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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: WolfGuy100 on September 22, 2011, 04:16:29 PM

Title: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: WolfGuy100 on September 22, 2011, 04:16:29 PM
I was browsing around on Google Map until I found this interchange in Kentucky.

http://g.co/maps/hv23t

It's located on Bluegrass Parkway in Kentucky. I have NEVER seen anything like that, even I went past that area few times in the past, I have never seen anything like that before.

So, beside that, any of you guys seen a most unusual interchange such as that one?
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Ian on September 22, 2011, 04:18:56 PM
Reminds me of this:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=agne-gardien,+qc&hl=en&ll=45.345902,-72.783995&spn=0.008822,0.01929&sll=45.349491,-72.837639&sspn=0.141149,0.308647&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=16
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: NE2 on September 22, 2011, 04:40:37 PM
There used to be a toll booth under the bridge. Oklahoma also did this, I believe, as did Quebec (the example above plus others).
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: agentsteel53 on September 22, 2011, 04:54:15 PM
what is the advantage of that?  it seems like it takes up more space than a diamond, and has the same weaving problems as a clover.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: NE2 on September 22, 2011, 05:09:25 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 22, 2011, 04:54:15 PM
what is the advantage of that?
It allows mainline and ramp tolls to be collected at one place.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: bassoon1986 on September 22, 2011, 05:23:51 PM
theres this one too, further west in KY:



http://maps.google.com/?ll=36.645656,-88.753516&spn=0.001573,0.002411&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=19&layer=c&cbll=36.645579,-88.753606&panoid=VL0cLbvtJpOIqrb3ZlRD_Q&cbp=12,57.84,,0,-6.41 (http://maps.google.com/?ll=36.645656,-88.753516&spn=0.001573,0.002411&t=h&vpsrc=6&z=19&layer=c&cbll=36.645579,-88.753606&panoid=VL0cLbvtJpOIqrb3ZlRD_Q&cbp=12,57.84,,0,-6.41)

crazy if you're trying to merge on
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: agentsteel53 on September 22, 2011, 05:31:57 PM
I had not thought about that.

how many tollbooths could they squeeze under the bridge?  3 in each direction, to serve the corresponding two lanes?
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: NE2 on September 22, 2011, 05:53:44 PM
Here's one still in use in Oklahoma: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=tulsa,+ok&hl=en&ll=34.362445,-98.409697&spn=0.007882,0.020599&gl=us&t=m&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=34.362445,-98.409697&panoid=nciHxIe9w3T-CEthFlZxXg&cbp=12,169.99,,0,4.73
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Alex on September 22, 2011, 06:54:58 PM
I thought I read somewhere that the ones in Kentucky are slated to be removed over time due to the weaving traffic concerns.

Anyway, here is another on Pennyrile Parkway northbound at Kentucky 56:

(https://www.aaroads.com/queue/cache/forum-images/dsc_0298_w1000_h669.jpg)
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Revive 755 on September 22, 2011, 06:56:42 PM
How about a one-sided version that includes a service road:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.358909,-87.890604&spn=0.013034,0.033023&t=k&z=16&vpsrc=6 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.358909,-87.890604&spn=0.013034,0.033023&t=k&z=16&vpsrc=6)
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Central Avenue on September 22, 2011, 07:41:44 PM
I'm reminded of the I-270/OH 3 interchange in Westerville, though that only uses this configuration for one side. (http://g.co/maps/t7g65)
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Duke87 on September 22, 2011, 07:50:30 PM
I-91 exit 7 in Vermont (http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.26705,-72.426682&spn=0.016812,0.042272&t=m&z=15&vpsrc=6) is half like this, although there never was a toll there. In that case the reason seems to be so that the more popular traffic movement (towards Springfield) can make right turns onto and off of the ramps. The interchange is basically a half cloverleaf with the ramps modified to allow left turns.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Brandon on September 22, 2011, 11:15:41 PM
A terrible idea for a toll plaza, IMHO.  I think ISTHA had the right idea by keeping toll plazas separate from interchanges.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: ghYHZ on September 23, 2011, 06:35:30 AM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on September 22, 2011, 04:18:56 PM
Reminds me of this:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=agne-gardien,+qc&hl=en&ll=45.345902,-72.783995&spn=0.008822,0.01929&sll=45.349491,-72.837639&sspn=0.141149,0.308647&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=16
.......and if you drag the street-view icon to the building on the south-side of the highway you can still see where the canopy extended over the toll booths. This was the Eastern Townships Autoroute or "Autoroute des Cantons de l'Est"  
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: hbelkins on September 23, 2011, 12:19:05 PM
Yes, these types of interchanges were used as toll collection points  on Kentucky's parkways. All traffic had to stop and pay toll, and there were generally three booths for each direction of travel. The leftmost one was unmanned and was correct change only for passenger vehicles. The center one was staffed and accommodated all vehicles that didn't exceed width restrictions for through traffic. The rightmost one handled through traffic, and traffic entering or exiting, as well as overwidth loads. The toll for exiting was usually half of what the thru traffic toll was, and the proper procedure was to tell the attendant "just got on" or "getting off here" and then either toss your coins in the bucket, or hand a bill to the attendant for change. The attendant always threw the toll amount in the basket and gave you your change.

