I believe the first highway I drove was either US 49 or US 80. It's been so long ago, so I can't quite remember. I first drove on an interstate in high school. It was I-20.
Probably the 101.
Now that I'm driving, I can contribute to this :D
First highway I ever drove on was PA 352, first freeway was I-476.
Ohio 41 when I was 11 in my Grandpa's pickup (8?/1999).
Legally- probably US-20/26 through Boise (5/2003).
First freeway was I-184 through Boise (5/2003).
First highway I drove by myself would be Idaho 55 (11/2003).
First highway I took pictures of while driving is Washington 163 (1/2007).
Er, I assume we mean behind the wheel? Either CT 104 or CT 137. I don't remember the moment, didn't consider it noteworthy, but logically it would have to be one of those two.
First freeway would be the Merritt Parkway (CT 15), gotten on northbound from CT 104 northbound (exit 34) - that moment I remember, I almost hit the guardrail failing to merge properly!
First interstate... probably I-95 but possibly I-91, oddly - I remember a trip my father and I took to the New England Air Museum while I was still on my learner's permit which was the first trip of significance that I drove on, and I can't say with 100% certainty that I'd been behind the wheel on I-95 (which is considerably closer to where I live) before that.
Considering I took driver's training in Coldwater, it would have to be US-12, if my first road lesson didn't take me to I-69 via the Jonesville Road interchange, which I don't think happened.
Had to be KY 52, since that's the road I lived on when I was 16.
First freeway would have been the Mountain Parkway, first US route US 25/421, first interstate I-64.
probably I-95/MA-128 or US-1 within minutes of each other, with a potential I-93 in there as well.
First Interstate was I-25 in Colorado Springs.
First U.S. Highway (other than 85/87 since they overlap I-25) was probably U.S. 24.
First CO State Highway was probably 83, back when Academy Boulevard still had that designation.
Either Oh 38 in Madison County or Oh 4 in Union County. I must of been 9 at the time.
First Nevada route: Best guess would be SR 574 (Cheyenne Ave), as it's the closest route near my house in Las Vegas.
First US Highway (and freeway): US 95 in northwestern Las Vegas.
First main highway: US 9 in Columbia County, New York
First limited access highway: Taconic State Parkway following south to the Saw Mill River Parkway, the Henry Hudson Parkway and the remaining sections of the West Side Highway.
Quite a contrast and an experience I will never forget.
First numbered highway would have been OH 16.
First US highway would be US 40.
First Interstate and also first freeway would have been I-270.
Illinois 53 and I-55.
The St. Joseph Valley Parkway (as it is now called - back in 1984 when I first drove it, it was just "the bypass") around South Bend, IN.
I assume 600-series New Jersey county roads don't count, particularly as the county I grew up in wasn't bothering to mark those in those days. So, most likely US 22, which I lived a block from. But possibly NJ 28. First freeway or expressway, no idea.
The Beltway within a week of getting my learner's permit when I was 15, once my dad had decided that I could downshift well enough to be allowed on the Interstate.
But if by "highway" you mean any numbered road other than the trivial (recognizing that in Virginia almost every road bears a number), then VA-236, which is the most direct route from my old high school (where my dad started teaching me to drive in the big car park) to my parents' house.
On learner's permit: That would be QC-236 (all of it) and then QC-132 between Saint-Anicet and Saint-Stanislas-de-Kostka.
Freeway on learner's permit: A-15.
On full license (with teen restrictions, which I have until age 25), alone: Apart from the bits of QC-132 and 236 in my commute to college, that would have be QC-132 to A-30 (Châteauguay section) to QC-132 (through St-Constant and Delson) to A-30 to A-10 to A-55 to QC-108.
First driven as a roadgeek with a camera: QC-138 through Ste-Martine and Mercier, and the new section of A-30 in St-Constant.
US 45 and I 80; back when that intersection was a cloverleaf.
Probably Georgia State Route 279/Old National Highway.
Be well,
Bryant
US 101. At the age of 14 with no license or even learner's permit, my friend of the same age as me and I drove this old man who had a new 1970 International 3/4 ton pickup with a 4-speed from Gold Beach OR to Crescent City CA on a Sunday drive to get the old man a bottle of booze, which was not available in Oregon since it was Sunday and the OLCC liquor stores were closed. That was also my first time out of the state of Oregon! I had never even driven a manual transmission vehicle before but I took to driving like a duck to water.
What wasn't expected and scared me: The original Chetco River bridge was a very narrow late 1920's style affair. Coming from the other direction was a log truck. I figured since vehicles had been going across the bridge in both directions for decades, that I would be able to do it. I did but I drove at 10 MPH...LOL! The other scary thing to encounter was the construction of the freeway 101 section north of Crescent City. That was a Real Big Deal, massive (to a 14 year old making his first drive) in scope with tons of equipment and dust, trying to figure out my way through the construction zone. I did so without mishap.
I made the drive down and my friend asked if he could drive as we headed back. I let him do so. He lasted all of six miles and was happy to hand the wheel back to me. That was my introduction to driving and I never looked back!
Rick
For me, it would probably be Ohio SR-4 in Erie County (the hospital I was born at was located there LOL).
For my first personal driving experience, it would be Ohio SR-113 in Erie County.
I took drivers ed back in '69 (yes they had cars back then :biggrin:) in Fayetteville, NC so my first highway was likely US 301. That was b4 I 95 was finished in the area and all traffic followed US 301 thru town. 95 was likely my first driven interstate tho I dont have a definite recollection of it.
What was your first roadtrip over 300 miles you drove, from where to where?
Mine was Fayetteville, NC to Detroit, MI in 1969, dad allowed me to pick the route and drive the entire length. I cant recall the exact route but I remember Winston-Salem, US 421 thru sw VA and adjacent KY to Richmond, KY then I 75, M 39, and Plymouth Rd to 9529 Piedmont phone BR30269. good times, good times!
First numbered highway and first freeway driven would have to be US-31 for me.
When I was 15 I drove my father's truck which was pulling a U-Haul from Manistee to Holland to take my sister to college. Needless to say, that was very interesting.
PA 28 about 20 miles NE of Pittsburgh
I think it was GA 20 between Hampton and McDonough, though it's possible that it could've been US 19/41 instead. First freeway was definitely I-75 in the same area.
First numbered highway would be VA 169, as I lived at the time on a no outlet side street off of it.
First interstate, I-64. Both were after I got my permit at 15.5.
The first road I drove on was right outside my house when my driving instructor came for my first lesson 17 years ago. I would assume everyone's first drive would be as a learner?
My first state or US highway was an extremely rare alternate multiplex (US 31A/41A), and my first interstate was I-24.
Quote from: Truvelo on August 21, 2011, 07:32:16 PM
The first road I drove on was right outside my house when my driving instructor came for my first lesson 17 years ago. I would assume everyone's first drive would be as a learner?
In the USA that is not necessarily a valid assumption. In some states you need not take a driver ed class if you are 18 or older.
I drove a little bit (a very little bit) on backroads for a few years before I so much as took driver's ed- I knew how to drive a stick reasonably well before I took driver's ed. In rural areas things like driver's licenses aren't such a big deal as long as you're driving where there is little other traffic near where you live and you have your grandpa with you in the front seat.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 21, 2011, 09:22:03 PMIn the USA that is not necessarily a valid assumption. In some states you need not take a driver ed class if you are 18 or older.
Do any states actually require driver education as a condition for granting a driver's license? Kansas didn't when I was learning how to drive, and still doesn't, although there is now a logbook requirement. Written documentation of 50 hours of supervised driving has to be shown before an instructional permit can be upgraded to a license.
