As many of your highway geeks, er, enthusiasts know, a ten-mile stretch of Los Angeles' 405 freeway is scheduled to be shut down this coming weekend. We all know how legendary traffic is there. Even with advance warning, who knows how the traffic will really be. Anyhow, what would be areas of your city if a major shutdown were to happen? For Jackson, it would be shutting down the Stack interchange (I-20/I-55/US49). Jackson is not that big, but we saw what could happen last winter when a stretch of the Stack was shut down due to icing on the bridges. It took some people as much as five hours to get through it. At the same time, a number of other bridges, particularly at I-55/I-220 in north Jackson, were shut down too, causing northbound traffic to divert primarily unto State Street (the old US 51). I live right off State Street and I've never seen that many cars on the road. Fortunately, I was going to opposite direction.
I was in San Diego in 2003 when a construction crane accidentally toppled a power line near the I-5/805 interchange, causing the biggest traffic tie-up in the city's history. Thankfully, I didn't own a car or have any reason being in the area.
In Pittsburgh, it would be closing of either the Ft. Pitt Tunnel or the Squirrel Hill Tunnel.
And Super-"Carmageddon" would be both of them closed at the same time, which I think only happened once because of bomb threats for both tunnels at the same time (which included the Liberty Tunnel as well). Happened back in '07.
http://www.wpxi.com/news/13422006/detail.html
Hurricane Charley.
A powerline fell on the Sunset Highway March 14th, 2004, shutting down US 26 and the Blue Line MAX between Portland and Beaverton. With the freeway and light rail closed, traffic got tied up on all roads crossing the Tualatin Mountains -- OR 10 (Capitol Hwy/Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy), OR 8 (Canyon Rd, essentially inaccessible because it branches off the Sunset), W Burnside St and NW Cornell Rd.
It's not this bad whenever a president decides to visit and shut down the Banfield (I-84/US 30--er, "QC 366").
I don't know, but it rhymes with 9.0
In Manistee, MI, this happens quite often when a large freighter or a sailboat goes up the river. Traffic is backed up for hundreds of yards when both bridges are in the open position. There has been an example of a long-term carmageddon, and that happened when the four-lane Memorial Bridge was shut down for rehabilitation back in 2004-05, forcing traffic to either use the two-lane Maple Street Bridge or go miles out of the way (either via Filer City, Stronach, and Eastlake or via Baldwin, Mesick, and Buckley).
Another example was when both routes out of Manistee to the south (US-31 and Quarterline Rd) were washed out due to heavy rains in 2008. It lengthened a normally half-hour (or shorter) trip from Ludington to Manistee to approximately 90 minutes via M-55, M-37, and US-10.
Seems like whenever we get snow, we have a traffic apocalypse. Back in 2008 we got an ice storm on the day of the presidential primary. The Springfield Interchange iced over and people were stuck for four or more hours. This past January a snowstorm hit after it rained all day and washed away the pretreatment stuff on the roads. Result: Hundreds of cars abandoned on the GW Parkway alone and lots of people reporting 13-hour commutes home.
On the whole I'd rather deal with the massive road closures that accompany a presidential inauguration than put up with the nonsense that goes with snow around here. At least with an inauguration you know exactly when it is and they give ample advance warning of exactly what the traffic-management plans are. Can't do that with much certainty in advance of snow.
December 8, 2010 in the St. Louis Metro East was a major carmageddon when a major accident shut down one of the bridges on I-270 right before the morning rush hour. Well, it had to be the Chain of Rocks Bridge, and those 50k vehicles had to go somewhere. It was a 12 mile backup from the Poplar St. Bridge to IL 157 on 55/70 westbound and a five mile backup on IL 143 from the Clark Bridge to Wood River. It took at least 3 hours for people just to cross the river.
Get this: that was not the first carmageddon involving that bridge. Expansion joint failures in August 1994 caused two days of infamous traffic jams during the morning rush.
Oklahoma City's freeway system is robust enough that if any one freeway were shut down there would still be multiple ways of bypassing it. Even if the Dallas Junction (I-35/40/235) were shut down, I-40 traffic could bypass on I-44->I-35 or I-44->240 and I-35 and I-235 traffic could bypass with I-44->I-240. There are tons of surface arterials too so depending on the blockage you might not even need to use a freeway.
Easy. Closing of both the Hampton Roads and Monitor-Merrimac bridge-tunnels. This happened once last summer (I believe on the 4th of July weekend too) when the HRBT's floodgates were stuck open during a test, an accident shut down the Monitor-Merrimac, and the only other crossing of the harbor apart from a ferry, the James River Bridge, was closed due to downed power lines. That day was a traffic hell and everyone remembers it. News articles STILL mention how it was a glaring indication of how these crossings limit the mobility and thus well-being of the region.
Up here in the S.F. Bay Area, closing the Bay Bridge or the Golden Gate Bridge would cause a traffic nightmare. In the case of the Bay Bridge, it actually happened back in 1989 when the Oct 17 earthquake caused a section of the bridge to collapse taking it out of service for weeks.
Wasn't the Bay Bridge also closed for maintenance a couple years back?
Twin Cities: Closing I-94 between the downtowns.
Duluth: Closing I-35 between Grand Ave and I-535.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 12, 2011, 01:27:16 AM
Wasn't the Bay Bridge also closed for maintenance a couple years back?
It was closed over a couple of Labor Day weekends to move temporary road decks into place while the new eastern span is being built but traffic wasn't bad because of the holiday. It was also closed recently when a temporary fix on a damaged I-bar failed causing a chunk of metal and a metal cable came crashing down onto the road deck. IIRC, the closure was only for a couple of days but don't get me wrong, the traffic was bad.
