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Any theories?
What year is it? One possibility could be gains and losses in the House of Representatives.
"Old" is what I've been told- probably 50s to 70s
The insets are for Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Scranton, and Los Angeles
Quote from: corco on November 27, 2011, 09:54:00 PM
"Old" is what I've been told- probably 50s to 70s
The insets are for Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Scranton, and Los Angeles
Scranton?????????
That's why I feel like it has to be a map of something
Yeah, Scranton threw me for a loop there.
It looks like there are also insets for San Francisco, Erie (???), and maybe Boston? Plus somewhere else I can't place on the far right, but it looks like it's on water.
Looks to me to be a fairly standard low-res printed map of the USA where the colors of the states have faded over time. Might there be lines on there representing mainline railroads?
Mike
The lines represent rivers, and if it weren't for the random insets I'd totally agree- you may still be right though.
Actually , I think you're right.
BOOM
http://www.mapagents.com/pages/cleartype.htm
Thanks all- that was less interesting than I though tit was :-/
Quote from: corco on November 28, 2011, 01:06:12 AM
Actually , I think you're right.
BOOM
http://www.mapagents.com/pages/cleartype.htm
Thanks all- that was less interesting than I though tit was :-/
I'm afraid that page doesn't clarify it for me. what is the purpose of the map, and why were those particular cities chosen as insets?
Shows Alaska and Hawaii, so it's post 1959. I think it's an old Nat Geo map.
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on November 30, 2011, 10:31:59 PM
Shows Alaska and Hawaii, so it's post 1959.
Not necessarily. I've seen US maps that show Puerto Rico even though it's not a state.
Quote from: Duke87 on December 01, 2011, 12:04:34 PM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on November 30, 2011, 10:31:59 PM
Shows Alaska and Hawaii, so it's post 1959.
Not necessarily. I've seen US maps that show Puerto Rico even though it's not a state.
indeed. my 1957 Rand McNally wall atlas of the US (the last one with no interstate markers!) shows Alaska and Hawaii. interestingly, for Hawaii, it shows the defense route network of the 1940s, complete with US shields.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on November 28, 2011, 03:00:11 AM
Quote from: corco on November 28, 2011, 01:06:12 AM
Actually , I think you're right.
BOOM
http://www.mapagents.com/pages/cleartype.htm
Thanks all- that was less interesting than I though tit was :-/
I'm afraid that page doesn't clarify it for me. what is the purpose of the map, and why were those particular cities chosen as insets?
Its purpose is to show all towns and cities of a certain size (>5000, for example). So, the insets are only for those areas where it's necessary to zoom in on a closely-packed bunch of municipalities.
A touring production company I've been working for lately has the B/W version of this map on their office wall.
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 01:55:50 AM
A touring production company I've been working for lately has the B/W version of this map on their office wall.
That's a little silly. The assumption seems to be that people from McKeesport won't go to an event in Pittsburgh but people from Staten Island will go to one in the Bronx.
Quote from: NE2 on December 09, 2011, 02:30:49 AM
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 01:55:50 AM
A touring production company I've been working for lately has the B/W version of this map on their office wall.
That's a little silly. The assumption seems to be that people from McKeesport won't go to an event in Pittsburgh but people from Staten Island will go to one in the Bronx.
Why silly? It's not the production company's problem where the audience comes from; that's the local presenter's business. But if we're booked in a venue located in McKeesport (or Schaumburg, IL or Florissant, MO or Arroyo Grande, CA), it's helpful to have a map showing it, rather than just Pittsburgh (or Chicago, or St. Louis, or...well, Arroyo Grande isn't really near anything large :-/).
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 02:15:07 PM
But if we're booked in a venue located in McKeesport (or Schaumburg, IL or Florissant, MO or Arroyo Grande, CA), it's helpful to have a map showing it, rather than just Pittsburgh (or Chicago, or St. Louis, or...well, Arroyo Grande isn't really near anything large :-/).
How is it more useful to show McKeesport than Jamaica, Queens? If you're booked in McKeesport, that's a Pittsburgh-area venue. If you're booked in Jamaica (or Hoboken, or Mount Vernon), that's a NYC-area venue. The actual shape of the city limits matters little.
Quote from: NE2 on December 09, 2011, 03:04:59 PM
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 02:15:07 PM
But if we're booked in a venue located in McKeesport (or Schaumburg, IL or Florissant, MO or Arroyo Grande, CA), it's helpful to have a map showing it, rather than just Pittsburgh (or Chicago, or St. Louis, or...well, Arroyo Grande isn't really near anything large :-/).
How is it more useful to show McKeesport than Jamaica, Queens? If you're booked in McKeesport, that's a Pittsburgh-area venue. If you're booked in Jamaica (or Hoboken, or Mount Vernon), that's a NYC-area venue. The actual shape of the city limits matters little.
Well, if you are booked into McKeesport but not into Jamaica, that would explain why showing McKeesport is more useful than showing Jamaica!