In Britain driving lessons are not compulsory except for motorcycles (you have to produce a certificate indicating that you have completed compulsory basic training before you can be granted a provisional license for motorcycles). However, even experienced drivers are advised to take at least a few lessons before taking the actual driving test, just to get advice on what the examiners will look for.
There are various kinds of faults which are not illegal or dangerous
per se but which can cumulatively lead to test fails. Probably the most commonly quoted example is "not making progress," such as driving at 40 in a rural derestricted zone where the speed limit is usually at least 60 depending on road type. But there are many other kinds of faults--I discovered one of these when I asked my examiner questions which he thought reflected a lack of knowledge of common signing practices.
Driving examiners in most US states do not have a political mandate to limit the supply of new drivers, so there is much less of a culture of looking for reasons to fail new drivers. However, California's driving test is actually quite similar to the British one in that the examiners in that state will fail you for what they call "overcautious" behavior, one example of which is taking too long to check that the way is clear before pulling away from a stop sign.
I can only speak for MS, but when I was first learning how to drive, driver's ed was not required. It may not even be required now. However, underage drivers who took driver's ed had lower insurance costs than those who didn't (on the parents' policy, of course). I'd like to see it mandatory, especially since it can lead to lower insurance costs.
Driver's ed is required in QC since two years ago (or something like that). The course costs around $900, and you have your learner's permit for 12 months.
Thankfully, I got my license before that, but I still had to wait 12 months since I didn't take driver's ed (those who did had their permit for 8 months; and back then it was half the price, too). They say it's to prevent reckless young drivers. Won't work, IMO.
I failed the road test many times, so I ended up having my learner's permit for about 20 months.
So am I right in saying that in some states of the US you are free to jump into a car and drive off without any supervision?
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 22, 2011, 12:29:44 AMWritten documentation of 50 hours of supervised driving has to be shown before an instructional permit can be upgraded to a license.
wow. I think I may have had about 5 hours of driving experience before being issued my license. But, in that time, I learned how to drive stick, I learned how to get out of a significant majority of nasty situations, and Hell, I even learned how to change a flat!
QuoteHowever, California's driving test is actually quite similar to the British one in that the examiners in that state will fail you for what they call "overcautious" behavior, one example of which is taking too long to check that the way is clear before pulling away from a stop sign.
well, good. idiot drivers are idiots, and need to be assessed appropriately.
I took my test in Massachusetts. they seem to have an unhealthy obsession with driving backwards - I recall they made me do so for about 1/8 mile, which was the longest block without cross streets that they could find. Didn't make me parallel park.
Due to the presence of an ambulance-and-fire-truck combination they did actually make me test on something actually important (
get the fuck out of the way of the emergency vehicle) but that was of course more coincidence than anything else. No evasive driving, no maneuvering on ice, dropping into low gear to climb or descend a hill, recovering from a spin, recognizing black ice when you hit it (or before), ditching into the right shoulder when someone has misjudged a suicide pass, or any other really useful activities...
and the written test was even more horseshit: explain, again, to me how my knowledge of the exact amount of time in jail that a drunk-driving conviction results in actually
makes me a better driver??? I know not to drive drunk, as, after all, I am
not an idiot - the difference between a $7600 and a $7800 fine - or the difference between 3 1/2 years and 3 3/4 years in jail - is not going to be the threshold.
so, in general, testing just makes you a feeble-minded idiot, the kind that clog up the roads to a 95% frequency across the country. Maybe 5% of people can avoid the most common pitfalls and stay out of trouble. The remainder are the sort of morons who thought to themselves, "I know what the speed limit is at an exempt railroad crossing, uphill both ways, in visibility of precisely 343 to 347 feet" and somehow deemed themselves competent drivers.
Great. Good for you. Doesn't mean you know what to do when you are driving through black ice, crest the hill at 25mph (
if you're smart enough not to be driving 60 in these conditions... I might not put such idiocy past you) and see a car stalled in your lane maybe 100 feet away ... which way are you going to steer hard to avoid this obstacle without spinning out and hitting the far shoulder, huh? Your books never taught you that, and that is why your picture is showing up on the evening news, followed by a short clip of a highway patrolman with a grim face and a bloody spatula.
You're doing 55 on the freeway: the car two ahead of you brakes hard; the car directly in front of you slams into the back of him. Debris flies. Clearly the median is your only escape. The inner lane is solid concrete; the median is muddy grass. What direction do you swivel your steering wheel in? When do you engage the emergency brake?
Do you even know if you are driving a front or rear-wheel drive vehicle? When do you slam back on the gas to regain traction in your driving wheels? Bonus points for controlling deceleration sufficiently to not rip the axles off your car.
Double bonus points for not even stalling when you're driving a stick shift vehicle.actual real-life scenarios, but no, the driver's-ed community is far happier teaching morons how to parallel-park. as we all know, 99% of all viscerally brutal
the bubble-headed bleach-blond comes on at five road casualties occur at under 3mph, right?
It probably would have been more instructive if, just once, the tester rigged up some kind of inflatable obstacle to suddenly appear in my path while I was doing 60mph on the test course, so that I would have known how to react to real-life situations ... but no, that would be far too useful.
Better to learn what the exact fine is, down to the nearest dollar, for parking for over two hours in a downtown, during a cleaning interval, on the left side of the street.
Better to learn that secondhand smoke is apparently illegal if you are driving in a vehicle with someone under 18 (the only question I missed on my driver's ed written exam), because knowing when not to lungfuck yourself apparently makes you less of a menace on the roads. Shit, what's next, a thorough examination of my knowledge of the US tax code?
Precisely how irrelevant are we aiming to be?drivers need to be judged on their
ability to drive. It seems so obvious when presented like that, but it is a distant and ephemeral fact from the perspective of the DMV, which would be happy to give you a license because you managed to drive around some static cones at 10mph, and never you mind what happens when you hit the freeway and there is a deer
right there.
don't teach 'em. just scrape 'em off the road!
I've gone 613,000 miles without an at-fault accident, through all kinds of destructively inclement conditions (US-550 Million Dollar Highway at 3mph in a whiteout blizzard at 2am, etc) and
none of that was because of Driver's Ed or any other similar idiocy. They will be the last to teach you what you actually need to know.
have fun not knowing how to drive. have fun being the latest tragedy. have fun being the latest idiot.
Quote from: allniter89 on August 21, 2011, 03:17:15 PM
What was your first roadtrip over 300 miles you drove, from where to where?
driving by myself? 2003. 8800 miles, from Boston to Boston by way of LA and Portland!
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 22, 2011, 12:29:44 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 21, 2011, 09:22:03 PM
In the USA that is not necessarily a valid assumption. In some states you need not take a driver ed class if you are 18 or older.
Do any states actually require driver education as a condition for granting a driver's license? Kansas didn't when I was learning how to drive, and still doesn't, although there is now a logbook requirement. Written documentation of 50 hours of supervised driving has to be shown before an instructional permit can be upgraded to a license.
As I was learning to drive 12 years ago in Nevada, anyone under age 18 was required to have taken a drivers' ed course before testing for a license. Also, the 50 hours of supervised driving requirement (with at least 10 hours at night) had just been instituted before I got my permit--although an actual log was not required, just the parent/guardian signing off that the 50 hours had been completed. Neither of these requirements apply to persons over 18, although a drivers' ed course is encouraged.
Unofficially, I logged several steering-from-the-shotgun-seat miles along US 40 when I was a kid, usually on the way home from church.
My first driving practice with a permit was usually on county roads in the middle of Madison County. When I saw another car, I stopped and waited for it to go by. After turning onto a road with no identifying signage, I nearly panicked at the realization it was OH 38.