Closing of I-405 between US-101 and I-10 this coming weekend. I'm just going to stay home. I imagine CA-27, I-5 and any other major highway that connects the valley to the rest of LA is going to be raped.
Fort Collins Carmageddon is whenever a train on the BNSF line passes through. Not a single overpass or underpass for cars in the whole town.
Austin is a "build it & they wont come" city so we dont have any east/west freeways as it is, but if both decks of I-35 were out of commission for some reason, Mopac, 183, and Lamar really wouldnt do much to handle the traffic.
In my hometown of Negaunee, MI, we had it happen once that BUS M-28 (Teal Lake Avenue) was closed over a traffic accident by the US 41/M-28 intersection while Baldwin Avenue was shut down for maintenance for the LS&I rail crossing. That even essentially severed the town in two. The only way from the south side of the highway to the north was to take BUS M-28 to Ishpeming and follow the highway back to Negaunee or take CR 480 to M-35 to either CR 492 or US 41/M-28.
A train alone running through town can't tie up both intersections because Teal Lake Avenue has an overpass for the rail line, but the Baldwin Avenue crossing is at-grade. We were hoping several years ago that a connection between Prince Street and CR 491 (Maas Street) would be re-established as a third way across town, but it didn't come to pass.
Carmageddon here would probably be the shutdown of the I-75/285 Cobb Cloverleaf interchange. There's absolutely no alternative that could handle these freeways' traffic in a light time of day, let alone at rush hour.
Around here? Space Shuttle launches and hurricanes. Unfortunately we won't be seeing any more of the former.
The Schuylkill Expressway definitely, as well as NJ 42 in New Jersey between the Walt Whitman Bridge (I-76) and the Atlantic City Expressway would be a nominee for the Philadelphia area. You could argue about I-476, especially the 2 lane portion between I-95 and PA 3 (exit 9).
Rochester, NY:
-I-90 between NY 332 and I-490/NY 96
-The I-590/I-490 interchange
-probably the I-590/I-390 and I-390/I-490 interchanges too
Potsdam, NY:
-Though it's an hour and a half away, I-81 and I-87, due to the inability to go anywhere in the US without these roads. Happens every winter; we might as well join Canada, because it can be reached more consistently
-more locally, US 11, particularly the intersection between US 11/NY 345/Maple St/Clarkson Ave
-probably anywhere in "downtown" Potsdam
Sidney, NY:
-NY 8 between I-88 and NY 7
-probably Delaware Ave, Union St, Main St/Ostego CR 1A, and River St
In Indianapolis, likely the Hyperfix Project in the mid-2000s. They closed off the section of I-65/I-70 between the North and South Splits for some 50 days during the summer to reconstruct the pavement and rebuild bridges (interestingly they kept the button-copy signs.) They reconfigured and rebuilt some of the downtown roads during the time to hold more traffic and advertised it out along the outer freeways. Still, one could drive downtown for rush hour no problem, it was that you couldn't drive through downtown. The project ended ahead of schedule and few people probably still remember it.
If you want a yearly verision of Carmaggedon, there's Race Day (specifically the Indy 500 race day.) Craming 400,000 additional people into the Speedway is no easy task but it somehow gets done. While the interstates don't suffer too much, except along the western leg of I-465, the arterials such as 16th Street, Crawfordsville Road, and Georgetown Road can be bumper to bumper in each direction (even under contraflow conditions.) Native Indianapolis residents know that unless you are attending the race, you DO NOT go on the Westside on Race Day.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2011, 11:44:18 PMOklahoma City's freeway system is robust enough that if any one freeway were shut down there would still be multiple ways of bypassing it. Even if the Dallas Junction (I-35/40/235) were shut down, I-40 traffic could bypass on I-44->I-35 or I-44->240 and I-35 and I-235 traffic could bypass with I-44->I-240. There are tons of surface arterials too so depending on the blockage you might not even need to use a freeway.
Wichita does not have quite the same degree of redundancy. North-south movements are served by I-135 and I-235, which run close enough together that in many parts of the city they are plausible detours for each other, but using I-235, K-96, and the Turnpike in combination to avoid blockages on Kellogg would entail a significant degree of out-of-the-way travel for most of the city. The surface arterials have plenty of spare capacity but accidents on Kellogg still produce long queues since Wichitans in general have become overly dependent on it for cross-town journeys. When Wichita-area traffic problems are mentioned in news media Twitter feeds, Kellogg is involved somehow about four times out of five.
Aside from the freeways, the major source of long tailbacks on city streets used to be the railroad crossings. This is much less of an issue now that the Central Corridor railroad overpass has been finished, though the moiety of rail traffic that still uses the line parallel to Zoo Boulevard can cause long queues during the day.
In CT it would be I-95, but we already had a similiar issue and things were pretty much ok. I-95 was shut down in Bridgeport about 7 years ago due to an accident. They had to replace a bridge and the highway was closed for a couple days. There was so much warning, traffic wasn't as bad as predicted.
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2011, 11:44:18 PM
Oklahoma City's freeway system is robust enough that if any one freeway were shut down there would still be multiple ways of bypassing it. Even if the Dallas Junction (I-35/40/235) were shut down, I-40 traffic could bypass on I-44->I-35 or I-44->240 and I-35 and I-235 traffic could bypass with I-44->I-240. There are tons of surface arterials too so depending on the blockage you might not even need to use a freeway.
It's pretty much the same way in the Twin Cities. I ended up saying I-94 between the downtowns only because of the size of the two cities; it's easy enough just to follow I-494/I-694/MN 36 to I-35E/35W or vice versa to get into or out of a downtown area if I-94 is closed.
