I have noticed several locations where multiple lanes exit and "EXIT ONLY" panels are not used, but are needed.
1. WB I-635 at President George Bush Turnpike in Irving, TX http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=32.90928,-96.930399&spn=0,0.027509&z=15&layer=c&cbll=32.90924,-96.930203&panoid=bHdu54WJ-ntwJflO0Ou3bQ&cbp=12,283.63,,0,0
2. WB I-24 at US 27. Chattanooga, TN
In this situation more lanes exit than continue for the interstate. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.026939,-85.304954&spn=0,0.013754&z=16&layer=c&cbll=35.026776,-85.304678&panoid=cpjYJcTkuGoIVb0d1diTQw&cbp=12,274.85,,0,0 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.026939,-85.304954&spn=0,0.013754&z=16&layer=c&cbll=35.026776,-85.304678&panoid=cpjYJcTkuGoIVb0d1diTQw&cbp=12,274.85,,0,0)
3. SB I-35E at Loop 12 in Dallas TX This one is a little more complex because there is an "exit off of an exit" involved. There are only 2 arrows for 35E even though three lanes continue on it, Loop 12 South is the exit but has no EXIT ONLY panel, SPUR 348/LP 12 East is an exit off of an exit, and is the only one that has an exit only panel.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=32.872955,-96.898427&spn=0,0.027509&z=15&layer=c&cbll=32.873137,-96.898405&panoid=lxwVfbiDZ4p-n_6zVQxPhw&cbp=12,196.92,,0,0 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=32.872955,-96.898427&spn=0,0.027509&z=15&layer=c&cbll=32.873137,-96.898405&panoid=lxwVfbiDZ4p-n_6zVQxPhw&cbp=12,196.92,,0,0)
In CT, they will have a 2-lane right exit off a three lane configuration with one of the lanes being an optional lane, with only the right most lane signed as a one lane "Exit Only" when 2 lanes actually exit. It forces drivers to change lanes into the right most lane to exit when they don't really have to.
The BGS signage should have two down arrows, the right with a black on yellow "Exit Only" and the other as a regular white on green.
A-20 WB to A-73, Lévis.
http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=46.731276,-71.24961&spn=0,0.004216&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=46.731435,-71.249156&panoid=6R6mCixf0rvHZdGpf5Lu5w&cbp=12,242.23,,2,-4.72
I believe the down arrows there aren't good enough.
Northbound FL 435 in Orlando, FL at I-4 EB exit has two lanes leaving from the right and only ONE lane is marked exit only!
If you have multiple lanes exiting, it's pretty clear that all but the leftmost one have to be exit only. You really don't need it for that application. It's only that leftmost exit lane/rightmost through lane - sign it as exit only if it exits, don't if it splits. I don't see any problem with the 635 example. Why add to sign clutter and size unnecessarily?
Quote from: roadman65 on April 03, 2011, 10:37:41 AM
Northbound FL 435 in Orlando, FL at I-4 EB exit has two lanes leaving from the right and only ONE lane is marked exit only!
Eastbound Interstate 4 at FL 528 is also the same way. Only the rightmost lane is marked Exit Only, with the left of the two exit lanes not marked at all. Gets frustrating especially knowing that it seems no one knows where they're going - which is explainable given the incorrect signage.
New Jersey is famous for failing to sign lane-drops properly. Although they were innovators back in the 1960's in many ways, such as the now standard "jersey barrier" and the "jughandle", their overhead signing practices, especially from the 1960's and 70's were notably lacking.
Near the end of I-280/eastbound in Kearny, approaching the NJ Turnpike, at Exits 17A-B for NJ Route 508, the first exit is a lane-drop and there's no indication of it until you're at the split, and even there all you have is a left arrow and right-arrow in an odd sign configuration. I believe these may be original signs from the 1970's when the road was built. Check it out on Google Earth.
Quote from: doofy103 on April 03, 2011, 12:11:03 AM
In CT, they will have a 2-lane right exit off a three lane configuration with one of the lanes being an optional lane, with only the right most lane signed as a one lane "Exit Only" when 2 lanes actually exit. It forces drivers to change lanes into the right most lane to exit when they don't really have to.
The BGS signage should have two down arrows, the right with a black on yellow "Exit Only" and the other as a regular white on green.
Here's an example: I-91NB at Exit 40
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Interstate+91,+Windsor+CT&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.818029,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Interstate+91&ll=41.893828,-72.643361&spn=0.009632,0.022724&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.893341,-72.644133&panoid=kE42VngtV5b6Z1DfEm9vag&cbp=12,55.08,,0,4.16
Quote from: shadyjay on April 12, 2011, 10:15:59 PM
Quote from: doofy103 on April 03, 2011, 12:11:03 AM
In CT, they will have a 2-lane right exit off a three lane configuration with one of the lanes being an optional lane, with only the right most lane signed as a one lane "Exit Only" when 2 lanes actually exit. It forces drivers to change lanes into the right most lane to exit when they don't really have to.