In one of my sessions with an instructor, I was told we had to cover at least some freeway miles, so I drove I-70 from exit 85 to exit 91, staying in the right lane (with the trucks) the whole time.
Eventually I got more comfortable with freeways. As a senior in high school, I dealt with rush hour traffic daily to attend a calculus class at OSU. This was before I-670 was finished on the west side, so the traffic was extra mean.
Quote from: roadfro on August 22, 2011, 05:31:43 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 22, 2011, 12:29:44 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 21, 2011, 09:22:03 PM
In the USA that is not necessarily a valid assumption. In some states you need not take a driver ed class if you are 18 or older.
Do any states actually require driver education as a condition for granting a driver's license? Kansas didn't when I was learning how to drive, and still doesn't, although there is now a logbook requirement. Written documentation of 50 hours of supervised driving has to be shown before an instructional permit can be upgraded to a license.
As I was learning to drive 12 years ago in Nevada, anyone under age 18 was required to have taken a drivers' ed course before testing for a license. Also, the 50 hours of supervised driving requirement (with at least 10 hours at night) had just been instituted before I got my permit--although an actual log was not required, just the parent/guardian signing off that the 50 hours had been completed. Neither of these requirements apply to persons over 18, although a drivers' ed course is encouraged.
This is how it worked in Virginia back in the late 1980s when I got my license. People over 18 who took a driver ed course got some sort of certification that they could submit to get a discount on their insurance rates, I believe. I think anyone wanting the Class M motorcycle endorsement had to take a course.
The road test was an absolute joke. Parallel parking has never been required on the Virginia test (indeed back in the 1960s when my parents got married, my (later-to-be-)mom waited until after they got married and moved to Virginia (where my father was a student) to get her driver's license because New York required you to park and Virginia didn't). I knew in advance from other people at my high school where my road test would take me and I went and scouted out the route in advance for any surprises. Only real "gotcha" was that they had you go through a trailer park that had a 15-mph speed limit, I guess because it's so easy to speed there. I used my mom's Volvo 740 sedan for the test, popped the automatic shift down to first gear so the car would force me to go slowly, and passed easily. (Our British friends may not know that in the USA, there is no restriction about having to pass the test on a manual in order to drive a manual. Given that, I figured it made sense to take it on the automatic because it was one less thing for which they could fail me. I've never owned a car with an automatic.)
The written tests I've taken (once to get my learner's permit; once in 2003 when I renewed my license....I had two moving violations in the preceding five years so I had to retake the knowledge test) didn't include anything about fines or jail time or the like the way agentsteel53 describes. In 2003 they did have a bunch of things like default speed limits in business districts and stuff like that–stuff I had forgotten and wouldn't have known had I not re-reviewed the DMV manual prior to the test just to see if they'd changed anything.
I seem to recall that on a visit to Moosonee, Ontario, in 1986 the bus driver up there said that because the roads do not connect to the rest of the North American road system, the only requirement for driving in that area is that you have a vehicle and keys. No license needed, no license plates, no registration, etc. I guess being in the middle of nowhere has its benefits.
In Virginia where I got my license (which I am planning on getting changed to MA this afternoon) all high school students are required to take a full 18 week driver's ed course their sophomore year. Doesn't matter how old they are or whether or not they even intend to get their license. Then after you get a certificate stating you passed it with an A (>93%) you either took a private behind-the-wheel driving course or one through the school, and they graded you on the last day. At this time you are also required to submit a log book signed by several people verifying you drove for 45 hours in the day and 15 at night, before they give you your permit, which is simply a slip of paper. Next you have to go down to the DMV and spend a whole day waiting in line to get your actual permit, and then no less than 9 months later you can start driving unsupervised with a restricted license (though you don't get the actual hard copy one until they can schedule you a court date, as you have to go before a judge who preaches to you about how "he doesn't want to see you in his courtroom!", so it's usually a few months later). Then if you get a single ticket while under the age of 18 they confiscate your license and you have to do the whole affair over again.
So in short, no, Virginia does not allow you to just jump in a car and drive off without any supervision.
EDIT: 1995hoo, the Virginia school-run behind the wheel courses have required you to parallel park for several years now.
Quote from: Truvelo on August 22, 2011, 03:26:46 AM
So am I right in saying that in some states of the US you are free to jump into a car and drive off without any supervision?
I hope not. In New Jersey 30 years ago, a learner's permit was only valid in daylight and with a licensed driver in the car. But you could - in fact I did - have your parents teach you to drive.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on August 22, 2011, 09:22:10 AM
In Virginia where I got my license (which I am planning on getting changed to MA this afternoon) all high school students are required to take a full 18 week driver's ed course their sophomore year. Doesn't matter how old they are or whether or not they even intend to get their license. Then after you get a certificate stating you passed it with an A (>93%) you either took a private behind-the-wheel driving course or one through the school, and they graded you on the last day. At this time you are also required to submit a log book signed by several people verifying you drove for 45 hours in the day and 15 at night, before they give you your permit, which is simply a slip of paper. Next you have to go down to the DMV and spend a whole day waiting in line to get your actual permit, and then no less than 9 months later you can start driving unsupervised with a restricted license (though you don't get the actual hard copy one until they can schedule you a court date, as you have to go before a judge who preaches to you about how "he doesn't want to see you in his courtroom!", so it's usually a few months later). Then if you get a single ticket while under the age of 18 they confiscate your license and you have to do the whole affair over again.
So in short, no, Virginia does not allow you to just jump in a car and drive off without any supervision.
EDIT: 1995hoo, the Virginia school-run behind the wheel courses have required you to parallel park for several years now.
Regarding your last sentence, that may be, but as far as I know the ROAD TEST conducted by the DMV still does not require parallel parking from what I hear. It definitely didn't back in 1989. I don't know anyone who took the school-run behind-the-wheel course, but I did notice that even back then those courses did teach parallel parking (because I would see people practicing it with cones in the car park at WT Woodson in Fairfax). I took private behind-the-wheel and was not taught to parallel park; I taught myself very quickly once I went off to college.
The stuff about the restricted license is new since the 1980s. The way it worked back then for people under 18 was that you took the knowledge and vision tests and got your learner's permit (no earlier than 15 and 8 months), took behind-the-wheel and spent a certain amount of time driving with a parent or other adult over 18, then on your 16th birthday you could take the road test. You were issued a "90-day temporary" license that looked like a regular one, but you had to go to court with a parent to get your final license. Because of the number of people it wasn't a real courtroom, it was the auditorium at Fairfax High School, and basically it was one more chance for them to rail at you about the evils of drunk driving.
I did get a ticket when I was 16 (I was in an accident), but I didn't lose my license and have to re-do it all. I guess they've changed that too.
I don't know anyone who took a private behind-the-wheel course (95% of people took it through the school), and I can't comment on the DMV's road test because if you get your license as a minor you never even have to take it so it's kinda a moot point.
My experience going to court to get my license was definitely in an actual courtroom though - the city's Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court to be precise.
I got a speeding ticket for 10 over the limit about a month before my 17th birthday and got a certified letter from the DMV (which in itself is stupid, considering minors are probably going to be at school during the middle of the day and NOT at home to sign for a certified letter) informing me that my license would be suspended at I think it was the end of the month and I could get it back by retaking a classroom driver's ed course. It was a bit of an exaggeration to say you have to do the whole affair over again, but it's quite a lengthy and annoying process.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on August 22, 2011, 10:24:11 AM
I don't know anyone who took a private behind-the-wheel course (95% of people took it through the school), and I can't comment on the DMV's road test because if you get your license as a minor you never even have to take it so it's kinda a moot point.