Another Twin Cities killer would probably be closing the Fish Lake interchange in Maple Grove.
I-540 between Alma & Fayetteville, AR in the middle of a snow or ice storm.
AHTD won't close the road until trucks get stranded.
In Jacksonville it is the 10/95 merger which has been thankfully rebuilt over the past few years. About 10 years ago a logging truck lost its load on I-95 just north of the merger at the start of the morning rush hour. The logs blocked both the North and Southbound lanes and traffic backed up onto I-10. The logs killed a guy that worked for Bellsouth he was in a company car that got crushed by an avalanche of logs I was working in DT Jax at the time and the normal 5-10 minute drive took over an hour.. THe Interstates were closed and every surface arterial was clogged too
It was supposed to be the closure of the Fort Pitt Bridge/Tunnel for rehab work back in the early 00s, but that wasn't as bad as people expected.
Now that title would shift to the conversion of East Ohio Street, but I won't be surprised if it has the same result as above.
It's funny that the last traffic nightmare in recent history in Hartford was due to snow. And it wasn't last winter with all the record snowfall. A few years ago we got dumped with about a freak of nature storm that dumped a foot of snow on the region. (We expected snow, about 4", not 12") Most of the time whenever we hear about a major snowstorm major employers (The State of CT, Travelers, The Hartford, Cigna, Aetna, etc.) release employees early. Because we didn't know that we were getting a lot of snow most people worked all day. The brunt of the storm hit the City just as the Afternoon Rush began. Cars were stuck on 91 between Hartford and Springfield (20 miles, 30 minutes) for about four to five hours. People abandoned their cars on the road and walked home in the storm, the Governor banned all commercial truck traffic in the state and 84 in Fairfield County was shut down. It was a mess, the storm is always mentioned when talking about major snow, and now employers release employees early whenever snow is mentioned.
In Western Colorado along I-70:
-- Between Palisade & Cameo/CO-65.
-- Between Canyon Creek & West Glenwood Springs.
-- Vail Pass
If any of these areas are closed, you are now looking at 100-200+ mile detours as there are no local back roads that you can use to get around the closures.
There are back roads one can take to bypass Debeque Canyon and Glenwood Canyon, weather permitting. But if you are a semi or RV, you are screwed on the 2 canyon back routes too.
East of Vail, ANYTHING along I-70 would be/usually is carmageddon if there was/is a closure on any given winter weekend.
I'll go with the I-95 Gold Star Bridge in New London, CT. 10 lanes of traffic. If that's closed, everyone gets to drive 9 miles north, on CT 32 or CT 12, to the 2-lane CT 2A bridge. When that clogs up, you can drive another 3 miles north to downtown Norwich.
Before the widening of I-95 in Brevard, the section between FL 520 (King Street) and CR 518 (Fiske Blvd). Once a month a rig would jackknife in that area and you could forget about getting anywhere for at least two to three hours if you were trapped on that section. Pubcrawling through West Cocoa and Rockledge via King Street and Fiske blew chunks.
The major bottleneck would be if the I-95/FL 528 intersection went away-there goes one of your two major north-south routes and one of three major east-west routes. No, I don't even want to think about it.
Quote from: DeaconG on July 12, 2011, 10:35:30 PM
Before the widening of I-95 in Brevard, the section between FL 520 (King Street) and CR 518 (Fiske Blvd). Once a month a rig would jackknife in that area and you could forget about getting anywhere for at least two to three hours if you were trapped on that section. Pubcrawling through West Cocoa and Rockledge via King Street and Fiske blew chunks.
The major bottleneck would be if the I-95/FL 528 intersection went away-there goes one of your two major north-south routes and one of three major east-west routes. No, I don't even want to think about it.
My sister has a friend from high school that lives near the 95/528 area, and you can only imagine that bottleneck on US 1 and FL 50 that could happen. It was bad enough during those shuttle liftoffs.
Quote from: thenetwork on July 12, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
East of Vail, ANYTHING along I-70 would be/usually is carmageddon if there was/is a closure on any given winter weekend.
it was not a Carmageddon situation, but two weekends ago I saw traffic in Colorado backed up over 20 miles - wasn't a winter situation either ... so, tell me, what failure of design caused I-70 to be backed up from the 70/6 split (Eisenhower Tunnel vs Loveland Pass) all the way west to Glenwood Canyon, about 100 miles west?
this is the summer. why are we so enthusiastic in demonstrating winter behavior?
Charleston isn't that big, but I-64 from its "split" (what the locals call it) with I-77 out 10 of 15 miles toward Huntington carries the highest traffic loads in the state, and the alternates are just the surface streets that are not any different from when the interstate was built decades ago and which already carry more traffic than they can handle.
In Grand Rapids, when Rodrick Dantzler went on his rampage last week, I-96 was closed between US-131 and I-196. At least there are two freeways to get traffic from I-96 to US-131 on the east side of Grand Rapids.
Also, when US-131 was closed between I-196 and Wealthy St for reconstruction of the S-Curve a few years ago, forcing through traffic onto already crowded M-11 and M-37.
Before M-6 opened, trying to get down M-11 (especially between Kalamazoo Ave and I-96) on any evening was almost impossible. Thankfully, it has improved.
Go over to Grand Haven, where if there is an accident on US-31 or if the drawbridge breaks down, traffic is in for a very long detour and long traffic backups. The US-31 bridge is six lanes, while the next bridge inland (68th Ave) is only two lanes.
Any state highway in Traverse City during the summer.
