ee67b168ce3f23a)
Is that a '61 spec US-65 shield? It looks really nice compared to the other bloated monstrosities.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on January 31, 2011, 01:28:16 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 31, 2011, 12:03:28 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on January 30, 2011, 04:22:04 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg838.imageshack.us%2Fimg838%2F9813%2Fdscn6688a.jpg&hash=940e372f8e417076b1c4dfc0f961150e88b5a2ee)
Have they fixed the exit numbers on I-278 and I-95 yet, or are they still a mix of old (mile-based, at least on I-95) and new (sequential)?

I-95 and 278, no sadly.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: Ian on January 31, 2011, 07:22:08 PM
Quote from: MDOTFanFB on January 30, 2011, 10:53:53 PM
Does this count? http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=42.336873,-83.038766&spn=0,0.01369&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.336104,-83.038241&panoid=H5Fl_9xuVUr1_7bGmdYC3Q&cbp=12,156.67,,0,1.9 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=42.336873,-83.038766&spn=0,0.01369&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.336104,-83.038241&panoid=H5Fl_9xuVUr1_7bGmdYC3Q&cbp=12,156.67,,0,1.9)

You should know, you started the thread  :pan:
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: US71 on February 05, 2011, 12:01:08 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on January 30, 2011, 07:14:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on January 30, 2011, 05:45:50 PM

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3172%2F2503456217_a174b325b7_z_d.jpg&hash=ffd9b8f959766eba5399ac735ee67b168ce3f23a)

Why not put the control cities on the new sign? BOOOOO!!!!!   :thumbdown:   :verymad:


Because Arkansas is shifting to "Metropolitan signage" in larger cities.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: OracleUsr on February 05, 2011, 06:53:18 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg20.imageshack.us%2Fimg20%2F4813%2Frailroadandwsroadgeekin.jpg&hash=10e034c5608682b7ce4f7ba5c3f8b44dba3aa64a) (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/railroadandwsroadgeekin.jpg/)

Here's one from Winston-Salem on the Corpening Freeway (I-40 Bypass).  In front, of course, is brand new signage (just put up this year) and in the back is an older version of the sign on the left.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: cjk374 on February 05, 2011, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: US71 on February 05, 2011, 12:01:08 PM

Because Arkansas is shifting to "Metropolitan signage" in larger cities.

I was unaware that Conway was a "metropolitan area".   :eyebrow:
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: shadyjay on February 05, 2011, 10:21:14 PM
Taken during summer 2010 on I-89 in Central Vermont:


NB, Mileage to next exits, just after Exit 6, Northbound:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_LdJssxlEuTQ/TU4TERs3leI/AAAAAAAANpk/MBystx1X4KM/s720/Exit%2006-07-mileage-NB.JPG)


NB looking at the SB signage for Exit 7:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_LdJssxlEuTQ/TU4ThdzvMPI/AAAAAAAANp0/OXRCjKhOM1o/s720/Exit%2007-old%20and%20new-SB.JPG)


And going back to the fall of 2005 in Island Pond, VT:  New shields and very old destination signs - wood I think:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_LdJssxlEuTQ/TU4UHIx8_WI/AAAAAAAANqE/zBKKSt4eDhs/s720/VT%20114%20Island%20Pond.JPG)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: US71 on February 05, 2011, 11:15:14 PM
This is subtle: on the right is 1960's era MO Shield; on the left is 1990's era complete with outer white border

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2122%2F2150382309_6161801bec_o_d.jpg&hash=891e54077ed9b715483e52e5b2ab64c40ef7d4c4)

86 is also a steel sign and 13 is aluminum
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: Central Avenue on February 05, 2011, 11:35:20 PM
Wow, that is subtle. I wouldn't have even noticed the white border in that particular photo if you hadn't pointed it out.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: US71 on February 05, 2011, 11:49:13 PM
Quote from: Central Avenue on February 05, 2011, 11:35:20 PM
Wow, that is subtle. I wouldn't have even noticed the white border in that particular photo if you hadn't pointed it out.

The silhouette is also slightly smaller on the 60's sign and uses smaller numbers.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: CL on February 06, 2011, 12:53:49 AM
If we're comparing shields, then here's this:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5017%2F5417839496_dce1a6bf1e_o.jpg&hash=f70e1afa0931e8f33fb67a3e5bf870360138981a)

The left is a late-1980s spec state highway shield, the right a mid or late 1960s spec.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: vdeane on February 06, 2011, 12:24:09 PM
Got a similar one from Vermont; both old and new shield designs are plainly obvious:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_6zDqXUkKvc0/TRKJvhAK31I/AAAAAAAAF2Y/xZFiiP36pwE/s640/100_3172.JPG)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on February 06, 2011, 01:35:28 PM
Unless that stretch of VT-36 is a locally-maintained road... right?
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: shadyjay on February 06, 2011, 05:41:45 PM
Correct.   That's why new signs on I-91 at Exit 5 and I-89 at Exit 2 show both the circle and the green oval shields.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: hbelkins on February 06, 2011, 11:47:02 PM
Quote from: CL on February 06, 2011, 12:53:49 AM
If we're comparing shields, then here's this:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5017%2F5417839496_dce1a6bf1e_o.jpg&hash=f70e1afa0931e8f33fb67a3e5bf870360138981a)

The left is a late-1980s spec state highway shield, the right a mid or late 1960s spec.

The stenciled numbers caught my eye. District 11 in Kentucky used to stencil numbers onto signs years ago but few examples are left out in the field.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: cjk374 on February 09, 2011, 05:31:05 PM
Which of the VT signs is old and which is new...I think I know, but I just want to make sure.
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: agentsteel53 on February 09, 2011, 05:39:47 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on February 09, 2011, 05:31:05 PM
Which of the VT signs is old and which is new...I think I know, but I just want to make sure.

none are particularly old.  the circle is a style introduced earlier (~1973 or so) but both are currently in vogue.  the green shield (about a mid-90s invention, I think) is state-maintaned routes, while the circle is now used only for town-maintained roads, but was used for both classifications from 1973 to the mid-90s.

I do not know if 36 is a town-maintained road there*, the sign may be old and therefore rendered inaccurate by the 1990s changes... or it may be modern and accurate.

(* and frankly, I don't think the general driving public cares - making me wonder why Vermont bothers with two different shield standards.)
Title: Re: A mix of old and new
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on February 09, 2011, 09:49:39 PM
Probably because they don't want to slap their name on routes they are not responsible for the maintenance of.