The interstate highway system uses a number designation for two interstates that we all know will never connect. Shouldn't they use other number designations instead of repeating them? (Such as I-86 in Idaho and plans for I-44 in NC)
there's a plan for I-44 in NC?
Wouldn't surprise me. Maybe he's thinking of North Carolina 44, which will eventually be US 70, not I-44.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 22, 2011, 11:03:21 AM
there's a plan for I-44 in NC?
http://www.letsgetmoving.org/priorities/i44/
(from this thread - https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5782.0 )
Quote from: TheStranger on December 22, 2011, 11:14:18 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 22, 2011, 11:03:21 AM
there's a plan for I-44 in NC?
http://www.letsgetmoving.org/priorities/i44/
(from this thread - https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5782.0 )
Where I got this plan from
any comments on I-44 go to that thread
keep on topic here...
The general rationale behind duplicate I numbers (I-76 in CO/NE and OH/PA/NJ, I-84 in OR/ID/UT and PA/NY/CT/MA, I-86 in Idaho and NY/PA, I-88 in IL and NY) is to keep from breaking "the grid" more than it is now. All even I-xx numbers between 64 and 96 are used. So to renumber one of those duplicate interstate numbers you'd either have to make it a 3di or use a 2d number that is way out of the grid.
And, no I haven't forgotten about I-69 or I-74. Both have plans to join the pieces though it's much more likely that I-69 will be one interstate than I-74.
Of course, we also still have those two copies of I-95!
Quote from: Roadmaestro95 on December 22, 2011, 01:43:19 PM
any comments on I-44 go to that thread
keep on topic here...
you're right. I'm sorry. I will only discuss I-366 here.
Yeah, the I-74 extension is really the oddest of all of them, especially since it not only exists in the same state as a US route with the same number (the reason there isn't an I-50 or I-60), but multiplexes with it!
They probably should have planned for it with the grid. Personially I prefer the numbers be a little off (as long as its reasonable) to duplicates. So renumbering the duplicates is in (especially since many of the duplicates shouldn't be 2dis in the first place), but I-74 in NC and I-3 in GA are out.
I-86 begins in Erie County near North East PA and continues through the southern New York and ends is eastern NY. I can't see them doing this it is very illogical
Renumber I-82 as an odd 2di number
Put I-82 on current I-84 in the east
Renumber ID I-86 as a 3di
Renumber one of the I-88's as I-92.
Mapmikey
Maybe suffixes should just be reintroduced. I personally never saw what the big deal was with having I-80 and I-80N. I don't think it's really all that confusing.
I personally have no problem with duplexes of a single number when there is a great distance between them or they both have an endpoint on the same road. No one is going to confuse I-76 in Denver with the one in Philly unless they are a dope.
Considering how many dopes have drivers licenses these days...
that would be extraordinarily dopey. the last time I ran into that mistake was when I tried my damnedest to find out how I-495 on Long Island connected to I-495 in Massachusetts.
I was six years old.
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 22, 2011, 03:49:21 PM
Renumber I-82 as an odd 2di number
Put I-82 on current I-84 in the east
Renumber ID I-86 as a 3di
Renumber one of the I-88's as I-92.
Mapmikey
Actually I'd make i-82 an odd interstate because if you look at it...it really looks more south to north than east to west. I agree making I-84 in the east I-82 and ridding I-86 in the west completely. However, how can I-88 be made I-92 if it is south of I-90?
Perhaps this a dumb question...but is Interstate 98 in use anywhere?
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 23, 2011, 12:45:46 PM
Perhaps this a dumb question...but is Interstate 98 in use anywhere?
it is not, and I doubt the western US-2 corridor needs the upgrade.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 23, 2011, 12:50:17 PM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 23, 2011, 12:45:46 PM
Perhaps this a dumb question...but is Interstate 98 in use anywhere?
it is not, and I doubt the western US-2 corridor needs the upgrade.
In the eastern US, some New York communities are actively promoting the notion of a Watertown to Plattsburgh intrastate I-98 (I assume they envision interchanges with I-81 and I-87):
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20111221/NEWS05/712219939/0/FRONTPAGE
"The St. Lawrence County Industrial Development Agency agreed Tuesday to transfer $8,511 for Interstate 98 to the Business Development Corporation for a Greater Massena, removing itself from the reimbursement process.
The BDC will become a temporary conduit for municipal and agency contributions made on behalf of the Northern Corridor Transportation Group, which has spearheaded promotion in recent years of the proposed Watertown-to-Plattsburgh interstate." ...