There would be one if the US-31/I-96 interchange in Muskegon went offline for a traffic accident. There is no easy way to get around this interchange.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 13, 2011, 12:44:22 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 12, 2011, 08:25:03 PM
East of Vail, ANYTHING along I-70 would be/usually is carmageddon if there was/is a closure on any given winter weekend.
it was not a Carmageddon situation, but two weekends ago I saw traffic in Colorado backed up over 20 miles - wasn't a winter situation either ... so, tell me, what failure of design caused I-70 to be backed up from the 70/6 split (Eisenhower Tunnel vs Loveland Pass) all the way west to Glenwood Canyon, about 100 miles west?
this is the summer. why are we so enthusiastic in demonstrating winter behavior?
It's called running six lanes worth of traffic through four lanes of canyons, ledges and tunnels.
Here in NE Wisconsin, overall it would be whenever the US 41 Lake Butte des Morts causeway in Oshkosh goes down - the city street detour routings have nowhere near the traffic-carrying capacity to take over. IMHO, it is one of the Top Ten™ weaknesses in the entire State of Wisconsin highway system.
In the City of Appleton itself, it is whenever a CN train stalls while passing through downtown. An average long one will cut the entire city in half with only two grade separations as clear alternatives, one on a street several blocks from the downtown area that prohibits trucks and has a low clearance and the other on a major street, but far away from the downtown area and inconvenient to it.
Mike
In Montreal:
Scenario 1: Two major bridges closed.
Reality: Chances of this happening are increasing. Half of the Mercier bridge is on an emergency closure until September while Champlain is having major construction work in progress, and has closures in weekends. Jacques-Cartier has closures every Saturday night because of the nearby fireworks.
Scenario 2: Turcot interchange collapses.
Reality: Lanes are closed from A-720 WB, also for emergency repairs. The structure shows its age a lot.
Columbus (at least, the north side) would be crippled pretty soundly by a shutdown of I-270 between (for example) Sawmill Rd and Cleveland Ave. Even if the closure was limited to between OH 315 and I-71 it would be bad, but I think the former scenario is slightly more likely. The closest alternate routes would have to be OH 161 and OH 750, which would jam, with additional congestion on Sawmill Rd / Sawmill Pkwy, Hard Rd, Morse Rd, Henderson Rd, Cooke Rd, Cleveland Ave, OH 3, and North Broadway. I-670 would probably also see significant additional traffic over its entire length, and that road really isn't designed to accommodate a lot of through traffic downtown.
A major closure on the Innerbelt would be a significant inconvenience, but its ring structure lends itself to redundancy. We did OK in 2001-2003 when the north and west legs were being rebuilt. We'll do OK when the east and south legs are rebuilt in 2011-20??, though I suspect that will somehow be done without completely closing I-70 or I-71 for any significant period of time.
Carmageddons by area, if these highways were closed:
Ann Arbor: I-94 from M-14 to US-23
Benton Harbor-St. Joseph: I-94 from M-63 to I-196
Detroit (downtown): I-75 from I-96 to I-94
Detroit (east side): I-94 from I-696 to M-59
Detroit (north side): I-75 from I-696 to M-59 or anywhere along I-696
Detroit (south side): I-75 from US-24 connector to Detroit city limits
Detroit (west side): I-94 from I-275 to US-24
Flint: I-75 from US-23 to I-475 (north)
Grand Haven: US-31 over the Grand River
Grand Rapids: US-131 from M-6 to I-96
Kalamazoo: I-94 from US-131 to BL I-94 (east)
Jackson: I-94 while concurrent with US-127
Lansing: I-96 while concurrent with I-69
Muskegon: US-31 from I-96 to M-120
Saginaw: I-75 between I-675
Traverse City: US-31 from South Airport Rd to Three Mile Rd
Can't really think of one for NYC - there's a decent amount of redundancy. The only thing that would be similar to a Carmageddon is when the MTA workers strike.
Quote from: ftballfan on July 13, 2011, 10:50:01 PM
Carmageddons by area, if these highways were closed:
Ann Arbor: I-94 from M-14 to US-23
Benton Harbor-St. Joseph: I-94 from M-63 to I-196
Detroit (downtown): I-75 from I-96 to I-94
Detroit (east side): I-94 from I-696 to M-59
Detroit (north side): I-75 from I-696 to M-59 or anywhere along I-696
Detroit (south side): I-75 from US-24 connector to Detroit city limits
Detroit (west side): I-94 from I-275 to US-24
Lansing: I-96 while concurrent with I-69
Saginaw: I-75 between I-675
There are far too many redundancies in these areas to allow for a Carmageddon situation.
Quote from: nyratk1 on July 14, 2011, 03:09:20 AM
Can't really think of one for NYC - there's a decent amount of redundancy. The only thing that would be similar to a Carmageddon is when the MTA workers strike.
I would have thought that the traffic would mean that any closure in NYC would result in Carmageddon.
Birmingham's carmageddon would be I-65 getting closed down. There is no other freeway going through the metro going north and south and your only choice is local streets, just looking at the construction on I-65 causing traffic jams daily, i could not imagine the nightmare.
It won't be that bad now that Jet Blue is running non-stop flights between Burbank and Long Beach for $4 this weekend.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/us-carmageddon-jetblue-idUSTRE76D4GK20110714
Best Cajun imitation of "Carmageddon"?? How about if I-10 between Lafayette and Baton Rouge through the Atchafalaya Basin was to close down in both directions??
The alternative is (from W to E) I-49 north to Opelousas, then US 190 east to LA 415, then LA 415 south to I-10 just west of Port Allen.
I-49 is adequate as it is...but US 190, though 4 lanes throughout, is virtually non-controlled access, and worse, it goes through plenty of local towns (Port Barre, Krotz Springs, Livonia, Erwinville) where the local traffic can get snarled up with the detoured mainline traffic.
