Going through some of my old thomas guides and looking at some of the proposed routings and construction of the LA freeway system made me want to scan them and post them on here for you guys.
Never knew about CA 47 being proposed to terminate at the 91.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5103%2F5629314010_a06b425c63.jpg&hash=866b7e93e823e525cbc339ab0d7ba5aadc826622) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5629314010/)
Thomas Bros Map Circa 1974 Compton/Carson Area (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5629314010/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
Proposed routing of CA 2 Beverly Hills Freeway. Wonder what the interchange with the 101 would have looked like?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5224%2F5628734733_748e3e280f.jpg&hash=79c44becda1ecdedb2b68b59f417c0482fe0885f) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5628734733/)
Thomas Bros Map Circa 1974 Los Angeles Hollywood Area (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5628734733/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
Old cloverleaf interchange at the I-5/CA-55. Totally rebuilt in the 1990s
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5027%2F5629316596_ec9a860777.jpg&hash=1f333a210e131c0212c055634923f3a56da5554f) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5629316596/)
Thomas Bros Map Circa 1974 Santa Ana/Tustin Area (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5629316596/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
The proposal for the 105 took a slightly more southern alignment through Hawthorne following 120th St instead of curving northwest towards the intersection of Prarie and Imperial Hwy.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5021%2F5628737403_1c19f8d8e3.jpg&hash=84c28b74898337b32c910a7a3d60f921b92efbe5) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5628737403/)
Thomas Bros Map Circa 1974 Inglewood/Hawthorne Area (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5628737403/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
CA 64 Proposed to terminate at the 101.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5302%2F5629319940_b9b408667b.jpg&hash=5a4e7f0685b0bc4e5d9359bc7c27f2083e2b1b7b) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5629319940/)
Thomas Bros Map Circa 1974 Calabasa/Woodland Hills Area (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5629319940/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
Added warning to subject name because of several large file sized images in thread. -- rmf67
Woah... I knew about CA-64, but I had no idea it was ever proposed to terminate far west of the valley near Hidden Hills. That's very close to where I live. All proposals I remember reading were taking it about 10 miles east, near Reseda. Do you by any chance have the page that would have gone above it? Curious to see how CA-64 was planned to be routed through the valley.
And I believe that CA-47 to this day is still proposed to extend further north to CA-91.
Quote from: Quillz on April 18, 2011, 04:36:20 PM
Woah... I knew about CA-64, but I had no idea it was ever proposed to terminate far west of the valley near Hidden Hills. That's very close to where I live. All proposals I remember reading were taking it about 10 miles east, near Reseda. Do you by any chance have the page that would have gone above it? Curious to see how CA-64 was planned to be routed through the valley.
And I believe that CA-47 to this day is still proposed to extend further north to CA-91.
I think 47 along the Alameda corridor is in theory supposed go to Route 91, with the portion from Route 91 to I-10 long proposed but probably remaining unbuilt as a state highway.
As for 64, in the valley it would follow Whitnall Street (giving it the name of Whitnall Freeway) to terminate at the 170/5 junction, IIRC.
Quote from: Quillz on April 18, 2011, 04:36:20 PM
Do you by any chance have the page that would have gone above it? Curious to see how CA-64 was planned to be routed through the valley.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5224%2F5632945091_fe9826ea84.jpg&hash=fc68e53311b00caa12a2a625bb2018f16c03b23f) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5632945091/)
IMG (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5632945091/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5188%2F5632946057_f06d51b224.jpg&hash=f36712f2e84f01eda24aa373aae31b9fcf195d1b) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5632946057/)
IMG_0001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5632946057/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5264%2F5632947119_b3fa8f4935.jpg&hash=91a0360300fc05617e245751302e72de334b435f) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5632947119/)
IMG_0002 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5632947119/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5102%2F5632948081_2e4400ac05.jpg&hash=111f879944ad65ff2c2ff6ed1a9eecbe4d70946f) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5632948081/)
IMG_0003 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5632948081/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5263%2F5633531874_3906b7bab7.jpg&hash=05af50dd8179fb156ba7fb48c925dfbea6b6fc85) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5633531874/)
IMG_0004 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5633531874/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5065%2F5633533190_2c4619fc7b.jpg&hash=b731b23f423a885fa707b9c9329b75eb6213edde) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5633533190/)
IMG_0005 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5633533190/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
Wow, it's so strange imagining a freeway running straight thorough that portion of the valley, especially in the western half, which today is just comprised of primarily small neighborhood streets.
Would have been interesting if it became reality.
If it were up to me I would have had the 64 travel the west end of the valley then turning northwest up around chatsworth to have it meet up at the 210. I think that would have been a nice route for people coming from the Santa Clarita/Palmdale area to reach Woodland Hills.
I also have a 1968 LA regional map which has the 64 proposed down south to meet PCH at the proposed Pacific Coast Freeway.
The '68 alignment is the one I'm most familiar with. It was supposed to be part of the Laurel Canyon Freeway, right?
I also seem to recall a CA-14 extension down Reseda Blvd. to connect it to PCH. Mileposts on CA-14 near the Newhall Pass are not 0, indicating that this extension is still officially planned, but the exit markers hit 0, indicating it's not going to actually happen.
Quote from: Quillz on April 19, 2011, 12:12:58 AM
The '68 alignment is the one I'm most familiar with. It was supposed to be part of the Laurel Canyon Freeway, right?
No, the Laurel Canyon Freeway was supposed to be Route 170. It was planned from the 405 La Cienega Bl exit, north through Hollywood, then terminate at the present day 170/101 interchange. I think the wealthy in Laurel Canyon (Hollywood Hills) used their clout to cancel it.
I have the '76 Thomas Guide, and the Whitnall Freeway is no longer on the map.
Quote from: Bigmikelakers on April 17, 2011, 09:06:36 PM
Never knew about CA 47 being proposed to terminate at the 91.
CA-47 is signed on Alameda Street north to CA-91 now. With the Alameda Corridor and pending upgrades to I-710, I think the CA-47 freeway (via the Terminal Island Freeway) idea is off the table. Instead, they're going to make improvements in connecting the Heim Bridge to Alameda Street via Henry Ford Avenue.
Quote from: Bigmikelakers on April 17, 2011, 09:06:36 PM
Proposed routing of CA 2 Beverly Hills Freeway. Wonder what the interchange with the 101 would have looked like?
Beverly Hills Freeway is still on the '76 map. My understanding is US-101 has a very wide median at that section (now filled in by self-storage business) to accommodate the CA-2 interchange, so I'm guessing it's some sort of dual-freeway design/weave.
I want your thomas guide!!! lol
That funny. If you have any questions about my 1966 Thomas Bros map, then let me know.
Quote from: SimMoonXP on April 22, 2011, 07:29:21 PM
That funny. If you have any questions about my 1966 Thomas Bros map, then let me know.
What did the 91 through Cerritos look like back then? Was the 91 freeway proposed in Gardena/Torrance as well?
Thanks for that. Dairy Valley was the original name of Cerritos until they voted to change it. Funny to see how it grew so fast from 1966 to 1970. I thought the 91 would be proposed as freeway from the 110 to Hermosa Beach though. Thats why I wanted to see that portion.
The Houston Freeway is new to me. Maybe it was named after a local area politician? And the Santa Ana Freeway is still the 101!
It is minor street name as just south of proposed Houston Freeway. Look on Page 10-A2 and Page 10-D2. Is that helpful for Houston St. (Street) in Orange County Section?
Did you get my question about 1968 San Bernardino County Thomas Guide, the question was "I am wondering what does the 1968 San Bernardino County Key maps looks like?" Because my 1969 Edition (Blue mapbook cover) says "Enlarged Key Maps". It is possible for you can scan or take a picture of the 1968 San Bernardino County Key maps?
Thats odd. Wonder why out of all streets they would name it after that particular street?
Do you mean the "Key To Arterial Map Pages" 700 pages?
Maybe the 1962 mapbook page 10 had an error for wrong freeway name as Houston Freeway... Supposed to called Artesia Freeway.
Page IV to VII in San Bernardino County section. Let me know if you have Riverside County as if it came with that book also.