The BGS signage should have two down arrows, the right with a black on yellow "Exit Only" and the other as a regular white on green.
Here's an example: I-91NB at Exit 40
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Interstate+91,+Windsor+CT&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.818029,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Interstate+91&ll=41.893828,-72.643361&spn=0.009632,0.022724&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.893341,-72.644133&panoid=kE42VngtV5b6Z1DfEm9vag&cbp=12,55.08,,0,4.16
Yes! Shadyjay this is where it's done CORRECTLY for the exit. The only time this is used in CT.
When responding to a quote, start typing AT THE END OF THE MESSAGE. Don't guess.
Quote from: doofy103 on April 03, 2011, 12:11:03 AM
In CT, they will have a 2-lane right exit off a three lane configuration with one of the lanes being an optional lane, with only the right most lane signed as a one lane "Exit Only" when 2 lanes actually exit. It forces drivers to change lanes into the right most lane to exit when they don't really have to.
The BGS signage should have two down arrows, the right with a black on yellow "Exit Only" and the other as a regular white on green.
Note that the changes in the 2009 MUTCD no longer allow the white on green down arrow as you've described. That's one of the few changes I disagree with, as it goes against the signing practices used in Nevada and California for multi-lane exits.
Roadfro is correct. The 2009 MUTCD actually prohibits having 2 down arrows over the same lane on different signs. That is one lane can't be signed for 2 routes anymore. They say drivers find such signing confusing. However in these cases, supplemental ground-mounted lane-use signs are now authorized with arrow pavement markings to show that the 2nd lane goes 2 ways. I don't agree with this either, but that's the way the Federal Hwy. Administration now says it's going to be.
From my read, doofy wasn't referring to two signs with arrows over one lane, but more something where one sign has a down arrow over an option lane, such as this (image from AARoads--I-80 EB approaching Virginia St in Reno, NV):
(https://www.aaroads.com/west/nevada080/i-080_eb_exit_013_04.jpg)
The rest of the rationale still applies though. FHWA believes this kind of sign is confusing to drivers, prompting vehicles in the option lane to want to shift out of the lane due to thinking it may have to exit. I can maybe see how one can arrive at that rationale, but I don't necessarily agree with it.
Now, this kind of situation is now supposed to be marked overhead with just the "Exit Only" arrow over the dropped lane (no indication of the option lane overhead). That is augmented with supplemental lane-use signage on the side of the road and pavement marking arrows that show the option lane. Then, the exit direction sign is to be placed beyond the gore with two "Exit Only" upward arrows...that just seems more confusing to me than the previous condition. I think FHWA should've come up with a better solution...
I seem to remember noticing on OH 315 in Columbus recently, that guide signs for exits around OSU campus didn't say EXIT ONLY when they should and always have. The interchanges with Kinnear Rd, Lane Ave, Ackerman Rd, and North Broadway are so closely spaced that auxilliary lanes are used; maybe now ODOT believes that, because they are not long-running through lanes, it's not a real lane drop at the exit? Or maybe I just dreamed this...
Re FHWA's policies on optional exit lanes...
What are they smoking? The methods that have been in place for decades to indicate an optional exit lane are too confusing to drivers? The only way to explain that would be to start with the assumption that drivers don't expect, or perhaps can't understand the concept of, lanes that split and go multiple ways. If that's true, the solution is to eliminate those kinds of roadway geometries, not take away the most effective means to guide drivers through those geometries! Or even better, educate drivers about this kind of situation, which is and has been common on freeways for nearly a century!
Quote from: vtk on November 04, 2011, 05:14:32 PM
I seem to remember noticing on OH 315 in Columbus recently, that guide signs for exits around OSU campus didn't say EXIT ONLY when they should and always have. The interchanges with Kinnear Rd, Lane Ave, Ackerman Rd, and North Broadway are so closely spaced that auxilliary lanes are used; maybe now ODOT believes that, because they are not long-running through lanes, it's not a real lane drop at the exit? Or maybe I just dreamed this
There is a "missing" exit only sign, in both directions along 315 between Lane Ave and Kinnear Rd exits (where there wasn't one before). Otherwise all the "exit only" signage has remained the same.
I agree that the conventional signing as shown in the photo above is perfectly clear in its meaning. It seems to me that the Feds created a problem where there wasn't one. On the other hand, half of America's drivers don't even seem to know that you are required to stop before turning right-on-red, so who knows what some of these drivers may see or think the sign means.
Do people actually read them? On I-4 you see many people make unsafe lane changes at exits with them and the new dotted lane striping there. You cannot get much better than this, yet ignorance prevails.