My experience going to court to get my license was definitely in an actual courtroom though - the city's Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court to be precise.
I got a speeding ticket for 10 over the limit about a month before my 17th birthday and got a certified letter from the DMV (which in itself is stupid, considering minors are probably going to be at school during the middle of the day and NOT at home to sign for a certified letter) informing me that my license would be suspended at I think it was the end of the month and I could get it back by retaking a classroom driver's ed course. It was a bit of an exaggeration to say you have to do the whole affair over again, but it's quite a lengthy and annoying process.
The part about the courtroom surely varies by jurisdiction. I grew up here in Fairfax County and there's no way any of the facilities at the courthouse would have had room for all the teens and their parents. I wouldn't be surprised if other parts of the state do it differently.
Out of curiosity after looking at this thread I went to the DMV's website. I see they've changed the process quite a bit as to the road test: When I was getting my license, you definitely had to take the road test regardless of whether you took a behind-the-wheel class, but the DMV's site says that now the driving school administers the test. That's a major change. I took behind-the-wheel in late April of 1989 and I got my license in May on my 16th birthday, first day I was eligible to get it. (Part of my "additional driving" with my parents was on a trip to New York over spring break where they had me drive all the way up until the last service area prior to the Goethals Bridge, where we switched so my father would drive across Staten Island and in Brooklyn.)
I remember one kid was exempt from the classroom driver's ed course our sophomore year of high school because he had already turned 16 and already had his license. He was a really short kid and I think his parents had had him start school a year later because he was so small (I knew several kids whose parents did that). I recall for the rest of us there seemed to be no rhyme nor reason to how they assigned us to that class. It was a nine-week class that replaced your phys ed class for one quarter of your sophomore year. I was assigned to it during the second quarter (November to January) even though I couldn't get my license until May. I wonder if the idea was that you were assigned to it prior to when you could get your learner's permit (which for me was the end of January, about a week after the second quarter of the school year ended). Fairfax County's school system has always been obsessed with their four "grading periods" (better-known to everyone else as quarters).
Quote from: Truvelo on August 22, 2011, 03:26:46 AMSo am I right in saying that in some states of the US you are free to jump into a car and drive off without any supervision?
I am not sure there are any states like that left. When I was learning how to drive in Kansas, the logbook requirement was about seven or eight years in the future and getting a license meant (1) passing a written test (administered at the driver's license bureau, and contrary to Jake's experience in Massachusetts, not really focused on minutiae) and (2) either passing a very simple driving test
or producing a certificate of successful completion of driver's education. The driver's license that was granted was restricted (school and job commuting only) until age 16, at which time it became an unrestricted adult license. Strictly speaking I think the logbook requirement applies only to learner drivers who are minors (and possibly only learner drivers under the age of 16). The logbook is also not required to be notarized and has no mechanism for independent verification. At the time it was introduced, it was suggested that many parents would simply sign off their children without supervising them for the required number of hours. The standard official response to that claim was that few, if any, parents would see it as being in their best interest to short-circuit their children's acquisition of good driving skills.
Before the logbook was introduced, it was very common for new drivers to take both the written test and the driving test so that they could get a restricted license (which takes parents off the hook for school commuting) instead of an instructional permit, and
then to take driver's education. This was not the route I took--I got the instructional permit at age 17, had well over 50 hours of supervised driving (not just with my parents but also with a family friend who had taught her own two children how to drive), took driver's education in high school, and got my full license by certificate. To date the only driving test I have ever taken is in Britain.
Licensing is much less
laissez-faire these days. Most school districts in Kansas cut driver's education in the mid-2000's because it was an expensive elective with considerable private-sector competition and there has been a state-level funding crisis in public education for close to a decade now. Because it is a farming state, it has traditionally been much easier to get a driver's license in Kansas than elsewhere, although the Kansas driving license is sufficiently well respected to be exchangeable with German driving licenses. A great many other US states, especially ones on or near the coasts or with high populations, have graduated licensing schemes of wedding-cake complexity. These programs have attracted considerable interest in continental Europe, where France already has a form of graduated licensing and Britain is considering importing some features of it.
My personal view is that it is so much easier to design stupid driver's education courses and driving tests than smart ones that little stock can be put in paper documentation of either. I don't know about private-sector driving education, but the high-school driver education course I took was essentially a waste of time. The curriculum had been pared down to the lowest common denominator and there were too many students for any appreciable amount of on-road instruction (I was taken on the road only three times in one semester, and allowed to drive only two of those times). We spent a considerable amount of time in a mobile driving simulator which was not equipped to provide mechanical feedback and whose on-screen film footage looked to have been shot in the late 1950's or early 1960's, around the time the high school was built. The simulator did have some film sequences demonstrating appropriate evasion maneuvers, but aside from this we had no systematic exposure to hazard perception or rally-driving technique. As long ago as 1965, Ralph Nader observed (in
Unsafe at any Speed) that the evidence for reduced crashes and fatalities from driver's education was so thin that driver's education did not deserve the insurance discounts which were then already standard (and which indeed were part of the motivation for my parents to require me to take it).
From my point of view, the curriculum has too little to say on the roadway environment. If I were running my own driver's education course, required textbooks would include the
MUTCD and the AASHTO Green Book, and students would be required to familiarize themselves with a sampling of state traffic manuals and design guides. They would also be required to be intimately familiar with the legal doctrine of sovereign immunity so that they would not go forth in expectation that the highways would be safe for them to use everywhere and all the time.
Where rigid driving tests are concerned, not just in Britain but also in California and many Canadian provinces, I think they prompt learner drivers to pick up habits to pass the test that must subsequently be broken if they are to become good defensive drivers. The rule of "making progress," for example, can easily prompt people to drive too fast in bad weather conditions just to avoid lollygagging. Learner drivers in Britain are also taught the rule of "mirror-signal-maneuver" rather than set distances (in UVC jurisdictions: 100' in city traffic, 300' on the open road) during which the turn signal has to be blinking before the actual maneuver is made. This often results in drivers signalling at the very last minute so that the signal only indicates a maneuver already in progress rather than giving advance notice of it. Drivers are also taught
not to signal when there is no-one around to see the signal, which keeps them from getting into the habit of signalling and results in signals not being given when there is someone around who could benefit from the signal but is not visible to the driver.
Idaho's among the most liberal in terms of driving laws and even there 8 years ago there was still a process.
If you were 18 you could get a learner's permit and drive without driver's ed and supervised instruction.
You could get the permit at 14 1/2 and take a driver's ed course that required 30 hours classroom/6 hours driving/6 hours observing drivers, at which point you got a have-to-have-an-adult-in-the-front-seat permit that lasted 4 months after you finished driver's ed or your 15th birthday, whichever came later. At that point you got a restricted no-daylight license that became a full, unrestricted license at 16.
To get the license you had to take the inane written test plus a driving test. I took mine in the Idaho mountains in the winter, and the roads were bad. I got nicked for driving too close to the middle of the road on an ice-covered backroad- the driver's ed instructor said that if a plow went by I would have been hit by the plow. I replied that if a plow went by I would have moved to the edge of the road, but didn't want to on a snow packed road because the edges are slipperier. I passed.
My sister took hers in the summer and nearly failed for not going exactly the speed limit (she was going like 23 in a 25 for an extended period or something).
I'm pretty sure that's about the easiest process in the US at the moment. I understand North Dakota is really easy too- maybe somebody knows about that process.
Quote from: corco on August 22, 2011, 11:32:23 AM
6 hours observing drivers
"all right, mister student, what did that one do wrong?"
"well, let's see, do you mean the missing right rear wheel?"