Quote from: SimMoonXP on April 23, 2011, 12:09:22 AM
Maybe the 1962 mapbook page 10 had an error for wrong freeway name as Houston Freeway... Supposed to called Artesia Freeway.
Page IV to VII in San Bernardino County section. Let me know if you have Riverside County as if it came with that book also.
Yes I have those pages. Page VI and VII I already posted in another thread. "unknown proposed freeways" IV is just a legend and V is a key to the arterial map pages. Want me to post that? I also have Riverside County too but as a seperate book.
Yeah, you can post that, as make sure with detail page numbers on the map for SB and Riverside Counties.
I also wondering about Riverside County Page 49 C6/D6. I have seen the website called www.historicalaerials.com showing that area looks like the I-10 had a old interchange nearby 32nd Street in Banning, CA. That ramp is not diamond type. It was torn down around 1969. I am not sure if your mapbook showing that.
I also wondering about San Bernardino Page 69, 71, 145, 146 for US 66/395/I-15 freeway as from Keenbrook to top of Cajon Pass area curve. I know 15 freeway was constructed to 8 lanes freeway around 1969-70 timeframe. I am not sure if your mapbook showing the old curvy 4 lanes alignment on detail map of Thomas Bros map before.
I also wondering about San Bernardino Page 40 for CA-91 old alignment at Green River Road. The 91 8 lanes freeway was constructed around 1969-70 timeframe.
Heres the Key to Arterial Map Pages
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5221%2F5645229077_7ceca0621e.jpg&hash=c8c9def45081914a23a205567fe9a378b8a78850) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5645229077/)
IMG (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5645229077/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
Heres the Riverside County Page 49
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5310%2F5645793160_bf8110c6ce.jpg&hash=80a3ceea33f95243bc93e088d8b887b030319b84) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5645793160/)
IMG_0001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5645793160/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
Heres San Bernardino County Page 69 and 71
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5145%2F5645231013_d5b626c987.jpg&hash=db16bc7c73146a37799454a02b5181859c73dcf0) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5645231013/)
IMG_0002 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5645231013/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
Heres San Bernardino County Page 145 and 146
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5223%2F5645795038_637638c092.jpg&hash=c2f9a32123fcec919cea1e6df751adb8c0fc9462) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5645795038/)
IMG_0003 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5645795038/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
Heres the 91 at Green River
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.static.flickr.com%2F5301%2F5645795758_9d9ffac936.jpg&hash=33e238fa8e432d440419016a79364c8ed7502e42) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5645795758/)
IMG_0004 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigmikelakers/5645795758/) by bigmikelakers (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigmikelakers/), on Flickr
We should make this thread the Thomas Guide thread haha.
Yes, I will scan and post them for you.
Do you have more of San Bernardino County? The photos I have seen so far are really cool. Does it have the Yucca Valley-Twentynine Palms Area?
General Thomas Bros/Guide Collection Question
What years do you have in county?
Pacific Southwest Region (CA & NV):
Alameda Co 1954,57,59,61,63-64,71,73-75,77-78,87,89,91-95,97-98,01,04
Alameda & Contra Costa Cos 1953,65,69-72,74-80,82-95,97-09
Alameda & Santa Clara Cos 1980,85-88,93,98,02-03
Bay Area Metro 1997-09
California Road Atlas 1982-83,85-04,06,08
Central San Joaquin Valley 2005,07,09
Central Valley Cities 1987,89-90,93,96-98
Contra Costa Co 1953,56,60,65,72-73,92-95,97,99-01,04,06
Contra Costa & Solano Cos 1989, 98
East Bay 1945
Fresno Co 1977,79-80,83-84
Fresno-Madera Cos 2001,03
Golden Gate 1961,65,69,71-95,97-00
Inland Empire Metro 1999-03
Kern Co 1980,82,84,01,03,05,07,09
Kings & Tulare Cos 2001,03
Las Vegas 1998-09
Los Angeles Co 1945-47,49-10
Los Angeles & Orange Cos 1953-67,69-10,13,15,19,22,25
Los Angeles & San Bernardino Cos 2007-09
Los Angeles & Ventura Cos 1980-81,83-92,94-10,13
Marin Co 1951,56,60,65,73-74,76,82-89,91,93,95,99-03
Marin & Sonoma Cos 2007
Monterey Co 1976,79-80,83,85,87,89,91,95,00-02,04,06,09
Napa & Solano Cos 1981-82
Napa & Sonoma Cos 2000-03,05,07
Northern San Joaquin Valley 2005,07,09
Orange Co 1952,55,58,60-61,67-73,75-09
Orange & Los Angeles Cos 1960,62,64,69,83-84,86,89,93-99,01-04
Reno/Tahoe 2007
Riverside Co 1968,74,76-81,83-84,87-99,01-10
Riverside & Orange Cos 1996-01,05-06
Riverside & San Diego Cos 1996-98,00-09
Sacramento Co 1960,63,67,69-80,82-85,87-09
Sacramento & Solano Cos 1981,87-88,91-93,95-09
San Bernardino Co 1973-74,76-81,83-85,87-89,91,94-10
San Bernardino & Riverside Cos 1964,66,68-73,75-81,83-10,13
San Diego Co 1951,54,56-61,63-65,67-10,13,16,19,22
San Diego & Orange Cos 1979,81-83,85-87,89-91,94-09
San Francisco Co 1949,53,56,67,73,75-81,84-86,88-89,91,97,99,01-03
San Francisco & Marin Cos 2004-06,08-09
San Francisco & San Mateo Cos 1989-90,97-98,01-09
San Francisco, Alameda & Contra Costa Cos 1989-91,94-95,97,98,00
San Joaquin Co 2001,03
San Mateo Co 1956,58,73,80-81,83,86-89,92,94,99-04
Santa Barbara Co 1972-73,76-77,79,81-82,84-86,88-92,95-98,00,02-09
Santa Barbara & San Luis Obispo / Ventura Cos 1972-73,75-92,94-09
Santa Clara Co 1955-56,58,69,71-73,77-81,83-86,88,90-94,97-03,06
Santa Clara & San Mateo Cos 1979,84-85,88-95,97,00-06,08-09
Solano Co 1986,88,91,93,95,99-00,02-03
Solano & Sonoma Cos 1984,86,88
Sonoma Co 1953,57,61,71,73-74,77,79,81-82,84,86,88,90,92,95
Sonoma & Marin Cos 1986,90,94-95
Stanislaus & Merced Cos 2001,03
Ventura Co 1965,66,70-71,74-81,84-92,94-04,06-09
I have:
Los Angeles: 1947(Coming Soon in Mail), 1955 (Can't seem to find it), 1973, 1974, 1978, 1988, 1990, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2005, 2007
Orange: 1973, 1974, 1983, 1988, 1980, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2007
Riverside: 1969, 1987?, 1996, 2003, 2006
San Bernardino: 1969, 1987?, 2006
San Diego: 1956(Coming Soon In Mail), 1968, 1987, 1996, 2003
Ventura: 1968 (Can't seem to find it), 1991, 1996, 2005
Santa Barbara/San Luis Obispo: 1991?, 2005 or 06
Kern: 2001
Metro Bay Area: 2000
Alameda: 2006
Sacramento/Solano: 2003
Las Vegas: 2007
Phoenix: 2003, 2006
King County(WA): 2006
Pacific Northwest: 2004?
Washington DC: 2005?