I still have bad memories of three years ago when an oil well that was placed right on the side of I-10 near the Whiskey Bay Channel Bridge caught fire and forced the detour onto I-49/US 190 for 3 days. Two words: HOT. MESS.
Strangely enough, the route is well labeled on both I-49 and US 190, and there is even a VMS system in place to warn motorists of when the alternative detour is being put in effect...but that doesn't change how much of a nightmare it is.
Anthony
Quote from: Bickendan on July 11, 2011, 10:35:38 PM
A powerline fell on the Sunset Highway March 14th, 2004, shutting down US 26 and the Blue Line MAX between Portland and Beaverton. With the freeway and light rail closed, traffic got tied up on all roads crossing the Tualatin Mountains -- OR 10 (Capitol Hwy/Beaverton-Hillsdale Hwy), OR 8 (Canyon Rd, essentially inaccessible because it branches off the Sunset), W Burnside St and NW Cornell Rd.
This is nothing more than the usual traffic nonsense in this town. A traffic accident will do the same thing. Carmageddon was the second week in February of 1996 (The Great Flood of '96). All of these were happening at the same time for a week (several for weeks).
-- I-84 closed completely by mudslide at Exit 35 forcing all traffic to/from the east through Government Camp (US-26, OR-35).
-- I-5 closed, except for the SB breakdown lane, by mudslide just south of Longview/Kelso, WA forcing traffic to wait for hours or use US-30 (2-lane).
-- I-5 closed by high water north of Salem forcing traffic onto OR-99E/OR-99W.
-- US-26 closed WB through the west hills by mudslide between the Vista Ridge Tunnel and the Zoo exit forcing PM rush hour traffic to the west side onto 2-lane routes through the hills (Cornell, Burnside, Beaverton-Hillsdale).
-- 2 of the 5 downtown drawbridges that used electrical mechanisms for lifting the bridge forced to be in the up and locked position so that loss of the electical systems due to flooding wouldn't lock the bridges in the down position.
-- The 2-lane ramp from I-5 NB to I-84 closed due to high water (it's slightly lower than the I-5 mainline at its lowest point) backing up through the storm drains forcing traffic north to Broadway (the next exit NB) for a U-turn back to the 1-lane ramp from I-5 SB to I-84 (or through downtown.
All the while, it's raining 2 inches per day for 4 days in a row.
--Andy
Quote from: realjd on July 14, 2011, 02:01:54 PM
It won't be that bad now that Jet Blue is running non-stop flights between Burbank and Long Beach for $4 this weekend.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/us-carmageddon-jetblue-idUSTRE76D4GK20110714
That can't possibly be a money maker!
Quote from: vtk on July 14, 2011, 04:51:55 PM
Quote from: realjd on July 14, 2011, 02:01:54 PM
It won't be that bad now that Jet Blue is running non-stop flights between Burbank and Long Beach for $4 this weekend.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/us-carmageddon-jetblue-idUSTRE76D4GK20110714
That can't possibly be a money maker!
It's a publicity stunt and probably a loss leader as well where they figure some people might try it for kicks and then find that they like the airline. Basically a way to try to get some repeat business in the future.
Problem is, you'll spend more time standing on line at the TSA checkpoint than you will on the flight itself. It's about 37 miles by road, but it's shorter than that as the Airbus flies.
(The shortest scheduled flight in the world is by BA affiliate Loganair from Westray to Papa Westray in the Orkney Islands. It takes all of about two minutes. The pilot looks across the strait to check the wind direction at the destination "airport"–which is in fact a beach–before taking off.)
Worth $4 to get molested by TSA?
Quote from: texaskdog on July 14, 2011, 05:32:30 PM
Worth $4 to get molested by [the] TSA?
Not to me, but CNN reports that the flights sold out very quickly.
Quote from: realjd on July 14, 2011, 02:01:54 PM
It won't be that bad now that Jet Blue is running non-stop flights between Burbank and Long Beach for $4 this weekend.
Sounds like a promotion you'd hear on the old Rowan & Martin's Laugh In.
[Gary Owens] Hey Long Beach, now you can fly non-stop to Beautiful Downtown Burbank! [/Gary Owens]
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 14, 2011, 05:02:10 PM(The shortest scheduled flight in the world is by BA affiliate Loganair from Westray to Papa Westray in the Orkney Islands. It takes all of about two minutes. The pilot looks across the strait to check the wind direction at the destination "airport"–which is in fact a beach–before taking off.)
The pilot would need good eyesight (http://maps.google.com/?ll=59.353277,-2.952919&spn=0,0.077162&z=14&layer=c&cbll=59.353268,-2.952742&panoid=Yt-3BwlvAEulUDZfdt9wWw&cbp=12,77.11,,0,7.78) to do that! Seeing a windsock at the distance of 1.7 miles is quite hard.
What gets me is that there are two passenger ferries, and a lift on vehicle ferry between the two islands, so what's the point of a plane flight. IIRC, the smaller Papa Westray (pop ~70) has the primary school, and Westray (pop ~560) has the secondary school, so there used to be some people who went to school in a plane, but I don't know now (the ferry would be cheaper and nearer for most people on the islands, and the schools) as the children that did it would be either at the school on their island, or not at school at all now. When they did, as the flight was only twice daily, the three of them took up a third of the seats.
a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q08N2b-FBng).
Oh, and neither airport is a beach - that's Barra - these are gravel runways on airfields.
Back on topic, I guess the M25 closing would cause a nightmare, but the places where it really does screw up the works via a lack of redundancy (eg western Surrey, crossing the Thames) are already snarled up anyway, so it's doubly bad.