"nope"
"do you mean the fully automatic weapons in plain view?"
"nope"
"do you mean the human carcass he's been dragging for the last 400 feet?"
"nope"
"then I have no idea... what?"
"his left front auxiliary turn signal is cycling 10% faster than state regulations allow."
The first numbered highway that I had ever driven would be either PA 347 through Dunmore, Throop and Olyphant, or US 6 (now US 6 Business) through Dickson City. This was almost 23 years ago, and my memory isn't all that great. :-/ The first freeway, and Interstate, that I have driven was definitely I-81 in the Scranton area.
I don't think anyone has described Ohio licensing yet. All I'll say is this: non-Ohioans, be glad you don't have to deal with our "maneuverability test" that bears no resemblance to any real-world situaton.
Quote from: corco on August 22, 2011, 11:32:23 AM
Idaho's among the most liberal in terms of driving laws and even there 8 years ago there was still a process.
If you were 18 you could get a learner's permit and drive without driver's ed and supervised instruction.
You could get the permit at 14 1/2 and take a driver's ed course that required 30 hours classroom/6 hours driving/6 hours observing drivers, at which point you got a have-to-have-an-adult-in-the-front-seat permit that lasted 4 months after you finished driver's ed or your 15th birthday, whichever came later. At that point you got a restricted no-daylight license that became a full, unrestricted license at 16.
To get the license you had to take the inane written test plus a driving test. I took mine in the Idaho mountains in the winter, and the roads were bad. I got nicked for driving too close to the middle of the road on an ice-covered backroad- the driver's ed instructor said that if a plow went by I would have been hit by the plow. I replied that if a plow went by I would have moved to the edge of the road, but didn't want to on a snow packed road because the edges are slipperier. I passed.
My sister took hers in the summer and nearly failed for not going exactly the speed limit (she was going like 23 in a 25 for an extended period or something).
I'm pretty sure that's about the easiest process in the US at the moment. I understand North Dakota is really easy too- maybe somebody knows about that process.
I would say that NY's also really easy (upstate at least; NYC and Long Island are more restrictive) compared to the restrictive stuff I've seen in this thread. At 16 you can get a learner's permit after taking the written and visual test at the DMV; the permit allows you to drive anywhere upstate (except for road test sites) in the day with a licensed driver over 21 (at night you need to be with your parents). To get your road test, you need to complete 20 or 30 hours of driving with 10 of those in moderate-heavy traffic or pass driver's ed from a school (private driver's ed courses don't count for anything in NY, even the insurance discount). If you pass the road test while still 16, you get a limited junior licence which is essentially a learner's permit that allows you to drive on your own to/from school, work, and doctor's appointments. At 17 (without driver's ed) you get a junior licence that doesn't allow driving at night without a licenced driver over 21 and a teen passenger restriction so meaningless that you can safely ignore it if you don't drive a station wagon. Note: I believe downstate has more restrictions. At 18 (or 17 with driver's ed) you get a full licence.
When getting the permit the DMV gives you a paper receipt that suffices as a temporary permit until they mail the real one; for a licence, your road test results combined with permit do the same. No court appearance like Virginia (someone needs to tell them about this wonderful new invention called the postal system :-P).
As for first highways... my first was either NY 386 or NY 383 near Scottsville (let's just say NY 383 since I know I drove on it that day). First interstate (and freeway) was I-490 near Victor.
EDIT: Also there's a five hour "safe driving course" required for those who don't take driver's ed. Forgot about it when writing this post.
I-84.
Unlike probably most people here, I waited until I was almost 18 before getting my license. Not sure why.. friends usually picked me up and I would've had no car anyway at the time.
I was taking driving lessons from the Sears Driving School at the Danbury Fair Mall in Danbury, CT. For some reason, in one of my first lessons, the teacher had me go on to the interstate (I-84). I was terrified, and apparently, terrifying. I remember her holding on to the handle above the door and telling me to get off ASAP :-D
Then a later lesson with a different teacher, had me drive all the way back home, from about exit 5 to 15 - which is over 20 miles. That was my first time on the interstate for any significant distance. Right lane all the way :D
It's funny how vividly I still remember that.. it was in 1997 or so.
First state highway was CA-107, Hawthorne Boulevard, in Torrance, CA.
First freeway was... the 405. Trial by fire!
Quote from: allniter89 on August 21, 2011, 03:17:15 PM
What was your first roadtrip over 300 miles you drove, from where to where?
Hmm... well, DC is less than 300 miles away, so it wasn't that (and to think, my father and I shared the driving on that trip!)...
Actually, I think the first time I personally drove more than 300 miles in a day was probably when I went to the Baltimore road meet in April of last year. Which is less than 300 miles away, but I made a day trip out of it. And I
made it into more than 300 miles one way on the way home even though it didn't need to be. :cool:
So... that was a few months shy of four years after I got my license. I got my license in July of 2006... summer after my first year of college (I was 18). At that point it was honestly something I did not because I was really excited and wanted it but more because A)I felt it had to be done, and B)it was getting embarrassing that I didn't have my license yet when everyone else did. Not that it really mattered... I was going to school in The Bronx, all travel for any purpose was easily accomplished on foot or by public transit. I only ever drove when I went home for the weekend or for winter/spring/summer break. It wasn't until a few years later (June 2009) that I would get my own car.
It then slowly sunk in that I could now drive wherever, whenever... :sombrero:
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 22, 2011, 12:29:44 AM
Do any states actually require driver education as a condition for granting a driver's license?
Connecticut will accept a signed form from a parent saying that the applicant has had so many hours (I think the requirement is 10) behind the wheel as a substitute for a trained driving instructor. But they do require that everyone take a 4 hour class from a licensed driving school about drugs and alcohol (when I got my license it was only 2 hours and only required for minors).
Quote from: Duke87 on August 22, 2011, 08:26:33 PMBut they do require that everyone take a 4 hour class from a licensed driving school about drugs and alcohol (when I got my license it was only 2 hours and only required for minors).
how exactly does that make you a better
driver? four hours would be best spent with a quick, ten-second "don't be a fucking idiot", followed by 3h, 59m, and 50s of actual relevant instruction.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 22, 2011, 08:38:33 PM
how exactly does that make you a better driver? four hours would be best spent with a quick, ten-second "don't be a fucking idiot", followed by 3h, 59m, and 50s of actual relevant instruction.
According to my sister, it was four hours of watching movies while the instructor went back to his office and did paperwork. Or jerked off. Or did something else other than teaching.
It's utter bullshit, but, you know, some louse in the state legislature no doubt thought it was a good way to fight drunk driving. Or
appear to be fighting drunk driving, which from a politician's perspective is a million times more important.
Quote from: allniter89 on August 21, 2011, 03:17:15 PMWhat was your first roadtrip over 300 miles you drove, from where to where?
Missed that one. Salaberry-de-Valleyfeld, QC – Parsippany, NJ, via Chateaugay, NY, US-11, Thruway, Taconic Pkwy and G.W. Br.
My first numbered highway experience was either OK 24 or OK 74. The first I drove on in drivers' ed was OK 24; can't remember if I ever did OK 74 with my parents before that though. First Interstate was I-35, of course.
With regards to inane tests: the driving instructor at the crowded Norman DPS office was widely regarded as being an utter douchebag about everything and due to his corpulence was known as the Donut King. My first try at the test was prematurely aborted by the Donut King when he took issue with me slowing down to avoid hitting a flock of birds. Apparently avoiding hazards is less important than not "obstructing traffic" by gently braking. I preferred driving to the more sedate Chickasha DPS office, an hour away, for my subsequent testing rather than having to contend with the Donut King again.