Pacific Northwest Region (WA & OR):
Island, Skagit & Whatcom Cos 2009
King Co 1955,60,69,71,74,76,78-79,82,87-88,90,92,94,98,00-07
King & Pierce Cos 1979,84,87,92,97,99
King, Pierce & Snohomish Cos 1969,72,74,76,78-81,83,86-90,92,94-99,04-10
King & Snohomish Cos 1974,78-79,81-82,88,90,96,98,00,01,09
Kitsap County 2008
Metropolitan Puget Sound 2000-03
Pacific Northwest Road Atlas 1999-04,06,10
Pierce Co 1984,89,94,01,04
Portland Metro 1978,80,82-84,86-90,92-10
Salem 2008
Snohomish Co 1956,84,87-88,2001,03,07
Spokane and Coeur d'Alene 2008,10
Mountain Region (ID):
Boise & Snake River Valley 2007,10
Northeast Region (D.C., MD, VA & WW):
Anne Arundel Co 1998,00
Anne Arundel & Prince George Cos 2002-03
Baltimore City/Co 2002-03
Baltimore Metro 1999-04,06
Baltimore & Anne Arundel Cos 2006
Caroll & Howard Cos 2006
Frederick Co 1999,01
Frederick & Montgomery Cos 1996
Fredericksburg Area 1997,99
Greater Baltimore 1997
Howard Co 1998,00
Loudoun Co 1998,00,06
Montgomery Co 1998-01
Montgomery & Howard Cos 2002,03
Northern Virginia 1998-04,06,09
Piedmont Area 1996
Prince George Co 1998-00
Prince Williams Co 1998,00
Suburban Virginia 1996,97
Washington, D.C. and portions of Prince George's Co 1996
Washington, D.C. Metro 1998-04,06,09
Western Maryland & Eastern Panhandle West Virginia 1998
Four Corners (AZ):
Arizona Road Atlas 2007
Phoenix Metro 1977-84,86-89,91-92,96,98,01-09
Tucson 2001-08
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG.jpg&hash=a20771be0e39057cf6ad9848120c6f156c25dd95)
Never Seen This Freeway Before (A1-A3)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0001.jpg&hash=2c61415679ed009e909a05c33301542a93bc68a5)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0002.jpg&hash=94711b4e60b5b38455e0a1f4c91b8c2a6ff3791c)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0003.jpg&hash=92f58d0c8f67b5c21fa8d7e389b7f1671875a88c)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0004.jpg&hash=860152d0cd6346fddcf5b8cbdefcd111a3232bf4)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0005.jpg&hash=9df085bbb8086048c20019f2fee4029129db753a)
AVOID QUOTING LARGE IMAGES THX
Thanks for uploading!! Do you have Morongo Valley? I live there, and it's funny how Old Woman Springs Road was a propsed Freeway at one time. i wonder what for. bypass of Los Angeles maybe. Really cool pictures. I have a couple of older Thomnas Guide's but none dating to the I-10 construction. It's funny Yucca Valley Hasn't changed all that much.
The other would be Barstow.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0006.jpg&hash=7c4a348d2539c679abbe4e09fb184e3f284ad45c)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0007.jpg&hash=dd8dafc17be64448aada7416818364e02889554c)
Here you go:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0008.jpg&hash=b52f82effb2494b5b5d4310422a47b332e2815ab)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0009.jpg&hash=0116c20ef29d38f95503d38343140e3ae30fc441)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0010.jpg&hash=7e5ff094f43c9423e7bffcaa21db82585674eebd)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0011.jpg&hash=35ba866b690d3768e058048cd8beb211cb598cd9)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0012.jpg&hash=a2a5d868453c5792d33a504f6ef78092c7be404f)
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SimMoonXP: Can you post the 405 freeway under construction or proposed from 1962 in Torrance, Culver City, Hawthorne, Long Beach, and Irvine? And also the Santa Monica Freeway in Los Angeles from 1962? Thank you
Thank You for uploading. It's so cool to see all these area's.
It seems that the CA-247 and US-395 freeways were freeway for the sake of being freeways. Neither of them are located in particularly densely settled areas and thus neither would really benefit much from a freeway. (Although nowadays, US-395 between Victorville and Ridgecrest has seen a population boom.) But CA-247 is located almost entirely in rural, thinly settled desert.
Thanks for that! Look how blank Irvine looked in 1962! The stretch of the 405 from West LA to Long Beach was probably the first stretch to be opened and the last stretch probably was the Irvine segment.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0014.jpg&hash=80662a5312f8c3ced5cfd125039b555f071916d5)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0015.jpg&hash=bbf9879a1cfe82b1537d87101114a8dc293b288e)
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Interesting to note that CA-107 was originally a spur route, as the original CA-7 was once where I-405 is now.
Could I get a scan/shot of the 1962 downtown Long Beach? I'd like to see how US 6 and 91 ended.
Quote from: Quillz on April 26, 2011, 02:00:36 AM
Interesting to note that CA-107 was originally a spur route, as the original CA-7 was once where I-405 is now.
Actually, CA-107 was originally part of CA-7, but was renumbered when CA-7 was assigned to the freeway alignment.
FWIW, I have:
Los Angeles: 1945
Los Angeles/Orange: 1959, 1976
Orange: 1974
Santa Clara: 1952
And then a bunch from the 1990s-2000s.
Here's a thought that I've been kicking around for a while: I want to set up a web site that would compare Thomas Guide pages through the years. I know how do to it technically and it seems that (if people wanted to participate) most of the years could be covered (certainly on at least a five-year basis) for many counties. If it only went up to when the page numbering changed (1990?) Would that be stretching the definition of fair use?
Thats a good idea but, what I fear is the legality of doing such thing. We should just make this thread an official thomas guide thread or something like that.
Quote from: DTComposer on April 26, 2011, 02:39:23 AM
Quote from: Quillz on April 26, 2011, 02:00:36 AM
Interesting to note that CA-107 was originally a spur route, as the original CA-7 was once where I-405 is now.
Actually, CA-107 was originally part of CA-7, but was renumbered when CA-7 was assigned to the freeway alignment.
FWIW, I have:
Los Angeles: 1945
Los Angeles/Orange: 1959, 1976
Orange: 1974
Santa Clara: 1952
And then a bunch from the 1990s-2000s.
Here's a thought that I've been kicking around for a while: I want to set up a web site that would compare Thomas Guide pages through the years. I know how do to it technically and it seems that (if people wanted to participate) most of the years could be covered (certainly on at least a five-year basis) for many counties. If it only went up to when the page numbering changed (1990?) Would that be stretching the definition of fair use?
Is that during the golden State Freeway Construction? Do you have detalied pages of downtown Los Angeles and of the Newhall pass? Also of the Santa Monica Freeway.
For SimMoonXP:
1952 Santa Clara County Key Map:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx375%2Fdtcomposer%2FSantaClaraCounty1952Key.jpg&hash=e78610385805e4dee8f9b8e3fe0732e115886b60)
1959 Los Angeles County Table of Contents:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx375%2Fdtcomposer%2FLosAngelesCounty1959Contents.jpg&hash=48475da428b4fb76dbc70ac63a6371f8bf3c635e)
Interstate Trav: I'll scan some of those in the morning.
I also realized I have a Thomas Bros. fold-out map covering most of the Santa Clara Valley and southern Peninsula (in three separate maps: San Carlos to Sunnyvale, San Jose & Santa Clara, and Los Gatos/Campbell/Saratoga). No date on the map, but I peg it at around 1945 or so.
Does anyone have any coverage of the Santa Clarita Valley before, during and after Interstate 5 was under construction. Also take into consideration of State route 14 for this request too, as proposed, under construction, etc.
--- SCP
Roadmapfan66: I will post the two freeway in those areas soon. Because of Photobucket server is little bit acting up right now. I have a question for you. It is possible for you can write a list for Thomas Bros mapbook in here?
Quote from: SimMoonXP on April 25, 2011, 01:42:27 AM
General Thomas Bros/Guide Collection Question
What years do you have in county within Southern California?