There were a few mainline toll booths on Kentucky's parkways, not at exits, but the idea was to collect money from traffic entering or exiting at reasonably high-volume points.

The KY 11 interchange on the Mountain Parkway had the toll booths on the bridge, as the four-lane crossed over the two-lane at this location. I think all the rest of the plazas had the toll booths underneath the bridge where the surface route crossed the parkway.

Only three of these type interchanges have been rebuilt, to the best of my knowledge -- KY 11/Mountain Parkway, US 127/Bluegrass Parkway, and KY 259/Western Kentucky Parkway.

Traffic is so light at these exits that weaving isn't a terribly major problem.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Mr_Northside on September 23, 2011, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: Central Avenue on September 22, 2011, 07:41:44 PM
I'm reminded of the I-270/OH 3 interchange in Westerville, though that only uses this configuration for one side. (http://g.co/maps/t7g65)

I-79 @ US 40, just south of the south I-70 junction, is pretty much the same thing as well.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: hbelkins on September 23, 2011, 01:58:50 PM
Then there's this, the I-79/US 33-119 exit at Weston, WV: http://g.co/maps/jfds2
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: agentsteel53 on September 23, 2011, 02:03:36 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 23, 2011, 01:58:50 PM
Then there's this, the I-79/US 33-119 exit at Weston, WV: http://g.co/maps/jfds2

I see US-48 shields.  do they exist in the wild there?
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: froggie on September 23, 2011, 02:33:18 PM
Not that far west.  Brian Powell just E-mailed me saying the US 48 entry on Google Maps west of Elkins is in error...there are no signs posted there yet.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: vdeane on September 23, 2011, 02:35:27 PM
Looks like I-81 near Syracuse Airport: http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.115834,-76.13328&spn=0.019611,0.036049&t=m&z=15&vpsrc=6
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: WolfGuy100 on September 23, 2011, 04:06:19 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 22, 2011, 04:40:37 PM
There used to be a toll booth under the bridge. Oklahoma also did this, I believe, as did Quebec (the example above plus others).
It was configured for toll booths under the bridge? I never knew that.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: NE2 on September 23, 2011, 04:21:34 PM
Obviously not, or you would not have made this thread...
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: 1995hoo on September 23, 2011, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 23, 2011, 01:58:50 PM
Then there's this, the I-79/US 33-119 exit at Weston, WV: http://g.co/maps/jfds2

From looking at the Street View, I wonder if the terrain might have been a factor in the interchange design there.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: xcellntbuy on September 23, 2011, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: deanej on September 23, 2011, 02:35:27 PM
Looks like I-81 near Syracuse Airport: http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.115834,-76.13328&spn=0.019611,0.036049&t=m&z=15&vpsrc=6
The US 11/Interstate 81 interchange used to be nightmare in Mattydale back in 1982 when it was an actual traffic circle under the Interstate and the concrete surface was extremely worn down from all the salt and sand dumped on it.  I believe the traffic circle aspect of the junction with US 11 was modified to some degree many years ago when the six-lane portions of Interstate 81 were finally rehabilitated and the highway realigned through Liverpool.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: pianocello on September 23, 2011, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: deanej on September 23, 2011, 02:35:27 PM
Looks like I-81 near Syracuse Airport: http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.115834,-76.13328&spn=0.019611,0.036049&t=m&z=15&vpsrc=6

There are many interchanges of that sort along Illinois Tollways (mainly the Tri-State)
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Brandon on September 23, 2011, 09:54:16 PM
Quote from: pianocello on September 23, 2011, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: deanej on September 23, 2011, 02:35:27 PM
Looks like I-81 near Syracuse Airport: http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.115834,-76.13328&spn=0.019611,0.036049&t=m&z=15&vpsrc=6

There are many interchanges of that sort along Illinois Tollways (mainly the Tri-State)