Ignorance, northern aggressive driving, confused old people. Call it what you will. Doesn't affect the Exit Only issue.
Florida has a few places that do need them. FL 435 NB at I-4 has two lanes exiting, and yet only shows arrow for one lane.
What a coincidence that we happen to be discussing this "optional-lane" signing issue right now, 'cause today I saw my first "overhead-arrow-per-lane" sign. This is the type of sign that will now be used for "optional lane" exits at "major" junctions, as per the new Manual. Funny thing is it's not even on a freeway; just a signalized state highway on Long Island. Westbound Jericho Tpk. (N.Y.25) where it forks at the North Service Rd. of the L.I. Expwy(I-495) at Exit-40 in the Jericho area. The arrows look similar to those found on overhead Autobahn signs.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc395%2FBrian5561%2F12711003.jpg&hash=5136b05e3e4503178a46b88bbae96c7f18716df6)
self quote:
QuoteWB I-635 at President George Bush Turnpike in Irving, TX
Finally got a pic of it today. Note that the lanes that exit the the President George Bush do not have EXIT ONLY panels
Quote from: Ace10 on April 10, 2011, 11:22:29 PM
Eastbound Interstate 4 at FL 528 is also the same way. Only the rightmost lane is marked Exit Only, with the left of the two exit lanes not marked at all. Gets frustrating especially knowing that it seems no one knows where they're going - which is explainable given the incorrect signage.
Except that in this case, the left of the two exit lanes isn't exit only - it's an option lane. Only the right lane is exit only. The current MUTCD specifies this exact signage - no indication for an option lane until the exit itself. Apparently a green down arrow was "confusing".
There's an EXIT ONLY sign on M-5 that doesn't exit at all. Seems to create unnecessary weaving when cars think it's an EXIT ONLY lane.
Does this look wrong to anyone else?
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.486324,-83.435409&spn=0.001515,0.002411&t=h&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=42.486316,-83.435544&panoid=tbp9pwOhZ1TEBBlYLgt-Ow&cbp=12,270.64,,0,-0.4
Quote from: realjd on December 09, 2011, 11:16:06 AM
Quote from: Ace10 on April 10, 2011, 11:22:29 PM
Eastbound Interstate 4 at FL 528 is also the same way. Only the rightmost lane is marked Exit Only, with the left of the two exit lanes not marked at all. Gets frustrating especially knowing that it seems no one knows where they're going - which is explainable given the incorrect signage.
Except that in this case, the left of the two exit lanes isn't exit only - it's an option lane. Only the right lane is exit only. The current MUTCD specifies this exact signage - no indication for an option lane until the exit itself. Apparently a green down arrow was "confusing".
I guess they'd rather have people change lanes unnecessarily. They're worse than NYSDOT region 2!
Quote from: tradephoric on December 09, 2011, 11:37:50 AM
There's an EXIT ONLY sign on M-5 that doesn't exit at all. Seems to create unnecessary weaving when cars think it's an EXIT ONLY lane.
Does this look wrong to anyone else?
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.486324,-83.435409&spn=0.001515,0.002411&t=h&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=42.486316,-83.435544&panoid=tbp9pwOhZ1TEBBlYLgt-Ow&cbp=12,270.64,,0,-0.4
I didn't know that England uses "Exit Only" signs.
<clicks link>
Oh, Michigan. That makes more sense. Yeah, that sign is dumb.
Quote from: realjd on December 09, 2011, 01:16:58 PMQuote from: tradephoric on December 09, 2011, 11:37:50 AMThere's an EXIT ONLY sign on M-5 that doesn't exit at all. Seems to create unnecessary weaving when cars think it's an EXIT ONLY lane.
I didn't know that England the autonomous community of Madrid uses "Exit Only" signs.
<clicks link>
Oh, Michigan. That makes more sense. Yeah, that sign is dumb.
Fixed that for you (British road designations have never used hyphens--the usual delimiter between system and number, not used since the mid-1960's, was a period: A40 or A.40, never A-40). And yes, both that advance guide sign and the following exit direction sign are dumb because the exit is a simple diverge without lane drop. But I think it is an example of overcorrecting. The signing designer must have thought that traffic wishing to exit at 12 Mile Road would have confused the gained lane immediately underneath the first advance guide sign with an auxiliary lane, staying out of it when they need to move into it in order to take the exit. The correct way to fix this problem, if indeed an attempt to fix it should have been made at all, would have been to use "RIGHT LANE" instead of an "EXIT ONLY" panel with arrow.
I'm with you Brian, whether it's considered a split or not, if it's an exit from the mainline I wanna know which lanes are absolutely exiting. I always tend to forget on 635 which lanes are going and which ones are staying especially when I'm getting close to 35E with lanes exiting left and right