For me are:
Kern County: 1980, 2003, 2009
San Bernardino County: 1984, 1996
Ventura County: 1994
Los Angeles County: 1962, 1978, 1995
Orange County: 1984, 1997, 1998
Riverside County: 1991, 1995, 1996, 2001, 2010
San Diego County: 1956, 1963, 1967, 1968, 1975, 1976, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
Central Valley Cities: 1993
San Bernardino & Riverside Counties: 1969, 1971, 1977, 1988, 1990, 1997, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
Santa Barbara & San Luis Obispo / Ventura Counties: 1992, 1996
Los Angeles & Orange Counties: 1956, 1958, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1970, 1972, 1973, 1976, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1999, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2010
Orange & Los Angeles Counties: 1962, 1969
San Diego & Orange Counties: 2002
Quote from: SimMoonXP on April 25, 2011, 03:11:37 AM
Northern California & California Road Atlas:
California Road Atlas: 1st (1982), 2nd, 4th, 8th, 10th, 11th-2, 12th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 21st, 24th (2008)
Bay Area Metro: 1999, 2004, 2005
Solano County: 1995
Sacramento County: 1996, 2005, 2006
Alameda County: 1957, 1998
San Francisco County: 1997
Santa Clara County: 1997
Fresno County: 1978
Sacramento & Solano Counties: 2008
Golden Gate: 1967-69 (each counties are different year- strange), 1995, 1997
Alameda & Contra Costa Counties: 1970, 1989, 2008
Santa Clara & San Mateo Counties: 2008
Central San Joaquin Valley: 2005, 2007
East Bay: 1945 (1/2 size mapbook)
Kings & Tulare Counties: 2003
Napa & Sonoma Counties: 2005
San Joaquin County: 2003
San Francisco & Marin Counties: 2004
Pacific Northwest:
Pacific Northwest Road Atlas: 1999, 2002, 2006, 2010
Portland Metro: 2002, 2005, 2007, 2008
King & Pierce Counties: 1997
Boise & Snake River Valley: 2007, 2010
Arizona & Nevada:
Arizona Road Atlas: 2007
Phoenix Metro: 1978, 1998, 2004
Tucson: 2008
Las Vegas: Spring 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
Reno/Tahoe: 2007
D.C. & Maryland & Virginia & W. Virginia:
Washington D.C. Metro: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2010
Baltimore Metro: 1999
Prince Williams County: 1998
Loudoun County: 1998, 2006
Baltimore City/County: 2002
Baltimore & Anne Arundel Counties: 2006
Frederick County: 1999
Western Maryland & Eastern Panhandle West Virginia: 1998
You are welcome to answer my question about your Thomas Bros map. Sorry for minor inconvience for delay for Photobucket server is little bit acting up right now, so pardon my dust.
I really like the image of 1952 Santa Clara County Key Map, which is looks greatest difference than mine 1969 Santa Clara County Key map! I bet the 1952 Edition could have very few freeways into it. But Santa Clara Valley Expressway seem relavent new in 1960s, also in 1950s expressway system at there were not there as just plain older smaller roads at any types at there.
The 2nd image is very word informative image for 1959 Los Angeles County Thomas Bros map. We are still wondering what is inside 1956 to 1967 San Bernardino and or Riverside Counties. Is there is way for us to find the old mapbook for those area. I am really wondering how it might looks like for old page and grid as before the SB/RIV county page and grid makeover could occurred somewhere in mid 1960s.
Thank you for posting the Santa Clarita Valley. I wonder if you have any scanned areas for San Luis Obispo and my home town of Morro Bay too. It seems to me that the city of Visalia, CA had not many scans yet. Central Valley city off course. But Canyon Country was originally called Solemint, does the town of Solemint appear where Canyon Country is in any of your old Thomas Bros. Guides, before or after the year of 1962?
Or even Bakersfield or Fresno as of yet, is there a limited time period for those two cities, including Visalia too? Just wondering. --- SCP
I have the new versions of the colored The Thomas Guide, freeways are red just like ACSC maps, but I wonder how much did they publish San Luis Obispo County area, from the first year to the newest year? How many editions existed, and the scans... I would like to know when Morro Bay had CA 1 as a freeway U.C. 1960, 1962 hmmmm?
The evolution of the Antelope Valley Freeway. Thats too cool!! They didn't make one for kern County did they? To have the town of Mojave, always did wonder what an old Map of Mojave looks like.
You do have the East Los Angeles Interchange? That would be cool to see the US 60/70/99 meeting with US 101. Amazing if you think about that, with all the changes the same amount of route numbers still converge in Downtowm. Not instead of US 60/70/99/101 its US 101/ I-5/I-10/CA 60.
Also I didn't know that Sierra Hwy got CA 14 as the Antelope Valley Freeway was being built.
Heres part of my 1957 San Diego fold out map
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG-1.jpg&hash=15b64cbba369c020c65106049c45163b0d70691c)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0001-1.jpg&hash=d9358ba58822fc3ce5358c1954905b51f81779cb)
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Quote from: Interstate Trav on April 28, 2011, 12:53:10 AM
Also I didn't know that Sierra Hwy got CA 14 as the Antelope Valley Freeway was being built.
Yeah, it was originally US-6, then became CA-14 around 1964, I think. Seems the original Route 14 was further south.
CA-26 was once in downtown LA?
Yes, look on 1962 page 44 far left side...as CA-26 highway sign.
Yeah, I noticed that, hence my post. I always thought the current CA-26 was a much older route than 1964.
For Quillz: I have one question for you. It is possible for you can make a list of your Thomas Bros mapbooks here?
I don't have that many, actually. LA/Ventura Counties from 1998, San Bernardino/Riverside Counties from 2004 and a state-wide guide from 2007. I do have one older guide from 1987 but I can't find it at the moment.
Quote from: Quillz on April 30, 2011, 03:24:09 AM
Yeah, I noticed that, hence my post. I always thought the current CA-26 was a much older route than 1964.
CA-26 was originally CA-6 (to fall in line with the 2-6-10-14-18-22-26 numbering as discussed in a recent thread), but was renumbered fairly quickly when US-6 was assigned (the original CA-26 (Bolsa Ave/1st Street) was probably never signed in the field).
San Diego: Since CA 163 freeway was partly US 395, why didn't I-15 follow it but instead end up on a new alignment?
Quote from: AlpsROADS on April 30, 2011, 02:45:29 PM
San Diego: Since CA 163 freeway was partly US 395, why didn't I-15 follow it but instead end up on a new alignment?
I think the 163 is not up to Interstate standards especially south of I-8. Maybe thats a factor. I'm not sure though.
Quote from: Bigmikelakers on April 30, 2011, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: AlpsROADS on April 30, 2011, 02:45:29 PM
San Diego: Since CA 163 freeway was partly US 395, why didn't I-15 follow it but instead end up on a new alignment?
I think the 163 is not up to Interstate standards especially south of I-8. Maybe thats a factor. I'm not sure though.
I would say, this being the 1950s or early 60s, it would be a lot cheaper to upgrade an existing freeway with room inside the ROW than to build a whole new one. You might make a different decision now after the precedents of the late 1960s freeway revolts and EPA legislation of the 1970s.
I think it would have been nearly impossible to widen 163 through Balboa Park due to the opposition. It would be like widening the Pasadena Freeway between downtown and Pasadena.
I would assume that you dont have any old Automobile Club of Southern California maps in your collection, Sim Moon XP? Those are harder to get and to post here, Morro Bay is the town I lived in since 1995. Do you have any Thomas Bros. Maps of the Pheonix, AZ area and of Portland, OR? Dating back to the 1960s and 1970s? Just wondering if your collections has old ACSC maps too like i do, I have one that dates back to the last 1950s for the Los Angeles County and Vicinity map. I can remember when Interstate 5 was U.S. 99 with bold red double lines running up from the Kern County boundary to Bakersfield. But I need a source where I can see them, etc. LA County no exceptions. --- SCP
Quote from: Roadmapfan66 on April 30, 2011, 05:47:24 PM
I would assume that you dont have any old Automobile Club of Southern California maps in your collection, Sim Moon XP? Those are harder to get and to post here, Morro Bay is the town I lived in since 1995. Do you have any Thomas Bros. Maps of the Pheonix, AZ area and of Portland, OR? Dating back to the 1960s and 1970s? Just wondering if your collections has old ACSC maps too like i do, I have one that dates back to the last 1950s for the Los Angeles County and Vicinity map. I can remember when Interstate 5 was U.S. 99 with bold red double lines running up from the Kern County boundary to Bakersfield. But I need a source where I can see them, etc. LA County no exceptions. --- SCP
Also I want to point out my friend Richard who lives in my neighborhood thinks that U.S. 6 was co-signed with U.S. 99 all the way up to Gorman and the Grapevine Pass area, by taking a reverse N route through Solemint, Acton, Palmdale and Lancaster, he is wrong because Interstate 5 took over that section of U.S. 99 by 1966 and beyond. I dont know where he gets this crazy idea, it sounds a bit far fetched doesnt it?
