Speed limits at night. When will all of the states repeal night speed limits?
Quote from: ethanman62187 on October 15, 2011, 12:04:53 PM
Speed limits at night. When will all of the states repeal night speed limits?
Seems to me that because of visibility issues, it would be more logical to repeal day speed limits and keep the limits at night. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
When will you realize we can't see the future so we can't answer questions like this?
Night speed limits are a good thing, at least in the west where your odds of hitting a deer at night can be really, really high.
You can drive through rural Wyoming at 75 MPH off the freeway at night in the spring if you want, but you're an idiot if you do.
Quote from: corco on October 15, 2011, 10:52:24 PM
Night speed limits are a good thing, at least in the west where your odds of hitting a deer at night can be really, really high.
You can drive through rural Wyoming at 75 MPH off the freeway at night in the spring if you want, but you're an idiot if you do.
The west? It's about that way in this part of the country here lately.
Several years ago I took a short trip to the Greenbrier Valley area of West Virginia and spent the night at Lewisburg. The next morning, a guy was out working on his bumper from where he had hit a deer on I-64 the night before. He said they were so thick on the road in that area of Virginia nd West Virginia that 35 mph was an unsafe high speed.
Yeah, as a product of the west I sometimes forget that deer populations are insanely high in Appalachia too- probably worse than much of the west!
Quote from: corco on October 15, 2011, 10:52:24 PM
Night speed limits are a good thing, at least in the west where your odds of hitting a deer at night can be really, really high.
You can drive through rural Wyoming at 75 MPH off the freeway at night in the spring if you want, but you're an idiot if you do.
That's what brights are for (used them enough in Indiana and Michigan at 70 mph). If I want to hit a deer, I can do it a half a mile from home at 30 mph going through the Rock Run forest preserve. The West is not the only place with high deer populations.
Want to see deer? Drive the Taconic at night.
High beams do nothing without an alert driver. They also don't give you enough reaction time for seeing one during the night.
TX is phasing out night limits now. I'm not sure how long it will take to change out or remove all the night signs though.
Florida is unlikely to repeal night limits in the area where the Key deer live, as they're an endangered species.
Quote from: Jim on October 15, 2011, 11:07:44 PM
Want to see deer? Drive the Taconic at night.
Or in the day. I've seen quite a few along the more deserted northern portion.
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on October 16, 2011, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: Jim on October 15, 2011, 11:07:44 PM
Want to see deer? Drive the Taconic at night.
Or in the day. I've seen quite a few along the more deserted northern portion.
I saw a bunch on the PIP between the Thruway and Bear Mountain a few years ago. And whole herds grazing along the ACE several years back. And the Thruway just east of Buffalo.
I really dislike nighttime driving on interstates or freeways this time of year because of them.
Quote from: Master son on October 16, 2011, 09:34:31 AM
High beams do nothing without an alert driver. They also don't give you enough reaction time for seeing one during the night.
Depends. If they're on the road, or near the road, I find I have more than enough reaction time. Never even came close to hitting one in all the times I drove I-39, US-8, and Wis-17 up and back from Houghton, MI. Saw plenty with enough time to slow and even stop though. And, yes, some of these times were in the dead of night (2am or so).
I've only hit one and it must have fallen out of the stupid tree and hit every branch on the way down. I successfully swerved twice to avoid it, and twice it stepped back into my path. Luckily by the end I was only doing about 15mph and the car suffered superficial damage only, which was covered by the collision damage waiver (after I put another 2200 miles on the rental!)
QuoteDepends. If they're on the road, or near the road, I find I have more than enough reaction time. Never even came close to hitting one in all the times I drove I-39, US-8, and Wis-17 up and back from Houghton, MI. Saw plenty with enough time to slow and even stop though. And, yes, some of these times were in the dead of night (2am or so).
