http://www.rrstar.com/news/x1249727817/In-Sundays-paper-Tolls-might-be-best-way-to-expand-U-S-20 (http://www.rrstar.com/news/x1249727817/In-Sundays-paper-Tolls-might-be-best-way-to-expand-U-S-20)
http://www.rrstar.com/carousel/x1186097781/Chuck-Sweeny-U-S-20-freeway-is-no-longer-worth-pursuing
Probably the more realitic suggestion. I would add that US 20 with a continuous passing lane would solve all the problems. The billion is low allready The Galena Bypass alone is up to 250 million. I do not see where the toll money comes from. There have been 2 previous downtate toll studies (I-24 extension and Chicago -Kansas City) Neither were feasable. I suspect if IDOT offered a 3 lane to everybody or a future dream I think most would take the 3 lane now
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-07-14/html/2011-17709.htm
Another part of teh US 20 plan was cancelled . This would have curved the corridor south from Souix City to Norfolk down to I-80
Quote from: 3467 on July 14, 2011, 05:41:50 PM
http://www.rrstar.com/carousel/x1186097781/Chuck-Sweeny-U-S-20-freeway-is-no-longer-worth-pursuing
Probably the more realitic suggestion. I would add that US 20 with a continuous passing lane would solve all the problems. The billion is low allready The Galena Bypass alone is up to 250 million. I do not see where the toll money comes from. There have been 2 previous downtate toll studies (I-24 extension and Chicago -Kansas City) Neither were feasable. I suspect if IDOT offered a 3 lane to everybody or a future dream I think most would take the 3 lane now
Part of US 20 is basically three lane west of Freeport - due to climbing lanes - and at least in tourist season could use an upgrade to a four lane design. The existing four lane section between IL 84 and Dubuque could use a new set of eastbound lanes on a better alignment.
Suicide lanes do not work that well on high speed rural highways for obvious reasons. Operationally they improve things slightly, but you will be reading a lot about some messy crashes if this idea is ever pursued. Especially with the hilly terrain between Galena and Freeport. A series of one way passing lanes would be better - they were used on US 82 in western Alabama for years before the section was eventually 4-laned.
Who said anything about suicide lanes? Do any highways in the US still have them (other than maybe the Colonial Parkway)?
755 said "3lane" I know he meant alternating passing lane not suicide lanes. I dont know of any non wurban suicide lanes in the Midwest.
Missouri just opened alternating passing lanes on a road with 8000 vpd and I have not heard of mass death . i was going to put a link to the article about it.
As nice as freeways would be their cost in this corridor and most others would be staggering (24 million a mile on US 20)This is compared to 3 million a mile to complete alternating passing lanes.
I think it is worth asking the tollway but I dont see the route generating enough traffic and cash to pay for a Tollway or even half the cost.
Quote from: 3467 on July 24, 2011, 12:48:28 AM
755 said "3lane" I know he meant alternating passing lane not suicide lanes. I dont know of any non wurban suicide lanes in the Midwest.
Where are there suicide lanes in the Midwest (lanes in which both directions can pass
and neither direction has right-of-way over the other)?
Quote from: NE2 on July 24, 2011, 12:50:34 AM
Quote from: 3467 on July 24, 2011, 12:48:28 AM
755 said "3lane" I know he meant alternating passing lane not suicide lanes. I dont know of any non wurban suicide lanes in the Midwest.
Where are there suicide lanes in the Midwest (lanes in which both directions can pass and neither direction has right-of-way over the other)?
Beats me. I haven't seen that setup for a very long time. I assumed 755 was talking about climbing lanes (which are sorely needed on that stretch of US-20).
Sometimes center turn lanes have been called suicide lanes. They really are not because they are for turning not passing.
I have never seen actual evidence of a true suicide lane anywhere. I heard a rumor that Texas once had some but I have never seen any real evidence of them.