Scott Presnal
Bigmikelakers and SimMoon XP, cool maps! Thank you for posting those; I thoroughly enjoyed them! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Could either one of you post 1940s, '50s and early '60s pages showing the Glendora/San Dimas/Laverne area (I was born in Glendora) and La Canada Flintridge (I was raised there)?
Quote from: hm insulators on April 30, 2011, 06:08:45 PM
Bigmikelakers and SimMoon XP, cool maps! Thank you for posting those; I thoroughly enjoyed them! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Could either one of you post 1940s, '50s and early '60s pages showing the Glendora/San Dimas/Laverne area (I was born in Glendora) and La Canada Flintridge (I was raised there)?
Here's La Canada from my 1947 Thomas Guide. I would have posted Glendora/San Dimas/La Verne but, that area isn't included in the book.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG-3.jpg&hash=b70b3af65cf5ab59877d713720df21faa71c8fc8)
Quote from: hm insulators on April 30, 2011, 06:08:45 PM
Could either one of you post 1940s, '50s and early '60s pages showing the Glendora/San Dimas/Laverne area (I was born in Glendora) and La Canada Flintridge (I was raised there)?
Here they are from 1959:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx375%2Fdtcomposer%2F1959Glendora.jpg&hash=c59a03d103751bc27c9c43e5eea6b1af7b8616ed)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx375%2Fdtcomposer%2F1959SanDimas.jpg&hash=8ca1f0bafaeb5c940c55db380d6bec079df8f453)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1178.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx375%2Fdtcomposer%2F1959LaVerne.jpg&hash=d42f7ec2bdb9589c350bdb512eda5d3ff7b9c2f9)
I wonder if you have any of the Orange County area Thomas Bros. Atlas showing the proposed, under construction and completed sections of I-405 pass the Laguna Freeway, as well as the Laguna Freeway's proposed route to Laguna Beach 1965 to 1980.
Along with that the proposed route of State Route 65 on the northeast and east side of Sacramento including the proposed Sacramento freeway system consisting of CA 244, CA 143 & CA 148. I remember CA 65 being proposed as an outer bypass for Sacramento as a freeway, that should have got built by now.
Interesting to see the 605 being proposed south of the 405. Would have made a lot of sense to have had it terminate at PCH in Seal Beach. Even today the land is still undeveloped with the exception of the Leisure Village.
SimMoon, can you post the 1969 thomas guide through Long Beach? I see the 22 was supposed to be extended into Long Beach.
That freeway would have made a lot of sense and should have been built. Having it terminate at the 110 would have been fine. I dont know what was with it being proposed into Lomita. Maybe it was supposed to be part of the Pacific Coast Freeway.
Quote from: SimMoonXP on May 02, 2011, 12:00:14 AM
1969 Los Angeles County Proposed Freeway near California Highway 1
Quote from: Bigmikelakers on May 02, 2011, 12:10:59 AM
That freeway would have made a lot of sense and should have been built. Having it terminate at the 110 would have been fine. I dont know what was with it being proposed into Lomita. Maybe it was supposed to be part of the Pacific Coast Freeway.
As someone who would be using this freeway every day (live in downtown LB, work by CSULB, regular projects in Palos Verdes), I actually don't think it's that necessary. Improvements to signal synchronization along 7th, Anaheim and PCH and reconfiguration of the 7th/PCH/Bellflower intersection would be enough to dramatically improve traffic flow across town.
Quote from: SimMoonXP on May 02, 2011, 12:49:26 AM
Have you heard of 1993 The Trimble Atlas?
R6-14
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R6-387
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R6-388
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R6-10
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R6-350
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What is this? I never heard of this. Looks like a national thomas guide.
Where did you get this from? I want it.
I got from Ebay.com in about 5 years ago. What areas you been in USA before?
Nevada (Las Vegas) and Arizona mostly. And a southern Utah (St George).
SimMoon, what routing did I-10 take through Phoenix in '78 before the freeway? Was there some kind of temp street routing? Or was there just a gap?
It sure is interesting to see all these old maps. I love to see historic maps and how things have changed.
I have one request for SimMoonXP and others: Can you please limit the amount of pictures you put in a single post to say 10 or so? There's a lot of high quality images in this thread--including one post that had over 50 (!) images in it alone--and too many on one page may make it difficult to load. My browser got hung up for several minutes just now trying to load everything. Thanks!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG-4.jpg&hash=5a7b1eb2a1495ff979ad83af59cad37b7065b769)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0001-2.jpg&hash=227ea378c3d07463da1f68e23fd24314989f3e8e)
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that half-done junction in Moorpark was going to be a stack? Mental!
Yeah wasn't the 23 supposed to continue north of the 118 and the 118 was supposed to be a freeway west of the 23?
Well, the 23 does still continue north of the 188 to the 126 at Fillmore. Unless you mean it was supposed to continue north as a freeway. I really don't see how that would have been even possible geographically because it would have had to be routed over the mountains, and CA-23 between CA-118 and CA-126 is hardly busy enough to warrant a full freeway.
I could see CA-118 continuing westward to CA-126 as a freeway, though. Currently, LA Ave. gets very busy when US-101 is being hit hard with traffic.
I've been trying to figure out why Santa Clarita did not want to retain the ROW to build out CA-126 as freeway between I-5 and CA-14. I see why they didn't do it in the '70s, but now there's 200,000 people in the area, and it can easily grow to twice that.
Their answer was the Cross Valley Connector, which is just a 6-lane street going through a bunch of subdivisions and shopping malls, so I imagine it's going to be chronically congested in 10 to 15 years if not sooner.
I'm the last person to advocate freeways that aren't warranted by traffic or development, but this seemed like a mistake to cancel. Anyone have any insight?
I forgot I had a 68 Ventura Thomas Guide. I also never knew that the 118 was proposed to head south into Oxnard to meet up with the Pacific Coast Freeway.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg224%2FBigmikelakers%2FIMG_0001-3.jpg&hash=96cf08b522c038e5c17ddb7107f947c020f50315)
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Quote from: DTComposer on May 11, 2011, 01:11:37 AM
I've been trying to figure out why Santa Clarita did not want to retain the ROW to build out CA-126 as freeway between I-5 and CA-14. I see why they didn't do it in the '70s, but now there's 200,000 people in the area, and it can easily grow to twice that.
Their answer was the Cross Valley Connector, which is just a 6-lane street going through a bunch of subdivisions and shopping malls, so I imagine it's going to be chronically congested in 10 to 15 years if not sooner.
I'm the last person to advocate freeways that aren't warranted by traffic or development, but this seemed like a mistake to cancel. Anyone have any insight?
Is the Cross Valley Connector Newhall Ranch Rd/Golden Valley Rd? If so, I'm sure the speed limit is 50mph plus on that road so I guess there really doesnt need to be a freeway built. You also have to take in account the anti freeway people in California as well.
Quote from: Bigmikelakers on May 11, 2011, 03:01:42 AM
Is the Cross Valley Connector Newhall Ranch Rd/Golden Valley Rd? If so, I'm sure the speed limit is 50mph plus on that road so I guess there really doesnt need to be a freeway built. You also have to take in account the anti freeway people in California as well.
Yes, that's it. But even if the speed limit is 50, I don't think there's more than 2 or 3 miles of the 9-plus miles that you could maintain 50. And the major intersections all have large retail centers, which usually make those intersections very congested. I'll have to drive it next time I'm up there.
And yes, I suppose it got killed in the '70s in the middle of the anti-freeway movement, but while I think most of the proposed-but-not-built freeways would have been overkill, this is one of a handful that I think should have at least kept the ROW available for future consideration.
Very cool map of 1968 Ventura County two pages. I would like to see the Title page (1st page), and key map of Ventura County. Thank you.
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Quote from: Bigmikelakers on May 12, 2011, 03:42:03 AM
Image: Thomas Bros. Map - Ventura County Poplar Street Atlas (cover)
Image: Thomas Bros. Map - Ventura County Poplar Street Atlas (page index)
Can you post the pages of the 23/118 jct?