QuoteWhat was your first roadtrip over 300 miles you drove, from where to where?
I drove from McCall ID to Boise and back by myself or with friends a few times once I was a junior in high school, so late 2004-2006 when my parents would allow. That's a 200 mile roundtrip.
First 300+ was a 301 mile roundtrip right after I got to school in Washington. I didn't have a car yet but found out they had a couple old Ford Windstars available for students to rent- $20 for the day, no mileage cap, can't leave Washington. I had the driving bug, so in October of 2006 I drove from Tacoma to Tacoma by taking I-5 to Bellingham, SR 539 to Lynden, followed Boundary Rd along the US/Canadian border to Sumas, then back down on SR 9/SR 522/I-405. I took those vans out a few times before I got a car at the end of my first semester. I guess that was my first real roadgeek trip too- I did that drive just to do the drive and see the sights- absolutely no other agenda.
First 300+ one way was in March of 2007 after I got a car and drove from Tacoma to Coeur d'Alene ID to see some friends.
First numbered highway: US 220 (Wendover Ave.)
First interstate highway: I-40
QuoteWhat was your first roadtrip over 300 miles you drove, from where to where?
Round trip would've been from Hampton, GA to near Bonifay, FL and back not long after getting my learner's permit (circa 2003-ish) — US 19/41 to Griffin, GA 16 to Newnan, a very short segment of US 27A/29 to I-85 to I-185 to US 80 around the north side of Columbus, then US 431 to US 231 to AL 109/FL 77 to Graceville, then FL 2 to local roads. Somewhere around 450 miles round trip.
One way would've been from Acworth, GA to Gaithersburg, MD (May 2007) — all Interstate, I-75 to I-40 to I-81 to I-66 to I-495 to I-270, right around 670 miles.
I grew up near the I-235/Zoo Blvd. interchange in urban Wichita, so first highway driven was likely US 54 (at the time still a surface boulevard for much of its length), and first Interstate was I-235. First interurban journey was I-135 between Newton and Wichita, when I still had an instructional permit (my mother and a family friend supervised). First long-distance journey (more than 300 miles) was from Wichita to Omaha, Nebraska, via I-135, US 81, and I-80, on the instructional permit with my grandmother supervising. (My driver's education instructor actually advised against this trip, saying he could not be sure that my permit would be valid in Nebraska. He didn't actually say "Don't do it," however, so we went ahead and had no problems.) I think the first long-distance journey made off my own back (over 300 miles, in own car, by myself, with no-one supervising) was a round trip from Manhattan to Hays in early 1995, after I had already had my full license for almost three years.
My grandmother, by the way, passed away just a week ago today. She was aged 92 and had an interesting driving history. She did not actually learn how to drive until she was 35, and her instructor was my father, who was 10 at the time. Her sister and brother-in-law owned a sheep farm near Deerfield in far western Kansas and both my father and his older brother learned how to drive there. When my father began learning, he was so short he had to have bolsters on the pickup truck seat so he could see over the dashboard. This was in the summer of 1954.
In the 57 years she was driving, my grandmother had only a few minor fender-benders and got only one speeding ticket, in Wichita for 40 in a 25 on the bit of North River Boulevard between Nims and the Murdock bridge. She never actually gave up driving as she aged, although she quit trying to drive herself on long interurban journeys about 12 years ago and more or less stopped taking long trips (even with someone else doing the driving) a few years after that. When she had her final collapse, she had just finished parking her car in a handicapped space in front of a Dillons supermarket and was about to begin shopping for groceries.
Sorry to hear about your grandmother.
VA 156(the most important state route in the county by far) starting at a middle school just south of the intersection with US 460 with my learner's and the same road with my license(not including the road leaving my house to the highway)
My first driving was with Driver's Ed classes in 1976.
First freeway was US 35....
First highway would be what is now Ohio 835...so failing that, old US 35
First numbered highway: IN 106
First US highway: US 6
First 4-lane highway: US 31
First interstate highway: I-80/90
My first long-distance (>300Mi) trip was probably with my then-girlfriend, to a roadgeek meet in Novi, MI at the end of 2002. I'm not sure of the exact mileage, but considering a few small detours we made, it probably topped 300.
My first major trip behind the wheel (i drove a few times in the city) was on US-30 between Fort Wayne and around Valparaiso, IN. When we got to the toll road at the US-421 exit, I pulled over and let my dad drive the rest of the way home. Later that day, I drove on I-80 from Silvis, IL to Davenport, IA (~15 miles).
I don't think I've ever topped 300 miles in one trip, but I went from El Paso, IL (US-24 and I-39) to Burns Harbor, IN (I-94) and again from St. Joseph to St. Johns, MI. Total that day was about 250 miles.
The first time I drove a vehicle was my Grandfather's 1981 Dodge Ram pickup on rural gravel roads around Cheboygan, MI, in October 1994. We didn't get on any numbered highways, although we did take Hebron Town Hall Road over I-75. (That road is kinda trippy since the only paved segment of it is the I-75 overpass.) After that, I drove on gravel roads around Negaunee, MI, with my mom.
Once I was in driver's ed, the first state trunkline would have BUS M-28 followed by US 41/M-28. The first freeway would have been my first trip with my mom downstate when I'd have driven on I-75 between M-123 and C-66.
I was about ready to say the US1 freeway, till I remembered there was the actual Driver's Ed class, before I got my permit. So that would definitely make my first numbered highway ME123.
I remember driving on ME209 (and maybe 216), so that would involve the US1 freeway in order to get there. I can't remember what freeway came first though, that or taking I-95 (now 295) downa Pawtland, and "Classic 295" (as I call it). That trip included what I'm pretty sure was my only trip over the old Million Dollar Bridge on ME77 between Portland & SoPo. Construction was proceeding on the new Casco Bay Bridge alongside & overhead at the time. Pretty Funky. The new bridge opened only a few months later.
The first road I drove on was Md 214 at the U.S. 301 interchange in southern Anne Arundel County -- driver's ed class.
First highway was U.S. 50 in Maryland when I got my license.
First long trip (over 300 miles) was in 1988: Bensalem, PA to Cobourg, ON
QuoteThe first time I drove a vehicle was my Grandfather's 1981 Dodge Ram pickup on rural gravel roads around Cheboygan, MI, in October 1994.
Everyone should be required to drive an old (pre 1990- anything newer has too many gizmos to make it easy to drive), full-size pickup, especially with a manual transmission the first several times they ever drive a car. Good job to your grandfather!
nah, a small, old beater car is even better a learning experience. having a powerful engine will forgive many mistakes.
I learned to drive on an '82 Rabbit when I was 11.
Quotehaving a powerful engine will forgive many mistakes.
Having a pickup unforgives them- a big torquey pickup with no weight in the back can be a real challenge to drive on ice, even with 4WD
But really, anything old and simple is good. If you learn to drive on one of these new fancy cars with stability control and lane departure warnings and backup cameras and whatnot it's too easy
Seems that western states (well, interior west) are quite liberal when it comes to giving teenagers licenses. Well... can't have the government intruding on our God-given right to drive at sixteen, obviously.
Utah: One can get his learner's permit at fifteen, which enables you to drive with a parent during daylight hours. To qualify for a license at sixteen, forty hours supervised driving - ten at night - must occur with a log sheet. As in Nevada, you never had to show a log sheet; a parent just had to validate.
