it seems the mainline toll plaza just east of the farley service area has become a evac bottle neck, 6 lanes going down to 3 after exiting the toll lanes. This is while watching WPVI channel 6 Action news with a live chopper 6 feed.
are they actually making the evacuees pay toll? I'd imagine they'd waive the fee just to minimize the traffic disruption.
Not sure about the fee on the AC Expressway, but I know on the Garden State Parkway, tolls are "waved" (sic :pan:) from Cape May to the Raritan South toll plaza.
It seems that they are just being funneled through the toll plaza, without being tolled. But since they have to slow down, go through the toll lanes, then merge afterwards it is creating a bottleneck.
Are they using contraflow?
Quote from: mtantillo on August 26, 2011, 05:21:19 PMtolls are "waved" (sic :pan:)
is the missing "I" just to fit the message onto a fixed-character VMS?
Quote from: Brandon on August 26, 2011, 08:11:00 PM
Are they using contraflow?
Can't speak for the ACE, but the Garden State Parkway I believe is.
Last i saw of the ACE it was still set up for normal flow
The Weather Channel just reported that NJ 47, NJ 347 and NJ 72 are contraflowed, as is the Parkway up to Exit 98. No mention of the Atlantic City Expressway.
And to think, last week I was considering driving down to Cape May this weekend!
Oh well, another time.
I think they are directing traffic over to the GSP NB to exit 98, Since ACE east bound is closed at the pleasantville toll plaza. Probalby using both 195 and the expressway to handle evac traffic.
Are they cancelling Jersey Shore?
I heard GSP is NOT contraflow, but is ready for it tomorrow if need be. 47/347/72, yes.
Quote from: Steve on August 27, 2011, 12:17:50 AM
I heard GSP is NOT contraflow, but is ready for it tomorrow if need be. 47/347/72, yes.
Channel 6 (reporting from Cape May so who knows how far north this is true...) says the southbound side of the Parkway is reserved for emergency vehicles as of now (7:40 a.m.)
Quote from: Michael in Philly on August 27, 2011, 07:40:16 AM
Quote from: Steve on August 27, 2011, 12:17:50 AM
I heard GSP is NOT contraflow, but is ready for it tomorrow if need be. 47/347/72, yes.
Channel 6 (reporting from Cape May so who knows how far north this is true...) says the southbound side of the Parkway is reserved for emergency vehicles as of now (7:40 a.m.)
Wouldn't following the example of the southern states that have had to deal with hurricanes be more prudent? Save the shoulder for emergency vehicles and try to get as many people out of there as possible.
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2011, 08:11:45 AM
Quote from: Michael in Philly on August 27, 2011, 07:40:16 AM
Quote from: Steve on August 27, 2011, 12:17:50 AM
I heard GSP is NOT contraflow, but is ready for it tomorrow if need be. 47/347/72, yes.
Channel 6 (reporting from Cape May so who knows how far north this is true...) says the southbound side of the Parkway is reserved for emergency vehicles as of now (7:40 a.m.)
Wouldn't following the example of the southern states that have had to deal with hurricanes be more prudent? Save the shoulder for emergency vehicles and try to get as many people out of there as possible.
Who, me? I just work here....
From what i saw the ogvernor is going to use contraflow if needed, since we have as of this writing 14 hours and 50 minutes until it is expected to hit. He may authorise contraflow at that point. The parkway does not have shoulders along its bridges, so they cannot use them for evac traffic.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on August 27, 2011, 11:11:05 AM
From what i saw the ogvernor is going to use contraflow if needed, since we have as of this writing 14 hours and 50 minutes until it is expected to hit. He may authorise contraflow at that point. The parkway does not have shoulders along its bridges, so they cannot use them for evac traffic.
That, and, once you start contraflow, you have to keep it going. Better to monitor traffic and see a) how much throughput you're getting, b) how much delay you're getting, c) how long it'll take to complete evacuation given a) and b).
Agree with Steve. Contraflow is VERY manpower intensive, as you have to make sure people don't go the wrong way down ramps at both ends of the ramps. Simply closing off one side of the road requires significantly less manpower, as you simply put a barricade up and close the road. Most people* aren't stupid enough to run a barricade, but if the road is closed, someone who runs a barricade will simply be where they aren't supposed to be. If the road is contraflow and someone runs a barricade, people can get killed. Thus a barricade isn't enough, and you actually will want some kind of police presence at each ramp to make 100% sure no one gets on going the "normal" way during contraflow. The only way around this is if permanent gates are installed on all the ramps, like I-64 in Virginia. The gates are long enough that they can block the entire ramp, shoulders, etc., unlike a normal barricade that can easily be driven around.