Mod Note: Removed quoted images. Please avoid quoting large images, especially if not referring to them in your reply. Thanks! --roadfro
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It seems if CA-118 was built as a freeway between Oxnard and Moorpark as intended, it would have replaced any need for the current CA-232, as well as extension proposals for CA-34 and CA-259.
I have always wondered why CA-118 didn't simply meet US-101 at what is today CA-232 rather than travel northeast to CA-126 as it currently does, but given those routes are all close together, I guess it doesn't matter too much.
That mapbook is looks like "1967" edition Ventura County for sure. I noticed the only different between 1967 and 1968 edition limited color is the color shades change. I only notice one different from your book is Route 33 freeway at north freeway as extended to Foster Park in 1968 edition Union folded map by thomas bros map for Ventura County. However it doesn't show the proposed 101 freeway in west side of Ventura River bridge. Page 35 and 47 is wondering how does US-101 proposed freeway looks like. Page 36 is wondering about Route 33 freeway as how far go north as Foster Park or more south than that. Page 91 and 92 is never heard that pages numbers before in Ventura County mapbook. It is possible for you scan pages of 35, 36, 47, 91, and 92? Thank you again.
Can you get a scan of the proposed extension of CA 126 Santa Paula Freeway too on pages 40, 41, 30, 31 and 32 please as well as the Conejo Creek Freeway (never got built) pages 42 and 46 for a scan. Cities Santa Paula page 40 and Fillmore page 41. It is too bad that the city of Santa Clarita did not want the Santa Paula Freeway to go through their city! I once lived in Newhall from 1969 to 1978, and Canyon Country/Solemint/Solamint (spelling error on Thomas Bros.) from 1966 to 1969. :pan: :nod:
Scott Presnal
Morro Bay, CA
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Ventura Page 35 looks interesting because on Punta Gorda inset for US-101 freeway never happened, but it is still in expressway status. I am not sure if building a new freeway nearby that place for HOV project.
Ventura Page 36 looks very same but added block numbers on Route 33 Freeway on my 1968 Ventura folded map at Row #3 for your 1967 edition page #36.
Ventura Page 47 looks very interesting because it where the US-101 freeway end just west of Main Street.
Ventura Page 91 and 92 is really cool one as it does show US-399 and US-99 on both map pages. It not show CA-33 and I-5 yet.
The proposed freeway section by Roadmapfan66 pages looks good!
Thank you for showing those images!
May I can see the scanned images of: 1974 Los Angeles and Orange Counties Table of Contents page, 1968 Riverside Page 48, 122-125, 725. Thanks again for those images in Ventura County
Can you post the proposed and under construction sections of the "then" Simi Valley - San Frernando Valley Freeway, California state route 118, from Balboa Blvd. and Interstate 210, the Foothill Freeway, the years of 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977 etc. Including the two interchanges at Interstate 5, Golden State Freeway and Interstate 405, San Diego Freeway in the northern San Fernando Valley, SimMoonXP?
Post Merge: December 31, 1969, 06:59:59 PM
Scott C. Presnal
Morro Bay, CA
Post Merge: May 15, 2011, 09:54:57 PM
Because none of the later editions of H.M. Goshua Maps or Rand McNally maps show the year 1976 in the corresponding San Fernando Valley street maps, for Shell,Texaco or Chevron (HMG) and Mobil, and Union 76 (RMN) showed this segment of CA 118 now as the Ronald Reagan Freeway Under Construction. --- SCP
And off course I get my old Road and Street maps from www.20centurymapscom and my next purchase is this coming Monday,
May 23, 2011 at 4pm!
Scott C. Presnal
Morro Bay, CA
Roadmapfan66, please use the "MODIFY" button if you have additional info you want to add to a post instead of creating a new one a few minutes after the last one (unless somebody replied to your previous post of course). Thank you.
Thank you, but do you have a post 1976 section of the "then" Simi Valley-San Fernando Valley Freeway, "now" Ronald Reagan Freeway like 1978 or 1980. 1982, etc. for example of the same requested area. By the way on Sepulveda Blvd. near that freeway is a BBQ Restaurant, called the "The Bear Pit" opened much way before this freeway opened to traffic in the NW corner of Sepulveda Blvd. and CA 118, the Ronald Reagan Freeway.
SCP
Scott C. Presnal
Morro Bay, CA
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Bigmikelakers,
Thanks for those maps. Beaumont page looks interesting cuz 14th street proposed were not in 1969 edition. Very cool. Palm Spring pages are cool as I can see the old US 60 and US 99 on that page, Palm Drive was brand new road in my 1969 edition, But your mapbook was proposed during that time. On page 725 is interesting one as I can see California route 177, old names before Ramona Expressway, old US 60 route.
It is possible of you can scan pages 20, 32, 74-77, 98-101 for Riverside County section only. Thank you again! I have been enjoying seeing your old 1968 mapbook so far!
I knew about Sepulveda Blvd. extending further north than it does today, but back then, where did it terminate? At Roxford, as the northern portion does today?
Also, do these old guides show the proposed northern extension of the CA-33 freeway? I know it was once planned to extend farther north, although I don't know how much farther.
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Hello, I just joined the site, after I came upon the topic on Thomas Bros. maps. We look at how roads are constructed and the suburban sprawl it generates in the communities shown in the last 60 years of record.
Bigmikelakers, can you find I-10 and state Hwy. 111 in the Palm Springs area (from Banning to Coachella) on your Riverside county guides and post 'em for show please? I happen to live there for 30-31 years now and I seen the area grew and change, but let's see how the "desert" looked way before I was born.
Quote from: Mike D boy on May 16, 2011, 09:32:28 AM
Hello, I just joined the site, after I came upon the topic on Thomas Bros. maps. We look at how roads are constructed and the suburban sprawl it generates in the communities shown in the last 60 years of record.
Bigmikelakers, can you find I-10 and state Hwy. 111 in the Palm Springs area (from Banning to Coachella) on your Riverside county guides and post 'em for show please? I happen to live there for 30-31 years now and I seen the area grew and change, but let's see how the "desert" looked way before I was born.
I think we posted most of that area. Try looking through the previous pages of the thread. If not, I have no problem posting up what you want to see.
Mike D boy's page requests are:
Riverside County Pages: 54-57 Quad, 58-61 Quad, 114-117 Quad, 126-129 Quad, 134, 135, 137, 138-141 Quad. Count of scan would be 8 (Eight). I use my 1969 (dark blue edition) Riverside mapbook to assist you for page number for Mike D boy's request.
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One more request for SimMoonXP, for the area of the Glendale Freeway in your map books to be scanned starting with 1960 or 1962 all the way to 1978 (1980) after construction was completed on CA state route 2, Glendale Freeway through Glendale, CA and Interstate 5 and 210 connections included. There is a Mexican Food Restaurant located near the CA 2 (Glendale Freeway) and CA 134 (Ventura Freeway) where my parents used to take and my brother Steve Presnal out to dinner on Friday nights in the 1970s. :hmmm: :nod:
Scott C. Presnal
Morro Bay, CA
BTW I am updating my 20centurymaps.com list to include 12 maps for the period of May and June 2011, three of them are for the San Fernando Valley, Union 76, etc.
--- SCP
SimMoon, can you post CA 60 Pomona Fwy being proposed and under construction from LA to Pomona?
I have another request: Orange County state freeway project routes 22, 55 and 57 when they were in construction in the late half of the 1960's. About a total of 9 or 10 pages of the Orange County TBM guides, so it shouldn't load too long on the page. Watch the formation of the "Orange Crush" 5-way interchange inside Santa Ana city limits.
Also you may see Angel Field (Anaheim Stadium) appear circa 1965 and to the right of the Orange Freeway: the Honda Center (Arrowhead Pond) around 1993. The city of Orange extends across south of the sports venue sites and claims the City or Mainplace shopping malls.
Wow thanks for that SimMoon!
Quote from: roadfro on May 02, 2011, 04:43:58 AM
It sure is interesting to see all these old maps. I love to see historic maps and how things have changed.