Quote from: Grzrd on December 23, 2011, 01:27:55 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 23, 2011, 12:50:17 PM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 23, 2011, 12:45:46 PM
Perhaps this a dumb question...but is Interstate 98 in use anywhere?
it is not, and I doubt the western US-2 corridor needs the upgrade.
In the eastern US, some New York communities are actively promoting the notion of a Watertown to Plattsburgh intrastate I-98 (I assume they envision interchanges with I-81 and I-87):
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20111221/NEWS05/712219939/0/FRONTPAGE
"The St. Lawrence County Industrial Development Agency agreed Tuesday to transfer $8,511 for Interstate 98 to the Business Development Corporation for a Greater Massena, removing itself from the reimbursement process.
The BDC will become a temporary conduit for municipal and agency contributions made on behalf of the Northern Corridor Transportation Group, which has spearheaded promotion in recent years of the proposed Watertown-to-Plattsburgh interstate." ...
I'd love to see US-11 turn into an interstate. It would be better and faster than staying along the Saint Lawrence.
that might be better suited as I-887. (I think it's a "loop" because it connects two interstates, even though it does not touch the same route at two points.)
Quote from: surferdude on December 22, 2011, 03:46:44 PM
I-86 begins in Erie County near North East PA and continues through the southern New York and ends is eastern NY. I can't see them doing this it is very illogical
I said "many", not "all". The western I-86 has no business as a 2di; I'd move I-82 onto the western I-84 and renumber I-82 either as I-7 or a 3di. Both I-88s are similar in length to I-476.
Theoretically I-98 could be I-81 (it does follow US 11 after all). IMO it's more likely that it will start on I-781 rather than I-81 itself. There are a few other corridors it could connect to to make a longer interstate as well on the US 2 corridor. Plus the number
isn't in use.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Interstate_Highway_plan_August_14,_1957.jpg
Maybe I'd like to see this happen like it did way back when...
Quote from: Roadmaestro95 on December 23, 2011, 10:50:00 AM
Actually I'd make i-82 an odd interstate because if you look at it...it really looks more south to north than east to west. I agree making I-84 in the east I-82 and ridding I-86 in the west completely. However, how can I-88 be made I-92 if it is south of I-90?
If it is the eastern 88 to be renumbered as 92, think of it as a diagonal interstate like I-24 or I-26 that don't match the grid exactly as-is. This would have the added benefit of keeping I-88 in Illinois which could be used on US 20 across Iowa if anyone ever wanted to do that and it would still fit the grid.
The western I-88 could be eliminated by I-92 and gridded correctly if you did the real-world unnecessary step of making I-88 part of I-90 which would then have to use I-380, upgraded IA 27 and I-35 to get back to present I-90. Then renumber I-90 through SE Minn, Wisc, and NW Ill as I-92
I actually don't think many people outside the roadgeek community think about the grid to this extent...
Mapmikey
Quote from: Roadmaestro95 on December 23, 2011, 10:50:00 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 22, 2011, 03:49:21 PM
Renumber I-82 as an odd 2di number
Put I-82 on current I-84 in the east
Renumber ID I-86 as a 3di
Renumber one of the I-88's as I-92.
Mapmikey
Actually I'd make i-82 an odd interstate because if you look at it...it really looks more south to north than east to west. I agree making I-84 in the east I-82 and ridding I-86 in the west completely. However, how can I-88 be made I-92 if it is south of I-90?
I have been thinking the same thing myself! Unless there was a plan to make a completely toll-free interstate alternative to the Massachusetts Turnpike, I really don't see this happening ever. Plus, I like the duplicate numbers where they are now.
And BTW, seeing that none of these proposals will become reality, shouldn't this be moved to the Fictional Highways section?
Quote from: Roadmaestro95 on December 23, 2011, 01:39:01 PM
Maybe I'd like to see this happen like it did way back when...
They should've stuck with the plan, and not allowed politics to mess it up. The idea that western I-80N/I-84 should've been I-82 was a great one, and I agree the current I-82 should be an odd interstate (but not a 3di). The I-82N designation for former I-15W/current I-86 would've worked fine, although I would've just designated the southern branch as I-82 (not I-82S).
I've also suggested in the past that they could've just made the Utah-to-Portland interstate I-80, and given the Utah-to-San Francisco freeway a number in the 50's or 60's that didn't duplicate a US Route in those 3 states.