Like Steve said, you can do calculations based on the number of people needing to evacuate and the throughput of the road...they can be done in realtime using population data and roadway sensors. If the evacuation can be completed before the onset of tropical storm force winds, then its a lot easier to simply maintain normal operations so people can use the roads the way they are familiar. If the evacuation cannot be completed, then contraflow is used to save human lives. When contraflow is in effect, though, it makes it much more difficult to get hurricane preparation supplies into the affected area before the storm. In the case of a small category 1 storm, with a good number of people staying behind (those that live inland off the barrier islands), and officials want ways to get items into the area to protect those people and the property of those who shelter in place. In the case of a much more devestating category 4 storm, "the property is going to be destroyed anyway", and everyone should be evacuating. Thus, much less need to have an inbound roadway open and much greater need to get more people out of harms way, quickly. I think in Virginia, I-64 reversal would only be implemented if a category 3 or greater storm was on the way.
I assume that the minor two-lane roads mentioned as being contraflow were converted because they are only one-lane under normal conditions.
*I saw a guy run a barricade in Virginia for the HOV lanes on I-95. The lanes were "supposed" to be open northbound, but they were closed for construction over a weekend back in April. Guy ran right around it because obviously if the gates are closed after 4PM on Saturday, it MUST be a mistake! Well, he was promptly pulled over by Virginia State Police guarding the work area...and the trooper didn't look very happy.
I would think that contraflow would be difficult to execute properly unless preparations were made well in advance. When I went to the Slidell, La. road meet a few years ago, I noticed that a lot of flip-down signage was installed on I-59 in the southern part of Mississippi, facing away from southbound traffic, to be opened up and used in the event of a contraflow situation.
Plus hurricanes are so rare this far up the coast that a lot of people probably don't even know what contraflow is.
What they ought to do with toll plazas during evacuations when they waive the tolls is to close every toll lane except for the same number of lanes as the road has (eg, on a road with three lanes in each direction, leave three toll lanes open) to discourage people from spreading out to go through all the lanes only to have to merge back down immediately. I suppose some people might still try to cut around in the open space on either side of the toll plaza, but no doubt it would be a smaller number.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 28, 2011, 07:26:43 PM
What they ought to do with toll plazas during evacuations when they waive the tolls is to close every toll lane except for the same number of lanes as the road has (eg, on a road with three lanes in each direction, leave three toll lanes open) to discourage people from spreading out to go through all the lanes only to have to merge back down immediately. I suppose some people might still try to cut around in the open space on either side of the toll plaza, but no doubt it would be a smaller number.
Don't they have open road tolling? If so, the ORT lanes should be used instead of the plaza itself.
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 28, 2011, 07:26:43 PM
What they ought to do with toll plazas during evacuations when they waive the tolls is to close every toll lane except for the same number of lanes as the road has (eg, on a road with three lanes in each direction, leave three toll lanes open) to discourage people from spreading out to go through all the lanes only to have to merge back down immediately. I suppose some people might still try to cut around in the open space on either side of the toll plaza, but no doubt it would be a smaller number.
Problem is how different people treat tolls. I took the MassPike (free today) to Exit 9 (I-84). They leave all toll lanes open exiting the highway. The cars in front of me picked random lanes and came nearly to a stop every time. I swung out to the far cash lane and breezed through at 40 mph. So... the more lanes, the more chance I have to get around dumbasses.
Quote from: Brandon on August 28, 2011, 10:39:59 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 28, 2011, 07:26:43 PM
What they ought to do with toll plazas during evacuations when they waive the tolls is to close every toll lane except for the same number of lanes as the road has (eg, on a road with three lanes in each direction, leave three toll lanes open) to discourage people from spreading out to go through all the lanes only to have to merge back down immediately. I suppose some people might still try to cut around in the open space on either side of the toll plaza, but no doubt it would be a smaller number.
Don't they have open road tolling? If so, the ORT lanes should be used instead of the plaza itself.
Oh, absolutely. I meant my observation more generally because not all toll roads have high-speed ORT lanes. Any time you let people spread out only to have the choke back down, you create an opportunity for them to cause an unnecessary backup. Using the ORT lanes would help solve the problem Steve notes because there wouldn't be a reason to slow through those.
I suppose on some roads, there are fewer high-speed ORT lanes than the highway has regular lanes and in those situations it might make sense to leave a regular one open as well. It really depends on the design of the specific facility.
But in general, discouraging people from thinking this is their chance to race a whole three carlengths ahead is usually helpful at keeping things moving as long as there's not some other design peculiarity (such as an on-ramp just after the toll that adds more traffic...although DC-area drivers would think the acceleration/merge lane is for them to use as a passing lane).