I have one request for SimMoonXP and others: Can you please limit the amount of pictures you put in a single post to say 10 or so? There's a lot of high quality images in this thread--including one post that had over 50 (!) images in it alone--and too many on one page may make it difficult to load. My browser got hung up for several minutes just now trying to load everything. Thanks!
Same here. My browser won't even show most of the maps you were kind enough to upload, and yesterday, I had to reboot the computer; it just would not download the images at all! Perhaps post them one or two at a time.
Post Merge: May 20, 2011, 12:40:29 AM
Thanks for all the maps! I just wish the ones of Glendora and La Canada Flintridge would download properly. Still, it's interesting to watch the greater Los Angeles area grow down through the decades.
I would like to see scans of California State Route 57. the Orange Freeway from your old Thomas Guides from Interstate 5 (U.S. 101) to Interstate 10, and the Former Interstate 210 portion now signed as the Orange Freeway, CA 57 if you dont mind SimMoonXP from whenever the route first appeared on those atlases you have to the under construction and open to traffic stages, post 1975. --- SCP Morro Bay, CA
SimMoonXP can you post before and after construction of the Interstate 5. U.S. 6 & 99 Golden State Freeway from old U.S. 6 Sierra Highway/CA 14 Antelope Valley Freeway to Interstate 10, Santa Monica Freeway. As well as Interstate 10 from Interstate 5 to Santa Monica, before and after under construction segments. (I-5, U.S. 6/99 1954, 1957 1960 etc., to 1966 when U.S. 99 wasn't co-signed to I-5) (I-10, 1960, 1962, 1964 - 1965). --- SCP Still waiting for those scans of CA 57 Orange Freeway before and after construction too.
I remember the rinky-dink little cloverleaf where the 55 tied into the 5 until about 15 years ago. What a joke that was! :pan:
Would it be possible to put only one or two pictures per post instead of a half dozen to a dozen? This computer does not like all your multiple pictures on just one post.
Quote from: hm insulators on June 08, 2011, 04:27:10 PM
I remember the rinky-dink little cloverleaf where the 55 tied into the 5 until about 15 years ago. What a joke that was! :pan:
we actually have this photo from 1986 of signage from that interchange
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Quote from: hm insulators on June 08, 2011, 04:27:10 PM
I remember the rinky-dink little cloverleaf where the 55 tied into the 5 until about 15 years ago. What a joke that was! :pan:
I think that interchange was so bad because it was originally meant to be the Tustin Ave exit from I-5/US 101 according to the 1962 map. However, they probably built the cloverleaf with the future freeway in mind.
I-805 (1968)
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Oh boy! this is gonna be fun. On Historic map works.com, one can read the entire 1956-57 Los Angeles County Thomas guides. http://www.historicmapworks.com/Atlas/US/11559/Los+Angeles+County+1957+Street+Atlas/
The US 99 and 101 freeways, now interstates 5 and 10 wasn't quite around and completion occurred in the late end of the 1950s.
Quote from: Mike D boy on June 09, 2011, 06:52:48 PM
Oh boy! this is gonna be fun. On Historic map works.com, one can read the entire 1956-57 Los Angeles County Thomas guides. http://www.historicmapworks.com/Atlas/US/11559/Los+Angeles+County+1957+Street+Atlas/
The US 99 and 101 freeways, now interstates 5 and 10 wasn't quite around and completion occurred in the late end of the 1950s.
Nice! Thanks for the link!
SimMoonXP do you have any scans of the Golden State Freeway from 1955 era to 1970 from U.S. 6/99 split now CA 14 to Interstate 10 west, Santa Monica Freeway, as another request for Interstate 5, U.S. 6 & 99. Sylmar, San Fernando, Burbank, Glendale, Los Angeles, (Boyle Heights, East Los Angeles)? I would appreciate that to have that happen too, please.
Scott C. Presnal
Morro Bay, CA
I just want to thank everyone for all the posts here. I'm doing updates to California Highways today, and they've been very interesting (most of the historic routings I knew). I do find it interesting that none of the maps posted have shown the extension of Route 14 S from the I-5/Route 14 interchange, continuing down Reseda and across to meet Route 1 near Temescal/Sunset.
with regard to the last map you posted...
Harbor Drive at 8th St was really a full freeway at one point? It's labeled "Montgomery Fwy". Nowadays, though, it is a divided arterial.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 26, 2011, 10:42:34 AM
Harbor Drive at 8th St was really a full freeway at one point? It's labeled "Montgomery Fwy". Nowadays, though, it is a divided arterial.
I've always assumed that that was the case before I-5 was built (when Harbor was US 101). I recall that being the labeling on vintage maps...
What I wonder: with I-5 north of National City now in existence, does that mean that the Harbor/I-5 junction is the official start of the Montgomery Freeway today, or does the designation extend to Route 94?
I wonder if you SimMoonXP have any Thomas Brothers street atlases covering Sacramento for Interstate 5 and Interstate 8, as well as old Interstate 880 from the 1960s to 1970s, you may want to include any such routing for CA state route 65, 244 etc., too.
Scott C. Presnal
Morro Bay, CA
SimMoon, can you post maps of old highway 101 from Oceanside to San Diego from 1961?
Enjoying looking over this thread. Have a few requests of my own, any one have any San Bernardino County TG maps showing the routing of CA 138 pre-Silverwood Lake, when the town of Cedar Springs was still around? Would also love to see some pages of the San Berdo. Mtns, Crestline-Lake Arrowhead mainly. Also, any maps showing the overlap of Hwys 2 and 138 into Crestline? Thnx.
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Quote from: Bigmikelakers on December 30, 2011, 02:56:04 AM
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I guess Cedar Springs
was still around... in a way :-D :-D :-D
Good maps. Should be called Cedar Springs Highway for Route 138 Bypass, but never name for it. And interesting stuff about the reservior water were "site" status. Which should be called Cedar Springs Reservior, but never name for it. My two favorite pages on your recent posts is Page 73 and 76 for your 1968 San Bernardino County Thomas Bros Map Popular Atlas.
Several weeks ago a post was made on the Northeast regional AA forum, and one of thje replies had this link:
http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=8.20197429930843E-06&lat=40.6421517830262&lon=-74.6444428844269&year=1979
The link will take you to a New Jersey arial image, but you can search anywhere in the US and get results. I have spent alot of time viewing old images from San Diego, Oside and Escondido, and had some facinating imagery. Especially note the evolution of routing at the southern end of the Lake Hodges bridge, El Cajon Blvd east of La Mesa and the progress of I-8 eastward. You will have hours of fun.
Crazy even in 1998, Thomas Bros were still using their older format for Phoenix. I thought it would have went to the digital format by then.
Is it me or is the proposed AZ 217 what became part of AZ 202?
Quote from: SimMoonXP on February 06, 2012, 06:36:14 PM
Next Post: Either continue discussing about Phoenix Freeways or proceed to Portland Metro area Freeways (1987 Edition).
A better idea would be to cull all of the scans for one metro area into one thread, while starting a new one for another. Therefore those interested in California, or Phoenix, or Portland can more specifically find the scans of interest.
Downtown Riverside 1968
Old Cloverleaf Interchange and US 60/US 395 still exist in this area. No I-15 yet.
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Quote from: Bigmikelakers on June 27, 2012, 05:58:00 AM
Downtown Riverside 1968
Old Cloverleaf Interchange and US 60/US 395 still exist in this area. No I-15 yet.
surprising. I thought "temp I-15E" was in place on what was to be the 215 corridor by the late 60s.
when did that designation come about?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 27, 2012, 10:46:17 AM
Quote from: Bigmikelakers on June 27, 2012, 05:58:00 AM
Downtown Riverside 1968
Old Cloverleaf Interchange and US 60/US 395 still exist in this area. No I-15 yet.
surprising. I thought "temp I-15E" was in place on what was to be the 215 corridor by the late 60s.
when did that designation come about?
1969. From 1964-1969 I-15 ended at I-10 in San Bernardino (at today's 215/10 junction) while 395 continued on to San Diego. (Faigin's page talks about some of this in depth but I'm not sure if the interpretations of the numbering changes are correct).