In Albany, we're about to witness our own Carmageddon, with the South Mall Expressway that leads into/under the Empire State Plaza being closed due to emergency reasons through the end of July.
english si, I know I read the thing about looking at the windsock somewhere. Maybe he's supposed to use binoculars? (Of course the writer could have been wrong or exaggerating too.)
A catastrophe involving the Clays Ferry Bridge (carrying I-75 and US 25/US 421 across the Kentucky River south of Lexington) would probably qualify.
I remember in the mid-1990s, I-75 was being widened and that widening included the Clays Ferry Bridge. There was an incident involving a crane and the road had to be closed overnight one night. The detour was KY 627 from Exit 95 to I-64 at Winchester. We were living in Winchester in a duplex that overlooked KY 627, and traffic was bumper-to-bumper all evening and night.
NOLA Area Scenario 1: Shut down I-10 between Williams and I-610. Airline Highway and the east-west arteries would be a mess, especially West Esplanade and West Napoleon.
NOLA Area Scenario 2: Shut down both the Huey P. Long Bridge and Crescent City Connection. The ferries wouldn't keep up and everybody has to go west to I-310 to get across the river.
Pensacola, Florida had its when Hurricane Ivan knocked out the Escambia Bay Bridges of Interstate 10. When the eastbound span was put back together with temporary elements, it was narrowed to one lane with extremely low speed limits for trucks and 40 mph for everyone else. Eastbound back-ups stretched up to three miles EVERYDAY:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southeastroads.com%2Fflorida010%2Fi-010_eb_ivan_02.jpg&hash=34549d9e6f3f4f8551be157e7ff89fa5f1ac02c5)
To make matters worse, the right-hand lane was converted into a make-shift weigh station!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southeastroads.com%2Fflorida010%2Fi-010_eb_ivan_05.jpg&hash=ed92d0c8fb0a9bb9054b0ee04776d97ba65245b0)
Additionally, wide-loads were required to take long detours, other trucks (as directed by the weigh station) and traffic would use U.S. 90 across the north edge of the bay. U.S. 90 doubles as a congested commuter route between Pensacola and Pace/Milton, so you can imagine how great of a ride that was.
If you were driving westbound, it was not bad, as two lanes were maintained. This configuration lasted until 2006!
Edit - forgot about the ridiculous weigh station built into the main lanes...
^^^^ I know it wasn't funny at the time to people stuck in the backup, but that "Your Speed 7" sign is probably the funniest thing I've seen yet today.
In Chicago it would be the Kennedy, Eisenhower, or Dan Ryan Expressways
Stephen Colbert's report on L.A.'s 405 closure (http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/391987/july-14-2011/carmaggeddon).
Quote from: Chicagosuburban on July 15, 2011, 12:10:27 PM
In Chicago it would be the Kennedy, Eisenhower, or Dan Ryan Expressways
You mean the Circle Interchange going down? Probably.
Mike
Our Carmageddons? The JEFFERSON DAVIS HY in Aiken County; the Palmetto Pwky/Bobby Jones Expwy in Augusta, Ga. and North Augusta; North Road and John C. Calhoun Drive in Orangeburg; and Deans Bridge Road, Windsor Spring Road, Walton Way and Gordon Hy in Augusta, Ga.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 14, 2011, 05:02:10 PM
Problem is, you'll spend more time standing on line at the TSA checkpoint than you will on the flight itself. It's about 37 miles by road, but it's shorter than that as the Airbus flies.
Actually, taking approach patterns into account, it might actually be longer as the Airbus flies. Crows, on the other hand, aren't subject to air traffic control.
Akron-Canton carmageddons:
1. Closure of I-76/77. The eastbound lanes were closed down earlier this month for repaving and bridgework. The westbound will be subject to the same thing for two weeks.
http://www.ohio.com/news/local/odot-to-shut-down-i-76-77-in-akron-1.225158 (http://www.ohio.com/news/local/odot-to-shut-down-i-76-77-in-akron-1.225158)
2. Closure of SR 8.
The only Cleveland carmageddon is the I-90 Innerbelt bridge
Cincinnati carmageddons:
1. Closure of the Brent Spence Bridge. Imagine having to go use I-275 to either I-471 or going around it outright if something was wrong with the bridge.
2. Closure of I-75
3. Closure of I-71's Fort Washington Way
The only Columbus carmageddon is the closure of I-70/I-71 split (the curve only, not the one with SR 315)
Quote from: The Premier on July 15, 2011, 10:08:00 PM
The only Columbus carmageddon is the closure of I-70/I-71 split (the curve only, not the one with SR 315)
You mean the East Split? I suppose that would be quite problematic, making the East Freeway rather unusable. The alternate would have to be I-670 past the airport, and that already jams in rush hour.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 15, 2011, 11:52:05 AM
^^^^ I know it wasn't funny at the time to people stuck in the backup, but that "Your Speed 7" sign is probably the funniest thing I've seen yet today.
Psh, I can beat that with a "Your Speed 6" sign. :sombrero:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FInterstates%2FPA%2FI-80%2FIm001829s.jpg&hash=fa7f3d9f04a7240fd811279c7c157eb93377d595)
This was on I-80 in PA. Traffic was at a complete standstill because they were putting the construction zone up in the middle of the afternoon. They even had to have a Trooper driving the wrong way on the shoulder of EB I-80 to let people know traffic was completely stopped!