Driver's ed is required only if you get your license before eighteen. Driver's ed, suffice to say, is a joke. I took it in high school. It consisted of something like thirty hours of classroom time: mind-numbing worksheets; horrendously produced videos from the '70s and '80s (this was only several years ago, mind you!) that taught me, among few other things, to never give your PIN number to carjackers and to always signal when pulling out of parking spaces; and tests that were almost carbon copies of the worksheets. Then, six hours on the range. Oh, the wonder of doing multiple maneuvers of backing up in a straight line (which several in my class failed to do), driving in a figure eight, parking in an angled stall, what have you. Finally, six hours of driving with the instructor on city streets. I was lucky: my range/road instructor was smart enough to take me on rural canyon freeways, dark desert highways, and urban freeways at rush hour. Didn't learn anything that I learned through driving on a learner's permit, but nevertheless.
So, forty hours of state-sanctioned instruction and fifteen dollars later, I was awarded a Utah driver's license. It took minimal effort. Ah... the nostalgia of looking back. Back when I was totally oblivious to the ineptitude of the vast majority of drivers. Perhaps we should start a thread on driving pet peeves, because they are myriad.
Quote from: CL on August 24, 2011, 12:39:27 AM
Seems that western states (well, interior west) are quite liberal when it comes to giving teenagers licenses. Well... can't have the government intruding on our God-given right to drive at sixteen, obviously.
Utah: One can get his learner's permit at fifteen, which enables you to drive with a parent during daylight hours. To qualify for a license at sixteen, forty hours supervised driving - ten at night - must occur with a log sheet. As in Nevada, you never had to show a log sheet; a parent just had to validate.
Driver's ed is required only if you get your license before eighteen. Driver's ed, suffice to say, is a joke. I took it in high school. It consisted of something like thirty hours of classroom time: mind-numbing worksheets; horrendously produced videos from the '70s and '80s (this was only several years ago, mind you!) that taught me, among few other things, to never give your PIN number to carjackers and to always signal when pulling out of parking spaces; and tests that were almost carbon copies of the worksheets. Then, six hours on the range. Oh, the wonder of doing multiple maneuvers of backing up in a straight line (which several in my class failed to do), driving in a figure eight, parking in an angled stall, what have you. Finally, six hours of driving with the instructor on city streets. I was lucky: my range/road instructor was smart enough to take me on rural canyon freeways, dark desert highways, and urban freeways at rush hour. Didn't learn anything that I learned through driving on a learner's permit, but nevertheless.
So, forty hours of state-sanctioned instruction and fifteen dollars later, I was awarded a Utah driver's license. It took minimal effort. Ah... the nostalgia of looking back. Back when I was totally oblivious to the ineptitude of the vast majority of drivers. Perhaps we should start a thread on driving pet peeves, because they are myriad.
When I went through driver's ed, I was in the last year before the switch to graduated licensing in Michigan. The Monday after school let out for the summer, we started classes. Our district had four instructors and two cars for the course. During the mornings, both cars were on the road each staffed with an instructor while the other two taught the classes. In the afternoon, they traded off. For two weeks, I sat in class for the bookwork segment in the afternoon, watching similar videos and doing similar worksheets. I signed up for a timeslot at 6 am to drive starting the first day. I traded with my timeslot partner for an hour each behind the wheel for three days in the early morning. We had to "pass" imaginary cars on the four-lane section of US 41/M-28. One morning, we had to drive in figure-8s, forward and reverse. Since we were running short on time the last day, my instructor took the week to demonstrate how to parallel park. Once I completed the classroom portion, since I had already completed the driving (some students had to wait for 3 weeks to get behind the wheel), they issued me a post-dated permit. On the appointed day, you could see all my fellow students showing up at the Secretary of State's branch office to take the written test and validate the permit.
After that point, in theory, we had to drive a minimum number of supervised hours with a parent or guardian before we paid the fee to convert our permit into a full license. (My mom "certified" to the SoS that had completed the number of hours required and that I had her permission to get the license.) I waited an additional 6 months after I turned 16 to get my license because I didn't need a license. At the time, I didn't have to go anywhere in the car alone since I walked to school and I didn't have an after-school job. I got my license in time to drive to my junior prom.
Now, Michigan has a whole series of requirements for those under 18 to meet to get a license, but if someone is already 18, they just need to apply for a permit, drive with a licensed driver and take the tests. (The driving test was administered to me during the course of my supervised driving by my instructor.)
Quote from: corco on August 23, 2011, 11:05:35 PM
QuoteThe first time I drove a vehicle was my Grandfather's 1981 Dodge Ram pickup on rural gravel roads around Cheboygan, MI, in October 1994.
Everyone should be required to drive an old (pre 1990- anything newer has too many gizmos to make it easy to drive), full-size pickup, especially with a manual transmission the first several times they ever drive a car. Good job to your grandfather!
Yeah, well, the truck (he still has it) is an automatic. I didn't learn to drive a stick until my first boyfriend taught me in college. My first car of my "own" was an '83 Olds Cutlass Ciera that my parents bought from my grandma when she got a newer car. I still remember the day I had to drive it down to the garage when one of the belts went on it and the power steering was out. It's one thing to drive a truck that doesn't have power steering, but it's another to drive a car like that, which means overcoming the force needed to steer and the force needed to overcome the inoperative mechanism impeding you.
I did learn in a hurry just how good that truck's brakes are. The biggest challenge so far was when I drove the moving truck to get me from Traverse City to Grand Rapids. I had driven a rental truck like that before for a short distance at work, but that was the first time I had pulled a trailer. I last saw my car in the rearview mirrors going around the sharp curve on M-113, and I didn't see it again until I stopped in Granville to drop the trailer, and my car, at the drop off location. (I knew I wasn't going to attempt to back up that truck and trailer near this apartment complex.)
I think US 30.
The licensing in Minnesota in the mid-80s worked as follows:
You could get a learner's permit at age 15; you had to be 16 for the full license. To get the permit you had to have 30 hours classroom instruction and pass a simple test. Then you needed some number of hours (I want to say 6 or eight) of behind-the-wheel training.
The first highway I drove on (as part of the behind-the-wheel) would have been either MN-51 or (more likely) MN-36. The first highway I drove on in non-training situations was almost certainly MN-49. As a licensed driver, the first highway I drove on was I-35W (the testing station is right off the freeway).
edit: removed autosmiley
Quote from: corco on August 23, 2011, 11:05:35 PM
Everyone should be required to drive an old (pre 1990- anything newer has too many gizmos to make it easy to drive), full-size pickup, especially with a manual transmission the first several times they ever drive a car. Good job to your grandfather!
Why? I have never in my life been inside a pickup, let alone behind the wheel, and that's unlikely to change (what use would I have for it?).
As for the transmission issue, well... I frankly don't see how not being able to drive a stick is a big deal. In North America, you're never going to end up driving one unless you ask for it. In fact, I think I've been a passenger in a manual transmission car a grand total of three times in my entire life. They're pretty rare.
QuoteWhy? I have never in my life been inside a pickup, let alone behind the wheel, and that's unlikely to change (what use would I have for it?).
As for the transmission issue, well... I frankly don't see how not being able to drive a stick is a big deal. In North America, you're never going to end up driving one unless you ask for it. In fact, I think I've been a passenger in a manual transmission car a grand total of three times in my entire life. They're pretty rare.
Has to do with maneuverability- it's a hell of a lot harder to drive a giant truck with a manual than a small car with an automatic- if you're capable of driving a giant 2WD truck with a manual in bad road conditions, you're not going to ever encounter a situation where you lack the skills necessary to drive safely.
I don't know, I guess it's a regional thing. Where I grew up in rural Idaho, manual transmissions still make up about 50% of the cars, simply because they're preferred for deep snow. In any rural area in the country, you're going to see a lot more sticks and a lot more pickups (that are used as pickups).