Now, as for showing McKeesport vs. Pittsburgh, which is what I think you're getting at, here are some reasons why you'd want to see it on a map:
-So that when the booking shows up for McKeesport and you've never heard of it (most people don't know the names of all the suburbs of America's large cities), you can look on the map and there it will be. That's, indeed, how you'd learn that it's a Pittsburgh-area venue, should you need to know (like to book a flight).
-So the truck and bus drivers deliver the show to McKeesport and not to Pittsburgh.
-So the company is booked into a hotel reasonably close to the McKeesport venue, instead of out by the airport for example.
-So you can differentiate between different Pittsburgh-area venues, for example if you were playing later on over in Carnegie, or in Pittsburgh proper.
These Pittsburgh-area examples are hypothetical, but here's a real-life case: I've played venues in Schaumburg, IL, Palos Hills, IL, Joliet, IL, and Kenosha, WI, all of which are Chicago-area towns (you might even include Rockford, IL if you're thinking wide-ranging). Now if I'm putting together a touring production and looking at a map in my office, and I see all of those places on the map with pins stuck in each one, I know that I'm planning for four or five different engagements. If all I see is a pin stuck in Chicago (or even five pins), already I know less about what I'm putting together. Yes, I'd eventually figure it out, but the map has been less helpful to me in doing so. That's why it would be useful to buy a map showing all of those town, rather than just the central city.
Another example: I have, on the same gig, played the following cities in southern Florida: Pembroke Pines, Ft. Lauderdale, Deerfield Beach, Delray Beach, West Palm Beach, Palm Beach Gardens, Belle Glade, Boca Raton and Ft. Pierce, all within the same 2 or 3 weeks. All of those are greater Miami-Dade/Broward/Palm Beach-area locales. I cannot imagine trying to plan the logistics of such a tour if the information I was given said only that I was playing in "Miami"!
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 04:34:26 PM
-So that when the booking shows up for McKeesport and you've never heard of it (most people don't know the names of all the suburbs of America's large cities), you can look on the map and there it will be. That's, indeed, how you'd learn that it's a Pittsburgh-area venue, should you need to know (like to book a flight).
What if the suburb you're going to doesn't have 5000+ people, e.g. Lake Buena Vista (Disney World)?
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 04:34:26 PM
-So the truck and bus drivers deliver the show to McKeesport and not to Pittsburgh.
But it's fine if they deliver it to Times Square and not Jamaica?
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 04:34:26 PM
-So the company is booked into a hotel reasonably close to the McKeesport venue, instead of out by the airport for example.
Same response - if you're playing in Jamaica you want to be near there, not on the other side of the city.
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 04:34:26 PM
-So you can differentiate between different Pittsburgh-area venues, for example if you were playing later on over in Carnegie, or in Pittsburgh proper.
But you'd also want to differentiate between different venues within one large city such as NYC.
Quote from: NE2 on December 09, 2011, 02:30:49 AMThat's a little silly. The assumption seems to be that people from McKeesport won't go to an event in Pittsburgh but people from Staten Island will go to one in the Bronx.
I know people who won't drive a couple of miles to Greensburg because driving in it is "too hectic."
McKeesport is a rather bad example to use considering its economic base. With respect to the map, it shouldn't be a surprise it would be on it considering its age. The city was the center of the "steel valley," and much like Scranton being big in coal at the time, McKeesport was a major steel producing center.
Quote from: NE2 on December 09, 2011, 04:50:12 PM
What if the suburb you're going to doesn't have 5000+ people, e.g. Lake Buena Vista (Disney World)?
In that case the map in question wouldn't help.
Quote
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 04:34:26 PM
-So the truck and bus drivers deliver the show to McKeesport and not to Pittsburgh.
But it's fine if they deliver it to Times Square and not Jamaica?
No, that would be bad. However, venues within NYC will tend to be listed under their postal cities, of which Jamaica is one, so you probably wouldn't make that mistake. (Also, since the company is based in NYC, they would be more familiar with the local venues...maybe. :-P
QuoteQuote
-So the company is booked into a hotel reasonably close to the McKeesport venue, instead of out by the airport for example.
Same response - if you're playing in Jamaica you want to be near there, not on the other side of the city.
Right...again, the map we're discussing wouldn't help in that case. And as I say, you'd already know you were playing Jamaica rather than Times Square, just as you know you'd be playing McKeesport rather than Pittsburgh. It's just that in the first case, the map doesn't show you the difference, whereas in the second case it does. Now of course, you're not doing all your planning from that one map!
QuoteQuote
-So you can differentiate between different Pittsburgh-area venues, for example if you were playing later on over in Carnegie, or in Pittsburgh proper.
But you'd also want to differentiate between different venues within one large city such as NYC.
Sure would; that would involve buying another map. But at least the map you've got has already solved the same problem regarding the suburbs of Miami or Chicago!