Quote from: Alex on July 15, 2011, 11:12:51 AM
Pensacola, Florida had its when Hurricane Ivan knocked out the Escambia Bay Bridges of Interstate 10. When the eastbound span was put back together with temporary elements, it was narrowed to one lane with extremely low speed limits for trucks and 40 mph for everyone else. Eastbound back-ups stretched up to three miles EVERYDAY:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southeastroads.com%2Fflorida010%2Fi-010_eb_ivan_02.jpg&hash=34549d9e6f3f4f8551be157e7ff89fa5f1ac02c5)
To make matters worse, the right-hand lane was converted into a make-shift weigh station!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southeastroads.com%2Fflorida010%2Fi-010_eb_ivan_05.jpg&hash=ed92d0c8fb0a9bb9054b0ee04776d97ba65245b0)
Additionally, wide-loads were required to take long detours, other trucks (as directed by the weigh station) and traffic would use U.S. 90 across the north edge of the bay. U.S. 90 doubles as a congested commuter route between Pensacola and Pace/Milton, so you can imagine how great of a ride that was.
If you were driving westbound, it was not bad, as two lanes were maintained. This configuration lasted until 2006!
Edit - forgot about the ridiculous weigh station built into the main lanes...
Further east along the Emerald Coast, Carmageddon would involve the closing of the Brooks Bridge on US 98 in Fort Walton Beach, FL. US 98 is the only highway connecting Fort Walton Beach and beach towns east. The detour would involve moving the 98 traffic onto FL 85 and FL 189 north to FL 20 east at Niceville. All these highways are already very busy and I suspect US 98 traffic would nearly double the traffic count. FL 20 east of Niceville narrows to one lane each direction and US 331 south (to get back to 98) is also a dangerous 2 lane road.
Tugboats pushing barges are routine in the Intercoastal Waterway that the Brooks Bridge spans so "it could happen tomorrow!"
Not sure if NYC has been done, but one of the worst realistic (and non-coincidental) outcomes would be a structural failure at the Highbridge Interchange, shutting down I-95, I-87, and any connections between them. Think of this: all trucks heading east would either have to use I-287 all the way around NJ to the Tappan Zee (which itself is ready to fail), or stall through the GWB and have to exit into Manhattan, using whatever bridge can hold them into the Bronx. Billions of dollars a day, if not an HOUR, would be lost in commerce.
Quote from: The Premier on July 15, 2011, 10:08:00 PM
3. Closure of I-71's Fort Washington Way
It wouldn't be THAT bad. I remember when it was closed for rehab a few years ago and the Norwood Lateral was the detour. Things weren't that messed up in Cincy.
San Angelo:
Say an alien comes from space, they hate minor, and secondary roads. They wipe them out, but let people get on the "freeway" here (Houston Harte). Then we might actually get a little traffic! Haha, well I guess if anything happened to US 67 here and closed it, it would divert to access roads, which would be a mess.
BigMatt
a carmageddon in Hilton Head, SC would involve closing the first US 278 bridge that crosses the Intracoastal Waterway to the Island itself (not the toll bridge, not the bridge further in the lsland). There is no other way out unless it is boat. (I got relatives that live near the island but work on the island.)
Quote from: mgk920 on July 15, 2011, 03:04:07 PM
Quote from: Chicagosuburban on July 15, 2011, 12:10:27 PM
In Chicago it would be the Kennedy, Eisenhower, or Dan Ryan Expressways
You mean the Circle Interchange going down? Probably.
Mike
You can at least go around the Circle. Now the Tri-State on the other hand...
We already have our own "carmageddon" of sorts in Will County with I-80 under the knife as well as US-30
AT THE SAME FREAKING TIME.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Thanks a lot, IDiOT.
The Mackinac Bridge, enough said. Detours would involve going through either Chicago or Canada.
Detroit's only real Carmageddon would be the Ambassador Bridge into Canada. I say that because Detroit is known for regularly closing entire stretches of freeways at a time. If something were to happen to the Moron, er Moroun bridge, before the new crossing is complete, most trucks would have to ride I-94 to Port Huron for crossing into Canada as the Detroit/Windsor Tunnel prohibits most, if not all trucks.
Meanwhile the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel and moreso the related surface streets on the Windsor side would be gridlocked by cars.
At least the Blue Water is twinned now, so the carmageddon factor has been eased in the last couple of decades.
I don't think it is possible for Detroit to have a carmageddon. If you shut down every downtown freeway, all four remaining residents would shrug and go back to sleep in their shopping carts.
Seattle would probably be an extended closure of I-5 through downtown, or the closure of either the I-90 or SR520 bridges during a rush hour. 520 has been closed at times for full weekends (including recently), and 90 sees a full shutdown for the Seafair weekend, and it don't typically result in carmageddon.
Quote from: ftballfan on July 16, 2011, 09:33:02 AM
The Mackinac Bridge, enough said. Detours would involve going through either Chicago or Canada.
I was thinking about that one too, although I wonder if/when the bridge does have to be shut down if there will be a temporary ferry service provided or something. There is no way that anyone can be reasonably expected to make a detour of that magnitude.
The more I think about it, the North Front Range/Southern Wyoming Carmageddon would be the closure of I-80 between Laramie and Cheyenne. The traffic had to be detoured all the way down to Fort Collins because there are no alternative routes nearby.
NJ's already happened in the summer of 2001 when a tanker truck fire melted a culvert carrying I-80 westbound over a local stream in Denville. Took them a few days to get a temporary Bailey Bridge up and the highway was snarled in traffic all summer due to 4 lanes having to cram into 2. The worst case scenario for the state however would be if the Pulaski Skyway collapsed onto the NJ Turnpike and took out both spurs. traffic would sit for days, and the alternate/detour routes simply can't handle the volume or are completely out of the way.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 14, 2011, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on July 14, 2011, 05:32:30 PM
Worth $4 to get molested by [the] TSA?