Large vehicles are harder to drive, especially with weird weight distribution like in a pickup. Just driving a manual teaches you a lot more about how the car works than an automatic ever will, and I think knowing those things are important because you never know when you'll get stuck in those situations. I've definitely been in situations where I've been at a party and didn't end up drinking for whatever reason and had to drive people home in someone else's car, with the only car available being a stick shift.
A few months ago I took a job as a valet because I needed some extra income- if I didn't know how to drive a stick they wouldn't have hired me. The internship I had for a couple summers required me to go out in the field a lot. The vehicle I was issued was a 1992 F-250 with a manual transmission- lots of small town municipal governments have manual transmission cars because they tend to be cheaper and small towns on tight budgets would rather not pay an extra $4000 for an automatic. It was a ridiculously inconvenient car for the work I was doing, which involved a lot of stop and go and driving at 3 MPH- a small car with automatic would have been ideal, but I was at the bottom of the totem pole and that was the vehicle they had available, so I took it. The University of Arizona actually has manual transmission cars in their motorpool! Not many, but a few.
You don't need to be comfortable maneuvering a pickup now, but when somebody calls and offers you a ton of money to move to Seattle, I'd rather know that you have some experience driving something the size of/weight-distributed like a U-Haul before you just get behind the wheel and figure it out, especially if it's wintertime.
Largely it's probably a regional thing. I've spent 0 time in Connecticut- I don't know what life is like in Connecticut. I know in Idaho and Wyoming, you're shooting yourself in the foot pretty badly if you can't drive a stick- so maybe to say as a blanket statement that everyone should be required is incorrect. I would maintain that everyone in Idaho and Wyoming should be required to drive an old pickup with a gnarly manual transmission when they learn to drive.
it's up for debate which is a more fun winter drive - a large truck with a manual, or a small car. the large truck indeed has an unusual weight distribution, but the small car is likelier to stall, and there are situations in the snow in which a large truck will have the clearance/power/etc that the small car will not.
that said, I've never driven a large truck in the winter. My only experience with a manual-transmission large vehicle was a 1979 International Harvester Scout in New Mexico (about 50 miles, summer) and some kind of new rental SUV in Iceland (about 3000 mi, all kinds of nasty roads, including two-tracks on inclines up to 43%, and a few river fords, but no weather more inclement than a light rain).
as for small cars, I've driven manual and automatic in all kinds of horrific weather and I much prefer the extra degree of control of a manual transmission.
plus, Corco's general point does stand - knowing how to drive stick is a very useful skill. even if you rarely use the skill ... it's better to have and not need, than to need and not have!
I think everyone should be required to take their drivers test on a manual-transmission car. It actually makes you pay much closer attention to the road and surrounding traffic.
QuoteI think everyone should be required to take their drivers test on a manual-transmission car. It actually makes you pay much closer attention to the road and surrounding traffic.
This I fully agree with. Especially if you're not comfortable driving a manual- you're not texting or masturbating to your GPS or whatever- you're focusing on the road and other cars.
Quoteit's up for debate which is a more fun winter drive - a large truck with a manual, or a small car. the large truck indeed has an unusual weight distribution, but the small car is likelier to stall, and there are situations in the snow in which a large truck will have the clearance/power/etc that the small car will not.
It's weird- a big truck is easier to stall at takeoff- if you're not used to that kind of torque you're likely to pull the clutch out too quickly. If you're in a small car and going uphill on ice the power issue comes into play, but if you get a running start before going uphill you can easily negate that. Downshifting uphill on ice can be tricky, but you're still going uphill so as long as you don't steer into a ditch (if you steer into a ditch going uphill, even without snow driving experience, you're an idiot) the correct amount of gas pedal pressure combined with a smooth shift should yield success.
Quote from: corco on August 26, 2011, 07:33:24 PM
I don't know, I guess it's a regional thing. Where I grew up in rural Idaho, manual transmissions still make up about 50% of the cars, simply because they're preferred for deep snow. In any rural area in the country, you're going to see a lot more sticks and a lot more pickups (that are used as pickups).
Yeah, see that's just it. The only people around here that have manual trannies are douchebags who insist that it's the way
real men drive a car. And while contractors and landscapers have pickups to move equipment and whatnot around in, your average citizen isn't going to have one parked in their driveway unless it's a toy spare car.
But yeah, Connecticut doesn't get snow like Idaho. And doesn't have farms like Idaho.
It's all well and good to say it may be a useful skill to be able to drive manual, but had it been required, it would have been quite a pickle. Nobody in my family has one. Nor did any of my friends in high school. It's not like I
chose not to learn how to drive a stick, I've never had the opportunity to!
Quote from: corco on August 26, 2011, 07:33:24 PMI would maintain that everyone in Idaho and Wyoming should be required to drive an old pickup with a gnarly manual transmission when they learn to drive.
Can you double-clutch?
Yes, but I don't do it normally- usually only if I need to downshift when I'm driving down an icy grade and want to engine brake without lurching, but I usually try to avoid that situation by being in the lowest gear I'll need to be in as I start my descent.
There's also one hill up to my parents house where you when you turn to drive up the hill, you downshift from third to second and in most cars you either have to slow way down or it's way, way smoother to double clutch to get up that hill.
I do know how to rev-match, though- I've successfully driven a manual without a functional clutch on a couple of occasions
In South Dakota, you could drive at 14. I took Driver's Ed, and needed a few months with an adult driver, and restricted driving hours. At 16, you could get an actual license, with no restrictions.
My first US highway is US 281 near Aberdeen. My first Interstate is I-29 near Summit/Watertown.
MA-128 (no steenkin' I-95 back then), at 7AM on a Saturday, while I was taking driving lessons in 1966. Almost no traffic, a perfect opportunity for the instructor to show us high-speed driving techniques without a lot of risk from other cars.
First highway was US 60 in Shelbyville, KY and first Interstate was I-65 in Louisville
First "highway" was NH route 108, first freeway was NH route 101.
Day 2 of Driver's Ed, my instructor felt we were ready for the 55 Freeway. Day 1 was surface streets, so CA-55 was my first highway driven.
US 1/301. First freeway was I-95.
VA 156 from just south of US 460 to VA 35/US 301.
Quote from: US-43|72 on October 26, 2011, 05:03:28 AM
First "highway" was NH route 108, first freeway was NH route 101.
That was my first (and only, I think) SPUI. Bagged it in an `85 Turbodiesel too.
Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on August 22, 2011, 12:49:57 AM
Driver's ed is required in QC since two years ago (or something like that). The course costs around $900, and you have your learner's permit for 12 months.
I noticed that vehicles with Quebec plates have been behaving better lately. Used to be a menace.
(I'm being quite serious...I have definitely observed this!)
EDIT: The actual topic - My first highway must have been NY 286...from my house it was a 4-lane divided highway heading down a steep grade and I vaguely remember trying my hand at that once I was "ready".
First Interstate and probably first freeway was I-490, no doubt.
The CHARLESTON HY (US 78) in Aiken County was the first highway I drove on. This was in late August 1999. I drove from Montmorenci, S.C. to the Aiken-Barnwell County line that day.
I've been able to drive farm trucks and tractors since I was 11. The first roads that I legally drove on were MD 165, MD 136, US 1 after I got my learner's permit in 2003. The first interstates were 95 and 695, at 80 mph, because the instructor insisted that I was wasn't driving fast enough and that we would get shoved off the road if we didn't go that fast! Now you all know where I get it from...
First trip longer than 300 miles would be from Lynchburg, VA to York, PA in 2006. It was a 302 mile trip because I took US 501 to I-81 to PA 581 to 83 South to York (so that I could clinch 81 to Harrisburg mostly).