Quote from: PAHighways on December 09, 2011, 08:32:52 PM
McKeesport is a rather bad example to use considering its economic base. With respect to the map, it shouldn't be a surprise it would be on it considering its age. The city was the center of the "steel valley," and much like Scranton being big in coal at the time, McKeesport was a major steel producing center.
Well, with respect to this map, it's strictly a population threshold that determines whether it would be on the map. Which, I'll admit, would tend to make some rather "undeserving" municipalities appear!
So, what is the map, anyway? No one ever really said...
Quote from: hbelkins on December 09, 2011, 10:50:28 PM
So, what is the map, anyway? No one ever really said...
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 01:55:50 AM
Its purpose is to show all towns and cities of a certain size (>5000, for example). So, the insets are only for those areas where it's necessary to zoom in on a closely-packed bunch of municipalities.
Quote from: NE2 on December 09, 2011, 10:54:36 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 09, 2011, 10:50:28 PM
So, what is the map, anyway? No one ever really said...
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 01:55:50 AM
Its purpose is to show all towns and cities of a certain size (>5000, for example). So, the insets are only for those areas where it's necessary to zoom in on a closely-packed bunch of municipalities.
Then why this?
Quote from: corco on November 27, 2011, 09:54:00 PM
"Old" is what I've been told- probably 50s to 70s
The insets are for Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Scranton, and Los Angeles
There are a lot of cities bigger than Cleveland, Cincy, Pgh and Scranton.
The insets are oddly chosen.
They're chosen because they have a number of separately-incorporated suburbs with that population. Whether that actually matters in the real world is doubtful.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 11, 2011, 08:46:48 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 09, 2011, 10:54:36 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 09, 2011, 10:50:28 PM
So, what is the map, anyway? No one ever really said...
Quote from: empirestate on December 09, 2011, 01:55:50 AM
Its purpose is to show all towns and cities of a certain size (>5000, for example). So, the insets are only for those areas where it's necessary to zoom in on a closely-packed bunch of municipalities.
Then why this?
Quote from: corco on November 27, 2011, 09:54:00 PM
The insets are for Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Scranton, and Los Angeles
There are a lot of cities bigger than Cleveland, Cincy, Pgh and Scranton.
The insets are oddly chosen.
You actually quoted the explanation above..."the insets are only for those areas where it's necessary to zoom in on a closely-packed bunch of municipalities." That is, Cleveland is surrounded by a lot of other cities having a population of 5000 or more (or whatever the threshold is). So, they made an inset to display them at a larger scale. The population of the principal city is irrelevant; only the number of other qualifying cities surrounding it. A city of 50 million people with no other incorporated places near it wouldn't need an inset.
Quote from: NE2 on December 11, 2011, 11:41:30 PM
They're chosen because they have a number of separately-incorporated suburbs with that population. Whether that actually matters in the real world is doubtful.
Well, it's sold at least two maps that we can account for so far. :)
(And sorry I couldn't remove more of that doubt in your mind, but I don't think I can explain any more thoroughly how the information might be useful...but no worry, as we can see this map is a confusing artifact!
My problem is that it's arbitrarily useful. Showing a separately-incorporated suburb of 5000 people is no more useful than showing a suburb of 5000 that has been annexed into the main city or showing two adjacent suburbs of 2500 each.
The map is a tool to gain information, and the parameters within which it displays that information will have to be arbitrary to some extent. If you're looking for overall demographic patterns and population distribution around urban centers, then yes, a map that imposes municipal borders on that information might obscure what you're looking for. Therefore, you probably wouldn't have bought the map we're talking about.
But I've described a different use, where a number of cities are disseminated by their municipal names (well, more often by their postal city names, but that's a different kettle of fish). If I want to mark them all on a map, I'll have better luck if the map shows place names that might correspond to the list I've been given. I don't care about their population per se, but the mapmaker has chosen that parameter to determine what information to include, and that choice will tend to line up pretty well (though not exactly) with the list in my hand. Obviously it would line up even better if the mapmaker published a map of all of the venues in the country that I might end up in, but that's a pretty narrow niche of interest. (A ZIP code map would also be useful, but I'd have to take the extra step of translating ZIP codes into city names.)
And of course, there are plenty of other applications for a map based on municipalities. I can see it hanging handsomely on a wall at the U. S. Conference of Mayors' office. :)
So, in short, don't make too much of the population threshold...that decides what goes onto the map, because something has to decide, but how you use the information may have nothing to do with population.
Hope that clears it up a little more!
Quote from: hbelkins on December 11, 2011, 08:46:48 PM
Quote from: corco on November 27, 2011, 09:54:00 PM
"Old" is what I've been told- probably 50s to 70s
The insets are for Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Scranton, and Los Angeles
There are a lot of cities bigger than Cleveland, Cincy, Pgh and Scranton.
The insets are oddly chosen.
The City of Pittsburgh's population was in the 500,000-600,000 range depending on when this map was printed.