Not to me, but CNN reports that the flights sold out very quickly.
Given the price of gas, that's a steal!
Atlanta had a bit of a Carmageddon ten years ago when a tanker truck on Georgia 400 crashed and burned the I-285 bridge above it. Thankfully, it happened late Friday night/early Saturday morning. However, there was still a gridlock on 285. Some people tried to take advantage by selling (gouging) motorists for bottles of water and sodas.
Highway 401- Toronto.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fd%2Fdf%2FEvacuated_Highway_401_Color.jpg%2F800px-Evacuated_Highway_401_Color.jpg&hash=84aa539ccd677c9b0c090c0e4447a760448e991f)
Quote from: haljackey on July 16, 2011, 05:33:16 PM
Highway 401- Toronto.
[401 with one single car on it]
was that because of that plane crash, or something else?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 16, 2011, 12:03:15 PM
I don't think it is possible for Detroit to have a carmageddon. If you shut down every downtown freeway, all four remaining residents would shrug and go back to sleep in their shopping carts.
rotflmao!!! That was good!
Quote from: doofy103 on July 12, 2011, 05:03:38 PM
In CT it would be I-95, but we already had a similiar issue and things were pretty much ok. I-95 was shut down in Bridgeport about 7 years ago due to an accident. They had to replace a bridge and the highway was closed for a couple days. There was so much warning, traffic wasn't as bad as predicted.
When I was working down that way, they sent us around via I-84 and Route 7 to get from the greater Hartford area to SW CT. We were expecting much worse.
The present situation in CT is the Arrigoni Bridge project which has that bridge down to 1 lane each way. However, so far so good, though the project just started and will last until Fall '12.
But a disasterous issue would be something happening at the I-84/I-91 interchange in Hartford, or at the I-95/I-91 interchange in New Haven, both carry a ton of traffic and a problem at one interchange would affect 2 major interstate routes.
Another for NE Wisconsin, SB US 41 going down (ie, if there would be a multi-vehicle pileup) south of Ashland Ave in the De Pere area after a Green Bay Packer home game. It normally takes about three hours for post-game traffic to dissipate in that direction.
Mike
QuoteThe more I think about it, the North Front Range/Southern Wyoming Carmageddon would be the closure of I-80 between Laramie and Cheyenne. The traffic had to be detoured all the way down to Fort Collins because there are no alternative routes nearby.
That happens all the time though in the winter. No carmageddon, just minor annoyance- I've had to go Laramie-> Cheyenne via Wheatland before. For locals it's a non-issue.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 16, 2011, 06:16:24 PM
Quote from: haljackey on July 16, 2011, 05:33:16 PM
Highway 401- Toronto.
[401 with one single car on it]
was that because of that plane crash, or something else?
It was something else Jake. That's nowhere near the Airport.
Quote from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401) (which has the same picture):
QuoteOn August 10, 2008, following a series of explosions at a propane facility in Toronto, Highway 401 was closed between Highway 400 and Highway 404 as a precautionary measure, the largest closure of the highway in its history.[117] The highway remained closed until 8 p.m., though several exits near the blast remained closed thereafter.[118][119]
I would have to concur with Brandon about I-80 in Joliet at the present time. The construction zone officially is from the Will/Grundy Co Line to US 45. However, from Larkin to Richards, I-80 is down to 1 lane each way over the Des Plaines. This construction coinciding with the US 30 work zone and any barge traffic raising the draw bridges in downtown Joliet make that area a nightmare. Yesterday, when i was going to Detroit, and my friend was driving, for some reason we took I-80 from I-55 and headed east. It took about 30 minutes to get from Larkin to US 30.
Quote from: RustyK on July 16, 2011, 01:18:36 PM
Seattle would probably be an extended closure of I-5 through downtown, or the closure of either the I-90 or SR520 bridges during a rush hour. 520 has been closed at times for full weekends (including recently), and 90 sees a full shutdown for the Seafair weekend, and it don't typically result in carmageddon.
That sort of happened a couple of years ago, when they closed all but 1-2 lanes of northbound I-5 at a time south of downtown for repaving. The local media treated it similarly to Carmageddon, and King County Metro (public transit) rerouted all of their buses to SR 99, but if I recall correctly, people heeded the warnings and it turned out similar to this I-405 thing. Extra delays at times, but nothing terribly disastrous or deserving of a clever moniker.
Quote from: golden eagle on July 11, 2011, 10:21:45 PM
As many of your highway geeks, er, enthusiasts know, a ten-mile stretch of Los Angeles' 405 freeway is scheduled to be shut down this coming weekend. We all know how legendary traffic is there. Even with advance warning, who knows how the traffic will really be. Anyhow, what would be areas of your city if a major shutdown were to happen? For Jackson, it would be shutting down the Stack interchange (I-20/I-55/US49). Jackson is not that big, but we saw what could happen last winter when a stretch of the Stack was shut down due to icing on the bridges. It took some people as much as five hours to get through it. At the same time, a number of other bridges, particularly at I-55/I-220 in north Jackson, were shut down too, causing northbound traffic to divert primarily unto State Street (the old US 51). I live right off State Street and I've never seen that many cars on the road. Fortunately, I was going to opposite direction.
I was in San Diego in 2003 when a construction crane accidentally toppled a power line near the I-5/805 interchange, causing the biggest traffic tie-up in the city's history. Thankfully, I didn't own a car or have any reason being in the area.
I live in a small town 2 hours east of the 405, but if the main highway the CA 62 was shut down, that would cause problems, as it's the only way in or out.
For Las Vegas I would guess if I-15 was shut down.