But we're stuck with the current numbering, and the duplicate numbers don't really bother me that much. It certainly isn't enough of a problem to be worth the cost of widespread renumbering to eliminate.
Quote from: Quillz on December 23, 2011, 05:35:05 AM
Maybe suffixes should just be reintroduced. I personally never saw what the big deal was with having I-80 and I-80N. I don't think it's really all that confusing.
Say it out loud. I-80 North? So you go north on I-80? No, go west on I-80 North. Well, do you want me to go west or north??
You can try to get around it and call it I-80 "N" (pronouncing the N as "N") but this is far from universal.
I had to direct some Kansans through DFW once and even with a simplified hand-drawn map showing only the roads of interest and detailed turn by turn directions they still got lost because of I-35W.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 23, 2011, 07:13:04 PM
Quote from: Quillz on December 23, 2011, 05:35:05 AM
Maybe suffixes should just be reintroduced. I personally never saw what the big deal was with having I-80 and I-80N. I don't think it's really all that confusing.
I had to direct some Kansans through DFW once and even with a simplified hand-drawn map showing only the roads of interest and detailed turn by turn directions they still got lost because of I-35W.
Let me ask you this. Do you call it 35 "W" ot 35 West? Everytime i have been to DFW or MSP i have always refered to it as 35 "W". So calling it 80 "N" doesnt seem foreign at all to me.
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 23, 2011, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 23, 2011, 07:13:04 PM
Quote from: Quillz on December 23, 2011, 05:35:05 AM
Maybe suffixes should just be reintroduced. I personally never saw what the big deal was with having I-80 and I-80N. I don't think it's really all that confusing.
I had to direct some Kansans through DFW once and even with a simplified hand-drawn map showing only the roads of interest and detailed turn by turn directions they still got lost because of I-35W.
Let me ask you this. Do you call it 35 "W" ot 35 West? Everytime i have been to DFW or MSP i have always refered to it as 35 "W". So calling it 80 "N" doesnt seem foreign at all to me.
I don't know about out there, but when I lived in the D.C. area in the era of I-70S, people verbally referred to it as "seventy" "S".
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 23, 2011, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 23, 2011, 07:13:04 PM
Quote from: Quillz on December 23, 2011, 05:35:05 AM
Maybe suffixes should just be reintroduced. I personally never saw what the big deal was with having I-80 and I-80N. I don't think it's really all that confusing.
I had to direct some Kansans through DFW once and even with a simplified hand-drawn map showing only the roads of interest and detailed turn by turn directions they still got lost because of I-35W.
Let me ask you this. Do you call it 35 "W" ot 35 West? Everytime i have been to DFW or MSP i have always refered to it as 35 "W". So calling it 80 "N" doesnt seem foreign at all to me.
I didn't call it anything, I just wrote "(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F1%2F1f%2FI-35W.svg%2F25px-I-35W.svg.png&hash=6135f4137860285e84964fd64e00d1eb19b672c3) south" on the paper (yes, including the shield) and figured it would be obvious. Apparently, not being familiar with the suffixed interstate situation in DFW, they interpreted the W as meaning "west" and then got themselves confused looking for "I-35 West" or something. I don't really know their thought process, as I was not along for the trip and only heard about it as they were on the way back.
If you're going to do suffixes I would say it's far preferable to use A, B, C... since those are unambiguously just arbitrary letter suffixes. (Except in Arkansas, where US-70A is US-70 Alternate and US-70B is US-70 Business... :banghead:)
Using A for Alternate is common in many states.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 23, 2011, 11:12:15 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 23, 2011, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 23, 2011, 07:13:04 PM
Quote from: Quillz on December 23, 2011, 05:35:05 AM
Maybe suffixes should just be reintroduced. I personally never saw what the big deal was with having I-80 and I-80N. I don't think it's really all that confusing.
I had to direct some Kansans through DFW once and even with a simplified hand-drawn map showing only the roads of interest and detailed turn by turn directions they still got lost because of I-35W.
Let me ask you this. Do you call it 35 "W" ot 35 West? Everytime i have been to DFW or MSP i have always refered to it as 35 "W". So calling it 80 "N" doesnt seem foreign at all to me.
I didn't call it anything, I just wrote "(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F1%2F1f%2FI-35W.svg%2F25px-I-35W.svg.png&hash=6135f4137860285e84964fd64e00d1eb19b672c3) south" on the paper (yes, including the shield) and figured it would be obvious. Apparently, not being familiar with the suffixed interstate situation in DFW, they interpreted the W as meaning "west" and then got themselves confused looking for "I-35 West" or something. I don't really know their thought process, as I was not along for the trip and only heard about it as they were on the way back.