I think there are about 15 miles of passing lanes out of 47 miles of 2 lane US 20. There should be 40
Quote from: NE2 on July 23, 2011, 08:36:00 PM
Who said anything about suicide lanes? Do any highways in the US still have them (other than maybe the Colonial Parkway)?
for those not familiar with the Colonial Parkway, there are no lane stripes at all - just three parallel slabs of concrete with clear seams between them. neither median nor shoulders are marked with any sort of paint.
when I drove the Colonial, drivers were treating it as a two-lane road. it's either two regular-width lanes or three very narrow ones, as the slabs of concrete are, I believe, 9 feet wide each (maybe 10 - certainly not 12 or 13). Vehicles were driving with one set of wheels just inside the slab boundary, thereby taking up two lanes if the three-lane configuration is to be believed.
I would not attempt a suicide pass there, lest the name come true.
I recall reading somewhere that a section of US-1 in south Virginia was restriped away from a true suicide configuration (pair of dashed yellow lines) to alternate passing lanes sometime in the early 2000s.
that said ... I just saw (and I wish for the life of me I remembered where! New Mexico maybe?) a three-lane road with dotted lines between each adjacent lane pair. dashed yellow in one direction, separating one lane of downhill traffic from two lanes of uphill traffic. dashed white separating the two uphill lanes.
there were no signs explaining expected driver behavior, but if the stripes are to be believed, uphill traffic had the right to encroach into the downhill lane to pass, and downhill traffic could enter the middle (and maybe even the outer uphill???) lane. this in opposition to most three-lane configurations, where uphill traffic had only its assigned two lanes, while downhill could use the middle lane, yielding to uphill.
so this parallel-dashed-lines configuration is likely the closest we'll see these days to the old suicide configuration.
Colonial is three lanes still, just that most drivers are afraid of it. I've indeed used the center passing lane without a problem. US 1 was also indeed converted in the early 2000s - my website even has a submitted photo of the old striping. Regarding your observed hill striping, I've seen it too, and not in NM, so it's not a unique case to have yellow dash centerline and white dash lane line on a 3-lane road. In that case, yes, in fact, you could use all three lanes in the 2-lane direction (uphill), but I believe you can only use the leftmost lane for a total of two downhill.
i can tell you that there are still suicide lanes in the Midwest however they are not as poorly designed as they once were. For example, on WI 23 in Green Lake, there is still a suicide lane but that is for WB use only. It is a double yellow for EB 23 now. This is due to a steep grade and 23 being one of the highest volume state routes in central WI.
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 01, 2011, 05:27:34 PM
For example, on WI 23 in Green Lake, there is still a suicide lane but that is for WB use only.
That's not a suicide lane...
http://www.rrstar.com/insight/x639945287/Chuck-Sweeny-U-S-20-group-weighs-toll-detour-around-Congress
An update. The Tollway would want all of US 20 from 90 to Galena just like they want all of Route 53
Quote from: NE2 on July 23, 2011, 08:36:00 PM
Who said anything about suicide lanes? Do any highways in the US still have them (other than maybe the Colonial Parkway)?
The Pennsylvania Turnpike has suicide lanes.
Please stop posting.
A true suicide lane is a center lane between two directions of transit which is intended as a passing lane for both directions, and for which neither direction has assumed right-of-way. A passing lane added to a two-lane road doesn't count, even if opposing traffic has a broken center line, because one direction still has right-of-way over the other.
They need to build a northwestern bypass aroung Macomb, Illionis.
Quote from: sr641 on May 22, 2012, 04:42:52 PM
Who are you? :poke:
someone who wants you to quit posting.
what right do you have to pollute discussions with your feeble-mindedly inane horseshit?
The US 20 tollway is a good idea. It will connect to the US 20 freeway in Iowa. I think Iowa should make US 20 a tollway.
I think Indiana should make your internet pipe a tollway.
Quote from: NE2 on May 22, 2012, 05:10:38 PM
I think Indiana should make your internet pipe a tollway.