That works if they're in the road, but if they're to the side of the road and running in, high beams are ineffective. Fog lights can be marginally more useful, but still probably not enough at 70
Quote from: corco on October 16, 2011, 05:41:53 PM
That works if they're in the road, but if they're to the side of the road and running in, high beams are ineffective. Fog lights can be marginally more useful, but still probably not enough at 70
good enough reason for me to do 55-60 at night along forest routes like that.
the closest encounter I've ever had where I had no time to react (barring the previous incident, where I did have time to react, and so did the deer) - was on Utah state route 9, going west towards Zion. I came over a crest and there were two deer in the road, one in each lane. I went between the two of them, clearing them by maybe a total of 10 inches. Glad I was doing 50 there, even though I think the speed limit is 65.
in conclusion, speed limits in rural areas (free of pedestrians and other people likely to be harmed) should be set high, with people using their own common sense to slow down as needed. I see no reason why a rural road like UT-9 should have a speed limit below 90 or so ... and I see no reason to go anywhere near that fast unless conditions permit!
Quote from: corco on October 16, 2011, 05:41:53 PM
QuoteDepends. If they're on the road, or near the road, I find I have more than enough reaction time. Never even came close to hitting one in all the times I drove I-39, US-8, and Wis-17 up and back from Houghton, MI. Saw plenty with enough time to slow and even stop though. And, yes, some of these times were in the dead of night (2am or so).
That works if they're in the road, but if they're to the side of the road and running in, high beams are ineffective. Fog lights can be marginally more useful, but still probably not enough at 70
I find they rarely run at the road at a full gallop. Usually they're browsing/grazing near the road (as it's open ground) and stray across.
Quote from: Brandon on October 16, 2011, 06:52:26 PM
I find they rarely run at the road at a full gallop. Usually they're browsing/grazing near the road (as it's open ground) and stray across.
My wife recently had one come running at her at full gallop, only about a mile and a half from home.
The most unfortunate incident happened to my sister in law. She was driving a new car home from the lot and a deer ran from the roadside into the side of her brand new car.
Quote from: Brandon on October 16, 2011, 06:52:26 PM
Quote from: corco on October 16, 2011, 05:41:53 PM
QuoteDepends. If they're on the road, or near the road, I find I have more than enough reaction time. Never even came close to hitting one in all the times I drove I-39, US-8, and Wis-17 up and back from Houghton, MI. Saw plenty with enough time to slow and even stop though. And, yes, some of these times were in the dead of night (2am or so).
That works if they're in the road, but if they're to the side of the road and running in, high beams are ineffective. Fog lights can be marginally more useful, but still probably not enough at 70
I find they rarely run at the road at a full gallop. Usually they're browsing/grazing near the road (as it's open ground) and stray across.
A very big moose, with full rack of antlers, ran across the road in front of our car late one night on a gravel road northwest of Cochrane, Ontario, as we were headed back to our campsite in Greenwater Provincial Park. The car was a 1982 Accord. If we'd been going just a bit faster, the car would have been demolished, and since the area was so completely middle-of-nowhere it would have been a while before anyone found us. We all very nearly crapped our pants in part for fear that another one might be nearby.
A couple of years ago I was driving my (now-)wife's car on VA-20 northeast of Orange, Virginia, at night on the way back from a UVA football game. I was getting annoyed because the guy in front of us was erratic in his speed, sometimes going faster or slower for no apparent reason, and I was getting ready to pass him when I saw brake lights in the distance. Something made me back off....good thing I did! The brake lights were from a small SUV, a Honda CR-V or similar, that had just struck a deer. The carcass was still spinning in the road. If I'd pulled out to pass, I'd have smashed head-on into the deer carcass and done serious damage to the car.
ethanman62187 seems to think that all that matters is what the number on the speed limit sign is. I heartily disagree and the two experiences described above are the most vivid reasons in my mind why I may choose to go slower even if the speed limit is higher. I've had plenty of other sightings of deer, foxes, etc., but those two will always stay with me as scary moments. (Also, consider that two weeks from today is Halloween. That's a night on which I ALWAYS drive slower in residential areas because little kids will just run out into the road without looking. Regardless of whether they "should" or "shouldn't" do that, I don't want to be the guy who hits a little kid and then has to remember that for the rest of his life.) BTW, ethanman, it's not just nighttime when those sorts of issues may be relevant. If you're driving directly into blinding sun and you don't slow down and you hit someone, a court may find YOU negligent if you try to say the sun was blinding you.