If you're going to do suffixes I would say it's far preferable to use A, B, C... since those are unambiguously just arbitrary letter suffixes. (Except in Arkansas, where US-70A is US-70 Alternate and US-70B is US-70 Business... :banghead:)
There are no alternate routes in Arkansas. There are "S" spur routes, however. And AR 58E (there is no 58W.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 23, 2011, 11:12:15 PM
Apparently, not being familiar with the suffixed interstate situation in DFW, they interpreted the W as meaning "west" and then got themselves confused looking for "I-35 West" or something. I don't really know their thought process, as I was not along for the trip and only heard about it as they were on the way back.
Well, DFW and MSP are the only remaining examples of suffixed interstates, and there aren't exactly all that many US highway examples left either. If it were more common people would be more familiar with it and wouldn't be confused by it.
QuoteIf you're going to do suffixes I would say it's far preferable to use A, B, C... since those are unambiguously just arbitrary letter suffixes.
This I agree with.
Quote from: agentsteel53 link=topic=5824.msg127416
you're right. I'm sorry. I will only discuss I-366 here.
You're going to marry I-366 one day, ain't you?
Wasn't the western I-86, historically, a 3-di? I thought it was I-215 or something to that effect. No harm in in going back to that, IMO.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on December 29, 2011, 09:51:55 AM
Wasn't the western I-86, historically, a 3-di? I thought it was I-215 or something to that effect. No harm in in going back to that, IMO.
Nope, it was I-15W originally.
QuoteNope, it was I-15W originally.
That's right. Thanks!
I think 86 is wasted on that short freeway in Idaho, where it could easily be a 3-di of either I-15 or I-84.
And I agree with the posts that I-84 would be better as I-82, and I-82 should be an odd N/S route, maybe I-11? 13?
Most likely I-9 or I-11 because it is just a bit east of CA-99 (possible I-7 or I-9) longitudinally. Would be better suited as CA-99 as I-9 and I-82 as I-11. Also I-86 in ID would be better off as an aux for I-84 than I-15 (it looks like it branches right of 84)
Yep. I-86 (W) should be either I-284, or I-384 (I-282 or I-382 if I-84 is redesignated I-82)
Quote from: national highway 1 on December 29, 2011, 08:27:33 PM
Yep. I-86 (W) should be either I-284, or I-384 (I-282 or I-382 if I-84 is redesignated I-82)
I-84 in the east would become I-82 and I-84 would remain the same in the west.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 23, 2011, 07:13:04 PM
Say it out loud. I-80 North? So you go north on I-80? No, go west on I-80 North. Well, do you want me to go west or north??
You can try to get around it and call it I-80 "N" (pronouncing the N as "N") but this is far from universal.
I found myself thinking about this today, how people pronounced the suffixed routes. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that, while it was around, the locals pronounced I-80N as "Eighty-North." However, as long as I can remember the suffixed routes of 99 here in Oregon have been pronounced "Ninety-Nine-EE" and "Ninety-Nine-Double-You." Not sure why there was that inconsistency in pronunciation.
Quote from: xonhulu on January 01, 2012, 06:21:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 23, 2011, 07:13:04 PM
Say it out loud. I-80 North? So you go north on I-80? No, go west on I-80 North. Well, do you want me to go west or north??
You can try to get around it and call it I-80 "N" (pronouncing the N as "N") but this is far from universal.
I found myself thinking about this today, how people pronounced the suffixed routes. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that, while it was around, the locals pronounced I-80N as "Eighty-North." However, as long as I can remember the suffixed routes of 99 here in Oregon have been pronounced "Ninety-Nine-EE" and "Ninety-Nine-Double-You." Not sure why there was that inconsistency in pronunciation.
I guess it would have worked better if they would say "Ninety-Nine-UU" instead.
(only works in print)
Quote from: Roadmaestro95 on December 30, 2011, 11:15:12 AM
Quote from: national highway 1 on December 29, 2011, 08:27:33 PM
Yep. I-86 (W) should be either I-284, or I-384 (I-282 or I-382 if I-84 is redesignated I-82)
I-84 in the east would become I-82 and I-84 would remain the same in the west.
In a perfect world, I-80 would have gone to Portland (following US-30), and the route from Salt Lake to San Francisco should be I-60, but I digress.