They do. I pay $80 a month for internet.
Quote from: sr641 on May 22, 2012, 05:44:08 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 22, 2012, 05:10:38 PM
I think Indiana should make your internet pipe a tollway.
They do. I pay $80 a month for internet.
To the state of Indiana? Really?
Quote from: sr641 on May 22, 2012, 04:54:27 PM
They need to build a northwestern bypass aroung Macomb, Illionis.
What does this have to do with anything in this thread? I know Terre Haute is boring, but you really need to stop this before the admins stop it for you.
Trust me, we're getting damn close.
There is a thread on IL 110 Chicago -Kansas City that would be the proper location for teh Macomb By Pass if 641 is really interested in it.
The discussion of suicide lanes somehow developed because US 20 has a lot of passing lanes existing or under construction. US 20 is a really expensive roade because the passing land sections are coming in at 3 million a mile twice the cost of Miissouri.
http://abetter54.com/54.html
http://www.rrstar.com/news/x1249727817/In-Sundays-paper-Tolls-might-be-best-way-to-expand-U-S-20
Here is an update. They got it on the Tollways radar.
http://www.journalstandard.com/opinions/x1115118955/Chuck-Sweeny-Mayor-Jim-Gitz-puts-U-S-20-back-on-the-front-burner?zc_p=1
I guess the tollway idea is dead US 20 probably is too but IDOT is buying some ROW around Galena so it exists in the borderland between a live project and fictional highways
Why they want to make US 20 a Tollway is beyond me. I thought the Tollways leading into Chicago are enough as it is.
Quote from: Henry on July 15, 2013, 10:50:14 AM
Why they want to make US 20 a Tollway is beyond me. I thought the Tollways leading into Chicago are enough as it is.
Simple. The only way major road projects seem to get done in IL is if they're tollways. Otherwise there's no money to pay for them.
There is some money for new roads but not for a full interstate that is running over 20 million a mile like US 20. If it cant support a tollway they really need to look at continuous passing lanes . There are several already It would cost a fraction. and maybe just focus on the Galena bypass but that would just be too sensible
Quote from: GeekJedi on July 15, 2013, 04:47:50 PM
Simple. The only way major road projects seem to get done in IL is if they're tollways. Otherwise there's no money to pay for them.
Although a large amount of money for the Circle Interchange reconstruction somehow managed to appear fairly quickly.
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 15, 2013, 08:38:32 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on July 15, 2013, 04:47:50 PM
Simple. The only way major road projects seem to get done in IL is if they're tollways. Otherwise there's no money to pay for them.
Although a large amount of money for the Circle Interchange reconstruction somehow managed to appear fairly quickly.
IDOT always has money for Cook County.
Yep a lot of money ....but nothing for the mid City transitway which would help the west side But it will probably be rebuilt so poorly it will have to be closed to prevent a disaster
Although a large amount of money for the Circle Interchange reconstruction somehow managed to appear fairly quickly.
[/quote]
IDOT always has money for Cook County.
[/quote]
It seems like IDOT had lots of money to waste on the whole Western Illinois 110/336 project. How busy is that road anyway?
A little less than US 20 See the update on that section but I would be more than happy with 3 lanes instead of these more expensive projects
My work has taken me back and forth on US 20 in that area recently and though it was mid-week, I didn't see enough traffic to justify a four lane expansion at this time. A few more passing lanes and some intersection improvements is all I would recommend. Any bypass of Galena or the other communities on the corridor should be of the two lane variety with enough space for another carriageway in a couple decades.
Speaking of Galena, this gave me a chuckle west of town:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.46236,-90.51501&z=16&t=S (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.46236,-90.51501&z=16&t=S)
Now that's what I call a cheap 4 lane expansion!