My brother worked in northeastern Pennsylvania during the summer of 1995 and he claims that the area was so overrun with deer that he quickly picked up the local habit of, when you see a deer ahead, turning off your lights, continuing at speed, and laying on the horn. He swears by it. My concern is that this method ought to work if the deer is IN the road, but what if the deer–or another deer you don't see–is NEAR the road? You know how squirrels madly run every which way when a car approaches? What if there's another deer near the road that, when the one in the road runs away, suddenly runs out right in front of you to chase the first deer?
Around here, I tend to drive faster late at night, but this is a consequence of the fact that there's less traffic on the road, so I can go faster simply by virtue of the fact that other drivers will get in my way a lot less. In areas where roads are open during the day (the sort of places you find night limits), this phenomenon is not experienced and you probably should be driving slower at night.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 17, 2011, 06:35:17 PM
Around here, I tend to drive faster late at night, but this is a consequence of the fact that there's less traffic on the road, so I can go faster simply by virtue of the fact that other drivers will get in my way a lot less. In areas where roads are open during the day (the sort of places you find night limits), this phenomenon is not experienced and you probably should be driving slower at night.
this tends to be the case in urban LA as well. I once did a run from Castaic (exit 179 on I-5) to the 5/805 split (about exit 30 or so) with cruise control on 79 the whole way. From 2am to 4am. I could never do that in the day.
(yes, the East LA interchange was a spike-hearted bitch, with its 35mph advisory sweeping curve.)
What states have night speed limits, anyway? I've never seen them in any of the Pacific states, and I don't remember seeing any in Maine or Massachusetts.
Quote from: Quillz on October 20, 2011, 04:06:03 AM
What states have night speed limits, anyway? I've never seen them in any of the Pacific states, and I don't remember seeing any in Maine or Massachusetts.
We tend to lack them in the Midwest as well.
Quote from: Brandon on October 16, 2011, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: Master son on October 16, 2011, 09:34:31 AM
High beams do nothing without an alert driver. They also don't give you enough reaction time for seeing one during the night.
Depends. If they're on the road, or near the road, I find I have more than enough reaction time. Never even came close to hitting one in all the times I drove I-39, US-8, and Wis-17 up and back from Houghton, MI. Saw plenty with enough time to slow and even stop though. And, yes, some of these times were in the dead of night (2am or so).
Mississippi DOT recently issued a press release regarding deer-related driving issues for this time of year (including some statistics regarding certain time periods that tend to have a higher number of collisions with deer):
http://www.gomdot.com/Home/MediaRoom/newsreleases/PressReleaseDetail.aspx?ID=10202011102812
Mississippi had 3,397 deer-vehicle crashes in 2010.
One of most terrifying drives I've had was on Natchez Trace near Port Gibson around midnight during a Thanksgiving holiday. The red eyes seemed like they were everywhere.
Despite living a short distance from a state park full of deer, I have had only one encounter with them.
I am in favor of repealing night limits because of how difficult it can be for a motorist to determine when they apply. My first speeding ticket was in Texas for a violation of the night speed limit on I-40 near Shamrock. The sun had mostly gone down (as I was headed eastbound I don't know by how much) but it was still rather light out.
And see, that's the thing–given that there's not a sharp transition between day and night, where do you draw the line? At the point where the sun is no longer visible? At the point when the bottom edge of the disc is touching the horizon? Civil twilight is useless to the motorist; while a cop might have a almanac listing the exact time for enforcement purposes I don't think we should expect random motorists to have to do that or calculate when the geometric center of the sun reaches 6° below the horizon. And of course the time of sunrise/sunset varies depending on the season, so posting "IN EFFECT FROM 7 PM to 7 AM" or some such is brain-damaged.
I think it's much better to expect the motorist to have the maturity to slow down as appropriate as it gets dark.
I am in favor that Montana should do this too, like Texas.