Not quite like that one, and many of them are a lot saner.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 23, 2011, 11:33:05 PM
Quote from: Central Avenue on September 22, 2011, 07:41:44 PM
I'm reminded of the I-270/OH 3 interchange in Westerville, though that only uses this configuration for one side. (http://g.co/maps/t7g65)
ODOT likes that design.
There's two interchanges like that in Cincy  one on I-75 for the Western Hill Viaduct (http://g.co/maps/gq9du) and  another one on US 50 west of downtown (http://g.co/maps/wfzrh), one in Youngstown at the NE corner of their "innerbelt" (http://g.co/maps/x44vh), and another one in Coshocton  of all places (http://g.co/maps/yaqhj).
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: ethanman62187 on September 24, 2011, 01:42:40 PM
A 4 ramp cloverleaf. That suffers from weaving. I had never seen anything like this before.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: TheStranger on September 24, 2011, 06:41:40 PM
Similar thing for the southbound Eastshore Freeway (west I-80/east I-580) at University Avenue in Berkeley -

http://g.co/maps/rafxn
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: hbelkins on September 25, 2011, 07:16:27 PM
Here's a view of the toll booth setup most commonly used in Kentucky. In this situation only the rightmost booth is manned, the center one is exact change only (you can tell that the sign is changeable, whereas the one for the leftmost booth isn't). This is eastbound on the Cumberland Parkway at the US 68/KY 80 Edmonton exit. Taken in the late 1990s.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.static.flickr.com%2F6169%2F6182356685_23be9f9aaa_z.jpg&hash=ec70f9f84df7a1b7e1b609d655ae2b0fc0dbbb26)


Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Brandon on September 25, 2011, 07:33:42 PM
^^ Why not separate the plaza from the interchange and put a basket on the ramps?
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: agentsteel53 on September 25, 2011, 08:26:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2011, 07:16:27 PM
Here's a view of the toll booth setup most commonly used in Kentucky. In this situation only the rightmost booth is manned, the center one is exact change only (you can tell that the sign is changeable, whereas the one for the leftmost booth isn't). This is eastbound on the Cumberland Parkway at the US 68/KY 80 Edmonton exit. Taken in the late 1990s.

[photo]


is that button copy?  not something Kentucky is known for.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: hbelkins on September 25, 2011, 08:40:18 PM
No, not button copy. The last button copy sign in Kentucky was on southbound I-71 / I-75 for the KY 236 exit and it was mounted to one of the I-275 flyovers. It disappeared sometime between 1998 and 2000.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: ethanman62187 on October 02, 2011, 10:26:20 AM
So, a toll booth under a bridge. Never heard of anything like that before.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Brandon on October 02, 2011, 03:14:10 PM
Quote from: ethanman62187 on October 02, 2011, 10:26:20 AM
So, a toll booth under a bridge. Never heard of anything like that before.

Common in Oklahoma and Kentucky.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: Scott5114 on October 02, 2011, 06:42:44 PM
Kansas also used to have a tollbooth under the bridge at the southern terminus of the Kansas Turnpike, although the interchange was a typical config. It was removed when KTA needed to expand the capacity of the tollbooth.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: shadyjay on October 03, 2011, 02:20:57 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on September 22, 2011, 07:50:30 PM
I-91 exit 7 in Vermont (http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.26705,-72.426682&spn=0.016812,0.042272&t=m&z=15&vpsrc=6) is half like this, although there never was a toll there. In that case the reason seems to be so that the more popular traffic movement (towards Springfield) can make right turns onto and off of the ramps. The interchange is basically a half cloverleaf with the ramps modified to allow left turns.

Geography of that area lent to the placement of the ramps at that interchange.  If you view this shot of I-91 NB at the interchange, you'll see a bridge, then houses.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.264126,-72.433604&spn=0.005305,0.011362&t=m&vpsrc=6&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.264126,-72.433604&panoid=XHdAa4vCo3-m7QTuxyHFdg&cbp=12,36.51,,0,1.19

I guess it would be possible to make the NB onramp leave on the same side as US 5 as the NB offramp does to eliminate the weaving, but this is I-91 in Vermont we're talking about - where the traffic levels are not that severe to warrant such a project.


And let's not forget that a very similar ramp configuration was in use for I-84 Exit 26 (CT 70) in CT up until a few years ago when it was converted to a diamond configuration.  The new ramp configurations required a little bit of rock removal, IIRC.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: hobsini2 on October 08, 2011, 11:01:03 AM
Quote from: Brandon on September 25, 2011, 07:33:42 PM
^^ Why not separate the plaza from the interchange and put a basket on the ramps?
My simple answer to this is money. Notice how ISTHA started eliminating people in the booths and made them exact change at O'Hare exits? The expansion of the IPASS express lanes also has taken jobs out of the booth.  While i like the new ORT lanes, just think about how much money the state agency is saving by not having to pay some one to be in the booths.  I believe this was also a hidden reasoning behind not separating the Mainline and Ramps collections.
Title: Re: A VERY unusual interchange
Post by: roadman65 on October 09, 2011, 07:00:42 PM
You also want to consider when the interchange was built, and what funds were available at the time and the traffic demands at the time.  What is considered strange and unusual now, might of not been at the time of construction.