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 16, 2013, 07:15:39 PM
Speaking of Galena, this gave me a chuckle west of town:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.46236,-90.51501&z=16&t=S (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.46236,-90.51501&z=16&t=S)
Now that's what I call a cheap 4 lane expansion!
Missouri used to have one of those: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=38.86901,-94.17327&z=18&t=O
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 16, 2013, 07:15:39 PM
My work has taken me back and forth on US 20 in that area recently and though it was mid-week, I didn't see enough traffic to justify a four lane expansion at this time. A few more passing lanes and some intersection improvements is all I would recommend. Any bypass of Galena or the other communities on the corridor should be of the two lane variety with enough space for another carriageway in a couple decades.
super 2?
http://apps.dot.illinois.gov/ActiveCalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=174&information_id=482&type=&syndicate=syndicate
This is a meeting for a 3 laning maybe someone in the area could go ask why this couldn't solve the problem.
Joe I think that is on the 4 lane west of Galena
Quote from: Henry on July 15, 2013, 10:50:14 AM
Why they want to make US 20 a Tollway is beyond me. I thought the Tollways leading into Chicago are enough as it is.
My guess is to keep milking money of out of Chicago suburban motorists that had to get off of I-90 (already a tollway) in order to head further northwest in the state to say, Elizabeth or Galena.
Yeah let's milk out another area for tolls to pay a broke state :angry:
Been riding and driving US20 since I was 8 years old going to Galena, and honestly, the bypass is gonna kill Stockton and Elizabeth and wipe Woodbine and Eleroy off the map.
Quote from: 3467 on July 14, 2011, 05:41:50 PM
http://www.rrstar.com/carousel/x1186097781/Chuck-Sweeny-U-S-20-freeway-is-no-longer-worth-pursuing
Probably the more realitic suggestion. I would add that US 20 with a continuous passing lane would solve all the problems. The billion is low allready The Galena Bypass alone is up to 250 million. I do not see where the toll money comes from. There have been 2 previous downtate toll studies (I-24 extension and Chicago -Kansas City) Neither were feasable. I suspect if IDOT offered a 3 lane to everybody or a future dream I think most would take the 3 lane now
3-lanes ("2+1") work great for those driving a car, but one of the primary reasons for expanding the road mentioned in the OP's article would be to give trucks to the area a better corridor to use, and alternating passing lanes are almost useless for trucks.
I had opportunity to travel US-20 between Rockford and Dubuque on Sunday.
The section between Freeport and Galena has clearly not evolved from its early 20th century origins; the tight curves and steep grades wouldn't be so bad for a sports car, but it's a seriously challenging route for heavy trucks. Wisconsin Highway 11 is by comparison a far superior route, with much more forgiving grades, wide shoulders, and gradual curves.
A reroute and new build of US-20 on 4-lane right-of-way, even if it's only built with 2 lanes initially, would dramatically improve travel on this stretch.
Expanding the true "4-lane" highway to Iowa = good.
Tollway to pay for it = bad.
There is already more than enough tolls in the state.
I thought us highways aren't allowed to be toll roads
GT-N5110
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 28, 2014, 11:35:16 AM
I thought us highways aren't allowed to be toll roads
GT-N5110
US-51 (IL) and US-412 (OK) beg to differ.
Toll road to pay for the bonds = good. Once bonds are paid, then make a freeway.
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 01, 2014, 02:59:03 PM
Toll road to pay for the bonds = good. Once bonds are paid, then make a freeway.
I'll politely disagree. How do you pay for continuing maintenance? You either keep the tolls or or rise the fuel tax. And the fuel tax is a decreasing pot when more fuel efficient vehicles are used as well as alternate fuel vehicles. I'll keep the toll that
all vehicles must pay, thankyouverymuch. Just compare IDOT (crumbling) with ISTHA (in decent shape).
Fair point but I was looking at simply as another way to pay for the actual construction not the maintenance especially since it is a US Highway.
What type of highway does not matter anymore - even for Interstates - which have become political tools (see I-99)