What I think happened, solely based on the listed legislative changes - especially the ones noted here http://www.cahighways.org/193-200.html#194 -
1964: I-15 defined to end at I-10 at current 215/10 junction near Colton, 395 continues southward to San Diego along today's 215, 15, and 163. (15 may have been signed several years before the 1964 renumbering)
1969: I-15 extended south along what was then 395, except at the southernmost portion (where the Murphy Canyon/1964 Route 103 corridor was chosen, which included part of the 1930s US 395, as opposed to the 1947-1969 US 395 along Cabrillo Freeway).
1974: Western I-15 alignment in the Inland Empire created using the middle segment of Route 71 (Corona to Temecula) and the entirety of Route 31 (from Corona to Devore). Old US 395/1969 I-15 becomes I-15E/hidden state route 194, signed as Temporary I-15E. (I do not know if I-15E was signed without the "temporary" banner on segments that were already full freeway, i.e. from Devore to Moreno Valley.)
1980: Suffixed spur routes eliminated from Interstate system; the I-35 splits and I-15E are retained.
1982: Route 194/I-15E designations deleted in favor of I-215 (and where old 395 had still not been upgraded, Route 215 until full conversion to limited access in the 1990s).
so, in 1969, the non-freeway sections of the new segment of 15 were signed as "TEMPORARY I-15"? or just plain "I-15"?
there is at least one sign left which has evidence of a state 215 shield under an I-215: Ramona Expressway westbound at I-215.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 27, 2012, 12:04:18 PM
so, in 1969, the non-freeway sections of the new segment of 15 were signed as "TEMPORARY I-15"? or just plain "I-15"?
I'm not sure. I forgot what site - Casey Cooper's? - showed a US 395 text sign from that year.
I will take photo the City of Riverside Page 7 when I gets home tonight. I have 1969, 1971, and 1977 edition. Wonder about 1968 Blythe, CA in Riverside County section.
I still think I-15 should have been kept where it originally was and had the 215 go on the new alignment since it bypasses Riverside and San Bernardino.
HUGE thanks to Bigmikelakers for posting page 7. I wrote him and requested it, because I couldn't remember the location where the UP and the SP shared girder bridge crossed the 91. I first came to California in 1984, have lived in the Inland Empire ever since. For years whenever I'd go into Riverside I'd see that abandoned girder bridge crossing the freeway. I was so used to it, I didn't even notice when they took it away. For the last few years I could have sworn that it was more near to 14th street. In fact, it was just North of 1st Street. With the new interchange now, it's hard to imagine that there was once a rail overpass over the 91 there.
I'D LOVE TO SEE A PICTURE OF THAT OVERPASS BRIDGE IF ANYONE KNOWS WHERE ONE IS. Or any pictures of any UP or SP stations that ever may have existed in Riverside near 1st and Main/Market.
Once in the late 80s I drove up and down La Cadena trying to see where the track once used to come off that bridge. Funny, it's much easier to see now than it was then!
As to the discussion that has ensued just today, I had forgotten about the 15E designation. In 1984 when I first got here, my first Thomas book I bought used was about a 1981 version, and it still had the route marked as 15E. And I could swear that between Devore and San Bernardino there was still signage that said 15E. I lived then (and again live now) near that stretch of freeway.
Jeff
Quote from: JeffNLisa on June 28, 2012, 02:00:11 AM
And I could swear that between Devore and San Bernardino there was still signage that said 15E.
I wouldn't doubt it.
the last "TEMP 15E" sign disappeared sometime between August, 2007 and April, 2008. It was on D Street at CA-74 in Perris - spelled out on a green sign.
Quote from: Bigmikelakers on June 28, 2012, 12:13:26 AM
I still think I-15 should have been kept where it originally was and had the 215 go on the new alignment since it bypasses Riverside and San Bernardino.
I think that relocating I-15 enabled CA to get Federal money to build it and bypass the previous substandard I-15 in San Bernardino and extend south to San Diego. Otherwise CA would have had to pay for the new CA-31 freeway itself. I would have kept the US-395 designation for what became I-215. But everyone knows that I-shield is good for promoting business and civic pride, and that CA started hating when US routes ran concurrent with interstates after 1964.
Do you by any chance have Beaumont to Palm Springs along I-10, from before it was I-10 when it was US 60-70-99 and in Indio when Indio Blvd was US 99? That would be really cool if you could post that.
Does anybody have a photo of the cover of a 1964 Thomas Guide for Los Angeles and/or Orange County? I am looking for one to go with my 64 Impala. Looking at the ebay offerings, it seems some earlier years and other regions did not have the year on the cover. But I have not seen a '64 cover to know if it has the year on it.
Thanks
Quote from: dcairns on April 08, 2013, 03:54:48 PM
Does anybody have a photo of the cover of a 1964 Thomas Guide for Los Angeles and/or Orange County? I am looking for one to go with my 64 Impala. Looking at the ebay offerings, it seems some earlier years and other regions did not have the year on the cover. But I have not seen a '64 cover to know if it has the year on it.
Thanks
1964 Los Angeles and Orange Counties cover without year mark on it.
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1964 Los Angeles County table of Contents page with year on it
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Thanks! As luck would have it, I did bag one off of ebay about a month after posting that. I paid rather dearly at $68, but it is what I needed to go with my 64 Impala. Great fun looking at the way the roads used to be here in OC, when I was 3 years old :D
Quote from: dcairns on June 22, 2013, 11:30:17 PM
Thanks! As luck would have it, I did bag one off of ebay about a month after posting that. I paid rather dearly at $68, but it is what I needed to go with my 64 Impala. Great fun looking at the way the roads used to be here in OC, when I was 3 years old :D
Very cool.
One question is: Do you have any of Thomas Bros mapbooks in your collection?
The '64 is the only one I have "collected" due to it's relevance to my 64 Impala. I have an 2006 a 1993 and somewhere, an 1988 (I think). But those were purchased new to use, and I am something of a packrat ;)
SimMoon, did you have a copy of the Trimble Atlas? That's the one Thomas Bros. map I'm particularly interested in.
Yes I do, What area do you want to see it in photo/scan?
holy crap someone needs to lay off the speed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Guide
Quote from: SimMoonXP on June 24, 2013, 10:07:02 PM
Yes I do, What area do you want to see it in photo/scan?
I'm interested in the entire thing, really.
Nice overlay with the OSM map! It also really shows the strength of the Thomas Bros maps :)
The CA 60/91 I-215 (former US routes 60/91/395) overpass in Riverside was redesigned in recent years, no longer a "cloverleaf" overpass the 1969 and 1977 TBM pages shown. To the left of the Santa Ana river is the new incorporated city of Jurupa Valley. So much changes over the decades and wait until you find older maps of downtown Riverside available online.
The Lake Elsinore area has grown dramatically in the 1980s and 90s, the proximity of Casino Drive and Railroad Canyon Road has shopping centers not found in the 1984 and 1988 TBM, and there's the minor league baseball facility the Diamond (home of the Lake Elsinore Storm) opened in 1994.
http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/view/search?q=Publication_Author=%22Thomas%20Bros.%22
Quote from: Mike D boy on June 30, 2013, 12:44:47 PM
The CA 60/91 I-215 (former US routes 60/91/395) overpass in Riverside was redesigned in recent years, no longer a "cloverleaf" overpass the 1969 and 1977 TBM pages shown. To the left of the Santa Ana river is the new incorporated city of Jurupa Valley. So much changes over the decades and wait until you find older maps of downtown Riverside available online.
The Lake Elsinore area has grown dramatically in the 1980s and 90s, the proximity of Casino Drive and Railroad Canyon Road has shopping centers not found in the 1984 and 1988 TBM, and there's the minor league baseball facility the Diamond (home of the Lake Elsinore Storm) opened in 1994.
The 2013 (39th Edition) San Bernardino & Riverside Counties Thomas Guide coming out in either in July or August 2013 as likely shown the two brand new cities of Eastvale and Jurupa Valley. Both cities located at west side of City of Riverside area but still into Riverside County too.
Look at Bruce Watkins Dr.